And today its kind of hard to see one it is that our Levee Systems really did perform extremely well. And is it time for doctors groups to start sanctioning the doctors giving out live stock drugs to covid patients . When All In starts right now. Good evening from New York. Im chris hayes. As America And Americans today assess the aftermath of The End of the 20year war many people have noted that the violence in afghanistan itself is not over, far from it. I mean, there are millions of afghans and these are of course people like you and me, family members, jobs, hopes, dreams who have known only war their entire lives. You know, in the history of Human Life on this planet most political conflict has been resolved violently, conquering empires and bloody Civil Wars and ethnic cleansing. Its a great miracle of a functioning Level Democracy like the one we find ourselves in, that we find a way to resolve the inherent conflict between different factions and beliefs and religious and ethnic groups without resorting to violence. Thats the idea anyway. The idea is we resolve those differences through democratic Struggle And Protest and free speech and politics and all those other features we have liberal democratic nations like our own. But all that is being threatened right now before our eyes in a way i do not think many people quite have grasped. Last night we showed you some examples of straight up menacing threats of violence against School Board members and their requirements for students to wear masks during a pandemic. Forget going into these School Boards and bringing data, you go into School Boards to remove them. Thats what you do. They dont follow the law. They dont follow the law. You go in and remove them. Im going in with 20 strong men and im going to give them an option. They can leave or they can be removed. Whoever votes yes were coming to your door. Were coming to your home. You want to intimidate us, we coming to you now. Civil war is coming, people. Get your guns. Civil war is coming, people. His ability at Building Crescendo for a second Civil War from the right. We saw that on January 6th. Thats a day that gave us the first really violent reaction to interrupt a peaceful transfer of power. Thousands began that day listening to Trump Repeat lies about a stolen election and never to give up, never to concede. Trump supporters broke down windows and doors. And the idea of starting a Civil War was a recurring theme. For example here a group of January 6th rioters. Theyre in the process of becoming martyrs in the eyes of the supporters of the faction. Which brings us to a republican from north carolina. This past sunday he came out and lied about the election being rigged, warned of Violence And Bloodshed if these up nonexistent rigged elections continue. Ill tell you anybody who tells me Joe Biden was duly elected our Election Systems continue to be rigged and stolen, and its going to lead to one place and its bloodshed. And i will tell you as much as i am willing to defend our liberty at all costs, Theres Nothing that i would dread doing more than having to pick up arms against a fellow american. There is Nothing Id Dread doing more than having to pick up arms against a fellow american. Dread doing more. That conconstruction plainly you dread a thing you might have to do. You dread taking a test tomorrow. You dread having to deliver bad news. Its a thing you dont want to do but have to do. Thats the construction the congressman used there about taking up arms against fellow americans. And what he seems to be doing is encouraging more violent insurrection along the lines of January 6th. When second degree to clarify his remarks a spokesperson for the congress said he was in no way supporting or advocating for any kind of violence and that he was clearly advocating for violence not to occur over Election Integrity questions. But, again, thats what he said. What he said was if things get bad enough then people might have to take up arms. I would do it, i will do it but i dread to. Its the last thing i want to do. I want to avoid that by dealing with Election Security. Lets be clear the dealing with Election Security he and others are talking about is making sure democrats dont win elections, because there was no breach in security in last Novembers President ial election. Its one thing when some redfaced vein popping Rage Addict screams at someone or at a camera like that Dude We Saw at the meeting there or a local School Board or public hearing. Its bad enough its a little embarrassing for mem. Its one thing when a member of congress flirts of political violence towards the american right towards people the american right perceives to be its enemies, a member of congress. Thats how the Big Lie the election was stolen works and in this case leads to whats sounding like a call for violence. Nearly ten months after the election this is still going on. Theyre not stopping. The delegitimization of Joe Biden, in the specter of solutions whats laying out before us its happening with increased rhetoric of violence both in and outside our government. He must go. Hes a Clear And Present Danger to the nation that we all love. Im going to washington to stop the pelosi agenda, and theyre not going to silence me. They dont care about protecting your freedom of speech, your right to bear arms or even Election Security. Time to bring out the big