Ana geardadas filling in for The One And Only ali velshi. Were live in New York where members of the u. N. Are arriing in a few hours. In a little over 24 hours, President Biden is set to travel here for the first united Nations Assembly of his president. Could be a contentious few days. In addition to the ongoing covid19 pandemic, which is once again taking the lives of more than 2,000 americans per day, this years general assembly comes just weeks after the calamitous u. S. Withdrawal from afghanistan. And days after the biden administration admitted, calling It A, quote, mistake, that a recent Drone Strike in afghanistan intended for isisk members killed zero terrorists, but instead, ten innocent civilians, including seven children. Things also remain contentious on capitol hill. If you want to get a sense of whats at stake in the days and weeks ahead, the New York times sums it up pretty well with this headline this morning. Quote, bidens entire president ial agenda rests on expansive spending bill. Lawmakers return this week and have a long list of Agenda Items to work on. Top among them, President Bidens massive 3. 5 trillion Spending Package and the bipartisan 1 Trillion infrastructure bill, which is separate legislation. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is expected to hold a vote on the infrastructure bill, which has already passed the senate this week, and a vote on bidens larger Spending Package by The End of the month. Although that legislation is widely expected to be altered and revised in the senate. But the situation is far from that simple. Centrist democrats in the senate, particularly West Virginias Joe Manchin, continue to be opposed to the size of bidens Spending Package, saying its too big and needs to be cut down. And without Manchins Vote or any other senators vote, democrats cant pass the package through budget reconciliation. Although Manchins Demand remain at odds with the progressive wing of the party, who are threatening to hold up a vote on the bipartisan Fracture Deal until the larger package has a vote. Joining me now, national correspondent for the washington post, philip bump. Philip, is there any plan in the senate to get around what might be called the Joe Manchin problem . I dont know that theres been a plan since essentially Joe Biden took office. This has been a known consideration. Basically, as soon as the two democrats won the georgia special election, instantaneous recognizing, okay, Joe Manchin is now the most powerful person in the senate. He is the key, that Pivot Point between the democrats and the republicans. He represent answer extremely red state, theyre lucky they have a democrat there as all. And he holds all the cards. Kyrsten sinema is in a purple state, so its unusual that shes straddling the divide there next to Joe Manchin. Theres nothing that she can do except hopes that Joe Manchin ends up being happy. Hes very much in a position of leverage. As season who covers the Decision Space that around these folks, do you think Joe Manchin, Senator Manchin, is representing the interests of West Virginia, the preferences and tastes of folks in West Virginia around some of the issues in this legislation, access to community college, things on Health Care, things on climate. Is he in step with his public, or is he working for forces unseen. This is a fundamental question about American Politics right now, right . The extent to which there is legislation which is put forward, which will have, you know, not necessarily speaking, specifically, but every aspect of this package, but things which will obviously ameliorate conditions for a lot of americans. But, however, run contrary to core fundamental political philosophies. So we see, for example, this tension which has played out over the course of the past several decades, between expanding new Government Spending and this philosophy that government should be as small as possible, right . Theres an iteration of this. Joe manchin feels that he has put forward and he feels like there is too much spending in this bill. There is ant clear answer to the question of, well, how much is okay, Joe Manchin . Hes certainly come back with some proposals. But this is the fundamental question. Are you going to pass legislation that you believe in and has experts lining up saying, this will actually help people in very specific Way Farce long time. Or are you going to be like, okay, well, were actually more concerned about what Government Spending looks like, which is a philosophical argument. This is been part of American Politics for years now, and Joe Manchin is reflecting that in the way in which hes speaking out about his proposals. Philip bump, sitting in front of a scoreboard that will be an incredibly useful tool in the coming days. Thank you so much for joining us. And joining me now is Reverend Dr. William barber. Hes the cochairman of the poor peoples campaign. The president and Senior Lecturer for repairs of the breach. An architect of moral mondays. Reverend barber and his teams have been putting the pressure on senator Joe Manchin, and starting today, are running this add in newspapers across the country. Asking senator Joe Manchin, which side are you on . Reverend dr. Barber, i wanted to ask you. You have spent time in West Virginia. You have led gatherings, marches, in West Virginia. Given at the senator from that state remains right now the Principle Obstacle to this giant package of social help, was it your impression from traveling in West Virginia that Government Assistance would be damaging to the people of West Virginia, as Senator Manchin clearly seems to worry . Well, no, It Actually would be helpful. 