Attack. This afternoon a joint chiefs of Staff Spokesman responded in a statement saying in part his calls with the chinese and others in october and january were in keeping with his duties and responsibilities conveying reassurance in order to maintain strategic stability. All calls from the chairman to his counterparts including those reported are staff coordinated and communicated with the Department Of Defense and other agencies. This may not be enough. Some have called for his ouster expected to face tough questions when he testifies before the senate armed Services Committee later this month. But in the meantime, the nations top Military Officer is getting a vote of confidence from the Commander In Chief. Did you Do The Right Thing . Thank you . I have confidence in General Milley. Phil, stay with us. Lets listen to John Kirby. These are in violation of u. N. Security council resolutions and highlight the impact of the illicit weaponS Program. Our commitment to the defense of the republic of Korea And Japan remains ironclad and i think you saw It Statement earlier today about that. This Morning Secretary Austin welcomed the australian minister for defense, Peter Dutton here to the pentagon. Were proud to stand alongside our allies to strengthen deterrence and defend our shared values and interests in the indopacific region. The u. S. Australia Relationship is what were proud to call the unbreakable alliance. Our increasing conversions and alignment on most important strategic rashes atest to The Endure value and cooperating closely on strategic capabilities, Regional Engagement and of course military operations. And ultimately were cooperating on all that strengthens our ability to deter threats. Tomorrow Secretary Austin and Minister Dutton will join secretary of State Blinken and the minister australian Minister Maurice Payne for Two Plus two meetings over there at Foggy Bottom at the state department. The first Aerial Refulting of a Lightning 2 aircraft on monday. The milestone is significant because unmanned tanking capabilities will free up the navys Strike Fighters that are currently carrying out the tanking mission delivering greater Range And Endurance for the Carrier Air Wing to execute missions. Once operational, mq25s will refuel every receiver capable carrier based aircraft. And then finally more on schedule for the navy the secretary of the Navy And Chief of naval operations are hosting more than 100 international delegates including heads of Navy And Coast guards in person and virtually at the u. S. Naval War College in Rhode Island for this years international symposium. It provides a forum for dialogue between international navies and Coast Guards to bolster maritime security and with that well take questions. Bob. Question on the Drill Strike in kabul on august 29th. Was that vehicle tracked and targeted because of its activities and the belief that it was carrying explosives or was it tracked and targeted because the driver was believed or known to be an Isis Operative . Yeah, bob, as you know, Central Command is continuing to assess this strike and i just dont want to get out ahead of their work on this. So you cant say what the reason for targeting it was in the first I Cant speak to that at this time. Ill let centcom complete their work and let them speak to what they find as a result. I think thats the best course right now. Jennifer. John, there are two allegations in the new Woodward Costa Book that have to do with this building in particular, whether General Milley inserted himself into the nuclear launch process. Is there anything unusual that youve seen or that is the Defense Secretary concerned about the reports that General Milley inserted himself tried to stop the president at the time of having the ability to launch nuclear weapons . Can you explain how the Process Works and its been explained to us that he went and just went through and reviewed the procedures and that he told them that they he should be on any Conference Call with the president , that Thats Part of the procedure. Is that part of the nuclear procedures . Im confused. I certainly cant speak to the revelations that are coming out in the book. I think you saw a statement by the Chairmans Office specifically addressing this issue. What i can tell you is that it is not uncommon at all for the department to continue to review security protocols, particularly when it comes to our strategic deterrence capabilities that we constantly take a look at the protocols and procedures to make sure they are still relevant. These have been in place for a long time. A couple of decades and so its not uncommon. Its also completely appropriate and, again, im not speaking to the virginia did very of thing in the book. It is completely appropriate for the chairman of the Joint Chiefs Of Staff as senior Military Adviser to the Secretary And President to want to see those protocols reviewed on whatever frequent basis that he wants to do that. So, again, I Cant speak to the validity but i see nothing in what ive read that would cause concern. What is the Chairmans Term in terms of the nuclear launch if there was a nuclear launch by the president . The chairman is the key Military Adviser to the president , to the Commander In Chief. And in a sequence of events whereby a Commander In Chief would be making that decision, that most grave of decisions, the chairman would be intimately involved in that process in providing Advice And