With us. Coming today is not easy and i recognize that you each had the option of respectfully declining the invitation to be here. But you didnt. And i hope that you understand that your presence here is not just so important to the members of this committee, to the senate as a body, but also speaks volumes for the countless victims of abuse that are out there listening or watching or will listen. Or will watch. I appreciate the conversation about Mental Health prompted by the questions from senator booker. My wife is a very active mental Health Advocate and so she has trained me well to be cognizant of those issues and ask important and timely questions as well. And ms. Biles, i hope you might have heard about some of our amplification of your courage from the most recent olympics to take care of yourself first. That took a lot. Ill just offer a few comments. I think most of the questions that i would raise have been raised by my colleagues. But i want to make it clear that while nassars criminal cases have been closed, we cannot and will not ignore the missteps that enabled his rampant misconduct. The Power Structure has no place in america. Not today, not in our future. And if were to achieve the Heist Eye highest ideals of our nation, we talk about Fairness And Equality so often, then we wont just ask why. We cannot give up until we get the answers as to why this man was allowed to use his position of power to abuse for so long. We wont just ask why. We commit to getting the answers to why the initial investigation into these matters was bungled. And lastly we commit ourselves to building a Justice System that holds powerful people, learning from this particular case, but holds other powerful people accountable for their actions. So again, my main message to you, just thank you. Through your participation, well learn and we hope to better protect future generations. Thank you, senator. Senator ossoff. Thank you again to All Of You for being here and being so direct with us and enduring this experience. I just want to assure you that ive listened and heard what you are demanding. And the Burden Shouldnt be on you to see that there is not immunity in this case. Personnel at the fbi, Jay Abbott and his subordinates, Steve Penny, Usa Gymnastics, u. S. Olympic and Paralympic Committees, the burden is ours in the u. S. Senate to see that there is a full investigation that there is personal accountability and institutional accountability for abuse, enablement of abuse, neglectful and improper Law Enforcement conduct, and i think compelling evidence potential Obstruction Of Justice and official corruption in this case as well. So thank you again for your testimony. Ill make sure that you of your families and representatives have Contact Information for me and for my office and continue to work with my colleagues to ensure that justice is done. Thank you. Thank you, senator ossoff. Ms. Biles, ms. Maroney, ms. Nichols, ms. Raisman, thanks for your testimony today. It was historic and it will make a difference in the lives of many people who are witnessing it. You dont have to wait for the judges to put numbers up on the board. You all were gold Medalists Today because of justice. So thank you for joining us. Youre excused. Thank you. Thank you. Good day, this is Andrea Mitchell reports with breaking news, the stunning emotional testimony from four star gymnasts, three olympic medalists and household names. They were speaking out in a Senate Hearing over the fbis mishandling in the investigation of Sexual Abuse claims against Larry Nassar. Nassar will spend the rest of his Life In Prison after pleading guilty to Criminal Zuks all Miscon Dupgt charges for abuse the women and girls who say that they were molested by him. This morning all four women sharing their stories with the nation. In sacrificing my childhood for the chance to compete for the united states, i am haunted by the fact that even after i reported my abuse so many women and girls had to suffer at the hands of nassar oig. They quietly allowed nassar to slip out the Side Door knowingly allowing him to continue his work at msu, fair row hospital, a usag club and even run for school board. Nassar found more than 100 new victims to molest. It was like serving innocent children up to a pedophile on a silver platter. Lets be honest. By not taking immediate action from my report, they allowed a Child Molester to go free for more than a year. And this inaction directly allowed Nassars Abuse to continue. What is the point of reporting abuse if our own fbi agents are going to take it upon themselves to bury that report in a drawer . I dont want another young gymnast, olympic athlete or any individual to experience the horror that i and hundreds of others have endured before, during and continuing to this day in the wake of the Larry Nassar abuse. Joining me now, Anne Thompson on Capitol Hill. Four time olympic medalist, and also espns investigative reporters John Barr and Dan Murphy who literally wrote the book on all of this. Forgive me if im a little just horrified, the impact of watching those courageous women was just stunning. Ann, weve covered a lot of stories, a lot of very powerful stories and some of the testimony so explicit that well have some warnings for people to make sure that children are not in the room for this segment. And there was so much courage and emotion. Mckayla maroney, you know, unable to Take That final question because she had taken a pause to recover. Andrea, i couldnt help think as i watched these