Colleagues voting to advance the deal, he will continue to try to slow walk it. Seems because he wants to. On the Senate Floor last Night Hagerty said no need to speed up consideration of this package. The countrys deteriorating roads, bridges and pipes on the other hand might beg to differ with him. One good reason to get it done and thats the senates scheduled recess is set to begin in 24 hours. However, Majority Leader Chuck schumer said hell keep the lawmakers in session as long as it takes to get this bill passed. We can get this done the easy way or the hard way. Its in either case the senate will stay in session until i finish my work. Up to my republican colleagues how long it takes. New details of the failed Coup Attempt continue to unfold. Now one of the former officials that he repeatedly tried to pressure undermine the election and overturn the results is reportedly telling investigators how far the Ex President and his cronies were willing to go to stay in power New York Times reports that the former acting Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen and its just one detail in a new report by Pulitzer Prize winning reporter new revelations that you will not want to miss. Joining us you now a cohost of the npr politics podcast. Also former Illinois Republican Congressman Joe Walsh. Hes the chairman of the bravery project, a former 2020 republican president ial candidate and the author of F Silence he spells out the whole word. Thanks to both of you for joining us. The senate bill, the Infrastructure Bill passed a procedural hurdle Last Night to end debate. But that doesnt mean its done. Thats right. That does not mean its done. As you were saying, you know, there in the intro. Part of the hiccup there are a few republicans, specifically a senator from tennessee who has been trying to slow this process down. And really my Understanding Hesitation from some republicans is that they do not want president Bidens Agenda entirely to go through. Its been very clear from democrats, both In The House and the senate as schumer himself has said this that once they wrap up this infrastructure vote, he intends to very quickly move on to the 3. 5 trillion separate package that will be passed likely only by democrats and republicans. I should say Joe Walsh, you will remember in the last administration, the Trump Administration we had all sorts of Infrastructure Weaks and they started and got derailed generally by trump himself because he got off message within hours of launching an Infrastructure Week at the White House that had trucks and things like that. Now trump is actually out there commenting on this Infrastructure Bill and encouraging republican senators not to support it. Its actually a fairly bipartisan bill, but trumps campaigning against it. Why . Ali, hes making a big mistake. Even most republican voters want roads, bridges and Rail Reformed and maintained and refurbished and all of that. They want this Infrastructure Bill, even most republican voters. Trump is making a big mistake coming out against it. He simply doesnt want to give biden a victory. Period. Its all political. There are republicans in congress who will oppose this only because they dont want Joe Biden to have a victory. You said it, ali. Trump talked about infrastructure for four years and this is one of the easiest things for him to do but hes so incompetent he couldnt do it. Now, ill tell you, republicans running for office out there are going to oppose this because thats where the base is. But for most republican senators, no matter what trump says, this is a safe vote. Asma, the issue here is that you bring up the point, joe brings up the point, it shouldnt be partisan, people want roads and bridges fixed. A lot of Progressive Democrats want the other bigger bill. The partisan Budget Reconciliation Bill that has bigger things they call Human Infrastructure. A lot of moderates dont want to prioritize that and a lot of republicans are not interested in that bill whatsoever. Give me a sense, asma, of the inner play between this bill and coming to conclusion and that other bill. Yeah, i mean i think that other bill and its looming possibility is precisely tied to the delay that were seeing from some republicans. Senator schumer has made it very clear that he does not want to leave until there is a final vote here on infrastructure and we get moving on the other 3. 5 trillion larger, you know, Education Child Care package. I will say the delay were seeing from some republicans is very much tied to that. What were seeing In The House is a completely different story. The house has said that they want to see these things intimately connected because there are progressive voices In The House who are very resistant to the current infrastructure package. They dont think it is large enough. They wanted something significantly larger. These two bills are intimately connected. I dont see a future in which one is passed and not the other. Joe, a tweet of yours caught my attention the other day. Tucker carlson and poses as a democracy but has since become less than that. You tweeted. I hear from Gop Base voters every day, Tucker Carlson making the place for Autocracy Over Democracy and while you and i are disgusted by this, the Gop Base isnt. I truly want to believe youre not right about that, but you speak to more republicans on a daily basis than i do. Ali, specifically i speak to Hundreds And Thousands of Gop Base voters. The most committed energetic voters every day. They had no problem with Donald Trump acting like a strong man