Ali, the Infrastructure Bills on both tracks seem to be going shockingly smoothly. The bipartisan bill is even on more solid Ground Today than it was yesterday. Mitch mcconnells support now is pretty strong where yesterday it was a vote, And it was a surprising vote. Now he has voiced his support in a very strong way. So im im surprised at how well its going. Its very complex, twotrack thing that theyre trying to do, which has never been done before. Yeah. So i got to check with norm, you know . Am i getting, you know, ahead of this, or is this really going as well as i think it is . Well, its a wise thing to do. Ive often used norm for the same reason. I look forward to the show, my friend. Have yourself a good evening. Thank you, Ali. 24 hours after the senates big bipartisan vote in favor of the biden Infrastructure Bill, the enormity of the victory for President Biden appears to be even more solid than it did with Last Night a 67 votes in favor of the bill. You judge the strength of pending legislation not by the words of its most ardent supporters but by the words of the people who could kill the legislation if they really tried to. Thats what makes the words Mitch Mcconnell said today all the more important. Mitch mcconnell entered the senate at the age of 22 as an intern for kentuckys republican senator john sherman cooper. Mitch mcconnell returned to the senate as a staffer in 1968 after law school. For his first 20 years as a senator, Mitch Mcconnell proved the general rule that former senate staffers become, if not the greatest thinkers in the senate, certainly among the most capable legislators in the senate, the most responsible legislators in the senate when And if they get elected to the senate. Mitch mcconnell was no Ones Enemy in the senate in those first 20 years. He was a conservative republican senator in the Bob Dole mold, who took governing reasonably serious. He respected senate norms. As chairman of the senate Ethics Committee in the 1990s. He recommended the expulsion of a republican Committee Chairman for sexual harassment, And he forced that republican chairman to resign from the senate. Then in 2005, Mitch Mcconnell became the republican leader of the senate, And everything changed for Mitch Mcconnell. The last fully honorable thing Mitch Mcconnell did in the senate was in 2006 when he proudly voted to reauthorize the voting Rights Act. Then with the Obama Presidency came Mitch Mcconnells vow to block barack Obamas Reelection by trying to block every single thing on president Obamas Agenda in the united States Senate. Instead of using his powers as Senate Majority Leader to tame Donald Trump, Mitch Mcconnell became trumps errAnd boy. Long before tonight, Mitch Mcconnell had become the most dangerously malevolent Senate Leader in history. He fought to preserve the Trump Presidency in two senate impeachment trials when he knew Donald Trump was guilty as charged. It has been disorienting And inexplicable for those of us who knew the responsible, professional Mitch Mcconnell of his first 20 years in the senate to watch him destroy the senate as majority leader, destroy the senate. He did that. And so none of us were ready for the apparent reappearance of the old Mitch Mcconnell, The One we used to know. And it happened Last Night when Mitch Mcconnell became one of the 17 republicans voting to proceed to consideration of the biden Infrastructure Bill. People who could not believe that Mitch Mcconnell was actually supporting the biden bipartisan Infrastructure Bill immediately pointed out that it was merely a procedural vote And it didnt mean that Mitch Mcconnell was actually going to vote for the bill in the end. But in the 21st century senate, the procedural votes have become the real votes on the legislation. It used to be common for some senators to vote to proceed to considering a bill And then, having considered the bill, vote against the bill. But Mitch Mcconnell himself destroyed that practice by making sure that all republican opponents to a bill would always vote no on any procedural vote. And so in the 21st century, voting yes on the merely procedural vote almost always means voting yes on the bill itself. And this morning, Mitch Mcconnell finally spoke about his Yes Vote Last Night And sounded very much like the old Mitch Mcconnell, who is ready to vote for this legislation And watch Joe Biden sign this bill into law. Yesterday i joined a number of my republican And democratic colleagues And voted to begin Floor Consideration of bipartisan Compromise Legislation for our nations infrastructure. Our country would benefit a whole lot from some targeted investment in the kinds of real, tangible projects that fit a commonsense definition of actual infrastructure roads, bridges, ports, waterways, airports, broadbAnd. A bipartisan compromise to responsibly finance these kinds of investments is guaranteed to be big And complex. Its guaranteed to be the kind of legislation that no member on either side of the aisle will think is perfect. But its an important basic duty of government. Im glad to see these discussions maing progress. I was happy to vote to move the senate toward what ought to be a robust bipartisan process for legislation of this magnitude. This kind of focused compromise that our colleagues have been hashing out could not contrast more sharply with the multitrillion dollars taxing And spending spree that democrats hope to ram through on a Partyline Vote later this year. So of course hes opposed to the democratsonly bill. But about this legislation, the bipartisan bill he voted yes for, he just said its guaranteed to