700,000 people in West Virginia are poor and nowealth. One of the things im concerned about, though, as your guest just mentioned, you keep saying West Virginia is a red state. It really is not. Its an unorganized state. Its a state where poor and lowwealth people have not been inspired and that holds the key to changing who sits in the senate and the governors race. The majority of the people in West Virginia dont agree with whats hes doing. And weve got to learn for somebody like him, you have to touch him in his state. When we first marched on him over 800 people to his doorstep, with people that looked like him, black and white, people from the hood to the holler, the next day he came out with his compromise on Voting Rights. You have to go where he is. You have to expose how what hes doing is hurting minors and hurting women, and hurting children and hurting the disabled, right in his own state. And thats what we intend to continue to do. Reverend, you are one of those people who are deft at working the outside game and the inside game. While you run these adds and lead these protests, have you had conversations with Senator Manchin, and do you understand his calculus From The Inside . We were the first group that met with him, but we didnt go in by ourselves. We went in with 12 people from West Virginia who were lowwealth people. Thats when he came out and said, i want a living wage. I want to start at 11, a few weeks ago when we had a caravan, he made a big effort to go to the ap and say, no, i want a living wage. He can be moved, but he has to be moved from inside the state. He has to be moved by people that look like him. You know, hes a calculating fellow, but hes not unmovable. And what we have to do is stand tall. And some of what has to happen is the house has to hold the line. The 160 plus member of the black caucus and the Progressive Caucus will have to unify and say, you arent going to get what you want, mr. Manchin, unless you move on these other things. And then we cant let him win certain things. For instance, right now, in this voting Rights Bill that they have put out, do you know inside that bill for the first time in the history of this country, it codifies a lot. It says that voter i. D. Is necessary for voter integrity, Voter Confidence and access. That has to come out. That Cant Stay in there. Theres a lot of good things in that bill, but thats the trump lie, the insurrection lie, the extremist lie. And its got to be moved. You have to push manchin hard. You have to move in his state. Thats why were not only running these ads, but were preparing for sitins and other forms of nonviolent Civil Disobedience in his state, in his own office. We dont intend to turn back. We learned in moral monday, you have to do it from the bottomup and you have Toot It in the states. Thats what we did in North Carolina and what well have to do in West Virginia. Reverend, because i think this legislation is so sweeping and so much of the Biden Program has been pushed into this one thing, a lot of people consumed by a pandemic and by their own lives dont really necessarily know what is in it for them yet. So i want you, having spent time in the state of West Virginia, if you were to imagine a kind of median constituent of senator Joe Manchin, a median person in the state of West Virginia, not unlike people in your state and elsewhere in this country, can you rattle off the list of the things that would change in that Persons Life from the cradle to the grave, because of this proposed legislation . Your Health Care would change. The impact of climate would change. The investment into the community would change. Those things would change. It would have an impact on every economic aspect of your life. And thats one of the things that democrats have got to do. Lets stop arguing about the dollar. Because a country that spent 21 Trillion in war since 9 11 cannot Say It doesnt have the money. And 84 of the money that we spent for covid relief went to businesses and corporations. We treat corporations like people and people like things. What we need to do, and they need to have people who will be impacted. Black people, white people, brown people, natives, asians. Let them stand with legislators and tell their stories. And then present what this bill does. Dont just put the number, that 3 Trillion over ten years, but talk about what it does for Health Care. What