long oolg. hill leaders crunch the numbers on how many fellow democrats they could go without. a new move developing by republicans that's actually giving a boost to progressives. here one on one with us senator warren to talk about wit the biden agenda on the line, yet another setback, too, as talks on a police reform bill go down in flames. live on the hill with why the talks are over and live with shareeduh tate, the cousin of george floyd. good afternoon. good to be with us. ali vitale on capitol hill and joined by john breznahan. here's what we're watching. president biden's democratic diplomacy if you will happening all afternoon into tonight trying to work out the differences with democrats to save the key priorities. infrastructure and a huge social spending program and progressive democrats are dug in saying the spending bill be passed first before the vote on the more popular infrastructure bill and concerned if infrastructure goes first moderate democrats could bail on the spending plan. then the new republican roadblock from mitch mcconnell. new old roadblock if you will coming to the debt ceiling debate saying senate republicans will not vote to raise the debt ceiling saying the democrats can do it by themselves so that's what they should do. a simple majority. last night the house passing a bill to keep the government running and suspending the debt ceiling to next year. the question now is can joe biden right now this hour serve as peacemaker in chief to end this internal dramatic drama? this is not just squabbling. at stake are the priorities, the stuff he ran on, the sweeping changes to help americans. >> reporter: incredibly high stakes for the president's domestic agenda. one, of course, he ran on with competence and unity, the ability to bring different sides of aisle together. we saw that on display with the bipartisan infrastructure deal earlier this summer. now he has to do it within his party and own family in a sense and so we just asked white house press secretary jen psaki how he views the role in the meetings this afternoon. to be a closer and essentially doing a little bit of each thing we understand and there might be different conversations in the separate meetings because there's not just one big meeting and a question posed to the white house. why not bring progressives and the moderates to the table to hash it out. and the press secretary said because the president wants to have specific conversations about where they do see any wriggle room but the president has been clear that he hasn't wanted to make concessions but wants to get the agenda passed so that's where the number could shift. it was notable today when asked have they ruled coming down? the white house said we haven't ruled out anything and nothing is off the table but the key meetings are going to be happening behind closed doors and where they feel president biden can shine. they think he in the words of jen psaki roll up the sleeves and have difficult conversations and view this about getting to a place where the president says we need answers on this. what's the plan going forward so democrats don't appear to be as divided as they are heading into the meetings this afternoon. >> it is not clear if covid safe snacks cut it. ali, do you see any soons of optimism to be a break through on this? that's what would have to happen for anything to move forward, right? this is a standoff. >> reporter: it is. there's lip service being paid to optimism but the reality is as we talk to lawmakers very much the opposite of that. both factions in the house and senate seem dug in on both infrastructure negotiations and reconciliation but also on the issue of raising the debt ceiling and funding the government. on infrastructure the do or die day is in the house on monday when nancy pelosi promised the moderate members to vote on the bipartisan infrastructure bill but as you so deftly laid out in the introduction progressives don't want to decouple the detrack process, that's what they feel would happen with the vote on monday and lawmakers that i have talked to are clear that right now they don't support a vote on that bipartisan bill. what this really gives the picture of is that the democratic party on one of its top legislative of priorities of infrastructure should be rowing in the same direction but the boat are not moving. >> the dems are in the majority. republicans should join us because it's their debts as well as ours and when the shoe is on the other foot the democrats did the responsible thing when president trump was in the white house on debt ceiling but if they don't join us shame on them. we won't close down government and not defaulting on the debt. >> reporter: fired up about the debt ceiling and government spending and hopes that democrats can come together on the infrastructure bill. on the debt ceiling washington and the hill likes to deal with the crisis in front of them. that's not the crisis. that's a few days after infrastructure. >> the next crisis. >> reporter: but nevertheless six former treasury secretaries urging lawmakers today to act quickly to suspend or raise the debt ceiling otherwise threatening the economy at an already fragile point here in the post-covid recovery. >> i want you to pull back and give us the 30,000-foot view here. i'm not -- you are covering this for a long time and young at heart. >> thank you very much. >> you have seen