Thats an outrageous claim, sir. And i resent it. What we know about the Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/fbi-investigation'>Fbi Investigation of Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/donald-trump'>Donald Trumps Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/postmaster-general'>Postmaster General. Plus, Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/nbc-news'>Nbc News confirms a federal investigation of Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/congressman-matt-gaetz'>Congressman Matt Gaetz. What does it mean, now that the Biden Administration says it will treat Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/ransomware-attack'>Ransomware Attacks as a Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/nationalsecurity-tHreat'>Nationalsecurity THreat . And todays big announcement on americas actions to help vaccinate the world. Today, we are announcing our plan for sharing the first Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/25-million'>25 Million u. S. Vaccines with the world. All in starts right now. Good evening, from Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/new-york'>New York, im cHris hayes. It is hard to tell what is more dangerous to Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/american-democracy'>American Democracy, at the moment. The big lie, or the big delusion. The key question emerging from the alternate reality the right has been constructing, for years, is what to do with the lies the people will, themselves, into believing . Now, that question has loomed over us a long time. It presented itself, for one instance, when republican senator, james inhofe, of oklahoma, a famousclimate crank, brought a snowball on the Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/senate-floor'>Senate Floor as proof there was no Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/global-warming'>Global Warming. And ask yourself, was inhofe lying . The snow was proof there was no Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/global-warming'>Global Warming . Or was he delusional . Actually believes that . And which is worse . And does it even matter . The alternate reality on the right has gotten crazy and more intense, over time. Was cultivated around climate, for a while. And then, Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/president-barack'>President Barack Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/obamas-birth-certificate'>Obamas Birth Certificate and voter fraud. Remember, the Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/acorn-panic'>Acorn Panic . And it grew even more intense, of course, around the cult of Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/donald-trump'>Donald Trump and the Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/subsidiary-cult'>Subsidiary Cult of qanon. And the damned shall be punished and exiled and the saved shall inherit the earth. The big delusion, believing in the alternate reality, has now become the unifying Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/litma-test'>Litma Test around the 2020 election for the republican party. That delusion, that lie, whichever it is, is a sustained assault on americandemocratic legitimacy on all frontals. It is being engineered in part by the discredited loser, whose thoughts are so lame, so boring, so basic, that he shut down his blog after less than a month because no one would read it. Of course, why would they . Trump ordered his team, tuesday, to put the blog out of its misery, advisers said. And yet, in the same way that, say, Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/cult-members'>Cult Members might follow a selfdescribed profit who seems like an obvious crank to outsiders. The people inside the movement are true believers. And thats where we are, right now. Except, the movement is one of two of americas two major Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/political-parties'>Political Parties. Onehalf of the viablepolitical coalitions we have. According to multiple reports, Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/donald-trump'>Donald Trump believes he will be, quote, reinstated as president by august. That is, of course, flatly ludicrous. It is not that different from saying that the world will end on august 1st. Or that i will turn into a dragon on fathers day. It is driving the sustained assault on our democracy. Yesterday, we told you about the diehard Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/trump-supporter'>Trump Supporter in the pennsylvania state senate, doug mastriano, he is an elected official and he traveled to arizona to learn about their ongoing, ridiculous, toxic Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/ballot-audit'>Ballot Audit because he wants to bring it back to his home state. Do you plan to replicate this process in pennsylvania . If if we do an audit in pennsylvania and we got a lot of issues in pennsylvania. We need to do an audit. And this is the process to follow right here. I mean, this is the model. This effort to, um, Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/reverse-engineer'>Reverse Engineer an overturning the election is starting to spread. And the exile disgraced expresident is following along closely. The washington. Reporter that obsession is leading him to believe another ludicrous figure, the maga pillow guy. Remember him . Who is taking credit for plapting the seeds of the idea of the august restoration, which to be fair, he kind of did. The election of 2020 is going byebye. It was an attack by other countries, communism coming in. I dont know what they are going to do after they pull it down. But hang on. Hang on a second. Go ahead. Donald trump will be back in office in august. Okay. Here i am, midway tHrough my monologue. It just its almost too ridiculous to describe. To even say out loud in front of the camera to you. Okay. And i believe i can fly. But this is where we are. I mean, this is where we are. The influence of this figure. Again, who has no formal power anymore. He cant even sustain a blog that people read. Has become a kind of avatar. A stand in for a bunch of impulses that already existed. That are so profoundly disconnected from the rest of american politics. I mean people in the republican party and Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/conservative-movement'>Conservative Movement are still beating down the door to get his approval as he slips further into his dangerous delusion. Having already stuck what could have been a nearfatal blow to Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/american-democracy'>American Democracy because if you want to have a future in one of the two again, we have got two major Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/political-parties'>Political Parties and if you want to have a future in one of them in this country, everyone understands you have to suck up, even if that means running on a platform of Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/donald-trump'>Donald Trump is right. My father is a huge loser. Thanks, also, to texasland commissioner, Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/george-p.'