That the senates stalled Police Reform Bill may finally start to move. The key player in all of these senate negotiations continuing to be west Virginia Senator Joe manchin. Who along with Senator Amy Klobuchar and other senate democrats is pushing what they hope is a voting Rights Bill that can attract republican support. Who at the very least, withstand their sabotage. All of that tonight on Politics Nation. Along with a special treat, as we take an intimate look at the greatest. Filmmaker Ken Burns joins us tonight to share his new film on the life, strife, and legacy of Mohammad Ali five years after the death of the Peoples Champ. But first, politics. Joining me now, Senator Amy Klobuchar, democrat of minnesota, and chair of the senate rules committee. Senator klobuchar, getting right to why we wanted you with us tonight, what is the status of negotiations on this compromised voting Rights Bill, the freedom to vote act. You know weve rallied, marched, been involved on the front lines of this for a whole summer and since all of this all of these states started putting these new restrictions. So, this new act, which you and other senate democrats unveiled last week, the Tacit Assumption being that it can pass a filibuster, because, of course, Senator Joe Manchin is a major advocate for this bill. I was with Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer last week In Washington with Martin Luther King iii and his wife and i and i have also had several meetings with Senator Manchin on this issue. First, to press him to support the John Lewis Voting rights advancement act, and then to take him at his word that he could get enough republican support for this bill. Which as of now, is not known to have a single republican onboard. Let alone ten. And the Minority Leader says that can expect to stay that way. What happens if that doesnt change, senator . If we cant get any republicans . Are we prepared, the democrats because i certainly am, to revoke the filibuster or to work around it and try and pass these bills, because they must be passed . Well, al, lets just step back. You know im in favor of getting rid of the filibuster. But we had a major breakthrough. Senator schumer called us together, through the summer, at a Voting Rights group, which included Senator Warnock and padilla, as well as keene and kaine, senator tester, manchin, senator merkley, whos long led the for the people act. We came together and came up with a really strong bill that has gotten the support of president obama, has gotten strong, positive reviewed from all over the country. And what it does is it puts in basic federal Voting Rights, like taking on georgia where they said you couldnt even vote on the weekends in the runoff. That was a bill they just passed. Where they said that you are not going to be able to register for many, many, many days before the ultimately election in a runoff. Limiting voting by mail. These basic federal Voting Rights makes it clear that you can vote in a safe manner, regardless of your zip code. Its an exciting breakthrough, because we really couldnt get to the procedure and everything, as you know, being in countless meetings with me, with Senator Schumer, with Senator Manchin about this, it was really important to get a basic agreement on the bill. Then we go to the next step, which is how we get it done. And i think that you do want to do the reach out, you do want to figure out, you want to make the country understand what this bill means. Secretary of state who have listened to their feedback about some of the changes they wanted to making. And we need to explain this bill and how good it is, including taking on recent things, like getting rid of local election officials. We put a standard in, so that just cant so, its a very strong bill. And i think thats the first point your viewers need to know. Well, im not even disputing that. Ive read the bill. Some of my colleagues that lead national civil rights groups have read the bill and they feel that it is pretty strong. The question, though, is how it now can move forward. And i think that when many of the people in the public, many of us in the civil Rights Community want to know, and i think you and Senator Schumer expect were going to push this, is if we cant get ten republican votes, will the democrats say lets go for a carveout. I dont expect you to have to say that because youre continuing negotiations, but you have to expect im going to keep pushing and asking for it, because having a beautiful setup still doesnt mean you score if you dont get the ball through the hoop. Yes, very good, or in the case of the vikings today, you know, the touchdown in the zone. All right. Okay, so, that is true. But we needed Senator Manchin to embrace a bill and believe in it and weve done that. So next we cross the next bridge. Yes, we continue to reach out. Mitch mcconnell says hes against a lot of things, and sometimes theres agreements on. So thats next step. And Senator Manchin has signaled an interest in the standing filibuster in the past, which would requires a rules change. Youve mentioned the carveout. Im going to pursue whatever is necessary. We Cant Wait. Over 400 bills introduced. 