Plan to get all fully vaccinated americans a third shot. That rollout was supposed to start next week. Here was dr. Fauci this morning. Are you expecting Pfizer Booster shots to be approved . You know, i dont Want To get ahead of the fda deliberations. The data that ive seen i believe strongly suggests that will be the case. Our position about at least planning for the eventuation we might have to give boosters. We have planned and are ready to go pending the decision thats made from a regulatory standPoint By the fda and their advisers. So here is what happens now. All of that is up to the full fda and the cdc who, throughout the coronavirus pandemic, have typically agreed with this committees nods of approval with the use of existing vaccines. Those vaccines, the fda said, are still effective, though, against severe disease and death. A third shot can increase immunity against the milder Breakthrough Infections and it all adds some uncertainty in terms of whAt The full Fda Committee is going to do. Let hes bring in to our coverage Infectious Disease physician, Founding Director of the center for emerging infectious Disease Policy and research at Boston University and lucky for us an Msnbc Contributor. The Founding Director of the national center for Disaster Preparedness and lucky for us an msnbc Public Health analyst. Doctor, just explain whAt This decision is today. Is this the last word on boosters . Nicolle, so not even the last word yet from this committee because i think thAt Today the charge was to answer the question about what are the Safety And Efficacy or effectiveness data supported for those over 16 for those over 12 rather. They found based on the data presented, the questions they were trying to answer where is immunity waning for these groups . And theres clear evidence for those in israel and those under 60 may be at risk and trying to answer the question are we trying to prevent infections or prevent severe illness because preventing infections reduces transmissions, and is that going to make a difference in changing the course of the pandemic . Theres a lot of back and forth. They felt there wasnt enough evidence there. The last was for the younger population, was there a balance in terms of Safety Versus Benefit . Was there enough safety data for third doses for older teenagers and those in their 20s . Now the committee has voted down the larger question, they will go back and answer the question whether those over 60 or 65 and those with medical conditions or high occupational risks such as Health Care workers, may be those getting the booster first. Dr. Bhadelia, you raise an interesting point. It appeared thAt The White House was saying to stop the spread of the very dangerous and changing Delta Variant, stopping infections is a worthwhile goal and thats whAt They were pointing toward. If the committee is looking at a different goal, stopping disease and death, it seems like maybe this isnt the blow that it appears at first blush. Maybe these are misaligned policy aims. Yes, and i think we sort of there are. And thats what it is, right . Its not just a scientific question. Its also a policy aid. And the answer to this is basically Coming Up with what are we trying to achieve with these vaccines and what will be the greatest benefit . I think they can it would be pretty rare for the fda not to take the recommendations, but well see what happens particularly when, as you said, sometimes the Policy Questions are different than the medical questions that are in front of the Fda Committee because in their mind the scientific data is not enough to make that decision. And thats the charge they were given. Doctor, your reaction to the Breaking News . Well, i agree with dr. Bhadelia. It is a very complex question with lots of conflicting Data Sets right now. There are two agendas. Are we going to make a decision that will protect more people from getting sick, but the second question, tamping down the spread of covid19 with a third Booster Shot. Both of those are critical questions and neither of them have anything other than conflicting Data Sets to make those decisions on. The Policy Decision should be based on the science but the science is not yet definitive and that is a problem. It is inevitable thAt The Booster Shot being made available relatively soon for people who have high risk, either immuno compromised or older or whatever it might be, that is something that is medically necessary but as a Public Health Policy Decision there will be other factors at play here and that will be Coming Up soon and resolved soon. Its inevitable that were going to get this ball rolling here soon. Dr. Redlener, what is the practical application for people out there who were waiting for some sort of Sign Today in terms of whAt They should do . Well, i guess were talking about first of all, The General Public what do they need to know . Eventually theres probably going to be a Booster Shot quickly made available to people at risk. Secondly in terms of the general population thats much more complicated Public Health and Policy Decision. But At The end of the day i think the public needs to know that. Then the question comes to practicing physicians and vaccine clinics. What are they supposed to do and whAt Theyre supposed to do is follow the guidelines that will come out of the fda. But the other thing that we cant ignore is theres been an incredible amount of internal dissension and this has been a chronic challenge for this administration that im actually quite surprised about. They need to get their Communication Act together. And so far i think its kind of disappointing thAt They cant do that. They cant make an announcement. They would have to back off the announcement. The fda and the cdc must be aligned and hopefully that will start happening more effectively soon. So let me share with both of you some updated information i just got. The committee is going to vote on a new question about the recommendation of Booster Shots, a new question most likely what dr. Bhadelia described, the narrow focus to approve Booster Shots for people aged 65 and over. Theyre taking a Tenminute Break to draft that language. Is that an acknowledgement that whAt Theyve done today seems to contradict what dr. Fauci said this morning and they need to come down with something definitive on this narrower question whAt To do for americans 65 and older, dr. Bhadelia . Well, i think, nicolle, i posted this before and ive spoken about it. I think thats where the data currently stands. Lets differentiate whAt The Policy Decisions should be from the science. The science is clearest showing those over 60 from the data from israel, from the data the cdc published on patients over 75 seeing a drop in Hospitalization Efficacy against hospitalization, thats where the science stands. WhAt The committee is saying is based on the current signs this is what we can say with confidence. You saw additional data. There is a risk for people even in their 40s, and thats the addition of the medically high risk. And then the last, look, if people like Health Care workers such as myself and dr. Redlener who got their vaccines in december, if the efficacy is going down, were around vulnerable people and so occupationally that makes sense. The Public Policy wise it makes sense for those folks to also be protected. I dont necessarily think its to appease or to try to come to terms. I think that is where the science currently stands. Dr. Redlener, how did the White House get to a place where the president made an announcement about a Booster Shot Rollout Plan . Was he sort of blind sided by where the panel was breaking in terms of their recommendations or was it maybe this Policy Goal of preventing infections to stop the spread of delta . How are they left looking like they got ahead of the science, something they have pledged, they will always abide by the science. What happened they seemed to have gotten their timing misaligned . Right. And i think this is the question of the day, nicolle and is a real problem. It cuts across the credibility of the administration. They cannot be doing this over and over again. This has happened with other Public Health experts. And i think this is something [ inaudible ] At The end of the day when the president got ahead of himself or let the policy or announcements get ahead of the scientific determination of the next steps that need to be taken that is a problem that cannot happen. In this day of already shaky credibility of government officials, we need to see a much better coordinated messaging whether its from the president or from the major agencies, whatever it is, they have to, behind the curtains figure out how to make this all cohesive and credible entirely along the process of making these announcements. Dr. Bhadelia, there is now a demand. The vaccinated have, i think, an expectation thAt The vaccine will continue to protect them. It is sort of the only solace in this very almost divided status of the Delta Variant raging and packing hospitals and impacting all the care not just for covid patients but if your kid has appendicitis youre waiting longer. If someone has a Heart Attack, your chances of surviving may be diminished in a place with packed icus. What is sort of the reality of whats happening in america and the vaccinated wanting to stay free from Illness Or Anything that could get them into a Hospital Situation which are inundated . Is there an acknowledgement of this moment, this crisis in Public Health in the country . This was posed in a different way, nicolle. What is the Public Health impact on transmission, decreasing transmission for boosters and theres not enough evidence. Israel suggested, look, our cases all came down in all Age Groups because were reducing that, thats inference. The Cdc Representative was asked this as well and one can presume thAt The boosters may. However, the greatest impact that will have on the public Health Perspective many people have said is to try to get the