Counsel to both the secretary and to the president , obviously the president in this case makes the final decision and, you know, by statute, by law he is the prime Military Adviser to the president and this would be a Military Decision of profound proportions here and importance so he would be absolutely involved in that Process Soup to nuts. Was there anything unusual said to the chinese counterpart in the Phone Calls as far as you understand . Well, again, all ive seen is the same reporting that youve seen, jen. I cant speak to the specifics of that conversation, a conversation that took place obviously before before this administration took office, but i would add if i may, again, that it is not only common, its expected that a chairman of the Joint Chiefs Of Staff would continue to have counterpart conversations, i mean, he is basically the chief of defense for the united states, we dont call him that but he has chief of defense counterparts around the world and having worked for a chairman myself for quite a bit i can tell you frequent communication with two counts like Russia And China is not atypical at all for a chairman of the joint chiefs and those communications are theyre routine. Theyre staffed. Theyre coordinated. And theyre transparent, as transparent as they can be. Would it also be routine in these conversations if the united states waS Planning to strike one of these locations for the chairman to inform his counterpart that the u. S. Was about to strike as again, im not going to get into confirming or speaking to details. Would that be a common part of these conversations if the united states waS Planning to conduct a strike on a location. Right. Would the chairman then call his counterpart to alert them to an incoming strike . Without speaking to that hypothetical what i again would say parts of the value a part of the value of having these communicationS Particularly with countries like Russia And China with which we are experiencing tension is to try to reduce the risks of Miscalculation And Conflict to, try to take down tensions, to make clear what our national security interests are on you pick the issue and thats the Communication Channel between our chairman and a chief of defense is a really key vehicle for transmitting and communicating those kinds of message. Then has Secretary Austin based off of the stories out of this book, has he instructed General Milley to change any of the ways that hes operating . Has he asked him to inform him more about some of the conversations that hes having . Has there been any practical change on this current absolutely not, no. Not in the least. Has full Trust And Confidence in Chairman Milley and the job hes doing. Laura. Thanks, john. So just following up on the previous questions, as you said, by Law The Chairman is not in the Chain Of Command, so if these allegations are true that General Milley said he would give a headsup to the chinese if we were going to strike them would not be undermining civilian control of the military . Again, im not going to speak to unconfirmed reports from a book that we havent looked at and read yet and certainly not to the conversation that took place before the administration took office. Im not going to go there. I cant understand why youre not denying that that happened, thats a pretty serious allegation. Im not speaking to it at all, Lawyer R its not that im not denying it. Im going to refuse to speak to specific anecdotes that are in this book. Im in no position to do that and i dont think it would be helpful for me to try to speculate one way or the other about the very vasty of these anecdotes. What i can tell you is a chairman any chairman, Chairman Chairman across multiple administrations routinely have communications direct Channel Communications with their counterparts in other countries and it iS Particularly important to have those communications with a Nation State with which there are real and significant tensions to try to reduce those, clear things up, reduce the risk of miscalculation and i think you saw in the statement that the Chairmans Office they put out earlier today that thats exactly what was behind the context here for thiS Particular call, which took place, you know, at a difficult time in our Nations History in thiS Particular transition. Sorry, just to follow up on that point, secretary acting Secretary Miller told Fox News he did not authorize the call and another one of his his Deputy Chief of staff also said in fact it was the policy at the time that there was no senior Government Engagement with china. Is that true . But could that possibly be true . I couldnt i couldnt answer that. I mean, that those were those were before that was the time before we were in office. I cant speak to what the policies were for international communications were, but, again, you saw it in the chairmans statement, why he was having these conversations and you also saw in his statement that those communications were staffed and coordinated. I would point you back to what the chairman said. Yeah. Thank you, john. So you said its routine for the chairman to speak to counterparts in China And Russia and in this context the statement talked about strategic stability so it includes issues related to nuclear capabilities. And you said you worked for the chairman. Can you help us understand. Usually when these type at this level happen, does the Chairman Brief the president or get the green light from the president