All in starts right now. Good evening, im chris hayes. Graduation season is over in phoenix, arizona. I guess where the backup . To hear, june 20th, 21st, recounted ballots from last years election. Republicans in the Arizona State senate for subpoenaed those ballots back in december. Ballots from just one county, mind you, maricopa. Of course, maricopa is the diverse whom and the states capital, that flip for democrats in november. And so, State Republicans targeted Maricopa County and only Maricopa County, for this Equal Parts Clownish and poisonous undertaking. People are pointing and laughing, theres an entire authoritarian ecosystem during its energy, as if from this, that is growing and spreading. If youve never seen this brace yourself for this bunkers dispatch, the farright oil network interviewing the chairwoman of the Arizona Republican party, kelly. Ward update as to what is going on with the audit . Natalie, its great to be here. Yes, the audit is proceeding. No matter what the democrats try to do and the leftist and the media. And the republicans in name only, who are belittling, bemoaning and generally throwing the senate about this audit. The audit continues. The audit has expanded. I think it is the first domino that is going to fall. Because we are seeing little noises from all around the country. In fact, theres a delegation from pennsylvania coming to arizona to meet with our legislature. Hopefully will soon be some action in pennsylvania. Were seeing it in georgia. Were seeing in michigan. Maybe wisconsin. Maybe nevada. I think the country has woken up and theyre tired of donothing politicians. Or do something thats wrong politicians. And they want to follow arizonas lead, so that we have election integrity. That is so wonderful to see. Because this is what President Trump said all along. Your State Legislatures. Some republican governors, theyre not doing anything. The State Legislatures can do so much. Okay, thats pretty delusional. Granted. But, one of the Pennsylvania Rip Up Republicans in that delegation visiting Maricopa County Estate Center dug mastery on. Up now you may recognize him. He has been the edges of mcgill whirl. Hes a dire trump supporter. He was the former president s point man on trying to overturn his own election in the state of pennsylvania. In fact, in late november senator must run organize a public hearing on the supposed election fraud. The ex president s lawyer, rudy giuliani, participated. And trump senator Doug Austrian also said spent over 3,000 in Campaign Funds to bust Trump Supporters from washington d. C. Ahead of the riot at the capitol on gerry six. You can seem astronaut and his wife here in the crowd at the capitol on the six. Today, mastery otto is out in our zone of trying to run here discoloreds on it. Whats going on in arizona with a Ballot Recount almost seems like kospi. Like a children summer camp where they get to be pretend to be wizards and witches at hogwarts. Theyre bunch of maga volunteers pretended to conduct a recount. Heres the thing, they are doing it with actual ballots. Those are the ballots. Because the Arizona Republicans used the power they have, the machinery of the state to actually turn them over. To a private company and volunteers. So this audit is attacking the most fundamental, crucial cornerstone of a functioning democracy. Weve seen the Republican Party which theyre salt on the moxie in many ways, before the election, in the aftermath of election. And continuing day by day. Through new restrictive voting laws been introduced in almost every state they can control. There is the increasingly aggressive use of gerrymandering, to create situations where republicans wisconsin is one example. Upholding that practice. There are already antidemocratic structures that republicans are leveraging to the fullest. Like the filibuster in the u. S. Senate, which creates this super majority threshold. And of course, there was the actual physical violence at the capitol to overturn a free and fair election. Ultimately, what democracy is legitimacy and the presumption there of. That is what the arizona audit is about. They are trying to destroy that legitimacy. It is what donald trump has gone about destroying. It is what he started destroying when he said barack obama was a foreigner. Constitutionally disqualified from office. They have opened a pandoras box, and we are not going to be able to stuff everything back inside. Listen to me. That may be the longest lasting most threatening development of this radicalization against america see. Especially as it spreads across the country. Do you see this as a mob . In georgia this week, theyre going to have hundreds, if not thousands of these delegates demand to have a full forensic audit, like arizona. Sir, do you think this could work in pennsylvania . And how would you do it . Would you start small, or would you have the whole state . In your mind, to join the leaders of this. How do you see this playing out in the commonwealth of pennsylvania, sir . If were to do the audit in pennsylvania, this is the model to use. All the silly we have a team here leading us here. Theres a lot of Lessons Learned and initially. So i think we can actually affected more fish officially, they saw off the Lessons Learned. That was Pennsylvania State senator doug mastriano. I will see, the guy who went to the capital on january six. Was touring arizona today, being interviewed by