99 of the people who are dying from covid are unvaccinated. Thats their choice. How the antivax message made it through the mainstream through Social Media and right wing repetition. Plus, what the death of Biz Markie says about structural racism in america and why is the speaker of the house considering letting this guy investigate the insurrection. We know what this is about. This is impeachment round three for the democrats. When All In starts right now. Good evening from New York, im chris hayes. We have big breaking news tonight. Yet another close Trump Associate arrested and charged with crimes of corruption. His name is tom barrack. A billionaire businessman. Hes accused of illegally lobbying Donald Trump on behalf of the united arab emirates. Prosecutors unsealed a huge seven count 46 page indictment. Well go through it. We have a Reporter Reporting oen this. This is a very important development for a bunch of reasons, not the least of which because when we last met here at this desk Last Night we were talking about the fate of the Rule Of Law where the Justice Department changed hands from William Barr and the final days the lackey Jeff Rosen to joe bidens new Attorney General merrick garland. The Justice Department had declined to prosecute wilbur ross. That was according to reporting from the associated Press And Government executive. That decision not to prosecute came after the Commerce Department own inspector general found ross had lied to congress about a Citizenship Question that he wanted to add to the 2020 census. We have an important update to that story. The ap and Government Executive have both issued corrections clarifying that in fact it was the trump Justice Department that made the decision not to prosecute ross not the biden administration. Which is of course a very, very big difference which is right in line with the Rule Of Law in the Trump Era and what is to be done about the criminal enterprise that was the Trump Administration because this is an astounding fact but its true. Wilbur ross is the fifth member of Donald Trumps cabinet who is referred to Justice Department prosecutors, the fifth, all five the doj decided not to prosecute. The first was Ryan Zinke involved in multiple scandals getting involved in a Land Deal in his Home State of montana. There was former Labor Secretary Alex acosta who gave Sex Trafficker Jeffrey epstein a sweetheart deal. There was former secretary of Veterans Affairs robert wilke. He questioned the credibility of a veteran who was sexually assaulted. And Elaine Chow who directed staff to do personal work for her and her father. The Trump Department of justice declined to prosecute all of those people. Astonishingly yet another Trump Associate was arrested and charged with serious crimes. As i mentioned earlier, his name is Tom Barbarrack. His bad Wedding Toast Speech at the convention when he was a major fundraiser for the Trump Campaign. He helped convince Donald Trump To Hire his old Friend Paul Manafort and after trump won the Election Barrack became chair of the inaugural committee. That committee was later investigated and charged with Misusing Funds to enrich trumps family business. Barrack was a frequent proner of the President Elect going on tv to praise his brilliance. The man is brilliant so what he did Last Night, the foreign community had no idea who this man is. I can tell you for sure Last Night the cables were flying saying this President Elect is so much better, so much more thought full, so much more culturally adapt than anybody thought. Im sorry. I hadnt seen the clip, i just read the transcript. Its even better when he delivers it. That was two days before the inauguration after Trump Ruffled Feathers by calling nato obsolete. Barrack has extensive business and personal links to the middle east. Today he was arrested on federal charges, a seven Count Indictment accusing him of acting as an unregistered agent of the united arab emirates. Prosecutors say barrack inserted language that praised Emerati Official and promoted the uae during media appearances after soliciting direction from officials. Barrack acted to aid the uae in the u. S. Government, agreed to advocate for the appointment of individuals favored by the uae in the new administration. These charges are the result of a nearly threeyear investigation of investigators and the fbi. They appeared in the Department Of Justice doing the right thing, which is to say going over the facts and bringing a case against a very powerful and high Profile Person just as we were advocaing for tonight. Isnt it amazing to take a step back and marvel at the growing Rap Sheet of trump world. The Law And Order guy, remember him . In addition to tom barrack, theres Paul Manafort. Theres steve bannon, former chief strategist who was arrested on the yacht of a chinese billionaire accused of swindling trump supporters and never had to stand trial because he was also pardoned. There is Roger Stone convicted by a jury of his peers of lying to congress and then pardoned. Theres michael cohn, trumps Lawyer And Fixer who pleaded guilty of Tax Fraud and campaign violations. Theres Michael Flynn who pleaded guilty to lying to investigators