Congressman matt gaetz. We touched on this story before, but i have never said what im about to say to you tonight. The feds are eyeing possible Obstruction Of Justice. This stemming from a phone call that a witness had with the maga favorite and republican congressman matt gaetzs exgirlfriend who patched gaetz into the call. This is a story broken by politico. It has been confirmed by nbc news. We can see how the investigation is moving with this key Witness Spilling Everything to the feds, including what, by definition, sounds like things that some people might not want to get out. Meanwhile, gaetzs guilty and convicted association cooperating, talking to the feds under a legal obligation to share anything and everything, whether he wants to or not, whether he thinks it is relevant or not saying, quote, Congressman Gaetz pursues justice. He does not obstruct it. Let me be clear. That is a specific new charge that tells you on the one hand that this is a big and significant thing they want to address. As with all of these cases, we want to report everything for you. The feds dont just look at a felony out of the blue. They have some sort of reason. But the subjects of these probes, the people caught up in them have their right to make a denial. We have pointed out what has been a salacious case that mr. Gaetz maintains his innocence across the probe. We know a Sex Trafficking Probe is ongoing. I want to bring in our experts for this. We have melissa murray, nyu law professor, and Jason Johnson from morgan state university. Welcome to you both. Melissa, you dont have to be a longtime news viewer to remember that donald trump was accused of multiple instances of Obstruction Of Justice. The conservative count in the Mueller Report is five and then there is some that were gray. But he was president so it was dealt in a very specific way. He had no more Vocal Defender of the idea that he didnt and perhaps couldnt commit obstruction than matt gaetz. What do you see beyond here in the report that the feds are looking at this beyond other potential charges . Well, it suggests the investigation has moved into a stage where theyre not only dealing with the information that greenberg is offering but those associated with greenberg were also telling them things. Again, Obstruction Of Justice is a pretty wide range of activity that could be incapsulated in that. It is everything including threats, coercion. Or even more minor things like trying to administrate justice. So if matt gaetz, for example, suggested that this particular individual should shape her testimony or get her story straight, for example, that would technically be Obstruction Of Justice. We have always heard that it is not the crime but the coverup. In this case it might be both the crime and the coverup that actually is the issue here for investigators. Very well put. I mean, i think you made it make sense there. And, jason, the probe is very serious because itinvolves not just serious accusations but at this juncture serious convictions because of what mr. Greenberg admitted to. We know the feds when they say there is a Sex Crimes Conspiracy of this nature, they want to go down every alley. We know greenberg says things about other people. I just want to be as precise as possible. We dont know that Everything Greenberg says is true. With that in mind, i want to play this. Take a listen. It was at this time that one of the girls, who had represented herself to be 19 earrings old and was due to move to texas that upcoming august to attend a new college was, in fact, 17 years old, roughly five months shy of her 18th birthday. She had a fake id, her best friends were all in college and there was absolutely no way a reasonable person could know that this individual was not yet 18. On more than one occasion, this individual was involved in sexual activities with several of the other girls. The congressman from floridas first Congressional District and myself. I did see the acts occur firsthand. And venmo transactions, cash app or other payments were made to these girls on behalf of the congressman. So, jason, the guy who is cooperating with the feds is on record in writing accusing this congressman of this misconduct. As melissa reminded us, were in the investigative stage where theyre looking at all potential things. Walk us through what this means not just in the law but from a Republican Party that certainly in this case is under scrutiny. Well, what this speaks to, ari, not just how bad the accusations are, but the fact that we have seen matt gaetz be very sloppy throughout this entire process. The reason were hearing this story is because allegedly hes on the phone. At this point when you are investigation, the representative should assume the phone is tapped. Every Single Person he talks to, he should be careful. What this suggests to me is not only are you potentially involved in bad behavior, you are Walking Around the country trying to clean up the story. That is a bad sign for gaetz. However, and this is another important number. We talked about people being under age and everything. But the most important number to matt gaetz right now is 1. 