for four years. Most of the country, when you really think about what Tucker Carlson did this week, he was over in hungary bashing our democracy for an autocrat. That disgusts You And Me but from hearing gop voters, theyre perfectly fine with it. Ali, i think a lot of people dont realize the scary point were at. The average republican Base Voter no longer believes democracy can give them the things they want. So they want a strong Man And Autocrat to deliver. They love a Tucker Carlson or Donald Trump using the force of government, if they have to, to deliver things to them. They no longer believe in democracy. Ive always enjoyed Policy Disagreements and arguments with conservatives like you. I didnt ever think that these things would turn into a discussion about whether we like democracy or autocracy. Asma political correspondent for Npr And Cohost of the npr podcast. Joining me now is democratic Congress Jamaal Bowman of new york. Hes the Vice Chair of the Education And Labor committee and also on the science, Space And Technology committees. Congressman, good to see you, again. Thank you for joining us this morning. Good to be here, velshi. Thank you for having me. Lets talk about the Infrastructure Bill. Looks like it is coming to its conclusion. A number of Progressive Democrats said dont move too fast if youre not moving on the other bill simultaneously. It doesnt look like the bigger bill. The bigger bill that is a concern to a lot of progressives that has the Human Infrastructure if we want to describe it as that. Doesnt seem its moving as quickly. People are confident it will get done, but this one looks like it will get done first. What are your takes on that . Well, were hoping that the Reconciliation Bill, the Reconciliation Bill with more infrastructure happens right after this sort of hard Infrastructure Bill is done. Listen, people cannot get back to work if they do not have child care. Its about time, way past time we increase ssi benefits which will benefit 8 Million people, including One Million children. We know we have to be as green as possible and completely end our dependency on Fossil Fuels where there is a hard Infracentericture Bill or the soft infrastructure. I dont want to call the Reconciliation Bill softer than infrastructure because some quote Unquote Harder Things in it. We are really pushing to finally retrofit our school buildings. Many are 50, 60, 70, 100 years old. As we talk about infrastructure, were talking about the human and physical and roads, tunnels and bridges and were also public Housing And School buildings which serve 100 of americas children. Let me ask you about, theres a moderate In The House who are asking Nancy Pelosi to keep this Infrastructure Bill as a standalone vote. This once in a Century Investment deserves its consideration without regard to legislation according to a letter that was obtained by the hill. Is this just the sausage being made. Should we care that some people want it as a standalone bill and the other one comes and it will all get done or do you think this is an actual issue that some moderates say lets deal with this one and not as much of a priority as the bigger bill youre interested in. We should care because if the moderates dont support the Reconciliation Bill it doesnt move forward. We need to go as big as possible in this moment. I agree with them. This is a once in a Generation Investment in the american infrastructure. About to release a new report in the coming days. That report, from what im hearing, is going to be more scary than we even thought when it comes to climate change. We already see people dying of heat exhaustion. Its happening not just here but all over the world. This is the moment, if were going to pause. Lets Pause And Figure out how to go bigger in terms of climate and in terms of racial justice and the other areas we need to focus on. This is a whole government approach, all hands on deck, identify the problem. Lets figure out what the solutions will be and one last point, this is an investment in the american economy and an investment in the american people. When you invest in child care, when you invest in education, when you invest in housing and healthcare, you make it back seven times more on the back end five to ten years from now all progressive economists understand this. Jamaal bowman, thanks for joining us. We are following Breaking News out of kabul in afghanistan where the taliban has reportedly overrun the entire city after months of forceful pressure. Afghan forces are still in control of a Military Base near the Kunduz City airport. But they made their way to the center of the city and have taken over government compounds there. The latest of several invasions in the area by the taliban this weekend. They surround several cities. So when you hear about cities in afghanistan that are still under government control, it is important, richard engel, our chief Foreign Correspondent reminds us, that many of those cities are surrounded by the taliban and as soon as they are able to, they are prepared to overrun those cities. Well continue to bring you updates on this as we get them. Kunduz city in afghanistan that has been taken over by the taliban. Ill be joined by Senator Ben Ray lujan of new Jersey And Dana nessel as she continues her battle for a Cyberninja Style Sham audit. The united states is experiencing a surge of covid19 and now deaths are starting to increase. It does not have to be this way. Ill explain after this. 