31 passed. It is pure evil, the attempt to suppress a vote. And as we saw yesterday, on the Capitol Grounds with still, there are people out there that are continuing to believe in undermining our democracy. They did it with flagpoles and beat up Police Officers and they tried to undermine election. And this is another way to do it, but its by Passing Voting Bills across the country. Its happening right now. And we must Stand Up and i will do whatever is necessary to get this done. All right. Now, also, i wanted to ask you this, senator. I know how passionate you are about lowering Prescription Drugs for seniors. And i read your oped in the Minneapolis Star tribune on your efforts to include provisions in the democrats proposed budget that would allow medicare to negotiate with drugmakers. Can you tell us how thats going, briefly, senator . This must get done. Stop admiring the problem, i say, to those three house members who voted the wrong way this last week. Why . Over 90 of people are with us on this. Its not just the base of the matter. When you look at the cost of drugs in america, theyre way out of line. Drugs like Lyrica And Symbicor has gone way up, over 50 increases in them. The answer is to stop the ban that stops 46 Million seniors and people with disabilities from getting a good deal. A lets change it. I dont understand how he could prevent a bill that would help pay for dental and vision as Senator Sanders has explained and hearing aids. It must be part of this reconciliation package. I believe well find a way and this whole idea is, yes, roads and bridges, broadband, infrastructure. But also bringing the cost down for families. Child care, housing, Prescription Drugs. Now, senator, we have a little time to quickly talk infrastructure. The House Set to vote next monday on the bipartisan physical Infrastructure Package that has passed in the senate. But the larger 3. 5 trillion bill to expand Safety Net Programs remain under fire from republicans for doing too much, while some Progressive Democrats have tide their support for the physical bill to the social spending package. And Speaker Nancy Pelosi appears to have a slim margin for the defections on this. Will democrats be able to see this through, senator . Yes. Failure is not an option here. And there will still be negotiations on the second package, you know that. They have to go Hand In hand to get the votes in the house. And theyre both incredibly important to the future of this country. President biden is on the front line, working on it. The american Rescue Plan got us back on our feet to the point where were turning the corner on the pandemic, getting those vaccines out, and this is the next step. Senator amy klobuchar, thank you for being with us again. Joining me now, representing the district of columbia as delegate to the house of representatives, congresswoman Eleanor Holmes Norton. Let me ask you this, congresswoman. Youve been an activist, leader for decades. And during our march on Voting Rights at the National Mall last month, thousands called on lawmakers to allow d. C. Statehood. You have introduced are d. C. Statehood bill to congress before. Why is it so important now, more than ever, that washington, d. C. Be a state . When you consider the polarization of the congress, imagine if the district of columbia had two senators and im only asking for a house vote. Look how far weve gotten with, reverend al. We have we passed this vote twice. 216 cosponsored voted on the bill. Thats very unusual. Whats really encouraging, more than half of The American people now support statehood. And with democratic control of the house, the senate, and the white house, reverend al, we are trying to go for it this time. You know, i said at the rally, and i repeat, im for fighting to have democracy all over the world, from kabul, right to democracy, right in the district of columbia. How do we have people that want the capitals and other nations to have the right to vote and have representation, but we dont give representation on a federal level to people in our own Nations Capital. And on saturday, on saturday, a rally was organized in support of rioters, who were arrested for being part of the January 6th insurrection. The rally called justice for j6 was conducted on Capitol Hill and met with heavy police presence. A fence around the Capitol Building was brought back for additional security. Capitol police confirmed on twitter that the event remained under control and had little arrests, with only a couple hundred people in attendance. I mean, its just is this just the beginning of rightwing protests we will see on The Hill as part of the aftermath of the January 6th in your opinion . Well, that one was quite a dud. They had estimated 7,000, they got around 400 and the press is saying that counted them and the d. C. Police, it seems. It looks like people were telling people to stay away. The proud Boys Department come. The national guard here in the district of columbia didnt come. Were having to get all of that without statehood. If, in fact, we have statehood, it would be far easier to protect the capitol, to protect the district of columbia. When you consider, reverend al, that we in the district of columbia pay the highest federal taxes per capita and have a budget larger than that of 12 states, what is to be against . Now, on d. C. License plates, theres a model that