before such a conversation . Does he brief the president on the conversation and does he get the green light from the secretary of defense or brief him after the conversation . Yeah, it depends. I know thats not a great answer but its a true answer. I mean, we expect a chairman of the Joint Chiefs Of Staff to coordinate and communicate with his counterparts and some of those conversations are about very specific issues that have very, very high Level Interest and there might even be a request made by the chairman to make a call, sometimes the secretary could ask him to do that or even representatives on the national Security Council could say, hey, we think it would be helpful if you reached out to your counterpart and relayed the following message. Sometimes the chairman will, you know, will hell be the one to come up with the idea, hey, i think i need to get on the phone with general or admiral so and so and have a talk about this. But typically regardless of the impetus for that kind of a call, it is read out. It is staffed. Its appropriately coordinated and the chairman or the Chairmans Office will offer a readout of it up the Chain Of Command so that everybody understands it and oftentimes and youve seen this yourself the chairmanS Public Affairs Office will release a public readout not unlike the ones we do when the secretary makes calls. I mean, these are important communications. I mean, they dont just pick up the phone to talk about sports. They talk to iron out issues and so its important that the Inner Agency have a sense of how that went and thats very typical. So the chairman usually coordinates with the White House prior to the conversation, especially if its about certain topics . In a typical call particularly with, you know, a nation like china, that would be a fully coordinated conversation and there would be there would be the sharing of information after the fact. So the White House basically and President Trump back then, former President Trump would actually know about the conversation before taking place and would know what happened in the conversation so for him to say if the allegations made in the book by Woodward And Costa were true, then the chairman should be put on trial for treason. Oh, my goodness. These are not my words. Look, I Cant speak to processes before this administration took office. I just cant. As much as i know youd like me to, i just cant do that. What im telling you is typically that when the chairman or the second, they interact with their counterparts. Its a function of the job. They have to do that, that these conversations are properly coordinated. Thats the way it goes. Now, is every single interaction written down and sent in a memo, probably not. But ones that are, you know that, are of consequence and they almost all are, that they are fully coordinated. I cant speak to processes, you know, previous to January 20th of this year. I can just tell you how were approaching the issue in this administration. Thank you. Make it to the phones, i havent done that yet. Jeff. Thank you. I know the biden administration aspires to be as transparent aS Possible. In that spirit would it be possible to get a transcript of General Milleys October 30th conversation with his chinese counterpart, especially noting that the previous administration released a transcript of President Trumps conversation with president zelensky, so im hoping that this administration can be just as transparent. Jeff, im certainly not going to sign us up to releasing transcripts of conversations that occurred before we took office and i just I Cant do that. Id refer you to the Chairmans Office if you want more context on that but were not in a position to do that. Abraham. Yeah, thank you. I wonder if i could talk about the bilateral relationship with australia. Could you talk about giving chinese aggression in the region, why australia is so strategically important partnership and also can you address a little bit the evolution of the partnership, the training and fighting together with australia . Its been a long, long history that weve had with australia. I think you know that. All right, we are listening to Pentagon Spokesperson John Kirby taking several questions about allegations made in a new Book Reporting in a new book by Bob Costa and Bob Woodward suggesting that Mark Milley injected himself into the Decisionmaking Process there dealing with the nuclear Chain Of Command, the spokesperson saying despite all these questions that he would not comment on the specifics of the reporting but did at one point say specifically that the secretary of defense has full Trust And Confidence in Chairman Milley against the backdrop of some calls from washington for the chairman to resign. Were going to continue to keep an eye on that briefing and see if mr. Kirby does go back and talk about this some more but we do want to bring into the conversation right now phil rucker, senior Washington Correspondent for the Washington Post and an msnbc contributor. Also coauthor of the bestselling book i alone can fix it. Donald j. Trumps final catastrophic Year And Monica Alba And Msnbc Military Analyst retired general barry mccaffrey. Ill start with you, General Mccaffrey there. And it was a point that was brought up towards The End of the segment or the briefing we were just listening to about the transcript of the Phone Call you had for context purposes, retired Lieutenant Colonel Alexander vindman in donald