And give everything ive got to my company, and my community. I got you. For the love of people. For the love of community. For the love of progress. Citi. We begin this hour with our Breaking News out of afghanistan. Americas 20year presence in the country is ending. As our dreams of democracy in afghanistan. Taliban fighters entered the capital today. This video from Al Jazeera shows Taliban Fighters in the president ial palace. Richard engel reports the taliban is effectively in control of the city. Nbc news has confirmed that afghan president Ashraf Ghani has left the country. He issued a statement he had a difficult decision to make and chose to avoid bloodshed. Now, afghan civilians are trying to get out however they can. This video posted on Social Media appears to show a crush of people at the international airport in kabul. All day, people have been being shuttled to the airport. The embassy told people not to come to Kabul Airport and instead shelter in place. Meanwhile, President Biden and Vice President harris met where their national Security Team and tonight, the u. S. Military is rushing 1,000 more troops to kabul. Lets begin this hour with the latest from iran where many afghans are now fleeing. Nbc News Tehran Bureau chief is there for us. Ali, the United States has been working to rescue partners, interpreters and their families from afghanistan. What more do we know about attempts to help rescue these people at the taliban takes over . Well, theyve been attempting to help these people for some weeks now. A couple of weeks ago, they told personnel that have been helping the u. S. Military to make their way to kabul and from there, they could be evacuated out of the country. But thats a lot easier said than done. A lot of these people are in far flung parts of the country. Very far from kabul. They dont have the money to reach there. They dont have the money to take a plane to get there. Nobodys provided them with those funds and they simply couldnt travel on the roads because if they were caught by the taliban with their family holding documentation, showing they were trying to flee the country, at best they would have been detained and at worst possibly killed. So as one of our colleagues at nbc wrote, they have to run a gauntlet to get to kabul and most of them simply couldnt do it. So now theyre trying to figure out their options. Some of them will just have to hide in the country. Others are at the airport right now trying to get out. But commercial flights have been canceled temporarily after shots were fired at the airport. Not between the taliban and u. S. Forces. And so much of the regular population that wants to get out of the country are trying to get through borders that will take them and one of those borders is this extremely long, porous border are iran. Theyve been flooding through the borders. So many people have come through that the iranian government has set up three temporary makeshift Refugee Camps in three cities along the border with afghanistan. And the afghans that are here, that have been working here for several years, are reaching out to anybody they know, desperately asking for help to get whatever family they have in Afghanistan Out of there. Theyre willing to leave behind their homes, their belongings. Anything that theyve worked so hard for just to get out of that country and find some Safe Haven in a country like iran thats not particularly hospitable to them. The work they do here are menial jobs. Theyre dangerous jobs. They cant get paid well. The Children Cant get educated, but its better than the option thats in afghanistan for them. Especially for women. I mean, womens rights are not like the west here, but theyre certainly better than the ones that are existing in afghanistan. It really is a very, very sad situation. I know over the last 20 years, it certainly hasnt been ideal in afghanistan, but there have been a lot of reforms in that country that are just simply going to get rolled back now. Right now, 60 of the University Population in afghanistan are women. I doubt thats going to stay like that once the taliban are fully in control in the coming days. So a desperate situation for the afghan people. The ones that work for the americans. The ones that are stuck in corners of the Country And Cant get to kabul to get out and the other ones desperately involved in this stampede across the border and through iran. When youre fleeing to iran for the womens empowerment, its a measure of the desperation of the situation. Has there been any reaction from the afghans youve spoken to about President Ghani fleeing the country . Where does this leave the people of afghanistan who dont have the option to Helicopter Or Jet out . Well, its really the final nail in the coffin for them. Most of the afghans i spoke to were not particularly fond of Ashraf Ghani. They didnt think he was a very competent man. They didnt think he made all the right moves, but he was a better option for them than the taliban. Now that hes gone, he was the head of the government. So who are the military answerable to any more . So once a Head Of