comes to mind when you said that. Its a model on the License Plates in d. C. , quote, taxation without representation. And as we fight for americans across the country to ensure that they have proper Voting Rights and a voice in all elections, what do you hope to see . And if d. C. Does become a state, will you retire those License Plates . I Cant Wait to retire those License Plates. And reverend al, when people come into the district and you know this is a mecca for visitors because the capital is located here. Those License Plates help us a lot, because people see that you cant have taxation without representation. Helps us take back the message that the people in their own Nations Capital dont have the same rights they have. So License Plates have done us some good. And when you consider the district of columbia pays has larger budget than 12 states and i think i should say this, there is no democratic or i think, not democratic country in the united states that denies the people who live in their own Nations Capital the same rights as everybody else. Wow, on that one, i can close. Thats a very, very, very heavy statement. Thank you as always, delegate Eleanor Holmes Norton for being with us. Coming up on Politics Nation, we cannot wait any longer. Why we must Rise Up skpom together now to get something done on police reform. And later, the former Vice President who saved our democracy after the 2020 election, nobody, its not that guy. Well get into that and more with more political panel. But first, my colleague, Richard Lui with todays other top news stories. Richard . Rev, a very good Sunday Afternoon to you. Some of the stories were watching for you this hour. The cdc has added several Island Travel destinations to their list of places with a very high risk of covid infection. This includes st. Kitts and neves, granada and mauritius. Peter is projected to avoid landfall for several days. Heavier rain is expected to hit the area. And a volcano erupted today on spains Canary Islands around 3 24 p. M. Local time. Lava is flowing and a large plume of smoke can be seen from afar. Nearby villages were evacuated and spains Prime Minister changed plans to head to the area. More Politics Nation with reverend Al Sharpton right after the break. N with reverend Al Sharpton right after the break. With rinvoq. Rinvoq a oncedaily pill can dramatically improve symptoms. Rinvoq helps tame pain, stiffness, swelling. And for some rinvoq can even significantly reduce ra fatigue. Thats rinvoq relief. With ra, your overactive Immune System attacks your joints. Rinvoq regulates it to help stop the attack. Rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. Serious infections and blood clots, sometimes fatal, have occurred. As have certain cancers, including lymphoma, and tears in the stomach or intestines, and changes in lab results. Your doctor should monitor your bloodwork. Tell your doctor about any infections. And if you are or may become pregnant while taking rinvoq. Take on ra. Talk to your rheumatologist about rinvoq relief. Rinvoq. Make it your mission. If you cant afford your medicine, abbvie may be able to help. The best Things America makes are the Things America makes out here. The history she writes in her clear blue skies. The legends she births on Home Town fields. And the future she promises. When we made grand wagoneer, proudly assembled in america, we knew no object would ever rank with the best things in this country. But we believed we could make something worthy of their spirit. Water . Why . ahhhh incoming ahhhahh im saved water tastes like, water. So we fixed it. Mio. [swords clashing] had enough . No. Arthritis. Here. New aspercreme arthritis. Full prescriptionstrength . Reduces inflammation . Thank the gods. Dont thank them too soon. Kick pain in the aspercreme. For this weeks Rise Up, i want to reflect on the racial justice marches of last summer that followed the murder of George Floyd by a Minneapolis Police Officer and the pledges of support for reform from some of the countrys biggest companies. We marched by The Hundreds Of Thousands In Minneapolis and New York and Los Angeles and everywhere in between, including the thousands of us who gathered In Washington, at the end of the summer. People of all races gathered together in small towns and big cities, in the united states, and abroad to declare with one voice that black lives matter. And to demand major reforms in the Policing System that train the officer who knelt on George Floyds neck until he died. But it wasnt just the grassroots. Some of this countrys biggest corporations pledged huge sums in the service of racial justice. So a year later, how did they do . The Washington Post recently published an excellent and thorough investigation into the followthrough by the 50 largest public companies. I will note that comcast, msnbcs parent company, is included in this report. The first finding that i want to highlight is that 90 of the pledges dont come without strings. They are loans or investments that the companies might be able to profit from. This isnt necessarily bad, because this includes mortgages in majority black neighborhoods and in Capital Investments in black businesses. But its important to be clear about what were talking about. Loans are not the same as