Country. Joining me now, Ali Arouzi Nbc correspondent. Ali, Thank You for being here. To start things off, could you tellrt us the reaction in teher to whats happening on their border . Reporter well, its a mixed bag, jonathan, from teheran. Traditionally iran is ideologically opposed to the taliban. They are suni, the iranians are shia and they never read off the same hymn sheet. As history has always told us, your Enemys Enemy is your friend, and they are an enemy of the united states and iran is welcoming a large swath of u. S. Troops disappearing from their border. And weve also seen extraordinary scenes, jonathan, of Afghan Military Personnel Pouring Acrossta the Border Int Iran in advance vehicles with advanced equipment. No doubt provided to them by the united states which the iranian Defense Ministry will be very happy to get their hands on. Thats the military side of it. The humanitarian side of it is that the iranians have opened up three Border Crossings on this very porous border between afghanistan and iran. Theyre housing refugees there in temporary housing. And as you know, jonathan, iran has roughly 2 1 2 Million afghan refugees here, mostly undocumented, and theyre going to be seeing a lot more pour into this country as the situation continues to deteriorate in afghanistan. And its a very, very difficult life for them here in iran, jonathan. They have to do menial jobs, usually dangerous jobs. Theyre not paid very well. They dont get any benefits. Their Children Cant go to school, buten its still a Bett Option for them than afghanistan. So a very desperate situation fory a large swath of the afgh people. Ali, another question for you, and that is this. Is the iranian regime worried about having a failed state on its eastern border . Reporter partly yes and partly no. The regime in iran sort of thrives on chaos around its borders. Thats how they operate best. So i think and theyve always hedged their bets in afghanistan. Thatsin a very important point. At the height of the tensionim afghanistan, the government in iran was giving the karzai Government Money and was giving the taliban weapons. So they know how to balance the chaos there pretty well. They also want to fill the vacuum that the u. S. Is going to leave in afghanistan. So theyre quite well tuned to dealing with these chaotic situations, and Theyll Probabl be able to balance it out to their benefit, especially now that the u. S. Is not on their border. And, ali, i appreciate that you are a journalist and you do not give your opinions, but given the assessment that you just gave us that the iranian regime sort of thrives on chaos, believes that they can basically negotiate the balance in that chaos, especially dealing with the taliban, is there any possibility from your years of being there that the iranian regime might be taking its abilities, thinking that its abilities are a lot stronger, considering Whatt Weve seen i afghanistan in just a few short days where the taliban is here we are on the verge of taking on the entire country . Reporter well, i think theyre being very careful, jonathan. Like i said initially, theyre ideologically opposed to the taliban, butop the iranians hav been making statements over the last 24 hours now that theyve been talking to the taliban, that the taliban has guaranteed the safety of its personnel in herat, In Kabul. So they are being careful not to ruffle their feathers and see how the dust settles there. I dont think the iranians want to open up front with the taliban. Theyve got enough problems to deal withv along their other borders. So theyre hedging their bets there to see what happens. You know, unlike the u. S. And other western person in afghanistan, theyre not eye evacuating, the iranians. Theyre staying there. Theyve obviously struck some sort of deal however temporary it may be with the taliban. And theyll Put Their feelers out as we go forward to see how much influence they can garner with the new regime in afghanistan. Ali arouzi, Nbc News correspondent in teheran, Thank You very much for joining me today. Jo joining me now, Nbc News chief foreign Affairs Correspondent Andrea Mitchell. Andrea, Thank You so much for coming to the Sunday Show. From where you sit and your years of reporting from the White House and on afghanistan, from the State Department, your assessment of what we are seeing. We see the breaking News Banner down there, Taliban Enter Kabul. Reporter well, it is the only comparison one thinks of, of course, is saigon. The difference is that they are not entering in a hot war because they have temporarily, at least, agreed, we understand in doha, qatar, to a peaceful transition if, if the ghani government steps down. And i think that ought to be imminent. There is so much pressure, the reality on the ground is inescapable. That thisd afghan Government H fallen, and theov u. S. Is now trying to effectuate this with other countries, with the United Nations to see that this entry into kabul, which is now inevitable, is not going to be under fire, that it is not going to be a housetohouse, Urban Bloody Takeover of a city of 4 1 2 Million people, which, of course, would be catastrophic, more catastrophic than what were seeing right now. And to get Americans Out safely, so there were a couple thousand americans they had to get out. There were about 1400 left in the embassy, as best we know, and they have to be ferried out to the airport. They are going to try, Secretary Blinken said to Chuck Todd on Meet The Press, trying to establish intend to establish the embassy at the airport to tryir to keep some of these Siv Special Visas going. Some of those can be done outside of the country as well. But to try to have some semblance of an embassy, really its only Ass Framework if they have it at all inside the kabul airport. Aska long as that can be, that N Ben secured. But as you know, its going to take awhile to get everyone out. So theyre saying 72 hours is what they have notionally agreed to with the taliban, that the taliban are actually in the president ial palace, some handful of Numbers P talking to the outgoingbe government. And there are, of course, taliban representatives who have been inur doha talking all alon. And there has been, you know, a kind of statement from the u. S. Government from the State Department, from the White House that, well, were negotiating for ae diplomatic solution. Thatsat the only path that the taliban have been told that they will never get recognition around the world, they will never be a legitimate power as the ruler of afghanistan if they take over by military means. Well, that was rebutted by the reality on the ground, and we were arguing it at briefings every day. But that is now what has happened. They have taken over afghanistan, and it is with the use of force because that is how they took all of those provincial capitals, 15 different provinces falling like dominos. The largest city that just fell Al Sharif was the crowning achievement for them. And that led to really desperate decision by the president of Camp David and his national Security Team Yesterday to flow in more troops, the total now 5,000 to secure what is an evacuation with the taliban about to take over, jonathan. And on that point, andrea, as we, know that President Biden s been briefed today on the situation in afghanistan, but im wondering how is it possible or why does it seem like the biden administration was caught completely Off Guard by how quickly the taliban would race to and enter kabul . Reporter the Surprise Factor was that the Afghan Military collapsed, not just the line forces, but the Special Forces, the besT Fighters that they had. That they not only surrendered without firing a shot, but just turned over their equipment, surrendered. Some were reportedly executed as they were surrendering. But they just gave up completely and ran from the fight. And this is after billions and billions of dollars spent over 20 years to build up that force. They had a force of 300,000 which vastly outnumbered the taliban. But you canT Fight a Guerrilla Force as we learned in vietnam so many decades ago, without having a will to fight. And despite the best the American Forces, the highly trained American Forces could do in vietnam, we basically ended up giving up and getting out. And that is what is happening here because with the withdrawal that we didnt even have the 2,500 remaining Counter Insurgency forces that we did have, were all, for all intents and purposes, gone. Once Bagram Air Base was shutdown, the handwriting really was on the wall. And now what were seeing according to courtney kube, my Pentagon Colleague earlier today, the jail with 5,000 to 7,000 hardened taliban prisoners were handed over once bagram fell to the afghan authorities. Once the taliban arrived and took over a bagram in the last hours and unlocked those prison gates, and thats what theyve been doing as theyve moved through the d country. Theyve been unlocking prisons and releasing the worst of the terrorists. So youve got Al Qaeda mixed in with that lot. I mean, these are desperate people Richard Engel was reporting they havent had power since h they left with the generators and the electricity. So they tookto out, you know, mt of the important the planes were flown out. But they left a lot behind. They destroyed a lot of communications gear. Without lpower, Those Prisoner Have Beense in the kabul summer without any kind of facilities, you know, for weeks now. So these people are probably sick and desperate as well. And you could see another Chopper Nowco in real time flyi as those shinooks are taking people out, you know. You can fit a fairly large number on those choppers since vietnam. Were hearing what could be firecrackers or fire in the distance. Right. With that, Andrea Mitchell, Thank You very much for your reporting. Were going to go now, youh mentioned her name, so were going to talk to her. Nbc News Pentagon Correspondent courtney kube. Courtney, so great to see you. Pickup where andrea left off, talking about after all these years and all the resources put into training the afghan forces, that they would f surrender, pu down their weapons, take off their uniforms and blend back in to the population. The reaction in Theto Pentagon whats happening in afghanistani reporter yes, so thats really been the factor here thats been a Game Changer on the ground, is the fact that the afghan Security Forces did not stand Up To the taliban in a way that the u. S. Assessed that they would. But