State goes, all the Security Forces fall apart and the people that relied on those Security Forces feel utterly hopeless as they do in afghanistan. So a lot of them have had to change their colors and even if they dont support the taliban, have to look like theyre supporting the taliban just to survive because they cant get out of afghanistan. Thank you so much for your reporting. Todays developments highlight the actions from four different american president s who oversaw the War In Afghanistan. Starting with president george w. Bush. Joining us now is host of deadline White House, nicolle wallace. Shes a veteran of that bush White House. Nicolle, good to see you. What was the discussion . Take us back to those days in 2001 . The room where it happens, as they say. What was the discussion in the room about the possibility of success in this country . Because for many americans watching this tonight, it has the feeling of a greek tragedy. An inevitable outcome that finally happened. Was there a feeling that this outcome could have been avoided . That this was a winnable war . Yeah, i think 20 years ago and more recently, 16 years ago and 12 years ago, president s Bush And Obama had such a different view on what was possible. It was president obama who was for the afghan surge. One of the more interesting aspects of working for John Mccain when his rival in the Democratic Party was for an afghan surge and John Mccain was viewed as the hawk there. Then President Trumps promise was to get out of afghanistan and in a lot of ways, the republican party, the whole country was. And im going to answer your question in a second, but i want to bring it back to what were watching today because you Cant Watch and not be heartbroken, but you Cant Watch and not think of what four president s have put, not the whole country, but really the military and the afghan people through. So i think to look back through all four of those presidencies and the different decisions and deliberations and how few debates we really had as an american people, as a country, how little we thought of these people who now, as youve been reporting all Evening Running for their lives, is really part of the tragedy unfolding. The Cliffs Notes Version would be youre not going to come in here and change anything. Theres plenty of Object Lessons throughout history as some of our prior guests were talking about. What did folks believe in that moment about why that history may not be true anymore . You know, its interesting. I mean, you and i first met on the set of Morning Joe debating some of these issues almost 20 years ago and i think if you remember the narratives around the Bush Presidency were of the two wars, the expresident , george w. Bush, brought the country to, this was a less awful one. This was a more just war after 9 11 and after the Talibans Role and giving Safe Haven to osama bin laden. But in so many ways, as early as the war in iraq seemed to not be going the way the american people felt they could support it in a longterm way, the War In Afghanistan took the same trajectory for a lot of the long, hard wired historical reasons youre citing. In The End, do you think it was a just war . The War In Afghanistan . I think a lot of Bush People think theyre opinions are still ought after. I am not among them. My day was spent covering this current administration and whats so interesting to me about this White House is theyre unapologetically committed to the decision to leave and there will be some painful days for the world. Mostly for the afghan people. Women and children. People who were shoulder to shoulder with the men and women of the american military for two decades. Our thoughts and hearts should be on them. But this White House is unapologetic about ending this war, not spending more money and not fighting for a country that in their view, doesnt seem to be fighting for itself. Politico has new reaction from republicans. Writing quote, Kevin Mccarthy exploded in anger over President Bidens u. S. Withdrawal from afghanistan during a private briefing on sunday calling it end quote, embarrassment that will reverberate for decades. What line of attack do you expect from republicans . Keeping in mind this this withdrawal is a move first set into motion by former President Trump . Well, look, i think whats an embarrassment the world over is Kevin Mccarthy who gives Safe Haven to marjorie Taylor Greene and liz chaney. She took a different Line Today and i think it might be the one the biden White House might pay attention to. She blamed the pompeo Trump Deal with the taliban. If you look at mccarthys reaction, im not sure Thats Anything thats going to get traction outside of anything but a political pingpong match. I think what this White House has to contend with are the kinds of calls that are being reported in The New York Times this hour. A contentious but more substantive call between the secretary of defense, the secretary of state, the chairman of the joint chiefs and a larger and a little more politically diverse group of democrats and republicans. I think a lot of the focus will be on