first and second doses in people. Theres still a question to be had. I think were going to continue discussing this because the other scientific question up there is should the entire series just be three doses . Was it we gave the first two doses too close together and we need thAt Third dose to have a more mature immune reaction thats more long term . And thats also a scientific question that hasnt been answered yet. I dont think the booster for everyone in question is gone completely. I would imagine well have to keep discussing this. Let me give you the last word on this question. Is there a Silver Lining for the vaccinated public under 60 without any sort of immuno compromised condition that were still okay, were still protected . I feel confident people without those extra Risk Factors are, in fact, affected. I really would not worry about that. Again, if were facing a situation where were having a lot of people who may have reduced immunity, those people are very likely and inevitably should get the third Booster Shot. We have a lot of factors here. One of the things i think is Worth Concluding with is the people at Risk Need to probably get a third booster. The people at high exposure levels, which we should also talk about which includes people who work in crowds, people who work in hospitals, people who are around a lot of people all day long though they may not be personally having the extra Risk Factors. But really, one last final word, we have a problem with people getting first and second shots. We look at a map of the united states and see vast areas of under vaccinated people. People need to make sure [ inaudible ] the many, many communities around the country where theyre still far behind and actually contributing the spread of covid. Doctors, thank you both for jumping on the air with us. This was a breaking story. We appreciate both of your flexibility. Well stay on it. Keep your phones close. We may call on you again over the next two hours. When we come back the disgraced Expresident S campaign to purge his party of anyone he perceives as disloyal to him. A Rising Star is leaving calling it quits as he faces threats to his safety, his familys safety, his retirement revealing what is left of todays Republican Party is no good and another republican who doesnt feel the gop represents him. The new Hampshire Law Maker who became a democrat over covid Safety And Health mandates pushed out by extremists on the right. Hell be our guest later in the program. Coming up, Capitol Police say theyre more than prepared for whatever the happens at Tomorrows Rally in d. C. The threats looming outside of washington, continue growing disinformation. All of that and more when deadline White House continues after a quick break. Dline whites after a quick break. Finding new routes to reach your customers, and new ways for them to reach you. Is what business is all about. Its whAt The United States Postal Service has always been about. 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Proving once again that nobody builds networks like verizon. Thats why were building 5g right, thats why theres only one best network. A 36yearold congressman, a former Football Star with a stanford mba, a Rising Star in any political party, right . Not in Todays Gop where the only qualification that matters is blind loyalty to the twice impeached disgraced expresident. Anthony gonzalez can be driven out of office at any time. Anthony gonzalez, one of ten house republicans who voted to impeach Donald Trump for inciting the deadly insurrection announced his retirement Last Night partly out of fears for the safety of his family. From the New York times calling former president Donald Trump a cancer for the country. Anthony gonzalez, republican of ohio, said in an interview thursday that he would not run for election in 2022 rather than compete against a trumpbacked primary opponent. He said that quality of life issues have been paramount in his decision. He recounted an Eye Opening Moment when he and his family were greeted At The Cleveland Airport by two uniformed Police Officers, part of extra Security Precautions being taken after that impeachment vote. Gonzalez and a handful of republicans who acted on their belief thAt Trump is a danger to democracy have been the targets of a campaign to effectively drive them out of the party. Its a campaign that includes intimidation and threats of violence like the Ones Gonzalez faces. Remember this . This was mitt romney. He was harassed and Called A traitor while traveling to d. C. To certify the election results. Liz cheney was ousted from her leadership position. The anger against her so intense that Trump Ally and alleged Child Sex Trafficker campaigned against her. The barrage of attacks from the Trump Propaganda Machine that is Fox News. She just cant quit talking about the capitol riots, she calls the insurrection. Republicans Want To move on, but cheney refuses to. Shes a woman obsessed. Lending her dwindling credibility to Nancy Pelosi that is liz cheney. She knows shes coming to the end of the road. Her own voters despise her. Lisa murkowski that dont fight for these principles, i dont see any need for them in the Republican Party. Theyre weak, thayer ineffective and in the case of Lisa Murkowski shes not even fighting for her state. How is that . The reverend al sharpton, president of the national action network, also joining us Msnbc Contributor anna palmer, founder of Punch Bowl News and Charlie Sykes for the bulwark. Charlie sykes, the congressman has just given an interview to his local station. Let me show you what he said. Is there room for you or people like you with Ideology And Policy in the party . I think there is. The thing i always say voters ultimately decide the direction of the party. One thing ill say, if you sort of look At The typical primary electorate youre looking at roughly 10 of the population. And i think theres an open question how do we change the dynamics where more people are voting in primaries which is for congressional seats the reality is you need more people to participate in the democratic process. When i speak to people the vast majority have discussed it with both parties. And they Want To see something they can latch on to. Its disappointing for them and for me. There is a way to bring us back from the brink and thats for people to participate in these primaries. Let me read to you what is going to come after him if a republican prevails in the district from our friend and colleague. Gonzalezs vote to impeach resulted in a primary from Max Miller. He worked for trump and allegedly assaulted his girlfriend and colleague. Unlike gonzalez, miller was no athletic hero. Miller had no record of accomplishment though he does have a rap sheet. He had no coherent Policy Critique of gonzalez. The primary was to be a referendum whether they wanted a Trump Toty even if it means overthrowing american democracy. A perfect encapsulation of the republican Partys Dissent into something even darker and even worse than what we see right now. Thats exactly right. It feels like a familiar story this ongoing purge of the decent, the principled, the honorable members and their replacement by the deplorable. Think of Max Miller as the Biff Character from back to the future. Youre finding the most obnoxious people around. I thought one of the Things Congressman Gonzalez said was interesting, he thought he could have won a primary but he didnt think it was worth it anymore. He could have spent the next year fighting through all this bs and all he would have won was a chance to sit in a caucus with deplorables like Marjorie Taylor Greene and he just didnt Want To do it anymore. Some of the good gus who are leaving and people who will make this more antidemocratic, more authoritarian. And this is kind of the tragedy. Part of me wishes he would have stayed and fought. I understood as a Human Being, why do you want it . Why do you Want To sit in a caucus run by someone like Kevin Mccarthy . Is it worth it anymore . Ill be totally honest, charlie, ive been so crushed with Disappointment And Disgust by the people that know better. People like him. He voted to impeach. But before him people like paul ryan, people like rob portman, people who knew that Everything Trump said and did was either corrupt or uninformed or disgusting or in some instances all three. And but their absence leads to something worse. Are you confident when the takeover is complete it will be a smaller party and a diminished party . I would like to think so. I would like to think there will be a moment of reality. Im not sure. What is clear this is one of those cases where the worst are full of passionate intensity and one after another the people who have you had have been the solution, should have been the guardrails, have retreated or caved in or gone along with all of this. We dont know where this is going to go with this party. If they get in power, it will be more intensely trumpy than what weve seen the last few years. I dont even know whAt That means. Recounting ballots in multiple states. Rev, i Want To show you something that Congressman Collin allred said on this network earlier about the significance of this retirement. Anthony is a Division Rival on the colts for us. We played them twice a year. Ive been on the other side of him in congress and hes a friend of mine. Hes a good and decent guy and its a loss for the congress, a loss for the country. If you dont have an Anthony Gonzalez in the congress, i think its a sign the Republican Party is fundamentally broken. Like me and my colleagues he has serious Security Concerns and both of us have young kids that are playing into this. These are issues in other countries. That shouldnt be something that happens in the united states. And, rev, the reason that political violence is a reality is complicated and not so complicated. The expresident is a fan of it. He did not condemn the insurrection in forceful terms. He said on that day we love