>George P. Bush, for being here. Wheres george . Come here, george. This is the only bush that likes me. This is the only one. Can we come here. I want to meet you. Hes a friend of my son. And hes a great guy. Truly, this is the bush that got it right. So, thats george prescott bush. He is the son of jeb bush. Now, hes got big ambitions, right . The younger bush is now running for Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/texas-attorney-general'>Texas Attorney General and his campaign is literally handing out Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/beer-koozys'>Beer Koozys emblazoned with that moment. Do you remember how Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/donald-trump'>Donald Trump destroyed your father in the 2016 election . Lowenergy jeb. Hi, im Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/george-p.'>George P. Bush, my father absolutely sucks. Please, vote for me. I mean, i guess, you know, its politics. You got to do what you got to do but oof. I keep thinking people are going to hit their levels of humiliation. But i dont know, maybe, they all got a weird fetish for it. Now, of course, as we watch this develop, the question is what the other half of viablepolitical coalitions in the country do. What do democrats do . What does the Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/daytoday-functioning'>Daytoday Functioning of american Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/democracy-look'>Democracy Look like under this Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/dark-cloud'>Dark Cloud when they were entrusted by the majority to make it function . And there are a lot of pressing, normal things that need to get done. Fighting climate change. Repairing infrastructure. Creating a kind of Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/care-economy'>Care Economy that works for people. The infrastructure bill. There are, also, the abnormal lengths that must be gone to, in parallel to safeguard Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/american-democracy'>American Democracy against the wickedness of this growing delusion. Because the idea the election was going to be overturned for Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/donald-trump'>Donald Trump on Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/january-6th'>January 6th. Yeah, that was also delusional. And look what happened. Democratic congressman Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/james-clyburn'>James Clyburn of Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/south-carolina'>South Carolina is the housemajority whip, and he joins me, now, by phone. Congressman, thank you so much for your time tonight. I guess, i start with the question of, are democrats doing enough, at this moment . Focused enough, on this moment, on the the actions necessary to safeguard Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/american-democracy'>American Democracy against the assaults we are continuing to see against it . Well, thank you very much for having me. I dont think anybody in the country is doing enough right now. I think that there this kind of situation, is something the country has never been faced with. And nobody expected to ever be faced with anything like this. I applaud Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/president-biden'>President Biden for doing the things that are necessary to try and reach out across the aisle. But seems as if the other side has decided that they are not going to reciprocate. I applaud Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/nancy-pelosi'>Nancy Pelosi for doing tremendous work when she put together this piece of legislation. And mr. Katko, in a bipartisan way, sent from the house over to the senate. But Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/mitch-mcconnell'>Mitch Mcconnell said do me a personal favor, and dont vote for this. We need to get to the bottom of what is this insurrection was all about. The american people, more than 70 of the american people, want to find out exactly what this is all about. So that we can do the things necessary to safeguard this democracy. Yes, we are making a lot of attempts. But we arent accomplishing much because he cannot get any kind of support from the other side of the aisle. I applaud those members of the Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/homeland-security-committee'>Homeland Security Committee who worked in a bipartisan way to produce a very good piece of lemg legislation. And Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/mitch-mcconnell'>Mitch Mcconnell has decided he is more loyal to Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/donald-trump'>Donald Trump than he is to the constitution that he was sworn to uphold. So so, there is a number of aspects to this. The Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/january-6th'>January 6th commission in terms of figuring out really what happened in a kind of comprehensive, systematic fashion. Issuing a report. There is safeguarding Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/american-democracy'>American Democracy against incursions that are happening at the state level. There is two pieces of legislation. There is for the people act, h. R. 1, the Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/john-lewis'>John Lewis it voting Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/rights-act'>Rights Act, Hr 4, if i am not mistaken. There is a proposal to restore the section of the voting Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/rights-act'>Rights Act that was gutted. These are all floating around. But they have all sort of Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/hit-a-roadblock'>Hit A Roadblock in the senate. And partially, because all of those would need a clear a filibuster. Joe manchin, among others, thinks there is a viable means to create a bipartisan compromise for it. And i want to play, for you, what he was saying today about the infrastructure bill. Similar kind of thinking about working with republicans to get the votes necessary. Take a listen. I want to get your response to it. Are you ready to go it alone with just democrats . I dont think you should. I really do. At all . I dont think right now, basically, we need to be bipartisan. If we cant become i always said this. I have never seen a pothole that had a Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/republican-or-democrat'>Republican Or Democrat name on it. It will bust your tire, i dont care who you are. What do you think about senator Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/manchins-approach'>Manchins Approach . And what it spells for these different parts of the agenda . Well, i agree with senator manchin, that its better not to go it alone. But i cannot understand him feeling that, if the only way to get it done is to go it alone, then you should not get it done. If thats what he is saying, something is amiss with his thinking. This country has massive needs. Bridges are crumbling all around us. This aint about potholes. This is about bridges. This is about broadband. We have got children, who are about to lose a second year of school because they cannot get broadband in their homes. And so, if you cant get broadband in a bipartisan way. And we got the democrats to do it. Then, we ought to go it alone. Its not the first time that something happened for the benefit of the country and did not get any republicans to vote for it. We couldnt get them to vote for the the affordable care act. Should we have just left that out because we couldnt get bipartisan support . Come on, Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/joe-manchin'>Joe Manchin, lets get real. Congressman Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/james-clyburn'>James