Donald Trumps former chief strategist. The guy who got arrested and then got pardoned, so now hes back on his podcast. Breaking the legitimacy of our elections breaks everything else. That is why this become such a central. Point it is why people like steve bannon have been stoking the idea that the litmus test, the thing that measures fidelity to the government, is signing up for this mass delusion. Pursuing it through these toxic needs. The big lie. It fundamentally undermines the legitimacy of american self governance. This was the attack on democracy is all about. And is going to cause levels of damage and destruction that even if advocates cannot imagine. Annemarie slaughter is a professor at princeton. Ceo of the think tank new america. Warning of the threats to american democracy. Ari berman, is and how the gops repeating history. Annemarie, we start with you. As someone who studies this and whos worked in the State Department and worked in the international sphere, i wish these sorts of issues arise all the time. Contested elections, spews about legitimacy. What do you see happening here . I will start by saying if you saw this happening in other countries, as we do, where you have an election and then there is it is certified by all sorts of people. And is clearly free and fair. And then a group decides to try to overturn it, that is a grave threat to democracy in the united and their allies. The liberal, democratic world. That is what we are seeing here. And it is just must harder to recognize it at home. But if this proceeds in the 2024 election, when all neutral observers say there was a free and fair result, these measures would actually allow State Legislators, republican legislatures to overturn the results. If it is not there. Like a and they are doing everything they can to make sure we are not a democracy. We are an older garlicky, an aristocracy, something. Were not everyone gets to vote. And a white majority is preserved. That point about the International Part is important. Because when this story does a rice, in some country that you follow closely and youre not an expert of. And they say there is an election, it was certified, and these people dispute it, i will say i do actually know what the deal is here. Im not following this. And that kind of cloud of uncertainty, when you are not in it, right . If as an outside observer it can be hard to adjudicate. Who actually is right here . Weve seen that abroad and already, weve seen it on our own history . Right, this is precisely the thing that happened in the gym crow. South this attract illegitimacy through means both legal an extra legal, that was the way in which Jim Crew State was constructed. Thats absolutely right, chris. We had multiracial democracy in the United States and it was taken away. Thats what people dont realize. The pattern between the attack on Voting Rights at the end of reconstruction, and the attack on Voting Rights today, is so similar its eerie. You had the enfranchisement of black voters followed by violence, fraud and intimidation, to keep them from the polls. Then you had the legal disenfranchisement of black voters. Through literacy tests, pull taxes, etc, etc. Thats how reconstruction really ended. And thats how jim crow began. And whats happening today is very similar. You had new groups turn out erekat numbers in 2020. To flip states like georgia blue. That was followed by an attempt to overturn the election. An insurrection. Now they are trying to enshrine the insurrection through cool uncle, legal means. Thats when the entire 2020 2021 lead to legislative sessions are about. Trying to figure out legal ways to disenfranchise voters. Because the illegal means failed. And that is the lesson they took from the end of reconstruction. That is how history is repeating itself today. This question about the interplay between laws and legitimacy seems important here and something i before song. Theres a legal regime, right . You can have a Legal Process in which all of the laws are followed. Which is what we had in the last election. Right . It was certified and everyone did their job in the end. But that doesnt the Legitimacy Problems in some ways deep. Or is not necessarily a thing that can be corrected through law. The law serves as a guard rail. The attack on legitimacy is a deeper attack in some ways. Youre absolutely right. Youre right about the election fraud, ill take it where those of us who are outside say well, where theres smoke theres fire. No, this is exactly why we said in international observers. Why there are all these Election Monitors who are certified by many Different Countries and many different parties. And indeed, the International Republican institute and the National Democratic institute typically send delegations together. Here, once you leave the realm of any kind of a free truth, where you can have people believing that our president runs a pedophile ring, your in great danger. Because no amount of certification, no amount of legal, fair, normal, process will suffice. And you have a group who are determined to put that cloud on the election. And then simply to push through ways of overturning what the world and the rest of the country would see as a free and fair election. And murray, you made the point about the State Legislatures which are key players here. That was always the think that trump was banking on. Is where you have some of the most radicalize