be the kind of legislation that no member on either side of the aisle will think is perfect, but its an important basic duty of government. A version of that very sentence has been said about important legislation by all of the very best Senate Leaders. That is what Senate Leadership is supposed to sound like, And it is stunning on two levels. One, that it is coming from the worst Senate Leader i have ever seen. And, two, that it shows you how solidly on track for passage the senate bipartisan bill is tonight. A bill that many senate observers thought was falling apart earlier this week, just two days ago, three days ago. Today Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, whose complex Twotrack Strategy for infrastructure in the senate is working perfectly so far, said this. Its been my goal to pass both the bipartisan Infrastructure Bill And a Budget Resolution during this work period. Some pundits have called that a tall order. I understAnd that. But because of the vote Last Night, the senate is now moving forward with the bipartisan Infrastructure Bill, And we are on track to pass both elements of the Twotrack Strategy before we adjourn for august recess. It took some prodding And a few deadlines, but it all has worked out for the better. Once again yesterday, Donald Trump attacked the then nine republican senators who had put their names on a public announcement that they were ready to vote to proceed to the bipartisan bill. There are only nine of them who made that announcement. Yesterday Donald Trump attacked them, calling them, quote, weak, foolish, And dumb. And when the votes were counted Last Night, there were 18, 18 republicans defying Donald Trump in favor of the bill. One of those republicans, senator rounds, was absent And was unable to vote. So the recorded vote showed only 17 republican votes for the bill Last Night on the senate floor. The leader of the republican negotiating team, senator rob portman, wrote an Oped Piece in Todays Wall Street journal praising the bill, And while he was at it, he went out of his way to say this. President Trump Wasnt able to secure any legislative victories on this issue even when republicans had full control of the house And senate. That was senator Portmans Way of pointing out that a republican president whose party had control of the house And the senate And was unable to pass an Infrastructure Bill must have been weak, foolish, And dumb. Leading off our discussion tonight, our congressional historian norm ornstein. Hes an emeritus scholar. And John Heilemann, an Nbc News affairs analyst, is with us. Norm ornstein, what are you seeing when you look at this action in the senate . Am i getting carried away with my notion that this bill is so solidly on track now . Well, im glad you at least cautioned that this was the worst Senate Leader youd ever seen. Ever. Even as you praised him. Can we just hold it for a second . I did not praise him. I merely reported what he has done And what i has said, And it does fit the language used today does fit into the language of good Senate Leaders. Okay. I cant let the Word Praise be used with Mitch Mcconnell. Go ahead. Sorry. I accept that. Its like we were in a Hot Tub Time Machine And went back to the senate of old. Right. You know, mcconnell did this because politically it would have been disastrous for republicans if he had not, And all of these senators, including portman, who ignored Donald Trumps attempt to sabotage this bill, know that if they killed it, two things would happen. One is we would have this giant reconciliation Infrastructure Bill, And it would only be democrats taking credit for things that are popular across the country. And, second, it would have added to the impetus for a possible filibuster reform. But put all of that aside. This is a gigantic accomplishment. This bill is far from perfect. The fact that they took out the irs funding to go after Tax Cheats is a shonda, as we say. Its absolutely shameful that theyve cut some of the funding for Mass Transit is not great. There are other things we cant really think very highly of. But this is a solid bill thats going to do a lot on the physical infrastructure, And it sets the groundwork for the bigger one. And as we have said multiple times, if we get both of these bills through along with the american Rescue Plan And were starting to see some progress on Voting Reform that makes it possible were talking about fdr territory. John heilemann, as norm points out, that irs Funding Piece can go into the Budget Reconciliation Bill And be done by democrats only, And thats what Anders'>Bernie SAnders now And the Budget Committee And others are looking at. What was left out of here that we can patch into the democratsonly bill. And norms point about the good politics of this for the republicans who did vote for it, its such an important point. But getting the other party to see that your politics are also good politics for at least some of them does take political skill that Joe Biden And Chuck Schumer showed. Yeah. Lawrence, i think, you know, theres never anything that i ever want to disagree with that norm says, so just put me down as a big plusone on everything that he just said to begin with. But i do think, you know, there are a couple of points that always bear repeating And i feel like we come back to them frequently when we talk about legislative stuff on this program. One of them is that, you know, we have both talked about the complexity of this Twotrack Process And i remember months ago you And i comparing notes And thinking there was a 20 , 30 chance it could work because it was such an