getting out everyone. Not just who already has the special visas because theres no evidence that theyve all been able to get out of the country. A lot of them are sheltering in Place And Havent even made it to kabul. But i think a lot of the actual work within the president s own party and if he engages the other will be around making sure that we get all of our folks and our friends and allies out. Nicolle wallace, thank you so much. You can catch deadline White House every weekday from 4 00 to 6 00 p. M. Eastern. Next, well talk to john garmindi. And general Barry Mccaffrey is here to answer this. Was the War In Afghanistan even winnable in the first place . But first, To Richard who has an update for us on other Breaking News were following. A very good sunday to you. Breaking news. Youve been talking about haitis authorities just announcing the Death Toll nearly doubling since their last update. At least 1,297 have died related to yesterdays massive 7. 2 magnitude earthquake. Nearly 3,000 people were injured. United States And United Nations now working on relief efforts. Meanwhile, tropical Storm Grace expected to reach haiti as early as tomorrow. Its likely to hamper Recovery Efforts and create problems for those displaced by the earthquake. Saturdays quake was bigger than the one that Hit Haiti in 2010. That 7. 0 quake killed over 200,000 people and displaced millions. That has officials now saying that the Death Toll could go much higher. More american voices right after this break. This break born to be wild see disneys jungle cruise. Applebees and a movie, now thats eatin good in the neighborhood. Im dads greatest sandcastle and greatest memory but even im not as memorable as eating Turkey Hill Chocolate Peanut Butter Cup Ice Cream with real cocoa. Well, thats the way the sandcastle crumbles. You Cant Beat Turkey hill memories. Limu Emu Doug oh are you using liberty Mutuals Coverage Customizer tool . Sorry . Well, since you asked. It finds discounts and policy recommendations, so you only pay for what you need. Limu, youre an animal whos got the Bird Legs now . Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. vo singing, or speaking. Reason, or fun. Daring, or thoughtful. Sensitive, or strong. Progress isnt either or progress is everything. Guys, as we get older, we all lose testosterone. Force Factors Test X180 works to boost it back. Build muscle, Increase Energy, fuel desire, and improve performance. Rush to walmart for test x180, the 1 Fastestgrowing Testosterone Brand in america. Were briefed on the talibans swift takeover of kabul. Leaving the questions of what happens next in the region. Democratic congressman, John Garamendi of california, joins us now. I love that your name is similar to mine, first of all, so thank you for that. He is chair of the armed Services Subcommittee on readiness. He was briefed today by the biden administration on developments in afghanistan and since were just among friends here, can you tell me what was covered in your briefing with the biden administration . Well, everything that they knew at that hour of the morning, which was 9 00 on the east coast. 6 00 here on the west coast. The reality is that everything changed or many, many things changed in the course of this day. They talked about the troops that are going in to take out americans and also other afghan people that worked with the United States. In the intervening time, obviously, the government collapsed. At that point, they would not tell us where ghani had gone or if he was still in the country. Perhaps they knew. Perhaps they didnt. In any case, shortly there after, we learned ghani had fled and that the government had simply disappeared. I wouldnt say collapsed. I would say simply disappeared. That briefing was very useful. There were questions asked about the evacuations. About the safety of the troops. Made it also very clear that americans who would respond to any attack in a very serious way, that we would not take lightly any attack on american troops. We just spoke to our terrorism analyst, malcolm nance. He told us were dealing with a different taliban than existed in 2001. Others have said that in different ways in this broadcast. That lessons might have been learned, there might be a different willingness to provide Safe Haven to terrorists. Sounds to me like a naive american hope that sometimes gets us into trouble. Do you see any evidence that the taliban 2021 remix is different than the original 2001 album . Well, i think anybody that predicts how this is going to turn out is being either naive or just plain foolish. We know that 20 years have gone by. We know that some of the original taliban leaders are no longer alive. We have, we do know that theyre willing to negotiate. They were negotiating during the trump administration. Those negotiations essentially stop when trump announced that all american troops would be out in may of this year. So well see what goes on here, but what really should happen is the United States, the European Allies should reach out to whomever the leadership is in the taliban, and it is not clear in any of