guns, and the big guns are the men and women in this country who feel as if their voices arent being heard. Ill be your voice. Again, both those people running for elected office. Imagine you saw this in another country . What would you think . Look, a certain portion of americans love their guns. American politicians have been posing with guns mostly in ads for hunting, you know, for years. But this feels different. It just does. It feels like intimidation. The presence of the gun in a political ad like that, the big guns, im going to shootup Nancy Pelosis Socialism alters a perception what is being said in any context. And this is why what Congressman Madison Cawthorn said and done should be disqualified. Raising the specter of violence, taking up arms against americans, a thing he dreads doing if future president ial elections do not go his way. Hes not the only one. These sorts of intimations of violence, threats of violence have become increasingly common among a certain faction of the republican party. Congresswoman marjorie Taylor Greene of georgia suggesting people encouraging others to get vaccinated should be shot. Congressman Mat Gaetz of florida telling the Second Amendment is for Armed Rebellion against the government. It sounds hyperbolic to say it but this is part of how peaceful Liberal Democracy is undone. When some Group Or Party or institutions or groups of people within a society withdraw from the political sphere of Argument And Debate and they move forward to fantasies of violence and violent insurrection. Congressman Adam Schiff was the Lead Impeachment Manager in trumps first impeachment. Hes the chair of the House Intelligence Committee as well, and he joins me now. What do you think about what your colleague Madison Cawthorn said . Its so irresponsible its hard to imagine. What hes saying is if elections continue to be rigged he may find it necessary to take up arms. Of course the Election Wasnt rigged, so what hes really saying is if he continues to propagate the lies about our election it may lead him to bear arms to confront his own lies. And this is the danger that led us into January 6th, the propagation of falsehoods about our election, the glorifying of political violence, urging other people potentially to violence, and it couldnt be more reprehensible. But its also reflective of this new generation of republican member of congress that came to congress basically each of them trying to scream louder than the other and trying to get their 15 minutes of fame for being more outlandish than the other all devoted to tearing down these institutions of government and never making the transition to govern in any way, and its an incredibly dangerous trend for the country. You mention January 6th. Of course youre on the select committee. Yesterday we got news the select committee i mean preparing or already sent out requests to Telecom Companies that includes information for some members of congress. First im going to ask you im going to read the Statement Minority Leader Kevin Mccarthy issued. But first i want to ask you, do you have any wariness about this line . Was there discussion in the committee about what precedent this might set to be getting Phone Records from fellow members of congress . You know, certainly weve discussed the range of requests were making without getting into any of the particulars of of our conversation, we looked at the historic precedent, and there is precedent for seeking records related to members of congress most often in the context of ethics investigations. I think participating in an insurrection, an armed insurrection against the government is among the most serious ethics violations you could imagine if not more than that. But, yes, we did consider it, and i think at The End of the day well determine whoever was involved in this effort to prevent the peaceful transfer of power should not be able to hide behind their office. We want to develop all the facts. If people were not involved in trying to overturn the government they should be concerned. His boss, his master of maralago doesnt want it to happen. Ill read you now the statement because it mentions you. It dez sadm schiff, Bennie Thompson and Nancy Pelosis attempts to strong arm private companies to turn over individuals private data would put every american with a Phone Or Computer in the cross hairs of surveillance run by democrat positions. A republican majority will not forget and will stand with americans to hold them fully accountable under the law. This is not a threat of violence, but it is certainly a threat hes making in response to this. Well, its a threat and its a threat premised on a falsehood, that somehow asking these companies to preserve records or ultimately to turn over records of people involved in an insurrection is somehow against the law. Thats just flat wrong. But mccarthy, look, hes scared. And i think his boss is scared. They didnt want this commission and this select committee to go forward. They certainly didnt want it to go forward as it is on a bipartisan basis, and they dont want the country to know exactly what they were involved in. And you can see why. I mean these two stories are not unrelated to each other. His caucus, his conference members are people like cawthorn who are still pushing the Big Lie that resulted in the insurrection to begin with. Theyre still pushing the Big Lie that may