Support for. The more things change, rachel, the more things change. Good to see you my friend, see tomorrow. Thanks. We are tired of this. In April 2020 at the brutal start of the Covid19 Pandemic the same Month Donald Trump suggested that americans might inject bleach to beat the virus, then attorney general Bill Barr told Donald Trump that he did lose reelection because voters were tired of the chaos of the Trump Administration. Thats according to the new book, i alone can fix it by our first Guest Tonight Carol Leonnig And Philip rucker. Because chaos was always a future of the trump White House, most of us were tired of it then, were still tired of it now that hes out of office, but something has changed in the last few days for the people who never grew tired for the Die Hard Trump Lovers and conservatives. It seems like theyre trying to realize the danger of embracing the chaos and jumping off the cliff with trump. Case in point, here is one line from a wild, unhinged statement that trump sent out yesterday quote, people are refusing to take the vaccine because they dont trust the biden administration. They dont trust the election results. And quote. There was more, but that is all we will say right now, were only repeating that part because its part of a broader point that im trying to make here. Donald trump, the most influential person in the Republican Party, by far, it is still lying about the election, but now hes encouraging people to doubt the efficacy of the Coronavirus Vaccine at the same time. Are you kidding me . Trump himself got vaccinated in january. Thats not just trump chaos, this is trump this information. This is Trump Disinformation that could kill. Some conservatives finally seem to be growing tired of it. Today trumps longtime Friend Tom Brady mock trump at the White House for his election lies. Not a lot of people think that we couldve won, and i think 40 of people still dont think we won. Do you understand that, Mister President . I understand that. Fox is Sean Hannity who usually helps Trump Spread lies actually said this on his program last night. Please take covid seriously. I cant say it enough. Enough people have died, we dont need any more deaths. Research like crazy, talk to your doctor, your doctors, medical professionals, based on your unique medical history, your current medical condition and you and your doctor make a very important decision for your own safety. Take it seriously. You also have a right to medical privacy, Doctor Patient Confidentiality is also important, and it absolutely makes sense for many americans to get vaccinated. I believe in science, i believe in the science in vaccination. Trump allies Steve Scalise the number two republican Trust Covid vaccines to. After months of dodging questions from reporters about whether or not he would get vaccinated, scalise got his first dose of the Pfizer Vaccine on sunday calling its safe and effective. Thats nice, congratulations on that. These about faces are important, conservative voices have influence and could change the hearts and minds of the hesitant. But lets not give them too much credit. Hannity and scalise could have and should have spoken out months ago, it shameful that it took this long to combat trumps lies. Their voices couldve made a big difference with republicans who doubted the seriousness of covid, or who were hesitant to get vaccinated. A Kaiser Family Foundation poll shows that 23 of republicans will definitely not get vaccinated. That a Yahoo Poll of vaccinated americans find that 37 believe that Covid Vaccine pose a greater risk than the actual virus to your health. Americans are continuing to get covid, theyre continuing to die from covid, but now as the Cdc Director said, its a pandemic of the unvaccinated. More than nine out of ten americans who died from covid in the united states in june, were unvaccinated according to doctor fauci. So what is it gonna be . Trump lies that could kill, or breaking free and telling the truth . Some staunch Trump Allies seem to be breaking free, seeming to say we are tired of people dying because of trumps lies. Now no more need follow suit, no need to shout from the ruth tops. It may be the only way to save lives at this point. Leading off our discussion are coauthors of the new book i alone can fix said Donald J trumps catastrophic last years, Carol Leonnig and Philip Rucker of the washington post. Congratulations to the to view on a remarkable book. Let me start with you carol, there is an alternate universe in which Donald Trump could have and should have taken credit for some fascinating things, including a vaccine that was developed in part in some cases because of help but the u. S. Government. He didnt have to be the guy whos at the head of a group of people who are vaccine skeptics. What happened, what happened with trump and saying i can do this, i can lead us, i alone can fix this into the trump that fixed nothing . He is alternate reality, The One hes living in, The One he talked about at length with phil and with me when we visited him and interviewed him at maralago has only gotten more hardened overtime. Anything that doesnt help him has to be false. Its interesting too because it is particularly perverse to have someone not taking credit for the vaccine they pressured everyone to deliver, which Donald Trump did, he deserve some credit for that. But its also perverse now to think the distrust of the election among his supporters, which he sewed, and