Clyburn, joining us on the phone. Of course, member of house leadership. Represents district in Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/south-carolina'>South Carolina. Congressman, thank you so much for your time tonight. Well, thank you very much for having me. All right. I want to bring in former democratic Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/senator-doug'>Senator Doug jones of alabama. Senator, i wanted to talk to you because i thought, well, you have got an interesting perspective. When you were in that senate caucus, you were in a very sort of small category of senate democrats representing states that, you know, republicans carry by 20 or 30 points. From that perch and from that experience, what do you make of the question, now, the sort of fork in the road for democrats . About which road they travel in pursuing the the the bidendemocratic agenda . You know, cHris, well, first of all, thanks for having me. Its good to be back with you, again. Look. I dont think we are at that fork, just yet. Folks have to remember, were only four and a half months into this administration. A lot has happened. And the focus of the Biden Administration was on the pandemic. Getting the economy going back again. Vaccines, getting shots in arms. That has been a main main focus. Now, we are looking at h. R. 1. We are looking at Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/voting-rights'>Voting Rights. We are looking at making sure that folks have an infrastructure bill. Progress is being made on infrastructure and its, in part, because, i think, folks are holding out for bipartisanship. I think Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/voting-rights'>Voting Rights is a little bit different issue. What we are seeing happening across the country is really attack on democracy. And i at some point, i think, very soon, democrats are going to have to decide. Whether or not congress can be the backstop for this. And i am hoping that they will do that. But, cHris, let me say this. You know, as we talk about Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/jim-crow-laws'>Jim Crow Laws and we talk about Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/voting-rights'>Voting Rights. H. R. 1, which is a great bill, the Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/john-lewis-voting'>John Lewis Voting Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/rights-act'>Rights Act. All, great bills. But if you want to stop this immediate assault, this immediate assault on Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/voting-rights'>Voting Rights, then you got to narrow this bill a little Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/bit-and-focus'>Bit And Focus on stopping that assault. There is a lot in those other bills that, really, will are are are good bills. Good things pieces of legislation. Lets focus on getting these thing standards, you know, Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/uniform-standards'>Uniform Standards around country. And i believe and i think Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/joe-manchin'>Joe Manchin and Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/kyrsten-sinema'>Kyrsten Sinema believe if you can focus on that, you can get enough votes. But if you cant if you cant on that issue, then i am absolutely congress has got to be the backstop of what is going on in this country across the country. So, you said a few very interesting things there. I just want to sort of follow up on. So, i think the conceptual distinction, in your mind, between the infrastructure bill. Where you think maybe a deal is strikable on these sort of more core issues on democracy, right . Theres no real deal thats going to be struck on h. R. 1 or 4, right . Thats for the people. But that, maybe, there is a place for a narrower deal. And i should say that Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/joe-manchin'>Joe Manchin and Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/lisa-murkowski'>Lisa Murkowski wrote that letter to their senate colleagues saying lets restore part of the Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/voting-rights'>Voting Rights about the Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/john-roberts-court'>John Roberts Court struck down for no reason other than their own whim, essentially. But i just dont see ten votes for that in republicans. I feel like i am losing my mind. Maybe, im wrong but you worked with these people. You were in the u. S. Senate. What incentive do they have to restore the voting Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/rights-act'>Rights Act to create safeguards against their comrades in the states who are making these attacks on voting . Well, cHris, thats only one piece of that. The story restoring the voting Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/rights-act'>Rights Act and the the preclearance. And i dont think there is possible its possible i dont know what all is going on behind the scenes. But i do think that it is possible to get ten votes. The voting Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/rights-act'>Rights Act was passed, almost unanimously, in the last congress the last time it was renewed. And so, i think there is opportunity. And remember, folks, that this bill was passed, initially, with bipartisan support. And its been renewed with bipartisan support. Now, the second thing, though, cHris, is that we keep talking and we hear so many people talking about the election. Whats been called the big lie. The election was stolen. The election fraud. Well, if you want to stop this. If republicans really want to get at this, lets have Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/uniform-standards'>Uniform Standards. We have federal elections everytwo years in this country. We need to have a Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/uniform-set'>Uniform Set of standards on early voting, mailin voting, all of those absentee voting, all of those things where people think that is fraught with peril. Lets get some Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/uniform-standards'>Uniform Standards instead of this hodgepodge from around the country. And if folks focus on that, i do think there is an opportunity to get ten votes. Because i dont believe that there is that what we are hearing from all these things going around the country is representative of the entire 90 of the folks in the senate. I think that there may be opportunities there. I really do believe that. Well, thats thats a really interesting perspective. And some optimism, which i am always in the market for from a former Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/senator-doug'>Senator Doug jones of alabama. Thank you so much. My pleasure, cHris. All right. Trump mega donor, Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/louis-dejoy'>Louis Dejoy, remember him . He is still serving, to this day, right now, right, as the Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/postmaster-general'>Postmaster General. Despite his efforts to basically gut the postal service in the runup to the election. In fact, you may recall this exchange from last year. Congress brought dejoy in, right, to find out what the heck was with the mail slowing down and also his fundraising for trump happened to come up. Did you pay back several of your top executives for contributing to Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/trumps-campaign'>Trumps Campaign by bonusing or rewarding them . Thats an outrageous claim, sir, and i resent it. Im just asking a question. The answer is no. Outrageous, cries Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/louis-dejoy'>Louis Dejoy. How dare you, sir . Do you know who doesnt think it was such an outrageous question . Apparently, the fbi. That story, is next. , is next. [sfx kids laughing] [sfx bikes passing] [sfx fire truck siren] onstar, we see them. Okay. Mother and child in vehicle. Mother is unable to exit the vehicle. Injuries are unknown. Thank you, onstar. My son, is he okay . Your sons fine. Thank you. There was something in the road. Its okay. Youre safe now. [tv announcer] Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/come-on'>Come On down to our Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/appliance-superstore'>Appliance Superstore where weve got the best deals on refrigerators, microwaves, Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/gas-ranges'>Gas Ranges and grills. And if youre looking for. [drum Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/beat-and-keyboard'>Beat And Keyboard typing] [keyboard typing] [trumpet] [keyboard typing] [sfx psst psst] allergies dont have to be scary. Spraying flonase daily stops your body from overreacting to allergens all season long. Psst psst all good Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/announcer-xfinity'>Announcer Xfinity wants to send you to Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/universal-orlando'>Universal Orlando resorts tHree incredible theme parks. Where you could feel the rush of the hunt on jurassic world velocicoaster, opening Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/june-10th'>June 10th plus, youll stay steps away from the action at universals cabana bay beach resort. To enter just say Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/universal-parks'>Universal Parks into your xfinity voice remote, or go to xfinityadventures. Com for your chance to win one of Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/donald-trump'>Donald Trumps first active assaults on our democracy began last summer in the leadup to the election. Remember, we were in the middle of the pandemic. There was concern about going to Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/polling-stations'>Polling Stations to vote and so there was a flurry of people trying to vote by mail. And many states trying to make voting by mail as accessible as possible. Now, that prospect of Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/making-voting'>Making Voting easier did not set well with Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/donald-trump'>Donald Trumps administration, who railed against Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/mail-voting'>Mail Voting every chance they got. And so, that attack on democracy appeared to manifest itself in the dismantling of the way that people would vote by mail. The Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/post-office'>Post Office destroying the way they sent their ballot. They would get and send their ballots. The great Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/mail-slowdown'>Mail Slowdown of 2020 was executed by Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/trumps-postmaster'>Trumps Postmaster general, Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/louis-dejoy'>Louis Dejoy. He is a wealthy businessman and prolific republican donor who contributed over 1. 5 Million to Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/trumps-campaign'>Trumps Campaigns in 2016 and 2020. Now, before he was named Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/postmaster-general'>Postmaster General, he was named one of the tHree national Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/deputy-finance'>Deputy Finance chairmen for the republican national committee, along with, drum roll, Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/michael-cohen'>Michael Cohen and elliot, both of whom, have since pleaded guilty to federal charges. After taking office, in june, dejoy enacted a number of new policies, including eliminating overtime for postal workers, limiting number of mail trucks, removing Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/sorting-machines'>Sorting Machines from postal facilities including in Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/battleground-states'>Battleground States like pennsylvania, michigan, florida. Then, in september 2020, the Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/washington-post'>Washington Post reported at his previous company, dejoy had urged his employees to write checks to republican candidates and attend expensive fundraisers. Only to inflate their bonuses to make up for the donations. Quote, he asked employees for money. We gave him the money, and then he reciprocated by giving us big bonuses, said david young, dejoys longtime director of Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/human-resources'>Human Resources who had access to payroll records. It was Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/something-dejoy'>Something Dejoy was asked about in a congressional hearing last august, before that Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/post-story'>Post Story broke. Did you pay back several of your top executives for contributing to Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/trumps-campaign'>Trumps Campaign by bonusing or rewarding them . Thats an outrageous claim, sir, and i resent it. Im just asking a question. The answer is no. I am fully aware of i am fully aware of legal Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/campaign-contribution'>Campaign Contributions. You notice, he is blinking a lot, in that last part . Just something that struck me. Last summer, Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/louis-dejoy'>Louis Dejoy testified under oath. He was fully aware how legal Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/campaign-contribution'>Campaign Contributions work. Now, today, the Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/washington-post'>Washington Post published another scoop. Guess what . The fbi is investigating Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/louis-dejoy'>Louis Dejoy, in connection with his pastpolitical fundraising according to the report and i quote. Fbi agents in recent weeks, interviewed current and former employees of dejoy and the business. Prosecutors also issued a subpoena to dejoy, himself, for information. Now, a spokesman for dejoy said mr. Dejoy has learned the Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/department-of-justice'>Department Of Justice is investigating Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/campaign-contribution'>Campaign Contributions made by employees who worked for him when he was in the private sector. Hes always been scrupulous in his adherence to Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/campaign-contribution'>Campaign Contribution laws and has never, knowingly, violated them. Knowingly. Jacob is a Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/business-reporter'>Business Reporter at the Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/washington-post'>Washington Post who broke the news the postmaster Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/generals-investigation-today'>Generals Investigation