you. He said of the jailed insurrectionists recently thAt They had his support. We are heading down an incredibly, incredibly perilous path here just with one of the two parties views on political violence. I think that is all the more reason people like Congressman Allred and others commend gonzalez taking a stand and people many of us may disagree with on every political Point But deals with the fact theres a difference between criminal behavior and violent Behavior And Insurrectionist behavior and in political and policy disagreements. And to show you how far weve gone. As you said the Expresident Supporting those that did whAt They did on January 6th which was an insurrection. A Rally Tomorrow where were saying we hope its not violent and not dealing with the fact they are having a rally supporting people that broke the law. Trying to stop a vote in the united states. If you Want To know how tremendously out of whack that is, if you Want To know how offensive that should be, imagine if after the George Floyd killing in minneapolis i did the eulogy, we had a lot of the marches, some people looted and burned down stores. Suppose i went back in and held a rally for the people that looted and burned down stores saying they were political prisoners or when Michael Brown was killed and there were riots and President Obama said he supports those that did rioting. It would be unthinkable. It would be outrageous. They wouldnt be talking about if theres a violence At The rally. They would be saying how dare sharpton do that and how dare anyone act like this and even remotely justified about it. Thats what were witnessing tomorrow. They are supporting violence. People died there were injuries. People were desecrating and defacing senators and congressmens offices and were acting like this is a protest tomorrow. This is normalizing that behavior. The Congressman Calls trump a cancer. Fox news is the metastasized body on the right being so toxic and so sick that violence is green lit. Im not going to read whAt The Expresident Said about gonzalez, but ill try to characterize it. Donald Trump Today reacting to Gonzalezs News by calling him a rhino, describes the tremendous loss of popularity and went back to his thin Skin Squeal about an ill informed and very stupid impeachment vote. When the most powerful person in a political person is obsessed with revenge, we know what happens. You have Kevin Mccarthy negotiating the terms of a bipartisan commission to investigate the January 6th insurrection and cut the legs out from under him. You have Mitch Mcconnell give a speech essentially suggesting criminal prosecution for Donald Trump and then high tail it out of there and refuse to be a leader. You have one guy who won twice, the last republican to do so, george bush, calling the violent strain, the extremists in the Republican Party with a penchant for violence, the same threAt To our country and i think its the same cancer as the 9 11 terrorists. Has that started to seep in on Capitol Hill . The energy for the Republican Party truly is even on Capitol Hill, certainly in The States and these very conservative districts, but it is also where a lot of the Attention And Focus is in congress where Kevin Mccarthy is looking to win the majority. Hes not winning the majority on republicans like Anthony Gonzalez. Hes winning the majority in 2022 by people that are very in the trumpian strain. The energy and where hes raising money and when you look At The revenge politics which is truthful with this president , this expresident , hes going in to all of these districts, whether its liz cheneys, supporting primary opponents, if you cross him on impeachment or anything else, the Trump Wing of the party is going to try to take you out. Anthony gonzalez was talked about as a potential senate republican candidate in that state and now hes just completely taking himself out of the mix where he was this Rising Star. If you were looking to find a way forward, his stepping back is really going to just hurt you. Who wants to run when you cant have somebody call up another potential candidate. You should run. This isnt as bad as it looks on national television. Why would anyone Want To get in the game . Charlie sykes, i asked you where this leads. What happens if this doesnt sort of bob along in this intense position where we have a threAt To the homeland that adhere to these two pinnacles mostly fueled by disinformation of chafing against Public Health restrictions to prevent the spread of Covid And Adherence to the Expresident S delusional fantasies about the existence of election fraud. What do we do if something happens . Im really worried about that. I agree. I think the prospect of Domestic Violence rises with every Passing Statement from the expresident. We talked about the Sedition Caucus and the house of representatives. He is the seditionist in chief. It all flows from him and the fact that he issued a statement saying our hearts and minds are with the people who are being persecuted as a result of January 6th, that was a stunning moment. We talk about normalization too much. That not only normalized the political violence of January 6th, it tries to revise them into patriotic heroes. Thats why you are having more of this bubbling threat out there as well as some really loose talk about secession. Its hard to know how it ends if somebody as prominent as Donald Trump It Ins to pour kerosene on the fire, and his fellow republicans refuse to push back. And as far as i know, there was absolutely zero Pushback Yesterday when the president of the united states praised those rioters, many of whom beat and attacked and injured Police Officers. There was zero pushback, which would suggest thAt This is a party that will either embrace violence or pretend it will go away on its own which will not happen. Any reporting that Ken Mccarthy tried to get him to stay . Ive not heard that. Kevin mccarthy is focused on winning back that majority and that comes through Trump Heartland and having the former president on his side. I dont think Anthony Gonzalez is looking to any advice from Kevin Mccarthy here when he was making this decision. Unbelievable State Of Affairs. Tragic. Thank you all so much. There is more Breaking News out that have Fda Panel weve been Monitoring Voting unanimously in their second vote of the afternoon thAt The benefits of Booster Shots of the Pfizer Vaccine Outweapon the risk for fully vaccinated americans over 65 years old as well as those at high risk of developing severe covid. Their opinion on boosters for that population at least six months after the second dose weighs heavily on the full fda and the cdc, of course. It follows what we reported At The top of the hour, against the their Booster Shot for every american 16 years and older. Dr. Bhedalia, this was in like with what you were predicting. It was. Whether this was a failure on the biden Administration Side and does this go against whAt They were trying to do. The evidence so far is very clear as the fdas committee, The External Advisory Committee said there was a benefit for those who are above a certain age and at high risk because theyre most likely to see waning immunity. Approving a third dose for everybody right now theres not enough evidence youre seeing efficacy for that group but the question even if youre just trying to prevent infection, if you give boosters, is there a longterm protection and we dont have that and you have to weigh that against the risk of giving a third dose. A 20yearold who is not seeing that and are there any Side Ex and the cost of trying to get set up a Booster System and the cost of taking those vaccines away from first doses that might have a bigger Public Health impact. I do not think thats the end. I think it will probably come up again as more data is developed. It would have been irresponsible to leave today without approving it for those over 65 because there is clear evidence they need it and developing evidence those at high Risk Need it as well. Just to be clear, if the full panel and the cdc agrees, every american 65 and older who were the first vaccinated and so they may be hitting that mark, could start to line up and sign up on those Vaccine Websites and go to their pharmacies for a Booster Shot as soon as that approval is achieved . And those who are high risk. I Want To extend that, too. Its not just those who are 65. Those who are obese, potential high risk in the israeli data as well that could get the booster. I think that would be the right thing to do based on even the cdcs own data and waning immunity they saw in older populations over 65 and over 60. I think Thats Something that needs to start happening sooner rather than later. We have to see how the fda will take the recommendations and turn it into approval and then, also, whAt The cdcs advisory committee will say. Dr. Nahid bhadelia, thank you for sticking around. Up next for us, a busy afternoon, more Breaking News, the pentagon in the last hour saying a deadly Drone Strike in afghanistan is whAt Theyre calling a tragic mistake. That developing story is next. G. R the safe pilots. Like mac. Who can come to a stop with barely a bobble. With usaa safepilot, when you drive safe. You can save up to 30 on your auto insurance. Usaa. What youre made of, were made for. Get a quote today. Hi, im steve and i live in austin, texas. I work as a Personal Assistant to the owner of a large manufacturing firm. Ive got anywhere from 10 to 50 projects going at any given time. I absolutely have to be sharp. Let me tell ya, i was struggling with my memory. It was going downhill. My friend recommended that i try prevagen and over time, it made a very significant difference in my memory and in my cognitive ability. I started to feel a much better sense of wellbeing. Prevagen. Healthier brain. Better life. I brought in ensure max protein, with thirty grams of protein. Those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks [sighs wearily] here, ill take that woohoo