members of the Republican Party operating. And you are seeing this and now as a cause that various republican State Legislators are taking a. Of course, the thing is the states have already become the republican parties laboratory for subverting democracy. We already dont have a functioning democracy at the state level. In places like wisconsin and michigan. Because elections are already predetermine through gerrymandering. Then you push Voter Suppression on top of that. And the overriding goal of the Republican Party and all of these states has been to subvert the democratic process, over and over again. To bill wall upon wall a puddle. Right . Because theyve already insulated themselves through gerrymandering of Voter Suppression. Now theyre adding more Voter Suppression. And then theyre adding on top of that, being able to overturn elections. So at every step of the process, they have undermine democracy. And this feedback loop, where one antidemocratic facet then intrenches another anti democratic facet of the system. Annemarie slaughter, ari berman, that was excellent. Thank you both for making time for. Us really. Preceded thanks, chris. Weve seen many republicans march for the gilded doors of a maralago. To kiss the ring of the exiled blogger. Eager Kevin Mccarthy with there this week after bidens eggnog ration. Ted cruz, i enjoyed a casual hang with his best. But then theres this guy, we dont know. But according to reporting from my next guest, was involved in something called Patriot Caravans on january six. Who he is, the latest on the insurrectionists, next. Rrectionists, next then they get release back into the air, so you smell them later. Ew right . Thats why febreze created small spaces. Press firmly and watch it get to work. Unlike the leading cone, small spaces continuously eliminates odors in the air and on surfaces. So they dont come back for 45 days. Just imagine what it can do with other odors. Do you have a Life Insurance policy you no longer need . Now you can sell your policy, even a term policy, for an immediate cash payment. Call Coventry Direct to learn more. We thought we had planned carefully for our retirement. But we quickly realized that we needed a way to supplement our income. 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When you have nausea, heartburn, ingestion, upset stomach. Diarrheaaaa. Pepto bismol coats your stomach with fast and soothing relief. And try new drug free pepto herbal blends. Made from 100 natural ginger and peppermint. As of today, the Department Of Justice says 443 people have been charged in d. C. Federal Court Related crimes for the capital. Court filings creating a clearer picture of the people who try to overthrow the government. That day ryan samson of pennsylvania was arrested on january 30th, charged with among other things, forcibly assaulting a federal agent. Prosecutors see sampson, here in the light blue jacket, was one of the very first Trump Supporters to approach police barricade. Surrounding the capitol, while trump was still speaking. They say in the process of pushing the barricades the ground, simpson and others knocked over u. S. Capitol police officer. Causing the officers to hit the stairs resulting in a loss of consciousness. That is her there on the ground. She later blacked out and collapsed and had to be transported to emergency room. Sampson has been in jail since his arrest and today prosecutors filed a motion to keep him there until his trial. Part of that is based on an extensive history of violence. In 2009, simpson was convicted of assaulting a woman and choking her to the point of unconsciousness. In 2011, a condition for choking and beating his pregnant girlfriend. In 2019, a victim recounted several incidents where he broke into her house and assaulted her. She also allege some celebrator multiple times. So, thats just one example of some of the people that republicans and congress do not want to investigate. Because even though that they is over, that person is now in jail, the insurrection is ongoing. This weekend, an indictment against a Militia Group called the oath keepers was unsealed. That Reveal Communications among the saying we want trump to declare insurrection and call us up as the militia. This weekend, trumps former National Security adviser michael flynn, suggested a Military Coup should happen in the United States. Political reporter Hunter Walker reports that just over a month ago, donald trump met with a who helped organize Patriot Caravans around the country to protest at the u. S. Capital on january six. Its not really over, to those over the capital. Or their supporters. Theyre regathering. Hunter walker wrote that story about Donald Trumps Patriot Caravans organizer. He writes the letter the uprising, which i must bribery too. Hunter, tell us about this guy. This guy, his name is jeff brand, that is his real name. He is no stranger to political activism. In the nineties and early 2000s, the l. A. Times reported he was part of this effort to have the San Fernando Valley secede from the city of los angeles. Recently in 2018, he launched this website call cloud hub, and his explicitly framed it as a social Media Network for people who are concerned about quote, censorship. And what that means in practice, its all about qanon and the most popular forums. And the lead up to january six, there were these Patriot Caravans groups, where people were Planning Travel and