the cycle a time or two. i know you talk to everybody on this front. what are you hearing and watching for as the meetings go on this afternoon and tonight? >> i think you guys did a good job laying it out. you have a government funding debt limit crisis. that's moving into really serious territory, moving into emergency territory right now. >> that's the next thing on the plate. two things down. to ali's point. two crises if you will down the road. >> government funding runs out september 30th. next week. they have to deal with something like that. right now you have the house democrats have tied the debt limit to the government funding. unless those two issues get separated we can have a dual crisis, a government shutdown and a debt default so i'm not sure how they're getting out of that. some colleagues just talks the chairman of the house budget committee. the proposals of republicans that democrats do it themselves he says they don't have time to do it. so i'm not sure how they get themselves out of this. and then reconciliation, on the big, massive $3.5 trillion spending traffic i think there's serious divides in this party on prescription drugs, taxes, on spending, on the level of debt. joe manchin and sinema have been strong on this. john tester is down there today. he wants this paid for. if you want to spend it you have to tax for it and then bernie sanders, he is not in the same place here. he wanted $10 trillion bill. you have serious ideological divides in the party. as you said biden won't knock heads together. that is not his style. he doesn't have the -- not his way but he can say, look, what do we agree on? the president needs to save his own legislative agenda. he is already dinged in the polls and got to get movement on this. >> this is a live shot of the white house. really quickly, do we know, is he in with pelosi and schumer? >> reporter: that's the expectation. the white house plans to issue their own version of how it went this evening, as well. >> see it stacked up and happening live in this hour if the changing of the guard happens from leadership to moderate to progressives and the meetings lined up. thank you all very much. we are going to leighann caldwell, there's another priority officially dead on capitol hill. this is developing this afternoon. the bipartisan police reform talks. those talks ending without a deal. come in and explain this to us. the talks were hot and then cold and then hot again and off for good? is that your sense? >> reporter: that's absolutely right. so senator booker who's the lead democratic negotiator in the talks made a call to scott of south carolina. they spoke this morning and senator booker essentially pulled the plug. he realized that they were not going to agree. that these were dragging out and moving from each other than together. we know there's a police reform meeting between booker, scott and democratic representative from california karen bass just yesterday. this morning senator scott said that they had a meeting yesterday. they're going to continue to talk and shortly after senator scott told us that booker called scott and said it was over. the reality is these talks fell apart in the end of june. that's when things were extremely close. they had an agreement on the idea of qualified immunity, the other issues they had agreement on and i'm told that senator scott actually backed away from that even though the fraternal order of police and the police unions were engaged and agreed to but the chiefs of police that didn't support the agreements. senator scott backed away and ever since then they had so much trouble coming together and trying to find agreement on the various issues and no-knock warrants which they thought was agreed to monthses ago came back on the table and we had been waiting around here for when the talks were going to end because we saw the writing on the wall. it seems like that for weeks even the past couple mofts and finally senator booker decided they are wasting the time and not the appropriate time to go on despite the pressure from outside groups, despite the pressure from the public especially after the murder of george floyd to get something done. >> later this hour we'll talk with the cousin of george floyd for the first reaction about this latest development. do that not miss that. i want to bring in somebody who is involved in some of these conversations, senator elizabeth warren, democrat from massachusetts. good afternoon. it's great to have you back on the show. >> good to see you, i'm glad to be here. >> there's developing news coming in from a letter you and the colleagues just sent and before, quickly, the reaction to the police reform talks falling a part. this is a big prior for the president and democrats and people who are involved like the family of george floyd. >> this is a big priority for our nation and the fact that we couldn't move the republicans to try to come together partly it was around this issue of qualified immunity, about whether or not police officers have to be held responsible the way that others are held responsible when they engage in sometimes lawless activities, that's a real problem and it tells us about how everything seems to keep pulling apart, even when most americans, i believe americans of goodwill say we need to make some changes and the kind of changes that i know this group was working on were ones our country