stoked, for months, we to encouraging people to distrust a vaccine that could save their lives. What we have found in our reporting about Donald Trumps final catastrophic year for our new book is that many many people who were giving him expert advice, at the time, insiders and the medical community, were literally pulling their hair out, in fear, in near panic about him resisting their good guidance. They were shocked the degree to which he put american lives in peril for his own political benefit. And it sounds a little bit like by linking Election And Vaccination distress, hes linking those things for his political benefit again. Phil, im trying to remember back to last spring and the moment in which i realized trump was gonna end up in the wrong side of things, early on when we had numbers of people vaccinated in either the single digits or the low double digits, an excerpt from your book in which you ride, trump did not want Sick Americans landing on u. S. Soil, even if they were working for the state department, or else the government would have to report a rise in infections and that would make the public, the voters, nervous. The president was always thinking about the political ramifications for himself, even in a crisis. We remember he was at the cdc in atlanta, there was a Ship Docking that had infected people and he didnt want that to happen because he said it would double or triple or numbers of covid people. The scientific community understood that that was going to triple and multiply because this was going to be a pandemic. The president seemed in that moment make a decision, this was politics over pandemic. Thats exactly right, ali. That was the president s mindset from Day One of the pandemic. Remember, even before anybody whos the pword and called it a pandemic, trump was downplaying the coronavirus saying that it would disappear, saying it could go away with the warmer air, saying it was under control. His words. And then when people started getting infected in the united states, he tried to limit the number of tests. He didnt want those people, as you mentioned, who had been in china from coming back to the united states right away, because he was worried that the number of infections in the u. S. Would go up and that would somehow weekend his political standing. Well he didnt understand in the moment when he was trying to survive each new cycle daytoday, was that the Compounding Gravity of the Coronavirus Situation was creating an untenable political situation for him, heading into his reelection. I mean, he by all accounts, according to our reporting for this book, and we talked to 140 senior officials, trump failed at managing this pandemic. And then of course he failed at managing Race Relations in this country. Lets just stick with the pandemic, fill, for a second, it wasnt just scientific experts who were advising against this there were some political experts who were advising that he should take a different approach. From a book, carole, im not gonna do it, the tee received he said that even though the Executive Order of ideals a no go, trump could still help himself politically by putting a mask on his face. Wear a mask, for preshow counseled the president , voters dont think you take it seriously. And he says, people tell me it makes me look weak, trump replied, people see biden and hes always wearing a mask and he looks weak. People tell me it doesnt look president ial. So all of those things that continue to exist now because i saw a movement about free our children from on mask or children or something. This Mask Thing Donald Trump could have in the early days put an end to, it is it as simple as the fact that he thought that it made him look weak . You know, its interesting, the president when he said at the time that people tell me, what he really often was meaning was i feel like i look weak. I will tell you that we learned in our reporting that the chief of staff, mark meadows, at the time, council the medical advisers and political advisers, no way, he cant wear a mask. Hes already dug in on this. He cant do it because his base will basically rebel. But Donald Trump himself believed that he looks weak. He told phil and i that, about the importance, in his mind, of looking strong, looking healthy, looking impenetrable. That was important to him. The other thing that is very sad about this moment is that robert redfield, the Cdc Director, its one of his greatest regrets. According to our reporting, he repeatedly tried to get the president and ultimately when failing to convince him, he tried to get the president s physician to convince the president for his own safety, just that alone, where the mask. But redfield knew and told conley and aides, if the president would wear the mask, we would literally save Hundreds Of Thousands of lives. And the President Wouldnt do it. And yet, this continues today. The things that were talking today, feels like ancient history, was last spring. Just today, Anthony Fauci was testifying before congress, the Sun Committee on Health Education and labor pensions, and got into it with senator red paul, a man with medical education. Lets just play a little bit of what happened between the two them today. Senator paul, i have never lied before the congress and i do not retract that statement. Senator paul, you do not know what you are talking about, quite frankly. I dont want to say that officially. You do not know what you are talking about. I totally