renting Charter Buses to go to the capital to protest. And most importantly, jeff brain was personally participating in the mail tree Patriot Caravans groups. He had a message pinned at the top of it. He was urging people to go to the capital and also, this cloud up Caravan Group was featured on the website of the right protests. Which is the rally that day which was run by all the alexander of the stop the steal movement. And that is the rally that interim in tandem with trumps rally. And jeff bring site, cloud hub, there was a picture of Trump Supporters feel, this obviously ran before the protests actually occurred. A picture of trump reporters on mass in front of the capitol. A few weeks ago, the Wall Street Journal was reporting on trumps continued ban from many of the major social media platforms. And his itchiness to get out of. That as he seeks a new align megaphone. Jeff brain, the chief executive of a clout cub, a fledgling social Media Network, that has become popular, thinks his company fits the. Bill i imagine we dont know exactly what hes doing down at maralago. The Wall Street Journal reported that he was there and had a brief chat with trump about the president potentially going over to clout hub. According to my source who provided me this photo, he was there at maralago seeking funding for his site. I think thats quite notable because maralago is a generally to get in there you need to know a member, or be a member yourself. The president and his team have not responded to me about how jeff brain ended up there. While he and the president talked about or how long they spend together. I can tell you, we can get a glimpse of President Trumps post president ial life through instagram, and ive been watching him every day almost at maralago. And he seems to participate in these events and fundraisers. Hes often greeting by charities supporters. And not everyone whos there gets a picture of the president. So jeff brain somehow got in there, got close to the president , and this is in spite of the fact that earlier this year, face was unknown think. And i reported on that conjunction with the speech as cpac, the Political Action conference where he participated in a joint event with matt gates. So i find interested it about this is that in spite of the fact he played an active role in the organization of the january 6th protest, hes embraced by republicans all we have to present. Trump well, when you say despite, i would say because. Of right . Whats happened is that that has become, i mean steve bannon has said this clearly essentially the litmus test. This fan guard of dilution of antidemocratic attempt for, that represented by stop the steal. That is essentially a few of a maga control party. Saw a person like Jeffrey Brain would be welcomed with open arms. Yeah. I mean, i have to say i find it is stunning. I was there on general six that day. It was an attack on this country. It was a literal attack on the seat of government. Ive reported on the uprising. People raising read this on the appraising dot info. People Police Records show how many people had guns that. Day a yet, on capitol hill, we see seen people like paul gosar down Louis Gohmert repeat these lies that this was an unarmed protest. They were Quote Unquote like tourists. Its wild to me how much the Republican Party has embraced this violent attack on the country. And also, how much the general public frankly, has done from. This fall what was the slogan for january six. This stunning attack that couldve been so much deadlier, happen on the country. I were just not talking about it. And the plotters and people who are enabling them are just going about in the open. I tell you, im not going to let go of the story. All right, Hunter Walker. Uprising got info. Take a look. Thank you very much. ,. Center for Disease Control shes here to talk about the Big New Federal Push to get the last 10 of adults vaccinated to get to that 70 threshold. Much more. Next. Next for a convenient life hack. Try Febreze Unstopables fabric refresher. With 2 times the scent power of regular febreze, Unstopables Fabric finds, neutralizes and eliminates tough odors trapped in hardtowash fabrics, like couches or smelly sports equipment; leaving an irresistibly fresh scent. And for a tropical burst of freshness, try new paradise scent. Stop sneaky odors from lingering in your home, with Febreze Unstopables. This shot is our shot. 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One pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. Back in march you might remember President Biden had his first primetime speaker and just about covid. They were in d. C. That month before going home. He laid out his plan for a relatively normal summer, right . Highlighting them Fourth Of July post pandemic future was just around the corner. If we do this together, or by july 4th theres a good chance you your family and friends, will be able to get together in your backyard, neighborhood, and have a cookout on a barbecue and celebrated pins day. July 4th, with your loved ones, thats the goal. At the time, the country was still averaging around 50,000 covid cases a day, 1500 deaths a day. Only about 10 of the Company Country was fully vaccinated feasible but definitely ambitious. Now, more than two months later, we are seeing our lowest numbers to the very start of the pandemic. Over 40 of the country is fully vaccinated. 