8. He raised 1. 8 million in the First Quarter of this year even though hes been bagged with these accusations. He went from two months ago saying i dont know if im going to run again to last week with Marjorie Taylor greene saying he will run for president in 2024. Right now this doesnt appear to be hurting him. I always learn a lot from you. I had not heard that, jason, so i think you are teaching us something interesting. Florida is one of the largest delegations in the country because it is done by people. So you have a lot of representatives. You are telling us right now, with all this going on, hes actually raising more than Everyone Else . Yes. 1. 8 million for the First Quarter. He outraised Everybody Else in the state, every democrat, the next closest person was a republican who raised 700,000. If you look specifically in his specific, he commandeered a pole a couple weeks ago. Only 20 of District Residents in florida district one actually believe the accusation against gaetz. 40 say they dont know, which is not a good sign when you have been their representative. But politically right now hes safe. If he can raise that one for himself and the rest of the party, he might get through this. He could run for reelection in 2022, and he might get there. Wow. Professor, any thoughts on all the above . He may be a sitting congressman that doesnt mean hes immune from criminal liability if indeed he is charged and if there is a criminal trial. Obviously there is a lot between those two points. But the fact that hes been able to raise 1. 8 million really speaks more to the force of this deep state theory that hes really been a proponent of and thats characterized this wing of the Republican Party over the last couple of years than it does about the force of these charges, which are incredibly, incredibly serious. Yeah. And, so, professor, Where Do We Go From Here with you have greenberg sentencing. Everyone is going to be interested in whether they can gleam anything from that. We dont know when we would learn more. The feds can move at their own pace in this kind of probe. What are you looking at in the sentencing . We will know on august 19th when he appears before the court to be sentenced. What the sentence is and how much its predicated on, how much he cooperated with the federal investigators, is an entirely different story we will not know more about until later in this process. But the fact that he is ready to be sentenced and that the plea has been entered and its concluded means that they have gotten, i think, most of what they need from greenberg and theyre probably moving through the other individuals that greenberg alerted them to during the course of this investigation. At the very least we know this is moving at a relatively rapid clip. So if thats right, and i dont know if you will answer this or not, then it is your theory of the case that the Obstruction Charge would be the icing on something they have already prepared or the backstop because they didnt get anything else more serious . Hard to tell. But this doesnt seem to be like a Martha Stewart situation where they never actually had proof of Insider Trading but instead they were focussed on the fact of the telling the story, the coverup, that led to the Obstruction Charge and thats ultimately what she was convicted on. The fact that greenberg is pleading guilty and preparing for sentencing suggests that the prosecutors have gotten what they need from him. What that is is an open question. But its probably more wide ranging than just this Obstruction Charge. Yeah. You mentioned Martha Stewarts. Viewers heard a lot about sdny and how aggressive they are. It turned out she did not commit a Financial Crime but for some reason she lied about it. The fact that you obstructed in a very stupid or perhaps arrogant way, they were still going to charge. Guilty of that. Also, Jason Johnson, shes also guilty of making a mean chocolate chip cookie. Ive heard. There you go. On the high order of things, it was one of the smaller cases. Controversial even, but it does illustrate melissas point. We cant assume because theyre talking obstruction they have everything. But we will keep following this case. I want to thank melissa and jason for kicking us off. Coming up, Republican Leaders complicit in this attack on democracy. What does a party do to get to this point . We have some very special guests. People who have led both Political Parties together live. Also later tonight why don jr. Is selling videos like this for just 500. This is donald trump jr. Erica, congratulations on the wedding. Happy sweet 16th. I heap to see you at a maga rally. Stay with us for that. And by the end of the hour, we will be joined by Music Superstar and icon sheryl crow. It is a big episode of the beat. Stay with us tonight. Ith us tont. Thats why in parts of many major cities where people can use massive capacity we added verizon 5g ultra wideband, the fastest 5g in the world. Nice. It isnt just a step forward, its a leap forward. 