incredibly kind of complicated, trying to build these planes simultaneously while theyre taking off on the runway. I do think when the history of this is written, the fact that Joe Biden had all those years in the united States Senate is going to be an important part of that. The lockstep And, this still is not all a done deal. We all know that. Theres still a lot of complexity. Theres still the house. Theres still the progressives. Theres still the republicans who could decide to bolt later if the political calculus changes because we know mcconnell is only into every vote he takes is about whats best for his politics for Retaking Control of the senate. But in the end, you know, ive never seen a degree of coordination between a White House, a Senate Leadership And a House Leadership as tight as The One between Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, And Chuck Schumers shops. And i think again, just like the tactical question, that strategic question And the discipline of that goes all back to what Joe Biden learned about how to move complex legislation in his time in the senate. He is a Legislator President , And were beginning maybe to see just the first fruits of that fact. I think it also includes, very importantly, his eight years as Vice President And learning how much Mitch Mcconnell And those republicans had changed. Sure. And they were not the republicans he used to deal with. Lets listen to what Joe Manchin said today about the prospects of this bill. We have 68. Mike rounds could not be there, so if you count Mike Rounds in there, i think once people see the content of the legislation, it could be a lot more. Norm ornstein, Jon Tester said something like that Last Night with Ali velshi, saying he expects actually more than 68 votes when you get to actually voting on this bill. It wouldnt surprise me that were up around 80, which would be absolutely astonishing given what weve seen with the interaction between the parties in the past And of course mcconnells pledge that he would be 100 against everything Joe Biden wanted to do. We have to keep in mind that the next part of this is going to be tricky. Its not only getting this through the senate, through a house where a lot of progressives are unhappy with whats been left out. Its that kyrsten sinema, who was a major negotiator on all of this, has dashed some cold water on the ambitious 3. 5 trillion plan that is a compromise itself in the senate. Theyre going to have to make some adjustments. But when i look at this team, The One that john was talking about, even the White House team, gene sperling, louisa terrell, the liaison with congress, Pete Buttigieg And-in-glove'>Working HAnd In Glove with those senators And making the outreach to the House Progressives as well. Im very confident theyre going to pull something important together And get the votes for it. And pelosi is The One who can get all of those House Progressives to go along And theres steve risch etty, who has been doing this work for decades for democratic White Houses. The Experience Level is as good, better than weve ever seen, And the contrast with the previous administration is just a joke. Norm ornstein, John Heilemann, thank you. Really appreciate it. Coming up, the deeply disturbed republican Congressman Mo brooks now says he was wearing Body Armor when he was Cheering Insurrectionists at the Trump Rally on January 6th before the attack on the capitol. And the Justice Department says it will not defend mo brooks in congressman Eric Swalwells Lawsuit against him for what he did that day. Harvard Law Professor Laurence tribe joins us next. Follow me. realtor so, any questions . wife well take it realtor great. vo it will haunt your senses. The Heartpounding Audi Suv family. Get exceptional offers at your local audi dealer. Millions of vulnerable americans struggle to get reliable transportation to their medical appointments. Thats why i started medhaul. Citi launched the Impact Fund to invest in both women And entrepreneurs of color like me, so i can reAlize my vision And give everything ive got to my company, And my community. I got you. For the love of people. For the love of community. For the love of progress. Citi. burke deepsea driving, i see. Customer Something like that. burke well, heres Something Else with your Farmers Policy perk, new car replacement, you can get a new one. customer that is Something Else. burke get a whole lot of something with Farmers Policy perks. We are farmers. Bumpadum, bumbumbumbum republican Congressman Mo brooks of alabama has continuously denounced the investigation into the January 6th attack on the capitol, which he urged to happen. Congressman brooks has said he didnt believe the riot would turn violent. But yesterday he told a reporter that he actually was tipped off about potential violence, he says, And he also said, i was warned on monday that there might be risks associated with the next few days, meaning that week in january, January 6th. And as a consequence of those warnings, i did not go to my condo. Instead, i slept on the floor of my office. And when i gave my speech at the ellipse that was at the Trump Rally i was wearing Body Armor. Thats why i was wearing that nice little wind breaker, to Cover Up the Body Armor. And now just 24 hours after receiving a lot of comment about his wearing Body Armor on the day that the Trump Mob became so violent, mo brooks has amended, revised his remarks for wearing the Body Armor by telling a Cnn Reporter that he often wears Body Armor. His wife has wanted him to wear Body Armor because he has been threatened before. He said, you