trumps Impeachment Trial tweeted out, if this is true, General Milley must resign. He usurped Authority And Chain of command. Its an extremely dangerouS Precedent. You cant simply walk away from that. I want to get your thoughts on that tweet. What do you make of colonel Vindmans Comments and do you believe milley violated the principle of civilian control over the military based on the report in this book . Oh, Vindmans Comment is shameful. Its astonishing particularly coming from him being in the middle of what in essence was a lawless Administration But Set that aside. Its not terribly important. What is important is not just look, the background that the Dod Spokesman put out is correct. Routinely, the chiefs of services, the chairman of the jfcs have routine contact with our counterparts. ItS Part of the stability of deterrence. Those conversations are always Inner Agency generated. The chairman has a foreign Service Officer as hiS Polad, political adviser and by and large its seen as helpful to include this this case trying to reassure the chinese this isnt the start of World War i, relaxed stand down. They were enhancing their readiness. I dont think they ever would have dreamed of a nuke strike. Thats a separate issue but the real context is we had a trump functionary, a Sycophant Nonsenate confirmed, wholesale fired the senior civilian leadership of the pentagon. Theres only two people that give orders to the armed forces, the president and the secretary of defense. Lots of people in public were and should have been concerned about what looked like a slow rolling coup against the state, acting secretary of homeland security, acting attorney general, trying to fire the cia director, trump was up to generating the conditions to dispute a president ial election. So to that point, General Mccaffrey and i totally appreciate you putting that in the context of what was happening at the time and its kind of hard a little bit to have this conversation without relying on the specific reporting, i know that in itself is a little hard because i dont think anyone would disagree that senior Military Officers have direct communication with their counterparts but i think the specifics of what was communicated which is this idea that the united states would tell china certainly through Chairman Milley that we would not attack china to try to get them to be at ease despite everything that theyre seeing play out in washington, d. C. Would that specifically be something of an alarm to you, that the military would somehow and we know that china is considered, widely considered as an adversary according even to the pentagon that we would communicate to our adversaries of a possible Attack Or Strike . Look, all he was doing was banging away at the guy to say, relax, dont worry, i mean would the chinese believe that the chairman would call him in advance of an attack, no. If he did, would they see that aS Part of a deception plan, we shouldnt focus on that the key was he had a personal relationship for five years running with the senior chinese military, we were concerned about the south China Sea confrontations over taiwan enhanced chinese nuclear capability, hes trying to calm down the situation and that was an appropriate use of the chairmans authority. Now, the nuclear thing inserting himself in the Chain Of Command, thats a one place in the book that there may be a little problem. The chairman is not a commander, he has no legal authority to give orders to the armed forces. And in addition, its clear that the president can pick up the phone, call the strike on commander and in Theory Order a nuclear strike without anybody saying anything. Weve seen the same thing, the final days of nixon. There was understandable general anxiety, not just in the Country But Trump is trying to overthrow the constitution. And so when it comes to nukes, we have a zero defect policy, its twoman control, no single guy can make a decision. Theres a separate Security System that guards the secrets of the nuclear strike force, so, again, i think it was appropriate. The chairman is in there saying, look, im a little bit concerned that we all understand how thiS Process works. Thats what was going on. Monica, President Biden says that he still has confidence in General Milley. It is against something that John Kirby said in regards to the secretary of defense saying he also has confidence in General Milley. How are these revelations being viewed behind the scenes at the White House . Are there worries this could blow up further and cause more problems for the president . Well, a couple of things, i thought it was notable the question that waS Posed to President Biden Just A Little Bit ago was, did General Milley Do The Right Thing and the president didnt want to touch on that or get into that debate, instead he simply offered his great confidence and that is something now we are hearing across the administration. Secondly, there are a lot more questions to be asked about this series of Phone Calls and what was happening surrounding the January 6th insurrection and we know that General Milley is going to be testifying before congress at The End of the month so the White House doesnt want to get in front of what may be perhaps either more controversial or problematic situations when it arises to this. Right, theyre not shutting the door and saying we believe that if this as reported is what happened we are okay with it and were going to move on. This