testing site. you can see them here. flipping over the tables and chairs. and then the tenth. and then the crowd boos, and chance. now, at one level, this is just people acting poorly. i'm not sure how much thought went into these actions. but, i've watched this a lot, and when i saw it yesterday it struck me that this moment does actually capture something, much, much much deeper than just the actions of these yahoo. even if you bend over backwards, to try to concede the most -- vaccine skepticism, and there is some, what on earth does that have to do with testing for the virus? right? testing for covid is well established. it's safe and effective. it's just a swab in your nose. it's not a shot in your arm. it's not some new thing that someone's making you get. in fact, if you test often enough, you can even keep people relatively safe, without the vaccine. that's why the biden administration has given employees a kind of eta or choice. so why knock over the testing display? the answer is the rate you see on display, here is directional. that rage, the emotional core of that has fed this fire from the beginning. it's been directed all sorts of targets. right now it just happens to be the vaccines in the maxing mandates. when you're knocking over the covid testing tense, what you're saying is, stop talking about covid. stop reminding us this thing is real and dangerous and we have to do something about it i don't want to hear it, shut up, shut up, shut up. and that's been the through line for so much of the messaging and disinformation coming particularly from the right ring. remember, this was donald trump 's original sin on covid. it's gonna go away. like that, a miracle. told people don't worry about. it don't let it dominate your life. and so this, the metaphorical knocking over the covid testing tenth, as been the response to every new measure, to fight the virus. whatever it is. whether it's masking, or social distancing, or vaccines, are shutting down bars. and nightclubs, shut up. stop telling us what to do. stop making us deal with the reality of this once in a century pandemic, that is now killed more people than all american wars combined. other than the civil war. the views, of the folks showing up at these protests. are not that different from the people positions of power, in the folks feeding them all. this are spewing and spreading the rage in the first place. here's one example. republican senator ron johnson, of wisconsin. who's really i say carved out a niche for himself, is the most vaccinated resisting senator. congrats on that. senator johnson has been thumping on about supposed miracle, cares first with the malaria drug, sidewalks accord in, he's become the parasite, drunk ivermectin guy. i'm open to the data and things could change, but the data we have, now show that neither of those drugs are effective in treating covid. it's just with the data says. but this desire for those to be miracle cures. and the experts to be wrong. all emanates from this deep emotional rage, against the experts, against the people trying to tell us what to do. last night in an interview with a vaccine public enemy number, one tucker collinson, senator ron johnson went so far as to spread a lie about the approval status of one of the vaccines. >> these mandates are driven by the bait and switch of the fda, that we now have a approve vaccine. we do not have an approved vaccine in america. they did it -- i guess in europe, but the pfizer vaccine available in the u.s., is not fda approved. it's got emergency use authorization. >> absolutely not true. like you're probably watching that at home thinking, no i don't think that's true. i'm pretty sure i've heard about the actual authorization. 100% wrong. the pfizer vaccine, received full fda approval back in august of this year. it was a big deal. it was the front page of the newspapers. they covered and all the news. it's proof, individual 16 agent. over it's now being marketed, under the name, community. which is not the name i would've chosen, but that's not my job to choose those names. so i honestly, i watch this a few, times i don't know for sure, if ron johnson is just confused an adult that can't quite get there with the new name of the drug. or if he's just lying. but tucker carlson, who works in news. doesn't seem to care one way or the other. and, listen to me, do not underestimate how many lives are being pumped into people watching these shows. media matters on the. numbers they shared new stutter with us it was published tonight. that shows that fox news pushed a claim undermining vaccines during 99% of the days in the past six months. 99% of the days, in the past six months. so this is what it looks like, when someone like another senator, republican senator lindsey graham of south carolina, who to his credit is vaccinated, has publicly supported vaccines, tries to gently suggest, that people think about getting the shot. >> you should think about getting it. , i'd until you to get it. just said think about it. i'm glad i got it. 92% of the people in the hospitals in south carolina, are unvaccinated. >> not true. >> not true. no. they said to senator graham messages quoted statistics about hospitalisation in his own state. where do you think they got the idea that it's a lie? that the visits majority of the people in the hospital are unvaccinated. in the hospitals are strained. well, came straight from the source. >> of course, we now know, that when they say the hospitals are being overwhelmed, it's almost always ally. with the exception of a few big city hospitals in the u.s.. our hospital system was stretched for sure, but it was never overwhelmed. and with the delta variant, any hospitals that were stretched, usually found themselves in that situation, due to staffing shortages, created by their stupor vaccine mandates. >> that's not true. i mean i guess if you interpret what's the difference between stretched and