and was also pardoned by trump. Rick gates, former Trump Campaign Deputy Official who pleaded guilty to charges of conspiracy and making false statements. There is Donald Trump himself whose business is facing Tax Evasion charges that are brought by the Manhattan District attorney. Truthfully a remarkable situation when you add it all up. Rebecca davis obrien, reporter at the Wall Street Journal where she covers white Collar Law Enforcement and she joins me now. Rebecca, talk us through what is alleged in this indictment. What law did barrack violate . Sure. Federal prosecutors in brooklyn accused Tom Barbarrack two m groups of charges. First, he worked alongside a former employee and an emeratie businessman. Basically acting as a conduit for promoting the united arab emirates political wishes to the Trump Campaign and the administration. Secondly, mr. Barrack faces five charges that are considered obstruction charges. Obstruction of Justice Count and four counts of lying to the fbi in a June 2019 interview with them about the about his dealings with the emirates. So theres some fascinating stuff in the indictment. These are allegations brought by the government. They appear to show like tight coordination between barrack and the emirates. Youll be the u. S. Ambassador, that will be great for us. Whats the motive here, right . Is it just that he has so much Business Investment in that region coming in from the uae and the saudis that this is his way of greasing the wheels for that business . I mean, certainly a lot of unanswered questions here. What did strike me about the indictment, there is a suggestion of money changing hands and mr. Barrack has a lot of money. Hes a successful businessman. I was struck by two things, one is the Depth And Extent of the correspondence between these three menace they go about allegedly editing op eds, speeches, Policy Platforms but also i think what you say, its not quite clear what he stood to gain from this yet. Im sure that prosecutors will lay that out as we go forward. As with a lot of these investigations into the Trump Administration and allegations of foreign interference, theres sort of an undertone of Power And Access to power and i think that that is you know, thats sort of alleged to be broadly speaking a motivating factor. Yeah. You know, during the Cold War they would always say that spies would be turned for money or biological reasons. There were some people that had biological predilection towards the soviet union. Im reading from the indictment, is barrack a real Uae Lover . Ive never encountered someone in the wild. I want to see that the united arab emirates interests are represented in the u. S. Government. Its never spelled out. Well learn more. What is his status right now . He was denied bail, is that correct . Hes in custody . Yeah, hes in custody right now. He was arrested in california where he lives and today this afternoon a Magistrate Judge in federal court in california temporarily detainment pending a hearing next monday. Hell make his way to Brooklyn Federal Court and enter a Plea And Deal with the next steps of the investigation. I should note my understanding is one of the codefendants and Emirate Business men fled the country in 2019 after being questioned by the fbi and never been seen since . Im sure somebody has seen him but the Federal Prosecutors consider him at large, yeah. Someone has seen him. Rebecca davis obrien, thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Matt miller is a former Chief Spokesman for the Department Of Justice under Attorney General Paul Butler and now professor at georgetown university law center. Matt, Last Night we were talking about the many decisions that have to be made by the Department Of Justice. In this case i think this is a Front Line eastern District Investigation and prosecution but what does it say to you that this has come to fruition . Well, it says to me that, you know, Bill Barr for all of his flaws as an Attorney General, i think there are many, we saw him intervene many times to stop them from going forward to overturn their recommendations, that there were some cases that maybe just because they were so strong he didnt intervene in or wasnt able to intervene or maybe made the case they were righteous cases. This case clearly if you look at the evidence in this indictment today, the evidence is pretty strong and i dont know, you know, if the Attorney General didnt stop it because it could have been too politically costly. Does he have other cases that he intervened in or a case that ought to be forward because it is a good case. It is somewhat interesting that for all of the flaws of Bill Barr the Justice Department did produce Outcomes Donald Trump didnt love. Paul, the public integrity unit, you worked in that i think in maine justice, which theres Field Office ones or in the u. S. Attorneys offices and the main justice. You know, how a case like this goes through those offices where i imagine theres a lot of very close eyes if youre going to do something like this. Yeah. And the question goes to motive because all barrack had to do is register and then everything that he did would have been legal. And you literally