resent the lie that you are now propagating, senator. You are implying that what we did was responsible for the deaths of individual, i totally resent that and if anybody is lying here, senator, it is you. Phil, that stuff that started then continues today. We talked about Steve Scalise getting an injection, we talked about hannah be taking this seriously, it is july of 2021, these decisions are being made it in march and April Of 2020 and theyve lived its like a german cockroach, it just keeps on going. Thats right. What an incredible exchange by the way, today between doctor fauci and senator paul. It underscores the degree to which President Trump succeeded, last year, in making Anthony Fauci a political Punching Bag for his conservative base. Fauci, a Career Government scientists, had one objective through the year of 2020 in dabbles to save lives and get america out of this pandemic, and yet trump in part according to our reporting, because he was so jealous of his popularity tried to bludgeon fauci, try to soil his appearance in the minds of his supporters. And its continuing today, as you saw there with senator paul, are going against fauci trying to discredit him, and trying to put blame on him for the deaths of people in this country. Even though fauci is trying to do the right thing and keep this country safe and get people vaccinated so we can move on. Good night to you, i want to leave our viewers with one more excerpt from your book, i think it answers a question that a lot of people have. The interview he said it was a great honor, he offered to do another if we needed to ask Anything Else and shrugged off the mention of how many hours hed already spent answering our questions. I enjoyed it actually, trump said with a twinkle in his eye. For some six reason, i enjoyed it. Carol Leonnig And Philip rucker, we enjoy your company all the time. I guess Donald Trump does to. The new book is called, i alone can fix it, Donald J trumps catastrophic final here. Thank you both for joining us. Coming up. Kevin Mccarthy Show today his intention to turn the bipartisan commission investigating the deadly insurrection at the u. S. Capital and to a troll event, with the completely on syrias pick up three people from the overturn the election caucus. Coming up next we will talk to someone who knows better about how to tempt that down, Chairman Adam Shift is with us next. H us next millions of vulnerable americans struggle to get reliable transportation to their medical appointments. Thats why i started medhaul. 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Who supported them, where did they get their money from . But would the republicans on the select committee actually allow us to learn more, or would they turn it into another political circus designed to defend Donald Trump . Republican leader Kevin Mccarthy has allowed to propose five Committee Members to speaker Nancy Pelosi, three of the five Republicans Mccarthy chose have and brace trumps big lie, and voted to overturn the election against joe biden, including the Trump Sick of it Jim Jordan who yesterday said this about this particular committee. About this we know what this is impeachment around three, this is go after President Trump. That is alive. Kevin mccarthy once republican congressman Jim Banks to service the number two on the committee, Jim Banks who also voted to overturn the election said yesterday quote, Nancy Pelosi created this committee solely to malign conservatives and to justify the left or darien agenda, and quote. That is also a lie. Today Speaker Pelosi said this about whether she will approve the members who Kevin Mccarthy has proposed. I am considering his proposals. Have you made a final decision . Id like to be clear about how people voted on the president , affirming the election of joe biden, is not a criterion for service, that doesnt matter. What is the criteria . Well, youll find out. Joining me now is Adam Schiff of california, hes the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, he served as the Lead Impeachment Manager in the first impeachment trial, of Donald Trump, he is also gonna be on this committee. Thank you for joining us. I want to start there with what Nancy Pelosi has just said, im paraphrasing but shes basically saying that voting to overturn the election or not certify the election on january six, which is a separate thing from the insurrection, but theyre connected, voting to do that is not disqualifying to be on the committee. I want to get your reaction to that. Well, i think the speaker has taken a position all along that we want to get to the truth, we want to get to the heart of the matter. We are willing to work with the other side, and were even willing to work as she stated today with people who voted to decertify the election. We were willing to have a commission with five democrats and five republicans, in which not a single subpoena could go out if republicans uniformly objective. That was a leap of faith. Kevin mccarthy didnt want any of that, Donald Trump did one any of that, they dont want the truth to come out. I think it is reflected in some of the choices that theyve made, for the select committee now. But were gonna confirm, as a body, to discuss and analyze Whats Mccarthy is proposing. I think some of them are being put on just to disrupt and were not going to allow ourselves to be deterred, were gonna get to the truth of all the facts regarding january six. Lots of people, who