overwhelmed, as you could bend over backwards to try to make sense of. it but that's from exactly a week ago. tom, what makes all of this so deeply cynical, aggressively cynical, is that while rupert murdoch's fox news, is the source of so much of this. they have been running one of the most destructive disinformation campaigns i've ever seen. rupert murdoch himself, was among the first in line to get the vaccine, back in the uk, back in december of last year. strongly encourage people around the world to get it. not only, that fox news also has a vaccine mandate, stronger than the one proposed by president joe biden. they are requiring, any unvaccinated employees to be tested every day. and of, course while many of their on air, host a railing against covid restrictions, they were broadcasting their shows from the safety of their own homes. in, fact here's an amazing look at behind the curtain, fox news recently aired this footage. showing off their newly renovated, washington d.c. muriel. looking pretty good there have to say. what on earth is on their faces? what is going on? oh right, yes, they're wearing masks. and they are also all vaccinated. or getting tested daily. because that is the corporate requirement. so, inside fox news, everyone takes this seriously. they're in on the joke i guess? they understand the science is quite solid. they understand the methods preventing infection, severe, illness hospitalization, death. the methods for maintaining a safe workplace. they are all pretty clear. then they go on air, they undermine that exact message. tucker carlson's even launched a personal campaign against the horrible tyrannical players out, there who require their employees to get vaccinated. he's been giving sympathetic interviews, to people who have taken to my mind rather extreme step, of quitting their job, rather than getting vaccinated. >> this man is one of the victims of this leader purge. she's an icu nurse, or just left her job at a hospital in indiana, because a vaccine mandates. she joins us tonight. thanks so much for coming on. >> thank. you >> tell us why, it's our honor to have you. tell us why you left her job. >> i left my job, when policies were being ruled out at our hospital, that would ultimately initiate the segregation of its staff. on who is vaccinated versus who is unvaccinated. >> tucker, buddy, i got news for you. the call is coming from inside the house. your own bosses are doing this. and i gotta ask, why don't you have the courage, of your convictions? the very lowest level of that courage. which would be on the, show to simply say use the platform to actually criticize your own bosses, or making this requirement. you could go on air and say my bosses are doing. this and i don't agree with. but that would require, the tiniest little sliver of moral integrity. you have to take some little slight risk to your bottom line, in your paycheck, in your stature. you're probably not going to do that. you certainly wouldn't do the thing you've celebrated in others. which is to just quits and walk away. rather than be subject to this tyranny. although i'm sure, there will be lots of youtubers who would be happy to host you for your exit interview, if you found the courage to choose to do so. michael steele is a former chairman of the republican national committee, angela is the president and ceo matters for americans. they both join me now. angela, let me start with you. you have been tracking. this i think people under appreciate, how insidious this campaign is. been in how relentless it has been. it's been particularly focused on prime time. it's been day in india and is very cute seaway, of well were not telling you not to get the vaccine. describe, characterize, with the coverage is been like. >> so i would, say there's three. things one consistency. so of the last hundred and 83, days six, months only two of those days, there was not a consistent effort across the channel, to undermine or encourage people not to get vaccinated. that's the first. part the second part, is dire warnings. so you're going to be forced to take psychotropic drugs, if you take the vaccine. that will be the next thing. or the vaccine is a secret plot by joe biden, and the liberals in the media to actual purge christians. it's really wild and fantastic, slippery slope arguments. and the third aspect is alternatives. if you're still kind of thinking about the vaccine, as you're scared of covid, any think it's, really you know someone that's died at this point from covid. they give you all kinds of alternatives. that can cure you. vaping, tamiflu, and by addicts. i'm not joking. these are all the things that fox news, while they're downplaying the vaccine, is proposing as alternatives, as to why you should be scared about covid at all. >> michael, you know there's been these rafts of stories, there's been several conservative talk radio hosts, who have railed against the vaccine, they have not been vaccinated, some of whom have gotten very sick, a few of them a fast away. they're very upsetting stories. in the very sad stories. what they show, is that these individuals believed with they were saying. right, they were on air saying i don't believe in the vaccine and i don't think you should either, and they don't get themselves vaccinated, and ultimately they paid horrible price for that. that's not what's happening at fox. they know. this is not, that is not the story over at fox news. >> now, because i want to get that paycheck next month. i got bills to pay. i gotta get vaccinated. look, first off let me just say, you should just bottle the opening of the show, and just pin it folks. because you have laid out, and indictment, that is so direct and so compelling. as to why we are where we are. and why we continue to be where we are. in the reality of it is. when you start the lie, going back to february march of 2020. this is, okay it's no big deal. and you get everybody to buy