charitable giving. So lets look at that charitable giving. The Washington Post published this chart of where the actual charitable giving has gone, and remember, this is 10 of the total pledges of that number, the vast majority has gone to general economic equality and education. Both worthy causes. For companies that mostly shied away from the primary demands of last summers marches, criminal justice reform. According to the posts reporting, less than 2 of the actual charitable giving has gone to criminal justice reform. And of the nearly 50 Billion pledged from these companies, less than 2 Billion have actually been dispersed. Though some of the commitments were designed to be doled out over a period of years, representing longlasting initiatives for change. And so this week, im asking for a twofold to Rise Up. For those corporations, put your money where your mouth is. You all made big promises last summer and we arent going to forget. And to everyone else, hold these companies to account. Check out their full report on the Washington Post and see if your workplace is listed. Then make sure that they follow through. Racial justice is a generations long struggle and a worthy one. The needed reforms that we are calling for will require All Of Us from individual citizens to enormous corporations to Rise Up together. S to Rise Up together two brothers. David my grandfather, pinchas. Michael my greatgreat grandfather, rachmaiel. Gigi pinky and rocky. Simi there was an uprising in poland. David and then the family broke apart. Michael they scattered around in different places. Gigi they worked hard. Simi and built new lives. Michael but rocky and pinkys families didnt see Each Other again. All . Until now. David more than 100 years later, ancestry helped connect us to our ancestors and Each Other. Why Bother Mastering something . Why handtune an Audio System . Why include the most advanced active Safety System in its class. Standard . 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Dont take kesimpta if you have hepatitis b, and tell your doctor if you have had it, as it could come back. Kesimpta can cause serious Side Effects, including infections. While no cases of pml were reported in rms clinical trials, it could happen. Tell your doctor if you had or plan to have vaccines, or if you are or plan to become pregnant. Kesimpta may cause a decrease in some types of antibodies. The most common Side Effects are upper respiratory tract infection, headache, and injection reactions. Ready for an Athome Treatment with dramatic results . Its time to ask your doctor about kesimpta. Welcome back to Politics Nation. I have a lot to get to with my political panel. So joining me now is tara setmayer, Senior Adviser to the Lincoln Project and former Gop Communications Director And Maya cummings, former chairman of the maryland democratic party, and founder, president , and ceo of global policy solutions. Let me start with yesterdays socalled rally in support of January 6ths insurrectionists, which has which it was sparsely attended, and im being kind. But thankfully, it was largely peaceful. Congressman Jamie Raskin was on my colleagues show last night. Heres how he characterized Donald Trumps hold on the party. Donald trump now exercises the authority over the gop that Jim Jones exercised over the peoples baptist temple. It is like an authoritarian religious cult at this point. And it is terrifying that this used to be a major political party in america. The good news is the vast majority of The American people reject it, and are with the democratic party. Maya, do you think thats an accurate assessment . Do you see yesterdays failed rally as a sign that the Trump Wing of the party has alienated most of the country . Absolutely not. I think that we do need another major political party in this country and i do think that Congressman Raskin is right that this is the cult of personality that follows trump with regards to the gop. But, you know, the fact of the matter is that trump is still ascendant in the republican party. And the republican party is using blatant lies and political retaliation and theyre continuously pushing oppressive policies, in addition to encouraging violence in order to hold on to political power. The republican party has shown itself unfit to rule over a diverse democracy like we have. And unfortunately, they have longterm goals for pushing this kind of approach. Its not unlike, rev its not unlike the Lost Cause where they basically push blatant lies in order to justify oppressive and violence tactics to hold on to political power, because they had a minority position. We see the republican party right now actually, i think, laying the foundation for a multigenerational foundation of lies that can justify their minority rule, not unlike apartheid south africa, over a nation that doesnt agree with them for generations to come. And we have to be very careful. Were at an incredibly important time in history. Now, that mob on January 6th, infamously, shannon, their intention to hang Mike Pence for refusing to overturn the certified election results. But a new book by Bob Woodward and Robert Costa shows how close pence came to trying to do the president s bidding. According to the book, in the days leading up to the election