may not be conspiracy theorist, or nonsense paddlers, have said to me what Jim Jordan said. This is just impeachment three. This is just another impeachment. You were a Lead Impeachment Manager. You are the Ranking Member and then the chair of the house intel committee, youve seen all of this stuff, what is the response to people who say, this is just another go at It Impeachment . If it wasnt another go at It Impeachment, we would not have proposed at the committee be equally divided between democrats and republicans as we did with the commission. We would not have negotiated a bill in bipartisan good faith, that the Ranking Member of the Homeland Security agree to. But they didnt want that because they dont want an honest inquiry into the facts of january six. And to answer the question you asked, how is it organized . How was it paid for . What did people know in congress or the White House about the violence that was going to take place, before the events of that day . Was there advanced notice . What intelligence did we have or not have . What did we do to protect the country going forward . Those are questions every american should want answer to. Its a very different kind of inquiry than an impeachment in wish you are looking at whether the president should be convicted or removed from office. Youre gonna be hearing from officers including one, sergeant colleen oconnell, whos with the u. S. Capitol police he spoke to many hassan on july six, and you may hear many testimonies about him, lets just hear what he has said too many hassan. When former President Trump was in power he said you cannot hold him accountable because he is on the door he is leaving, when he goes out of the office, you cant hold him accountable because hes already out of the office. Every single time though they had the opportunity to call the president , the former president , they havent. This sergeant seems confused about this. Mitch mcconnell said after the Impeachment Vote that theyre or methods by which Donald Trump can be held accountable for what he did, but this sergeant is wondering what a lot of americans are wondering about, where are the methods as far as republicans are concerned, there doesnt seem to be any methods, every time they want to hold Donald Trump accountable theres a reason why they shouldnt . There was a brief moment after the insurrection when mitch mcconnell, i think felt the pains of conscious, felt some call to defend the republic, but it was fleeting. And he quickly realized that if you try to hold the president accountable, he would lose his position, and i think that was nothing more important to him than maintaining his position. Kevin mccarthy had no struggle along those lines, he is 100 percent a political animal. The reality is the Republican Party is gone. They built an altar around Donald Trump. The legislative committee will do whatever they want and they will not hold him accountable. They are afraid of his face. As long as that is true, they will continue pushing out his lies, big and small, because that is what their party is right now. It is an anti truth party, its an autocratic party, and we need republicans of good conscience to take back their part, because the system depends on two healthy parties. Chairman schiff, glad to see you, thank you always for joining me. Chairman Adam Shift of the House Intelligence Committee will be serving on the select committee looking into january six. Coming up Neal Katyal is gonna join us, the arrest of Trumps Confidant and the trump inaugural committee. Inaugural committee. Lisa here, has had many jobs. Shes worked in retail during the holidays. As a barista during rush hour. And a nanny to a couple of rambunctious kids. 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A superpower. Welcome to the brotherhood of muscle. Yet another member of trumps Inner Circle has been indicted. Another one. Tom barrack, the chair of trumps 2017 inaugural committee was arrested today and charged with failing to register as a foreign lobbyist of the united arab emirates. According to the union or New York times, federal prosecutors said that mr. Barrack used his position as an outside adviser to mr. Trumps campaign to publicly promote the Uaes Agenda while solicited direction, feedback, and talking points from senior uae officials, and quote. Barrack has also been charged with Obstruction Of Justice and making false statements during a 2019 interview with federal agents. A spokesperson for Tom Barrack says, quote, mr. Barrack has made himself voluntarily available to investigators from the outset. He is not guilty and will be pleading not guilty, and quote. The charges were brought by federal prosecutors in New York who asked that barrack remain in custody until his Bail Hearing, he is a very rich guy. They cited his wealth, his access to a private jet, quote, he defends a longstanding tie with namely, Saudi Arabia and the uae. That Bail Hearing has been suffered this coming monday july 26th. For those of you who are Keeping Track at home, he is the seventh associate of trumps to be indicted. And although he was not associate with the campaign, broidy, was also charged with failing to register as a foreign agent, just like Tom Barrack. Broidy pleaded guilty in 2020 to violating this very act, the foreign registration act. He was pardoned by Donald Trump in his last day of office. The guy to help us is neil catchall, he is a former msnbc legal contributor. Most of these