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All powered by reliable, secure wifi from xfinity. Gotta respect his determination. Its easy and affordable to get started. Get Self Protection for 10 a month. What is wrong with Democracy In America . Many, many things. And many of them stem from the loser of the last election having so many problems understanding what happened to him. The Washington Post details that the expresident and exblogger is consumed with these amateur audits that some republican officials have demanded in some states and that hes watching coverage about it and fixated for example on one we covered in arizona. Advisers say telling trump that he lost in 2020, which means these audits only draw more attention to that fact doesnt work. One adviser saying what you see on the screen. It is like [ bleep ] into the wind. Now, on the one hand this is quite absurd. It is also a certain kind of nonsense that can basically combine with other dark forces in our country that leads to bigger, real problems. Yes, it is absurd nonsense but it cant be ignored entirely. Consider the lying that fed a deadly insurrection that many are lying about to this day. Experts point to arizona now as something of the dark blueprint for other states to attack democracy, even though it is also at times looked very clearly like a clown show to conservatives. Here is some facts. In pennsylvania, local officials are now using that silly arizona blueprint and calling for their own amateur audit. And thats just on recounting the loss. You also have things that affect the future. 14 different states pushing restrictive Voting Crackdowns this year. Texas on the march to join the states you see on the screen. Then you have Michael Flynn talking up a Military Coup and then trying to walk it back when caught on tape. There has also been, and this is something i want to put on the same context before i bring in our experts here, a surge in domestic terrorism in the United States. 250 plots busted that involve right wing extremists in the last five years. The peak in 2020. You have republicans in congress, though, burying any investigation saying they dont want to get to the facts even on a bipartisan probe. And Mitch Mcconnell defending it all. Another layer of investigation in my view doesnt add anything. We were all witnesses to it. I was there. We all know exactly what happened. If you dont want to face the facts, you raise a question of whether you want to be involved in defending the facts of what occurred. And we all lived through january 6th. We have, as i mentioned, two very special guests to get into this. What do Political Parties do when faced with this kind of problem . Dean and steele have led both Political Parties in america and theyre here after our shortest break. Were back in 30 seconds. N 30 ss. Oh. What . Im an emu no, buddy only pay for what you need. Liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. Its Grilled Cheese time. Yeah, its time for Grilled Cheese. After we make Grilled Cheese, then were eating Grilled Cheese. Because its time. Yeah. Time for Grilled Cheese. We are now joined by the two chairmen. Howard dean and Michael Steele who ran the Republican National committee and served as Lieutenant Governor of maryland. Thanks to both of you for having this conversation. Good to be with you, ari. Appreciate it. Michael steele, you said there is no party like a National Party because a National Party dont stop or they Say Something like that. And here is a party that you used to run. I know you care about a traditional conservativism as well as patriotism. Viewers have heard that you prefer Biden Over Trump in the last election. But what do you do when the lies dont stop and the Rank And File members, particularly vocal activists, are lining up with these lies . Yeah. Thats the challenge. I mean, how do you turn that corner . You know, how do you bust through that den of lies as part of expose it for what it is and to pull out, save as many people as you can from them. Its hard. And in the past, we would always look to our leaders to do that. We would look at the majority or the Minority Leader of our party in the senate or the speaker of the house over the Minority Leader of our party in the house to be that voice to sort of pull us away from the tip of crazy. But theyre the ones who are leading the charge. So its harder now because they have become spineless. Mitch mcconnell knows damn well that what he said was a line of you know what talking about, well, when i look at this, i dont see any need for it. Did you say that when you guys were investigating benghazi for Untold Millions 33,000 times . No. You thought there was something legitimate there and you went after this. This aint benghazi. Its worse. Its ten times worse. It impacts the entire country. Its not credible. It is not believable. So when you ask the question how do you pull people away from that inside the throws of it, it is hard to do when the leadership are the ones perpetuating. It is beyond trump at this point, ari. It is now systemically a part of the narrative that has infused