certification, pence called former Vice President Dan Quayle to ask about the process. Quayle apparently shut him down saying, quote, you have no power, so just forget it. Tara, how badly compromised is the republican party when even his socalled responsible members have threaded that openly with authoritarianism . I mean, its quite obvious that the people who we thought were supposed to be the guardrails within the republican party abandoned that position years ago. They sold their souls for political expediency, and to continue to, you know, to use a term cult, ive been using that for years, to join this cult of personality that Donald Trump has amassed, because theyre worried about the political consequences. This is selling out our democracy and our institutions. You know, i dont think many people thought that Dan Quayle would be someone, especially my friends on the left, who think that Dan Quayle was someone that would turn up to be a hero in telling Mike Pence to do the right thing. The fact that Mike Pence, as the Vice President of the united states, as someone who used to be a, you know, a constitutionalist and brag about his conservative bona fides, would actually need to seek counsel with so many different people to tell him that this Cockamamy Attempt to overturn a dually elected president the fact that he would even want to ask, i mean, is so disturbing. Thats right its the insanity of all of that, just demonstrates to you that Mike Pence has no spine and he never did. Donald trump had no respect for him anyway. It didnt matter what he did. And the level of bsequiousness that Mike Pence demonstrated to Donald Trump, it was to the level of ad nauseam. That he was even willing to find a way to undermine the constitution to please his master. And thank god there were people who were not elected officials but republicans like Dan Quayle and others, even Lindsey Graham, for goodnesss sake, and we can spend a whole segment on Lindsey Graham, but even Lindsey Graham told Mike Pence, theres no way to do this. What youre asking us to do here is unconstitutional. You have to abide by the constitution. At least he did it, but he is Persona Non Grata right now. Mike pence is Persona Non Grata with the trump crowd. Even as he made these calls trying to find out if he can accommodate him, hes still Persona Non Grata. I want to quickly discuss immigration. The Refugee Crisis is not going to go away, as we saw thousands, the thousands of haitians who came to texas this week, something im very concerned about, how are we going to deal with it. The biden administration has announced plans to begin deportations. But as Climate Disasters multiply in frequency and intensity, this problem will only intensify in the coming years. Maya, what should the biden administration be doing about immigration for these haitians, for the thousands of refugees already awaiting hearings and for those who will be displaced in the future . People who voted for Joe Biden want to see clear, consistent, and humanitarian policies with regards to refugees who are seeking to stay in the united states or to come to the united states. And theyre frankly confused by the policies of the biden administration. On the one hand, we see the biden administration actually in court, supporting a Trump Policy that seeks to actually turn away refugees based on covid19. And on the other hand, we see the biden administration saying that we need comprehensive immigration reform. On the one hand, we see that theyre trying to deport haitian immigrants in texas. And on the other hand, we know that just recently, they gave those Undocumented Haitians in the united states temporary protected status. So theres an unclear positioning of the biden administration on this, and they need to be clear and they need to be consistent and they need to be humanitarian. And ive got to say this. If theres anyone, any people thats deserving of protection, its haitians. Because in the last decade or so, they have experienced three large earthquakes and major hurricanes and certainly, the assassination of a president and the weakening of a government and the rise of gangland style violence. And so we need to know from the biden administration what do they stand on . Are they america first with trump, or are they looking to support the future with more inclusiveness and humanitarianism. And we dont even have to go to the last decade. The last two month, a president assassinated, a hurricane followed by a tropical storm. Many people deserve some humanitarian consideration. And not trumplike, its the people in haiti. Lastly and briefly on the topic of vaccines, we talked a little bit about it yesterday, about some celebrity misinformation. I dont want to rehash all of that here, but i will point out to a star taking a different approach. This morning, Chris Rock tweeted that hed been diagnosed with covid and urged his followers to get vaccinated. Tara, briefly, please, how much sway do celebrities really have when it comes to Vaccination Rates . Unfortunately, a lot more than they should. I think that some celebrities are irresponsible with their Influence And Weve seen that as of late. Im not going to relitigate that, either. But we should give the ones who are doing the right Thing Credit for saying and doing the right