ensure max protein. With thirty grams of protein, one gram of sugar, and now with two new flavors i give families a home, not just a place to stay. I am a vrbo host. Were also monitoring Breaking News coming out of the pentagon this afternoon. The pentagon acknowledging its August 29th Drone Strike, one of the last actions there, killed afghan civilians and children, calling their belief it posed a threAt To u. S. Force, quote, a mistake. Commander general Kenneth Mckenzie last hour. Having thoroughly reviewed the findings of the investigation and the supporting analysis by interagency partners i am now convinced that as many as ten civilians including up to seven children were tragically killed in that strike. Moreover, we now assess that it is unlikely thAt The vehicle and those who died or associated with isisk or were a direct threAt To u. S. Forces. This strike was taken in the belief it would prevent an imminent threAt To our forces and evacuees At The airport. But it was a mistake. Jeremy bash, former Chief Of Staff At The cia, former Chief Of Staff of the Department Of Defense and an Msnbc National Security analyst. Can you give us some context how this was made public in this Manner Today . What a terrible development and what an awful set of circumstances. We all understand the concept of the thought of war where judgments are contorted under the pressure of saving lives but this is inexcusable, horrible. Im proud of them for coming forward in a straightforward way and saying, yes, this was a tragic mistake. We wholeheartedly apologize. We will pay reparations and will review top to bottom how this happened. Nicolle, ive been involved in observing Military Operations from my prior government positions. Ive been involved where there was a weapon nearing mistake where the missiles were aimed at Point A and went to Point B or the ordinance was too big and it reached civilians. I didnt think of a time there was such a fundamental breakdown that a target we aimed at and struck with precision was not affiliated with anybody who threatens the united states of america and tragically, in addition to the Aid Worker and the adults in the vehicle, seven children were tragically killed by the united states. So this is to call it a tragedy is an understatement. There are no words. I think the pentagon will have to thoroughly and carefully review how such a fundamental Intelligence Mistake was made. I know the people involves are good people. They were genuinely trying to protect the forces but theres no excuse for this and im glad general mckenzie didnt try to make one. Jeremy, on the broader conversation happening in the days since Bob Woodward and bob costas, excerpts of their Book Peril have come out, ive been wanting to ask your thoughts about, first, General Milleys conduct, which he is defending and a lot of people are saying when all the adults and the guardrails and everyone else failed or couldnt take President Trump anymore he stayed and protected the country and did the right thing. But over in delusional america there are calls for his firing and worse. Your thoughts . Well, a couple things, nicolle. First, a chairman of the joint chiefs, any chairman, has responsibility for dialoguing with other countries, both our friends and close allies as well as our potential competitors and adversaries. Its not unusual for a chairman to have conversations with the head of the chinese military or the head of another countrys Armed Forces to compare notes, to sync up, to telegraph specific messages. I think its an important role this chairman played in telegraphing to the chinese, no, were not going to attack you. There is stability in the united states. And dont miscalculate. After all, so many wars can be sparked from miscalculation. Im totally comfortable with what General Milley did in this case. Moreover,this particular matter because there was such a lunatic in the oval office, someone who was unpredictable, someone who had politicized intelligence, politicized the justice department, attempted to politicize the military, i think it was right of General Milley and im proud that he stood firm and made clear thAt The united States Military was not going to be dragged into a political gamesmanship At The 11th Hour and it is the duty of the military to maintain Peace And Security and stability of the united states. I understand there may be other contexts in which uniformed Military Transmitting messages to other countries may be out of sync with whAt The commander in chief wanted. That wasnt this case. This case was a case where Donald Trump truly was threatening the stability of the entire world. And i think General Milley did the right thing. I wanted to ask you about both of these stories for some time. Thank you for making time for us today. It is greAt To see you. Were going to turn now to the division in this country over vaccines. This is new York City yesterday at car mines restaurant, upper west side, where a hostess was attacked physically by a group of people after she, following the laws of, you know, asked them to show proof of vaccination, doing her job following the law. Three women from texas arrested and charged with assault. This is according to the New York times. But it is not just this one incident. Life saving vaccines are currently dividing our country, creating a new kind of Covid Radicalism as our friend Amy Stoddard dubbed it earlier in the week. Next guest, a new Hampshire State Lawmaker was so fed up with this radicalism which he blames on an extremist gop he switched parties. He switched his affiliation from republican to democratic this week because he says the republican Party Today has completely lost its way. Doctor and now democrat, william marsh, a former member of the Republican Party. Im a former member, too. How do you feel . Good morning, nicolle or good afternoon, nicolle. Im sorting out the week. I havent had time to digest it yet. Youre right. Im not only a former member of the party, i was Vice Charge of the health and human Services Committee of the new Hampshire House. Thats where im coming from. We have even more Vaccine Craziness coming out today in New Hampshire. What is happening today . Well, today the fiscal committee of the New Hampshire general court rejected 27 Million in federal funds earmarked for distributing the Covid Vaccine in The State of New Hampshire. I was worried about this. I mean all of our citizens well, not all of our citizens. A large number of our citizens Want To get vaccinated. So i contacted Patricia Tillie of the new Hampshire Department of Public Health and i asked her what is this going to mean. She told me it is going to mean three things. She says by with withholding the funds we lost the ability to easily get vaccine to everyone who needs a booster including first responders. She tells me we have lost the ability to plan for and distribute vaccine to kids, and while hospitals my phone turns off here. Everybody has that, i guess. While hospitals are in crisis, now we made it harder for them to manage the vaccine. I mean this doesnt help. The issue in New Hampshire is the people who are in charge of the fiscal committee do not Want To provide the cdc and the fda with the data thAt The cdc and the fda require to distribute the Covid Vaccine. What are they hiding . Theyre trying to preempt law. Why . I think theyve lost their minds. I mean why would you withhold access to a vaccine in the middle of a pandemic when numbers are skyrocketing in The State of New Hampshire . It makes it is absolutely insane in my mind, which i cant put up with it anymore so i said im done with this. Ive left. What do you think i mean i quoted my friend Amy Stoddard because i think the radicalization is the best way to explain the departure from a factbased analysis. You can, i suppose, have an honest debate about vaccine mandates at what Size Business that makes sense, do you do it at 20, do you do it at 50, do you do it at 100. The biden administration chose 100. I dont see a debate around federal funds for Vaccine Distribution and Storage And Education and Booster Shots as you are articulating. What fuels the radicalism in the Republican Party . I think people are repeating ideas thAt They hear from wherever. I dont know where theyre coming from, but they repeAt Them to themselves over and over again and it is just like brainwashing. At the end they finally believe it. When somebody says something different like me, they shut them up. How did they shut you up . They told me in june i believe it was June 3rd on the floor of the new Hampshire House that if i got up to speak against desantistype regulations, which would prevent businesses from requiring vaccines, requiring masks, doing the things that we know control covid, if i got up to speak against thAt They were going to remove me from my vicechairmanship of Health And Human Services. I got up and spoke. We defeated that bill on the house floor. But they havent spoken to me since and this is where we are. Is there an effort to cover up the number of cases of covid in New Hampshire by republicans there . I think the department of Health And Human Services is excellent at reporting the data on a daily basis. Im sure you have been able to get the graphs from their website. I dont think theres any coverup there. It is not under their control. But i think thAt Theres denial thAt The data is real. And thats why they voted to not take the federal funds because it would have forced, it would have come with the stick and the carrot, would have been more disclosure of The States Covid Information . I wasnt At That meeting. I was running the rare disease Advisory Council. I have been chairing the New Hampshire rare disease Advisory Council since its inception, but i became aware of this coming on and it is just one more thing. It is just over and over and over again, something comes up and theyre against vaccines. They are against masks. Theyre against anything actually that has been shown to control covid. We have 400 members in the new Hampshire House. We are going to be required to meet in person in representatives all for a Veept Veto Session coming in a few weeks and covid is spiking in The State of New Hampshire. Not only covid but Delta Variant. My daughter goes to connecticut college. Connecticut college has a Vaccination Rate of 99 . They test everyone before they go down there. They test everyone when they arrive on campus. When they started the School Year this year they had a handful of cases like anybody does. Within a week it had spiked to 6 of the College Campus was infected and symptomatically infected. Wow. Wow. This is what is happening. These are facts, guys. Our hospitals are getting overflowing with patients, not in New Hampshire so much as other places but it is really only a matter of time if these policies continue. We will and people are going to die. We are grateful to you for speaking out. We are grateful to you for making time. We will continue with your help to shine a light on what is happening in New Hampshire. Thank you so much for spending some time with us. Thank you. I will continue to speak out about it. Please do, sir. State Representative Dr. William marsh. Thank you so much. The next hour of deadline White House starts after a short break. Dont go anywhere. 