Today and he joins me, now. Jacob, what do we know about the scope of this investigation . How long its ongoing . And where its at . What we know is that these people, these current and former employees of dejoys former company, have been interviewed in the past about two weeks to ten days. And that the Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/postmaster-general'>Postmaster Generals personal spokesperson confirmed to us, this morning, that he had been personally contacted by the fbi. That takes this investigation, from covert. So keeping him under wraps. To overt. Just asking people, in broad daylight. And then, the fact that they have subpoenaed the Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/postmaster-general'>Postmaster General tells us just how far along they have gotten and what they think they found. It was striking when the news broke today, we went back to look at the Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/august-reporting'>August Reporting and that Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/jim-cooper'>Jim Cooper exchange. I mean, these allegations werent hiding anywhere. They were published in the, you know, one of the toptwo papers in america. And apparently, nothing happened until fairly recently . Do we know the timeline . We know well, i mean, lets go back a little bit further. I mean, Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/louis-dejoy'>Louis Dejoy is appointed the Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/postmaster-general'>Postmaster General in may of 2020. And immediately, like any journalist does, you start Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/making-calls'>Making Calls to find out what his past Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/business-dealings'>Business Dealings have been like. Maybe, theyve been great. And literally, in the first ten minutes of Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/phone-calls'>Phone Calls i would have with former employees. They would say [ inaudible ] logistics. Were encouraged to attend these fundraisers. To make donations to his favored candidates. And he would make you whole for it. So its not like these allegations have been are new. Lets put it that way. In terms of the timeline here, we think we go back to august. Which is when dejoy testifies. Shortly thereafter, the story in the Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/washington-post'>Washington Post that i helped report breaks in september. And the Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/house-oversight-committee'>House Oversight Committee says its going to launch its own investigation. And talking to sources today, that doesnt appear to have gone very far. The fbi picking up the baton, now, is significant. Just to be clear On What the law is here. I mean, there are lots of places, say, whiteshoe Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/law-firms'>Law Firms in washington, d. C. That have a culture of a lot of political giving, right . They have a lot of they will even have events at the Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/law-firm-conference'>Law Firm Conference office. And its sort of expected that you are giving. Thats fine. I mean, maybe not the ideal way to run but its fine legally. What you absolutely cannot do, like bright, bright, Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/bright-red'>Bright Red line, is reimburse a person and essentially use them as a funnel to exceed the contribution limits. Yeah. Its whats called a straw donor scheme. And you know this, cHris. Its the Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/campaign-finance-equivalent'>Campaign Finance Equivalent of asking your older brother to go to the Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/liquor-store'>Liquor Store for you to buy you a sixpack because you cant get it. And this is a common thing that Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/law-enforcement'>Law Enforcement officials look at. Not just in campaign finance. But in in firearms. I mean, the scheme is a very basic part of an investigation. Yeah. Its its basically criminalcampaign Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/finance-violation'>Finance Violation 101. Like, on the first page, if you were giving a briefing on someone on things to avoid. Like, getting someone else to donate and reimbursing them would probably be on the first page. Yeah. That would be like you said, brightred underlined. These are the legal limits of what you can and cannot donate. And also, please dont coopt people to donate for you and thats whats being investigated here. And whats striking to me, just to put two and two together here is that, you know, this is a brightredline thing. And what you are telling me as a reporter, you would call people at this company. And they would be telling you this, volunteering it in the firstten minutes. Like, its its those two things are both striking because this is this is like a flagrantly legal thing, if true. Yeah, it was striking to me, back then, as well. And, you know, Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/jim-cooper'>Jim Cooper asked that question in the august hearing. This was something that i had been reporting and my colleagues have been reporting for months before that on end. To try to nail that down. And and so, you know, thats why we were so enthusiastic about being able to do our job and do the work that that this requires and to take it a step further today. And unearth that the fbis been looking into it, as well. Jacob, great reporting. Great reporting then, great reporting now. Its a moving story. We will have you back to update us. Thanks a lot. Thanks, cHris. All right. Next, a new investigation into Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/congressman-matt-gaetz'>Congressman Matt Gaetz. On whether he obstructed justice. Gosh, the fbi is busy, arent they . When he spoke to a witness connected to his sextrafficking investigation. That the details on that, after this. Details on that, after this like you, my hands are everything to me. But i was diagnosed with dupuytrens contracture. And it got to the point where things i took for granted got tougher to do. Thought surgery was my only option. Turns out i was wrong. So when a Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/hand-specialist'>Hand Specialist told me about nonsurgical treatments, it was a total game changer. Like you, my hands have a lot more to do. Learn more at factsonhand. Com today. [music and Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/sound-effects'>Sound Effects played in reverse] this. Is our shot. The covid19 vaccines are ready. And so is walgreens, with Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/pharmacy-experts'>Pharmacy Experts ready to make it easy for you to get it safely, for free. Because this is our shot. At getting back together. Its been a little while since we heard about the federal probe into republican Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/congressman-matt-gaetz'>Congressman Matt Gaetz of florida. When last we left him, just a few weeks ago, gaetzs associate, remember him, former Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/florida-tax'>Florida Tax official, joel greenberg, pictured there with Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/matt-gaetz'>Matt Gaetz and Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/roger-stone'>Roger Stone. Pleaded