just go online, fill out some forms and pay 305. This Registration Requirement is about national security and transparency. If youre talking to the u. S. Government on behalf of another country, you have to disclose it. This laws been around since the 1930s. There have been 50 Criminal Prosecutions including of Paul Manafort who pled guilty to violating this law. One of the interesting things about this indictment though, chris, it actually presents President Trump as a victim. It says he was one of the people who was portrayed by barracks hidden allegiance to a foreign government. You mentioned this, a law from the 30s. This has to be transparent, they have to be registered, people know what the angle is of that individual. Weve seen, a, enforcement of that has been lax for a long time. Matt, i feel like that lack of enforcement reached the crescendo theres foreign interests crawling all over the White House using all kinds of Back Channels all over the place to get to this president who is an easy man to get to compared to the more institutionalized democracy of a normal president. Youre right, the law was hardly enforced for decades. If the Justice Department found it, they wouldnt indict you, theyd ask you to register and cure the crime which is not something they did in most cases. I think what happened is, you know, i suspect the Justice Department was looking at all of the activity around the White House and saw that, look, theres something really nefarious going on in here in all kinds of circumstances. Obviously the russia investigation. One of the things about the russia investigation, it captured so much attention that i think there were other really ugly scandals and this is one of them. There are other people involved in the uae lobby, Elliott Brady who ended up pleading guilty to a different crime. George nader ended up going to jail for Child Sex Trafficking and child pornography. He was involved in this uae thing. The Justice Department said we have to find a way to police this. They dusted off a law that hasnt been used and use it aggressively. It will have ramifications going forward. Because of the crimes of the Trump Era youll have this Law Being policed much more aggressively for all sorts of actors in washington. Paul, i was i got my start as a reporter in Chicago And Chicago is, of course, a great place to report on political Corruption Ledgendarily so. Even with the astonishingly corrupt individuals, i dont think i covered any administration at any level that had this many people around them arrested, prosecuted and then convicted or pardoned for official corruption. Its true, but in defense of my hometown, chicago, at least i can say when theyre corrupt there, they get something out of it. Here we dont know what this motive was. The law doesnt require that you receive some kind of profit and the indictment doesnt say that he got any money from the uae. The New York times has reported that the uae had interests in one of barracks businesses. Maybe it was a billionaire who thought he was above the law. Thank you for joining us. Coronavirus cases are on the rise all across the country. Places of low vaccination rates are getting hit hardest. Those states tend to be conservative states, which is the Target Audience for Fox News. Every Night Fox continues to peddle conspiracies and misinformation about the vaccine. What if i told you it was a different story behind the scenes over at Fox News hr. Next, the Disinformation Machine and the Fox News Vaccine Passports coming up right after this break. Th gel for powerful arthritis pain relief. Voltaren the joy of movement oh, focaccia ah, theres no place like panera. Enjoy the toasty, saucy Chipotle Chicken Avocado melt on freshly baked bread. Panera. Order on the app today. New dove men, plant based Body Wash is different. With plant based cleansers. And moisturizers for healthy and hydrated men, skin, relax your body and mind, shower with new dove men. When you have nausea, heartburn, ingestion, upset stomach. Dy and mind, diarrheaaaa. Pepto bismol coats your stomach with fast and soothing relief. And try new drug free pepto herbal blends. Made from 100 natural ginger and peppermint. vo the subaru crosstrek. Dog tested. Dog approved. Here are the two battling to the Line And Allyson felix. Simone manuels above her trying to fight on, and above simone. Getting an opportunity to show her stuff. Nonstop, displayed at the highest performance level. Finding something and the us takes Gold Dream on Dream On Dream On Dream On yes Ahhhhhhh Dream until your Dreams Come True as covid cases continue to grow in all 50 states, there are millions and millions of americans eligible for the vaccine who have not been vaccinated for a whole variety of reasons, probably as many reasons as there are people. I want to keep making this clear because i think its tempting to reduce this to a simple political story that millions of these folks, its not because they love Donald Trump or Fox News or have Conservative Politics, its complicated. That said its also clear and undeniable that a big part of the Vaccine Resistance is being driven by opposition of conservative media. Take a look at 24 chart. Each