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Were now at a new stage of the pandemic. One that i really didnt think wed reach in america. Not the variants that surprise me, thats to be expected. The resistance to the free lifesaving vaccine. Right now just over 50 of americans are fully vaccinated and unlike in most of the world, we have no remaining issues with people not being able to get the vaccine like we did in the beginning of the year. Anyone in america who remains unvaccinated now is so by choice. And thats a problem. Its not a difference of opinion thing. Its a public Health Emergency Thing and it needs to end. Scientists, doctors, front line workers, Community Activists and federal and state officials have all campaigned for getting the vaccine. Its time for americas businesses to step in and many of them already have. You see businesses are in a unique position. They can mandate masks and vaccinations in a way the federal government has been hesitant to do. They can hold unvaccinated people responsible. Companies ranging from Morgan Stanley that employees get vaccinated before they return to the office. Some Restaurant Owners are requiring proof of vaccination and major gyms will start mandating Vaccine Proof in september. If you want to come into my store, eat at my theater, you have to be vaccinated. Every day more businesses are realizing that they may hold the key to ending the pandemic in america. Before everyone gets all constitution on me im big on the first amendment and this is not that. Not the same discussion of a baker refusing to bake a cake you have your right to your speech but you Cant Work at or patronize at some businesses if you dont get a jab or two because this is about a live deadly virus that unvaccinated people can spread to those of us who chose to do the right thing. And to children who are too young to get the vaccine. Workers who choose to remain unvaccinated threaten the Health And Livelihood of others. The constitution does not give you the right to threaten the safety of others. Youll recall i traveled this country throughout the pandemic and i spoke to people about their concerns about the vaccines and i favor real and ongoing discussions with people so that they understand how to balance the risks of the cure against the risks of the disease. Some vaccine hesitant people are willing to have that discussion. But others, the antivaxers have fallen prey to Facebook Nonsense and the time to accommodate that unreasonable conspiracy theirrists and antiscience and antivaxers has passed. At this Point America may not be able to get back to business without help from americas businesses. Ill show my support and spending my money with businesses large and small that take a stand to make sure americans get vaccinated. Still fresh unstopables inwash Scent Booster Downy unstopables its velveeta Shells Cheese versus the other guys. Clearly, velveeta melts creamier. With relapsing forms of ms. 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Hey lily, i need a new Wireless Plan for my business, but all my employees need something different. Oh, we can help with that. Okay, imagine this. Your mover, rob, hes on the scene and needs a plan with a mobile hotspot. We cut to downtown, your Sales Rep Lisa has to send some files, asap so basically i can pick the right plan for each employee. Yeah i shouldve just led with that. With at t business. You can pick the best plan for each employee and only pay for the features they need. Children in louisiana are Contracting Covid at an alarming rate. Over 3,400 children have tested positive in four days. The number of children with covid in louisiana surpassed 6,000 as deaths continue to increase nationwide. Last Friday 630 New deaths that day alone. Less than a month ago, we were seeing numbers in the low hundreds. Meanwhile in Texas Governor Greg abbott is banning masks and vaccine mandates in his state as well as promising no more governmentimposed shutdowns despite sky rocketing case numbers. Some communities are Fighting Back by asking for their own Mask And Vaccine updates and residents of austin were sent a Text Alert as a stark reminder of the Health Threat right now in texas. The alert read, the Covid19 Situation in texas is dire. Health care faciliies are open but resources are limited due to a surge in cases. Joining me now is Steve Adler, the mayor of austin, texas. Good to see you, again. I truly didnt think you and i would be talking again about covid. But in the last year, were continuing to have the same problem in texas except it used to be about masks and social Distancing And Shut downs and now were having the conversations about vaccines again. Youre absolutely right. Were back here again. But the difference is a year ago the enemy was the virus and this time the enemy is the Status Quo and the disinformation and the inability for us to take care of ourselves. What do you do about it . Because i keep talking to texas officials who are saying in localities like yours, i can do what i can do to try to mitigate the spread of covid. I can do what i can do to encourage people to do the right thing, except im fighting the governor whos saying i cant do those things. Is that even legal . Well, you know, we think that the local communities have the ability to be able to assert that local Liberty And Freedom interest to protect themselves. Weve been in court twice and at the District Court Level and hasnt gotten the final decision yet from the Supreme Court. But i think that local communities across the state in order to protect their children, in order to be able to enforce Mask Mandates in