wanted so i'm very sorry to hear this. i hope there comes a time when we can get everybody back together but we are going to need the republicans to stand up on this. >> i want to ask you about the big news that we cover this hour from really the white house and capitol hill with those meetings that are happening as we speak at the white house and democratic leadership with the president now and then meeting with moderates and progressives. you have signed on to a statement with ten of your more progressive colleagues in the senate and i want to read a piece of what you are backing. you say we, it is you senator booker, gillibrand and others, we support the caucus and members in the house who have said they intend to vote for the bipartisan infrastructure bill once the build better back bill is backed. you are giving the weight to the progressives meeting with president biden in a bit. what do you need to see, what will you accept on that front? >> look. i'm not saying anything i haven't said now for months. remember when the whole question about how we were going to do build back better first came up months we knew we needed roads and bridges. we need child care so that mamas can go back to work. we need to expand medicare coverage so that it covers dental and hearing and vision and make a big down payment on fighting against the climate crisis. so there were some of our colleagues in the democratic caucus that said we'd like to break this into two parts. one part is going to be something we'll negotiate bipartisan with the republicans and then a second part. and the rest of us went along with that on the understanding all the pieces move together. not one piece moves and gets passed and then maybe we can negotiate the rest of it. all the pieces move together and that's what that letter is about. that's what the progressives in the house want. that's what the progressives in the senate want and that's what we agreed to a long, long time ago. >> but the question here, one of the questions here is we don't know if that reconciliation piece on the senate side is ready by monday. there's the hope that that will happen. house speaker pelosi committed to the moderates that the 27th is when she would bring it to the floor. does she need to push that back? >> house speaker pelosi committed we were not going forward with one piece without the other. that's something that the president of the united states committed to. this is something that we all agreed to from the beginning and let me just underline, this is not just about process. this is what we need to get done in america. roads and bridges, you bet. child care. look how many millions of women are out of the workforce right now. 1 in 4 says i can't go back into the workforce because i don't have child care. and when they don't have child care that means those small businesses that used to rely on those mamas and daddies to do the work that needs to done they can't find the employees they need and now we talk about chasing a downward spiral. not good for the economy. not good for businesses and certainly not good for the families that are cut out. we need that child care and we need it to go forward. so i see this as this is about getting the pieces the american public needs for the 21st century. >> do you think that the speaker should push that deadline of the 27th back? >> i'd like to see us get finished in time to have something to vote on. what i want to do is hold everybody to the original agreement and that is the pieces going forward together. we voted in the senate as the letter says with many of us understanding that nothing was going forward, not one piece ahead of the other. i know this is tough. i understand negotiations are tough but what's on the line is child care. what's on the line is increasing the housing supply so first-time home buyers get into a market. what's on the line is health care for seniors. what's on the line is the survival of this planet and fighting back against climate change. we won't leave that at the station while the train takes off without it. >> this is probably to the e terch frustration of members that serve in congress when the people in the media talk about the optics. i get that that's annoying but you have a potential for the house progressive caucus to vote down potentially something that the president campaigned on, a key priority that in fact on the whole many democrats sun port. does that not concern you that we could -- the democratic party, that the country could get to that point? >> for me this is not about playing politics. this is about what our nation needs. i don't think we need to push anybody. we're democrats. whether we describe ourselves moderate or progressive democrats or whatever democrats. we're trying to row in the same direction, trying to get to the same end point and talking with each other. this is tough but that's what we have to keep our eyes on. what's the end point to try to get to? we need to cover roads and bridges? you bet. but we also need to cover child care, need to fight back against the climate crisis. a reason we have such a big package is because of how long america has underinvested in every one of these. we have one train that's going to leave the station and we need to make sure all the pieces are there. >> this is one of the pieces that democrats need to deal with. right? and before i get to the debt limit, very quickly, senator