is an evolving story. The other critical thing here is that white House Press Secretary Jen Psaki did say that given over the last eight months the president has worked so closely with General Milley that he believes he is a man of great patriotism and she said that it is the obligation of any chairman in thiS Position to essentially do what in terms of the reporting were learning from the new book is what General Milley did in those moments, again, they dont want to get into the specifics of the call but its worth pointing out neither the pentagon nor the White House is denying that these calls took place or the broad stroegs of all of that, instead they dont want to have this larger conversation necessarily about the Chain Of Command because, of course, then it presents this other hypothetical for their current administration if something even similar were to occur even though the white Houses Line on that, in terms of what was happening and in terms of the many republican calls for the removal of General Milley, which, again, we dont believe there are any signs of given the confidence that the pentagon and here at the White House, the White House is saying this is coming from the same republican leaders they argue Who Fomented What President Trump at the time was stoking leading up to the January 6th insurrection so they dismissed those pretty quickly out of hand, eamon. Of course, everyone remembers General Milley i believe a letter he sent to Members Of Congress assuring them that the military had no role to play in the outcome of the u. S. Election. Phil, i know that you are among the many people who have spent a great deal of Time Delving into what happened during the Trump Presidency that both monica and General Mccaffrey were talking about, that context that is so important to understanding the backdrop against which these Phone Calls and comments by the chairman were reportedly made. What do these new revelations tell us about what was really going on during trumps final month in office and just how concerned the highest levels of our government were about trumps behavior . Eamon, the concern about trumps behavior ran deep and it wasnt just General Milley who was concerned about the president s instability and what could happen if he in a fit of rage were to launch some sort of a strike against an adversary around the world but the other Joint Chiefs Of Staff, the heads of the army, air force, navy, they were concerned as well about the president s State Of Mind and about the possibility that President Trump would use hiS Powers as the Commander In Chief to effectively execute a coup to stay in power despite losing a free and fair election. There were concerns that we reported in our book that milley had with the other joint chiefs, Costa And Woodward have this interesting transcript about the Phone Call on January 8th between Milley And House Speaker Nancy Pelosi in which they both appeared to be likeminded about the president being in pelosis words crazy about his mental instability and about the concerns that they both shared about someone of that nature of that State Of Mind having the control of nuclear weapons in this country. General mccaffrey, you know, out of all of us you would obviously know more than anyone about this but talk to us, shed light if you can on this for us, would it be normal for the chairman of the joint chiefs to brief President Trump or at least tell President Trump he had this Phone Call with his counterpart since it was about such a grave matter of national security, because its not clear if President Trump, then President Trump was aware of what General Milley and others at the pentagon were doing or saying in these closed meetings, how high up the Chain Of Command would conversations like these be reported back to the White House . Well, it depends. A lot of conversations are routine, there is an inner Agency Process of five or more cabinet officials might contact an Add Ver Saar Value Country so that theres a united message that were trying to convey and this case, look, whats really going on is a major concern by the armed forces, by Members Of Congress, by the media, by me that trump was trying to overthrow the constitution in a slow rolling coup. This Minor Action by milley, at The End of the day this, is highly unusual behavior in the government. We were worried, many people, i think in public life that he was going to try avoid allowing biden to take office. Thats what he was doing. A lot of it was in public. We didnt need the woodruff and Costa Book to find out. He had fired, decapitated the civilian leadership of the Department Of Defense. All right, general barry mccaffrey, monica, phil, thanks for staying with us throughout the breaking news. Greatly appreciate it. A new development in the biden Administrations Effort to halt the nations strictest Abortion Law now in effect in texas. Last night the Justice Department asked a federal judge to block enforcement of the controversial ban that prohibits most abortions after six weeks of pregnancy before many women even know that theyre pregnant. The doj called The Law, quote, an unprecedented scheme and argued it violates womens continentalal rights. Joined by maya wiley. Of course, an msnbc legal analyst. Thanks for your patience. The Supreme Court already declined to block The Law the first time around, so on what grounds, On What Legal Grounds could a federal judge now step in and put a stop to the