guilty to six charges, including Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/sex-trafficking'>Sex Trafficking of a minor. Agreed to fully cooperate with federal investigators. Now, thats Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/bad-news'>Bad News for congressman gaetz, who, himself, is under investigation for apparently, among other things, Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/sex-trafficking'>Sex Trafficking that same minor. Investigators are looking into whether he had a sexual relationship with a 17yearold, and paid for her to travel with him. Gaetz has not been charged with any crimes. Hes repeatedly denied any wrongdoing. But now, he is facing, apparently, a new problem. Politico reporting that federal prosecutors are examining whether he obstructed justice during a phone call. Prosecutor in both the southern district of Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/new-york'>New York and the northern district of california, and she joins me now. I am always curious about how, kind of, the the crime and the coverup relate to each other, in terms of obstruction investigations, right . So, this is some underlying misconduct that might be criminal. And then, there is some conduct after the fact to obscure it. How do prosecutors treat those in this kind of investigation . Hi, cHris. Thanks so much for having me on tonight. As you mentioned in your leadin, the reporting is that representative gaetz is being looked into for Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/obstruction-of-justice'>Obstruction Of Justice. Now, oftentimes, we think of crimes, like substantive crimes. ChildHref='https://vimarsana.com/news/sex-trafficking'>Sex Trafficking, for example. Prostitution cases. Those are the sort of substantive crimes that we typically think of when we think of criminal cases. But Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/obstruction-of-justice'>Obstruction Of Justice charges are equally important. Its important to know that those can be charged as a standalone crime. Meaning, that, even if investigators, in this case, do not develop enough information to charge representative gaetz with the Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/sex-crimes'>Sex Crimes that theyre reportedly looking into. They, still, could charge him with Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/obstruction-of-justice'>Obstruction Of Justice. And those charges are incredibly serious. Under the sentencing guidelines, which are the guidelines that federal judges look to for guidance in how to sentence crimes. Obstruction of justice faces a minimum Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/guidelines-range'>Guidelines Range of 15to21 months in jail. So, they really are quite serious, if proven true. Yeah. That that the pattern you just identified there. Or the the sort of precedent, right . Which is what we saw largely in the Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/roger-stone'>Roger Stone prosecution. Stone was it wasnt obstruction but it was it was perjury, right . That he perjured himself under oath. That he also lied to congress. And stone was convicted. Unanimously, by a jury of his peers. He, then, was, you know, sentenced and then he was pardoned by the president. So, theres some there is some precedent here. I want to just read the the what investigators apparently are zeroing in on and get your reaction to it, which is this. The Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/obstruction-inquiry'>Obstruction Inquiry stems from a phone call, a witness, some witness, whos been talking to federal prosecutors had with Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/gaetzs-exgirlfriend'>Gaetzs Exgirlfriend at some point during the conversation. The exgirlfriend Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/patched-gaetz'>Patched Gaetz into the call, sources said. Well, its unknown, exactly, what was said. The discussion on that call is central to whether prosecutors can charge gaetz with Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/obstructing-justice'>Obstructing Justice which makes it illegal which makes it illegal to suggest that a witness in a criminal case lie. Generally, as a lawyer, right, youre you are advising someone in that situation not to be talking to anyone, any witnesses, whatsoever, right . Yeah. Thats exactly right. If i were representative gaetzs counsel, i would absolutely tell him to shut up. At this point. He really should stop talking because as we can see, he is exposing himself potentially to morecriminal exposure. And whats important to know here, is that Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/obstruction-of-justice'>Obstruction Of Justice, to me, as a prosecutor. If someone is working so hard to, essentially, do witness intimidation, which is what the reporting is sort of alluding to here. Trying to influence a potential witness to alter what they, otherwise, would testify to in court. Or speak when they are speaking with criminal investigators. Then, that shows me that there is some consciousness of guilt here. Uhhuh. What is he working so hard to cover up . And so, in fact, while it may be a standalone charge of Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/obstruction-of-justice'>Obstruction Of Justice. It might end up bolstering any evidence that the prosecutors have of any substantive crime, like Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/sex-trafficking'>Sex Trafficking. Thats a great great point. Ariana, thank you so much for that. Thank you. Last night, during my conversation with Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/cdc-director'>Cdc Director rochelle walensky, i pressed her on the lack of concrete actions the u. S. Was taking to vaccinate the world. Tonight, an update on that front. Dont go anywhere. Its next. N that front. Dont go anywhere. Its next. My friend stefanie, her skin was dry. Im like girl you better get you some dove. She hooked me up. With a quarter moisturising cream, Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/dove-cleans'>Dove Cleans effectively and cares beautifully. Sometimes you wanna go where everybody knows your name and theyre always glad you came you wanna be where you can see ahah our troubles are all the same ahah you wanna be where everybody knows your name you wanna go where people know welcome back, america. It sure is good to see you. What are you wearing, dog . Theyre pants, dog. No, these are pants, dog. No way. My pants are pants, dog. Pizza on a bagel we can all agree with that. Uhm whatever those are, theyre not pants. [ ding ] to be a tHriver with metastatic Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/breast-cancer'>Breast Cancer means. Grabbing a hold of what matters. Asking for what we want. And need. And we need more time. So, we want kisqali. Living longer is possible and proven with kisqali when taken with fulvestrant or a nonsteroidal Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/aromatase-inhibitor'>Aromatase Inhibitor in Hr , her2 metastatic Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/breast-cancer'>Breast Cancer. Kisqali is approved for both pre and postmenopausal women, and has extended lives in multiple clinical trials. Kisqali is a pill thats significantly more effective at delaying Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/disease-progression'>Disease Progression versus a nonsteroidal Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/aromatase-inhibitor'>Aromatase