schools suggested by the cdc and the American Academy Of Pediatrics are going to start acting in order to protect their children. So, it wouldnt surprise me if this Issue Isnt forced. You tweeted an article about the houston independent School District which is recommending and proposing a Mask Mandate and theyre meeting, i believe, on monday. They are having a special Board Meeting to discuss this. What is the state of things right now . If your School District wanted to impose a Mask Mandate at school or you wanted to take certain actions, how restricted are you by the governors actions . Well, the governor said his order purports to make that decision for all of the local communities, both the independent school boards, as well as City And County governments. You saw houston independent School District act and probably be other School Districts that similarly act and i think youll see cities and counties and then local Health Authorities participate in that effort. Everybody wants to protect their children. It is outrageous that local communities are being told that they cant, they cant decide whats going to happen at their local schools. But right now theyre facing the potential of losing State Funding if they act to protect their children. Thats not right. And i think theyre going to have to start acting regardless. Let me ask you about mandates. I was just talking about mandates. You have called for all City Employees to get vaccinated. Is there any legal standing behind that or is it an encouragement . Right now its an encouragement but i think the city should move that direction. I think, you know, the piece that you just did, ali, was talking to businesses i think is dead on. And i think that local community governments need to set that example and participate in the same kind of way. Again, the governor will take the position that that is in violation of his orders and they may be in violation of his orders, i just dont think that his orders necessarily patrol. I think thats an issue we need to force. I think just like, i think a city ought to be able to decide if its faciliies and the people need to wear masks and i think local businesses and local governments should be able to decide if their employees need to get vaccinated. This is, No One has a right to put others in danger. And i think thats an issue. Schools adopt Dress Codes all the time in lots of different places. This is a communicable disease. Nobody has a right to put someone at risk because of a choice theyre making. Mayor adler, good to see you again. Mayor Steve Adler of austin, texas. Joining me now is dr. Howard co at the department of health and human services. Good to see you. Thank you for being with us again today. I want to ask you about a Louisiana Headline that weve seen more than 3,000 louisiana children have tested positive for covid19 in just four days. Can you tell me given that children under 12 cant get vaccinated, what the danger of young children Contracting Covid is. Is there a danger that they can die from it . Yes, there is, ali. And its into this pandemic response. We are at a critical crossroads. On one hand 50 of the population fully vaccinated. And on the other hand 90 Million americans who have declined vaccinations so far and the choice of some adults to decline vaccinations has endangered kids who, if theyre under 12, dont have that choice. That headline, ali, is reflecting the reality were seeing right now. Kids are vulnerable. They can get covid and can get very ill. We had 400 deaths in the country so far. They can get covid and other complications from the disease. Kids being held out of school and trying to learn online and being socially isolated. Right now we have to lean into this and give It Everything we got. Thats where the mandates with masks and vaccinations is really important right now as the mayor pointed out. The texas School District, the Texas Government has said according to Daily Beast that texas schools dont have to tell parents about covid cases in the schools. My Executive Producer made the point that school tells parents when the kid has Lice And Lice doesnt kill anybody. The Texas Thing i was just talking to Mayor Adler about is bordering on ridiculous. Public Health Crisis and public Health Emergency we need transparency for everything else. We need communication every day among all parts of society. And parents, in particular, need to be informed with what is happening with their kids. Here is a time when we have to work together and we have to communicate as effectively as possible and we have to protect kids who dont have the choice if theyre under 12. Thats the situation were seeing too often across the country right now. Dr. Koh, a lot of Government Policy Leadership positions. Assistant secretary at the department of health and overseen several public Health Official offices and dealt with the h1n1 pandemic. Is this a federal Government Thing it can do for people outside who are not employees of the federal government, should it be businesses and localities . How do we deal with people not getting vaccinated and how do you do it to peoples sensitive concerns of the vaccine . As you mentioned, ali, ive been involved in the rollout of new vaccines over many years and theres a general strategy. In the beginning people have questions about new vaccines. Thats reasonable. And thats perfectly understandable. So at the beginning you tried to Outreach And Education and present the science and the facts and offer incentives and use the least restrictive measures possible. But you come