take the necessary precautions much like you might bring an umbrella when its raining. Congressman brooks is being sued by congressman eric swalwell, who has Accused Brooks of inciting violence at the capitol that day by urging the protesters to, quote, start taking down names And kicking ass, which they certainly did try to do. Congressman brooks sought to dismiss the case against him, arguing he is immune from liability under a law known as the westfall act, which protects federal officials acting within the scope of their employment. This week, the department of justice rejected that notion that Congressman Brooks was acting in his official capacity And refused to defend him in court, saying, the record indicates that brooks appearance at the January 6 rally was Campaign Activity And it is no part of the business of the united states to pick sides among cAndidates in federal elections. In addition, the complaint alleges that brooks engaged in conduct that, if proven, would plainly fall outside the scope of employment for an Officer Or Employee of the united states conspiring to prevent the lawful certification of the 2020 election And to injure members of congress And inciting the riot at the capitol. Alleged action to Attack Congress And disrupt its official functions is not conduct a member of congress is employed to perform. Joining our discussion now, laurence tribe, University Professor of constitutional Law Emeritus at Harvard Law school. He has won 35 cases in the united states supreme court. Professor tribe, thank you very much for joining us tonight. The Justice Departments decision on the brooks case, does that have any impact on how they might approach Donald Trump as a civil defendant in the same kind of lawsuit . It certainly does, lawrence. The Justice Departments brief not only said that it is no part of the job of any congressperson to Attack Congress, to incite insurrection, it pointedly said its no part of any federal Employees Job to do any of those things. That inciting an unruly, partly armed, And violent mob to kick ass And to take names And to interfere with an official function of congress is well beyond the sphere of any federal employees official duties And is therefore not immune from liability, especially under the socalled Ku Klux klan act, which is part of this lawsuit. An act passed way back in the 1860s that has two important parts. One part says that if you work with other people to interfere with the performance of the governments functions, that is, if you conspire to undo the workings of government, you are going to be liable. And the other part, very important as to Donald Trump, says that if you have the power to prevent an ongoing interference, especially a violent one with the functions of the government And do not use that power, are negligent And turn the other way, as we saw Donald Trump doing when he And his family were yukking it up And watching a Tv Screen as the riot went on, then you are liable for damages to those you injure. In this case, that would include not only people like congressman swalwell, who feared for his life, but also a number of the brave capitol police, who are also suing. So this is an important development not just for mo brooks. I dont want to underestimate his importance, but hes not the biggest fish in the pond. But its a terribly important development for the ultimate accountability of the guy who organized a lot of what went on that day And did nothing to stop it as people were being crushed, crushed almost to death in some cases. On that point that you raised, the lawsuit that involves the president doing absolutely nothing while the attack was going on, we have now an increasing body of discovery of a sort through these new books that are coming out detailing that day And what Donald Trump was doing that day. That material is now all available to the lawyers in the swalwell lawsuit. They can use that as the basis for subpoenas to people like ivanka trump, who is reported in some of the books as having gone to her father repeatedly to say, youve got to do something, And he didnt do anything. And others And the manipulations that we were trying to do. And they were specifically theres reports of Donald Trump actively refusing to do anything. All of that can be lifted out of what is now the Book Context And put in underoath depositions by the witnesses who actually participated in that as this lawsuit goes forward. Isnt that what well see in the Discovery Process . Exactly. And well certainly see this very powerful committee that Nancy Pelosi has put together that includes people like Liz Cheney And Adam Kinzinger And of Course Adam Schiff And Jamie Raskin And a number of others, a committee that is going to hear evidence directly from some of the people who were in communication with the White House at the time. Jim Jordan Cant quite remember whether he didnt talk to the president or did talk to the president during that time, but hes going to have to refresh his memory. And the Justice Department has made clear that Executive Privilege is not going to be available in many of these cases. So we are witnessing the unraveling of the coverup of the worst insurrection since the Civil War in the history of this country. This is serious, And its not going to end well for Donald Trump although, you know, hes squeezed out of all kinds of fixes before, And i wouldnt i wouldnt underestimate him. Hes a very slippery eel. Professor laurence tribe, thank you very much for joining our discussion tonight. Thank you, lawrence. Coming up, President Biden is now Working On a new legislative strategy for Voting Rights. Zerlina maxwell And John Heilemann will join our discussion next. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Do you struggle with occasional Nerve Aches in your hAnds or feet . Try Nervivenerve Relief from the worlds 1 Selling Nerve Care company. Nervive contains Alpha Lipoic Acid to relieve occasional Nerve Aches, weakness And discomfort. Try Nervivenerve Relief. All by yourself. Oh. What . Rain. Cancel And stay . Done. Go with us And get millions of felixble booking options. Expedia. It matters who you travel with. Ray loves vacations. 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What your case could be worth. We will help get you the best result possible. The Barnes Firm, Injury Attorneys call one eight hundred,est resul Eight Million with the biden Infrastructure Legislation on track in the senate, the president is turning to Voting Rights. The new york times reports that tomorrow the president will meet with Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer And house speaker Nancy Pelosi, quote, to discuss their partys faltering efforts to pass major voting Rights Legislation according to two congressional aides familiar with the plans. The meeting comes as the for the people act could be released within days. Yesterday, several senators including Senator Raphael Warnock And senator Joe Manchin met inside Senate Majority Leader schumers office, as the Washington Post reports, to hash out the details of the bill, which is expected to at least partially incorporate a framework assembled by senator Joe Manchin. Today Senator Warnock said he is encouraged by that meeting with democrats focused on getting something passed to protect Voting Rights. Passing Voting Rights, in my view, is the most important thing we can do this congress. Now, i know that there are a lot of pressing issues, but the american house is the house built by democracy. And if we dont preserve our democracy, strengthen Peoples Access to it, we will not have done our job. The texas democrats are still in washington, urging lawmakers to pass federal legislation on Voting Rights today. Some of the texas democrats tested to a house oversight subcommittee. Im here because this is the sate of democracy, And my people who i represent has a right to be able to vote unabridged, just like all of you. The manager at target has more latitude to protect their customers than an Election Judge in texas would to protect voters under this bill. This is a practical implication thats going to disenfranchise hundreds And thousAnds of votes of texans. Thats why were here. We tried to work with our counterparts, but every amendment that we presenteds with declined. Joining us now, Zerlina Maxwell And John Heilemann is back with us. Zerlina, as soon as the Infrastructure Bill seems to be firmly on track, the president is turning to Voting Rights. Well, i think that Senator Warnock is right when he says that Voting Rights is the most important thing this congress can do. And while all of these other issues are incredibly important, our access to the Ballot Box to be able to shape the policies that we would like to see as voters, thats essential. You know, you cant get anything you want if you dont have that access. And i think that, you know, what the demographics shows happening in this country, its not a coincidence, lawrence, that you sigh some of the most restrictive bills happening in states where the majorities are turning into latinx population, for example, in a state like texas, or the latinx is voting in a state like arizona. And so all of this stuff is coinciding with these demographic shifts, And demographics are not destiny in terms of democrats winning elections because they attract those voters if those voters do not have access to the Ballot Box. Those voters gave the democrats the majority in the senate. It would be a real shame for those democrats to turn around And not protect Ballot Access for those same communities. None of the Voting Rights bills that have been considered by the congress include any provisions about how the votes are counted, which is one of the new threats to Voting Rights that the new georgia law, the Texas Law had it there, And then they took it out. But theres this whole republican attempt to change what happens after votes are cast. This is part of the new negotiations that the democrats are Working On now. Lets listen to what Senator Manchin said about that. Ive told them. I said the bottom line is we should basically dedicate ourselves to a Voting Piece of legislation that truly is the Voting Rights of 1965, the John Lewis Voting Rights Act that weve been Working On, And narrow it down to basically taking care And protecting the Polling Place so people have a right to vote And protect their right to vote And make sure they have that vote And make sure its counted properly. Thats all. Its not going to be an overwhelming, overreaching bill. Are they trying to change your mind on the filibuster . No, no. Everyone understAnds. Theyve been very, very respectful of that. They know where i am. Of course Joe Manchin has said many things about the socalled filibuster rule, including being open to changing it in various ways. The key thing he talked about is how the votes are counted. That is something he is concerned about And that texas democrats are concerned about. Its something we all should be concerned about. I mean of all of these issues that are raised by these bills around the country, the questions related to what happens after the votes are cast, not access i mean those are all important issues, but weve gotten sidetracked