people dont need the money, by the way. Tom barrack certainly dont need the money. I dont know what it was, what attracts one, does Donald Trump find these people, do they find him . While youre answering that, ill ask you to put up all the connected people to trump who have been indicted. I think the screen, and you said right at the outset, this is another one of Trumps Confidence thats been indicted. The astonishing thing of Todays Indictment is just how many people surrounding Donald Trump have been accused of crimes. I dont know, it seems like you have to be a felon to qualify for a job with Donald Trump. That was the qualification. And, perhaps, the biggest Loser Today in all of this is as Allen Weisselberg who realized that he couldve been making Uae Money instead of settling for which is what he got. And by the way, you mentioned something interesting, and theres a reason why these laws exist. This thing that Garish Kushner was involved in, and barrack was involved, and others were involved, and which really became this fight between the country of qatar and Saudi Arabia and the united emirates. Working for foreign governments for the purpose of influencing u. S. Policy has real world implications. Those countries, they Embargo Qatar for a very long time. He said it beautifully, and this act that he was accused of violating, the foreign registration act, it is one of the it saying look you want to lobby for foreign government, you can do that. Were not gonna block you from that. You just have to tell us. You have to open about it. You have to register in advance so that everyone knows. And the accusations in this indictment are scary. Basically, one of trumps best friends was trying to illustrate stuff in trump speeches without acknowledging at all that he was acting on behalf of a foreign government. And thats been a flat violation of the law since well before you and i were born. And its big bucks. The indictment alleges possibly 1. 5 billion dollars that this fund controlled by Tom Barrack got. And Barracks Defense is only 10 of that fund, that still 100 and 50 million. So the idea that you can do that, and profit this way, thats with the law is all about. Blocking foreign influence in our government, at least without disclosing it in advance. So generally speaking, the violations of this registration act, theres procedural, theres something that havent been filled out, they generally a lot of people go to jail for the sort of thing. But theres a fundamental importance to the law. As you just articulated, theres a reason its there and its about transparency, right . We have to actually know when decisions are made, whether somebody else with some other interest, whether its financial or world on a nation, or something, its influencing the decision of the u. S. Government and the president of the united states. So it seems bureaucratic on the surface but there is a fundamental, philosophical reason for laws like this. Exactly, its not procedural at all, with all due respect. This is the heart of all american government. You can lobby for foreign government, you just have to tell everyone. And its not like this is unknown. Everyone who works in this town in washington d. C. Knows about this acts and knows how to stay on the right side of it. The reason why cases are brought in front is because nobody in their right mind would violate this. Point to is the Indictment Today is not just about the foreign agents registration act, its also about trumps best friend, Tom Barrack, lied to the fbi and obstructed justice when he was asked about this. And he faces four charges of lying during a voluntary interview. I mean talk about digging your own grave. Im glad you brought that point, that is not i forgot to submit the form, its the fbi asked me about this, and i didnt say, im not speaking to you, because it right to do that, he had a right to say i watch it online order all the time. You can tell people you do want to talk to. Them but he did want to do, it and he lied to, them and hes in trouble for them. Neil, thanks for helping us through this one, because It Puzzles me, it boggles me. This was Neal Katyal he is a msnbc legal contributor. Coming up, we will be joined by civil Rights Actor Dolores Huerta and how she sees the fight for Voting Rights. R Voting Rights. Had enough . No. Arthritis. Here. New aspercreme arthritis. Full prescriptionstrength . Reduces inflammation . Thank the gods. Dont thank them too soon. Kick pain in the aspercreme. Your Skin Isnt just skin, its a beautiful reflection of everything youve been through. 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Soft, smooth. New dove handwash. Texas democrats are keeping a spotlight on Voting Rights despite their covid related setbacks. Its full of virtual events and d. C. Including the key democratic lawmakers. This morning, the texas democrats held a Video Call with House Majority with Jim Clad Burn and they participated in discussions with Civil Rights groups. This week, the delegation is gonna speak with four secretaries of state, and for democrat It Legislators from arizona, florida where theyve already passed voting legislations. But kicking this off is civil Rights Icon Dolores Huerta Who Cofounded at the United Farmworkers of america. Here is some of whats Dolores Huerta said to the texas democrats. This happening right now we, its even more severe, its broader, its bigger than what was going on in the sixties. You are the soldiers who are