the reporting that ive heard, that we know who the top person will be nor who that Leadership Team will be. We do know who the negotiators were. Some indication that those were not the top leaders. Certainly not the military leaders. So well have to see. But we should be anxious to begin that discussion. This is going to be the new government. Like it or not. We dont like it, but this is the reality on the ground and so we need to engage and in that engagement, we need to make it clear what our price for continued support for the people of afghanistan is. The president s made it clear that we will continue to support the people. The bad government, that may not occur. In the 90s, if my number is not mistaken, only three foreign governments recognized the taliban as the legitimate government. In the region. All in the region. What youre describing is the need to engage, to accept that fact on the ground and engage with them, would you suggest that the United States deals with the taliban as the legitimate leader of the country and negotiates with them and pushes them the way we do any number of countries around the world or is there some threshold of conditions, behavior, you would want to see met before the United States recognizes them as a legitimate ruler. I certainly wouldnt recommend recognizing them as a legitimate government. Right now, we dont know who they are. We dont know what theyre going to do. But we do need to engage. We do have, i dont know, three, four, Five Thousand american troops in kabul. And we have perhaps tens of thousands of afghans who worked with us during the 20 years. So we need to at least engage in that way. Probably on a military to Military Side of it, we need to also be aware that there is a probability, at least in my mind, that its going to be an unsettled situation between the taliban and among the taliban. Who is going to be the most powerful warlord . Will that person then become the head of a government in kabul . Theres a lot of history here of friction and outright fighting between the various ethnic groups, religious groups within afghanistan. And i would surmise, ill take a guess here, maybe jump ahead of everything, and say its not clear who is going to be the most powerful and who is going to actually run a government in kabul. Therefore we should recognize nobody as a legitimate Person Or Government until that sorts out, but we should definitely engage to put forth those things that are important to us. The safety of our troops. The safety of afghans that worked with us. Women, children. Those kind of things. Congressman John Garamendi, thank you so much for joining us. Want to know what the death of democracy looks like . Al jazeera has the picture of the night. Showing members of the taliban inside Afghanistans President ial palace in kabul. We are told the taliban plans to rename the country the islamic emirate of afghanistan. The takeover happened quicker than anyone imagined, which lead to a Big Question For America and the world. Does the Talibans Takeover a failure of u. S. Policy or of u. S. Expectations . Joining me now, msnbc Military Analyst and retired four star general, Barry Mccaffrey. He served in the vietnam war, to which many parallels are being drawn right now, and a Division Commander of the gulf war. General, what would it take for the people of the u. S. Or of afghanistan to have any kind of victory in this situation . Is it too late . Well, look, right now, there are no strategic objectives to the United States or afghanistan. Political or military. There are no military operational considerations. The only question on the table is tactical. We have a very small Military Force in kabul international. Its a one Runway Airport surrounded by mountains. The taliban will besiege it and close it off within 48 hours and well be able to interdict all flights in and out of that airfield. The question is can we get american citizens, contractors, Embassy Personnel out of the airport without fighting the taliban and then withdraw the Military Force . The taliban hold all the cards. They can bring in artillery. Reenforce their people by opening the prisons. They can bring in armored elements that theyve captured from afghan Security Forces. Were in a very tricky, troublesome situation. I dont anticipate the taliban are stupid enough to go after that Military Force. But we want to talk about capacity not intentions. So i think if they did rather than watch, we would escalate massively. Thats to nobodys advantage. Right now, we got to talk to the taliban. We got to get the americans out of there. We got to withdraw the Military Force. Then these other questions of women and girls. By the way, there wont be one afghan national to get through the perimeter around Kabul Airport and withdraw unless the taliban allow it. Theyre not going to. So those questions are all behind us until we see The End of the u. S. Presence in afghanistan. General Barry Mccaffrey, thank you for joining us. Next, youll hear from one of the few american soldiers to serve in both vietnam and afghanistan. He was there when saigon fell. So how