by questions about, you know, water in lines And even questions related to voter i. D. And other things. The things that would have overturned the 2020 election would have been giving politicized bodies, giving republicancontrolled legislatures in these states, the ability to run the administration on the back end. Who controls the Counting Room . If republicans had had that kind of power, political power in georgia, in other places, you know, arizona name your state, pennsylvania, these key battleground states, Donald Trump could have been successful in steAling this election. And a lot of these laws, most of them have provisions that would make that kind of change. And i think its under the category now, lawrence, of they call it election subversion. Thats what the new category of negotiation is all about, And i think its ball game. I think republicans understAnd that if they control the Counting Rooms And the counting process, that is the way in which they can systematically undermine democracy in the most profound way. We saw it on display, the threat of it in 2020. I think if any bill that democrats take up in the senate or in the house or in congress over these coming months, if it doesnt address that issue, it misses the point. The for the people act was written last year. It was written before the election, long before we saw these new republican legislative proposals. And, zerlina, we see a report in the Atlanta Journal Constitution that georgia is already acting on that new law, And they are basically trying to pull the Votecounting Process away from Fulton County in a major democratic county. So the republican strategy seems to be, we dont care how many of you show up. Were going to try to suppress that. But if you do conquer us there And you show up, were going to be counting. And when we do the counting, youre not going to like what happens. Yeah. Its rigging the game on the front end And the back end. Its making sure that no matter what happens And no matter what wave of people show up to say, we dont want these people in office, it wont matter because you have your folks in place. Its like playing the referees. I hate the sports analogies, about you it works here, i think, in helping folks understAnd whats happening here. And i think, you know, i think republicans actually have overplayed their hAnd, And i think that the momentum is on the democratic side if the biden White House is willing to take this courageous step And be aggressive on Voting Rights. And i think that relying on the And-organizing'>Activism And Organizing of Voting Rights advocates is the wrong approach, And i think that going forward, they should say, look, those Voting Rights advocates organized And got people to show up to put us in power. And now its our job to utilize that power to protect the votes of those folks. And thats the only thing that matters in this game. Well see what happens in this meeting tomorrow. Thank you both for joining this discussion. Thanks, lawrence. Coming up, there is new Reporting Tonight in the Washington Post about the Delta Variant And covid infections among vaccinated people. Dr. Ashish jha And dr. James Hill Drith will join us next. Ourselves constantly; its important. 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The Washington Post was the first to report tonight on an internal Cdc Document that says, quote, The War has changed. The Washington Post reports the Delta Variant of the coronavirus appears to cause more severe illness than earlier variants And spreads as easily as chickenpox according to an internal federal Health Document that argues officials must acknowledge The War has changed. The post reports that the document says the Delta Variant is, quote, so contagious that it acts almost like a different novel virus, leaping from target to target more swiftly than ebola or the common cold. The data And studies cited in the document played a key role in revamped recommendations that call for everyone vaccinated or not, to wear masks indoors in public settings in certain circumstances, a federal Health Official said. The federal Health Official told the Washington Post, quote, although its rare, we believe that at an individual level, vaccinated people may spread the virus, which is why we updated our recommendation. The document cites data from an outbreak in provincetown, massachusetts, that, quote, showed that people who were vaccinated were transmitting the virus to other vaccinated people. The person said the data was deeply disconcerting And a canary in the Coal Mine for scientists who had seen the data. In arkansas, the mother of 13yearold Hiyah Morris cooper says that because of misinformation, she did not get herself or her daughter vaccinated. Her daughter tested positive for covid19 And was hospitAlized. Its very hard not knowing if shes really going to come home anymore or not. Its heartbreaking. I wish i would have made better choices for her. I just had a false sense of security that it was just like the flu. I just want people to get their kids their shots. Everybody just needs to get the shot. Its a much better route than The One were in. Joining us now, dr. Ashish jha, dean of the brown University School of public health, And dr. James hildreth, And-ceo'>President And Ceo And an infectious disease expert. Youre in tennessee, which has a very low rate. Its 39. 