to a point sometimes where the crisis spins out of control and, ali, thats what were seeing right now. Were seeing cases ten times greater than six weeks ago in our country. Were seeing new cases matching the level that we had in our country last february. So, the Status Quo is not working and thats why were seeing these efforts with respect to requirements and mandates in multiple cities. So, that can happen at the State Level or the local level, the Supreme Court has upheld the legality of states imposing mandates that occurred over a century ago. Jacobsen versus massachusetts, my Home State and then were seeing mandates being announced at the Business Level and at universities and healthcare settings. So, all in all, if you put it together, we got to keep fighting this war and lean into it and give It Everything we got. Right now were fighting the war with one arm tied behind our back and the future of our country and the future health of our children is at stake. I wouldnt have thought that the one arm tied behind our back would have been tied by a number of governors in the united states. Dr. Koh, good to see you, as always. Harvard Kennedy School and school of Public Health and former Assistant Secretary at the department of health and human services. Rare working sunday on Capitol Hill as senators are racing to get the bipartisan bill across the finish line. Senator Ben Ray Lujan explains what to expect in the coming days. Velshi is available as a podcast. Listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. More velshi after the break. More Gain Scent plus Oxi Boost and febreze in every gain fling. 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The Dixie Fire burning in Northern California since July 13th right now the third largest wildfire in California History it is, however, the largest single fire in california they had a lot of fire complexes. It so far burned more than 447,000 acres. More than 700 square miles and its just 21 contained. As you heard at the top from the sheriff, the fire essentially destroyed the entire town of greenville. Look at the devastation. The small town turned into a Ghost Town overnight. Multiple people are unaccounted for. Well stay on top of the story and bring you further developments as we get them. Turning online, facebook has banned a team of academic researchers. Talk about sewing the seeds of a conspiracy. Well dive into that next on velshi. Way uhm whatever those are, theyre not pants. [ ding ] theres an america we build and one we explore. One thats been paved and one thats forever wild. But freedom means you dont have to choose just one adventure. You get both. 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Facebook claimed the researchers were Collecting Data without proper consent, quote, Nyu Ad Observatory Project studied political ads using unauthorized memes to collect data from facebook, end quote. The social Media Giant went on to stop unauthorized scraping and protect peoples privacy. Theyre being targeted because their research has caused attention and the social Media Giant is trying to silence them. Joining us now Roger Mcnamee of zucked and linda mcquaid. Welcome to both of you. Thank you for being with us. Roger facebook says its doing it to protect privacy and it has gotten in trouble in the past for allowing researchers to use its information. New York University says theyre being published, researchers are being published for trying to figure stuff out. What do you make of it . Facebooks argument is total nonsense. This is a classic facebook move. Theyre invoking privacy to prevent any scrutiny of their own behavior. The nyu is a volunteer program, really good disclosure. People volunteer to put a Browser Extension on their computers that simply looks to see what kind of Ads Facebook shows them. The whole purpose of this is to see whats going on in political advertising. The program has been going on for several years. Its just that right now theres a new set of things going on that theyre tracking and they announced that was happening and facebook shut them down. The problem here, ali, is that facebook is not transparent. If regulators understood how much illegal behavior was going on and how much Covid Disinformation Advertising was going on and scam medical cures, illegal drugs being promoted there and not just on facebook, on instagram and on other platforms like google and youtube. They would be appalled. This is just a classic facebook move. Barb, you know, we dont really, weve been talking about this for years about whether Social Media needs to be regulated and selfregulated and a Government Thing. People like Roger Have Altogethered that Social Media unregulated is antidemocratic. It works against the democratic society. We havent really moved anywhere in this discussion of how to regulate it. What is your take on how we should be thinking about it . Yeah, i think that, you know, the statement we see by facebook and then the statement we see by nyu are both literally true. The problem is, its that facebook gets to decide what its own rules are. If it doesnt like the Way Someone is researching it or using it, then they can say youre in violation of our terms of service. I think that regulation here is necessary in some fashion. Weve allowed these social Media Giants to regulate themselves. But, you know, one proposal has been to create even a modest regulation which would be a Safe Harbor for researchers like the Nyu Project to gather information. So i think we need to involve our thinking of Social Media companies