four young women who had all worn the red white hand blue and represented the u. S. In what we thought were under extraordinary pressure, the olympics, world championships, i cant imagine a more difficult moment for them now because they detailed some of them did the abuse they endured at nassars hands. Mckayla maroney telling a horrible story of how he gave her a Sleeping Pill on a flight to tokyo and then when she woke up in her hotel room, she was naked and he was on top of her molesting her. And they told adults and no one did anything. And that was the most heartbreaking thing. And as Simone Biles said, how much is a little girl worth. That is the question she asks. And what they found out was the answer was not much because even after they reported that he was abusing them, he still walked scotfree, no one believed them. And he abused at least they say 70 to 100 girls afterwards. It was heartbreaking. What they are demanding is accountability, not just there Usa Gymnastics, not just from the u. S. Olympic and Paralympic Committee, but from the fbi which ignored their reports, which ignored their testimony. Mckayla maroney said they actually lied about what she said. And youre right, andrea, for all four of these women, this is a triggering event. It brings it all back, it exhausts them. Aly raisman spoke in detail about how when she talks about her abuse then suddenly weeks afterwards she has no energy. She is 27 years old, she said that she couldnt even stand in the shower because she is so exhausted from it. They are still paying a price for that abuse. And they are still looking for justice. And as women who have been abused, women and girls, know, this stays with you for the rest of your life. It affects your relationships, all kinds of relationships for the rest of your life. John barr, i want to play part of what anne was just referring to Mckayla Maroneys testimony. I want to let people have children leave the room because it is explicit, but that is part of the testimony in a criminal case. First thing Larry Nassar said to me was to change into shorts with no underwear because that would make it easier for him to work on me. And within minutes he had his fingers in my vagina. The fbi then immediately asked did he insert fingers into your rectum . I said no. Did he use gloves . No. They asked if this treatment ever helped me. I said no, it never did. This treatment was 100 abuse and never gave me any relief. I began crying at the memory over the phone and there was just dead silence. I was so shocked at the agents disregard for my trauma. After that minute of silence, he asked, is that all . Those words in itself was one of the worst moments of this entire process for me. To have my abuse be minimized and disregarded by the people who were supposed to protect me just to feel like my abuse was not enough. I mean, what comes to mind, why was that Telephone Interview . What about the Power Structure at michigan state and the Athletic Department . Yeah, if ever there was evidence that we need a more female investigators, that we need more traumainformed investigators, that was it. You know, it wasnt so much that the fbi ignored these women, but when agents finally did engage, how did they engage. They clearly engaged in a way that left them feeling even worse about coming forward to report Larry Nassar. And then you add to that the testimony that we heard and the information that weve gotten from the Inspector General thatted the former Special Agent in charge of the Indianapolis Field office, instead of working on this case as he should have been, three months after getting a report from Usa Gymnastics in the summer of 2015 that Special Agent in charge is sitting down for beers with the ceo of Usa Gymnastics talking about a possible Job Opening, a Security Job at the u. S. Olympic committee. You know, schmoozing with the ceo of Usa Gymnastics instead of investigating complaints. Aly raisman testified that it took 14 months after her initial complaint to Usa Gymnastics for anyone from the fbi to even call her. And nichols was the first person to come forward and tell her story, and she said it took more than a year for the fbi to reach out to her. Senators used strong words today, they used the word neglect, they used dereliction of duty, gross incompetence. Those are all powerful words, but what these gymnasts want and i spoke to their attorney John Manley yesterday, what they want is real accountability. They would like to see these men federally charged. Mckayla maroney testified that the agent falsified her report. And the agent who sat down for beers talking about a Job Opening with the head of Usa Gymnastics . According to the office of Inspector General, he lied not once but twice about applying for that job when there was evidence to the contrary. If you lie to a federal officer, that is a crime. And if anyone should know that, it is a federal officer. All such important information. Dominic, i want to play more from Aly Raisman about what she said about the girls who went to see dr. Nassar and about survivors guilt. I cant tell you how horrifying it is to meet young girls who look up to me, who watched me compete in the olympics and tell me that they went to see nassar because of me and my teammates, because they wanted to see the olympic doctor. And i guess in his office nassars office, he had photos of us. And so they went to see him because they thought that it was so cool to have the same doctor as us. And so that has been one of the hardest and most