line represents a States Vaccination Rate over time. The blue lines on the top, those are the blue states getting vaccinated much higher than any state who voted for trump although you see those ones flattening as well. It is undeniably the case that one of the main issues we are facing in combatting this disease 18 months into this is a kind of radicalization of The American right against vaccination. For all of the Back And Forth between the White House and facebook, theres one other very obvious source of vaccine Ds Disinformation Night in and night out that is not facebook nkts the big problem here is what the president is not telling young people. Maybe, dan, we have breaking news. Turns out the vaccines might not work if five on the same plane had the covid19 virus. This is a pandemic of the unvaccinated is simply untrue. Thats a lie. The vice theyre giving you isnt designed to help, its designed to make you comply. And you shouldnt comply mindlessly. Every one of those Sound Bites was from Fox News. Theyre not true. I mean, there are people who are unvaccinated that are vaccinated who have gotten break through cases but by and large it is a pandemic of unvaccinated. Fox undermined Vaccination Efforts in nearly 60 of all Vaccination Segments in a twoweek period. It is almost always done in the most would you wardly way imaginable. Its not dont get vaccinated, were just asking questions. Dont take a position. Dont take medical advice from people on tv. Theyre trying to get you to comply so you should not comply. Its antiprovax and all stoking fears and misgiving about every other single intervention that could save lives whether that was social distancing, Closing Bars and nightclubs and masking indoors. The dominant perspective of that perspective from the network has been who cares if all of those people die, theyre old, poor, sick anyway. Now one person who does care about old people dieing is News Corp Boss Rupert Mourdock himself is old and is one of the first people in the world to get the vaccine while his network is making tons of Money And Rating perfectly well pumping the kind of nonsense we just played but that wont affect the actual Policy Makers in fox who are forced into the same Conundrum Anyone does. How do institutions to working areas keep people safe with a Delta Variant and a safe, free, effective vaccine available . What to do . One answer is make sure people are vaccinated. Thats precisely the kind of policy that Fox News has been rallying against, the heavy hand from above telling you what to do. Vaccine passports. You might be surprised to learn thats exactly what the bosses at fox are doing with their own building because they do understand the dangers of the situation, the preening i had Yo Si of its hosts. The intercepts Ryan Grim says they have their own vaccine passport. They will be provided a fox clear pass. Thats a smart idea. Unvaccinated employees must continue to comply with all of Foxs Covid19 categories. That makes sense. Lets distinguish between folks that are vaccinated and unvaccinated. What hoops they have to jump through. Sensible. Sensible. The solution suggests that strongly encouraging vaccinations might be an interesting path forward. Maybe we should book the head of Fox Hr here. If youre looking for one of the most obvious places to start it would be nice for one of the most influential Mouth Pieces to stop undermining the health of its viewers. Rene is a technical researchers for stanford. The other day she had a great Twitter Thread explaining the antivax movement. She joins me now. Thanks for joining me. I liked what you had to say there. It synced up with the intuition i had. What does your research suggest about how these messages of Vaccine Skepticism is spreading . Its difficult to differentiate between media and Social Media. Thats because almost every major Media Company has a social Media Area as well. What you start to see is were perfect put two waiting the idea that theyre different. Thats not right. What is different is who is on them. People are communicating with their friends or people who dont have major mouthpieces who arent anchors on major platforms create their own content. Thats the value of Social Media. From the Bottom Up or Grassroots Messaging that begins to come out. There are a lot of true antivaccine activists on Social Media but their reach is much, much smaller. Their audience is much smaller as well. Its not an either or as understanding how the two work together. What are the sort of main heres my question. You know, Social Media is everywhere across the world and, you know, people have Skepticism Or Distrust in authorities in all kinds of places and all kinds of cultures. I keep coming back to this question of are we dealing with a platform problem, a culture, sociological problem. As someone who studies the Platform Aspect of this, i want your answer to this . My answer is Social Media reflects society as well as shaping it which is a circular argument that you dont want to hear but i believe thats where we are. The tools were all given to create and shape messages, we use the tools to share the things that resonate with us. We incorporate their Opinion And