into that. what do you do a year and a half later, after 700,000 are dead. and you have to keep the perpetuation of the lie. that's ron johnson. he even got anything else to say, carve out the niche be because that's the only hole you can be in. you cannot come out of, that because then you suffer the wrath, they would rather, suffer the wrath of people like you and me and others who are using common sense in science to apply to this situation, than to, be on the wrong side as we saw lindsey was in that clip. of the frankenstein monster that they created. on covid, and that's the new reality, not just inside the gop, but across the country, and so many other forms at this point. which is what the facebook discussion is about right now. there's a lot. here >> you are right, though that key point, that the original sin is the original denial, and they never getting out from underneath, that except for about a two-week period, where trump got a little spooked, and he came out and said, he looked at those charts. but the original, sin in the only thing that kind of keeps grinding this along, as an intellectual project if you can call it that angelo, is it's just not that big deal, they're lying to you about a big deal it is. and everything gets verse and jeanine around that. even to the point, where when i'm so struck by, is they could just not talk about it. right, they could just not leave it be. they don't have to go undermined, if they don't want to be out there saying look, it's. they don't do that. and i think it's because a it rates. and be because they'd have to keep this going. >> that's right and i think that that's the part that's the key piece here. it's actually demonstrate the intentionality, the deliberateness of this. and why it goes all the way to the top, this is beyond just a couple segments now, this can only continue at the scale that it is, if the highest levels of fox news which would be murdoch -- i've made him omar giving consent and if not more than that. the more broad thing is that it does tie into the broad right -- why should you fight against the aca, the legislations, it's always something you have to step back. somebody is trying to control you. and that's what that's his boil down to. you have tie this into a bitter broader rhetoric narrative, and then pump it with all sorts of misinformation and a lot of it's about getting power. >> the final point here, michael, i like talking about this because you both have i had our formation in the catholic church and i think it's stuck with both of us, even though i'm no longer attending church, but to me it's just like it's just straight-up evil to do this. i don't have other words for it. it's it justice. it's wrong it's in full. you know what you're doing, and you're doing it for four independent indefensible as reasons at, the cost of peoples lives. and that's just a plain moral truth of what's happening every day, and i continue east and continually stand ally east by the sheer evil of it. every day. >> when you turn the gospel, and the teachings of christ on its head, when he says care for the least of these care for the vulnerable, care for those who are in need of help and instead you provide them with the very information that leads to their deaths. then you have a moral problem. and that's the other part of this that's so disturbing for someone like myself, when you look someone in the eye and say, at the end of the day you may not want it for yourself but think of all the other people around you, including your parents, your grandparents, your children, who can become sick and die from this. and to reject that because you think there are some vast conspiracy to keep your kids from catching what? a virus that will kill them? you have a problem with that? that's the underlying moral story for me, that is probably more disturbing than anything else. because, if this is the beginning, the tip of the spear of that chris, what's next? the next big thing that hits us, that in pales us the way that this has, when we do? >> michael steele, san angelo cortisone, thank you vote, really appreciate it. today, we first heard we heard firsthand at how facebook is going to go, they profit off of you or your loved ones. the company poses a threat to children, our safety, and our very democracy and a very in a rare moment of bipartisanship, congress is prepared to take some action. but what exactly does that mean? how to solve a problem like facebook, after this. lik facebook, after this well, would ya look at that! it was an accident. i was— speaking of accidents, we accidentally left you off the insurance policy during enrollment, and you're not covered. not even a little bit? mm-mmm. no insurance. no. when employees can't enter and manage their own benefits enrollment information, it can be a real pain. not even— nope! with paycom, employees enter and manage their own hr data in a single, easy-to-use software. visit 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business internet customers with no line-activation fees or term contract required. see if you can save by switching today. comcast business. the same people who say powering possibilities. vaccines or suspects are all in. all of the suspects -- are true of this treatment, and yet some a big deal because it's not the vaccine and probably because donald trump used it, because it means that summit strapped like level covid is treatable, so not that big of a deal. the model -- during my time at facebook, i came to realize the devastating truth. almost no one outside of facebook knows what happens inside a facebook. companies intentionally hides file information from the public, from the u.s. government, and from the governments around the world. the documents i've provided to congress prove that facebook has repeatedly misled the public about what its own research reveals, about the safety of children, the efficacy of artificial intelligence systems, as