does he feel about seeing Kabul Fall Today . With Pronamel Repair toothpaste, we can help actively Repair Enamel in its weakened state. Its innovative. My go to toothpaste is going to be Pronamel Repair. vo unconventional thinking means we see things differently, so you can focus on what matters most. Thats how weve become the leader in 5g. 1 in customer satisfaction. And a partner who includes 5g in every plan, so you get it all. This is the sound of an asthma attack. That doesnt happen. This is the sound of better breathing. Fasenra is a different kind of asthma medication. Its not a steroid or inhaler. Fasenra is an Addon Treatment for asthma driven by eosinophils. Its one Maintenance Dose every 8 weeks. It helps prevent asthma attacks, improve breathing, and lower use of oral steroids. Nearly 7 out of 10 adults with asthma may have elevated eosinophils. Fasenra is designed to target and remove them. Fasenra is not a Rescue Medication or for other eosinophilic conditions. Fasenra may cause allergic reactions. Get help right away if you have swelling of your face, mouth, and tongue, or trouble breathing. Dont stop your asthma treatments unless your doctor tells you to. Tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection or your asthma worsens. Headache and Sore Throat may occur. This is the sound of fasenra. Ask your doctor about fasenra. If you cant afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. Introducing xfinity rewards. Our very own way of thanking you just for being with us. Enjoy rewards like Movie Night specials. Xfinity mobile benefits. And exclusive experiences, like the chance to win tickets to see watch what happens live. Hey its me. The longer youve been with us. The more rewards you can get. Like sharpening your Cooking Skills with a top chef. Join for free on the Xfinity App and watch all the rewards float in. Our thanks. Your rewards. So many people are overweight now and asking themselves, why cant i lose weight . For most, the reason is insulin resistance, and they dont even know they have it. Conventional starvation diets dont address insulin resistance. Thats why they dont work. Now theres golo. Golo helps with insulin resistance, getting rid of sugar cravings, helps Control Stress and emotional eating and losing weight. Go to golo. Com and see how golo can change your life. Thats golo. Com. Welcome back to our continuing Breaking News Coverage of the Talibans Takeover of afghanistan. Joining me now by phone, the Afghan American novelist, khaled hoseini. The author of the kite runner. From the soviet invasion to chaos, Refugee Crisis to the rise of the taliban. Hes also a good Will Ambassador for the United Nations refugee agency. Thank you so much for joining us. You spent your early childhood in kabul. What has it been like to watch the taliban take over the country again today . Very hard to describe how devastating it is. Absolutely nauseated. I woke up this morning. Looked at my phone and saw that kabul had been taken over. Havent lived there in a long time, but will always have a deep connection with kabul. The events of the last few days have been absolutely heartbreaking for myself, my family and every afghan ive spoken to in in community. What are you hearing firsthand from family and friends still in afghanistan right now . I spoke to a cousin of mine in Western Afghanistan and she told me that she heard gunfire and the sound of fighting for days. And then eventually, it ended after just a few days and thats when she knew that the taliban had in effect taken the city and when she went out the next day, she saw the taliban flag flying, she knew that the city had fallen and now she lives in a state of anxiety. She has a daughter. She has grandchildren, some of whom are girls. Shes very concerned and scared about whats going to happen next and none of us can reassure her. Obviously this is Breaking News and were talking to people to get the latest bits of information, but i wanted you to come on because youre a novelist and a big thinker and i wanted to ask you about the drama behind this. The most powerful country on earth and then before it, the soviet union. Another powerful empire that thought it could change this country. That thought it could bring it under its thumb. Under its way of life and failed. One after another going back a longer history even than that. How do you see that Drama Today of these powerful empires and the reality of the country you come from . Well, look, i think theres an understandable desire to just draw parallels and saw the United States failed just as the soviets did, but i want to draw, i do want to draw a distinction. You know, i dont believe that the afghan people rejected the presence of the u. S. The taliban are a small minority. Nobody really knows how many there are in their ranks, but they are a tiny, tiny minority of afghans. They are not representative of the afghan will. In my experience going to afghanistan, people have very complicated feelings about the presence of the United States. They have grievances against the United States, many of which were i think justified, but