and reused by our leadership. And that is a harder nut to crack. Yeah. And you said narrative. I wonder whether its congealing into the orthodox. Oh, yeah. I wonder whether its becoming, yeah, like a type of absurd and dangerous litmus test where people have to lie about someone elses loss. I mean, thats whats really wild about this, governor. Is republicans who did win office with whatever their own strategy was have to run around and lie about a different politicians loss to maintain their standing. And, so, its baroque. Its a joke. I do want to play some of the joke of it with the way the late night folks have been going at the amateur audience but also get your response. Nowhere have republicans held on to the big lie more fervently than the great state of arizona. It feels like this con is never going to end. Now, it is easy to dismiss this arizona audit. But there is at least one person who is pretty sure that its gonna put donald trump back in power. And youll never guess who that person is. What other genius ideas do they have in other the real ballots will float . Whats next . They feed the real ballots to a bunch of chickens and then incinerate the chickens . Governor . That actually is a critical way to fight back against this. We are watching something that we havent seen for a long time in this country, but it happens in many democracies. And it is the weak point of democracies when one side figures out how to use democracy to undermine democracy. So what these folks are doing, essentially, is what hitler did. It is what orbon did in germany. Democracy dies because you no longer care about democracy. The republicans have no commitment to democracy at this point. There are very few that do. Liz cheney stood up for what is right. Most are running around subservient to somebody who never cared about democracy, and thats donald trump. This next few years will determine whether the United States survives as the cradle of democracy. Yeah. Michael steele, to the governors point, although the different dictators had different agendas, so i dont think there is equivalence on what they did, but you certainly have throughout World History places where elections occurred and they were largely normal. And then they gave way to the end of elections. Or sham elections like what you have if people know what you have in russia. They have a thing they call an election with trump. So, michael, when you look at this, you will see. I want to read something thats quite hot, but i want to read it for your analysis. If you think it goes too far, let us know. Jonathan chai argues at this point the republican mainstream is refusing to talk about january 6th and the Commission Investigation we showed. Not because it is too weak to be taken seriously but because it is too strong. In the red states he writes, quote, republicans are laying the ground work to make the next insurrection easier. Michael . I cant find a lot of fault with that statement. The reason for that is i just look at the Election Bills that are being passed. I look at the fact that donald trump says i will be reinstalled in august, and no one is leadership is going to say shut the hell up and sit down. No one said that. Theyre quiet on it. The fact that you have the January 6th Commission playing out the way it did when you have again, i keep going back to this. Probably the most painful sights during that whole conversation was watching brian sicknicks mother gog members yeah. To vote to inquire about her son, and they basically said no. No. Yeah. So what is that the foundation of now . Its the foundation of something. I mean, what do you think happens next . Where do we go from here . If you wont shut up, you know, the guy in florida saying hes going to be reinstalled in august. If you have got two numb nuts running around between florida and georgia, gaetz and Marjorie Taylor greene talking about they run the party, theyre now the leaders of the party, you have got the silence from the actual leadership or the complicity by someone like mccarthy by kicking out liz cheney, what do you think comes next . I mean, that does not its not a whole big leap. So he has a good point, it is a red flag because this is a setup for something, and we need to be prepared for whatever that something is as citizens. Governor dean . Yeah. I think thats right. So what is the way out of this . The way out of this is young people arent going to take this. My view of this is actually i end up being optimistic. And the reason i do is i think the republicans have already lost this. The reason they are abandoning democracy is because they have no choice. They cant win in a democracy. And this is not going to go away. These folks will get old and die soon. Look at how old these people are that are carrying on like this for the most part. Young people, people of color have you know, black lives matter movement, which the republicans are terrified about and saying all kinds of terrible things, the thing that was so amazing when he said he was an optimist and he is not a guy thats given to optimism because for the First