well as it's spreading divisive and extreme messages. i came forward because i believe that every human being deserves the dignity of the truth. >> today, lawmakers and the american public heard from the facebook whistle blower, francis haugen. the hearing before the senate congress subcommittee on communications and it was an unusually bipartisan display as haugen to strive to senators the urgent threat she feels facebook poses to democracy and human rights, to children growing up in an instagram filter world. she made special note of just why the company's obsession with growth hinders and a meaningful change in the platform. >> facebook understands that if they want to continue to grow, they have to find new users, they have to make sure that the next generation is just as engaged with instagram as a current one. we and the way they do that is by making sure that children establish habits before they have good self regulation. >> by hooking? kids >> by hooking kids. >> -- but peaking are out on the inside of this industry. -- harris join google after his own's to start-up was acquired by them, gmail product manager that is designed -- product philosopher. his job was to study the way screen applications in black the with the users of their product. -- i overall aptitude, health. in 2013, the internal -- on the ethical role responsibility of tech companies. that presentation started dialogue, it wasn't enough. in 2016, he decided to leave google and pursue change in how we direct interact with technology, eventually cofounding the center for humane technology. it appeared in the netflix documentary social dilemma. in what he expressed is now dangerous uncheck social media can be. >> it's not enough that you lose the product consciously, i want to dig deeper into the brain stem and discover and unconscious have it. so that you are being programed at a deeper level, you don't even realize it. >> and tristan harris joins me now. great to have you here, i know this is something you've been thinking about basically full-time for very long time. how significant do you think how against revelation and testimony were today? >> being honest with you, i was so moved to almost emotionally, i've been working on this for eight years, and what she said at the beginning of her hearing, which is that this is something everyone needs to know. when she was looking at the inside information system -- she saying genocide, she saying misinformation, body more patient issues. i should be the only one who knows this. and facebook has this research and it's bad and they're not making choices, they know that when they optimize for engagement they know they optimize for what makes us more certain of the world, more out groups, the other tribe, and makes us more angry. they know that it actually makes political parties more divisive. that they chose to continue the optimization for profit over safety. i just so relate to what she say about this is what the whole world needs to know. -- some of us need to be accountable, -- is trying to raise public awareness but the unique thing today, is you saw, i think it was senator jenner running and blumenthal said we don't have differences on this. we're gonna do something about it. we're gonna work together. and that's what makes this a transformative moment, i have not seen something like this happen in the eight years i've worked on this topic. >> okay so, there's a few things here, whenever i see this there's always some -- what's new and what's not. if you read about the rwanda genocide, radio will wanda was radio was used quite exclusively as a tool to promote genocide. when i was growing up, we looked at women and grow and girls fashion magazines, hold horribly distorted images that were driving body this more fierce. a lot of these critiques i've heard before another contexts, there are something different happening with facebook and social media. describe to me what it is, could she sort of focus on the algorithm and why that's different than other forms of media that can do real really agree just and gnarly stuff. >> correct, it's really important that people think there's a moral panic, obviously, this society was polarized even before social media came to us. -- what's different, is when you have a supercomputer. so facebook is a trillion dollar company, they have one of the largest supercomputers in the world. when you scroll facebook and you think you just hang with your friends are doing, every time you scroll you imagine you activated super control computer, that has seen two billion people interact with today. and it knows that if you are someone who clicked on an article saying the vaccine is unsafe, it says warrior just like these other bucket of users and this video over here that made fun of this many errors in the vaccine data, that really worked really well for them. so we're micro-targeting the thing that will make people most cynical, and most hateful of their country. we've got a trillion dollar supercomputer that every time people scroll, puts at the center of attention the next faultline in society. it's a position guided weapon -- if the key is, it's not that it just makes us polarized, it's that when a drive us to more extreme positions, what they found with their own research is that political parties in europe said no facebook you change your algorithm. and facebook said, people tell us that all the time. and they said no we know you changed it, because we're a political party -- and we get traffic and you changed it. and then they change the algorithm and they said we only get traffic now when we make and emmy's. when we say negative things about our opponents. and we know that's bad, we don't want to do that. but we've changed it. so facebook, we think we have this political marketplace with this invisible hand that guides us, we don't have an invisible hand, we have zuckerberg's digital hand who's making mitch changing the algorithm