result in further violence in the future. The last Thing Mccarthy wants to do is take on these rabblerousers because frankly they represent donald trump. And Kevin Mccarthy lives to do whatever trump wants. It shows why this man can never be allowed to go anywhere near the speakers office. This is a question im going to ask you. You know nothing about but im going to ask you because the news came over a congressman of oklahoma has been making multiple attempts to get into afghanistan, reportedly was going to enter with a bunch of cash. Asked the embassy, they told him thats a terrible idea, you cant do that and as of now his whereabouts are unknown, and as the chair of the House Intelligence Committee do you know anything about this or have a read on where he is . I dont. Hes a member of our committee but i dont know what his circumstances are. Look, a lot of our members are still very i think desperate to try to help people particularly in Iraq Or Afghanistan or other interpreters at risk. While i can understand that and i feel very much the same way, we dont want to put peoples lives at risk, we dont want to put our Service Members at risk by our members putting themselves in a position they may get harmed. Our members went to afghanistan while we were trying to evacuate others, it added to the burdens of those conducting the evacuation and added to the dangers of others. I really think we need to work through the administration to try to continue to evacuate any people that worked with us who were threatened. But i dont think thats the right way to do it am. Congressman Adam Schiff, thanks so much for making time tonight. Thank you. Up next, with the u. S. Finally out of afghanistan for the first time in nearly 20 years the president declares the era of Nation Building over. We succeeded in what we setout to do in afghanistan over a decade ago and we stayed for another decade. It was time to end this war. En. 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Comcast business powering possibilities. Today president Joe Biden addressed the nation marking yesterdays historic event The End of americas longest war. My fellow americans, the War In Afghanistan is now over. It was time to be honest with the american people again. We no longer had a clear purpose and an open ended mission in afghanistan. After 20 years of War In Afghanistan i refuse to send another generation of Americas Son and daughters to fight a war that should have ended long ago. The president forcefully defended his decision to fully withdraw the United States Military after two decades of occupation in afghanistan. Those final moments look like this. This is an image of a last american soldier to leave the country. His name is major general chris donohue, Commanding General of the 82nd Airborne and this is before he boarded to take off from kabul. Today this photo of the last remaining diplomats from kabul. The acting u. S. Ambassador to Afghanistan Wilson is the man holding the folded american flag. A new era begins both for the united states and afghanistan under taliban rule. And for tens of thousands of afghan refugees now spread all over the world, 98 countries including the united states have agreed to take in groups of displaced afghans. Refugees evacuated to an american Air Base in germany spoke about what they left behind but also what theyre looking forward to. 20,000 evacuees have already come through here brought on Giant Transport planes. The mood here is one of happiness and relief. Among the Crowds Leana and her father. At the start of the month she was a News Presenter on afghan television. Now shes a refugee. Its dangerous to live in afghanistan in that situation with the taliban. Reporter hamidhad founded the taliban network. It was staffed only by women. And the new life with new chapter we have Hope And Vision to come back stronger. Afghans at the Air Base in germany are all on the way to the united states where they hope to rebuild their lives in safety. Kimberley motley in mexico working to escort Afghan Evacueess to the u. S. , author of lawness. Joined the army after september 11th, served in afghanistan as a military officer, rised as a rank in captain and as the Missouri Secretary of state. Hes now the president of the veterans community project, and they both join me now. First let me get an on the Ground View and i know youve been very active in getting refugees out. People associated in the New York times ended up in mexico thank tuesday the intervention of their Foreign Minister there. What is the situation on the ground there like in terms of those people getting to safety and now being resettled . Well, thanks for having me, chris. The mexican government has been extremely friendly and generous with their opening the doors to afghan evacuees, and so, you know, theyre transitioning them. Trying to figure out what type of housing to give them and programs and things like that, which is very encouraging. Theyve bip going so far as to actually go physically to the airport and to welcome, you know, personally those coming to the airport. A lot of people have left traumatic situations in afghanistan literally running for their lives with the shirts off their backs leaving their belongings and a lot of their Loved Ones behind, and so its a very encouraging place where people are being sent so im being sent here to support them and sort of figure out