Time Since i have been alive, white kids and black kids were out there together in equal numbers demanding justice. And that is what the real future of this country is. So i am optimistic in the long run because these facists are going to die up. I think there is a good debate to be had between conservatives and liberals. It is a good thing to have conservatives telling us we cant spend money and print money all the time. These people are not conservatives. They are neofascists, and thats a fact. Let me take it to michael for closing argument. I hate to be the fly in the ointment, but i guess thats part of my job sometimes. The governor gave us the reason for optimism, and we certainly saw activism. We also saw record high turnout. Right. We also have a more Diverse Congress than any time in american history, which is a reflection of higher turnout, which is a reflection of a government that reflects more of the countrys actual population than ever before in american history. So i hear you on that. But what i give michael the closing word on is the potential hole in what the governor just outlined is, and we have covered this on the beat, the initial support around black lives matter, the initial stitching together of the Wider Population has been crashing over the past few months. Yes, you have youth in activism, but do you have this stitched in to remain a coalition or when you get to four to six years away. Michael, i give you the final word . My buddy howard, i do share in his enthusiasm and this optimism to this extent. But what tempers that greatly is the fact that what are you going to do . Are you going to show up in november in georgia excuse me, in virginia and new jersey and vote . Because there are two big elections this november. Imagine if republicans take back virginias governorship and wins one of two houses. What do you think the narrative on the other side of that will be from donald trump and those republicans . When you go into next year, are you prepared to come into the game with the same fervor and level of intensity . Because thats what voting requires. It is not a it is not a plas said involvement. You have to stay engaged. When you see all the stuff thats happening in 47 states around the country, what is your response to that . Yawn . Or to get further engaged. Well see how not just young voters but all voters respond. If we want to get an understanding of what lies ahead, let me tell you where we are now. Google a political map of the country. Not at the state level but at the county level. And when you see that map and now red that map is, then you begin to understand what redirecting, voter suppression, et cetera, et cetera does look like and what it will look like Going Forward is that is a concern for you because the country is a lot redder than 2020 may lead you to believe. All fantastic points. Ill make you guys a deal. Ill take you up on the educational question you posed, michael. We will get that map. We will compare county to the wider electoral maps. We would love to have you guys both back on because i would love to do this chair series with you when you guys are free. Absolutely. Any time with howard. Thank you. There you go. Thanks to both of the chairs. Important discussion. We will fit in a quick break. When we come back, donald trump jr. Is making personalized video at a very low price point. A question why . And the new details on covids origins and the political scandal that might be brewing in plain sight. We have that for you next. At fo. [sizzling] i may not be able to tell time, but i know what time it is. [whispering] its Grilled Cheese oclock. We made usaa insurance for members like martin. An air force veteran made of doing whats right, not whats easy. So when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage. Thats how you do it right. Usaa insurance is made just the way martins family needs it with hasslefree claims, he got paid before his neighbor even got started. Because doing right by our members, thats whats right. Usaa. What youre made of, were made for. Usaa [sfx psst psst] were made for. Allergies dont have to be scary. Spraying flonase daily stops your body from overreacting to allergens all season long. Psst psst all good wealth is your first big investment. Worth is a partner to help share the load. Wealth is saving a little extra. Worth is knowing its never too late to start or too early. Wealth helps you retire. Worth is knowing why. Principal. For all its worth. Donald trumps blog may be over. R. I. P. But online messages and other types of madeup trumpian material are still going on. Indeed, you can get donald trump jr. To make you a personalized video for just about any occasion, and it costs a lot less than you might think. Just 500. Take a look. James and lori ted and heidi paul, hunter, preston paul, donald trump jr. This is for tony costello. Congratulations on your 49th birthday. Your 50th wedding anniversary. Happy sweet 16. Now, here on the news, we dont want to be a bummer. Were all for sending happy birthdays and other assorted congratulations. But there is a