he's changing the marketplace -- makes democracy not work, makes us feel less and less enchanted with democracy, which means we can't regulate -- >> her point today, right. about this sort of get away from the speech and content moderation questions >> it's a false choice >> and also facebook wants to drive people to this, i should read the facebook statement. -- today antisemitic comment commerce to make committee held a hearing for it with the former product manager at facebook who worked for the company for less than two years, i know direct reports, never attended a decision point meeting with sea level executive, and testified more than six times tonight working on this subject matter in question. we don't agree with your characterization of many issues. she saying they want to push you into the speech question, let's talk about the algorithm. and that's what i'm hearing from you, and that's what i'm hearing from people who are who are more compelling in the space. there is this very very sophisticated computed doing something very sophisticated to our brains. and our next question, is is it really that good? though because a lot of times the algorithm feels very dumb to me, like i buy a thing, and then i advertize the same thing for me for three weeks. i already bought a dude. is it really as good as you're saying? >> i think when people hear this, they might think i can persuade you have anything. he is really easy to take something are already leaning towards and give you increased certainty. it pushes you and more extreme directions. it pushes everybody in opposite more district stream directions. political parties that have to cater to more extreme basis. -- they can agree and then democracy doesn't work. facebook's business model is incommensurables with democracy full stop. it's not just that it's showing us harmful content, it's a content problem, it's a reality. in the documents they showed, it was more effective for facebook to turn off the virality, three share button after two hops, then the billions of dollars they spent on fact checking. this isn't about content moderation, this is about morality. that freedom of speech, but freedom of reach. reach is not, even the conservatives believe right skull with a tentative responsibilities. if we have a right to speech yes, but a responsibility when you're getting a megaphone to reach two billion people, micro targets the most polarizing thing you say, to a percentage of the most against. it >> one of the smoking guns think she said, it is that she base they basically turn this virality, in the algorithm and a lot of the election and then they just turned it back up because the virality makes things grow. >> it's more profitable, growth works better and more things go viral. in a way you can see each of these companies competing on virology, facebook and twitter, they're all competing on this potential casino, who's gonna make this thing go as far as possible. to make things safe, they have to tune it down. but then of course, they want to make more money and more growth after turned back up again. and the tweet is at the variety is not safe, it doesn't create a society democracy that works. >> so if it's incommensurables, what are we headed towards? there is a political consisted, of our partisan consensus, i think it's a little bit like if you have a little bit industry, alcohol is one, automobiles, they used to put cocaine and coca-cola that might make us that's a bad idea, probably made up or more addictive. you can't do that. what's the version of that here, is it at the algorithmic level? i think we're in need of a more transformative approach i do think that short term, much like tylenol, in the johnson & johnson 19 eighties, remember, there's poison in the tablets. and they said oh shoot we have to solve this problem, they could is that there's poison in the talents but we want to keep making money when we figured, out so we leave it on the store shelf. they didn't do, that they took it off the shelf. until they could actually build a tamper proof top. and i think we're in a position, our anything, we know from facebook's own research that they know that this is unsafe. they could take that off the shelf, limit it to two hops for the short term. until we make it better and notice that still keeps freedom of speech. we're talking about dangerous levels of unregulated reach. with an ai that's trying to make the craziest things go. viola we all live in crazy town for the rest of her. lives >> does everyone inside their know what's going on to people? understand you? obviously have a specific perspective on this as some of the other whistleblowers do. we have more and more these folks coming out saying there's something messed up here. how broadly is that? and of the people you think that are working inside? >> oftentimes you hear from people who leave the company and say wow i feel like i was working on a cult. they didn't realize that they were inside of the belief. system because the rhetoric is so strong. facebook is really good for free expression i want to be clear. it's not just about one company or facebook, it's about the business model that treats, like we were talking earlier, the modification of human, attention which means it's that race to the bottom of the brain stem, for our paleo ethic responses, and your sorting for the re-activities of society. tiktok does, that instagram does, that facebook does, that they do it in different ways but that's the things that systematically, we have to transform. and that's what i'm hoping we can, do with congress >> that was great come back again i love to keep talking about. this is a really important stuff. thanks a lot. tonight the fbi is stepping in after an unprecedented rise in threats and intimidation, at local school board meetings. how senator josh hawley is siding with the mauve again. that's. nexte mauve again. that's next instantly clear everyday congestion