the next steps for with this new chapter thats the beginning of their lives. Jason, theres been a lot of Darkness And Grief and Fear And Catastrophe in the last few weeks. And one of the bright spots i think as you noted is this sort of Sprawling Effort that happened across all sort of areas of civil society, people that i know, veterans, people that used to work in the foreign service, working with ngos and media companies, all this sort of Volunteer Effort to get people out and you talked about wanting that story to be written. Tell me what that has been like. Its been this incredible inspiring little piece of a really, really awful couple of weeks. I actually commented to one of the people who i met in the last few days and now were very close in these hodgepodge ragtag groups of people coming together to do this. I actually said this week feels like Argot Meet stripes. Its just people who in some cases its civilians who really didnt have a connection to this from the beginning who just dropped everything like myself, a former intelligence officer, its people that, you know, i worked with in intelligence whether they were in the military or not and then also folks like one of the people ive been working with havent been deployed, and its just any little piece of intelligence or reliable rumor we can get about a way to get somebody out, were sort of All In it together to figure it out in and some cases it didnt work yet and keeps you going. Kimberley, theres been some really disgusting bigoted demagoguery directed at these folks, these people fleeing the taliban theyre unvet, theyre a menace, represent some fifth column. As a lawyer, im curious how youd respond to people saying that. Well, you know, i think definitely that people on the ground are doing the best they can to make sure that those are going to different countries are vetted properly. Frankly, this Isnt Something Anyone could have planned for. This is a humanitarian nuclear bomb that frankly exploded on afghanistan in a very fast pace to the point afghanistan wasnt prepared or other countries prepared. So i think thats a little selfish frankly for people to be saying those things. I agree with what your other guests, jason, are saying there are way more acts of Kindness Theyve seen in the last couple of weeks. Im sure jason are in various whats up Chat Rooms and trying to help as many people as we can, and i think thats what we need to do as a world. We really need to support and make sure that those in afghanistan that are staying and frankly those that are also outside afghanistan as we continue that support, and from a legal perspective of course we believe that people should be vetted, and people are trying to do that as best as they can, and thats why there is usually a country that afghans are sent to before theyre going onto, you know, their new home place. So those things are happening and i think people who are saying that may be very, very misinformed as to a lot of the Ground Work to make sure people are moving safely and that all the various countries people are being sent are also protected moving forward. Just on that note, yeah go ahead, please. Anybody who is saying something like are these people vet, what people are involved in like myself, what we hear is can we trust them because the very the initial vetting before the vetting begins is you dont get somebody like me leaving their ringer on all night and get the long Distance Plan so i can call afghanistan several times a day for someone i think could be isis. And frankly i find it insulting anybody is suggesting otherwise. Right. Kimberly motley and Jason Candor both of whom have been working very hard to bring people to safety, thanks for your efforts. Coming up how the devastating impact of Hurricane Ida proves the value of investing in infrastructure. Thats next. 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The 192 miles of levees and Flood Walls did what they were supposed to do. If theres a silver lining, and today its kind of hard to see one, it is that our Levee Systems really did perform extremely well. Our federal, nonfederal Levee Systems particularly the Hurricane And Storm Risk Reduction System in the metropolitan new Orleans Area all performed as intended. Thats not an accident. The levees breaking were the most critical failures of Hurricane Katrina in 2005. And that was really that was the worst thing that happened. Dozens of Flood Walls collapsed and as a result 80 of new Orleans Flood as much as 15 feet. Everything that happened was a result of that. And that in turn led to widespread Power Outages and all the human suffering we saw on television. And in large part why the aftermath of the storm was so devastating. After that federal, state and local government decided to do something about it. Every level of government and ngos and citizens of New Orleans understood a failure like that could never be allowed to happen again. The federal government spent more than 15 Billion to proactively fortify and expand the levee system. They stabilized barriers, reinforced walls with steel. They overhauled Pumping Stations to reduce flooding. They built a 1 Billion Surge Wall at a key Inflection Point that extends more than 2 miles long and more than 26 feet high. To avoid the scenario that unfolded 16 years to the day when Storm Surges overtook the barrier, and it worked. The system is not perfect. There are many who think the erosion of the swampland is something that has to be demt with as well. Civil engineers argue theres more to be done to fortify the city, but we manage to avoid the kind of massive failure that happened during katrina, which again thats really good, important stuff. Goes to show how important investments and infrastructure can be and why more investments are needed to avoid situations like we saw over the weekend when an electrical Tower Crumppled in the storm. By one estimate Climate Disaster has already cost us more than 1. 