Inhibitor or fulvestrant alone. Kisqali can cause lung problems, or an abnormal heartbeat, which can lead to death. It can cause serious skin reactions, liver problems, and low white Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/blood-cell'>Blood Cell counts that may result in severe infections. Tell your doctor right away if you have new or worsening symptoms, including breathing problems, cough, chest pain, a change in your heartbeat, dizziness, yellowing of the skin or eyes, dark urine, tiredness, loss of appetite, abdomen pain, bleeding, bruising, fever, chills, or other symptoms of an infection, a severe or worsening rash, are or plan to become pregnant, or breastfeeding. Avoid grapefruit during treatment. Kisqali is not approved for use with tamoxifen. Its our time. For more time. We asked for kisqali. Ask your doctor about living longer with kisqali. A Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/sevenday-average'>Sevenday Average of u. S. Covid deaths is now at the lowest level since Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/march-29th'>March 29th of last year. 600,000 americans have died since the pandemic began. And the virus continues to produce Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/misery-and-death'>Misery And Death day after day, around the world. Here is an example. Last month, 31 of Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/covid-deaths'>Covid Deaths worldwide came from latin america and the caribbean, even though it only has 8. 4 of the worlds population. India, alone, lost almost 120,000 people to the virus, just in may. That is the deadliest month any nation has seen since the start of the pandemic. And all that happened, while we have incredibly safe and effective vaccines. We have, both, the ability and the responsibility to do everything we can to vaccinate the world. As of tHree weeks ago, the total number of vaccines shipped abroad from the u. S. Was abysmally low compared to other countries. Only, about 3 Million doses. You see that export . The yellow . See how you cant see the bar there . Yeah. Thats us. Then, just over two weeks ago, the Biden Administration announced it was going to donate 80 Million vaccine doses to other countries to fight the virus. Great. You would think the number of doses sent out would have increased, quite a bit, since that announcement from 3 Million right after the outset. But as of today, the number is just over 4 Million and thats not just vaccines donated. It is total vaccines that have been allowed to leave this country, even in commercial transactions. Its nothing, essentially. So, last night, i pressed the Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/cdc-director'>Cdc Director, rochelle walensky, On What, on earth, the holdup was. Why are we dragging our feet, while people die . We have a commitment and a plan, to share 80 Million doses of covid vaccine, by The End of june. And were working tHrough the logistics of of of that plan. I have been hearing 80 Million doses. I have been hearing were working tHrough logistical issues. Weeks and weeks have gone by, and we havent shipped doses. Yeah. I want to be very clear, to say that we have been first of all, here, in the united states, to this day, we have suffered the most deaths of anywhere in the world. We needed to put on our own oxygen masks, before we were able to help others. And now, we are actively doing that. So, today, some very good news. Announcement of actual doses shipping out. Out the door. Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/25-million'>25 Million doses will be shipped, by the united states, under the Biden Administration. 19 Million of those are going to go to covax, which is this kind of global cooperative that is focused on collecting and distributing vaccines to developing nations. Again, very welcome news but just the first step, right . The 80 Million doses the Biden Administration says will be shipped out by The End of this month should be the floor, not the ceiling. We have the rarest of opportunities to build a kind of arsenal of immunity around the world that can save lives. It can improve our relationships with other nations. Help get the global economy, back, humming again. There is no excuse not to do it. And the clock is ticking. Icking lets make lots of Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/money-youve'>Money Youve got the brawn ive got the brains lets make lots of uh uh uh oohhh theres a lot of opportunities with allstate, drivers who switched saved over 700. Saving is easy when youre in good hands. Allstate click or call to switch today. Na na na na na na na na. Hey hey hey. Goodbye. Na na na na. Hey hey hey. Goodbye. Na na na na na na na na. The worlds first sixfunction multipro tailgate. Available on the gmc sierra. This is wealth. The worlds first sixfunction multipr ailgate. This is worth. That takes wealth. But this is worth. And that thats actually worth more than you think. Dont open that. Wealth is important, and we can help you build it. But its what you do with it, that makes life worth living. Principal. For all its worth. Dont you just love the look on the kids faces. Yea, that look of pure terror. No, no, the smile. And that second right before the first tear comes. What . pizza on a bagelwe can all agree with that. Do you want a hug . [sfx psst psst] allergies dont have to be scary. Spraying flonase daily stops your body from overreacting to allergens all season long. Psst psst all good the u. S. In the meantime is going ahead with its plan to put armed guards on certain Airline Flights and a Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/senate-committee'>Senate Committee heard testimony about this today. People that were going to put on airplanes are mature, rational, well qualified and are not about to start anything or make any overact that would add risk to the situation. There was a time in this Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/countrys-history'>Countrys History known as the Golden Age of hijacking. Between 1961 when the first u. S. Flight was hijacked and 1962, nearly were commandeered. Those were happening as often as once a week. No longer planes in air space. Hijackers were taking control of u. S. Air carriers anywhere in the world. It became a viral contagion. We were 45 minutes out of zurich when a different voice over the loud speaker announced, this is your new captain, were going to a friendly country. A friendly country. He did not identify the name of the friendly country, and we did not know until after we had landed. It was pretty frightening. I saw the fellow at the cockpit before he put on his stocking and i was hoping i wasnt seeing correctly. So people would watch Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/television-news'>Television News reports about those hijackings and how it created attention, a spectacle, and they would think, maybe i can hijack a plane, too. And they did. They did it for money, escape, to bring attention to a cause. They did it for all kinds of reasons eventually, tighter security was put in place. Then of course 9 11 happens, security got even tighter. Much, much tighter. All this is detailed in an amazing book called the skied belong to us. I recommend you check it out. I was reminded of that book and hijackings because it seems like were on the cusp of Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/ransomware-attack'>Ransomware