with vicks sinex saline. for fast drug free relief vicks sinex. instantly clear everyday congestion. and try vicks sinex children's saline. safe and gentle relief for children's noses. ♪ i see trees of green ♪ ♪ red roses too ♪ ♪ i see them bloom for me and you ♪ (music) ♪ so i think to myself ♪ ♪ oh what a wonderful world ♪ last week, as we covered on the show. the national school board association wrote a letter to joe biden, asking for federal assistance to combat the growing threat of violence and intimidation directed at local school boards across the country, yesterday the justice department responded with a one page memo, and it simply direct federal law enforcement to work with, local interest to curb the threats of violence, in today doing a senate judiciary hearing, featuring debris the a.g. lisa monaco, republican senator josh hawley of missouri, best known for raising his fist in support of the january six insurrectionists, before they storm the capital, objected to. he thinks, innocent parents are being silenced, by the doj, for politely disagreeing with their local government. he was indignant as he asked the deputy attorney general, about the existence of school board threats and intimidation. which is frankly kind of astounding when the reality of what's happening on the ground, is undeniable. >> it's waiting to express ones view at a school board meeting, harassment and intimidation. >> we know who you. are we know who you are. you can leave freely, but we can find you. and we know you. our >> harassment and intimidation? one of those terms mean in the context of a local school board meeting? the death threat was you're going to get 90 -- you're going to get -- your dead. tell me where, the line is, with parents expressing their concerns, waiting for hours in the school board meetings. we've all seen the. videos that happened in my state. >> they were actually throwing fists and hitting each other outside the auditorium this evening, after the board unanimously voted to approve requiring masks. if this isn't a deliberative attempt to chill parents, from showing up at school board meetings. for their elected school boards, i don't know what it is. >> one of the board members they called for her and her children to choke and die, another one said, that the board member was about to get ruins. another one suggested another board member died by suicide. calling also for harassment and bullying board members, you are attempting to intimidate them. you are attempting to silence them. >> it has an effect on. you that you really can't put into words. >> when someone describes the way they want to come into your home, and end your life. >> i cannot believe that in attorney general of the united states, is engaging in this kind of conduct. and frankly i can't believe that you are sitting here today, defending it. >> josh bell is very upset we're gonna send him that montage just to read him into a little bit of what's been going on at the local, but i suspect the nose. it's not just school boards, city council members and election officials even teachers are facing threats physical cells from the right-wing mob >> apparent took it upon himself to verbally assaulted principle, that led to a serious physical altercation between him and a teacher. as the teacher intended to protect the principle. superintendent said the attack happened yesterday, when the parents daughter walked out of a school building, wearing a mask. >> it was physical. the teacher's bleeding had some lacerations to his face. had some bruising on his face. pretty good size not the back of his. said she says the male parent was frustrated with the schools indoor mask requirement, for everyone while students are on campus. >> that was the first day of school in california back in. august sense and that kind of behavior in schools is not stopped. according to the los angeles times, in michigan a father was ejected from his school board meeting because he gave the nazi salute, and yelled, hail hitler. after another parent spoke in favor of masks. in another school of father of a boy who is ordered to quarantine, came to the child's arizona elementary, school with two other men carrying zip ties. and threatened the principle was citizens arrest. and his school board meeting in florida, were governor ron desantis's ban mask mandates in schools, a protester doused a tray of mass with lighter fluid, instead it and fire. we're seeing more and more of these threats and violence against teachers and school board members across the, country which is why today the department of justice is taking action to investigate. joining me now, dr. tory gifts, and she is the superintendent for the unified school district in california. but one of her teachers was violently attacked by a parent, on the first day of school. doctor gibson, thank you very. much first i feel like i should start by asking, that teacher is okay right? >> yes he is doing well. what have you seen on the ground level there? in your county, in terms of harassment, threats, violence directed at either schooled ministries or teachers? >> early on when the school year started, back in august, it was daily. he was all, day every day. it didn't matter the day that we, it was a very consistent, since then, we've been able to really work with our community, we've done a lot of pr work, to try to educate our community on, these are not our, mandates were just the ones inquired to enforce, them and really working with this system, and around the system when we can honestly. with always our number one thing is to keep everyone safe. both physically and emotionally, but it's been difficult, meetings have been interesting, and we've had some interesting pairing engagements. we're doing the best we can at this point >> what do you mean by interesting? >> a, we've had parents send kids to school, i think it was in the l.a. times article that they ran, where a parent just