manchin said lately what he wants in a spending bill? >> i'm not going to talk about private conversations. >> can you give us a hint? >> no, no, no, no. you can always talk to him. >> all right. let me ask you about the debt limit and this issue about the debt ceiling because people hear that and i think it's sometimes tough for people to access what that means. there are extremely real world consequences. right, thakt happen if the debt ceiling is not raised. more than 6 million jobs could be lost. unemployment to 9%. we could see higher interest rates for credit cards, mortgages. see payments, military paychecks stopping. the stock market, let's not talk about the impact there. u.s. households could lose $15 trillion in wealth. this is the real world outcomes. is there is a universe you think democrats should on their own do something to make sure that doesn't happen or is it bipartisan or bust for you? >> there is no bust because that is catastrophic for the united states. but i do believe it's time to call the republicans out over this. are you kidding me on the debt ceiling? when donald trump was president and needed the raise the dead ceiling over and over democrats said, yep, we get it. what are we trying to raise it for now? to cover the debts that were incurred during the trump administration. and the republicans want to turn around and play political games with that? they want to threaten to blow up the entire economy and actually the world economy over that? they want to throw our good name in the toilet for their political gains? no. where i am right now is to call out the republicans who are saying that they are going to behave so irresponsibly as not to vote to increase the debt limit. keep in mind this is not about future spending. this is about honoring the promises we made in the trump administration. >> so you're calling out republicans. is then your bet that senator mitch mcconnell will budge? >> i don't see how he doesn't. how long will they play the political games before the rest of america calls them out? i'll call them out but all of america should call them out and say, i get it. you think you are great at politics but enough is enough. our economy is on the line. jobs are on the line. people's futures are on the line. the republicans need to do the sensible thing that the democrats did when trump was president and that is raise the debt ceiling. >> senator elizabeth warren, thank you for your time. i know it is a busy time for you there on capitol hill. we appreciate you being with us this afternoon. thank you. it appears that senator schumer just departed. we'll check back in on how those meetings are going in a bit but reaction to the formal collapse of police reform talks on the hill with the cousin of george floyd joining us live. first details of president biden's talk with the french counterpart since that feud erupted. what's putting the relationship back on track for now and later inside facebook's push to rehab the reputation. including one strategy signed off on personally but mark zuckerberg that shocked other executives. the reporter behind that scoop is with us live later. stuff. new zzzquil ultra helps you sleep better and longer when you need it most. it's non habit forming and powered by the makers of nyquil. new zzzquil ultra. when you really really need to sleep. without my medication, my small tremors would be extreme. i was diagnosed with parkinson's. i had to retire from law enforcement. it was devastating. one of my medications is three thousand dollars per month. 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more at factsonhand.com today. so not too long ago you had president biden and french president macron talking on the phone. their first discussion since that diplomatic dust-up over the u.s. deal with the uk and australia. the ambassador called a knife in the back with both countries announcing fairly notable agreements in the call saying they'll have in depth consultations with a meeting in europe next month why the french ambassador will be returning to washington next week. kerr simmons is in london. we got a picture of the call going down and what's interesting is the white house isn't saying that president biden apologized for anything. there it is. they say he convoyed an ongoing commitment to consulting allies. right? give us the read between the lines, pal. >> reporter: yeah. look. this was an enormous, furious diplomatic row between america and france and also a lot of fireworks many people might say. so okay. president biden and president ma ron have patched it up after macron refused to talk to the american president for five days and recalled his ambassador but you make the important point that the president has not said sorry for scuttling that french thank you thought billion-dollar deal with australia. providing australia with nuclear submarines. some of the boring details if you like president biden has reaffirmed the importance of the french and european role in the indo-pacific. agreed a stronger european military and agreed to support efforts to fight terrorism in africa but look. in the end what's really happening here is that they are papering over the cracks across the atlantic, being caused by america's shifting away from the focus on europe and turning to china and anyone who knows anything that basic about a map will know that europe is a long way away from china