Share it. We are not only taking inputs from Social Media, its that we in turn are putting our own content out there. So its really both. I guess finally the question is are there things that youve encountered in your research about how to deal with the Virality And Spread about things that are wrong about vaccines . Thats where we get at questions of what should the interventions be . There are thorny, complicated questions that go along with that. A lot of the earliest interventions were not related to covid. Covid is new. We dont have we all saw in real time scientists develop an understanding how it moves, how it was transmitted, what the vaccines are going to be able to do. How efficacious the vaccines are. The early crackdowns were against misinformation spreads about very routine, longestablished, deeply successful Vaccination Interventions like the measles vaccines. What we have to contend with now is an environment in which more people than ever are paying attention to the questions because the Covid Vaccine really directly impacts all of us. Our friends and community and Loved Ones in a Way School vaccines didnt. The platforms have a higher amount of wrong information from spreading. Its not entirely clear what is exactly wrong or right. Thats a pretty significant challenge. What were starting to see is moderation doesnt have to be a binary. It doesnt have to be moved up or down. You can do things like introduce friction into sharing. You can put up labels to help people get better informatiOn And you can surface higher caliber, more reputable surfaces. Renee, thank you for sharing your information. Appreciate it. Thank you. From vaccine hesitant to getting the first shot of the vaccine. What it means for the number two republican of the house to take the plunge and what some are doing to fight the virus in their states after this. Mio. Water tastes like, well. Water. So we fixed it. Mio. Washed your hands a Lot Today . Probably like 40 times. Hands feel dry . Like sandpaper. Introducing new dove handwash, with 5 x moisturizer blend. Removes germs in seconds, moisturizes for hours. Soft, smooth. New dove handwash. [ ] looking to repair dry, sdamaged hair without weighing it down . Try pantene daily moisture renewal conditioner. Its Colorsafe Formula uses smart conditioners to microtarget damage helping to repair hair without weighing it down. Try pantene. 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So theres no inherent reason conceptually that having Conservative Politics making cuts to the capital Gains Tax Rate should tightly correlate not wanting to get vaccinated against a deadly respiratory virus. There has been a correlation in the world, not just in the u. S. , across the world, talk about it a little bit more at some point. So its a big deal when prominent members of The American right, conservatives, say, i got vaccinated and you should, too. Steve scalise whos the number two member of the house Republican Caucus In Louisiana had not gotten vaccinated. He got shot and spent a long time in the hospital and recovered from that. Thank goodness. There he is today, Steve Scalise saying he was getting vaccinated. Heres what he had to say about why. Especially with the Delta Variant becoming a lot more aggressive and seeing another spike it was a good time to do it. When you talk to people who run hospitals in New Orleans or other states, 90 of people in hospital with Delta Variant have not been vaccinated. It is great to see Steve Scalise doing that. I hope more follow. Hes not the only one. There are tons of republicans carrying this message. Missouri Republican State senator from missouri State Senator Lincoln Huff is one who has gotten vaccinated. He joins me now. Great to have you on, senator. Tell me a little bit about what things are like in greene county, missouri. Sure. Weve seen chris, thanks for having me on. Weve seen an abnormal i would say spike in this Delta Variant in our community. That can lead to a lot of things. Springfield is a hub. What we have seen with that is complication of our Health Care system. We have two major hospitals and both of them, as you just mentioned, have a number of cases of this new Delta Variant that are essentially clogging up, hamstringing our Health Care systems in a very preventible way given the fact that in my state almost every individual that is eligible for a vaccine lives within five miles of a Facility Or Site where they could have that vaccine administered. Will you tell me about your own Vaccine Experience . When did you decide . How did you decide . How did that go . I talked with my Health Care provider. Im fortunate enough. I have two brothers that are doctors. As soon as it was my turn and i was eligible to receive the vaccine, i received it at the Boone County public Health Center in missouri. I was in the legislature at the time. I went over to our Boone County public Health Department and they gave me a shot and i got my Booster Shot of the second dose later on, three, four weeks later. So what are you hearing from folks in your community that, you know, are republicans like yourself, conservatives, share your politics, are you encountering folks resistant to the