8 trillion say nothing of the cost of suffering and death, we know it only guests worst, which is why its crucial we do what New Orleans did and invest ahead of time. Representing louisianas second congressional district which contains New Orleans and the department of civil and environmental engineering, he worked with the u. S. Army corp of engineers to reinforce the levees. Congressman, let me start with you to get a sense where things stand particularly on the power situation. Congressman, i dont know can you hear me . We find ourselves in a situation where much of our city, much of our district, much of the state is without power. People without electricity, without cellular service, cellular service is fwegt better now and obviously thats critically important to be able to communicate so people will know where they are that need help, and theyll be able to contact us or access the resources that are available. Were hopeful that well get some 16,000 linemen on the ground who will be able to restore service as soon as possible. Eric, let me ask you about your involvement on the Levee Side of things. I mean it really was one of the most catastrophic Infrastructure Failures in memory. Huge studies done afterwards, multiple reports and then a concerted effort to address it. What do those efforts look like, and how do you feel about how it appears to have performed in what some say is the fifth most powerful storm ever to make landfall . Well, its very gratifying to wake up Sunday Morning and find out that people reporting from New Orleans were standing on dry ground. I think what happened in New Orleans after katrina is a great example of what has to happen in a lot of other places around the country. Congress gave provided the resources that allowed a very conscientious comprehensive analysis of what went wrong and why. And the ability to create a design of a new system based on risk that was much more conservative and much more robust and based on new information not Legacy Information or 60s or 70s Type Information that the old system was based on. So it was teamwork. It was resources, and it was a great will to get this thing done by everybody involved from within New Orleans and externally. Its exactly what needs to happen in a lot of other places. Well, the grid i mean the grid is cell service, congressman carter, to your point about the two major pieces of infrastructure that are down for your constituents, you have a sense from the Utility Company there what happened, what the Time Line is like . And does it inform how youre thinking about these big votes on infrastructure happening in d. C. Later this summer . Certainly. When we think about infrastructure, and ive said this so long if Theres Something that was bipartisan that was not tied to a party, infrastructure is just that. We know that if we were to build back better and by building back better i say instead of having these Transmission Lines exposed where every time we have a hurricane we have to redo this, better thinking and a better use of taxpayers dollars would be to bury those Power Lines underground and make sure that we dont have this kind of issue in future years when hurricanes come. We know that the investment made 60 years ago after katrina paid huge dividends with this hurricane. While as horrible and as difficult and as painful as this hurricane was, it could have been a lot worse. Going forward we should use our infrastructure dollars to put our Power Lines underground and build back better so we can be able to be much more resilient going forward. Professor hill, you made an important point here basically talking about the risk data. And people calculate whats called A Thousand year flood, right, which is what the actual projection you get one of these floods every 1,000 years, right . If you use 60s and 70s data you get Risk Assessments because the climate is changing. That seems to be the crucial part here, all forms of Civil Engineering and environmental engineering now have to take as Data Set they calculate risk off of, a much more current set of data and project out forward to be able to meet the kind of Tail Risk possibilities that threaten us. Well, this this effort in New Orleans after katrina was actually the first large geographically distributed Infrastructure System that was rebuilt, redesigned based on risk information. That was brand new. Risk has been used in a lot of other industries. The Petrol Chemical Industry and so on, but not been used in Water Infrastructure to a large degree. It is now the primary focus of agencies like the Army Corp of engineers. They have restructured all their guidance and methods to be based on modern Risk Assessments to support decision making. Congressman Troy Carter and thank you both, congressmen. Were thinking about your constituents and hope people get power back soon. Still ahead as doctors push Horse Worm Medicine to treat covid why isnt the medical profession policing its own and stopping those doctors . Thats coming up. Its own and stopping those doctors thats coming up what makes Febreze Air effects different . While cheaper aerosols rely on artificial propellants. Febreze uses a 100 natural propellant. Check it out pressure created by whats in your air makes the bottle spray. Which means Freshness Everyone will love. 