more as utilities than some hobby we have on the internet in the same way we regulate Water Companies and electric companies. Theyve become such Essential Services that i think we all need to agree on the ground rules. Barb, i want to pay for you a conversation that i had with yesterday with the president and the Department Of Justice in some cases may have had some role in trying to get states to overturn their elections. Listen to what Congressman Murthy had to say to me. Turns out this guy Jeff Clark was writing or drafting these types of letters to all the six states that ended up going for Joe Biden and i think, you know, what we see is the beginning of the effort to overturn the election. Jeffrey clark, very senior Department Justice Official was apparently getting ready to send letters to states to tell republicans in those states who are running the election that your election has not been very good and you should fix your electors. That was as close as we got. We could have come very close to something that you are now prepared to say was a coup. This letter from Jeffrey Clark, ali, is so disturbing. The draft has now become public. Its a detailed letter explaining to states how they can go about overturning the election. This is so far out of the lane of what the Justice Department does, which is ordinarily very differential to states in their own governing decision. It sets out all the statutes that are necessary for a state to say, you know, were going to declare our election failed because of all of this fraud that has been reported. Therefore, it allows us to throw the election to our State Legislatures to decide how to select our electors. And those are states controlled by republican legislatures. The Road Map is to say let the republican legislatures choose how the six states decide the election. Those six states would be enough to throw the election to Donald Trump. It is an incredibly alarming letter and i think there needs to be accountability for it. Roger, earlier i was talking to Joe Walsh and he tweeted the other day the conversation i had tens of thousands of times in the last ten years he meaning joe said i oppose trump because he acts like hes Above The Law and uses his office to try to silence descent. I dont care if hes an authoritarian because hes fighting for me. Some americans are quite prepared to overlook stuff like this letter from Jeffrey Clark or the fact that Donald Trump tried to get the acting Attorney General to intervene in the election. So, ali, one of the core issues if we think about how Internet Platforms work in ourl authoritarian. And they have been an essential tool for trump and his minions to undermine democracy and now attempt this coup. The challenge that we face is the country for 40 years has deregulated business to the point where businesses like facebook are governments themselves. As barbara said, they make the choices thatual our lives. We have to decide as a country, do we want to be ruled by a handful of very large corporations and potentially a dictator . Or would we like to be a democracy where We The People are in charge. Dont go anywhere. We will continue this conversation after a quick break. More after this. Eak. More after this. I cant see everything she gets into, thats why i trust Tide Hygienic clean. It gets between fibers to remove visible and invisible dirt. If its got to be clean, its got to be tide. Centrum multigummies arent just great tasting. Theyre powerpacked vitamins. That help unleash your energy. Loaded with b vitamins. And other key essential nutrients. Its a tasty way to conquer your day. Try centrum multi gummies. Now with a new look. Seeing blood when you brush or floss can be a sign of early gum damage. New parodontax active Gum Repair kills Plaque Bacteria at the Gum Line to help keep the Gum Seal tight. New parodontax active Gum Repair toothpaste. If youre 55 and up, tmobile has plans built just for you. Switch now and get 2 unlimited lines and 2 free smartphones. And now get netflix on us. Its all included with 2 lines for only 70 bucks only at tmobile. Tech every customer has their own safelite story. This couple was on a camping trip. When their windshield got a chip. They drove to safelite for a sameday repair. And with their insurance, it was no cost to them. Woman really . Tech thats service you can trust. Singers safelite repair, safelite replace. What do we want for dinner . Burger. I want a sugar cookie. Wait. I want a bucket of chicken. I want. Its the easiest because its the cheesiest. Kraft. For the win win. Team usa is ready for the olympic games. And so is sharon she got Xfinity Internet and mobile together. So she has fast and reliable wifi at home. Wow . And nationwide 5g on the most reliable wireless network. Oh my gosh . Plus up to 400 Dollars off her Wireless Bill wow cheer on Team Usa with Xfinity Internet. And ask how to save up to 400 a year on your Wireless Bill when you add xfinity mobile. Get started today. The Daily Beast reports last week an Indianapolis Hospital had to turn away ambulances and divert patients during a ransomware attack. Globally we have seen a 151 increase in ransomware attacks driven by the covid19 pandemic. The u. S. Government is trying to get its head around how to stop them. The senate this week introduced bipartisan legislation that would sanctions countries that are involved in statesponsored attacks. Now Tech Companies like amazon, google, and verizon are joining initiatives to work with the u. S. Cyber Security And Infrastructure security agency. Back with me barbara