it does for clean water. What it does for jobs. What it does for infrastructure. What it does to help relieve debt. And so make this a moral issue. We have actually said to the president , we are petitioning him and we said to him, he needs to sit with the religious leaders of this country, not just black, he needs to sit with poor and lowwealth people, some of our economists and Voting Rights experts and come together with impacted people. And then say, we have to have a moral reset. In other words, there are three infrastructures weve got to protect. The infrastructure of our democracy, which is Voting Rights. The infrastructure of our daily lives, which is Health Care and living wages and clean water and the infrastructure of our roads, bridges and those things, technology. And you cannot do one without the other. So were praying with the president. Sit down with this group, then go to West Virginia. Thats your state. You the president. Go to arizona, go to texas. And then go to the well of the congress and make the case, not starting with the money, but starting with the mandates and who will be helped and who will be lifted up from the bottom up. And that way, we can change this from just being about dollars to a moral issue and a values issue, and if we do that, the public will rally behind us. And i believe we can change even manchin. After 20 years, reverend, of claims to be spreading Democracy And Nation building abroad, what you seem to be advocating is spreading Democracy And Nation building here in the united states. Thank you so much, Reverend Dr. William barber for joining us. And joining me now, democratic Representative Sean Castin of illinois. Hes a member of multiple committees, including the select committee on the climate crisis. In fact, he went viral in july, which is even more prestigious than being in congress, with legislation about what the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission or ferc, when he declared It A hot Ferc Summer to the tune of ferglicious by fergie. Congressman, were talking about the world, the leaders of the world descending on New York, this week and it has been an embarrassment for the united states to have been. At certain moments, a leader on climates, but at many moments, a laggard on climate. What are you seeing about the case for the odds that the united states will actually resume meaningful leadership on climate, as we continue to learn just how dire the prospect of inaction is. I think you give us a lot of credit that were in a leadership position. The last time that the u. S. Was truly at the edge of leadership policy, you have to go back to the montreal protocol. And interestingly enough, the Reagan And Bush administration when we created a global Trade Program when we create as are we losing the congressman there . Okay. Yeah but she said, when the u. S. Doesnt wait, sometimes we have to isolate you on the naughty step. So we need to go back and establish a position of leadership. We have to establish that by what we do in the next month, not what the nice words that come out of our lips. We were talking about senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia, your colleague who this and many other issues remains the obstacle. Sort of selfstyled prime minister. What do you think is needs to happen for more moderate democrats who are more cautious, more in the pocket of big oil, if were speaking frankly. What needs to happen to get you aligned with where folks like you are on this issue . The heck of it is, if all you have to do is be greedy, because anything we do to celebrity the tradition to clean energy is an acceleration to a wealthier future, ask somebody who has a Solar Panel on their roof how much they paid for electricity yesterday. Ask someone who has an electric vehicle how much they paid for gasoline yesterday. And the the challenge that a manchin has is bracing a cheap energy fuel. Why is coal dying in West Virginia. Its dying because it cant compete economically. In the bill that we are trying to get through right now, we have 227 Billion of expand Tax Supports for clean energy, over ten years. Thats 27 Billion a year. Now, seen from one vantage point, that seems like a lot of money. The imf, international monetary fund, has calculated that the united states subsidizes the Fossil Fuel Industry in the united states to the tune of 650 Billion every year. Thats about as much as we spent on medicaid. The Fossil Fuel Industry in the united states cannot keep in a competitive market. So what the manchins need, what everybody in congress needs, is simply to embrace the markets that you claim to support and the challenge, to be fair, to Senator Manchin, is that that embracing is going to be hard for places that depend on fossil fuel extraction, that have not modernized their economy to the world were in right now. And shame on them for not having the leaders in their state advocating that transition. But we cant let the luddites hold us back. Congressman sean castin, democrat from illinois. Thank you. You