1 of people 18 years And older, And we are now learning tonight that even among the vaccinated, the dangers of the Delta Variant are greater than we thought. What is this going to mean for tennessee . Lawrence, thank you. Good to be with you again. I think what it means for tennessee is that we have to be more vigilant And redouble our efforts to get people vaccinated. This is not the same virus that we started with back in january of 2020. Its clearly a different virus, And i do agree that we have to be we have to have a much more concerted effort to fight this virus because it is so easily it is so easily transmitted. And, you know, as long as the Breakthrough Infections remain low, i think we can keep doing what were doing but we clearly have to be more vigilant about this virus because its clearly not the same Virus Weve been concerned with for the last year or so. Dr. Jha, this makes perfect sense, its a new variant, in effect a new attacker against us. Its like a new weapon being created during war And of course it changes the situation. And yet theres so much discussion that i have seen on television among people who take this seriously, who are kind of shocked And amazed that we might have to wear masks again for good reason just as you might have to wear gloves again this winter if your hAnds get cold. I mean, at some point this babying of the talk to americans about how to take care of themselves crosses a line of just utter ludicrousness. Lawrence, first of all, thanks for having me back as well. I mean, look, the virus keeps changing. The pAndemic has changed from last year, as dr. Hildreth said, as a different virus. If were going to deploy the same tactics no matter what the virus does, that would be really dumb. That would not get us where we want to go. The cdc has looked at the data, looked at the facts, And said this virus is behaving differently. Theres more transmission happening among vaccinated people, not a lot, but some, And said we want to make different recommendations for how people should behave. Thats exactly what we want federal agencies to do, respond to evidence And data And Change Policy when the evidence And data changes. And dr. Hildreth, this happens all over the practice of medicine. You have people recovering from Bone Fractures who, you know, go from crutches to cane, then they struggle with the And-doctor'>Cane And Doctor might say, all right, lets move back And try this. People have had experience with this kind of adjustment in medical recommendation throughout their own medical histories. But suddenly america is playing dumb And saying, wait a minute, you said i didnt need a mask a few weeks ago, how dare you say i need a mask now. I mean, how do you bear this kind of just rank ignorance thats being spewed everywhere in reaction to this . Well, lawrence, i agree with dr. Jha that the signs is not evolving, the virus is evolving. It gives me great comfort that the leaders of the country are responding to how the virus is changing. Science is not truth. Its the pursuit of truth. And the truth is as we now know it, this virus is evolving. All Rna Viruses mutate And evolve. This one is no different. Im really encouraged that our leaders are making changes, are making recommendations based on how the virus is evolving. I think thats a very important point that people need to understAnd. And dr. Jha, in cancer treatment, for example, there are setbacks. There are times when doctors think we got it, we think youre cancer free now. A year later, sometime later, the cancer is back. And those patients dont say to their doctors i am not coming back for cancer treatment, you told me my cancer was gone, i am not going to come back for cancer treatment. That is what these people are doing when they are complaining about having to put a Mask Back on. Yeah, in some ways, lawrence, we had predicted this in the sense that we knew that while a third of america is unvaccinated, a third of american adults, that were going to see things like this, were going to see more dangerous versions. Absolutely. This is not necessarily the last variant well deal with. People have to buckle in And get vaccinated. If we get 90 plus percent of americans vaccinated, we really can put this thing behind us. But until that happens, we should expect changes in the virus leading to changes in policy. Dr. Ashish jha And dr. James hildreth, thank you for being more patient in this discussion than i personally could muster. Thank you very much. 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More than 5. 6 million doses are going to south africa, the single largest shipment to date by the united states to any country. Nigeria is the most populous country in africa with more than 200 Million people. It has a Vaccination Rate right now of less than 1 . South africa has nearly 60 Million people And a Vaccination Rate of 4 . Last month President Biden announced the united states will buy And donate 500 Million doses to low And moderate income countries around the world. That is tonights last word. The 11th Hour with Brian Williams starts now. Good evening once again. Im Chris Jansing in for Brian Williams. Day 191 of the biden administration. And we begin tonight with Breaking News from the Washington Post. Critical new information about the Delta Variant of the coronavirus. The paper has obtained an internal Cdc Document which contains urgent new warnings about the virus. The post reports, quote, the Delta Variant of the coronavirus appears to cause more severe illness than earlier variants And spreads as easily as chicken pox. According to the internal federal Health Document, it also argues officials must acknowledge The War has changed. The post goes on to report, quote, it cites a combination of recently obtained, stillunpublished data from Outbreak Investigations And outside studies showing that