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Wondering what actually goes into your multivitamin . At new chapter, and if youre pregnant or planning to be. Its innovation, organic ingredients, and fermentation. Fermentation . Yes. Formulated to help you body really truly absorb the natural goodness. New chapter. Wellness, well done. We would be foolish not to take seriously the intelligence that we have at our disposal. There have been some threats of violence associated with this the events for tomorrow, and we have a strong plan in place to ensure that it remains peaceful and that if violence does occur that we can stop it as quickly as possible. Hi, again. It is 5 00 in New York. Warning of violence at Tomorrows Rally in washington, d. C. In support of the capitol insurrectionists. What you heard from Capitol Police, what separating this from becoming a January 6th repeat is that Law Enforcement is prepared. Taking no chances, fencing has gone up surrounding the capitol. Heightened Security Postures are in place. Theres even the possibility that Rally Goers could just decide to stay home. Theres a conspiracy thAt The rally, the whole thing is a setup by The Feds is now circulating widely among extremists. It was even bolstered by the expresident. Despite who comes to d. C. Tomorrow, the sentiment behind the rally is not going away any time soon. As written in the Washington Post, quote, if the goal of the rally this weekend is to elevate a sympathetic view of the rioters it doesnt matter if it fales. After all, that elevation is already happening in the attentionseeking rightwing media ecosystem. Lets look at what he is talking about. One of, if not the most prominent voice on fox nuss, Tucker Carlson, has been a regular disseminator about disinformation about the capitol attack. Take a listen. Theres no evidence that white supremacists were responsible for what happened on January 6th. Thats a lie. Contrary to what you have been hearing theres also no evidence this was a, quote, armed insurrection. Strangely, some of the key people who participated on January 6th have not been charged. Look At The document. The government calls those people unindicted coconspirators. What does it mean . Potentially every single case they were fbi operatives. We dont amplify Tucker Carlson for no reason. You know we dont do it often b you we show it to you today to demonstrate how dangerous those lies are when theyre repeated on networks and shows like his and sites a large number of americans trust as facts. Lets dig into those specific comments. There was a claim that January 6th was not an armed insurrection. Countless videos and photos from the Day Show rioters holding a variety of weapons, things like stun guns, pepper spray, flag poles, and defendants have now been charged with firearms violations. Theres also carlsons egregious lie thAt The fbi was behind the capitol riot. That falsehood was quickly dispelled but it didnt stop it from finding its way into the halls of congress where some republican lawmakers repeated the false claim. Another false Theory Spread far and wide was those who stormed the capitol were actually members of Antifa Disguised in Trump Supporter costumes. It is a claim Fbi Director was forced to address and shot down. We have not to date seen any evidence of anarchist violent extremists or people subscribing to antifa in connection with the 6th. Even the Police Officers who defended the Capitol And Everybody in it that day have not been spared from the con spiracies. Michael fanone was Called A crisis actor. He suffered a Heart Attack and Brain Injury during the insurrection. Meanwhile, that same Foxconn Tributor wrote a pro Trump Book last year thAt The conservative National Review Called A, quote, dishonest disgrace. The furthering of the lies on Fox News and other rightwing networks manifested itself in groups in this country living in their own alternate realities. New polling from the public Religion Research Institute analyzed by Greg Sergeant and the Washington Post lays bare that phenomenon. It finds 76 of those people who trust Fox News or other rightwing media believe 2020 was stolen. Only 12 of those who trust those rightwing Media Sources blame January 6th on trump, the man who called the Rally Goers to washington, then told them to march down to the capitol. Told the rioters he loved them, said he was coming with them. Meanwhile, 64 of them blame leftwing activists like antifa who were not there. Sergeant says while the results may seem like a no brainer, right, they pose a real threat. He writes this. Quote. Those Views Add up to something truly toxic. The belief thAt The election was stolen and the simultaneous refusal to assign accountability for an effort to violently overthrow our constitutional order suggests rightwing propaganda may be softening the ground for a more concerted abandonment of democracy going forward. The very real threat of rightwing disinformation is where we start this hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. Matthew dowd is here, political Strad Gist and founder of country over pare. Joining us john heilemann, msnbc National Affairs analyst, the host of the hell and high Water Pod Wast and host of show times the circus. Season six or two premiering this weekend. Carol leonnig is here, Washington Post reporter and Msnbc Contributor and coauthor of the book i alone can fix it. You guys are so accomplished you make me feel like i need to get off work and go write a book or do something. Let me ask you, Carol Leonnig, about your latest reporting on this. Almost sort of two sides of this coin that Greg Sergeant and Philip Bump Write about, whether or not the rally for j6 as the Rally Sponsors are calling it is a, you know, million Man Endeavor or a dud in terms of turnout. The belief has gone underground a little bit that worries people that watch for threats, and it is widely spread and accepted dogma for the trumpled gop. You know, it is such a caldron of rewrite of history and rewrite of everything that we see as fact. You cant, as youve pointed out over and over again in your show, you cant change the videotaped evidence of what happened on January 6th, and now, you know, chief manger, forgive me, the new chief at Capitol Police, has the responsibility of making sure January 6th doesnt happen again. But this promulgation of conspiracies, really quite frightening conspiracies. The idea that antifa or the fbi were behind this kind of flies in the face of the words of the protesters themselves. I mean you dont have to be very close reader of history to look At The records of the interviews of the people who rioted on January 6th. They admit why they went, whAt They hoped to do, and the acts and steps thAt They thought they were justified in taking. You dont have to look very far than like msnbc roll, Video Roll or any television broadcast Video Roll to see evidence, and not absolutely incontrovertible evidence but pretty good evidence of felonies, thousands of them. People Want To say that an office thAt There was no Swrie Lens on that day, but every time someone pushed a Bike Rack into a Police Officers face they were assaulting a Law Enforcement officer. So this notion of them being peaceful folks who were in the wrong place At The wrong time as the rally organizer, mr. Maynard, has claimed sort of strains credulity. John heilemann, we talked about this. My old boss called out Domestic Terrorism and Donald Trump answered the call, responded. Didnt Say Anything about Donald Trump. But i dont know. Donald trump, i dont know if he sees himself as a domestic terrorist. He reacted. I wonder what we would do when the leader of the Republican Party only getting more virulent as the cancer, ill call it the retiring republican Congressman Calls Donald Trump a cancer, only growing in sort of size and strength. When you can change the perception of as Carol Leonnig just said, incontrovertible acts, things we saw with our own eyes and i remember Donald Trump saying early in the presidency, dont believe what you see, dont believe what you hear, believe me. He said it in early 2017. Is this just the culmination of that command . Yeah. Yes, culmination and happy friday, nicolle. Hi. It is the culmination of a whole career. I mean Donald Trump was has been a pathological but also machiavellian liar for his entire career before he became president into the presidency. This thing, it is the salesmans gift, right, or curse, whatever you Want To call it. I mean we know tycoons, aspiring tycoons, people who Want To be players in New York society, people who Want To who got a bridge to sell you, you know, people who play that game from the most legitimate to the least