made a compelling case for climate Action And Infrastructure pretending on better Broadband And Wifi in this country. Thank you for sticking it out with us. Coming up, the government is calling It A tragic mistake. You might have another name for it. And the Eviction Moratorium is much more than just a debate in the halls of congress. Well speak with someone who is living it. Then, the dress of A Thousand threads and twitter threads. Well discuss aocs met Gala Look and whether the democrats are listening or not listening to its rallying cry of taxing the rich. This is velshi. This is velshi what happens when we Welcome Change . We can make Emergency Medicine possible at 40,000 feet. Instead of burning our past for power, we can harness the energy of the tiny electron. We can create new ways to connect. Rethinking how we communicate to be more inclusive than ever. With app, cloud and anywhere workspace solutions, vmware helps companies navigate change. Faster. Vmware. Welcome change. It only takes a second for an everyday item to become dangerous. Tide Pods Childguard Pack helps keep your Laundry Pacs in a safe place and your child safer. To close, twist until it clicks. Tide Pods Childguard Packaging. Healthy habits come in all sizes. Like little walks. And, getting screened for Colon Cancer. Thats big because when caught in early stages, its more treatable. Hey, cologuard hi. Im noninvasive and i detect altered dna in your stool to find 92 of Colon Cancers, even in early stages. Early stages yep, its for people 45 plus at average risk for Colon Cancer, not high risk. False positive and negative results may occur. Ask your provider if cologuard is right for you. Count me in me too with Voltaren Arthritis Pain gel my husbands got his moves back. Count me in an alternative to pain Pills Voltaren is the first full Prescription Strength Gel for powerful arthritis pain relief. Voltaren the joy of movement introducing xfinity rewards. Our very own way of thanking you just for being with us. Enjoy rewards like Movie Night specials. Xfinity mobile benefits. And exclusive experiences, like the chance to win tickets to see watch what happens live. Hey its me. The longer youve been with us. The more rewards you can get. Like sharpening your Cooking Skills with a top chef. Join for free on the Xfinity App and watch all the rewards float in. Our thanks. Your rewards. It started with a shocking confession. U. S. Marine general Kenneth Mckenzie announced friday that he was responsible for the erroneous Drone Attack that killed ten innocent people near kabul in the final days of the u. S. Evacuation. Now, the family of the deceased is demanding Justice And Help resettling after the attack left them without their primary Bread Winner and exposed them to taliban retaliation. Zemarai ahmadi, an Aide Worker deployed by a u. S. Nonprofit, working of on all Things Nutrition was killed alongside his Furniture Soninlaw and seven children after being suspected of ties to isisk back in august. Further investigations showed that ahmadi and the others had canisters of water in their car that were mistaken for explosives. Water. And the ahmadis had no connection to isis. On friday, general mckenzie announced that the pentagon was in consultation with the office of the secretary of defense, discussing Potential Payment to the family for their loss. But if the u. S. Now believes we should pay reparation to the families of innocent victims killed by our military forces, there are many, many others waiting in line. The botched August 29th Drone Strike is hardly the first time the u. S. Has mistakenly killed innocent people in its rudderless war on terror. According to the New York times, the u. S. Has admitted to Killing Hundreds of civilians since it invaded afghanistan in 2001, dozens were killed at a wedding in afghanistans southern Kandahar Province in 2002. More than 100 innocent people died in a strike on Fara Province in 2009. In 2016, 42 doctors, patients, and medical staff were killed when a u. S. Bomb hIt A hospital in the kundis province. There are doubtless many, many more that are unaccounted for. Mistakes, in quotes, that have never been officially or publicly acknowledged, let alone atoned for. So the question with apologies to Bob Dylan is, how many mistakes must the nation walk back before you call It A war crime. And what reasonable expectation can any of these families have for justice . These families have for justice . Its not just for kids. Whooping cough is highly contagious for people of any age. And it can cause violent uncontrollable coughing fits. Ask your Doctor Or Pharmacist about whooping Cough Vaccination because its not just for kids. vo at tmobile for business, unconventional thinking whooping Cough Vaccination means we see things differently, so you can focus on what matters most. Whether its ensuring food arrives as fresh as when it departs. Being first on the scene, when every second counts. Or teaching biology without a lab. We are the leader in 5g. 1 in customer satisfaction. And a partner who includes 5g in every plan, so you get It All. 