Looking at are what is standing in the way of a full investigation of the attack on our nations capitol. It is the latest evidence that the former party of Lincoln And Reagan is now the party of insurrection, solely focused on party over country, terrified at what the commission might find and that the conclusions would be politically damaging and hurt them in the 2020 midterms. Majority Leader Chuck Schumer addressed this during remarks on the Senate Floor following the vote. This vote has made it official. Donald trumps Big Lie has now fully enveloped the republican party. Trumps Big Lie is now the defining principle of what was once the party of lincoln. We all know what is going on here. Senate republicans chose to defend the Big Lie because they believe anything that might upset Donald Trump could hurt them politically. Weve all lived through the horrors of January 6th. Shame on the republican party for trying to sweep the horrors of that day under the rug because theyre afraid of Donald Trump. Someone else clearly frustrated by the Votes Outcome is west virginias joe manchin. Theres no excuse. Theres no excuses. Its pure raw politics. And its just so, so diss heartening, really. Leader mcconnell has doubled down on politics, able to use the strength he has and the power he has in his caucus to put the fear in reasonable people. These six senators were the lone republicans who voted in favor of moving forward with the independent January 6th commission. Senator pat Toomeys Office Aid he would have voted in favor but missed the Vote Due to family commitment. Prior to the Vote Alaskas Lisa murkowski explained her reason. We just Cant Pretend that nothing bad happened or that people just got too excitable. Something bad happened and its important to lay that out. To be making a decision for the shortterm political gain at the expense of understanding and acknowledging what was in front of us on January 6th, i think we need to look at that critically. Is that really what this is about . Is everything is just one Election Cycle after another . A bipartisan group of former Homeland Security secretaries is also speaking out. In a statement former secretaries tom ridge, michael chertoff, Janet Napolitano and Jeh Johnson write, the Senates Decision to not seek the truth about what happened during an insurrection against the u. S. Government, one of the most dangerous and violent attacks on our democracy in modern memory, is deeply alarming. We must understand how the violent insurrection at the capitol came together to ensure that the peaceful transfer of power in our country is never threatened again. Our representatives owe this much to the american people. Joining me now is one of the signatories of the statement, former Homeland Security secretary under president obama, Janet Napolitano. She is also author of how safe are we. Thank you for joining us. Good to see you. You know, there are some people take took exception to the comparison to 9 11. I dont think anybody was comparing January 6th to 9 11, but they were comparing the need for the investigation into the root causes of something triggered by a form of terrorism. That was different terrorism in 9 11, but there are concerns that this grievancebased Domestic Terrorism is posing a big threat in america. My thought was for republicans if they had looked into that threat, it could actually end up taking attention away from the republican party and Donald Trump and saying, you know what . Theres this thing underlying, theres this underlying threat in america we need to look at and discourage. Well, we will never now. There wont be a bipartisan commission, at least as things stand, and thats really unfortunate. Unfortunate is too mild a term. This was the most serious attack on our democracy really since the attacks of 9 11, and on 9 11, remember, one of those planes was aimed at the capitol and because of the action of the passengers it crashed in pennsylvania instead. On January 6th there was an attack on the capitol, and they actually got inside and caused grievous injuries to a lot of people including a lot of Law Enforcement officers. You know, we need to understand the predicates for it. We need to understand exactly what was going on during the hours that they were occupying the capitol, and we need to understand so that we can better protect and prevent. In fact, your point is welltaken. There was an airplane headed towards the united States Capitol and there has not been that threat against the capitol since 9 11. Theres a series of polls that came out this week that i just want to show you. Theyre about qanon. 15 of americans agree with the statement, the government, media and financial worlds in the u. S. Are controlled by a group of Satan Worshipping pedophiles who run a global Sex Trafficking option. 23 of republicans believe that. Theres another question that said, theres a storm coming soon that will sweep away the elites in power and restore rightful leaders. 