Attacks. Hijackers shutting down Operating Systems and demanding money. Last year, the fbi received report of 2,500 ransomware cases. And get this, victims paid out nearly 350 Million to get to attacks to stop. A Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/ransomware-attack'>Ransomware Attack shut down Baltimore Public Schools for tHree days. A cyberattack forced Colonial Pipeline to shut down. Heres how they got Access Back they paid 4 hadnt 4 Million reportedly in bitcoin to the hackers. This week on a Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/meat-processor'>Meat Processor shutting down Meat Plants in the u. S. Ken dedylanian joins me now on the phone. Is this becoming more common . Youre absolutely right. Stats back you up and the officials i have been talking to confirm that these Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/ransomware-attack'>Ransomware Attacks have become not only more frequent, but more serious and impactful, and the groups the criminal groups behind them, which are generally coming from russia or Eastern Europe and are operating under the sanctuary of governments, are becoming more emboldened, greater in number, better funded. Because every time a company like Colonial Pipeline plays a 4 hadnt 5 Million ransom, that adds to the resources these groups have to continue these sorts of attacks. What our new reporting is saying tonight, is after years of the federal government treating this as a nuisance, because these are not nation states, these are criminals, the Biden Administration is moving into a mode of treating it like the national Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/security-tHreat'>Security THreat that it is. These two latest attacks sharpen the focus on that because they disrupted supplies of gasoline and potentially supplies of meat. What that means, treating it like a national Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/security-tHreat'>Security THreat is its no longs just about the fbi trying to figure out who did it, maybe indicting people in russia who will never see the inside of an american courtroom. Its about all the tools of the national Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/security-state'>Security State going after this problem. That means intelligence agencies collecting on these criminals, and it potentially means u. S. Cybercommand, americas Military Cyberwarriors taking action in cyberspace to disrupt these people. That comes with complications because theyre inside a sovereign state, russia, which will retaliate, which will not take kindly to american cyberaction. Before that happens, joe bidens going to meet with Vladimir Putin. Hes going put him on notice that russia needs to stop harboring these criminals, but nobody i talked to expects Vladimir Putin to pay much heed to that. Were coming to a point where the Biden Administration is going to have to make hard decisions about what exactly theyre willing to do to stop these attacks. Might want to read that piece again, the Biden Administration moving to treat Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/ransomware-attack'>Ransomware Attacks as a national Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/security-tHreat'>Security THreat. Contemplating Offensive Cyberoperations against hackers inside russia. We have this from Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/lisa-monaco'>Lisa Monaco to federal prosecutors. We must enhance and centralize our internal tracking and investigations and prosecutions of ransomware groups. Heres my Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/question-ransom'>Question Ransom is a classic collective Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/action-problem'>Action Problem. So if a loved one of yours were kidnapped, i speaking for myself, could do anything possible to get them back, and if that meant paying a lot of money, i would do it. The problem with that is the individual incentive to pay the ransom, but if everyone does that you would incentivize more kidnappings. Seems like theres a collective Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/action-problem'>Action Problem here. I understand why Colonial Pipeline ponied up the money, but thats just inviting the next one. Oh, 100 . I mean, that is absolutely the problem. If nobody paid the ransom, these attacks would go away, because they wouldnt be profitable. But almost everyone who has no choice, who cant get their data back any other way is going to pay. The colonial ceo is out talking publicly about why he made that decision. He said it wasnt only an obligation to the company but the american public. You didnt hear anything from officials because they were getting frantic about Gas Prices going up and long lines at the pump. The solution to this doesnt lie in individual companies and whether they pay the ransom, and it didnt really lie in beefing up cyberdefenses, although Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/thats-part'>Thats Part of it, because a lot of the companies that fall victim to this tend to have poor cybersecurity in The End. But even if anybody had perfect cybersecurity, hackers, given enough time and money will always get tHrough. Thats why the u. S. Government has to take this on as a global problem and bring all the resources the bear against it. Ken delainian, thanks so much. I walls want to bring in nicole parole ross, she joins me now. Quickly on the currency here. Cryptocurrency being used for this. Theres always a joke, this seems to be a use case, which seems kind of problematic. I dont have strong opinions either way, but seems like it. Yeah, cryptocurrencies have really fueled Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/ransomware-attack'>Ransomware Attacks. Theres no question about it. Ten years ago when i was covering Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/ransomware-attack'>Ransomware Attacks they were charging people 200 and they would tell them to buy a prepaid Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/debit-card'>Debit Card and tell them to hand over the bin. Now were seeing cryptocurrency. One of the things being discussed right now is, why dont governments enforce know thy Customer Rules . Unless we get this problem under control, ransomware will end up being the Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/achilles-heel'>Achilles Heel for cryptocurrency. Thats such a great point. You couldnt do a normal bank transfer. Thats all in this thursday night. The Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/rachel-maddow-show'>Rachel Maddow Show starts right now. Good evening. Thank you, my friend. Much appreciated. Thanks for joining us this hour. President Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/trumps-postmaster'>Trumps Postmaster general, Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/louis-dejoy'>Louis Dejoy, who has been trying to dismantle and sabotage the u. S. Post office for more than a year now since hes been running it, today we learned hes under investigation for an allegedly criminal political Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/donation-scheme'>Donation Scheme he ran out of his business for years. Before he got the Href='https://vimarsana.com/news/post-office'>Post Office gig during the trump administration. We have reported on that alleged scheme extensively here on the show. In part because it is really quite oddly reminiscent of the thing that nixons vice president