whereas america shares the pacific with china and that gives you a picture of why this shift is happening. the problem for the europeans, doesn't matter what they said on this call, the problem for the europeans a take germany for example. china is germany's biggest trade partner. how do the yourians balance between america's new posture towards china and china itself? this challenge isn't going away. >> kerr live there in london for us, thank you. appreciate it. coming up, the latest back and forth in trump versus trump. the new statement just in as the former president takes his niece and "the new york times" to court. so does he have a legal leg to stand on? new reporting from dhs in the last hour, how the u.s. plans to deal with the surge in haitian migrants at the texas border. border introducing fidelity income planning. we look at how much you've saved, how much you'll need, and build a straightforward plan to generate income, even when you're not working. a plan that gives you the chance to grow your savings and create cash flow that lasts. along the way, we'll give you ways to be tax efficient. and you can start, stop or adjust your plan at any time 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[inflammation] i prefer you didn't! xiidra. not today, dry eye. finally yasso! a ridiculously creamy, crunchy, chocolatey dipped ice cream experience with 25% less calories because it's made with greek yogurt. so, thanks for everything ice cream, but we'll take it from here. yasso audaciously delicious new reaction this afternoon from the attorney for mary niece to the $100 million lawsuit that donald trump filed yesterday. that attorney calling it doomed to failure like the rest of his baseless efforts to chill freedom of speech and of the press. that lawsuit accusing mary trump and three "the new york times" reporters of a plot and crusade to obtain the tax records. as for mary trump, i think he is a loser and will throw anything guest a wall he can. the "the new york times" calls the suit an attempt to silence independent news organizations. promising to defend this vigorously. i want to bring in justice correspondent pete williams. first, what kind of legal leg does donald trump have to stand on? would he not have to be deposed and could that then reveal the information he sought to keep under wraps? >> in terms of merits on the case based on the filings and seen the critical responses but not that count in court, there is a claim she violated the nondisclosure agreement of 2001. and she signed an agreement saying not only release the terms of the settlement and not disclose the documents used in the court battle and according to the lawsuit those are the documents that she gave to "the new york times" that resulted in this 2008 story about how trump basically was not a self made man and got dough from his father and not altogether in above board ways. that was the genesis of the "the new york times" story. it is less strong against "the times" because they didn't sign any agreement and there's an aten waited claim to them. perhaps that's the intent to intimidate news organizations but the better claim is against the niece. now as to -- >> the deposition question, pete. >> right. well, so there is a risk here that if the litigation does actually come to trial and there are xiblts and some documents come out, yes, some of the documents that are subject to this nondisclosure agreement could come out. you have to say a number of them apparently already have in her book and "the new york times" story and hard to tell the game plan and a risk if he does follow this through that some of this stuff that he doesn't want to come out could come out. >> right. >> thank you for breaking that down for us. appreciate it as always. >> okay. an update on the plan for many haitians at the border in del rio, texas. nbc news is reporting that thousands of them will be allowed to seek asylum. that's according to the sources here at nbc news. two senior officials. released on a notice to appear and it is a process that's been used a lot dealing with the people arriving at the border this year. all the as homeland security secretary mayorkas faced another round of tough questions from congress today. talking about the unprecedented speed of arrivals at dell row owe and after deportees to haiti. a source telling nbc news some assaulted pie lots and injured three officers yesterday. morgan chesky is in del rio as he has been. let's start with the latest reporting. does that change anything on the ground that you see? >> reporter: it does not and it is a 24/7 operation really since sunday. we saw the mass arifle of law enforcement saturday night. once they got established the buses running more or less nonstop here and seen the numbers drop at the migrant camp. last check the mayor of dell row owe saying that 5,500 still under the bridge the peak over the weekend 15,000. so we're down below 6,000 first time in more than a week and more than 1,000 deported back to haiti and as for those others they were taken to centers that were not overwhelmed like the facilities are here in del rio. those were places where they could get processed and what we're learning is that thousands of those haitians that came here will be able to stay on u.s. soil for at least the next 60 days and when they have to report to the i.c.e. immigration office and given a court date to begin what will