vaccine . What are those conversations like when you talk to them . Well, i think theres a lot of Misinformation Being spread around. I guess the plea that i would make not just in my community but across our country and quite frankly across the world is talk to a trusted Health Care providers. Talk to your family physicians. Talk to members of the medical community that you do trust and get their opiniOn And if you have hess ten sis, go to those providers and ask for their medical condition on that. I would ask and maybe strongly encourage that we shy away from just looking at Social Media and things like that and perpetuating information that maybe is baseless. Missouri State Senator lincoln hough. Thank you for your message and coming on our program. I appreciate it. Thanks, chris. 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Biz markie died after a decade long battle with type 2 diabetes. He was 57. Dmx, black Rob And Shock g died in a span of a few weeks, they were 50, 52 and 57 respectively. Last october one of my alltime favorite Rappers M. F. Doom died at the age of 49. Now you can say, well, musicians die too young all the time, thats true. The right Rapper Life Cycle burns out quick. This is also about disparities that have long been documented. Earlier this year The American medical association noted the countrys pervasive Health Inequities had a tragic tally of 74,000 excess deaths among black people compared to white people each year between 2016 and 2018. Even more stark when you look at just black menace all of these rappers were. The average Life Expectancy for a white male is 75 years old. The average Life Expectancy for a black male is about 68 years old. Thats a 7year difference. When we talk about structural racism, you know, in critical race theory, the Big Bugaboo right now, thats what were talking about. It is worth noting black men get considerably less years on the planet than white men. When youre asked what structural racism means, thats what it means. It means a society that takes years off peoples lives, the only thing we have, because of A Million different things that have built up over hundreds of years, produced a system where black people are more exposed to violence, more exposed to toxins, more exposed to health risks, and face more barriers for treatment and On And On And on. Its not an abstractiOn And hurt feelings, it is literally life and death. Racism kills. It takes lives too early. Every damn day. Biz markie like so many others died at a tragically young age. Like others left behind a rich legacy that went under appreciated until it was too late. Biz and others deserve more. 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Id like to be clear about how people voted on the president , affirming the affirming the election of joe biden, is not a criterion for service, that doesnt matter. Reporter what is the Speaker Nancy pelosi says she is considering allowing five more republicans, all picked by Minority Leader kevin mccarthy, to serve On The House Select Committee to investigate the January 6th insurrection. Even though three of those five voted against Seating Electors from arizona and pennsylvania, meaning they essentially voted against democracy and the Peoples Choice for president and in favor of the big lie. One of the picks, congressman Jim Jordan of ohio, even got on the floor of the house on January 6th to explicitly question president bidens victory. President trump increases vote with africanamerican and hispanic american, Won Ohio by eight, iowa by eight and florida by three, got 11 Million more votes than in 2016 and house republicans won 27 of 27 tossup races but somehow the guy who never left his house wins the election . Yeah, we won 27 out of 27 races, but somehow Donald Trump lost . How could that be . Is he just some sort of a Novelist Psycho Path that The American people rejected even if they were voting in other republicans . Thats the guy, Jim Jordan, who could end up investigating the insurrection, the guy who made his name famously Har Anning Hillary Clinton Over Benghazi and defending Donald Trump from impeachment twice with neri a Suit Jacket to be found. Today we got a preview of what he would be like on the January 6th select committee. Tell us about your new assignment on the January 6th commission, sir. Well, i mean we know what this is about. This is impeachment round three for the democrats. They for five years have been going after President Trump, so in some ways you cant blame them, you know, because what else are they going to talk about . That being said, house Speaker Nancy pelosi says she is not ruling out vetoing mccarthys pick for the select committee. We will see. Olivia troye serves as adviser to mike pence, now director of the republican Accountability Project and she joins me now. Olivia, you know, twothirds i think the republican caucus voted not to seat the electors, to object to the seating of electors, but it leaves plenty of members who voted to do the right thing, including chip roy, who is quite conservative. What do you think about Pelosis Position there shouldnt be a criterion on that single vote . No, i think that anybody who voted to not