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But the Supreme Court Subsequently blocked Bidens Action at The End of action. Some states put in place their own protections, but in others, evictions are back underway. There are few experiences more traumatic than becoming and being homeless in america. And today, there are nearly 11 Million renters in america behind on their rent, and 750,000 people in danger of being evicted right now. Joining me now is john brown. Last year, john and his family were evicted from their home in kansas city, missouri. Hes traveling to d. C. This week with a group of people who have recently been evicted or fallen behind on rent, to meet with Government Officials and call attention americas current eviction problem. John, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for sharing your story with us. Can you just start off by telling our viewers on this Sunday Morning what happened to you in very personal terms. How did you come to be evicted, and what happened to your life after that. To you, to your family, to your work life, and beyond. Well, back in march of last year, during the pandemic, my business slowed down greatly and my partner lost her job. And our landlord put us out. I tried to support my family by being a good worker. It wasnt enough doing doordash and postmates. And being poor is very expensive in america. We had to stay in a hotel for months, just me and my daughter and my partner. My other two kids stayed with friends and family and we were paying 100 a night to stay in a hotel. Its very expensive being poor. It ended up costing everything, you know . How old are your children and how do you explain to them whats happening in your life right now . Im sorry, im saying, how old are your children and how do you explain to them whats going on . I have two of them that are in college now sorry, all three are in college now, apologies. Its been devastating because, you know, ive not been able to provide a home for them and security is just out of this world, due to something thats not my fault, you know . Its the pandemic. I was looking at, in connection with your case and other cases, you know, the Supreme Court is the one thaended up standing in judgment about whether or not people like you deserve help or not. They decided you didnt. And i was looking into some of their finances. And it turns out from these disclosure forms that they have to submIt About their assets that their financial picture generally looks quite different than yours. Theres some multimillion nars on that court as well as very, very wehle people. Since they dont seem to understand the lives of you, what would you say to those Supreme Court justices and other Decision Makers in congress and the White House about what they need towns about your life and what youre trying to do for your family right now . I want to say that im appalled and shocked that america cares more about its profits than its people. And you know, im from the showme state. And what theyve shown me, what ive seen, is that theyre buying corporations before its people. And im just appalled. These programs dont work. I applied for unemployment. I never got it. I applied for ppe loans, i never got it. You know, but these businesses have gotten bailed out every time. They dont pay taxes, but we do. Where is my check . Where is our bailout . Where is our help that these programs that theyre providing arent working. I want to know why. What are they going to do . I would like to believe that President Biden is watching this right now in a bathrobe, drinking some coffee. Tell the president what he needs to hear, what he needs to do from your standpoint . President biden, help, first of all. Its too late for me and my family. Youve already been evicted. Its on my record. The damage has already been done. But we need help here, you know. With 90 of the money has been ear marked to help us, why is it not being spent . Why is it not being doled out. Why have corporations been helped first before assistance . Thats my question. John brown, a powerful and resonant name in the state that you come from, thank you so much for joining us and showing up on a Sunday Morning and telling your story. Good luck in washington. Thanks for your time. Coming up, one u. S. Community is feeling particularly dubious about getting their covid19 vaccine, and the group may surprise you. Well discuss Vaccine Hesitancy and the path forward. This is velshi. Tancy and the Pathor Fward this is velshi. Breyers is as so delicious. I can tell that they used your milk, matilda. Great Job Moo youre welcome. Breyers natural vanilla is made with 100 grade a Milk And Cream and only sustainably farmed vanilla. Better starts with breyers. Limu Emu Doug got a couple of bogeys on your six, limu. 