and roger. I am thinking about the increasing attacks and the increase on things that feel like infrastructure that are important to our lives. We talked about the stuff the Tech Companies are not doing well. Is there some role for Tech Companies to be working with the government to try and squaush these attacks . I think thats an excellent transitional move. I think in the long run the government needs to have its own capability. The challenge that we face today is that we have essentially had an unregulated economy for the last 40 years. As a result a lot of laws that are there to protect consumers and to protect businesses are just not enforced. And we have lost the Muscle Tone for taking care of it. And so the challenge is to push back on this now and to actually get the government up to speed. It needs to do that. In the shortterm, having support from microsoft and others i think is going to help. But its only a transition. We need to rethink the Architect Systems and rethink the penalties for businesses that do not anticipate and mitigate harm before they show profits. You are talking about the businesses that allow this to happen. Barbara, some is domestic. A lot is international. Is it a matter of having right laws . Is it a matter of new laws . Is it a matter of international agreement . Because unlike traditional Warfare Or Terrorism you could sort of figure out where it was coming from. With these things we dont know whether the russian government was involved. They are sanctions the idea that are groups that will make things difficult or uncomfortable for americans. Is this a legal issue or a policy issue. I think it is both. I think one of the things that the biden administration has taken a strong stand is on with regard to its position toward russia. It has been determined that russia is behind a lot of these attacks. So making it clear to Vladimir Putin that the united states is not going to tolerate these kinds of attacks is going to push back and maybe defend forward, which is to show our capabilities a bit as a method of deterrence. I think the other thing we need to do as a government as a matter of policy is to recognize that Cyber Security is infrastructure and we need to invest in that infrastructure to protect it. We do a pretty good job at the national level, the big organizations federally, the Defense Deputy and others. But the small municipalities who run the Water Department and local Police Departments and local hospitals often dont have the resources themselves to build this kind of infrastructure. I think we need to take a national approach to how we offer and pay for that protection. Thank you for joining us. Barbara mcquaid is a former u. S. Attorney with the Eastern District of michigan, Law Professor Nbc news analyst. Roger mcnamee is a early investor in Facebook And Google and an author of Stop Hate for Profit And Thebook zuck, waking up to the fate of candidate catastrophe. The New York Times revealing New Details about the former president s use involving the department in. We have a senator to give us the low down on the bipartisan Infrastructure Bill making its way through the senate. And Dana Necessariel responds in no uncertain terms to republicans who are pushing for more partisan sham audits. Another hour of velshi begins right now. Good morning to you. It is sunday, august 8th. Every day we are learning more about how close the failed former president came to subverting the will of the people and overturning the results of the 2020 election. Now one of the former d. O. J. Officials that trump reportedly tried to pressure into helping him with this coup is telling investigators how far the expresident and his cronies were willing to go to stay in power n. A Bombshell Report this weekend, the New York Times says Jeffrey Rosen provided closed door testimony to the Senate Committee about the president s efforts to overthrow the 2020 election. Rosen did not respond to the New York Timess request for comment on his testimony but the Pulitzer Prize winning reporter who broke this story gathered details anyway. Rosens testimony is adding to the litany of new revelations about how the expresident and his enablers were attempting to tear down democracy. With each piece of new evidence we are now starting to be able to stitch together a Time Line the former president s efforts to upsend democracy. Lets look at of the right now. On december 23rd, Bill Barr resigns as Attorney General after disputing the expresident s false claims of widespread voter fraud. Barrs departure elevates the man next to him, Jeffrey Rosen to acting Attorney General. Now, on december 27, just four days later, Donald Trump called Jeffrey Rosen and top d. O. J. Officials and told them to, quote, just say the election was corrupt and leave the rest to me and republican congressmen. Leave the rest to me. According to notes taken by richard donahue, the Principle Associate Deputy Attorney General who was also in on that meeting. Now, the very next day, December 28th we learn Trump Loyalist and former head of the d. O. J. Civil Rights Division Jeffrey Clark was Drafting Letters that would have laid out a Road Map for republicans in georgia and five other states to flip the election outcome. Ten days later a violent group of the expresident s supporters attacked the capitol in a desperate attempt to prevent congress from certifying the election results. Joining me now, Katie Benner of the New York Times, hes an msnbc contributor. Katie, you have literally been piecing all this together because you have been