wider context here. Donald trump jr. Also complaining that hes had to spend millions of dollars or his family in the trump org have for the ongoing criminal probe there. He appears to be asking fans to pay him what is a low price point. To be fair, there is a general statement that some of it will be donated to a Shadow Warriors project. We would like to see transparency on that given that the Trump Charity was shut down over this exact kind of mingling, where there is a claimed charitable contribution that doesnt always happen. More prodly and politically it is odd because this family brags and tauts itself as being wealthy, successful billionaires. Yet, there are so many failed enterprises and cheap, lowprice projects. Donald trump also getting political in some of the videos, drumming up support for the exblogger in florida. Dont worry about it. If your wife is mad about you for saying Election Night 2016 is the happiest night of your life. I hear you love my dad. I hear that giovana calls you dynamic donald. I hope to see you at a maga rally. Look forward to seeing you at a trump rally soon. Maybe one in canada. You never know. And even though these are personalized video, so they are ordered up for whoever you send them to, sometimes a little Business Promotion gets into the mix. Larry and kathy, enjoy dural. If you havent been, it is an incredible place. Jacob, i hear that maybe, maybe the honeymoon would be at doral. I promise you, you guys will love it down there and maybe ill see you there myself. Im joined now my the host of crooked media, a daily beast contributor. And viewers may remember for her several great points about why the donald trump blog wouldnt be long for this world. You were right about that. Thanks for coming back. I was right about that, ari. And thank you for having me back. R. I. P. To the trump blog indeed. R. I. P. So this is one where if there is any money going to charity, great. We need all the receipts given to history. If there is genuine shoutouts, great. But this is a person that claims to be worth an awful lot. And 500 is pretty low. Your thoughts on that and what this says at large about a trump enterprise that again remains under investigation with a lot of pressure. Right. Well, i was really confused by this when i first saw it in the news. Like you dont do cameo unless you get something that you need out of doing it. I associate it with washed up athletes for the most part. So, you know, either don jr. Is doing it for a financial reason. He is saying that he needs money for legal bills. But there are other ways that he can get money. Like he was traveling for the last four years with, you know, free Secret Service protection. Although, i guess he did kind of pay for that in a way. But he also is a New York Times bestselling author. You know, he is somebody who maybe nobody read that book and boost sales were boosted by conservative organizations. But regardless he should have had money from that. Where did that all go . There are other ways to make money. He could go on the speakers circuit. That is a high margin industry. And pretty much if you went out and spoke to all of his fathers biggest fans minus the cost of a russian translator, its just pure profit. There are less humiliating ways to make money than cameo for him. Im assuming this is just for attention. We know the need for attention runs in the trump family. Maybe he wants attention from headline writers. Maybe he wants the media to be so quick to talk, you know, talk smack about. But maybe he wants attention from somebody who might have some deeper pockets who would swoop in and pay some of these legal bills hes complaining about. Either way, im enjoying the ride. Yeah. Its quite a ride. And well keep an eye on whatever other news or tidbits come out through what is a Communications Platform for him. Albeit on a political basis. We will come back to you on the beat in the future. Thanks for being here. As mentioned, tonights Program Features grammy winner sheryl crow coming up. But first one important covid update. New reporting on the questions about covids origin. Thats next. Now, theres skyrizi. Things are getting clearer. I feel free to bare my skin yeah, thats all me. Nothing and me go hand in hand nothing on my skin, thats my new plan. Nothing is everything. Achieve clearer skin with skyrizi. 3 out of 4 people achieved 90 clearer skin at 4 months. Of those, nearly 9 out of 10 sustained it through 1 year. 