legitimate. They believe their own bs. They can spin just endless spools of it, endless spools of bs, and that capacity, that power gets them rich sometimes, sometimes gets them into political office, and Donald Trump Got Him hes less rich than he says he is but still rich by American Standards and it ultimately made his president. He learned over time there was very little penalty for lying, there were a lot of rewards for lying. So, yes, this is the End State of that is where we are now. I think the only answer to it In The End is to beat it and beAt Them. I think theres not going to be theres longer term big questions about how the Information Ecosystem and the way it meshes with the free market, the Way Capitalism at least is practiced in america, in the Western World right now, how it has created incentives for the chooseyourownadventure alternative facts, one side of that being populated by misinformation, disinformation, propaganda, lies, insidious , pernicious and ultimately corrupting of not just individuals but the entire democratic experiment here in the united states. Those are large questions, like ph. D. Level questions, way over my head. I will tell you what you have to do about it to keep the republic is you got to beat it. You got to win elections At The local level, at The State level, At The federal level. You got to win congressional electorates. You got to go into the midterms and beat it as this party has become captured by Donald Trump and that misinformation, the disinformation, the lies and propaganda has to be beaten. It has to be beaten soundly At The only place that matters, At The polls. Then it has to be beaten again in 2024 whether hes on the ballot or not. Thats not even going to solve it immediately. But without thAt This is the end of america is what it is. But i think theres big fights to have here and fights to be won. If those fights are won, it gives the side of democracy a Fighting Chance to win the longer fight, which is to keep america the way i think we the way it was founded and the way it has been in its best of days rather than its worst. I mean wow and yes. Matthew dowd, i wonder your thoughts on how to do that . Well, first, greAt To be here with yall, especially with john and carol and you, nicolle, obviously. I mean first of all the idea thAt Theyre celebrating January 6th, i just have to pause a minute. The idea thAt Theyre celebrating that event on January 6th to me is exactly akin if folks got together and celebrated 9 11 and the 19 tourists that flew planes to New York, the pentagon and The Field in pennsylvania. It is the same exact thing. If somebody stood out there and wanted to celebrate that we would say these people are out of control, they need to be arrested. So the idea theyre celebrating an insurrection is already disturbing enough as it is. I agree with john completely on this. The only way well get through this is and it is not just them. It is the Republican Party, and the difference between what has happened in our History And Today is for our history theres been fringe crazy conspiracy elements in both Political Parties, but there were guardrails in place and the people in those parties, not always 100 perfectly, were able to sort of limit the impact they have. The Problem Today is all of those Fringe Conspiracy elements have consolidated in one Legacy Party, one Legacy Party. Call it whatever banner you are on, white supremacy, Domestic Terrorism, denial of the truth, whatever it is, but theyve consolidated and taken over one of our Legacy Parties in a system that is contingent on two, you know, somewhat enlightened Political Parties. We no longer have two enlightened Political Parties that have the interests of the country at hand. So that is a difference we have never had before, where an entire political party that holds half the offices in the country has been taken over by this element. So what alternative do we have . We, you, everybody on the program, we can tell the truth. We can call people to action. In the end the only way this gets fixed is if the Republican Party from the top to the bottom suffers devastating defeat, because what has happened so far is they have not suffered the consequences enough for this to stop. Any time you have this element in our country, it is beaten when it is eliminated or you identify it and you completely remove it, remove the cancer from it. If that hasnt happened, and actually the cancer has been adopted as some positive thing by the gop in this country, when it festers, it grows, it grows, it grows, and you add in a consolidated Legacy Party of these folks that have no interest in the Common Good and no interest in the ideals of the constitution, coupled with a network, cable network, Fox News and other networks who are radicalizing people by lying to them. It is not just lying to them. Theyre radicalizing people. There is a you can connect the dots to what happened on January 6th and what happened in any number of places around the country where people were injured, people died and all of that, to the radicalization of this. If this was islamic terrorism we would all know it, the fbi would be involved in it shall everybody would know and we would trace it back to the people that radicalized them. The final thing i will say is obviously the people that are participating in this need to be dealt with, held accountable and all of that. But In The End the real people that should be held accountable, these people are being lied to over and over and over again. Donald trump and Tucker Carlson, theyre elitist snobs that wouldnt share their quiche in a fancy restaurant any time with these people. They dont care about these people. They wouldnt defend them. They wouldnt spend money to help them. They wouldnt do any of that. But until people like Tucker Carlson, Donald Trump, Kevin Mccarthy are held fundamentally accountable for the radicalization, and Fox News, radicalization of a segment of the american public we will have this with us. I agree with john. The next step in this process is the democrats have to figure out a way to coalesce together, unify as much as they possibly can with republicans, independents and democrats, and beAt The republicans soundly, from president down to sheriff. Carol, i have asked you about republicans who used to care about terrorism and security, and i Want To know if any republicans in the weeks since the expresident described domestic terrorists as the same threAt To our homeland as foreign terrorists were, do you think from your conversations covering the events around January 6th and everything that has ensued that any of them view extremism as a threat and just wont say it or do you think theyre in denial that it is a threat . I mean their actions suggest they dont see it that way, right . They killed the bipartisan commission, Mcconnell And Mckrargtie both whipping votes to kill it. Then the select mightie with the committee with a cochair. But do they not see the threat, not believe the threat, not believe the fbi . Where are they on the threat posed by violent extremism . Nicolle, the correct and monolithic answer to your question is in the main, heck, yeah. Heck, yeah, they know thAt This is bologna. Heck, yeah, they know that domestic extremism is a real threAt To our country. A threat not just to individual americans, a threAt To the republic. You know, ben franklins line, it is a republic if you can keep it, were teetering. Those folks know this. Not every single one. There are individual republicans who clearly, you know, have gotten themselves whipped up into this frame of mind where they absorb and promote, but also believe and have ago accepted some of the Conspiracy Theories about antifa and the deep state trying to hurt Donald Trump and keep him from his rightful, quote, unquote, second term, even though it was the most carefully monitored and most thoroughly reviewed election in american history and was not rigged. Your question is so important buss when you know as a republican that domestic extremism is a threat and you continue to parrot some of it, what are you doing for america . You are sinking it. You are helping sink it. It is really frightening. I mean some of the terror forgive me. Some of the conspiracies that are being pushed by Tucker Carlson, for example, really do and i second matts not emotion but his analysis about isis. Some of Tucker Carlsons claims have the same kind of playbook as a commander in islamic radicalization organization. You know, reach out to people. Make them afraid. Make them angry and feel thAt Theyre being dismissed. Make them join you because theyre isolated, and join you in this coocoo for cocoa puffs theory. To say that fbi operatives were the ones that launched that is just so wrong headed. Again, i would turn you to the documents, the fbis own documents, the words of the individuals theyve interviewed, transcribed interviews in which rioters explain they came, Donald Trump asked them to come, they were going to stop the Election Certification because the president needed them. By the way, they pushed some officers or assaulted some officers along the way. They are providing that information. It is amazing. I mean i think just two other thoughts. I mean Donald Trump could have pardoned them all. I mean to matt dowds point, he doesnt care about them. Donald trump could have pardoned them all on his way out. There were, i think, 16 days after the insurrection before he left other. He handed out plenty of other pardons. You know, i think it is a remarkable, a remarkable State Of Affairs when all three of you can find parallels to the threat we faced from Al Qaeda on 9 11. Unbelievable. You have all blown my mind. Given me chills and have me hankering for a mommy bev ranch. Thank you for starting us off this hour. After the break, the republican congressman on twitter for his statement about Afghan Refugees. Plus, russian dissident navalnys plan to undermine Vladimir Putin in Russias Election getting under way today. How Donald Trump cost taxpayers 1. 