devastating parts for me is so many survivors suffer with guilt and shame. And so it takes everything i have to work on not taking the blame for that because it is it is horrific. You know these women and dozens of others who suffered because of Larry Nassar. How important is Todays Hearing to showcase these horrors . Todays hearing is so important and it was so heartwrenching for me to watch being that i lived in that toxic culture of gymnastics and that is how Larry Nassar was able to abuse the hundreds of women that he abused. I knew him for nearly ten years of my childhood. He was a friend. However, he was clearly a wolf in sheeps clothing. One thing that stood out for me with this Hearing Ways what aly said was Safe Sport. It took me back to the level of abuses that i had as a child and i immediately got a call from Usa Gymnasticss Attorney because they saw it as a threats. He let me know that i could call him between 7 00 a. M. And 11 00 p. M. Not once did i get immediate response from Safe Sport. And so when aly said they rely are a not doing their job, there is not an organization that is safe for these athletes to go to when they want to report the level of Trauma And Abuse that they experienced, she is exactly right. There needs to be an independent investigation as well with regards to the Nassar Case so that we know who knew what when and they need to hold each and every one of those individuals that knew what was going on to the fire. And so what will there be, what followup will there be about Usa Gymnastics . These are some of the questions that Aly Raisman was also asking. I wanted to play that. I think that it is really important to look at the connection between the fbi, Usa Gymnastics and united states olympic and Paralympic Committee and we cannot believe that there is a safer future for children unless we fully understand every single thing that happened. And Usa Gymnastics does say that they have done investigations, but those were not completely independent and the scope of the investigation matters. Nobody should be offlimits. It should go back decades and that has not been done and it has been something that weve been asking for for years and years. And so i personally would like to see all three organizations completely investigated. And dan, if you could give me your prescriptions. But Fbi Chris Wray has started and then well switch to that. I think that they are still in the middle of settling civil lawsuits that will cost them hundreds of millions of dollars. And they are trying to reform the way that they handle these type of claims. Frankly, until they take a more real and believing look at what these athletes tell them and giving athletes a bigger vice, voice, the problem will persist. The pattern has been when these complaints come forward, people in charge are more concerned with protecting the brand, the moneymaking apparatus of these organizations, instead of the athletes who are fueling them. And until that changes, i dont think anyone will have a lot of faith in the system. Just lets dip into a bit of what Chris Wray is saying. He was not the Fbi Director when this all happened. He took over. And this is why and how he says he tried to get up to speed on this. Independent work, i want to be Chris Taketaketal clear, Action And Inaction of the fbi employees detailed in this report are totally unacceptable. These individuals betrayed the Core Duty that they have of protecting people. They failed to protect young women and girls from abuse. And the work we do certainly is often complicated and uncertain. And were they have never going to be perfect. But the kind of fundamental errors made in this case in 2015 and 2016 should never have happened. Period. As long as im Fbi Director im committed Doing Everything in my power to make sure they never happen again. The fbi cannot carry out its vital mission of protecting the american people without trust. And in this case fbi agents, certain fbi agents, broke that trust repeatedly and inexcusably. And to pretend otherwise would be yet one more insult to the survivors. Failures like the ones that happened in this case threaten the very confidence we rely on every day to keep people safe. So i want to make sure the public knows that the reprehensible conduct reflected in this report is not representative of the work that i see from our 37,000 folks every day. The action instead Chris Wray saying that High School reprehensible and defending his current workforce. That remains to be seen. Anne thompson, this is going to spark followups from the senate and programs the house and followups to what well hear from the Inspector General. One of the basic questions, how did they not recognize child Sexual Abuse. Why was it so dismissed by the Indianapolis Field office, why was the agent in charge more interested in a job with Usa Gymnastics than pursuing this case . Why did the Indianapolis Field office ignore what Mckayla Maroney had told them, what things she hadnt even told her mother . There are so many unanswered questions. And one of the things that senators are going to ask Chris Wray today, Director Wray, what are you doing to make sure this doesnt happen again. What guidelines, what guardrails can you put in place to make sure that every complaint of Sexual Abuse is thoroughly investigated. And then the question, Dan Murphy, is investigated by whom and how . Why arent they inperson interviews and why arent there Women Agents involved. Yeah, i think that the report shows so clearly, this is some of the most