implementation of this law . Thats exactly the right question, eamon and the short answer is what the Department Of Justice is saying is, look, were the united states of america. We have our own obligations under the constitution to protect the constitutional rights of women. So that isnt just where Abortion Providers but where the united states standing up to protect the constitutional rights of women and theres an additional argument they can make that couldnt be made before, which is that they as, for example, operating the Federal Bureau Of Prisons with inmates who are women and a constitutional obligation for those women to be able to get full reproductive health services including the right to abortion that this law in texaS Prevents the federal government from exercising what it considers to be the standing constitutional law of the united states of america and saying that this is in direct contravention of roe v. Wade. I think its a strong argument in that sense. Even Chief Justice the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court agreed that he would have enjoined this law from going into effect so thats the way theyre approaching it and theyre saying if the burden of Proof Wasnt prove anyone that previous case, we think were making it now as a federal government. One of the legal things that a lot of expertS Pointed out and certainly differentiates it from others is that in some ways, It Em powerS Private citizens to sue women who get an abortion, to report on doctors and even an Uber Driver who may be driving a woman to get an abortion. Anyone who facilitates it. Do we know of any cases so far of anyone bringing such allegations against people in texas . I personally dont know of any cases. I do know that advocates have been saying that they have been feeling the pressure and that there are folks organizing, in other words, an attempt to get essentially a social Media Page in order to help vigilantes essentially find the way to sue people. So there is no question that theres an Organizing Effort to try to use this law, but really what is so evil in my view about this from a constitutional perspective is The Law is designed to simply make it impossible for Health Care providers to provide all the reproductive rights that women have by making it just really difficult for them to do it without being in fear of violating The Law. So essentially part of what the federal government is saying is, look, they are doing an end around around the constitution by being too cute by half to say we the State Arent doing it. Were not getting in the way of a womans right to choose, were just creating a situation where anyone who would be asked to provide an abortion has to be so fearful about being dragged into court that they wont be able to do it and that is exactly why the united states brought this action. Yeah, it is what activists are calling a Chilling Effect that will have consequences for years to come. Maya wiley, thank you so much, always for your time and insights. I greatly appreciate it. Always good to be with you. Still ahead florida governor Ron Desantis threatens to fine ciies millions if they impose vaccine requirements on their employees. We are live in one county requiring workers to vaccinate or at least submit to testing. But first lets get a quick check of the markets before trading day closes, stocks are higher today. The dow up more than 270 points, the S P up about 40 points and the nasdaq up more than 120 points. Thinkorswim trading equips you with customizable tools, dedicated Trade Desk pros, Market Wrap sponsored by td ameritrade. Thinkorswim trading™ from td ameritrade. Want your clothes to smell freshly washed all day without heavy perfumes . Try new downy Light Inwash Scent beads. It has longlasting Light Scent, no heavy perfumes, and no dyes. Finally, a Light Scent that lasts all day. New Downy Light lighting from 25. 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Serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. Tell your doctor if youve been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if youve had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flulike symptoms or sores. Dont start humira if you have an infection. Be there for you and them. Ask your gastroenterologist about humira. With humira, remission iS Possible. Right now more than 24 states have experienced an increase in new covid19 cases over the last two weeks. Heres the latest headlines in the covid19 pandemic. Since the pandemic began one out of every 500 americans has died of covid19. That is according to new data from johns hopkins university. Right now the Death Toll in the u. S. Stands at more than 668,000 lives lost. With just over a month to go before the Nba Season kicks off the league announced players will not be required to vaccinate. Instead unvaccinated players will have to undergo regular testing. The league said that so far around 85 of itS Players were vaccinated by The End of last season. In florida despite a drop in new cases over the last two weeks hospitals across the state are overwhelmed with sick patients. More than 9 of the States Icu beds are being used according to the latest data from the department of health and human services. Joining me from orlando, florida, Nbc News reporter maura barrett. Good to have you with us. Even as hospitals continue to struggle for beds in their Intensive Care Units you have Floridas Governor Ron Desantis still threatening local