60 of adults have received one dose. The president is shooting for that number to be at 70 by july 4th which is why today, Biden White House announced an all out sprint each that goal. We are announcing a new effort to pull out all the stops to yourself from this virus to get to 70 vaccinated. This could take everyone, the fellow government, state governments, local, tribal, territorial government, private sector, most importantly the mirage people to get to the 70 mark. So we can declare independence from covid19, and free ourselves from the grip it had over our lives for the better part of the year. 70 of adults are first vaccinated and 70 million need to get the shot. Over 7000 a day are getting it. That there were so little and skis when this. Its good to have you on the program. This is what weve seen, a beacon daily vaccination, then a decline. Right now are coming down into this range where were headed towards 500,000 a day. What does todays announcement mean in a practical sense . What changes today to arrest that declined to get us the 60 million shots . Good evening, chris. First, lets celebrate the extraordinary time where we have three very safe, very effective vaccines. We have enough of them. They are distributed all corners of america now to be the due to the american people. So, this is going to be a huge push, through the month of june, to reach that 70 threshold. That means, america working together. That means, safest organizations and Community Based organizations, and businesses, and athletes, and celebrities. Really, Everybody Chipping in to do their part. This is the messaging put instead of an infrastructure and push. You think the obstacle here is essentially messaging . I think its a push in all directions. We are pushing in the infrastructure, trying to work with businesses to make sure that folks have time off, there are lots of businesses that are giving people time off. We are putting in mobile units, popup clinics to reach people where they are. Its messaging and getting to the people. People arent rushing to get the vaccine now, and understanding that will help deliver information they need so they might want the vaccine tomorrow. Theres a good pace with Sarah Johnson who said n who said people are worried that there will be knocked out with the vaccine. Are you, willing to see people get a day off to get the shot . Absolutely. In the day after, if its inconvenient for them to get a journey working hours, to actually get it. If they feel unwell the next day, to make sure theyre feeling better and condemning the next day. We are working with employers and Childcare Centers so that you have access to child care if you cant take your kids as youre trying to schedule your vaccine. Were working in all sectors of the United States to make sure that people the reasons that people may not have gotten the vaccine already, are no longer obstacles for them. That maybe everything from, i cant get, theyre lift and uber can help you get there. Two and dont have access to child care for my kids. I cant get the day. Often enough scheduling. We try to make it easy and give information. We will give you information on whats going on. And another good picture of the concrete number. You guys did an amazing job on tracking doses, the cbc web page is better than it was. How many doses have we shipped internationally . One of we put out into countries . Across the world . The first thing i want to convey is, we very much understand and embrace until everyone is safe. The president reenter the w. H. O. In the first day of his presidency. We are engaged globally. We have a commitment, and a plan, to share 80 million doses of covid vaccines by the end of june and the logistics of that plan. Thats five times more than any other counts the vote would like to demonstrate is the United States not only are sharing, but working to increase Vaccine Production here, and increase the capacity for Vaccine Production across the United States. But a plans not enough. People die every day across the world. Its like how many shots to get in peoples arms . To the credit of the administration, it moved quickly to get shots in arms. It feels like the same urgency is not there. Ive been hearing 80 million doses, working through logistics, we havent ship doses. I want to be clear. Ses. I w we have been here in the United States, to this day, suffered the most deaths anywhere in the world. We need to put our own oxygen masks before we were able to help others. Now we are actively doing that. We are engaged in cdc specifically, with 60 other countries. We have been working, not just in deploying vaccine, but deploying Technical Systems and deploying in training people on the ground in doing investigations. Also, in the work we will need to do to vaccinate people once we have those vaccines. Its not just vaccines we want to supply, but the systems we provided many corners of the globe. Im opening open to complexities i dont understand. I want to get to the bottom of it. There are Tens Of Millions Astrazeneca doses sitting somewhere, they are not going into arms. There are people dying by the day in india, and depaul, and i know things are more complicated than, like just get them to doses. But why . One and a moral complicated . One of those doses in peoples arms . So we are working as inter agencies, to make sure those doses can get out of the United States. We are working closely with the fda to make sure those doses