likely be a long asylum speaking process and spock to a 25-year-old haitian man that came here with his pregnant wife and they were underneath that bridge more than a week. were taken to houston and they will be reporting likely to an office somewhere in the united states but his goal get up to brooklyn with family members there. hopes to become a barber. that's a story of thousands here beneath the bridge and flip side we see people being taken back to haiti where in many cases they haven't lived for years because the important thing to know here is that following the 2010 earthquake in haiti that caused a mass migration to south america. many migrants beneath the bridge worked there specifically with the 2016 olympics when those jobs dried up, opportunities went away and then they felt like they had an opportunity for a better life and that's how they ended up here over the last week. i asked why de rio? he said it was known that it was a relatively easy crossing and that word of mouth spread incredibly quickly when a few hundred and then a few thousand came here, only a bus ticket away and then made the way into mexico and mexican officials last week had not been checking the buses the way they are today which has alleviated a problem of several hundred if not thousand migrants just across the river from continuing to come across. >> morgan chesky live for us there on the ground. thank you. want to get back to the breaking news from capitol hill. the collapse of those bipartisan talks on police reform. senator booker saying democrats are done negotiating. they are done he says and it is now time to explore all other options. remember those talks got started this year in large part after the murder of george floyd last year. we just got this statement from senator tim scott who remember was the lead republican negotiator. he said quote after months of making progress i am deeply disappointed that democrats squandered a crucial opportunity to implement meaningful reform. i want to bring in cousin to george floyd. good afternoon and thank you so much for being back on the show. >> good afternoon. thank you for having me. >> let me just start with your reaction. these talks officially ending when it comes to potential police reform on the hill. >> i'm disappointed. one of the things that we were asked often, you know, when they were -- didn't happen on the anniversary because it was initially promised and what our thoughts were and it was really that delay is denied. there's still an opportunity for something to happen. so with this new development, we are disappointed. >> what would you like to see happen next? are you hopeful the lawmakers can get back to the drawing board or do you think the onus is more on president biden and the white house to do something on the executive end? >> i think either onyx would work for us. whether the lawmakers get back to action or the president actually doing something but at this point i think whatever the president can do within his power to make sure this happens i think he should do it. >> you probably remember coming into the administration president biden vowed to start this police oversight commission essentially. that got put on ice, if you will. in my conversation with white house officials with a desire to have the legislative process move forward on capitol hill. now that that process appears to be over at the moment do you think president biden should reconsider the creation of that oversight commission? >> i think that the creation of the commission or anything that he's able to do within his power to help move this forward and not have us be at the stand still is what i think he should do. it is a promise that was made to the families, a promise made to the american people and i think it's important that we get the ball moving again. >> when you say a promise made to the family i know the family has had in-person discussions with president biden, with members of the white house team. did that come up? what kind of promises were made and what would you say to the president and the lawmakers now if you could? >> i think when i say promises i think that it's something that we all have heard as a common thread during the campaign and how important it was to the work to us the george floyd policing act and police reform and what i mean when i talk about promises. in terms of seeing something happen i just feel like delay is not denied and it is still my position and if there's anything to do to get those conversations started again or something that the president should do, can do we should be doing it. >> what is your level of optimism on that? >> i'm pessimistically optimistic. i use that a lot. as long as there's an opportunity there's still an opportunity for something to be done then i'll always be hopeful it will happen and i can't erase what i've seen historically happen and that's where the pessimism comes into play. i hope we'll come to a solution that's beneficial to all of us. >> thank you so much for being with us again this afternoon reacting to news that i know you are just processing. president of the george floyd foundation and cousin to mr. floyd. thank you. if you have been scrolling through facebook you may have noticed some things are different. published overnight a nix with this initiative of project amplify meant to amplify the company's reputation by putting positive stories about itself on