20 of americans believe that, 28 of republicans believe that. The storm is language that is used by qanon. The third question says, because things have gotten so far off track true american patriots may have to resort to violence to save the country. Again, 15 of all americans, 28 of republicans. This is a serious problem because this is nonsense that people who are prepared to take up arms in some cases believe. Again, there is something akin to what we were studying with the 9 11 commission to this. People believing Conspiracy Theories that will cause them to do harm to others and affect democracy in this country. For sure. How qanon has been able to take root and even grow, as those polls indicate, is a huge Homeland Security risk, and the department of Homeland Security and others need to really get at the root of that and see what can be done to debunk some of those Conspiracy Theories that are the heart of the Qanon Mantra and to, in a way, prebunk in other words to help better prevent americans from falling for that nonsense. One of the things that happened to your department, Homeland Security, under the Trump Administration is that it became completely possessed with immigration on the southern border, you know, and it worried me because thats not what the department of Homeland Security is supposed to be about. We have real threats, including what we just saw in terms of this ongoing microsoft hack, and dhs needs to be fully concerned with threats to Homeland Security of which this 9 11 not 9 11, January 6th what the department is calling grievancebased domestic security is one of those things. Do you think under Joe Biden there can be a sort of a reset and a recalibration of dhs to actually be focused on the things that are threats to security, not, you know, a part of the Immigration Apparatus in this country . Oh, i think the reset is already underway, and you are so right. Under the Trump Administration dhs should have been named the department of the southwest border. That was the only thing that they apparently were involved in. Now, Border Security is part of the remit of the department, dont get me wrong. There needs to be a focus there, but so many of these other risks are so present and in a way dangerous to the american people. You named some, domestic extremism, cybersecurity, attacks on our nations critical infrastructure like we saw with the colonial Pipeline Attack just a few weeks ago. You know, all kinds of new and evolving risks that the american people through the department of Homeland Security need to be able to understand and confront and mitigate so that we are, indeed, safer. I fear that under the Trump Administration the country actually became less safe because the department of Homeland Security not only was only the department of the southwest border, but it suffered from a lack of stable and continuous leadership throughout trumps term. Secretary napolitano, good to see you again. Janet napolitano is a former Homeland Security secretary under president barack obama. Joining me is former national Committee Chairman Michael Steele, an msnbc political Analyst And Host of the Michael Steele podcast. I enjoy speaking to you so much because you just say it the way it is. You were as straightforward with your feelings towards those who voted against the independent January 6th commission, you tweeted the word pathetic cowards. Tell me what you really thought. Hey, man. It is good to be back with you, ali. This is personal for me, and those two words were just i dont know. That was the only way i could put it, ali, was to kind of say, look at look at the members of my team, you know, guys that i have known and worked with over many, many years who once stood for something, once said something that meant a lot and could mean a lot to people, just buckle. Buckle because mcconnell wanted them to. Buckle because trump wanted them to. Buckle because mccarthy wanted them to. There was no leadership there, and thats what that moment called for. I just dont know, ali. I kind of look at this and just say to myself, where do you go from here, what do you say next to the american people . How do you now come on the other side of this Vote Or Nonvote and say to brian Sicknicks Mother, you know, what . What do you say to her . She walked the halls of our congress trying to get people to do the right thing, to vote to just find out why her son died. And the arrogance yeah, brian Sicknicks Mother is you know, she is like every mother of a slain child. Yeah. Whom i have ever met, not somebody seeking the limelight, not somebody who looked like she had any interest in ever being on tv or in the halls of power, going there to knock on the doors of republican senators to say, please, just support the investigation. She was not asking anybody to support an outcome, to support a decision, to support a finding, just the asking of questions. Exactly. Thats it. Just tell us, just help us find out what happened, because she is representative of all of us, you know. I grew up in washington. I used to hang out with the Capitol Hill Police when i was a kid. You know, back in the day you could just go sit on the steps, you know, and talk and chat. So that my experience with them, you know, was very personal, just like it was for many americans. And to watch what unfolded on that day get just shoved aside and put in a political box to me just was such an enormous slap in the face, to the men and women who serve but to a country that deserves to know what happened. So the Majority Leader said he is going to maybe bring it up for another vote. We