can safely get out of the United States and we secure a plan for how they will be distributed. Are you confident we are going to see the curve that weve seen in this country have been in other countries, this year. There has been a worry we are looking at this extending into 2022, but were seeing one max mass vaccination does. Weve seen in our own country, are you confident were missing more countries that follow that trajectory, that sort of downward the exponential curve in the next six months . I dont think we, has the United States, are gonna be able to cover this around the world alone. What we intend to do is hit an extraordinary number for how we want others to work with us to provide the same support, and donations. We, as the United States, want to set that example. With that example, others leveraging their resources as well, i think we can bend the curve. It will take some time to do it around the world. Doctor rachelle wilenski. She is a very difficult and important job in the center of Disease Control. Thank you so much. Come back anytime. Thank you so much, chris. Next, a warning shop for President Biden to the two Democratic Senators defending the filibuster no matter the cost. Where the party goes from here, coming up. Coming up. [sfx bikes passing] [sfx fire truck siren] onstar, we see them. Okay. Mother and child in vehicle. Mother is unable to exit the vehicle. Injuries are unknown. Thank you, onstar. My son, is he okay . Your sons fine. Thank you. There was something in the road. Its okay. Youre safe now. Its okay. Living with Metastatic Breast Cancer means being relentless. Because every day matters. And having more of them is possible with verzenio. The only one of its kind proven to help you live significantly longer when taken with fulvestrant, regardless of menopause. Verzenio fulvestrant is for hr , her2 Metastatic Breast Cancer that has progressed after hormone therapy. Diarrhea is common, may be severe, or cause dehydration or infection. At the first sign, call your doctor, start an antidiarrheal, and drink fluids. 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Aspercreme with maxstrength lidocaine. Works fast and lasts. Keep it. Youre gonna need it. Kick pain in the aspercreme listen joe bidens public appearances almost never really surprise me. The entire ethos of the white house has been calm, steady, not chaotic. The president yesterday said something that surprised me, quite a bit. Here are the folks on tv saying, why didnt biden get this done . Well, because biden only has the majority of effectively four votes in the house and a tie in senate, with two members of the senate who vote with more my republican friends. Oh, damn. With two members in the senate who vote more with my republican friends. Thats apparently a arizona senator karen cinema. The Voting Record is not true. They have so far voted with biden, 100 on the time. You could imagine, they would not be so happy with him saying that. Both of them are on the record, opposing near repeal with the reform of the filibuster, the 60 vote threshold which is why, on things, voted said when he said. He seemed to be implying that the filibuster puts them in a league with republicans and the project to obstruct and destroy the product. The senator made that literal today by repairing next to john cornyn and raise it raining the opposition to Majority Rule in the senate. I. C. E. Folks in arizona know, ive long been a supporter of the filibuster because, it is a tool that protects the democracy of our nation. To those who say, if we may make a choice between the filibuster and acts, i say, this is a full choice. The reality is, when we have a system thats not working effectively, the way to pitch that is to change their behavior, not to eliminate the rules or change them, but changing behavior. No. This is the fork in the road for democrats. The biden agenda, climate future, integrity, Democrats Use the power that the majority of americans have trusted them with, to repair the country. Where theyre giving him an already rule and reaction to for the degraded mayor can democracy. Its the fundamental choice year. Now, have president obama has jumped into the fray with his thoughts and what democrats need to do about the filibuster, and the repercussions if they do nothing. Thats next. Thats next. Up at 2 00am again . Tonight, Try Pure Zzzs all night. Unlike other sleep aids, our extended release melatonin helps you sleep longer. And longer. Zzzquil pure zzzs all night. Fall asleep. Stay asleep. Managing Type 2 Diabetes . On it. On it. On it, with jardiance. Theyre 22 million prescriptions strong. Meet the people who are managing Type 2 Diabetes and heart risk with jardiance. Jardiance is a oncedaily pill that can reduce the risk of cardiovascular death for adults who also have known heart disease. 