you have to kind of take a step back here Andnd Look at th from their perspective. Number one, the u. S. Announced, President Biden announced back in april that the u. S. Militarily was going to completely withdraw by the beginning of september. That meant that the support that the u. S. Military had been providing to the Afghan Military for years now in logistics, in intelligence, all over the country and in very critical way supporting them with air power, that was allwi going to go away. So the morale of the Afghan Military began to deteriorate then. And fissures and potential fractures began to emerge then. That being said, there still are some elements or there were some elements of the Afghan Military that were very capable. The afghan Special Forces and the commandos, they have been a very strong and capable Fighting Force for several years now. Theyve been carrying on their own independent operations against the taliban and against Al Qaeda and isis fighters. They have been able to conduct their own logistics. They do their intelligence gathering. In fact, at times they would gather their Intelligence And Share it with The Americans. Theyve been a capable Fighting Force. What changed in the last month or two is that as areas have come under threat and attacked by thist taliban offensive, th afghan Government Has been sending some of these special operators out to the most critical areas to help sure thep up. Excuse me. To help sure them up, including the north which andrea mentioned. Herat in the west, Kandahar In The South and to kabul. These commandos are exhausted. They are worn thin. As Theth Taliban was cutting th off, it became harder and harder for them to be resupplied. And frankly they just started to break down and they could not defendul those cities any more their own from this onslaught of taliban fighters. So thats really been the Game Changer here. As youth mentioned, jonathan, y know, the u. S. And the International Community Have Beenin pouring in billions of dollars to build up this Afghan Military. I remember doing a story when they first announced their End Strength was going to be 352,000. I think it was in 2010 In Kabul, that they were going to build them up. But over time the Afghan Military has really been wrought with issues of corruption as the whole government there has faced and hasas had problems with, bu also theres been issues with i literacy. They have had problems with desertions, attrition. The military has struggled, but it is important to point out that with all those struggles, with all of the support over the years, the deterioration of the Afghanet Military Still has bee surprising to the Defense Officials i have been speaking to. L yeah, i was going to ask you, you know, what are pentagon brass saying about the fact that allac of the expertise that theyve handed over in terms of expertise, materiel to watch it seemingly evaporate in no time . Reporter i would characterize it as intense frustration to see whats happening because of the years that have been spent, the blood, the treasure that have been spent to builde up this Afghan Military. What it really comes down to, jonathan, is the u. S. Can train them up. They can provide them with the i weapons. They can do everything. They can give them everything. They can give them they can help build an Air Force. The Afghan Military had no Air Force 15 years ago. Now they have a relatively capable Air Force in many ways. And its it was literally one of the last asymmetric advantages they had over the taliban in these last few weeks its proven not to be enough. But the frustration among the military officials and Defense Officials ivend spoken with is that, look, you can provide them with all of the tools and the assets and the resources you but you cant give themou the Will Fight and you cant give them the determination to stand up and to risk their lives against the talt ban. Thats one advantage that the taliban has clearly had during this offensive. The taliban fighters are largely willing to lay down their lives, to push l forward and to fight here. And the Afghan Military has not shown that same determination and that same will. And the reality is thats not something that they can teach. You know, and i think that over time , i keep trying to lookt how were going to view this in the days and the weeks ahead, todays developments. And one of them, one thing i think that we will talk about a lot going forward, jonathan, is how the Afghan Military changes once the decision was made for the u. S. Military to withdraw. That was a real blow to their th morale. Think about, you know, think about these fighters there, who theyre not as well trained as the u. S. , theyre out in these rural areas in ways they can be cut off from the central government that is not very capable at supplying them. And then theyre told, well, these people who have been shoring you up, foreign allies who have been shoring you up fop years, are going to leave. Youre no longer going to have medevac, youre no longer going to have air support, logistics and supply, providing fuel, providing intelligence support, providing air traffic control, the abilitypr to tell them wher to conduct their strikes. Thats all going away in a couple of months. These are largely local forces and these are their neighborhoods. These are their towns. These are their people that theyre fighting among. They wantti to presumably they want to protect them. They want to help them. But when you arent going to have the backing, its not really surprising they dont all have the determination and the will to fight to the death when the taliban are pushing through. And, courtney kube, that is an excellent point to end your excellent report on. Courtney kube coming to us from the pentagon. M lets go now to the White House where joining me is senior white House Reporter Shannon Pettypiece. Shannon, Thank You very much for being here. Letshe pick up where courtney left off, her talking about the afghan forces, and i want to play what our colleague Richard Engelr had to say earlier toda about basically how i started Off Thell program, which is askg the question, arent people why was the biden administration caughtti Off Guard, so surprise by how quickly the taliban raced through afghanistan and is now entering kabul . Have a listen to what he said and well talk about it on the other side. There is not that that is happening as much as how fast it is happening. Would you agree with that . No. Everyone keeps saying that. Ive been listening all day. Oh, my god, were shocked. Im not, shocked at all. Last time i was here, i was looking at the calendar and figuring outal because now Wh Covid and travel, when are you going to have tod come back an how long you have to isolate for covid, you have to plan ahead a little onla traveling. I thought kabul would fall right around now. Fa that was a Gut Instinct. I think most people i spoke to believed that. I spoke to Afghan Government officials, military officials. It m was well known that the Security Services were collapsing a month, two months ago, three months ago. So this feigned surprise that maybeig its genuine surprise. If it is, i dont understand what its based on. It was quite clear that it was going to come to this when you started to see the taliban Take Territory without having to fight months ago. So, no, im not that all surprised by the speed. These things snowball. Once you have enough momentum and have enough weapons, nobody is going tove stand Up To you a nobody did. An so, to that point, shannon, richard saying it was quite clear monthsng ago, youre ther at the White House. Tell usre the reaction from the president and the biden administration, and also any Reporting Youst might have on their reaction to how quickly things changed with the taliban in afghanistan. Reporter Administration Officialsor repeatedly denied tt this was going to be the scenario that would unfold, even as recently as a few days ago. They had maintained that they felt the afghan forces could at least hold on to kabul. And i wouldn say maybe a week two ago, we were hearing administration officials talk about how they were optimistic that afghan leaders would step up, that the afghan people would unite. Itld appeared to be that the administration was still encouraging them to, to stand up and respond, and that, sure, maybe they were losing some of the surrounding provinces, but that was because they were trying to be more focused and strategic and protecting the major cities. Obviously that is not how things have gone and few people know this region better than richard. Im not surprised he was able to see that coming. But inside this administration, at least from what we were told publicly, this is not at all the scenario that they expected to play out. We do know that the president was briefed today on the situation again. He is at Camp David. He was briefed yesterday. The president Put Out a rather lengthy Statement Yesterday. That was the first time we heard from him addressing this in several days as the taliban came closer to kabul, and essentially saying that he was maintaining the course, that the priority here is on The Americans in that country and getting those Americans Out, Andy Ensuring Tt The Military Forces that have beenav sent in are protected an secure, and trying to expedite the process for the Visa Applications for those afghans who have aided the u. S. Forces. Obviously that Expedition Process is not going very quickly andot smoothly, but tha the focus is on helping The Americans and those who have Aidedan The Americans in the country right now, and not trying to help the afghan people. Essentially saying that the u. S. Maintains this afghanistan is now in the hands of the afghan people. They are setting their destiny. As part of that statement the president Put Out, he said one more year or five more years of u. S. Y Military Presence would t have madees a difference if the afghan people werent willing to rise up and defend their own country. So speaking to the issues that courtney was addressing a few moments agore about how the Afgn Securityw forces just didnt he thatst will to fight, so that h been a source of frustration in the administration you have been able to hear, the frustration of the afghan people to step up and show that leadership and unity. H shannon, one more quick question for you, and that is this. Any possibility of the president addressing the Nation Either Tonight or in the coming days on whats