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But in some latino communities, there is still some Vaccine Hesitancy. Many factors are at play, including disinformation, pushed in some cases by political or religious leaders, and fears about missing Work Due to Side Effects, among other things. Nbc News Correspondent Antonia Hilton zeros in on a Texas Suburb combatting exactly those challenges. Reporter just outside austin, texas, snappy snacks is known for supplying Food Truck operators with ingredients, ice, and now vaccines. Paul saldania leads the latino coordination, a Grassroots Group of operators that join with snappy snacks to meet highrisk latinos where they are. We have parts that have no infrastructure, no health clinics, no pharmacies. Its been quite a challenge for our people to get access to the vaccine. Reporter latinos make up just under 50 of covidrelated deaths here, even though theyre only about a third of the population of austin. Are they the type of workers who can afford to miss a couple of days of work after they get the Vaccine Shot . No, and thats another reason why people have been most hesitant. Reporter what has you hesitant to take the vaccine . My father, for example, he took both shots and got real bad with Covid A Month later. Im waiting to see it out. Reporter but for people like reynaldo and rosa, the Patience And Persistence of these groups has finally moved the needle. Our thanks to Nbc News correspondent Antonia Hilton for that report. Coming up, the everyone is talking about aocs met gala dress. But whats it going to take to get Tax Hikes on the rich from a dress to the text of law. And then, what do we need to do to make sure rich people and corporations actually pay . More on that, next. This is velshi. We can transform our workforce overnight out of convenience, or necessity. We can explore uncharted waters, and not only make new discoveries, but get there faster, with better outcomes. With app, cloud and anywhere workspace solutions, vmware helps companies navigate change meeting them where they are, and getting them where they want to be. Faster. Vmware. Welcome change. Water . hey you catch mio. Thank you water tastes like, well. Water. So we fixed it. Mio. Age is just a number. And mines unlisted. Try boost® High Protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health. Versus 16 grams in ensure High Protein. Boost® High Protein also has key nutrients for immune support. Boost® High Protein. At usaa, weve been called too exclusive. Because we were created for officers. But as weve evolved with the military, weve grown to serve all whove honorably served. No matter their rank, or when they were in. A marine just out of basic, or a petty officer from 73. And even his kids. And their kids. Usaa is made for all whove honorably served and their families. Are we still exclusive . Absolutely. And thats exactly why you should join. This is the sound of an asthma attack. 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You can buy a ticket for 35,000 or a table for 300,000. One table for one night for the low price of five times the median Family Income in america. And at that event, the Queens Lawmaker wore a dress that spelled out in big letters, tax the rich. As you can imagine, it sparked a lot of reaction from supporters, from republicans, from leftists, and even from the president , who tweeted the next day, its time for the superwealthy and big corporations to pay their fair share in taxes. To make good on that pledge, President Biden has unveiled 3. 6 trillion of new taxes on the rich and big corporations, raising the top income Tax Rate, raising the corporate Tax Rate, raising the tax on Capital Gains over 1 million, and raising the inheritance tax, in order to expand the social safety bills. Joining me now to dig into this discussion of taxing the rich is nick hanour, with Second Avenue partners. And a rare example of a rich guy who wants to tax the rich more. As well as dorothy brown, shes an Awardwinning Professor of Tax Law, Visiting Georgetown law this semester. And also the author of the whiteness of wealth. How the Tax System impoverishes black americans and how we can fix it. Nick, im going to start with you. The tax the rich dress, as everything in america now, prompted a furious range of emotions. You had moderates and folks on the right call It A kind of performative gesture while, you know, aoc was at this fancy gala that she actually explained she has some Oversight Role in the new York Arts institution as a congresswoman. You also had folks on the left saying, this is empty, this is just hanging out with rich people instead of legislating, even though shes also trying to legislate. But from where i sit, its quite an art, where you can get the whole country to talk about your big idea, isnt it . I loved the address, annan. I have to tell you, hanging out with rich people is my jam. And i cant tell you how many people told me how decisive they thought that dress was, which is really remarkable. The 2. 