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You conducted that interview as are, i want to follow up on the question. Its ambiguous in the interview about whether he is saying, you basically have to deal with the fact that this is the reality, and persuade a majority to get things done or whether he saying the filibuster has rented the country ungovernable. It was a bit ambiguous between the two. Obama yields in paradoxes. The big part of that interview is his willingness to Say Something is true, and the opposite is true. Obama has evolved tremendously on the filibuster. I had this argument during his presidency he was not able to give it up then. He said clearly and if the filibuster is getting in the way in of democracy. Given or there is a lot of advice on democrats in a conversation, what dont you say . What do you do to work in a pluralistic way with people you dont agree with, and how do you come there gaiety so youre able to win the amount of power necessary to govern in a country that require Super Majorities . Megan, i think cinema and manchin are. Wrong about the filibuster, the facts, history, just wrong. If anyone wants to know what it looks like to have a senate like body that doesnt have a filibuster just go to a state, they happen, there it works, its fine. You dont need Super Majorities. That said, what is the leverage . This is part of the problem. You could see joe, biden his exasperations palpable man city culpable want to see got over joe mentioning how do you get them to move . One of his leverages, well do it. Well call it the german share info shipped a package. Not much energy from joe manchin. He seemed genuinely upset that genesis Commission Bill was filibustered and in ultimately went down. Even with bipartisan support. I think for joe manchin, and probably for christians intimates an additional receipt. He cant ask for more pristine recede than a bipartisan bill to establish a commission to investigate an insurrection. Going down even with republican votes. I dont think you could ask for a crisper received the. Joe manchin is looking for an off ramp. It is not want to get rid of the filibuster. And is enigma. She will be subject to the same receptive votive laws that arizona is passing some of these Voter Suppression bills happening. Ultimately she will need to decide, do i play a role in keep my own job by casting the people aqua making d. C. Estate . Do i play a role in that . Ultimately, neither of these two are gonna want to go down in history as the two very specific people that blocked Democracy Reform and other critical pieces of legislation from passing. Great point. This is what the debate is about manchin and sinemas cases and others speaking, up its not really a political inclination. I think they believe it and its a very wrong thing. The question, some people via what were at as this very perilous, it could go other either way moment. Its like you win some election, so you lose some, and i dont know how to move someone from the one place to another . I have so many thoughts. I threw mention in cinnamon to two different categories. Joe manchin is doing a very big thing for the democratic party. Hes winning an impossible seat with by which they dont have a majority and he keeps voting with them over and over again. The fact that joe manchin isnt getting rid of the filibuster in a state where most people voting their leading republican, that doesnt shock me. And englands great word for it, grandstander another great word. They are doing so little to make sure that there dynamics around. Its appalling. I think people want me to say there is a strategy here. People have hope pedal to them. I dont think the filibuster will go away. People dont want to hear that. It doesnt mean things get passed cinnamon mentioned both show of four things that look like the jobs act or other infrastructure bills. In terms of getting rid of the filibuster, democrats go further than i thought. I dont think there is leverage and an obvious pass. I tend to agree with you, but your point about reconciliation is a key one. And then its like, we will come back to passing the thing you think will be best for the country. Theres a great story in the New York Times meghan, about the Object Lesson and when they did that a month ago. They got all 50 votes, they passed a big covid package. They didnt want to lay down, they didnt negotiated down. We are gonna probably had 70 of adults in vaccination. We have pushed the curve down. The countrys opening up. Heres the results from that. The impact of the covid relief bill in the American Rescue plan act. E am this is from census data. You get the 50 votes to pass your agenda, you can do a lot of good. Thats right. I disagree with as, we are no fans, the filibuster will go. I think this is a stark twist. Do you want to do stuff, or do you not want to . Not doing staff in this instance means letting our democracy fall. Thats really how stark it is and where we are. We are at the edge of a cliff. Republicans are ready to pushes right over. At the end of the day, i dont think these two are gonna want to be the ones named in History Books as the ones that let that happen. Its really not that complicated. Just to stuff people. Like there is no constituency in the United States for an archaics role. Election security for vote by mail, there is a constituency for that stuff. Theres no single issue voter. This english was i love old, rules that make no. Since its a matter of principle. Thank you both. Thats all in on them when intervening. Rachel maddow starts right now. Good evening chris. Much appreciated. Thank you athome for joining us this hour. Thank you athome for joinin us this hour movie commercial for it. They called it the beacon of freedom. This is a thing i knew existed. I had no idea they launched it with this short film. But it is worth watching now. It is only like 20 seconds or so. O watch this. First of all, the idea of something being from the desk of someone and that thing also being a fastmoving enough thing