happening in afghanistan . Reporter you know, there is nothing scheduled at this point. Of course, everything could change. Like i rysaid, we did get a Ratr Lengthyra Statement from the today. Ent Thepr Administration has Put Th Secretary Of State out there this morning to do a number of the morning shows. They seemin to have selected hi to be the one out there to make those remarks. But the president is scheduled toes essentially be on vacation this week and possibly next. Its ibaugust, usually when president s takely vacations. Obviously he is not vacationing. He has been briefed on the situation today. But not being at the White House does make it a bit logistically tricky as well for Him To make any statement because there arent any reporters traveling with Him T at Camp David who he could easily speak to or get in front of a camera to address the people from. Right. All right, Shannon Pettypiece coming to us from the White House, White House correspondent. Thank you. We willte continue our ongog Rolling Coverage on the situation in afghanistan. Dont go anywhere. Oiin afghanisn dont go anywhere. Fine, well s. Its the easiest because its the cheesiest. Kraft. For the win win. [ ] if you have diabetes, its important to have confidence in the nutritional drink you choose. Try boost glucose control. Its clinically shown to help manage Blood Sugar levels and contains high Quality Protein to help manage Hunger And Support muscle health. Try boost today. Washed your hands a Lot Today . Probably like 40 times. Hands feel dry . Like sandpaper. Introducing new dove handwash, with 5 x moisturizer blend. Removes germs in seconds, moisturizes for hours. Soft, smooth. New dove handwash. Music playing. 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According to a White House official, President Biden was briefed by members of his national Security Team this morning and will continue to be briefed throughout the day. Lets go now to admiral james travidas, msnbc chief international Security And Diplomacy analyst, and former supreme commander, he command ed the mission in afghanistan for four years from 2009 to 2013. Admiral, Thank You very, very much for being here. The floor is yours. Your assessment of the situation as we know it right now on the ground in afghanistan In Kabul. Well, first of all, i have to say i was surprised that this happened so quickly and kabul fell so instantaneously. My very good Friend And Colleague Richard Engel said he predicted this months ago and even pinpointed the date. Hes got my vote for director of the c. I. A. If hes got that good intelligence. Everybody else missed it. And i think almost all of us would have felt, hey, were looking at six months anyway, maybe a year. But this complete collapse was simply a shock. 2, i think the fundamental question right now is, jonathan, why . How did this happen . And i very quickly put it in three buckets if i can. Sure. The taliban, we underestimated the taliban, their speed, their lethality, their relentless movement on the Battle Field. We just underestimated them. As we say, the enemy gets a vote in war and the use of their sanctuaries in pakistan, highly useful. Secondly, on the afghan Government Side of the coin, we overestimated clearly the will, the leadership, despite having provided them all the equipment, the exquisite intelligence, they never demonstrated the will to step up in this moment of crisis. And then plenty blame to go around. Certainly those of us in the u. S. Military who tried to train these afghan folks, clearly we have failed. We should have, in retrospect i think, instead of creating a kind of u. S. Army version of fighters, we should have built them more like the taliban. Faster, quicker, less reliant on that exquisite intelligence, less reliant on air power. Perhaps they could have developed the confidence to fight Toe To toe with the taliban. At this point, unfortunately, jonathan, when you combine those three elements, this one is over. One more question to you, admiral. Given that you were the Supreme Allied Commander for four years and had oversight over this, just personally for you, what does it mean to you to see afghanistan fall in this way . I am heart sick to watch this. I know the country well. Ive got a pair of Combat Boots downstairs with the dust of afghanistan all over them still. And one day i hope to go back to afghanistan. Under taliban rule that doesnt appear likely. Im wearing a Pocket Square that echos the colors of the afghan flag. I dont think that one is going to be flying proudly any time soon. Its a sad day for those of us who participated and put our hearts and our souls into this mission. Ill close by saying im often asked the question, well, was it all a waste of time . I dont think so. I think any afghan veteran can look in the mirror, look to his parents, look to his wife, look to his children and say, hey, for 20 years i stood on the wall and i defended the united states of america. Afghanistan was not an ungoverned space. No Terrorist Attack from afghanistan. I dont know if were going to be able to say that going forward, but we kept it for 20 years, but we have failed in The End. One more question. You brought up the men and women who served for the united states in afghanistan. What would you say to them, those who might be disappointed, at best angry, enraged that the forces that they helped train, the forces they worked with just dissolved so quickly . To all of them i would say that in warfare, political will, Battle Field Leadership Matter deeply. This, in that sense, was not their failure. It was the failure of the Afghan Government. Secondly and finally, i would have to say we have to do all we can to try and get those interpreters out, those who supported us on the Battle Field and do everything we can diplomatically to try and keep a modicum of support for girls and women. Thats one of the real tragedies were leaving behind. Admiral james travidas, Thank You very, very much for coming to the program today. Lets go back to Nbc News chief foreign Affairs Correspondent Andrea Mitchell. Andrea, you have some news to report. Reporter this is from a briefing that just ended with the bipartisan group of House Members. I should stress it was an unclassified briefing, and these are this is information notes im getting from someone inside that briefing. It was from Secretary Of State blinken from Defense Secretary Austin and the joint chiefs of Staff Chairman General Milley. And according to this briefing, the blinken told them that, we have troops in the area that were prepared for this scenario, that the State Department is focused as you know on getting, first of all, the american personnel out. Then american citizens, Embassy And Coalition personnel would be secondary, visa holders, and other categories like womens rights advocates. General milley said it is a very fluid dynamic situation, but not without its risks, that they are conducting at this Point A very orderly exercise, evacuating that same list of people. That they have the capability to manage and the capability to respond, and will respond if fired upon with a high level of vigor. The taliban has not made direct contact with u. S. Forces. The u. S. Hopes it will stay that way. If it does, according to what General Milley said, we are fully prepared to respond swiftly and strongly. We are prepared for the scenario. There were multiple scenarios. This was one of them. We have continued to monitor this and fully prepared to act strongly. He said it is highly dynamic and a risky operation, but he said the military is prepared for it. Obviously with the additional troops now numbering 5,000. House member asked Lloyd Austin if they have enough Fuel And Airlift to get people out. And he said that they do, and that there are rules of engagement. In addition, general austin was asked if he had spoken to the commander on the ground and whether the airport is open. He said he had spoken to the airport to the commander on the ground there at the air field. It is open still to Civilian Aircraft. This would mean the Charter Flights. Obviously no commercial flights at this point, i would imagine, but Charter Flights to get aid workers, americans, afghan supporters and others, correspondents if they are leaving at this point. So there are a number of people trying to charter out of there. And according to the Defense Secretary to both democratic and republican House Members, the airport still is open to those Charter Flights incredibly. So there is no closure of the airport at this point, and he has directed them, the u. S. Military on the ground, to make sure that the Airport Remains open as this evacuation proceeds. This, jonathan, i would assume is because on the sayso of the people in doha to our officials and the u. N. Officials, there are plenty of u. N. People as well there trying to get out from the nongovernment organizations as well, to keep that Airport Open as long as they can. Im looking at pictures now, that is right outside the airport. Ive been in that roundabout many a time trying to get out of kabul. I can imagine it is quite a road jamb. Andrea, so three take aways from this, from when you were reporting, notes from a House Member who was in that unclassified briefing by biden administration official Secretary Blinken, secretary austin, joint chiefs of Staff Chairman milley. The airport is still open to Civilian Aircraft as you made the point that most likely Charter Flights. Two, no contact has been made between the taliban and u. S. Forces. And three, and this is what i found very interesting, is that administration officials are saying that they were prepared for this kind of scenario. Reporter i think at best go ahead, andrea. Reporter no, im just saying, yes. I didnt mean to interrupt you. Prepared for this scenario down the road is what they are clearly saying they were prepared. But theyre clearly not prepared for it to have happened this quickly. Yes, they were prepared for an emergency evacuation. They always have those preparations after the decision to do an orderly departure in april. They started Making Plans. Secretary blinken said that today on Meet The Press that they were Making Plans to draw down in an orderly way. But having been at the State Department this week and talking to officials there and elsewhere in the government, there was no expectation it would happen this quickly. You saw what the president did at Camp David yesterday, having a National Security meeting. They Put Out a