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Kraft. For the win win. Riders, the lone wolves of the great highway. All they need is a bike and a full tank of gas. Their only friend . The open road. I have friends. [ chuckles ] well, he may have friends, but he rides alone. Thats jeremy, right there were literally riding together. He gets touchy when you talk about his lack of friends. Can you help me out here . No matter why you ride, progressive has you covered with protection starting at 79 a year. Well, were new friends. To be fair. Eh, still. Where did covid come from . Dr. Fauci says probably from an animal like a lab but it is key to keep in mind that it could have come from a lab in china. I still believe the most likely origin is from an Animal Species to a human, but i keep an absolutely open mind that there may be other origins of that. There may be another reason. It could have been a lab leak. I have been public that we should continue to look for the origin. Covid has taken 600,000 total lives in the u. S. Alone. It matters where it came from. And faucis emphasis on the lab theory comes as dr. Biden dials up pressure to get information on the origin. Researchers in a lab in china got sick enough to be hospitalized back in november 2019. Vanity share report tracks how conflicts of funding hampered the origin with some officials worried that even asking questions may draw attention to the United States links to that lab or open a can of worms that they just didnt want politically. This is one piece of what we are seeing as a wider information break down, which includes some of the media, by the way, because the lab theory political skepticism by some worry that it would feed into Donald Trumps attacking china. But that is exactly the very kind of thing that could hobble an open mind in science. Nowadays in this current moment, experts and the new president say the lab theory is possible and credible. So efforts to dismiss it as somehow fringe last year were at a minimum misplaced. We have a quick break, and when we come back, something that you can tell im excited about. Sheryl crow makes her debut on the beat. Guard, your clothes can repel pet hair. Look how the shirt on the left attracts pet hair like a magnet pet hair is no match for bounce. With bounce, you can love your pets, and lint roll less. What do we want for dinner . Burger. I want a sugar cookie. Wait. I want a bucket of chicken. I want. Its the easiest because its the cheesiest. Kraft. For the win win. Visible is wireless that doesnt play games. No surprise fees, legit unlimited data for as little as 25 a month. And the best part, its powered by verizon. But it gets crazier. Bring a friend every month and get every month for 5. Which is why i brought them. Two 5amonths right here. Hey. Hey. Plus the players of my squad. Hey. Whats up . Then finally my whole livestream. Boom 12 months of 5 wireless. Visible, as little as 25 a month or 5 a month when you bring a friend. Powered by verizon. 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Customizes your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need . Just get a quote at libertymutual. Com. Really . Ill check that out. Oh yeah. I think i might get a quote. Not again aah, come on rice. Do your thing. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. [peaceful music plays] [soft cymbal crash] our next geflt guest is a rock n roll icon, and ninetime grammy awardwinner. Were thrilled to have her. Lets start by hearing some of those political songs. Put a woman in the white house girls, how about you what makes you decide to write at that altitude . Theres a great sense of liberation for me in being able to write my truth and know that now more than ever, its important to be an artist and to speak truth and to point out what you see because youre not the only one seeing it. Particularly as a single mom, everything that i see now, theres a sense of urgency for me to write about it because i cant look the other way, you know. No matter what im writing about, whether it is a particular president or if its a particular religious leader or whatever, the themes are the same throughout history, and that is that greed is what propels people. When you put greedy people in charge, youre going to get what you get. Well, this takes us from the fake news we hear about these days to the fake fur, which you sang about interestingly at, of all places, the inauguration of then new president obama. I want to just read some of these lines back to you. Sometimes they seem to recur in relevance. Canine, feline, jekyll hyde, wear your fake fur on the inside. Queen of south beach, aging blues, dinners at six, wear your cement shoes. I thought you were singing your heart out to me. Your lips were sinking and now i see a change would do you good. What does that mean . Theres a lot of falseness everywhere. There was a point at which no one ever sang on tv, they always lip synched and people were espousing a cause but not living it. It all comes back to integrity and living your truth and seeking truth. It just has been a huge source of i mean its informed everything that ive done. There is a way to conduct your life where empathy and compassion and knowledge can hold can hold true and you can still write about it and laugh about it and disagree with people and put it in your music. And there was major disagreement about a 1996 song calling out walmart for selling guns, which the Company Allegedly attempted to censor. My first record was banned at walmart because we wrote i wrote about guns. My first record talked about clarence thomas, and i got serious blowback about that. I was in a lawsuit and all kinds of things. These things are what you look back on in