leaders with fines if they take steps to reduce the spread of covid19. Explain that to us. What is the latest that is happening there in florida . Rell, ayman, this is just the latest move and just general safety precautions he is saying any County Or City that enacted mandates he will fine them 5,000 per employee effective that might not have a job anymore if they dont get vaccinated or submit to testing required by the county and hes saying this is because workers deserve to have a choice and he wants to protect florida jobs. The mayor here in orange county, though, defending his requirements saying that he wants to keep his residents and workers here safe. I want you to hear some of the audio from earlier this week when fines were announced. Take a listen. Im not going to take actions that will adversely impact the safety of our community. Sometimes quite favrely i question whether or not the governor really sees it that way. He may say that he does but i believe that many of the decision thats makes are clearly politically motivated. Those of us at the local level, were kind of stuck in the middle of trying to take care of our citizens. Reporter so its more of these political lines being drawn and the face of protecting people against the coronavirus and as you mentioned this all also comes as Icu Capacity across the state and most of the southern region are dwindling. Florida is just one of five states with less than 10 capacity and to put that into perspective when it comes to Icu Availability theres typically about 20 availability at a national level right now and then here in orlando specifically theres typically 600 beds available but just 30 right now. Nurses and doctors telling nbc that they have multiple patients in one room all on breathing machines, seeing younger severe patients and these are all again largely unvaccinated people that are suffering in these nurses and doctors are just feeling very emotionally fatigued saying theyre trying to make a difference but that they cant because these people didnt get vaccinated, ayman. Thank you, as always, joining me is dr. Kavita patel. Dr. Patel, great to have you back. As you saw from a reporter in florida, how concerned are you about the impact the Governors Threat of fines will have on public health across the state . He is, it seems more preoccupied with finding the local leaders, local Community Leaders trying to do what they can to prevent the spread of the pandemic. Yeah, ayman, its concerning not just because of the threat impact on what local leaders are trying to do but sends a confusing message to the entire state if not the whole country because it throws into what could be just a very well organized well communicated effort to get people vaccinated to get treatment where appropriate, to help the Health Care workers trying to take care of all these patients, that does not have to be that complicated. These issues, these tensionS Play out and unfortunately dominate when i would love to see lawmakers, teachers, officials, doctor, people such as you and me talking about what can we do to stay healthy and prevent the next surge but instead being displaced by frankly malpractice. If the governor were a physician, he should have his license taken away. Let me play for you a moment from todays White House press briefing. Watch this. Whats the white House Message to american was are so pessimistic right now. Our message is we understand your frustration. This has been a long haul. The second piece is that the president made clear last week hes going to use ever lever possible from the federal government to reduce the spread of covid to protect more people to save more lives. Are there any steps, dr. Patel, that you think the administration can take to help address that Exhaustion And Frustration that americans are feeling especially when you see parts of the country that just refuse to get or unwilling to get vaccinated while the rest of the country gets further dragged into this as a result of it. Yeah, look, ayman, theres definitely levers the president can pull, hes intimated or cabinet officials mentioned, for example, asking for testing on dough domestic or international travel. Another point of fatigue, we really did find that when masks were lifted, when the cdc said back in may that you dont have to wear a mask if youve been vaccinated, that might have been premature, ayman, but we are coming close to a point where i think the american public needs to understand here are the thresholds where we will let you go without wearing a mask or where we dont recommend wearing a mask indoors and, ayman, we can get there. Were seeing Case Rates declining. It is within our reach. And imagine how much better we would feel going into the Holiday Season that we have the confidence of not getting into another surge but being able to see loved Ones Expression and gather indoors safely. We can do it if were vaccinated but letting the minority dominate what 75 of us have already taken the first step to do, get vaccinated and protected. We are all in this together so it does matter what everyone else is doing. Dr. Kavita patel, always a pleasure. Thank you. Coming up, today marks 58 years since the bombing of the 16th Street Baptist Church that killed four little girls. That changed our nation, No Doubt about it. It shaped our next guests life. Well tell you about that. Youre watching Ayman Mohyeldin reports. Zero heartburn. Because life starts when heartburn stops. Take the challenge at prilosecotc dot com. If youre 55 and up, T Mobile haS Plans built just for you. Whether you need a single line or lines for family members, youll get great value on americas most reliable 5g network. Like 2 lines of unlimited for just 27. 