as the student to go to school, refused to wear your mask, refused to leave the classroom when an adult asked you to leave. have them called the police tanya. i don't condone that kind of behavior when parents are putting kids in the middle of just a really tough time politically, emotionally, socially in our society. >> senator halle today, in that, hearing was sort of saying that he doesn't understand the line, and i imagine your local school administrator, and every school administrator i've ever dealt, with those public meetings. it's part of the job, and in fact, getting yelled that is also part of the job. i've been in some pretty spirited local school board meetings. do you have a sense of what the line is, when you see them say where is the line? what is the line? do you have a sense of what's someone being upset a school board meeting in someone doing something over the line? >> absolutely, i was watching that clip as i was waiting to come on, and it was really kind of scratching my head a little bit. i would love to invite him to be with us for a week or two. and see exactly what it's like. i think it's easy for people to sit on the outside and sit in our seats, i think there is a line. just like the parent who had their student deliberately go in and cause a huge disruption on the school campus. i invited that parent to come to the school pour meeting in voice their concerns, but as long as it's civil. and i made that very clear. and i have no problem with parents coming, they have three minutes, each we have 20 minutes per hour roberts rules of, order and we follow those worries and. and it's not a problem when people have a voice, and i always want to have that platform for our families. where the line is drawn is when, on a saturday, as my husband stated in the article, he's always having to look over the shoulder for me. that's the first time i've actually heard him say that. so i was a little taken back when i read the article, and that was his response to the reporter, was that he's fearful for my safety, when we're out together. justin is simple saturday afternoon. i think that's where the land gets drawn, this is my job, i'm very passionate about. i'm very dedicated, but as educators we also deserve the respect for what we do every day. >> doctor gibson, it strikes me that, the job you do, and particularly the people that are serving on the scoreboard, switches in most cases, in my reporting life, not a paid position. sometimes they are diminished amount. i don't think you guys are getting rich over there. this is not being done for a lot of glory, you're not getting like endorsement deals out of this i assume. everyone who is on the other side of the yelling tends to be someone who's basically trying to do well by kids. but not to say that you don't make mistakes, but that's generally the thrust. would you say that's a fair characterization? >> i think that's a perfect characterization. on the flipside, i don't think as educators, we have ever had more conversations about how many years before we can all retire, which is sad, but at this, point were just really tired. we do do these jobs, no matter what job we, do whether it's you or get a classified position, your teacher, your management. we all do it for the right reasons. and it's for the kids. and i think that people forget, that and yet we definitely don't have endorsement. deals i wish, i would welcome the money, time. >> perfect, actor terry gibson, thank you for joining me. >> thank you so much for. having me >> still to come, police unions, extremely powerful institutions, you don't take on lightly. so when i tell you the fbi raided the headquarters of an nypd union and the home of the guy in charge, no small thing, what we know, including some big breaking news on the story, next. g breaking news on the story next we don't use just any wipe, we use dawn disinfecting wipes. they're tough enough to cut through greasy messes, yet gentle enough to clean the surfaces that matter most. all while killing 99.9% of bacteria and viruses. get the grease fighting power of dawn in a disinfecting wipe. we have some breaking, news in the last few. minutes at mullins, the presidents of the sergeants benevolent associations, one of the largest police unions in the country. has resigned. under pressure. he resigned after both his home and office were raided by the fbi, it's one of the new york city's main police unions, it represents about 13,000 active in retired and ypg sergeants. new york times reports that according to two people who acknowledge the, matter the headquarters were searched, as part of an investigation by the fbi, and the public corruption unit, and the u.s. attorney's office in manhattan, investigators also executed a search, warrants at the long island home of the union's president, edward d. mullins, ed mullins. seen there. had been the president since 2002, it's a long time, here in under is, tenure the union endorsed donald trump for reelection, and mullins visited him at the white house, just after trump's first impeachment. he's also been a fairly regular gas and outlets like newsmax and fox news, depending police conduct, and arguing the officers should be allowed to use things like chose holds interests. >> the head lack is the very same city council speaker minute mayor de blasio are trying to implement, where for the police officer did, that he would be arrested. it's time that this city holds those politicians accountable. they are tying the hands of the police officers. they do not want us to be out there making these arrests. >> you made a scene directly behind him in that interview, maybe even notice that the internet certainly. did a mug with the qanon logo on it. the conspiracy that claims the world is run by satanic cabal of child abusing a. leads mostly democrats. he said it wasn't's office, even though he's done multiple interviews from the same location. even before today's federal, raid