will see if hearts and minds change in between. Probably not because it is hardened, you know. Except, except for the respect that those six members of the gop, those six senators got for doing this, and Pat Toomey who said he would have done it. In fairness, many of these are senators who are either not running again or who have made it very clear they have zero need to be affiliated with Donald Trump. I am a little puzzled as to why Mitch Mcconnell you know, i get it. This thing is going to come out at The End of the year if there was a report. It is going to implicate some in the republican party, but it is going to implicate nobody as much as Donald Trump and Josh Hawley and a few members of congress who were active promoters of it. Everybody else could wash their hands of it and say, this is bad, we dont want to be involved in this grievancebased Domestic Terrorism. Oh, yes, you make too much sense, my friend. Thats the logical view of this. But then you throw into the calculation of how the narrative unfolds with an angry grievance, conspiracyoriented base that just wants to strip bear. They take to heart the very words of Donald Trumps emergence into politics in 2016 and his run for the presidency to deconstruct, to deconstruct those institutions, to tear out those individuals who stand in their way. And so that base, that part of the Base Vote still plays a big role in that thinking. So even though, you know, im not up for reelection, you know, in 2022, im fairly safe in my congressional district or my state, they still dont want to be harangued. They dont want to go to a state Central Committee and be sen sured. They dont want to have people sending little ugly notes to their office. They want it to be clean and pristine. Unfortunately, thats not how this works. You have got to get your hands in this if you are going to lead, and you have to push back against what Donald Trump has pushed. Now, what are they going to do . What is this party going to do when Donald Trump starts up his rallies again . They think this stuff just stops. It doesnt. It doesnt get better. Thats the reality and thats why what happened was so sad. Good to see you as always, my friend. Thank you for joining us. Michael steele is former rnc chairman, msnbc political analyst. Dont forget to check out the michael steel podcast. It is great, wherever you get your podcasts. Arizona republicans at it again. You know the partisan recount that is still under way . They dont want to they actually want to do it again. Now texas is closer to enacting new voter restrictions, all based around the falsehood that is Donald Trumps big election lie. Plus, President Biden has ordered a new Intelligence Review of the origins of covid19, including a look at whether the disease originated in a chinese lab in wuhan. That and more coming up on velshi. Tonight, ill be eating fried avocado tacos. [doorbell rings] [doorbell rings] thank you. Ooo. You gonna eat that at lesliepalooza . What . Whos coming to that . Everyones coming, everybody. You, her, me, all of us. When youre born and raised in San Francisco, you grow up wanting to make a difference. Everyones coming, everybody. Thats why, at recology, were proud to be 100 employee owned with local workers as diverse as San Francisco. We built the citys Recycling System from the ground up, helping to make San Francisco the greenest Big City In America but we couldnt do it without you. Thank you, San Francisco. Gracias, San Francisco. Thank you. [ speaks native language ] lets keep Making A Differene together. There are new numbers out this week from the civil Rights Group the Antidefamation League showing an increase of reported antisemitic Hate Crimes in this country following thees Ka Lalgs of recent deadly attacks between israelis and palestinians. The reports there were 5,000 plus incidents of antisemitic from January 22nd until now. Last year there were 327 reported incidents at jewish institutions in total, but in the last two weeks the adl says it received more than 321 reports of antisemitic attacks. In a statement President Biden denounced the incidents, calling them despicable and unconscionable saying, quote, we cannot allow the toxic combination of hatred, dangerous lies to put our fellow americans at risk. I will Noya Lou Our Fellow Americans to be intimidated or attacked because of who they are or the faith they practice. Bricks have been thrown at windows in New York and museums in florida and alaska. They were vandalized and the words we are everywhere. It was announced the Justice Department will increase funding to states to combat and investigate Hate Crimes. While weve seen an increase in Hate Crimes in this country, legislation on antisemitic crimes has not passed yet although several bills have been introduced. You know the Election Recount in arizona that is based off a big, Fat Lie . Republicans in the State Arent satisfied with one sham audit. Theyre going for number two, now. Plaus, movement on the Voter Suppression Bill negotiated in texas. A Texas State Legislator joins me next. Slator joins me next. The Texas Legislature is still negotiating a deal on a huge package of voting restrictions. For over a week democrats and republicans have the Texas House and the senate have been working in Closed