high profile athletes in our country and the most decorated athletes in our country who are receiving this kind of treatment when they bring serious Abuse Concerns forward. And we pay attention to this case because of the names involved in some way, but this is common for so many other women and people who come forward to try to report abuse to Law Enforcement and i think it is a great example of all the changes and reforms that need to be made in order for those abuse claims to really be taken seriously for everyone, not just those who get the type of attention that would draw a Senate Hearing committee. And John Barr, to follow up on dans celebrity point, there are programs throughout this country for little girls in gymnastics. And what kind of abuse occurs outside of the spotlight, you know, not with Gold Medal winners and not with investigations on the national scale, but just in High School programs, junior High School programs. Absolutely. And it bears repeating that hundreds of girls and young women who were victims of Larry Nassar were by and large Club Level gymnasts in michigan, many competed at a Gym Called Twistars gymnasticses right outside of lansing where Larry Nassar came on monday evenings. Parents were more than thrilled to sign their daughters up for sessions with dr. Nassar, you know, this doctor who gained some measure of Fame And Notoriety for cheating olympians. One of the young women who was at Todays Hearing who did not testify, she was seated behind the four national team members, she was one of the more than 500 women who say that Larry Nassar sexually assaulted them during purported treatment sessions. Caylee has the distinction of saying that she was assaulted before the women went to Usa Gymnastics in June Of 2015 and after during that period of Fbi Inaction and incompetence. And how must she feel to hear u. S. Senators say the fbi failed. How must she feel to hear the fbis own director acknowledge that mistakes were made. Those mistakes led to abuse of real people like caylee lorenz. And lets go back to Director Wray because he is talking about what actions have been taken excuse me. Weve got the i. G. Who has taken over. But what Director Wray was saying, that actions have been taken against some of them. Lets listen to the Inspector General showed remarkable bravery in detailing the Sexual Assaults they endured, at the very same time they were competing at the highest levels for our country. They did so with the belief that their actions would save other young women and girls from the serial abuse they endured. Sadly as detailed in our report, the response received by the fbi betrayed their Law Enforcement responses and their duties to these victims. Nassars abuses could and should have been stopped sooner if appropriate action had been taken. Not only did that not occur but after the agents failures came to light, records were created that inaccurately described their handling of the matter and falsely summarized the testimony as you heard. Further when called to account for their actions, two of the agents lied to our oig investigators. The oig was able to identify these failures only because of the courage of the athletes who spoke to our investigators. What they did was extraordinarily difficult. And i want to thank them for their Cooperation And Strength in coming forward and speaking to us. Because of their actions, critical reforms are being undertaken to ensure that events such as these do not occur again. Let me briefly summarize the results of our investigation. In july 2015, Usa Gymnastics reported the Sexual Assault allegations against nassar to the fbis Indianapolis Field office. Usa gymnastics officials described graphic information that had been provided by ms. Maroney, ms. Nichols and ms. Raisman and performed the fbi that all three athletes were available to be interviewed. However it wasnt until six weeks later on September 2 that the Indianapolis Office interviewed ms. Maroney by telephone as you heard and neither ms. Nichols nor ms. Raisman were ever interviewed by that office. Moreover, the Indianapolis Office did not formally document its interview of ms. Maroney at the time or its July Meeting with Usa Gymnastics. The office also didnt formally open an investigation or an assessment of the matter. Immediately following that September 2 interview, the Indianapolis Office and local federal prosecutors concluded there was no venue In Indianapolis for the federal investigation. Both offices also had serious questions as to whether there was federal criminal jurisdiction as opposed to state or local jurisdiction. Yet the Indianapolis Field office didnt advise state or local authorities about the allegations and didnt take any actions to mitigate the risks to gymnasts that nassar was continuing to treat. Further that office failed to transfer the case to the Fbi Office that actually might have had venue despite informing Usa Gymnastics that it had actually done so. After eight months of fbi inactivity, in may 2016, Usa Gymnastics officials contacted the Fbis Los Angeles Field Office to report the same allegations that it provided to the Indianapolis Office. Following this meeting, the l. A. Office opened a federal investigation and undertook numerous investigative steps. But critically it didnt Contact State or local authorities and it didnt take action to mitigate the ongoing threat presented by nassar. It wasnt until August 2016 when michigan State University police, that Police Department, received a separate sexual Assault