5 trillion a year thats been redistributed from the bottom 90 to the top 1 , thats not decisive. But the dress is. So i loved the dress. I thought it was really appropriate. Dorothy, i wanted to ask you about this is a drum youve been beating for some time, pointing out the ways in which the Tax Code perpetuates systemic injustice. Do you sense that the conversation in america on this question is shifting . Do you sense that the arguments that youre making about the need to redress these injustices through a differently organized Tax Code, are they catching on . Is the dress reflective of a turning conventional wisdom in america, or at least on the political left half of the country . So i think the ideas are catching on, but they havent caught fire yes. So the dress was fire, yes . The dress is why were talking about this. So god bless the representative. And i think its really important to go back to what nick said. Whats divisive is a Tax System that causes black americans to pay higher taxes than White Americans when they engage in the same activity. Whats divisive is lowerincome americans paying a higher Tax Rate than jeff bezos. Thats divisive. But we dont call that divisive, right . Its insane i could not agree more. I could not agree more. Annan, i just go ahead. Go ahead. I wanted to ask you, nick, you not only are rich, but you said you occasionally or frequently hang out with rich people. Can you explain to folks, regular viewers watching this morning, some of the tricks that rich people use to not pay taxes. Because its not only a matter of the rates being low, which President Biden is proposing to address, but its an issue, as propublica revealed with this recent report on how little some of the richest folks pay, were talking about folks who pay billionaire who is pay zero in federal Income Tax in some calendar years, which i would imagine 99 of people watching me right now pay more than that. But Elon Musk and mike bloomberg, warren buffett, some of these folks pay just very, very low rates. How do your rich friends do it . Yeah, well, i mean, theyre there are a lot of of course, there are lots of ways, but the two best examples of the big difference is, first, that rich people dont earn income in the swam that middle class people do. The vast majority of our income as a consequence of Capital Gains, which are taxed at roughly half the rate that income is. And thats the first injustice. Carried interest is also taxed at Capital Gains rates, too. But the other gain you can play, of course, is with a big set of assets like appreciated stock, you can just borrow money against that for your lifestyle. And because youre not selling anything, youre not paying any taxes. I mean, eventually, youll have to pay taxes. But you certainly dont in the interim. And for people like bezos and musk or people with billions of dollars of appreciated stock assets, thats a game thats super ease to play. And obviously, very unfair and we should find a way to address it. But i want to make one more point. Following up on dorothys comment, the truth is that we have come far in terms of getting on top of these issues. Ive been fighting this fight for a long time. And the difference in approach in the biden administration versus the Obama Administration is chalk and cheese. The biden administration at least dont buy that neoliberal nonsense that Tax Cuts for rich people create growth and raising wages kills jobs. They are not neoliberal and trying to do the right thing, in my opinion. I think we are living through a moment of churn, and so theres a lot more to talk about. Nick hanour and dorothy brown, please stay with us. I want to continue this important conversation after the break. Continue this important conversation after the break. Are the Things America makes out here. The history she writes in her clear blue skies. The legends she births on Home Town fields. And the future she promises. When we made grand wagoneer, proudly assembled in america, we knew no object would ever rank with the best things in this country. But we believed we could make something worthy of their spirit. Here you go, let me help you. But we believed we could make hi mr. Charles, we made you dinner. Ahh, thank you ready to eat . Yes i am Tide Pods Ultra Oxi one ups the Cleaning Power of liquid. Can it one up whatever theyre doing . For sure. Seriously . One up the power of liquid, one up the toughest stains. 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With an innovative Trading Platform full of customizable tools. Dedicated Trade Desk pros and a passionate Trader Community Sharing strategies right on the platform. Because we take trading as seriously as you do. Thinkorswim trading™ from td ameritrade. Back with me to continue our discussion on taxing the rich or not is nick hanour, hes a cofounder of Venture Partner capitals and joining me is dorothy brown, an Awardwinning Professor of Tax Law and the author of the whiteness of wealth, how Tax System impoverishes black americans and how we can fix it. Dorothy, i want to stake with that beautiful sidelined book jacket, which reinforces the thesis of the book. In recent years, and weve talked about it on this Show Today with the Uprisings Of Black Lives Matter, theres been a growing