picture of that video, that virtual meeting that he held with his top advisers and ordering that additional 1,000 number of troops in was because they realized how quickly this was going to happen after it fell in the last 24 hours. I should point out to viewers the notes you just gave us from inside that unclassified briefing with members of the house came from a member who was inside. Did that member give you any reaction to what they heard . Reporter well, there was very strong reaction im told from Kevin Mccarthy from the republican leader, very critical, very strong reaction, so that the atmosphere in congress, In The House and the senate, most likely from elected officials, from most elected officials is going to be certainly criticism maybe from some democrats, but certainly from the republican leadership. They are not going to get a pass on this at all. Even though it was Donald Trump, of course, who set that May 1st withdrawal and what Secretary Blinken said today on nbc is that by may 2nd, there would have been an allout war because the taliban had said their decision not to attack american troops was only until May 1st. So theyre saying that on may 2nd, u. S. Would have been coming under attack as well as the afghan troops, and that it would have been a bloody Civil War and we would have had to surge forces in quickly. And that Joe Biden simply not prepared to do that. He made that very clear in his statement. Yesterday from Camp David he issued a statement saying four american president s have been involved in this in 20 years, hes not going to hand it off to a fifth. Andrea mitchell, Nbc News chief foreign Affairs Correspondent, Thank You as always for your reporting. Our coverage continues next. Stay with us. What happens when we Welcome Change . We can make Emergency Medicine possible at 40,000 feet. Instead of burning our past for power, we can harness the energy of the tiny electron. We can create new ways to connect. Rethinking how we communicate to be more inclusive than ever. With app, cloud and anywhere workspace solutions, vmware helps companies navigate change. Faster. Vmware. Welcome change. You love your pet. But hate wearing their hair. Did you know that your clothes can actually attract Pet Hair . With Bounce Pet Hair lint guard, your clothes can repel Pet Hair. One bounce Mega Sheet has 3x the Hair Fighting Ingredients of the leading dryer sheet. Simply toss into the dryer to bounce out hair lint. Look how the shirt on the left attracts Pet Hair like a Magnet Pet Hair is no match for bounce. Its available in fresh scent unscented. With bounce, you can love your pets, and Lint Roll less. Welcome back to continuing coverage of the Breaking News out of afghanistan where the taliban claimed they are now In Kabul and say they are in talks with the government there for a peaceful surrender. House members just wrapped up an unclassified briefing from the Secretary Of Defense Lloyd Austin, Secretary Of State anthony blinken, chairman of the Joint Chiefs Of Staff General Milley who told them that the situation in afghanistan is fluid and that they are prioritizing the safety of several groups. Joining me now Evelyn Farkas former Secretary Of Defense for russia, ukraine and eurasia. Greg whitlock for the washington post. The forthcoming book, the afghanistan papers, a secret history of the war. And michael ohanlan, from the brook inches institution. Brook, i want to start with you, not because of the washington post, but the afghanistan papers. I was reading online what you were able to uncover from the reporting that you have done and putting this book together. I would take it that you are by no means surprised by what is happening in afghanistan right now. Certainly not by the meltdown by the afghan Security Forces. As we reported in our coverage of the afghanistan papers, people within the u. S. Military knew that the afghan army and the afghan police were unreliable, that they had serious doubts that they could stand Up To the taliban once The Americans left. Frankly, theyve known this foreyears, even though u. S. Military commanders have repeatedly assured congress and the public that the afghans were a strong force and could defend their own country. So, no, im not surprised. I think a lot of people are surprised by the speed in which the taliban has essentially taken over the country in the course of a week. But again, you have to remember, the afghan way of war here is its common in the past for commanders, tribal commanders, Militia Commanders to sort of Put Their finger into the wind and see which way things are blowing, and to switch sides, change allegiances, get bought off, and thats what weve seen happen over the last several days. And i should point out part of your reporting was transcripts of actual interviews done with Military Personnel, that those personnel didnt actually think wasnt with a reporter, it was with government officials. So the unbridled criticism of what was happening in afghanistan during that time is truly remarkable. Evelyn, you were at the defense department. Your reaction and your analysis of what were seeing on the ground in afghanistan as we speak. Yeah, jonathan, i actually started, you know, working on the afghanistan portfolio as a senior Senate Staffer on the armed Services Committee under the bush administration, and then, of course, continued to work on it in the pentagon under the Obama Administration. And, of course, you know, President Biden was correct in his analysis that we werent going to gain anything by staying there longer. The problem is that we left precipitously. We should have negotiated something. The May 1st Deadline was a trump deadline. We already went past that deadline with the Biden August 31st deadline. We should have extended it actually into the winter, which is when the taliban is fighting less, and it would have then created much better opportunity for us to take out as many of the afghans, you know, the low number, the 70,000 Afghan Interpreters and supporters of the u. S. Military and civilian operations and their families. That doesnt include all the people helping ngos, all the other afghans who are at risk. We could have evacuated them and, of course, wouldnt have seen our people in jeopardy the way that we see it now if we had taken additional time. Again, it doesnt change the fact that ultimately, you know, we werent going to prevail with a government, you know, as craig outlined to some extent in his piece. I havent read all of them, but the problem was the political leadership, not just the military operations and the Military Commanders in afghanistan. It was really the political leader shep. Leadership. You know, evelyn, how worried no, im going to go back to picking up on what you were saying about the political leadership. Earlier in the week, former ambassador Ryan Crocker was on with Anderson Cooper and he made this point that i have not heard before, and that is this. That during the Trump Administration, during the negotiations with the taliban, the administration acceded to the taliban command that the Afghan Government not be at the table. His contention is because of that, it demoralized not only the Afghan Government, but the afghan the afghan Security Forces. What do you make of that . I think thats correct, jonathan, and it Echoes Something i think others have commented on looking at the macro situation saying the Afghan Government and the afghan people, its hard for them to have political will when they turn around and they see that the united states and the international community, but largely led by the united states, suddenly lacks political will. And that certainly was the case under the Trump Administration. We know that Donald Trump campaigned, you know, to remove the United States Military from afghanistan. He actually would have done It Kind of overnight, you know, precipitously without much planning. President biden thought, i think, that he had planned it a little bit better although he was handed this much weakened political military hand. You know, michael, let me bring you in here. I would love to get your reaction to what you have heard so far. Especially speaking of the president s statement, lengthy statement from yesterday. Your reaction to this where he says, one more year or five more years of u. S. Military presence would not have made a difference if the Afghan Military cannot or will not hold its own country in an endless american presence in the middle of another countrys civil conflict was not acceptable to me. Certainly craig and his colleagues have documented as others have just how painstaking this efforts been. But i dont agree with President Bidens statement. None of us can predict the future. Very few thought that the collapse of afghanistan would happen so fast, for example. But in five years time, if that Time Line is projected out, a number of things could have happened. Pakistan could have reassessed support for the taliban. It probably not have radically, but done so at the margin. They would have realized they couldnt wait for the next american president to make an abrupt decision to leave and reassess their approach at the Peace Talks when they were never serious. I agree with Evelyns Critique of the Trump Administrations approach there. I dont think you have a Crystal Ball in foreign policy. I dont think keeping 3 or 4,000 troops was an unreasonable burden compared to the stakes. Were now requesting to have to were now going to have to work much harder. Are you saying that despite that, we shouldnt be worried here in the united states that Al Qaeda could reconstitute and strike again . You have to be worried and vigilant. I dont think Ad Lot of those prisoners were hardcore Al Qaeda. There er may be some and there is not always a clean line with which Extremist Group that they are in. But i dont think that most of them believe that they want to come out and strike the west. Ande taliban know that if ther is one T Thing Weve shown over0 years, it is that we are prepared to T Fight pretty hard and try pretty hard to protect ourselves. So if theyct encourage or allowr in any waylo condone or support major Terrorist Movement on their soil, developing a plan to strike the west, i think they know that we will come in and do something severe about that. So if there is any kind of reassuring message that i would offer on this sadge day, that would be it. Be and with that, well have to leave it there. Evelyn, craig and michael, Thank You all very much. Coming up at the top of the hour, we continue to bring the latest Breaking B News out of kabul, afghanistan. Keep it right here. Hanistan keep it right here i may not be able to tell time, but i know what time it is. 