thing and be responsible with their celebrities. Im glad to see that Chris Rock did that. And unfortunately, you know, politics is downstream from culture. And you know, we live in a different Day And Age in the way we communicate and who actually holds as much influence as they do, its not doctors and experts, apparently, anymore, its celebrity. And thats, i think, a conversation that we need to have as a society, about where we place emphasis and importance on things like science and who should we be listening to, it would be nice and we can get back to trusting expertise. Tara Setmayer And Maya rocky moore cummings, thank you both for being on tonight. Coming up, float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. Im talking about none other than the legend, Muhammad Ali. Its a challenge to document that kind of greatness on camera. But my next guests were up for the assignment. That after the break. For the assignment that after the Break Welcome to allstate. Where you can pay a little less and enjoy the ride a little more. Now, get new lower Auto Rates with allstate. Because better protection costs a whole lot less. Youre in good hands with allstate. Click or call for a lower Auto Rate today. [ ] youre in good hands if you have diabetes, its important to have confidence in the nutritional drink you choose. Try boost glucose control. Its clinically shown to help manage Blood Sugar levels and contains high Quality Protein to help manage Hunger And Support muscle health. Try boost today. When subway® opened they changed the fast food game. But sometimes you gotta refresh. To be fresh. Welcome to the eat fresh refresh. Refresh where there is so much new, some say that it Cant Fit in one ad. I say. Were talking a new allamerican club, delistyle ovenroasted turkey and. Oh, thats the new steak cheese. Oh yeah, i knew that. Thats the one with the new. Seasoning. And that was the new mvp parmesan vinaigrette. Right. Which makes a next level foot. Hold up. The Subway Logo . In 2016, i was working at the Amazon Warehouse wait im out of time . When my brother passed away. And a couple of years later, my mother passed away. After taking care of them, i knew that i really wanted to become a nurse. Amazon helped me with training and tuition. Today, im a medical assistant and im studying to become a registered nurse. In filipino youll always be in my heart. Muhammad ali was an activist who fought in a certain way. There was going to be an enormous price to pay for that. Boxing was this much of his evolution. The person who he is today is way bigger. The price of freedom comes high. I have paid, but i am free. The butterfly, the Peoples Champ or simply the greatest. Muhammad ali continues to be the benchmark by which athletic prowess, activist passion, and both are measured, and the story of his rise in boxing, his religious refusal to fight in the vietnam war, and the legendary wars he fought to win the heavyweight crown, and unmatched three times have been told to exhaustion, even before his death in 2016. Enter emmy awardwinning Filmmaker Ken burns, whos latest Pbs Documentary premiering tonight ties up all of those threads and then looks at the man behind the name, Huma Abedin Muhammad Ali. Joining me now, Ken And Sarah burns. Thank you both for being here. Im excited to have you here ahead of the Premiere Tonight and of the first part of the pbs series, simply titled Muhammad Ali. Before we go to the film itself, i want to share something with our audience that i shared with ken and then come back with a personal reflection on what i think is the greatest. James brown, Muhammad Ali is the reverend Al Sharpton. A man like he didnt have a father at home, but i had a James Brown to look up, who would want to sing and dance like him, or Muhammad Ali, who would Stand Up, and i would have a right to come 10 or 20 years later and try to fight for my kids. I think its awful weak to tell the kids, you can be a James Brown, when the greatest entertainer, and me, one of the greatest fighters. That was 40 years ago, sara. I was 26, in this building, 30 rockefeller center, and James Brown and Muhammad Ali brought me on to say that this young man is moving a lot of young people in the right direction. I knew Muhammad Ali and i got to do a lot of things with him over the years, and ive told you out of a lot of things ive seen, what you and ken have done on this comes very, very close to really giving the public that this man was a real human being, with a real love for human beings. And thats why i was happy to have you on the night its premiering. And so as someone who came into the socalled golden era of hollywood boxing, i can say subjectively that ali transcended the sport. Five years after his death, why does the persona still captivate the world 40 years after he left the ring . Ill go in reverse, starting with the younger burns generation. Sara . I think he still captivates, because he was so much bigger than boxing. And the boxing is why we know him, why weve gotten to know him. That was his platform, but he was about so much more than that. She shared that love with everyone that he met and left this indelible impression on people. I think we also remember him because of his courage and his insistence on being free, on being himself at all times. And