Complaint from another gymnast and in September 2016, the next month, the msu Police Department executed a court authorized search of nassars residence. Among other things, they seized devices containing over 30,000 images of child pornography. According to Civil Court documents, approximately 70 or more young athletes were allegedly sexually abuse by the nassar under the guise of medical treatment between when the fbi first receiveds allegations until September 2016. And we further found when the Nassar Handling came under scrutiny in 2017 and 2018, Indianapolis Officials provided inaccurate information to make it appear that they had actually been diligent in their followup efforts and did so in part by blaming others. In addition, it resulted in the indianapolis supervisory Special Agent Drafting A Sumgry of his telephonic interview of ms. Maroney from 2015 and that summary included statements as you heard from ms. Maroney that didnt accurately reflect what she had told them and could have actually jeopardized the criminal investigations by providing by including false information that could have bolstered nassars defense. Further we concluded that that agent made false testimony statements to the oig in two interviews that we conducted. We also learned during our investigation that in the fall of 2015 the fbi In Indianapolis Special Agent in charge Jay Abbott met with Usa Gymnastics president Steve Penny at a bar and discussed the potential Job Opportunity with the u. S. Olympic committee. There after, abbott engaged with penny about both his interests in the u. S. Olympic Committee Job and the Nassar Investigation. While at the same time participating in Nassar Investigation discussions at the fbi. Abbott applied for the u. S. Olympic Committee Position in 2017 but wasnt selected. We determined that abbotts actions violated the fbis clear conflicts of Interest Policy and we also found that abbott made false statements to the oig and my agents in two interviews that we conducted. I want to conclude my testimony where i started, by recognizing the Courage And Bravery of the extraordinary gymnasts that we heard from today and that came before Law Enforcement in other settings. Their Persistence And Strength are an example to all of us who work in the area of accountability and want to promote accountability. Although the Sexual Abuses by nassar and appallingly inadequate response by the fbi agents cannot be undone, these Athletes Commitment to justice and their pursuit of accountability for all involved in this deeply tragic series of events will improve our institutions ultimately and will help ensure federal Law Enforcement responds in appropriate and timely way to reports of Sexual Abuse in the future. Our report recommends several important necessary forums, the fbi has begun taking them and we will continue to conduct our independent Oversite Work to ensure that they are effectively implemented. Thank you. Im pleased to answer any questions. And dan, lets talk a bit about what Michael Horowitz and Chris Wray said. Chris wray said in his statement that one agent has been fired and that the other had long retired and so that he regretted that no action could be taken against him. But if these if two officers lied to federal officers, two of these fbi agents lied, why cant they be prosecuted . That is a good question, a question that several of the senators an some of the gymnasts we heard from have asked. The Department Of Justice was invited to this hearing but decided not to come to answer that question. And the very charges of lying to a Police Officer are the ones that first landed some of the other arrests that are associated with the Nassar Case, the Gymnastics Coach at michigan State University and the president of michigan State University were both charged with lying to Police Officers for their role in how they responded to earlier complaints about nassar. So there is precedent for that and it is not really clear why the fbi agents havent received the same treatment. And to dominique, as someone who has been part of gymnastics and part of investigating gymnastics, what is the vulnerability of girls and teenagers around the country in these programs with so much in High Schools and Athletic Departments to profit from success in these venues. Yeah, i mean the sport of gymnastics, Usa Gymnastics has all been about medals. When my team won, they were extremely wealthy and many gyms and parents included both the apple, they fell into wanting to have their Kids Train for an olympic Gold Medal or college scholarship. And i want to plead to these parents and have them open their eyes and see that there is a great deal of toxicity in these private clubs. It is not solely Usa Gymnastics. It is also the clubs that are within and under Usa Gymnastics, those private coaches. They are still on the floor out there verbally, emotionally, physically and psychologically abusing these young girls. That is why when these hundreds of young girls went through what they went through with Larry Nassar, many remained silent because they were already experiencing abuse in other ways that the Sexual Abuse was just adding to the uncomfortability that they were already facing. And nobody is bringing up the fact that John Geddard who was charged in 20 plus cases of human trafficking, child porn, just to name a few, ended up taking his own life. That was the 2012 olympic team coach. He was the one who also opened his doors for Larry Nassar to come in. There is a lot of gym owners, a lot of