the news feed. it is a tactic that the company started this year to try to basically fight some bad press on privacy, misinformation, hate speech. according to "the times" zuckerberg himself approved the project. i want to bring in one of the authors of that scoop, "times" journalist cher frankle. thank you for being us with. >> thank you. >> what did this project consist of and what's different now? >> this is something they have been mulling over if a while and then they said enough is enough and we'll start inserting stories into the actual news feeds. when you think about facebook the news feed is the prime digital real estate and what people see when they open the facebook app or homepage on the lap tops and by inserting things they ensure that people see this positive news ant facebook first thing when they logged on. >> did it work? did it help rehab the m and with the people? that was the point of this thing. >> right. they have only tested it in three cities and didn't tell us what the results have been but in other reporting we have seen that facebook's internal surveys showing really starting in 2018 people are telling facebook that they don't think that facebook is good for the world or it cares about users so facebook is seeing internal polling showing that consistently over three years. people have lost faith in facebook as a product and the company doing what is good for people. >> coming the creation of project amplify to combat the perception that the brand was starting to suffer because of the issues was everybody on board with this or zuckerberg on an island? >> the reporting shows some debate and largely in how to roll it out. for instance, a person suggested positive news stories of facebook and ads with the stories and a scope to the project amplify and that's what was under debate and mark zuckerberg agreed with the bigger thrust at the company to rehab the image, to push him as a person at the forefront of new technology and products and to distance him from a lot of the conflict and problems at the company. >> you talk about one specificen stance with the top posts and the top one was vaccine misinformation. what happened to that report? was it a wakeup call? buried? how seriously was it taken? >> what was interesting is the person that put together that report said they were doing so in the name of transparency and when they did see the results from this year and as you said the covid misinformation link as the top shared thing on facebook, they decided to release a different report and showed results from the second quarter of this year and we see chase book fudging its own sort of public reporting done in the name of transparency to make it look better for themselves. facebook said that they chose data from one quarter rather than another for various reasons but asking them why they chose to ignore the first quarter data we didn't get a response other than first quarter data we didn't vet a response other than we decided to go with something else. >> there was a stretch where it felt like, you know, people would talk, facebook would say, i am sorry about this, and people said don't be sorry, just do it. apologies aren't going to cut it here. do you think that was effective for facebook? how does that play into the perception that people have facebook given that the company was vocal about giving the apologies after the fact? >> i think facebook knows the apologies are getting pettive. on the back cover of my book we have apology after apology made by facebook. the language is startlingly similar. mark zuckerberg and sheryl sandberg have almost run out of words to use in order to apologize for the company's missteps. i think they are seeing internal research which is showing people aren't buying the apologies anymore when nothing changes. >> we know the book well. we know that you have a lot of fans of that book, glad you are able to join us to talk about your new reporting in and out thetimes. thank you for being on. turning now to news in the political world. what i am about to say will absolutely not come as breaking news any of you. joe biden is the president of the united states. again, not breaking news. but, apparently, to one of the candidates to lead the purple state of nevada, that appears to be a difficult fact to acknowledge. dean heller, this guy, telling the las vegas review journal he knows who the president is. he just won't name that person no matter how the question is asked according to the paper or how many times. we are talking about the former moderate republican senator who said he was 99% against a trump presidency back in 2016. although he eventually fell in line at one point telling the former president that everything he touches turns to gold. i want to bring in nbc news senior political editor mark murray. this is an interesting story. quote, i still know who the president is, but i do believe we have a problem with elections. setting aside the piece about the problem with elections which has not been found, there was no widespread fraud. we are broken records but we have to say it. joe biden is not volt mort. why is it so difficult for helder to say his name. >> we are seeing a republican candidate saying we are referring to the former president as president trump not former president trump to doing what we ended up seeing from dean heller where he is like i am not going to tell who you the president