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Citi launched the Impact Fund to invest in both women and entrepreneurs of color like me, so i can realize my vision and give everything ive got to my company, and my community. I got you. For the love of people. For the love of community. For the love of progress. Citi. Welcome back to the Sunday Show. Im jonathan capehart. In afghanistan, the taliban says that they have ordered their fighters to enter the Capital City of kabul. House members just received a briefing from Secretary Of State sorry, Secretary Of Defense Lloyd Austin, Secretary Of State Antony Blinken and chairman of the Joint Chiefs Of Staff general mark milley, where they reported that so far there have been no direct contact between the taliban and u. S. Forces according to a member who participated in the briefing. President biden was also briefed by his national Security Team at Camp David this morning as 5,000 u. S. Troops have been deployed to evacuate americans and allied afghans from the embassy In Kabul. Nbc news is reporting that the u. S. Is in intense negotiations with taliban to guarantee safe passage. This morning the taliban seized control of jalalabad and captured another key city in the north yesterday. Now joining me is ali arouzi, Nbc Correspondent and Bureau Chief in tehran. Thank you for coming back. Any update over the last hour of what the iranian regime is thinking of what is happening . Reporter as we spoke about it before, it ismixed bag. They are ideologically opposed to the taliban, but they are enemies of the united states which makes them a friend of iran in some odd way. The taliban have never had a particularly good relationship with iran. Sudanese and iran are shias. But they have always hedged their bets in afghanistan. They were providing money to the Afghan Government and arms to the taliban. And right now iranians are saying that they are talking to the taliban unlike many of the western countries. Iran is not evacuating afghanistan. They have issued statements saying that they have spoken to taliban leaders that have guaranteed the safety of their personnel in herat, In Kabul, that they will stay in the embassies there. The new iranian Government Here saying that they recognize the taliban. They dont even refer to them as the taliban. They refer to them as the muslim emirate, a sign of great respect for them. So i think that the iranians want to wait for the dust to settle in afghanistan and try to fill that vacuum that the u. S. Is leaving there. But the next few weeks is going to be critical to see how it all plays out there and how easily the iranians can have some sort of a relationship with the afghans. Putting the political and military perspective to one side, there is also going to be a massive deluge of afghan refugees coming into iran. There is already about 2. 5 million afghans in this country, most are undocumented. And there is going to be a lot more pouring in as we speak. Already three cities along The Border on the iranian side have set up Refugee Camps for afghans coming in. And i have to tell you, they are desperate, many are desperate to get out of there. Ive spoken to many afghans in iran that i know and they are calling on anybody that they know in the country to help them financially or any other way to get their family out of afghanistan and into iran. They are willing to leave behind their homes and their belongings just to get their family out. And it is a tough life for them here in iran, but it is a lot better than the alternative across The Border. One more question for you. You mentioned the number of refugees in iran stands at 2 Million. When weve seen this happen in other parts of the world, there is always concern from the nation receiving the refugees worries about their own stability. Does the iranian regime have any concern about as you say the number of refugees pouring over The Border to get out of afghanistan . Reporter i dont think that the concerns are huge because afghan refugees have been coming to this country since 1979, since the soviet invasion of afghanistan. And they are very itegrated in the society so far as a lot of the construction and Menial Work is done by afghans, work that iranians are not willing to do. So they are an integrated part of the society and very important part of iranian society. I think most of the buildings that you see in this Country Wouldnt be built if it wasnt for the afghan workforce. So they actually contribute a lot to iranian society. But they are not treated particularly well. They never get citizenship, they are treated as second class people. Their Children Cant go to school. And so it has quite a lot of benefits for iran and quite a struggle for the afghans coming here. But like i said, compared to what they are facing at home, it is a lot better. What is happening what is going to happen in afghanistan is going to be a staggering Roll Bac of reforms that have been made. For anyone who has worked or visited afghanistan, they know how frightening that for the taliban to have a stranglehold on all your social freedoms. Ali arouzi, Thank You very much for that report. Joining me now, Nbc News Chief Correspondent Andrea Mitchell. Last time we spoke, you were telling us about the briefing that had happened for House Members. We see that the senate now is getting a virtual briefing on afghanistan from the biden administration. Bring us Up To speed on what the House Members heard. Reporter what the House Members heard was unclassified. I have a few more notes that in fact they asked the question about whether im so sorry. That is okay. Andrea mitchell is getting her microphone on. We want to make sure that we hear okay. Well come back to you. Ali vitali who is our political correspondent, i believe that you are on capitol hill. Yes, you are. What do you have to tell us about what is happening there . Reporter yeah, a morning full of briefings that andrea was just beginning to tell you about. A series from the White House to lawmakers. First, those lieutenants from the white House Briefing House Members, and then moving on to a senate briefing. This is not first briefing that 1234 senators had gotten on it, they had one earlier in the Week Twhern all here for infrastructure. But at this point it is all virtual because all are home on recess not here in the capital. For House Members though, this was an unclassified briefing. They are expected to get a classified briefing the week of August 23 when they come back to washington much earlier than we expected them back at this point because their recess was supposed to go for longer than that. But certainly this pressing issue now rising to the top of the agenda here on capitol hill. And a little bit of the reporting that andrea as gotten from officials, basically people saying that this is a fluid and dynamic situation, not one without risks, but that at this point on the ground taliban forces have not directly encountered u. S. Forces. That is the way that these officials said on the call they hope that it stays. And really just continuing to highlight the fact that the goal right now is to get americans and allies out of the country right now and really just a strenuous and tense situation on the ground. Ali, Thank You very much. And we have Andrea Mitchell back. So andrea, take us inside the room there at that House Briefing as Ali Vitali said and as you said before we dropped, that it was an unclassified briefing. What more can you tell us about the specifics . At least as ali was just saying, everyone is spread around the country if not some perhaps even outside on congressional delegations. I dont know. So this was a Telephone Briefing unclassified for that reason. They were asked for instance whether president ghani has left the country as there have been media reports. That has not been confirmed to my knowledge by nbc and they refused to comment on that. They were also asked General Milley i believe, let me check my my note, general austin was asked about the airport being closed and again i think i told you that the airport he said is open because House Members were concerned, they are Hearing Reports that the airport was closed to civilian Charter Flights to try to get people out. They are getting calls from constituents, from womens groups and other Human Rights Groups beyond the immediate s. I. D. Recipients who are lined Up To leave on military u. S. Aircraft. So the Civilian Aircraft are very important, the charter aircraft. And he affirmed general austin, Defense Secretary, that he is keeping the Airport Open and has spoken to the commander on the ground. That is as of this morning. I should point out Kevin Mccarthy the republican leader was very critical of the lack of preparation he said, said that this reminds him of vietnam, that they have not yet been fully briefed. As you know, they will be briefed, but he was so critical that it is very clear this is not going to get bipartisan support and maybe even not fully democratic support because of the desperation of this advantage ace. And you do have a number of members, democrats as well as republicans, who have served in afghanistan and in the military. Thank you very much, andrea. And the key thing that you talked about in your report there is that administration officials at least not in this unclassified briefing, they would not confirm whether the afghan president is still in the country as some Media Outlets have been reporting. As always, Thank You very much. Joining me now, former Obama Deputy national Security Adviser Ben rhodes, Peter Bergen and you are no of the Rise And Fall of Osama Bin Laden. And Jane Harmon of california, great to see you all despite the things that we have to talk about. Peter, let me start with you because you have been focused on Osama Bin Laden, but who was Hold Up in afghanistan. Your reaction to what is happening now on the ground there and given your years of reporting from the region, are you as surprised as a lot of people seem to be by how quickly afghan forces folded . Im sure the taliban is surprised. It was very surprising how quick this happened. You know, u. S. Intelligence estimates were reporting a collapse in 30 to 90 days. Turned out to be just a few days. And the taliban has had a long time to