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Open each others minds. Raise each others ambitions. And do together, what we cant do apart. This is Space for dreams. Loopnet. The most popular place to find a Space. 17 of the nearly 600 people arrested in connection with the January 6th insurrection have this guy as their voice. Hes an antivaccine conservative lawyer. Now it seems those 17 people we represents are without representation and that is because hes reportedly sick with covid and on a ventilator according to federal prosecutors. There is of course a flourishing right Wing Information Ecosystem turned against the vaccine, and it is producing tragedy for many within that ecosystem, for them, for their Loved Ones, families. This week a conservative Talk Show Host naked mark bernier, a guy who spoke out against the vaccine died of covid at the age of 65. Hes the third public radio Show Host to die of the virus. He was only 30 years old. He leaves behind a pregnant wife and three children. You know, i want to be clear here about these stories and they come in every week, multiple weeks. Getting covid is not some kind of comeuppance or some revelation of personal moral failing. These are excruciating Human Tragedies every single one of them. And especially because the outbreak right now in this nation is being driven by the unvaccinated. And the safe, effective, available free vaccine can prevent so much of the suffering we are seeing. The alternative Information Ecosystem that caused this suffering in large part has grown over the decades. Its the same one thats been saying Climate Change is not real. Theyre faking the temperatures and yada. Honestly my friends it never occurred to me wed have a challenge getting people to take the vaccine, but thats where we are. Were all i think perplexed as to how we cap this problem. Aw, shucks, how had that happen . For the record this occurred to basically everyone paying attention, everyone. You didnt have to see a genius to see it coming. To his Credit Mitch Mcconnell believes in vaccines and hes cut a second psa encourages people to get vaccinated. The problem is republicans are not listening to mitch mcconnell. He might be the senate minority leader, but come on. Theres this ravenous demand for misinformation. Increasingly there are doctors, medical professionals to show up in their white coats on youtube and Senate Hearings and tell people what they want to hear. Theres some Miracle Horse Deworming agent that can protect them from covid. While we all debate how disinformation should be regulated and what Tech Companies should do one question ive not heard a good answer to is this. Shouldnt the medical profession be policing its own . What are the consequences for doctors pushing Snake Oil solutions . Were going to get into that after the break. Tions . Were going to get into that after the break. Oh, i gotta tell everyone. 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Back in december, Republican Senator Ron Johnson of wisconsin held a hearing on the Homeland Security Committee about alternative treatments for coronavirus. He was then chairman, so he could do that kind of thing. It was an Addendum Hearing to another which took place weeks earlier, but at Johnsons Hearing a very specific drug took center stage. Hydroxychloroquine and other safe, long used agents such as ivermectin is showing particular promise, but there are others. They could be immediately available if the government stopped blocking access and deterring their use. It seems like a nobrainer that you should try it, and heres the thing about ivermectin. Going back to ivermectin because you know that is my message today, that it is the cure for this. You support ivermectin, right . Of course. Youre not confused about that, right senator . Ivermectin is a drug often given to livestock to treat parasites. Its typically for horses and sheep although it is used for people. Its not, as far as we can tell so far, a coronavirus miracle drug. But that last person you heard from in Senator Ron Johnsons Hearing is a Founding Member of a group calling itself Frontline Coronavirus Critical Care which pushes ivermectin heavily. The group is comprised ever ten doctors with a page saying if your doctor will not provide ivermectin for you, contact one of the groups below. The Misinformation Machine has been in overdrive, Conservative Media and antivaccine figures have latched onto ivermectin. Of course the stuff is flying off the shelves at Farm Supply stores. Youve probably seen these stories. In response to all this, the american medical association, the professional association for physicians, released a statement last week on why ivermectin should not be used to prevent or treat coronavirus, which prompts the question why arent these professional medical groups doing more to police members in their group pushing this misinformation . Dr. Mary Ann Gau Xi Hill