is, i can't name the president to even republicans who basically end up saying joe biden is not the legitimate president of the united states. and to be able to win primary contests and be able to have a future in the republican party, you have to pick one of those kinds of lanes right now. it's notable that dean heller, who ended up losing his u.s. senate seat in 2018, is running for governor in nevada, a state that democrats had a tremendous amount of success in in the last ten years. >> how likely is it these kinds of comments will help or hurt him? what does it do more? he's in a tough primary. it is competitive. it is perceived as a most conservative. helder is sort of disavowing the moderate label. how does this play? >> on one pant, probably well in republican primaries, but you have to think it probably doesn't help with you independent and persuadable voters. at the end of the day this is where the voters -- this is in their hands. do they reward candidates like that that are not actually saying what the actual truth is, that the sky is blue, or do they punish them? to me, what would be interesting even in this trump era, we have seen a lot of times that people who are not playing by the rules, not abiding by the norms, are still being rewarded by a lot of voters. >> when you talk about the state of the gone right now, the state of the republican party we have talked a lot on the show and behind the scenes how donald trump is still the de facto leader. what is interesting is we have new reporting from our team that george w. bush is going to be fund-raising for liz cheney. former president. we don't see this all the time. this appears to be somewhat of a statement. am i overreading that? what's your sense. >> this is the dividing line in the republican party. it is really not split down the middle where it is half donald trump and half george w. bush and bush former administration folks. it is more kind of a 90/10 contest right now in favor of the former president, donald trump. but certainly, liz compla chene people who are going to be backing her come from the bush wing of the party. even though bush had her own feud with cheney's father when he was bush's vice president that is one part of the republican party. it is so much smaller than it was after 2008, 2009, and certainly, after the trump years. but we will see if that actually makes a difference. right now, it is looking like one of those 90% trump kind of parties versus 10% left on the george w. bush side. >> political analyst mark murray for us here at nbc news. thank you, we will be looking for first read tomorrow morning as als. we have 35 seconds left in the show. we are going to enwith breaking news. luck of the draw. leann caldwell is on capitol hill. i understand you have new information as relates to how we started the show? >> pelosi and schumer just got back from their meeting with president biden at the white house. both had the same message coming back into the capitol saying they feel good, everything is on track. and speaker pelosi said everyone is calm. now, they could be lying through their teeth or spinning because, halle, just moments ago we also got a statement from senator bernie sanders and ten other democratic senators who say they stand with progressives in the house at letting the bipartisan infrastructure bill fail if they don't get a vote on reconciliation. so these next two meetings with president biden at the white house with the progressives and separately, the moderates, are going to be very critical. >> we will see how calm thing remain this evening. lee anne caldwell live on the hill. thank you. thank you for watching this hour of hallie jackson reports "debtline white house starts right after this break. reak [sfx: radio being tuned] welcome to allstate. ♪ [band plays] ♪ a place where everyone lives life well-protected. ♪♪ and even when things go a bit wrong, we've got your back. here, things work the way you wish they would. and better protection costs a whole lot less. you're in good hands with allstate. click or call for a lower auto rate today. when i heard about the science behind the new sensodyne repair and protect with allstate. with deep repair i was super excited about it. it shows that the toothpaste goes deep inside the exposed dentin to help repair sensitive teeth. life is just too short to miss out on simple things like drinking that cold cup of water or having a sip of hot coffee. i have the science to prove it, i can see that it works and i feel confident recommending it to my patients. i'm really excited to recommend new sensodyne repair and protect with deep repair. you need an ecolab scientific clean here. and here. which is why the scientific expertise that helps operating rooms stay clean now helps the places you go too. look for the ecolab science certified seal. before we talk about tax-smart investing, what's new? -audrey's expecting... -twins! ♪♪ we'd be closer to the twins. change in plans. at fidelity, a change in plans is always part of the plan. high, there, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. a special two-hour focus this afternoon on the collapse of one of the two major political parties in this country. never before has an historic defeat resulted in that party's losing candidate becoming a force idolized by its leaders and its base. never before has that

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