plan for this. This sort of a bipartisan failure. President obama first announced withdrawal in 2009 but a surge of troops into afghanistan. President trump also kept talking about withdrawals and here we have President Biden following through on it. So there is plenty of blame to go around. There will be plenty of autopsies about who lost afghanistan. Bega afghans themselves had a role in it. And here we are seeing pictures shortly before the 20th anniversary of 9 11. Congresswoman, as a former member of congress, also you were on the armed Services Committee, intelligence committee, homeland security committee, former head of the woodrow wilson center. So you are steeped in foreign policy. Your reaction to what we are seeing happening in afghanistan. First i think that we should pause to reflect on the fact that americans are in Harms Way in afghanistan right now. And that 2,000 or more gave their lives to try to build a better society in afghanistan and 20,000 were grievously wounded. So lets Put That into the conversation. America tried hard to make afghanistan a better place. I agree with Joe Biden that we should leave. Majority of americans agree with Joe Biden. I think what was missing here was adequate Contingency Planning. We should have known that the government could would collapse which it has done. And i think a big indicate was the fact that during the Trump Administration, we had negotiations with the taliban offsite in doha, but we didnt include the government. And i think that undermined them and their will to fight was totally absent here and that is the factor that i think we underestimated, President Biden underestimated and we are now trying to play catchup. I think my thought is that the next 72 hours could go pretty well. I dont see what advantage the taliban has to shoot americans right now. I think that that would make their future really dicey. So i dont think that will happen. But what makes me sad is that these 20,000 people and families who helped us, the afghans over the year, will have trouble leaving the country. And i would urge congress on an Emergency Basis to see if there can be some legislation that gives them some safe passage while their status in america is sorted out. Ben, let me bring you into the conversation to get your perspective. Also to pick up on something that i asked in the previous hour, and that is the fact that the Afghan Government was cut out of the negotiations during the Trump Administration and thereby sapping the morale of not just the folks within the government but within the afghan forces. Would love to get your perspective on that in particular. But also on what is happening in afghanistan right now. Yeah, first of all, peter is right in the sense that this is an indictment i think of 20 years of an effort that clearly did not produce a government or afghan Security Forces with any capacity to fight back or will to fight back against the taliban once the united states withdrew, that includes the Obama Administration under which i served. So i want to be very clear about the fact that we all need to take a lesson from this. I think that there are just limits to what the united states can do to kind of Engineer Events and shape countries that are so distant from us as afghanistan is. We went in for Counterterrorism Purpose and it morphed into a Nation Building Purpose and frankly it may be that there was never a particular Strategy Or Formula that was going to work in a place that is so different from the united states. But to your specific question though, Donald Trump clearly was in this huge rush to both claim responsibility for withdrawing u. S. Forces from afghanistan and also weirdly to have some kind of Peace Deal with the taliban. And you will even remember he was talking about inviting them to Camp David for some big ceremony around the 9 11 anniversary, like that is a thing that actually happened. And the reality is efforts at diplomacy over the years were always predicated under success in the administrations on the Afghan Government being in the lead in any negotiation with the taliban. You dont negotiate your own exit with the adversary of the government that you are supporting. And that is what the Trump Administration did. They cut a deal with the taliban that excluded the Afghan Government effectively again demoralizing them and making them feel like we were leaving them holding the bag entirely. And that i think the one opportunity to try to have a diplomatic resolution that could have mitigated at least some of the damage and could have led to some more form of Unity Government and could have negotiated protection for women in some regards. That is what was absent in that socalled deal with the taliban. And peter, in the minute that we have left, what do you think of the possibility now that the government in afghanistan has collapsed, of a reemergence not just of the taliban but of Al Qaeda and potential threat to american security . Summer of 2014, weve seen this movie before. President obama changed his mind when isis was approaching baghdad and killing american journalists and put american troops back in and were already seeing american troops go back into afghanistan a lot more than were there at the first. The president has already begun a form of changing his mind with the evacuation that were undertaking. And with that, well leave it there. Peter bergen, Thank You. Jane harmon and Ben Rhodes will stay with us. And well continue to bring you latest out of afghanistan as the Taliban Enter Kabul and American Forces work to evacuate american personnel. Personnel. Perstore where weve got the best deals on refrigerators, microwaves, Gas Ranges and grills. And if youre looking for. Where weve got the best deals on refrigerators, microwaves, hey google, turn up the heat. Subway® has so much new they couldnt fit it in their last ad. Like new smashed avocado and artisan italian bread. 100 Wildcaught Tuna. Hold up 100 Wildcaught Tuna aint new subway®s always had 100 Wildcaught Tuna yall tried to sneak one in on the chuckster subway®s always had 100 Wildcaught Tuna someone once told me, that i should get used to people staring. So i did. Its okay, you can stare. When youre a twotime gold medalist, it comes with the territory. History says fine jewelry for occasions. We say forget occasions. snap fine jewelry for every day, minus the traditional markups. Back with continuing coverage of the Breaking News out of afghanistan, Nbc News now reporting that all 100 senators received a virtual briefing are receiving a virtual briefing this morning on the deteriorating situation as did President Biden at Camp David. I want to bring back in our panel, Ben Rhodes and author of After The Fall and former representative of california Jane Harmon, author of insanity defense. Thank you both for coming back. I want to continue part of the conversation that we were having in the last block in terms of the afghan forces melting away. Have a listen to what Richard Engel had to say about everyone being surprised by how quickly things changed on the ground. Have a listen. It is not that it is happening as much as how fast it is happening. Would you agree . Reporter no. Everyone keeps saying that. Oh, my god, were shocked at how fast. Im not shocked at all. Last time i was here, i was looking at the calendar because thousand with covid and travel, when you have to come back, how long you have to isolate. Covid makes you plan ahead a little bit on traveling. And i thought kabul would fall right around now. That was just a Gut Instinct and i think a lot of people that i spoke to believed that. Last time i was here, i spoke to Afghan Government officials, Afghan Military officials. It was wellknown that the Security Services were collapsing a month, two months ago, three months ago go. So this feigned surprise, or maybe genuine surprise, but it was quite clear that it would come to this when you started to see the taliban Take Territory without having to fight months ago. So no, im not at all surprised by the speed. Once you have enough momentum and have enough weapons, nobody is going to stand Up To you and nobody did. So ben, if Richard Wasnt surprised, why were american officials surprised by the speed . Here is why i think so. Because often you look at things like what are the numbers of afghan Security Forces, what hardware do they have. They had better armaments than the taliban, they have an Air Force that the taliban doesnt have. And you are really looking at sheets of paper. What that doesnt show is what is the sense of momentum in the country, where is the morale. Clearly what has happened the last few months is once there was a creeping sense inside of afghanistan that the momentum was with the taliban, that the afghan Security Force which is not only relied on the u. S. Military but also a lot of private contractors who decided to leave when the u. S. Military left, once there was a sense that the momentum was on the talibans side, i think you had a collective decision that is not an irrational decision that they werent going to fight, just to prolong what was seeming to them to be an inevitable taliban victory. So again, i think sometimes officials can look too hard at the facts and figures on the page. These are often decisions on the ground. And it is a very distant place than washington, d. C. And congresswoman, Congresswoman Liz Cheney was on one of the Sunday Shows this morning. Lets have a listen to what she had to say about what is happening in afghanistan in terms of who should be blamed for this. Look, i think absolutely President Biden Bears Responsibility to making this decision. But there is no question that president trumps administration, secretary pompeo, they also bared significant responsibility for this. They walked down this path of legitimizing the taliban, of perpetuating the fantasy, telling the american people that the taliban were a partner for peace. Secretary pompeo said that the taliban would renounce Al Qaeda. None of that has happened. Congresswoman, your reaction to that. The Blame Game starts now and were not even out of the country. I remember because i was there in 2001 on 9 11 as a senior member of Congress And Cohead of a Terrorism Subcommittee that we were very unprepared for that. Then almost on unanimous Basis Congress authorized the mission to go into afghanistan. And that mission was to degrade, Hopefully Incapacitate the Al Qaeda folks who had attacked us. And we absolutely accomplished that mission