certify the Election Results should not sit on this committee. I think, first and foremost, that should be a disqualifier. I think it is important to really respect our democratic process, and, you know, the undermining of the democratic process is what led us to January 6th to begin with. It was the likes of jim Jordans Platform and his rhetoric and others who led to the inciting of that moment and the mob attacking the u. S. Capitol. Thats what this committee will get to the bottom of and will investigate, it is a Factfinding Mission first and foremost. This is a national security investigation. Weve seen the videos. We have seen the footage. We are seeing the reporting coming out on court cases, but we still dont have a stepbystep factual account of how this came to be, what led to it, what happened, what were the failures, who was involved. Thats what this committee is going to try to get to. But the last person that needs to be sitting on this committee is Jim Jordan. It seems to me theres two issues here. One is a conflict issue. So lets just talk about that first, which is that to your point when you are talking about how we came to this moment, you know, it is the big lie, and we should say that jordan did the kind of Josh Hawley it is very similar to what you see on fox, the vaccine, this sort of, like, trolling, just asking questions, like how is it possible . You know, that kind of thing as opposed to saying, you know, the Nuttier Ghost of Hugo Chavez was changing the votes inside The Machine in arizona like the president s liars, but that conflict just seems unavoidable if you are looking to the runup to January 6th. You have to talk about the mythology created by the president around this that you were a party to. Thats exactly it. Look, this Movement Isnt going away. It remains out there, right. People still believe this election was stolen. It is leading to all sorts of endeavors going on across the country right now, under the guise of election integrity. We have that going on. We have threats against election officials happening, that were worried about in upcoming elections. This is ongoing. Not only that, these domestic terrorism groups that were in bed with all of these situations that happened that day on January 6th, this is a movement thats metastasizing across the country. This is something that we need to get to the bottom of. This is radicalization here on u. S. Soil, and to me, when you look at this investigation from a national security perspective, i look at Jim Jordan and i think about the 9 11 commission. Now, would you appoint one of Osama Bin ladens lieutenants or deputies really to serve on the 9 11 commission . Would you have done that to get to a Factfinding Mission . Because thats how i view this. Because appointing Jim Jordan and letting him serve on this committee is basically obscuring, is doing a coverup, and it open secures the facts and it prevents us from getting to the bottom of this. It gives him a platform to pull his usual shenanigans where he will attack officials, he will attack law enforcement. He has done it already on January 6th hearings. He has done this already beforehand where he went off on cancel culture and he has attacked Chris Wray and others. This cannot be allowed to happen. Yeah. I mean you know this and i know this obviously. The Scale And Scope of 9 11 is extremely different than what we saw here in terms of the dealt toll and the like. Absolutely. But the lack of yeah, right. I know you know that, i just wanted to make that very clear. To me theres also the issue about, like, is that vote to me my belief, and i think it is the belief that should supersede partisan or ideological difference, that vote is the thing that places you across a line of taboo, and i think it is true in terms of Corporate America and giving. Like there was something deeply aberrant about voting to take away the presidency from the person that won, that that line has to be enforced. It seems if you are not enforcing it from the Speakers Position you dont think it is that kind of line, which maybe they dont, but i tend to think it. I think you do too, right . I think so, absolutely. Look, there are other people to pick out there. Why not put Adam Kinzinger . Why not have him serve on the committee instead . She can say, thanks, but no thanks, but we will replace him with a republican like Adam Kinzinger who will help us investigate this and get to the bottom of this. Olivia troye, thank you for joining us this evening. Thanks for having me. That is All In on this tuesday night. The Rachel Maddow Show starts right now. Good evening. Good even, chris. Much appreciated. Thank you at home for joining us this hour. Happy to have you here. Early on in the last presidency, on this show we used to try to keep up with the turnover, the almost unbelievable amount of turnover in the Trump Administration. We put up on screen like all together the names or the titles of each new Trump Administration official who had quit or been fired, and we started off being able to do that on a single screen. But as the number kept growing, we had to move ultimately to a Largesize Wall Panel because it wouldnt fit in our normal small