is an e. R. Doctor. A statement was issued last week reminding members that making public statements that are directly contemporary to prevailing medical evidence can constitute unprofessional conduct and if is a doctor is found doing so, abem may withdraw or deny certification. Dr. Hill joins me now. Doctor, thank you for coming on the program. Your statement caught my eye because i was doing a little research on this question, and this seemed the strongest one that any medical group has put out. Can you tell me a little bit about what prompted it . Yeah. I think the biggest thing is that we had received any of a number of concerns by some of our certified Emergency Physicians as well as the public in terms of the misinformation and potential harm on Public Safety. So with that, we felt given that we had already published a code of professionalism in april 2021, we felt that a statement relative to spreading misinformation that rises to the level of egregiousness that may impact Public Safety is worth putting out a statement that Thats Something that we will be reviewing. Yeah. You know, to take a Step Back for a second, lawyers and doctors, these are guilds. Theyre interesting sort of public private partnerships. Government kind of grants a monopoly. You cant just become a doctor, right, the same way you can say, like, open a lemonade stand. Youve got to go through this sort of process of professional certification. And the idea is that in turn, theres some policing internal to the profession. You know, how do you think about that . How how often are those consequences applied in your profession to doctors that are doing things they should not be, that are medically unethical . Well, doctors to police themselves. Obviously the medical boards do. And i think the certifying bodies and were a certifying body for Emergency Physicians. And really the key thing is i think we have a duty to selfgovern in a way thats really accountable, and accountable not only to our diplo mates to ensure the value of certification, but also to the public who trusts us. And we want to ensure that the public is confident that when they are treated by a boardcertified Emergency Physician that theyre getting the best care possible. And also when boardcertified Emergency Physicians make statements, that they do so that really ensures the safety of the public. Yeah. I mean its striking to me, and im curious to hear your thoughts on this. But if you spend time in the world of this sort of alternate Information Ecosystem, whether its pushing things like ivermectin, before that hydroxychloroquine, or that the, you know, the vaccine is not safe and effective, you find a lot of doctors. I mean its a small handful of them in absolute numbers, but they do you know, and they are there in their lab coats. The sort of use of medical authority to promote this has been really a key part of the vector of this disinformation. You know, i think many doctors mean well, and this has been a dynamic situation in which information was coming in very quickly. And there were drugs, antivirals that had promise, but really have not been borne out. We just have to understand that thats the case. Yeah. I mean youre pointing here to some of the nuance, which is obviously information changes. Medicine is complicated, and you certainly wouldnt want a kind of like Stalin Effect Body that stopped people from debating effective treatment regimens. But at a certain point, it seems to me to cross a line when youre basically becoming a kind of warehouse to prescribe this drug for folks that, you know, theres not a lot of medical evidence to support and could be having a real deleterious effect insofar as it tells people they dont need to get the vaccine. I think the bottom line is we do not want to stop debate or discourse. We dont want people to be afraid to speak their mind. But, again, if there is concern that impacts people who could receive treatment that is otherwise helpful, then we certainly have a concern. And so i think that the bottom line is what we are going to do is, as an organization, a certifying body, we want to uphold the highest standards that we can of emergency medicine. Yeah. And we do this thoughtfully, Okay . This is not something there is due process. There would be important review, and it is important to understand that everyone on the board is a practicing Emergency Physician. Were in it on the front lines like all of our colleagues. Yes. And we want to ensure, you know, that their certification has value and the public continues to trust us. Yeah. One of the things ive heard from Critical Care docs and e. R. Docs is you have people coming in sicker because theyre selfmedicating. Selfmedicating with a cocktail and dying at the age of 30, Thats Something that ive heard anecdotally from a lot of doctors and its upsetting to hear that. Doctor, thank you so much. Thank you for having me. That is All In for tonight. The Rachel Maddow Show starts right now. Good evening, rachel. Good evening, chris. Thanks my friend. Much appreciated. Thanks to you at home for joining us this hour on what has been a historic day. Also just an intense day in the news. Right now tens of thousands of americans in mississippi, more than 1 Million americans in louisiana are without power for a second day in the midst of stifling heat and fairly widespread destruction from the category 4 hurricane that