7 Million more even after he was out of office. Deadline White House after a quick break. Dont go anywhere. At usaa, weve been called too exclusive. Because we were created for officers. But as weve evolved with the military, weve grown to serve all whove honorably served. 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To be clear, this tweet is over 75 total Afghan Refugees that his state is receiving. Sadly, but these xenophobic sentiments are not exclusive to hip. The app is reporting despite overwhelming bringing Afghan Refugees to The States, there is a cynical push by Trump Supporters to use the culture ward. Quote, the former trump officials are writing position papers, appearing on conservative Television Outlets and meeting privately with gop lawmakers, all in an effort to turn the collapse of afghanistan into an opportunity to push a hard line immigration coverage. Joining our coverage, thank you for joining us today. Thank you for having me. First in your view, what is owed to the Afghan Refugees through extraordinary difficult circumstances make their way to our country . What is owed to them is what we promised. We promised if you protect the united states the united states would protect you. Now, what were doing actually, what Congressman Matt rosendale and others are doing is were basically going back on our words and endangering our national security because if other people, other countries we should get involved with in a war dont believe were going to follow by our word then theyre not going to help us. Theyre not going to have the ontheground intelligence we need. At the same time this is a very cynical and bigoted move by the representative. He knows that many of these most of them have gone through extensive vetting, and in a state like montana, as big as they are, they can certainly take 75 refugees that have been helpful to the united states and its work. And the public is where you are. 68 of all americans, as you know, 68 of all americans dont agree on very much. I dont get to read that number very often. 68 of all americans support the united states taking in refugees fleeing afghanistan after security screening. It includes 56 of republicans. How do you keep that support there to make sure thAt The resettlement is successful . Well, the way we keep the support is we show the Human Nature of this. We also have all of the you know, refugees aligned with and talk to the people thAt They helped. You know, i know many Afghan Refugees that have come here that were friends and allies and were interpreters. Some of them actually met up and have moved here specifically to live closer to the men and women thAt They served with. We need to humanize and teach, you know, people thAt This is a strong relationship and also that refugees do make this country great. We have a strong history, a bipartisan history whether it is cuban refugees, whether it is vietnamese refugees that have really created great businesses, created great families, have become part of the fabric of the united states. This is an addition, not a subtraction. Takes shame that republicans are losing their way because they used to have such a rich History And Support of refugees and Refugee Resettlement in this country. A highlevel republican resignation because of the toxic stew, i believe he called it a cancer thAt Trump has on the party. Is it your view thAt Trumps grip on the Republican Party is getting stronger, weaker or about the same . Stronger. You know, i have a lot of republican friends here in arizona and theyre, you know, fiscal conservatives that have been strong, you know, advocates for constitutional protections, everything else. They feel thAt This party has really left them. At this point it is you know, the trump Republican Party is becoming smaller and smaller but more virulent and that becomes very dangerous because instead of having two parties that can work together you only have one party that is, you know, i would say the party of sanity, us, the democrats. What is left are the trump Republican Party which believes in conspiracy, qanon and is supportive of things such as the January 6th insurrection. Yeah. Something i think In The End we should all be afraid of. It is a really sad, sad day we are going from reagan Bush Party to what is i think is a trump party. And, you know, it extends obviously to covid and to the effort to continue the fruitless search that Bill Barr and Chris Krebs and other republicans failed at, and thats the host for Voter Fraud. The fraudit as it was coined by some of my guest, efforts to scrutinize the voters and the vote in pennsylvania are ongoing and commencing. What do you have to say after watching or having some inside knowledge about what happened in arizona . Well, number one, we had one of the cleanest, safest elections that The State of arizona has ever had with the most participation that was certified by republicans, governor ducey, the Board Of Supervisors of Maricopa County which is 41, republican. Number one. Number two, this is a scam. Donald trump has been raising money off this, has not sent any money to the audit. The gop here has been raising money, has not done anything on the audit. Theyve done nothing to help this fake audit. At the end of the day they keep on saying they need to put the Report Out, they need to put the Report Out and keep on extending it, much like the colts will extend the end days or whatever the Colts Prediction is. It is going to continue. What is going to happen in pennsylvania we will see it again. They will come up with miscellaneous reasons why something was off. They will announce it and then retract it a couple of days ago and raise money and continue doing that. This is a sham but also it destroys the integrity of politics, of people voting and wanting to vote. I think it is going to hurt republicans and hurt republicans in tend because there will be republicans not going to vote in some of the close elections because their leaders told them you shouldnt even count the vote. As much as i think i would benefit from that, i dont think it is good for the overall system and i hope with republicans understand that. You have a very good dog over your left shoulder. Next time i will ask you your secret for keeping the dog quiet. I never mastered that, 18 months in the basement. Congressman, thank you so much for spending some time with us. Thank you for your time. Thank you for understanding. After the break, why Alexei Navalnys plan to take on Vladimir Putin At The Ballot Box is being hampered today by u. S. Tech companies. Well explain. Most reliable network by rootmetrics. And our customers rated us 1 for Network Quality in america according to j. D. Power. Number one in reliability, 16 times in a row. Most awarded for Network Quality, 27 times in a row. Proving once again that nobody builds networks like verizon. Thats why were building 5g right, thats why theres only one best network. What happens when we Welcome Change . We can make Emergency Medicine possible at 40,000 feet. Instead of burning our past for power, we can harness the energy of the tiny electron. We can create new ways to connect. Rethinking how we communicate to be more inclusive than ever. With app, cloud and anywhere workspace solutions, vmware helps companies navigate change. Faster. Vmware. Welcome change. Hey google. Theres a crucial weekend ahead in russia to tell you about. Three days of voting there starts today in the parliamentary election. While vladimir Putins Name is not on the ballot this time around, it still is a critical moment, seen as an opportunity for putin to cement his grip on power or maybe not. Supporters of his chief critic, jailed Opposition Leader Alexei Navalny have a plan. It is called Smart Voting. It is a tactical Voting App that organizers users around candidates most likely to defeAt Those who are prokremlin across each of russias 225 electoral districts, whether the voter agrees with that persons policies Per Se or not. That way putins cronies run up against a surge of votes for their chief competitors, whoever they are. Regardless of party. Optimally the strategy would result in a purge of proputin politicians. That was the plan anyway. This morning we learned both Google And Apple have removed the Navalny App from their online stores. It was the result of a Pressure Campaign from, you can guess who, the russian government who accused the Tech Companies of wait for it election interference. Joining our coverage, ben rhodes, former deputy national Security Adviser to President Obama. Lucky for us an Msnbc Contributor. Ben, you have spent time with navalny. Talk about this effort, what it was designed to do and whether it could still have an impact. Yeah, this is incredibly important. This concept of Smart Voting is one thats been in the works for years. It is based on the insight that what putin does is tries to divide the opposition. In some cases he encourages different types of Opposition Parties to get involved so the Opposition Vote is split among different parties. What navalny is saying, look, we have an existential threAt To our democracy. We need to put a big tent over all of the opposition that believes the most important thing for russia is to reduce the power of Vladimir Putin and his political party, united russia. We will make it so it is easy for you to understand, if that is your Principle Interest as a voter you can understand does the liberal have the best chance in the race, does the communist have the best chance in this race . However it is, we will send a message we do not support the Direction Putin is taking us in. Clearly Vladimir Putin is very, very scared of that strategy given the crackdown we have seen on navalny himself, his organization and now with the complicity of these u. S. Tech companies the smart Voting App that was going to help make this a possibility. And why did american Tech Companies succumb to pressure . I mean i think across the board, nicolle, our