private coaches out there that need not be working with our young kids because they are toxic, they are abusive and they are damaging these young people. And Anne Thompson, what do you think is really going to happen . This is horrific, but weve seen other cases in other sports, other genders of athletes being abused for profit by these athletic systems. Well, i think a couple things will happen. First of all, i think that the Justice Department is going to have to answer why it will not prosecute those fbi agents for lying to federal officials. You will remember that is why Martha Stewart went to federal prison for five months because she was convicted of lying to fbi officials. So there is a long precedent for charging that crime. As far as protecting the gymnasts, protecting the athletes, i thought Aly Raisman was particularly poignant about Safe Sport, this is supposed to offer them some kind of protection, offer them a way to make their complaints, and she has no respect for it. Part of it is because Safe Sport is supposed to investigate the organization that funds Safe Sport and that is Usa Gymnastics. So there is no trust anywhere. And clearly i think what the women want is they want accountability both criminally and they also want to know what really happened. They want an independent investigation of all three organizations. And Aly Raisman made it clear she is not going to believe anyone unless they get those independent investigators in there to find out what really happened. Anne thompson, we look forward to your Reports Tonight on nightly news. And to All Of You, your Expertise Today has been invaluable as we deal with the impact of this extraordinary testimony. And the courage of these all these women who are in terms of justice Gold Medalists indeed. John and dans book by the way, start by believing, the institutions that enabled him and the brave women to stop a monster. Well watch this closely for you throughout the hour. Would you first, how dangerous was the national Security Threat in the closing days of the Trump Presidency . No details coming up. Tech every customer has their own safelite story. This couple loves Camping Adventures and their suv is always there with them. So when their windshield got a chip, they wanted it fixed fast. They drove to Safelite Autoglass for a guaranteed, sameday, inshop repair. We repaired the chip before it could crack. And with their insurance, it was no cost to them. Woman really . 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Explosive new details about president s final days in office, that new book called peril revealing that Mark Milley was so concerned that former President Trump might start a war with china in his final months in office, he called his chinese counterpart twice to reassure him that the u. S. Was not planning to attack. The spokesperson for the joint Chiefs Staff just released a statement saying in part, the chairman of the joint chiefs regularly communicates with chiefs of defense across the world including with China And Russia. These conversations remain vital to improving mutual understanding of u. S. National security interests, reducing tenses, providing clarity and avoiding Unintended Consequences or conflict. In a statement yesterday, former President Trump said for the record i never even thought of attacking China And China knows that. Joining me now is Peter Baker from the new york times. His book on James Baker is the man who Ran Washington now out in paper back. Also with us Donna Edwards and former adviser to house speakers John Boehner and paul ryan. Lets talk about the first call to the chinese counterpart, it was on October 30th because the china thought according to intelligence was preparing to attack and he wanted to reassure him. We had deployed nimitz to the South China Seas and the rhetoric from President Trump at the u. N. General Assembly Meeting from the White House had been that we have to hold china accountable and it was, you know, a constant bashing against china because of the coronavirus and the way the president was using that. So that is the context. After january 6, milley calls General Lee again and they write this the Book Li remained unusually rattled putting the two nations on the knifeedge of disaster. So that is the context and now we have the statement from milg Milleys Spokesman saying he was so concerned about china misreading us that he did call China And Russia and a number of other maybe 20 other countries i was told. He is now under attack not just from President Trump but Marco Rubio calling for him to be fired. Youve seen the drumbeat. Youve watched decades of White Houses and Foreign Policy from moscow and other posts overseas. Your takeaway. Yeah this, was chairman of the joint chiefs, highest Military Virz to the president Try Doing what chairmans had done before which is to make sure that there are no accidents, make sure that we dont spill into could be Flikts Conflict without meaning to. So he is saying yes, things look a little crazy right here at home in the united states right now, but dont Take That to mean that were going to be in some way dangerous to you or hostile to you. This has happened before right after 9 11, one of the first calls that was made was to moscow to reassure Vladimir Putin in that era that he was going to see Military Buildups and actions on the part of americans in the days to come, but that shouldnt see that as a threat to russia. This is what we want our generals do, that we dont get into a conflict by accident. In