awareness of how policing affects the exent to which black Lives Matter matters in this society. There has been with covid some amount of ring about how Health Care disparities affect the extent to which black Lives Matter matter in this society. But you argue that a seemingly neutral thing that probably a lot of folks dont think of as being a race issue, the Tax Code, is a prime locust of injustice perpetrated against black people. Can you explain why that is . So the Tax Code does not have a separate Rate Structure for black americans and White Americans, but it operates in a system, an American Citizen where systemic racism is prevalent. So when black americans get married, when we own homes, when we get jobs, Tax Law subsidizes how White Americans get married, own homes, and have jobs, while Disadvantaging Black Americans doing the exact same thing. So embedded in how the Tax Law operates is Builtin Disadvantage for black americans . Nick, i want to ask you, youre i think youre joining us from down here on earth right now, but youre one of the only rich people who is not currently in space, it seems. Elon musk, not personally going up there, but sending his crew, tweeting a lot about it. As we saw in the earlier graphic, Elon Musk is like so many of these folks a tax avoider, paying in certain years less than 99 of people watching this broadcast right now, even though hes one of the richest people on the planet. Is it too literal and direct to suggest that in the era in which the federal government has pulled back from space exploration, rich people have found ingenious ways of Keeping Money that once would have gone to the federal government in their private coffers, that its no accident that some of that illhoarded wealth shows up in midlife crisis defining Space Travel. We used to buy ferraris and now we go to space. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, i think that the extraordinary levels of economic inequality that we have seen over the last 10 to 20 years and that continue to accelerate create all sorts of really, really crazy social pathologies. And you know, the musk bezos Space Race being, you know, again, it would be funny if it wasnt so sad. You know, the world is on fire and this is what these folks want to devote themselves to. Its just a shame. And i think that, you know, like you, i feel very strongly that we need to come together as a society and decide how the resources we create as a Society Flow to the problems that we think are most important. And you know, this idea that rich people are better Eve Allocators of capital and better at judging the kinds of problems that we should apply resources to, then democracy, i just i dont buy. I think its well, we used to fund Space Travel in this country through tax paying, and we now fund it through tax avoidance. Dorothy, before we have to go, i want to ask you, democrats, as we mentioned earlier have a bunch of proposals on the table to change Tax Law. I wonder from your the Point Of View of your advocacy, which two or things would significantly move needle to make this countrys workings more just . No much in what came out of the house ways and means Committee Welcome but something like what the president is suggesting, dealing with the huge loophole of stepped up basis on inherited property. We need to make sure that the wealthy get taxed on their appreciated assets and that we dont discriminate against labor by giving a low, preferential Tax Rate to income from stock. Its outrageous. Nick hanour and dorothy brown, thank you so much for joining us on this Sunday Morning. That does it for me. Thanks for watching this Sunday Morning. Ali velshi and his beautiful bald hea will be back here next weekend. The Sunday Sho with Jonathan Capehart starts right now. Its september 19th. Im Jonathan Capehart. This is the Sunday Show. This sunday, were left a Big Underwhelmed By the protest planned at the capitol yesterday. What was supposed to be a strong show of support for the insurrectionists ultimately attracted a small crowd of about 400 to 450, many of whom were journalists, bystanders, and counterprotesters. And when you couple that news with Governor Gavin newsoms resounding victory in the california recall election, it would appear that it was a good week for the defeat for defeating the lingering effects of trumpism. But think again. Extremists are still at large, Hell Bent on hijacking our democracy. Yesterday, Capitol Police arrested four protesters, one reportedly with a knife and this comes just days after a California Man was arrested outside the Democratic National Committee headquarters. He was found with multiple knives, a bayonet, and even a machete. To further the point that trumpism is still very much alive and well, ohio congressman anthony gonzalez, one of the few republicans who voted to impeach trump, announced he wouldnt be running for reelection, citing the toxic atmosphere in his party. The truth is the environment is very toxic. And especially, you know, the dynamic inside our own party,