long, long ago. Andif nobody believed it then once we took out of Osama Bin Laden hiding In Plain Sight on pakistan, we could have declared The End of this Military Mission then. I think ben would probably agree with me. But here we are years later. And before we just blame the Trump Administration and maybe the biden administration, lets talk about congress. Congress has had years and years to amend that authorization to use Military Force which is very constrained into something different and to have a national debate on whether we should be there. I mentioned earlier that the polls show overwhelming support for ending the mission. I think what is crucial is stop pointing fingers, work together to get Americans Out of there and to also take care of the 20,000 including families who helped us all these years. We can point fingers later, but we must learn lessons now. And again, i think that it is not the policy that was wrong, i think the Contingency Planning was inadequate and Richard Engel is right that we should have predicted that this would happen. And finally, this is not an intelligence failure, this is a planning failure. Intelligence community according to people i know at the highest levels in congress were saying right things for months and months. The planning was inadequate. Ben and jane, Thank You both very much. Night is falling on the Capital City of afghanistan kabul there, 8 1 2 hours ahead, which means that it is coming up on 8 00 p. M. There In Kabul. More on this right after the break. Ht after the break. Verizon launched the first 5g Network and now we want to be the first to give everyone the joy of 5g, by giving every customer a new 5g phone. Old customers. New customers new 5g Phones when you trade in your old ones. Upgrade your phone. Upgrade your network. 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Thats why we created low Cash Mode, the financial watch out that gives you the options and extra time needed to help you avoid an overdraft fee. Its one way were making a difference. Low Cash Mode on virtual wallet from pnc bank. Alice loves the scent of gain so much, low Cash Mode on she wished there was a way to make it last longer. Say hello to your Fairy Godmother Alice and longlasting Gain Scent beads. Part of the irresistible Scent Collection from gain we are back with our Rolling Coverage of the situation this afghanistan. The taliban are saying that they have ordered their fighters to enter the Capital City of kabul. Joining me now, Matthew Akins on journalist based out of kabul. I just want to read to the Audience Part of the statement that the taliban Put Out. And the key point is this, kabul residents should not fear the presence of the taliban fighters in our forces, they will enter peacefully without troubling anyone. You are there on the ground. Tell us what youve seen and what the situation is like there. Well, it was an extraordinary day, rumor began to spread that the taliban had entered the city. I immediately went outside and people were panicking, running through The Street, traffic jammed up. And that actually turned out to be a false rumor. The taliban were on the outskirts but they didnt enter in force. But over the course of the day, you essentialry had the government forces melt away. I was out in The Streets talking to police, none wanted to die for what was clealy a lost cause. So they were leaving behind their weapons and going home to find Loved Ones. Later in the day you began to find taliban fighters in some cases sitting with the soldiers at checkpoints, and they had basically come and soldiers had surrendered to them. Police had surrendered to them. On the outskirts of the city this afternoon, there were groups of taliban fighters leaving the city. They were having captured weaponry and crowds of locals on the sides of The Street cheering them, little children going after the vehicles. It was just an astonishing sight. Ive been asking this question of just about every Guest Today about the surprise of the afghan forces just as you said, you described, melted away, just folded. Laid down their weapons. Being there In Kabul, were you as surprised as i was or as a lot of americans are by how by this melting away of the afghan forces in the face of the taliban . Well, today i wasnt that surprised because it was off just that the war was all but lost so why would people want to fight and die. But the speed at which this happened, i mean it was nine days ago they captured their first provincial capital on august 6. And so the speed has just been astonishing and im sure it is astonishing to the taliban as well. Nobody predicted the weaknesses of the afghan forces, although it had been obvious a number of years. And so matthew, just personally speaking, what is on the horizon, how concerned are you for yourself, your safety, safety of your friends and Loved Ones who might be there . Well of course everyone is very concerned, fact of the matter is that so far it has been mostly peaceful and taliban have again fairly peacefully taken over cities like Herat And Kandahar. There have definitely been reason to worry, but the events that have happened in Herat And Kandahar have made me less worried actually about what would happen In Kabul. Tonight there is really no Security Forces in the City And Taliban still havent really entered. They announced that, but i dont know what it means. We drove home tonight and The Streets were empty of anyone who might be taking scare of security. So i think there is a fear of looting and crime tonight definitely. And it is 8 05 p. M. Where you are. Matthew akins, Thank You very much for coming to the program today. Joining me now, senior white House Reporter shannon petty. Pretty incredible to get that on the ground personal report from someone there In Kabul. There at the White House, i understand the president has been briefed. Senate has been briefed. House has been briefed. What can you tell us about the latest at the White House from the administration . Reporter we dont have any expectations to hear from the president at all today. He did Put Out a lengthy Statement Yesterday that was outlining some of the steps the administration is taking as far as sending in additional troops, trying to make sure there is intelligence operations on the ground, talking about speeding up the Visa Applications. But the president is not having send thoughts about this strategy and that the White House despite what were hearing is maintaining the course. We heard from the Secretary Of State out today talking about how there is no longer a u. S. National Security Interest in having a Military Presence in afghanistan. And while the u. S. Talks about diplomatic efforts, however much of a long shot, providing aid to afghanistan even though it is unclear how that would happen if under a taliban ruled country, the military option remains off the table outside of trying to get these additional personnel out through that military support. So that is what we continue to hear from the president. The president is at Camp David, this was a week he was expected to be on vacation, august traditionally a time when president s get out of town. Obviously not having a fullfledged vacation though because of the developments this week. And he was briefed and will continue to be briefed on the situation. Shannon pettypiece coming to us there from the North Lawn of the White House, Thank You very much. To the audience, stay with us as we continue to talk more about afghanistan after the break. Hi, im debra. Im from colorado. 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David road, from new yorker. Com who was kidnapped by the taliban in 2008. And also Senior Fellow of the Council On Foreign Relations and author of the daughters of kobani. Thank you both for being here. David, one thing that struck me in the interview that i did in the last block with Matthew Akins who is there In Kabul is how he said that so far he feels safe. Am i wrong to think that or am i right to pray that his assessment bears out . You are absolutely right to pray and im praying as well. As you mentioned, i spent seven months in taliban captivity and what i saw is young men being brainwashed to become suicide bombers, women werent allowed to leave their homes. And you know, brutal punishments to people who taliban decided were breaking the law. So im very worried about what will happen. And i want to briefly say that the afghan journalist who was kidnapped with me who saved my life, we escaped because of his bravery, he is now a u. S. Citizen but his wife and eight of his children are trapped In Kabul right now. The taliban are patrolling The Street outside of his home. His neighbors know he helped me escape from captivity and i dont know what to tell him because they are terrified that neighbor will identify his family In Kabul and the taliban will kill his family because he helped me. David, have you heard from your friend . Yeah, ive been talking to him all morning. He is talking on one phone to his wife and children and to me on the other phone. Im been imploring State Department officials for months to bring his family here. He is a united States Citizen and he has a legal right to bring his family here. But there are Tens Of Thousands of afghans, some who are citizens, now trapped. And we have a moral obligation to bring them to the united states. And i havent seen the biden administration do that and im at shamed of how the u. S. Government is conducting itself at this point. Gail, youve written extensively about life under taliban rule. For folks who are watching who might not have any idea what that is possibly like, tell us. There are two worlds, a world in which women and girls live in in which leaving the house is prohibited, in which going to on school you face extreme challenges if there are any schools open. And then there is a rule for foreigners. In the first book i wrote, it was about a teenage girl whose business supported her family under the taliban. There were international officials who told me that they preferred dealing with the taliban because they would make a deal and they could keep security. The farther you were from power, the more unlivable it was. And girls who dreamed of becoming doctors and teachers and engineers, some of whom im talking to right this very moment who are asking me like david what they should do, i do not have an answer for. And i think the immediate question is how do we protect those people who have supported really