on the balance, they saw the presence of the United States in afghanistan the stabilizing force and as a buffer against a type of violence and cruelties that were subjected to in the 1990s. So to see this as an afghan victory against the United States is i think a sort of way to think about it, but its much more nuanced than that. How do you see every Day Life changing for afghans under taliban rule . Weve been talking to other guests in this hour about whether the taliban has learned anything in the last 20 years or being out of power, whether it has changed, whether on some of these points of treatment of girls and women or providing harbor to terrorists or not, there might be some evolution. Do you think there will be any evolution or do you think this is back to 2001 . You know, ive been thinking for days about some positive angle to this because for the life of me, ive really struggled to find a positive angle. A way of looking at this. The only one that i can think of is that perhaps with 20 years of passage and casualties on their side and seeing that afghanistan is no longer the country they left behind 20 years ago, the taliban has sort of come to a reckoning they have to change their way. That if they want to be a viable entity if their region for the foreseeable future, it behooves them to build a functioning nation and that requires acknowledging the country has changed. Not using violence. An important issue that is very, very dear to my heart is to respect the rights and wellbeing of afghan women and girls. If afghan women are once again participating in society, the country is doomed. Talks a good game, but i think the coming days, weeks, and months will show us what were dealing with. What do you think the United States owes afghanistan at this point . Look, i call on the United States and i call on all other countries to not give up on afghanistan. I realize that the strange thing to say of the United States is to withdraw from afghanistan. But i do call on the international community to not forget about the people to let them suffer in they can exert on the taliban and stand united in the message that violence must not be used to prevent afghan citizens. That the essential Human Rights of afghan people must be respected. Most importantly, the rights of women and girls. The two most vulnerable groups with rights, the ones that have been strict of the last 40 years. Please stand strong on this issue. And dont allow afghanistan to slump back into the draconian and into the really the sort of depressing and Distopian Society it was in the 1990s. I want to thank you. As this story broke, yours was one of the voices i was desperate to get on. Just wanted to hear from. The author of the kite runner. Thank you so much for joining us. Theres another big question on my mind tonight. After 20 years of War In Afghanistan, how does losing the War Weigh on the minds of those who served there . Joining us now is don nicholas. He served in afghanistan as well as in vietnam and iraq. Don, as a veteran of the afghan war, i want to start with your thoughts about the developments in Kabul Today and The End of americas longest war. What is your, whats on your Mind Today . I am completely frustrated, angry. And i sympathize with any of those troops that have to deal with this. You served as marine guard in saigon in 1975. Striking parallel to now as we see embassy evacuations in kabul. What similarities do you see compared to 46 years ago and how are the two wars different . Well, the first is the total lack of understanding of what was happening in the beginning of The Fall Of Saigon and the complete disregard for what happened in The Fall Of Kabul and afghanistan. It seems that we dont want to learn from our history. Its being decimated every time we turn around and its being repeated over and over and over. What are the differences . At this point, i dont know if there are a lot of differences. I still hold the people of both nations responsible for letting their countries fall. I will give the vietnamese credit. At least it took saigon 11 days before the bc finally came in. Kabul, what did it take . Less than 24 hours. Nothing is going off. I remember sorry to interrupt, but a lot of americans watching this, don, have a sense of their country as able to do anything. Able to conquer any foe, climb any hill. We know we have the most powerful military in the world. You told the Wall Street Journal that you feel as if america, quote, accomplished nothing during the afghanistan war. The evidence is in your favor. How does the picture we have of the country as this Indom Force square with the losses that youve seen up close . Just looking at the 7,000 total troops involved that have died in iraq and afghanistan, and the thousands that have been wounded. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands more than likely of the civilians and afghan, the anp and the ana. Its just a travesty that we allow this stuff to happen. Don nicholas, thank you for your service and thank you for joining us tonight. Weve got some new information to tell you out of kabul. A State Department Spokesperson tells Nbc News almost all u. S. Embassy personnel are now at Henry Karzai international airport. Well continue to keep you posted as new information comes in. Well be right back. Mes in well be right back. Music playing. Theres an america we build and one we explore one thats been paved and one thats forever wild but freedom means you dont have to choose just one adventure you get both. Introducing the Allnew 3row Jeep grand Cherokee L jeep. Theres only one. Jeep grand Cherokee L we did it again. Verizon has been named americas most reliable network by rootmetrics. And our customers rated us 1 for Network Quality in america according to j. D. Power. Number one in reliability, 16 times in a row. Most awarded for Network Quality, 27 times in a row. Proving once again that nobody builds networks like verizon. Thats why were building 5g right, thats why theres only one best network. We are back following the Talibans Takeover of afghanistan. Its The End of a 20year presence of u. S. Troops. But who is the taliban . What do they want exactly . We know the taliban was formed in 1990s, Driving Out Soviet Forces in the country and declared afghanistan an islamic state in 1996 after Seizing Kabul and now, theyre on the verge of seizing the kabul. Again, with me now, author of the book no good men among the living. America, the taliban, and the war through afghan eyes. Anan, you have written that this government may not even last three months. You said that the u. S. Designed the afghan state to meet Washingtons Counterterrorism interests. Not the interests of afghans and what we see today is the result. Explain. When the u. S. Invaded 2001, they didnt try to set up a democratic sate with responsible institutions, staff by technocrats. The u. S. Brought in warlords and more or less installed them as De Facto rulers across the Country Side. So the state the u. S. Created was made of gunmen, private security contractors, drug lords, dead squads. The u. S. Also created a state, largely privatized. Most of the basic functions of the state were outsourced to private actors. So afghans were really hopeful for the u. S. Invasion and for some sort of democracy instead were confronted with a corrupt, oppressive state and so every day, they were facing night raids, air strikes, disappearances and this way, they began to turn, especially the Country Side, against the american backers. Youve gone deep on this question of who the taliban is. What they want. And theres this question throughout this broadcast of whether there has been any change. You and i have changed in the last 20 years. Most people have changed in the last 20 years. Has there been learning and growing . Should we understand the taliban to be who they were in regard to women, with regard to relationships with Terror Groups . Is there evidence theyre different . I spent a lot of time with the taliban interviewing them on the Country Side. In some ways, theyre different. In some ways theyre the same. The taliban of the 90s were mostly religious students. The current It Ration are quite different. And almost every single person you meet in the taliban has lost Loved Ones to Drone Attacks or some sort of crimes and joined the taliban because of revenge. They want to revenge against the u. S. , against the afghan government. That means their World View is a lot more diverse than it was 20, 25 years ago. In more ways, theyre more open to many things. However, theyre still a product of the afghan Country Side where tradition is still very important. Even in governmentcontrolled areas, you will not see women walking outside of the house. So theyre very much a product of that. So, unfortunately from the perspective of women, i dont think theyve changed much at all. Weve been hearing two different narratives tonight, both of which sound quite plausible. Which is one, that this is going to be very, very scary for women and girls in particular because of the views you were just describing. The american presence there. The american military adventure there, however, it might have failed, was hopeful for women and provided a break from the repression of 96 to 2001. But were also hearing what you said at the beginning of this segment about how america botched this from the start. Sided with warlords. As america departs, how do you think about the next few decades . Which of these forces do you think will dominate the next 20year period . Afghanistan, like any country on earth, is really diverse. It has its conservatives. Liberals. It has people in the city with one type of lifestyle. People on the Country Side with a very different type of lifestyle. In the Country Side, Life Hasnt really improved for women. But in the cities, it has. I think the problem we see, some kind of reversal of that trend. In the Country Side, people are being bombed and suffering all sorts of calamities so life is actually better when theres no war. And ive interviewed a lot of women from the Country Side who wanted the war to end and wanted the americans to leave because they didnt want to be bombed. Unfortunately, Life Isnt going