fighting for everybody, not just for texas but for arizona, your fighting for all of the states where they are passing these laws to suppress the vote. You are standing up for the ideals and the dreams of what america is and what america should be. Joining us now is Dolores Huerta Civil Rights activists and labor reader, she is the cofounder of the United Farmers of america. They did that in 1962, but dolores, im not meaning to say anything about your age on tv, its impolite, my mother would be very crossed. You started the agricultural Workers Association in 1960. You have been working on this stuff since 1955. This fight, you know, when you tell these people that this is more serious than it was in the sixties, you are there at the front lines of Civil Rights fights in the 19 fifties, in the 19 sixties, 19 seventies, 19 eighties, 19 nineties. It hasnt stopped for. You know it hasnt, and way back in the fifties, actually, in california we passed the laws that people could vote in the Spanish Line language, and that anybody who was a citizen could register and vote. In california, we have some of the most liberal Voting Rights, people didnt vote people can vote online or they can register on their cellphones or computers. When you go to the dmv to get your drivers license, youre automatically registered. Weve had mailin ballots for very long time now. So we would hope that the other states but catch up with us, especially texas, because we know that especially for the latino community there, theres 40 of the population is latino, and they cannot registered, Vote And Experience voter suppression. Texas with you and chavez are, your names are and so see it with agricultural labor, but in fact, in 1960, one of the things that you did was Voter Registration drives for those agricultural workers. Absolutely. We came out of another organization called the Community Service Organization and that was our entire surface were was to encourage people to vote. And those were the foundations. We continue to do that exactly. And i mentioned about texas being 40 latino population. You know, in the state of virginia, which has only less than 8 , it was the latino vote that really helped to turn virginia from a Red State to a blue state. A lot of people dont know that. What did you tell these folks from texas . Because it looks on some days, like a losing battle. Theyre gonna go back to texas. Many of them may face arrest. They are prepared to be arrested. Its not a criminal charge but a sergeant at arms could arrest them for not being in the house. But this is not going in easily. And without a majority in the texas house, it may not end in their favor. So what is somebody like you with, literally decades with Voter Registration and Civil Rights work, we tell them . I want to tell them that the nation is grateful for the sacrifice that they are doing. Leaving their children and their work behind, because of this courageous action that they are taking fighting for the Voting Rights of everyone, for all of the people in the states we they have joined the march of Civil Rights leaders like reverent dr. Martin luther king, john lewis, by the actions that theyre taking. And i hope that all the people in texas please see what your representatives are doing. Please do the work, because they are done they are gone right now in washington d. C. , but everyone and texas down there, do you work, go tell everyone that you have to support them. We have to fight for Abraham Lincoln said that the ballot has got more power than the bullet. The ballot has got more power than the bullet. We have Voting Rights because this is the soul of america, the soul of america is our democracy, and we all have to stand up for this fight. Because without that, we cannot keep our democracy, we cannot engage with it, we cannot defend, that we cannot fight for it. They decided To Go to d. C. , Not Oklahoma or somewhere else, because they wanted to have impact with federal legislators. Do you think that federal legislators are taking them seriously . Lets cut through the bs, is their message going to resonate with those democratic senators who are standing in the way who are of this filibuster to intrench the week we hope that they will, we hope that this message we, with that this will reach their hearts, that it will reach the consciousness. And make them realize that what they are doing, they are fighting for all of us. We have to fight to keep our nation a democratic society, and if we dont, fight we are gonna lose. It and if we see that were at this critical point right now in our nation where there they dont care. They want power, they are greedy, they dont care about the working people, they dont care about people of color, of women. So we are The Ones who have to commit. And we have this Wonderful Demo Texas democrat who are paving the way and showing us that we have to sacrifice we, thats do, that lets keep our democracy. Very generous of you to say that they are paving the way, but if were gonna talk about people paving the way for Civil Rights, your name goes to the top of that list. Dolores huerta thank you for joining us tonight. We Dolores Huerta is a Civil Rights activist, she doesnt need much introduction. Coming up right now, six of those texas democrats, all of them vaccinated, all tested positive for covid. Is the surprising where the groups of vaccination is almost complete . Doctor ashish k. Jha joins us after this. After this for Colon Cancer . Because when caught in early stages, its more treatable. Im cologuard. 