the nato, ugs u. S. And international community effort. And there are many seeking space. They are trying to figure out what their way is forward. And i think that is the next order of business. How do we help and create a space to get out those who really worked very hard to be great partners in security and stability. Just one story, there is a young woman i was talking to who told me she moved houses last night because she heard stories that they were going door by door and taking girls, taking women. And i dont have a good answer for her. The people youve been talking to, do they and weve heard i cant remember who, which one of our reporters said this, but people they were talking to feeling very angry and abandoned. Is that the same are you hearing the same sentiments . No one is thinking about politics, they are thinking about survival. They are asking me how to make sure that they dont get taken. There is a Video Someone sent me of a dad with his head in his hands shaking his head because they took his 14yearold Daughter and he has no idea where she is. That is all anyone is thinking about. So in terms of actionable things, and i note biden administration obviously would would never want this kind of a humanitarian calamity, it is just how do you get people who have really been steadfast allies to safety and security. David, in the time that we have left, Id Love to get your reaction to things that gail said, but also your reaction to i read part of the statement that came out from the taliban where part of it says kabul residents should not fear the presence of the taliban fighters and our forces will enter kabul peacefully without troubling anyone. Also they say before that to avoid looting and chaos, they have ordered forces to enter the city and provide protection to all public and government properties. This sounds like a very benign statement but we shouldnt be fooled. Dont be fooled by the statement. This statement was made because there are thousand of american troops still In Kabul. We can save afghans. Those american troops must stay until there is time for an orderly evacuation of the young women that gail talked about, my friends family, you know, the u. S. Must not cut and run. Well never have applying anywhere around the world if we simply get our people out of our embassy and abandon everyone else. Im very afraid that that is what will happen and im disappointed that President Biden is not appearing this public today. He needs to lead and carry out a safe evacuation in the next several days or weeks if necessary. Im sure you saw the president s lengthy statement from yesterday where he said he is not changing his mind. And you know, when you look at the latest public opinion polling, a majority of the american people support what is happening. So how likely is it do you think that the administration will change its mind, that the president is going to change his mind . We can withdraw. It is fine. We should you know, we can withdraw. But we should do it not in this chaotic poorly planned way. We removed 100,000 people from South Vietnam when saigon fell. So far the administration have evacuated 700. And 20,000 worked there. This does not have to be rushed or chaotic. It is shameful if we believe this man afghans behind. We can withdraw, but it doesnt have to be done this way. David, gail, Thank You both very much for coming to the program today. And dont go anywhere, our coverage out of afghanistan continues next. S next this past year has felt like a long, long norwegian winter. But eventually, with spring comes rebirth. Everything begins anew. And many of us realize a fundamental human need to connect with other likeminded people. Welcome back to the world. Viking. Exploring the world in comfort. Once again. 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While no cases of pml were reported in rms clinical trials, it could happen. Tell your doctor if you had or plan to have vaccines, or if you are or plan to become pregnant. Kesimpta may cause a decrease in some types of antibodies. The most common Side Effects are upper respiratory tract infection, headache, and injection reactions. Ready for an Athome Treatment with dramatic results . Its time to ask your doctor about kesimpta. Welcome back to our continuing Rolling Coverage of the Breaking News out of afghanistan. Its a country with a long, violent history of military occupation. And factional strife stretching back more than 2,000 years. Raising new questions about how historians will look back at the events of today. Joining me now is ty sigily, Chamberlain Fellow and author of robert e. Lee and me, and Professor Emeritus at west point. Great city you this morning. I would love to get your view of whats happened from a former Military Person of whats happening in afghanistan, the idea that kabul is now in the hands of the taliban when everyone, military people, were saying it wouldnt be for another 90 days or so. Yes, jonathan. Thank you for having me. This is a catastrophe. It really is. As a historian, i think about historical analogies because we humans want to relate it to our past. But analogies are always fraught. As im thinking about this, im thinking about the long History Of Afghanistan and thinking about when other countries were there. So for instance, the british fought two years there and left in 1880. But theres a huge difference in that they left a stable government. It was something that they were there for really important reasons, because of their role in india, and when they left, they left after a Battlefield Victory and a stable government. The soviets went in in 1979. When they went in, it was also something they had been there for decade previously. When they left in 1989, they actually left a stable government. They planned for four years. And the reason the afghanis fell after two years was because the sovieted folds themselves. I see the great difference between the way were leaving and the way the soviets left and the way the british left. In this case, very different circumstances compared to how quickly the taliban has taken over, but the taliban are different than the mujahadin. Theyre more ruthless, more effective, and theyre the worst enemy for the rest of the afghan people to deal with. Ty, a lot of, talk about historical comparisons and analogies, i have been hearing this is saigon 1975 all over again. Do you see it that way . Well, i see a lot of differences between in how much we had there, how many forces we had, and i see differences in the geography and the people, but there is one similarity, and that is that the political will of the american people. And that political will is tested after two decades. How could it go for a third decade . I just think that the american people just werent ready to fight there for another decade. Its going to be a catastrophe because of that. We americans can be great allies. I think about germany, south korea, kosovo, we have been wonderful allies. There have been times when its far from our borders when the american people lose the political will to keep forces there, whether its iraq, vietnam, or afghanistan, and we make lousy allies and leave horrific messes. On that point, then, how damaging is something like this to americas reputation around the world, but also our reputation with folks who view us as allies . Can our word be trusted, is basically the question going forward. I think there are a couple things this hurts. We cant forget the veterans who served in afghanistan in the united states, because theyre going through a really rough time right now. My heart ges out to every one of them who served the nation and now, theyre going to look back and say what exactly did we do this for. We saw the tremendous problems that was in vietnam. As for our allies, i dont think this is going to be that great a surprise. We have done this before repeatedly. This is something about the united states that we get in all over the world, and remember, were a global power. We have a global empire stretched all over the world. Because of that, were not going to stay in every place forever. So is it going to hurt us . Yes. Is it going to hurt us over the long term . Were still the greatest superpower in the world. We still control the World Economy in a way that no other country does because of the strength of the dollar. We are an indispensable nation in so many ways but it is going to hurt when they look at that and see the massive suffering thats going to occur in afghanistan because the taliban are a terrible, terrible group that is going to cause unimaginable suffering in that country. And because of our precipitous withdrawal, its going to be even worse. Real quickly, i think in the last segment, one of the guests said that the president should change his mind. Should the president change his mind . You know, i think he were already withdrawing from there. I dont think were going to stop a withdrawal. What we can do, and i think theyre sending trooped from the 82nd airborne and other units to help make it a withdrawal that is more orderly, that provides us the ability to get people out. Listen, its a landlocked country. Theres no way refugees can get out without The Americans. We should make it the ones who want to get out, we can support that. Those immigrant communities will thrive just like the vietnamese and rwandans and bosnian communities have thrived. Please help us get more refugees out. Thank you very much for coming to the Sunday Show on this momentous, historic day. Night is falling on kabul, the capital of afghanistan. Its 8 30 p. M. In the evening there. In afghanistan. An incredible day for that country, for the region, for the united states, and for the biden administration. That is our show for today. Thanks for watching. Ill be back next sunday at 10 00 a. M. Eastern. For now, Lindsey Reiser picks up our continued coverage right now. Good day, everybody, from Msnbc World headquarters in new york. Its high noon in the east, 9 00 out west. Welcome to alex witt reports. Im Lindsey Reiser. A frantic and historic day in afghanistan. The imminent fall of kabul with taliban fighters now inside the Capital City. The day began with gunshots. The taliban announcing their arrival within city limits. Heres a part from Stewart Ramsey at that very moment. I hear a lot of shouting coming down the road behind me. In fact, it is i think its a procession of the taliban. Yes, it is. Theres the white flag. And theyre coming down The Street just next