theory this was carrying out the president s policy because the president didnt have a policy of going to war with china. And milley is also being criticized for his conversation with Nancy Pelosi on that same day January 8 after january 6. Of course the insurrection. And for saying things according to what the authors say is a transcript and ive talked to people and the authenticity of that conversation has been confirmed by all sides. So the fact that general milley said i agree with you on all this. The context im told was that he was trying to reassure the speaker of the house that the military was not going to go along with some crazy launch. The words exchanged involved her asking have you taken the football away from him. He is crazy. You know, that is what was going on. She was i know from talking to her in those days, she was so horrified by the attack on the institution of congress, but the attack on her office, what her staff had experienced hiding under the table for all that time with the banging on the door, the destruction and really we havent even reported what really happened in her office and in other areas, sacred areas of congress. Unspeakable acts by the rioters. So that was the context. But that said, was it out of place . No, i dont think so at all. I think that what Speaker Pelosi was reflecting was also looking at the president s remarks and his behavior in those days from the election and moving forward. And a real fear on her part that the president was unstable. And it turns out that at least what were able to glean from this reporting is that there were others both in the administration, general milley and others, who were reflecting that same concern about the president s instability. And not wanting that to turn into a National Security emergency. And so i think that it was entirely appropriate, the speaker of the house is, you know, in line to the succession for the presidency. And so she was well within her authority to have conversations with those in the administration who could represent the kind of stability that we needed to see at the time given the president s, you know, sort of clear almost derangement when it came to his articulation about the election and then attacks on the institutions of government. I think that it was entirely appropriate for the speaker to express that concern at the highest levels in the administration. Brandon, this book also gives us a very different take on Mike Pence, that he wasnt standing up to Donald Trump initially, that he went so far as to call Dan Quayle, the only living former Vice President who had lost an election and had to declare the vote count, the Electoral Count on january 6, in his case 1993, looking to a fellow indianan for some support for what Donald Trump was threatening. And Dan Quayle just shutting it down cold and saying no, you dont have any right, mike, you have no flexibility on this, none, zero, forget it. Give me some insight into that because it was then that he realized that he had no options. I think that we were all surprised. Remember when Mike Pence put out that letter, that statement that he was not going to vote down the certification of the election. And we were surprised because at every step along the way that you those four years, he stood by President Trump. He never crossed him. Never even privately. You know, you have a lot of republicans in town who will say one thing about Donald Trump publicly but privately say yeah, hes kind of crazy or whatever it may be. But he was never like that. He was stone faced in public and stone faced in private about Donald Trump. So it is not necessarily surprising that he considered his options to find another way to stick with him. But ultimately at the end i want to make sure that he did note that he did do the right thing and he stood firm on the side of the constitution and im grateful for that. And peter, finally, very briefly, i have reporting that there were others in the National Security cabinet, even above the level of milley who was not was not a cabinet officer, but there were others who informally understood that they would countermander and try to stop the president in those closing weeks and even months from doing anything in the National Security realm, including trump loyalists, including one in the White House that i know of. Does that surprise you . Yeah, i think youre exactly right about that. My wife and i are writing a book on the Trump Presidency, as well and our reporting shows the same thing. A great deal of concern in the upper reaches of the trump administration, including his political appointees and including people who had been loyal to him that he was erratic and that he was potentially out of control and what would they do if push came to shove. There were a lot of conversations among them at that period of time of what their options were and what their possibilities were and duties were. President Ial Appointees but they have a duty to the country, as well. There was a very, very, you know, unsettled moment in our history. I think we have sort of forgotten in the last six months how unsettled this was and this book reminds us and more reporting will come out to continue to bring that home. Peter baker and, of course, Donna And Brendan buck, thanks to All Of You. Coming up, what could be the last chance for a congressional fix for republican rollbacks and Voting Rights across the nation. Is it at stake in one last bipartisan push in the senate. The latest compromise coming from moderate Joe