mullins was under internal investigation, by the nypd, after he tweeted in 2020 quote. mayor de blasio, the members of the nypd are declaring war on you. then during last summer's protest, after george floyd's, murder mullins tweeted out the arrest report, from mayor de blasio's daughter. he's facing internal nypd trial over, that which is basically a no no. other internal charges about tweets from city, officials he called the city health commissioner, a quote, bitch with blood on our hands. after she declined to prioritize mass for police officers during the paying met it. last fall event tweeted that then -- a first-class tore. richie torres is now a congressman, represented new york's 15th congressional district, and he joins me now. it's good to have you on congressman. i have never encountered, anyone in public life, that talks the way that the head of the police unions do. literally nowhere, outside of wrestling maybe. what did he say that about? you and what was the context of the? >> so i was actually holding a press conference, with then president eric adams. raising questions about response times in the nypd. as a public official my job is to ask questions. and so he felt the need to go on twitter, him referred to me as a first horror edmonton's is essentially the donald trump of new york city politics. he's just the single greatest embarrassment. he is a long-standing pattern of embracing conspiracy theories and trafficking in racism and sexism, and homophobia. as you noted, he threatened violence against the mayor himself. he released the confidential records of the mayor's daughter. he's hurled homophobic and misogynistic -- he referred to a black nfl player is a wild animal. he sent to -- section eight scammers edison welfare queens. there's been a repeat pattern, of trafficking in the worst forms of misconduct in bigotry. he's done it with impunity. the case of this man tells the larger story. about the achilles heel of american policing. the lack of accountability. is that there, if people like him are not held accountable there's never going to be an incentive for them to follow the rules. it blew my mind that he's been there from thousand two. i think your point about democratic accountability here is really a key one. i have to say, as a reporter, and i'm sure as a politician this is more true for you than it is for. me i spent a lot of time talking to cops they run the gamut. some of them i don't agree with, i'm somebody, do their all kinds of people with all kinds of views. the voice and tone of the police union, is so, it's so aggressive and bigoted and destructive. and it just makes you feel like they are constantly saying, no one can stop us. you certainly can't stop us. we're declaring war in the mayor, and nothing will happen to us. and how are people who are police by those folks, not to feel like targeted >> look the culture of impunity, is deep and at the very core policing. and ed mullins, was outlandish, an outrageous, because he knew he would get away with. that not only was he collecting a six figure salary from the union. he was receiving, a six figure salary from the nypd. so we the taxpayers were subsidizing his misconduct and bigotry and he was found to have engage, in misconduct and there was never any accountability. so the fbi raid, to finally force his resignation which was long overdue. how do you make sense of the fact that he has been there for 19 years? and the fact that again i have to say the other police unions, it's not just in new york. this is just across the board go to the twitter feeds of police unions, they come off as utterly unhinged. they really do. and i'm not saying this is they speak for all cops, but go look at police union statements. what's does that say, that that is the tone in which these professional organizations communicate. when they are putatively there to protect people, to care for people. to show respect and courtesy and professionalism. >> comes off not only as unhinged, but trumpian. there's nothing benevolent about this sergeant benevolent association, which is essentially a hate group. masquerading as a police union. and i represent the south bronx. communities of color. and we have no confidence, that people like ed mullins, are going to police us properly. and responsibly, and to listen to them speak, you get the impression that the purpose of these unions, is not to raise the wages and benefits of their members. but to defend misconduct, no matter how egregious. >> where are we one year after, more than a year after the protests. after the wild acts of misconduct by many members of the nypd? there were captured on tape? after a difficult period in the city. as someone who represents, where do you see things being? >> we are no closer to reforming policing, or fundamentally changing the reality among the ranks in the police department. there are elements of right wing stream-ism, within the ranks of local law enforcement. i worry about the doctrine of qualified immunity, which is essentially a license to brutalize black and brown lives. with impunity. and with the lack of progress around the george floyd of progress around the george floyd justice and policing act, we are sadly no closer to reforming policing in america. >> great to have you on. thank you very much. that is "all in" on this tuesday night. "the rachel maddow show" starts now with ali velshi in for rachel. >> that is a fascinating conversation. we are strongly in favor of unions and collective bargaining and increasing the wages and working conditions of people. police unions in this country are unhinged. you said it well. it is -- it goes against everything that i believe a union needs to do. they're nuts. >> the tone that emanates -- we just had the chicago police union comparing vaccine mandates to the nazis. there's just literally no one in public life -- maybe with the ex

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