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We know that there will be a Breakthrough Cases, but vaccinated individuals are typical mild symptoms. With regular testing we will try to win a guest severe illness or hospitalizations. Cdc director Rochelle Wilenski said the Delta Variant of the coronavirus accounts for 88 of all new Covid Cases in the united states. Joining us now is Doctor Ashish K. Jha he is the dean of brown University School of public health, dr. John, good to see you again. How worried should we be, in vaccinated circles, people getting this either the Delta Variant or some version of the coronavirus . Ali, thanks for having me back. I think this is to be expected for a couple of reasons. One, we are seeing massive outbreaks in unvaccinated individuals. We have a lot of virus circulating around. Its going to challenge vaccinated people and we can see breakthroughs. So this is not totally surprising. The good news is, people who have these Breakthrough Infections have had mild symptoms. That means that these vaccines are working. We so the point of vaccines is to reduce at the amount of infections in the community. I never got my head around the term but, viral load, when were talking about how infectious something is compared to the flu, a year ago. Is the viral load such that people who are vaccinated can be spreading this to other people . Yet we, they can, but far less likely to. And that is the key thing. So theyre a couple of differences between vaccinated people and unvaccinated. People unvaccinated people spread quite efficiently, they spread when they dont have cyst symptoms. Vaccinated people seem to have much lower viral loads. They are less likely to spread asymptomatically. And even when they have bad symptoms, they can spread it to other people but its not that common. The efficacy, weve seen certain studies that show that the main vaccines that weve got have some degree of efficacy against the Delta Variant. Does it mean that youre not gonna get it, it just means that youre going to get it generally speaking if you are vaccinated and you get this deal to vaccinate variant, will you experience less symptoms . Exactly, there are two things going. On first you are much like less likely to get it. Lets be very clear, if youre vaccinated you are less likely to get an infection. But, if you are unlucky enough to get infected, you will have a much milder disease. Look, i dont want to be infected, nobody wants to get infected with the Delta Variant or other variant. But what we care about most is avoiding hospitalizations and deaths. And the vaccine seems to be terrific at doing that. I want to play for you something that doctor fauci said at this Hearing Today about the duration of the vaccines. Lets listen to that together. There are also areas of immunity that are more difficult to measure the T Cell responses we but the way we know from where theres a Baseline Level among which you go that is much more vulnerable of getting a breakthrough infection. The question was being asked was the duration of the vaccine. As we get further and further away from the first people get vaccinated, when these vaccines came out, does this become more of a danger and how does that work into this concept of Booster Shots . Its a great question, theres a lot that we still dont know, but heres what i would think about. It their two arms to the immunity, there is the antibodies that dr. Fauci was talking about. Think about as your active forces. And then you have your reserves, your T Cells. And what were seeing is some early data, that youre getting a little bit of waning action from your active forces. Serbian seymour Breakthrough Cases. Were not seeing any waning of the T Cells, your reserves, so even if you get a breakthrough, the T Cells kick in and they prevent you from getting sick. So youre gonna have long Term Protection against severe illness, but we may need a booster. Especially more vulnerable, high risk people, especially older people in nursing homes. I think they might need a booster shot some time soon. One boy its going to be a lot harder because not just talking about this horrible Delta Variant but were also talking about future variance. This thing to me, whats striking about people who have not gotten vaccinated is, dont we all want to put this behind us . Like arent we ready to move on from covid . I am. And the only way thats gonna happen is if 90 , 85, 90 of people, have immunity to this. We just need a lot more people getting vaccinated. And until that happens, we will continue struggling with this. We ashish i did not guess that i a year and a half later i would still have questions to ask. You ashish k. Jha is the dean of Brown University of public health and we, like so many add others, have made some time to answer questions for us. With the 11th Hour with Brian Williams begins now. We 11th ho ur with Bria Willia good evening once aga, day 182 of the biden Administration And Tonight yet another member of the twice impeached former president s Inner Circle is in very deep trouble with the feds and behind bars in fact. On lobbying the Trump Administration on behalf of the uae. Hes accused of failing to register with the as well as obstruction and lying to the fbi about his dealings with the uk he hes been friends with Donald Trump since the eighties, barrack helped rescue his business and later became a top r