to be good. Im not sure how many folks on Tv Today have interviewed members of the taliban so im happy we have the other anan g. On tonight. Thank you so much for joining us. Next, a plea for help from a Film Maker in afghanistan. In a. R kills Plaque Bacteria at the Gum Line to help keep the Gum Seal tight. New parodontax active gum repair toothpaste. I dont just play someone brainy on tv im an actual neuroscientist. And i love the science behind Neuriva Plus. Unlike ordinary memory supplements, Neuriva Plus fuels six key indicators of Brain Performance. More Brain Performance . Yes, please neuriva. Think bigger. This may look like a regular Movie Night. But if youre a kid with diabetes, its more. Its the simple act of enjoying time with friends, knowing you understand your glucose levels. Hey google, turn up the heat. Liberty mutual Customizes Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. How much money can Liberty Mutual save you . One two three four five 72,807 72,808. Dollars. Yep. Everything hurts. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. With relapsing forms of ms. Theres a lot to deal with. Not just unpredictable relapses. All these other things too. It can all add up. Kesimpta is a oncemonthly athome injection. That may help you put these Rms Challenges in their place. Kesimpta was proven superior at reducing the rate of relapses, active lesions, and slowing Disability Progression vs aubagio. Dont take kesimpta if you have hepatitis b, and tell your doctor if you have had it, as it could come back. Kesimpta can cause serious Side Effects, including infections. While no cases of pml were reported in rms clinical trials, it could happen. Tell your doctor if you had or plan to have vaccines, or if you are or plan to become pregnant. Kesimpta may cause a decrease in some types of antibodies. The most common Side Effects are upper respiratory tract infection, headache, and injection reactions. Ready for an Athome Treatment with dramatic results . Its time to ask your doctor about kesimpta. Dont settle. Start your day with secret. Ready for an Athome Treatment with dramatic results . Secret stops odorcausing Sweat 3x more. And the Provitamin B5 Formula is gentle on skin. With secret, outlast anything no sweat. Secret. All strength. No sweat. A Film Maker is reaching out, warning of the humanitarian crisis. On friday, he tweeted this. Everything that i have worked so hard to build as a Film Maker in my country is at risk of failing. The taliban will strip womens rights. We will be pushed into the shadows of our homes and our voices, our expression will be stifled into silence. I will stay and fight for my country, but i cannot do it alone. I need allies like you. The world should not turn its back on us. Adding, quote, please pray for us. I am calling again, please do not be silent. Thats all the time i have for today. Continuing coverage from afghanistan throughout the night here on msnbc beginning with the Mehdi Hasan Show Right after this quick break. Whooping cough is highly contagious for people of any age. And it can cause violent uncontrollable coughing fits. Ask your Doctor Or Pharmacist about whooping Cough Vaccination because its not just for kids. I just heard something amazing now for the first time one medication was approved to treat and prevent migraines. Nurtec is the first and only option proven to treat and prevent migraines with one medication. Onederful. One quick dissolve tablet can start fast and last. Dont take if allergic to nurtec. The most common Side Effects were nausea, stomach pain, and indigestion. With nurtec odt, i treat migraine my way. Whats your way . Ask your doctor about nurtec to find out welcome to allstate. Where everything just seems to go your way. Youre in good hands with allstate. Click or call for a lower Auto Rate today. With downy infusions, let the scent set the mood. Feel the difference with downy. Youre in good hands with allstate. Im evies best camper badge. But even im not as memorable as eating Turkey Hill Chocolate Chip Cookie Dough creamy premium Ice Cream and chasing fireflies. Dont worry about me. Im fine. You Cant Beat Turkey hill memories. Why choose proven Quality Sleep from Sleep Number . Because a quality Nights Sleep is scientifically proven to help Increase Energy and improve recovery. And it keeps you at your best all day long. The new Sleep Number 360 Smart Bed is temperature balancing. And it helps keep you asleep by sensing your movement and automatically adjusts to keep you both effortlessly comfortable. The Sleep Number 360 Smart Bed is on sale now during our biggest sale of the year. Tonight, as america brings its afghan rule to an end, the taliban are back in charge. President ghani has fled the country and now, afghan refugees are trying to do the same. Well have reaction from the former afghan ambassador to the u. S. And former Army Ranger and afghan veteran, colorado congressman, jason crow. Plus, how did we get to this point and Where Do We Go From Here . Well have live updates. Good evening. It was December 2001 when then president george w. Bush made this announcement