Manchin and proposal expanding Voter Access make Election Day a public holiday. But key Senate Republican moderates have already come out against the proposal saying it is federal overreach and Mitch Mcconnell is shutting it down. Democrats right now are short of a filibuster proof majority. Joining me now one of the senators cosponsoring the new compromise Angus King of maine. Is this the Last Gasp and what do you do with Mitch Mcconnell saying flatly, no. I think we continue to have to try to talk to some of the republican senators who might talk to reason on this. This is a moderate bill and a bill designed to basically protect americans right to vote. It is absolutely clear that congress has the authority to take this action. Section 1 article 1, section 4 the constitution expressly says that the state has the first crack at election procedures but expressly says that congress can alter or amend those procedures. So, this is a critically important piece of legislation. I am not going to give up on talking to some of my republican colleagues and try to get them to move toward working with us on this compromise bill. If not, were going to all have to have some really deep thinking about the Filibuster And Reverend warnoc said are we going to let a Minority Rule in the Senate Control Minorities Ability to participate in our democracy . The filibuster is not in the constitution and not contemplated by the framers and really has been abused in recent years and used so much more frequently by both parties than it ever was before. So, one possibility, andrea, is to return to whats called a talking filibuster. That you actually have to go to the floor. What people dont understand is you see mr. Smith goes to washington talking all night on the floor. That doesnt happen. You can sort of Dial It in and say im going to filibuster and therefore you need 60 votes. So, i think there are some opportunities to modify the rule without abolishing it and if thats the direction we have to go in then i think the republicans have to understand that by just saying no and on the first day that this bill is introduced, theyre forcing those of us that feel that Voting Rights is really fundamental to our democracy to be thinking about modifying the rule. Ive always been one that has been very reluctant about that. But when it comes to democracy itself, weve got to have all the options on the table. Yeah, i remember the 1964 senate debate. I was a kid following it and that was the oldfashioned talking filibuster. And it was an attempt to stop the civil Rights Act and it failed. But before it failed, america got an education and thats exactly what perhaps needs to happen in this case. I think youre absolutely right, andrea. Given the requiring people to go and talk and let the american people understand what the arguments are ultimately in 64 and 65, those filibusters were overcome i think largely because of public opinion. Let me ask you before i know we all have to go is about the afghanistan evacuations. Tony blinken was pressed hard by congress in two houses on the chaotic exit, at least 100 americans and 100 more u. S. Allies not getting out, thousands including their families. Are you satisfied with the explanations on why they couldnt start the process a lot sooner . Well, i think theres still a lot to learn, andrea. Three hearings in congress yesterday. I was at two of them. Three hearings in the senate. I was at two of them. One in the Intelligence Committee with Intelligence Community on the afghanistan withdrawal and one in the armed services committee. Still a lot to learn and, for example, the case you cite leaving 100 or 200, we dont really know the exact number. But, remember, 124,000 people were evacuated. So, you cant forget that. But the decision the president was faced with the taliban had said August 31st is a Red Line and there will be consequences. That raises the possibility of attacks on american troops, which the taliban had not been doing for a year and a half. There was also the risk of further terrorist attacks. Thats the decision the president made was, okay, we have several hundred people but the taliban has said they will let them out and, in fact, a number of them have gotten out since August 31st when our troops left versus the risk of the troops of renewed hostility. So if he had stayed and we had lost 100 or 200 or heaven forbid even more americans in that process, i think many of the same people that are being so critical today would say how did he do this . Why did we lose so many . Well, theres a lot of Monday Morning quarterbacking going on here. I prefer to wait until we get to the facts and thats the process were in right now. Senator, im very grateful to you. Thanks so much for sticking with us today. Thank you. I should just point out at the White House just now Jen Psaki said the president has full confidence in general milley. Msnbc continues to follow the hearing on the fbis Mishandling Of the Sexual Abuse of Larry Nassar. Chuck todd is up next with mtp daily. Stay with us on msnbc. Tly readyo start working. So you can bounce back fast with alkaseltzer plus. This is how you become the best youre the best by Joe Esposito [triumphantly yells] [ding] dont get mad. Get e trade. I became a Sofi Member because i needed to consolidate my credit card debt. I needed just one simple way to pay it all off. It was an easy decision to apply with sofi loans, just based on the Interest Rate and how much i would be saving. 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