that courage and that freedom is something that i think billions of people have been influenced by and learn something from. And ken, i want to get your response from this credit from the series, where you have one great nba legend, Kareem Abduljabbar, talking about the great and a pivotal moment in sports where they were both a part of a that they were both a part of. Lets just roll the clip, please. I saw in Muhammad Alis character, the willingness to take on the burdens of all black americans in confronting the racism that we all have to deal with. He was willing to take that on. And i wanted to support him in that. To me, it felt just like i felt about jackie robinson. You know, i watched him when i was a little boy and it seemed to me that Muhammad Ali just took up that mantle. Ken, can you contextualize that speech a bit for us. What this moment just described by abduljabbar was like for the champ . Well, you know, it was a conference in cleveland. Jim brown sort of assembled it. The attempt was to find out where he was at with this refusal in the draft and carry a Back Room possible deal from the Johnson Administration to kind of avoid the controversy of it. And they came away totally convinced of his religious sincerity. And Bill Russell said, you know, im worried about the rest of us. Im not worried about Mohammad Ali. But this is important that Kareem Abduljabbar understood the essence of Who Ali was. As sara said, this is a story about freedom and for a black man, a black person to try to escape the specific gravity of white intolerance and White Supremacy over the last 402 years, is really difficult. He did it and he didnt forget where he came from. Thats the context. This is as good a Story In American History as we have. And its right to bring up jackie robinson, the subject of a film that sara and her husband, David Mcmahon and i made together, because both men are redefining Black Masculinity and black manhood, and also courage for an entire generation. Now, ken, as a documentarian, you have to sift through massive amounts of things in a persons life. In the case of Muhammad Ali, you have one of the most iconic athletes in modern history. And i wonder what you feel like you learned in the course of making these films that makes you feel diverts from the general depiction of the greatest . The Fist Thing we had at our side is we work with Public Broadcasting that gives us a time to do it, and the time on screen to do it. So we can do a deep dive. We looked at 15,000 photographs. We looked at hundreds and hundreds of hours of footage with him and did our own interviews and you whittle it down and what permits you to do is also avoid the pitfalls of that super conventional wisdom. Hes only bragging in the early days and later hes silenced by parkinsons. You find incredible wisdom in those early years that i think belie the popular opinion of this guy whos the Gaseous Cassius or the louisville lip. We found that just stunned us. When the Supreme Court let him go from his sentence for draft for refusing induction, he speaks not about his victory, but he speaks all of the people that hes worried about that will have injustice done to them. I dont know whos going to be assassinated tonight, i dont know who will be enslaved and denied justice and equality. Its an incredible speech. And the time it took to find those kind of gems and pepper the entire rhythm of this with not just the fights, not just the personal journey, but some of these gems. Sarah, briefly, the idea i mentioned before, that ali was as a culture hero, because while younger generations might understand the weight of what he did in infusing the induction to fight in vietnam, but when he joined the Nation Of Islam under the guidance of his then close friend, malcolmx, changing his name just after winning the most visible Sports Prize in the world at that time, that was huge. I was 15 years younger than him. It really framed a lot after how we looked at things culturally. And i know ali regretted the way his relationship with malcolmx ended, just before mr. Malcolm was assassinated. How would you characterize that relationship, having seen it come together in that film . His relationship with malcolmx was hugely influential in his life. He was a young man when he first discovered the Nation Of Islam, initially through the record of white mans heaven is a black Mans Hell as he listened to over and over again as a teenager. And when he moved to miami to train, he met Malcolm X through the Nation Of Islam. And malcolm became an older brother, Mentor Figure to him. And they became very close. They spent time Malcolm X. And his family came down to miami they visited Each Other. Yeah. I think its important that people that just get the superficial things see that Human Thread and its done very well in this documentary. Ken and sarah burns, thank you both. The Fourpart Documentary airs september 19th, thats today, through the 22nd at 9 00 p. M. Eastern on pbs. Up next, my final thoughts. Stay with us. Ext, my final ouths stay with us the best Things America makes are the Things America makes out here. The history she writes in her clear blue skies. The legends she births on Home Town fields. And the future she promises. 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