Tech Companies have to determine when is the profit not worth it. You know, when is it just not worth compromising here. You have heroic, courageous people who have basically put their lives on the line to pursue strategies like this, to give russians a chance and a hope for some glimmer of democracy. After all of the work those people did to develop this strategy and to publicize this Strategy And Theyve been talking about it for a very long time and all of the work that goes into not just this app but evaluating who has the best chance in which piece of this election or At The last minute for these companies to bend to the dictate of the russian government, lets just call it putins Inner Circle essentially, it is just not because they Want To keep a russian Market Share . Come on. You know, the people who assumed the risk here are navalny who is sitting in prison and a lot of his associates who have been rounded up and those who fled russia. It has a nauseating echo to Tech Companies complicity in antidemocratic movements. Obviously No One under threAt The way Alexei Navalny is, and im not making that parallel, but to Tech Companies not having the stomach to take an aggressive stand to democracy and democratic movements over the alternative feels like a global problem. It is a huge global problem. It is one of the most important things that contributes to authoritarianism around the world. Look, we talked a lot about facebook and how theyve been responsible for disinformation, and thats undermined democracy everywhere including in the united states. The reality is in some of these places where the authoritarianism is front and center like russia, this is not a subtle move. This is saying we want you to pull down the app threatens the capacity of our candidates to win the election, thats all it is. It was created by russia. It is not like Google And Apple created the app to do the work. Navalny did the work on the app. Tech companies have to make decisions in a lot of different countries about what compromises theyre willing to make. Ultimately, are there a Core Set of values that allow them to evaluate tradeoffs in situations like this. I know you have to run, but tell us quickly what you will be watching for in the elections. I mean im going to be watching if after all of the demoralization in the arrest and imprisonment of navalny and the round up of his network and now this app, do russians turn out . Do they show through their votes and their courage theyre willing to buck putin and his party to send a message . They know this election is not free and fair. They know thAt This election has one inevitable outcome and thats Vladimir Putin and his party are still in power, but can they send a message this is not what russians want . We always hear about Putins Approval ratings. A man with high Approval Ratings wouldnt go to this length to subjugate his opposition. We will be watching, not just for a close election because it is so vastly intimidated and rigged, the circumstances, but can russians send a message there are still people there who believe in democracy and i think there are. Thank you so much for spending time with us. We will come back to you on monday to see what happens. Coming up for us, the 1. 7 Million bill we the people are paying for the Trump Familys luxury habits, even though trump is no longer the countrys president. Thats next. Countrys president. Thats next. Every day can be extraordinary with rich, creamy, Delicious Fage total yogurt. How did we come up with the idea to combine our famous Extr Mac and cheeserich, with our iconic Grilled Cheese . By saying yes. Yes to new inventions yes to clean and fresh ingredients and yes to living life to the flavorfullest. Panera. Live your yes. Order on our app. If you have this. Consider adding this. An Aarp Medicare Supplement Insurance Plan from unitedhealthcare. Medicare supplement plans help by paying some of what medicare doesnt. And let you see any doctor. Any specialist. Anywhere in the u. S. Who accepts medicare patients. So if you have this. Consider adding this. Call Unitedhealthcare Today for your free decision guide. Wow, thats a low price. Wow, thats a low price. Huh. That is a low price. 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Luckily, we havent seen too much of him or really any of his former administration officials. No jared, no ivanka, no steven mnuchin, no mark meadows. I almost forgot what he looks like. We are learning today from some Brandnew Reporting in the Washington Post that you, we, all of us, the taxpayers have been paying for their extra secret Service Protection. New analysis from the Washington Post on Spending Documents shows that in a highly unusual Order Trump ordered six months of extra protection for his four adult children and highlevel officials like steve mnuchen, mark meadows and former national Security Adviser robert obrien. All together all that security totaled 1. 7 Million, a Bill Footed by the american taxpayers who continue to pay for the expresident and his associate. Lets bring in david farenthold. Donny deutsch is here, host of the online podcast. David, first of all tell people what is standard for excabinet officials, adult children for Expresident S. What is extraordinary is thAt They dont get secret Service Protection after the presidency is over. Usually the only ones who keep it typically is the president , the president s spouse, children up to 16. Outgoing president s have extended for children in College But Nothing like trump. Donald Trump Jr. Is 43, the other children in their 20s and 30s. It is a totally different sort of People Trump gave free Aroundtheclock Protection to. Why did he do it then . He has not given any official explanation at all. Theres no president directive. Theres no public order. Theres no nothing that explains why it happened. Frankly, if you look in the law im not sure where the legal authority was for this at all. The lou doesnt create a president ial ability to give six months more. We reached out and said, did you ask for this and when you got it why didnt you turn it down . The only person that responded was steve mnuchen. He said, i didnt ask for this. Once i got it, i didnt turn it down because of some vague warning from security officials. Hes the only one we ask would you give the money back, would you repay it . He said, yeah, i may repay certain parts of it but it hasnt said what. Donny deutsch, lets stipulate if there are any extraordinary threats unprecedented in the history of the american presidency Donald Trump and his children and cabinet should have protection. Barring that, wth. You know, davids reporting is always great. The thing i found particularly egregious was the Mnuchen Part that hes getting hundreds and hundreds of thousands worth of security to go to the middle east to raise money for a venture fund. It is just look, what is built into Donald Trumps brand is he rips not only the taxpayers off, his own voters off. He had to return 112,000 because like a bad magazine subscription, you had to go into the fine print to find you werent going to be charged every month nor the same thing. I love to give the Donald Trump slime ball facts. I read recently in his Bedminster Golf Club he got millions of Dollars Worth of tax breaks because he had a to get on the property and claimed it was a farm. This is the stuff i think youve got i have chickens and i dont do that. Donny, lets talk about the Trump Family as grifters. They have a lot of money. Theyre rich by any assessment and they act like, you know, small town thieves. Why . Because theres a sense of sbielment. It is the Trump Name and i have never met a more entitled Human Being than donald, his kids the same way. Smug jared is the same way. Not only that, it is like what we can get away with we will. The basic moral compasses we use on a daily basis to make decisions about what we do and how we do it is we know where it stands, this entire family, and the off spring and spawn is no different donald himself. David, what is the sort of vehicle for getting to the bottom of this, one whether there are extraordinary threats against Steve Mnuchin and mark meadows, im sure a vast majority of majors have no idea whAt They look like. And making sure the Taxpayer Isnt Sort of hit up for their protection indefinitely. Well, as far as we can tell from looking At The records it looks like the protection for these folks really did stop after six months. That said i think it is important to get to the bottom of was there any justification for, a, why these people needed special protection, and b, if they did why they couldnt provide it for themselves. Steve mnuchin i think his net worth is in the multimillion dollars, and why cant that man pay for his own security if he needs it, why Cant Ivanka and jared pay for their security if they need it. The trump kids like their father would go to trump properties and then charge the Secret Service to follow. Those charges arent that much in the grand scheme of the 2. 4 million budget of the eke is Secret Service, but such an interesting moral question. If you Want To save the taxpayers money, heres your chance, give them a room free At The hotel and they never did. How much was Donald Trumps illusion he was still playing president . I dont think its dilution. Hes a grifter as said earlier. This is actually by far the least offensive thing Donald Trump has done to a broadcast, you start At The tippy top with his running cover for insurrectionists and then we get to bread crumbs At The end where it almost seems juvenile and comical. Its the spectrum of which these last two years the trump grotesqueness, as i said it starts up here and starts with getting people killed by insurrectionists and political violence and then getting his own voters killed by the pandemic and then just fleecing the taxpayers. Were happy to highlight it. Thank you both very much for spending some time with us. 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