your career and you feel proud of. Its not the 50,000 or 50 million records that youve sold or the nine grammys. Its not the all i wanna dos. Yes, that afforded me to have all these guitars behind me and took me to south america and all these other places. But its the moments when i stood up and spoke my truth that i will forever be proud of. Its so important. For people listening going what does it take to get your art or work banned from walmart, which is the largest employer in the United States and at a time was a huge player in mass record sales. Apparently not much, sheryl. You know, drake says im about to say a true thing. The line here was just you saying something true. Watch our children while they kill each other with a gun they bought at Walmart Discount stores. When that happened, did you think, wait a minute, all i said was the truth . Well, two things about it. I wish it wasnt still true. And the second thing is that i was given the option to change it to a different Discount Center by walmart. If you could explain. I think they mentioned kmart or who . I dont even know of other Discount Centers then. Sorry. Who was who was proposing that . The people at walmart to my record label. They proposed that if i changed the lyric to a different Discount Center that they would carry it. So walmart im only this is the journalist in me just slowing you down. Yes. So walmart sees this. People love sheryl crow. She sang the truth about what we sell. She can criticize guns and the sale of guns in america as long as she picks a different corporation. Then theyre fine with it they told your label . Yes. And i have to be honest with you, it was really a heartbreaking time because in my hometown, walmart came in and all the other small momandpops could not compete so the only place you could buy a record in high hometown was walmart. So because walmart had such a huge profile across america in small towns, i knew it was going to mean record sales. Ultimately, i have to be honest, though, i dont know how many sales i lost or how much attention that drew and perhaps that helped the sale of the record. I just knew that there was no way i was going to wake up in the morning and face myself and feel okay about having done the deed. And ive had the opportunity, and to be honest the good fortune to have had several of these experiences throughout my career. I can only say im still here and im still writing. Were debuting this interview with crow tonight. This is the first time hes recounted in detail how walmart made those demands to censor the efforts and criticize the lyrics. Walmart ultimately did ban her album. The store continues to be a flash point on this issue, by the way. They sell guns in about half of their 4,000 stores. They pulled some guns and ammo around recent protests and then restored them. In our new Interview Crow also talks about taylor swift, cardi b and kamala harris. Here are a few more highlights. They think youre dope because theres relatability to everyday life, which is why i dont think im dope. If somebody thought i was dope im doing the news here. Im telling you the facts. I want them to have a category at the grammys for best old artist instead of best new artist. Its the moments that i stood up and spoke my truth that i will forever be proud of. Are these happy songs or melancholic songs in a happy mood. Theyre disgruntled pissed off songs. It captured a moment in our evolution as young people. Youre like hey if it makes you happy. Feminist Movement Looks Like cardi b. Im going to dictate how i look. Im the one in control here. Really enjoyed talking to sheryl crow. This is part of our maverick series. I encourage you to check it out because we just showed you highlights. Theres a lot more in there as we discussed how she approached independent art, how she blew up quickly and what that did to her artistic career. These are just highlights from the full interview so i invite you to check out our mavericks series. You can see the full conversation at msnbc. Com mavericks or go on youtube and Search Melber sheryl crow and find the full digital exclusive. Crow is out there singing with a forthcoming live stream performance on june 18th. Tickets available now, so if youre interested in that, go to the link you see on your screen right now. If you have ideas for other mavericks i should interview, you can always reach me arimelber on social media or connect with me at arimelber. Com. Our thanks to sheryl crow for telling us about her music and her work. That does it for the beat. Tonight. The reidout starts now. Thank you very much. Having a great evening. All right, everyone, welcome. We begin the reidout with the endless insurrection. The current Republican Party has allowed the delusions of a single individual, a disgraced twice impeached failed florida blogger to reveal what frankly has long been its one true ethos. The when republicans lose, it can only be fraud. Republicans believed the same thing about bill clintons election and president obamas. Its actually just a Garden Variety belief among not just trumpists but norm