50 a line. Only at tmobile. This is the planning effect. If you ask suzie about the future, shell say shes got goals. And since shes got goals, she might need help reaching them, and so shell get some help from fidelity, and at fidelity, someone will help her create a plan for all her goals, which means suzie will be feeling so good about that plan, she can just enjoy right now. Thats the planning effect, from fidelity. Without my medication, my small tremors would be extreme. I was diagnosed with parkinsons. I had to retire from law enforcement. It was devastating. One of my medications is Three Thousand dollarS Per month. Prescription drugs do not work if you cannot afford them. Aarp is fighting for americans like larry, and we wont stop. Thats why were calling on congress to let medicare negotiate lower Prescription Drug prices. Mission control, we are go for launch. Tminus two minutes and counting. Um, shes eating the rocket. Copy that, shes eating the rocket. I assume we needed that . [chomping sound] lunchables built to be eaten. She has eaten the rocket. [girl burps] over. It has been 58 years since a white supremacist bombed the 16th Street Baptist Church in birmingham, alabama, killing four young girls. 11yearold denise mcnair, 14yearold carole robertson, addie mae. He remembers where he was when that bomb detonated and the way the fear consumed the people he loved. Bishop lowe joins me now, now the pastor of guiding light, his own church in birmingham, alabama. I greatly appreciate your time to look back and remember this important day that changed our country. Tell us what you remember from that day. I remember the day very well. I remember being in Sunday School class. We just ended Sunday School class. I waS Playing around with some of my classmates of the Sunday School class when all of a sudden there was this loud noise and i became aware of glass flying in from the window where we were and i remember shielding myself, not knowing what was going on. A loud noise and then the glass comes in and receiving several cuts on my body as a result of that not truly knowing what had gone on. I remember falling to the floor and looking around and seeing and hearing the sounds of people screaming and hollering and just looking to try to see and there was dust that was everywhere. And when i regained my senses about what was happening, i got up and started looking around. I had my sisters that were in the church at the time. And i began looking for them. I didnt know what had happened. I thought maybe something electrical had gone off. And then it occurred to me that perhaps some of the things i had feared before, that we had been bombed like so many other churches i had heard had been bombed before. Even at my age i knew there were bombings that occurred. And i thought, is that what has happened here . I came out and i looked in the auditorium and there were people that were running everywhere and i looked and saw my sister under a table with her Sunday Schoolteacher. I remember it very well. I can tell you so much about it. I dont know how much you want to know. I can tell you have a very vivid memory of it because it was such a jarring experience that changed this country. Im curious to get your thoughts on the lessons we should take from that tragedy. What lessons did we learn or should we learn . The lessons we should learn from that day is that hatred never accomplishes anything. I did develop a hatred at that point in time. There was a period in time i actually hated white people because all i could see at the age of 11 was i heard of all the bombings that occurred and when i heard about the lives of the four girls and one of which i happened to like. I thought we had a friendship. At 11 it is not much but she was taken away. And then hearing about one of the girls heads being blown off, it a hatred in my heart. Also from that experience it led me to come to an understanding that i could be full of Hate And Anger or find something better and what i found better was the love of christ, the love of god, the message given and delivered on that day was a love that forgives. And i had to come to grips whether i was going to be angry, a black, angry american, or i was going to find true peace in the word of god. And i found that. That is the reason im a Minister Today to help people in the world to learn that love is the only answer that we have and that love can only be found from the word of god. Bishop james lowe, thank you for joining us and sharing your insights and words with us. We greatly appreciate it as we look back on this day. Thank you. Before we go i wanted to let you know that this weekend i will be launching my new show ayman. We will have interviews with and conversations about the biggest political and cultural stories of the week. You can catch it saturdays at 8 00 p. M. Eastern, sundays at 9 00 p. M. Here on msnbc. But for now ill see you back here tomorrow at 3 00 p. M. Eastern. Deadline White House with Nicolle Wallace starts right after this quick break. Nicolle wallace starts right after this quick break ce in the nutritional drink you choose. Try boost glucose control. 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