Door Sessions on a compromise to sweeping voting legislation. The original Senate Version of the bill would make it harder for people to vote across the board by taking away drivethrough voting, limiting Poll Operations to 9 00 p. M. And closing early. Voting locations in some urban black and hispanic communities. Joining me is democratic State Representative of texas representing the western corridor of Dallas County and chairman of the mexicanamerican legislative caucus. Good to see you again. Thank you for being with us. You and i have discussed this before. This slate of proposals mostly put forward by your republican colleagues in the Texas Legislature are a solution to a problem that doesnt actually exist in texas, this rampant Voter Fraud that some in your state are looking for, but it is something more than that. It is something nefarious. It is a thing that will actually make it harder for close to impossible for some people in your state to vote. Ali, good morning. Thank you for having me on. We have discussed this at length and you have covered it at length. We are seeing the Big Lie arrive at the door of the texas capital. It is part of a slew of vote Voter Suppression Bills we are seeing in state capitals nationwide and we are dealing with it here in texas. What we saw come to the House Of Representatives from the senate was a sweeping Voter Suppression Bill that restricted all kinds of voting, including types of voting we needed to do during the pandemic to keep people safe. The republicans have completely kowtowed to the Big Lie that is widely believed in their base. It is funny. The republican Secretary Of State said our election was smooth, successful and secure. Despite that, we are seeing these repeated attempts at rolling back Voting Rights in a state, candidly, that is already among the most restrictive for voting in the united states and has the lowest Voter Turn out among states, at least in the lowest quentile. We are fighting and we have chipped away at a bad big during the first round when it came to the house. Now we are in the last hours. Still have not seen text from the conferees but we will be watching it all day today. I just add one more thing, ali, and you and i have talked about this before. My parents immigrated to this country in the mid 50s. My dad left fascist spain and my mom is from mexico that had oneparty rule for about 70 years. We as a family really believe in this stuff. We believe that our Democratic Republic is foundational and can only be preserved by the right to vote. So when you see these sweeping attempts to roll back Voting Rights, i mean we dig in and we fight because this is this is really the cornerstone of our republic and we cant let it be chipped away for political gain. I was talking to somebody the other day about the kind of things that are changing for people and why theyre undemocratic. They said, why would any of these things be racist, none of them are actually targeting people of color or black people. I was talking to dr. Hildago the other day. You are in a different county, but in Harris County there are examples of places of people of color who live in a particular area and theres no voting around them. Theyve reduced the number of polling stations, so they now have to travel some distance to vote in another part of the district, sometimes some distance away in a situation where they may be working, there are maybe now longer hours because there are fewer places to vote. These are things tacitly meant to discourage or make harder on the ability to vote. On the surface, nobody is actually taking your constitutionally granted right to vote away, but we are putting impediments in place that will discourage people from voting. Republicans know exactly what theyre doing. The bills never say this is going to hurt black and brown communities, but even in the last decade on Voting Rights matters, both redistricting and strict voter id, and texas imposed the strictest form of Photo Id last decade, three different federal courts found not discriminatory effect but intentional discrimination against the Texas Legislature and thats a damning finding by three different federal courts, d. C. Circuit court, san antone Antonio And Corpus christi, all found intentional discrimination. They have elevated it to an Art Form and theyre doing it again in realtime. Representative, good to see you. I happen to know that your mom does watch us when you are on tv, so greetings to her as well. Democratic State Representative Rafael Anchia of texas. One Election Audit in arizona is not enough so the Arizona State Senate is gunning for round two. The republican led State Senate is close to signing a deal for the second review of maricopa countys 2. 1 million ballots from the 2020 election. This time it would be all electronic using a new and essentially untested technology to scan the original digital images of ballots. This is one tough story to follow, which is why we constantly turn to jen fifield, reporter for the Arizona Republic who got up extremely early for us to help us make sense of this. Jen, what is going on here . You have another audit going on of the same ballots . To the rest of us outside of arizona, it feels like republican State Legislatures are just going to keep counting the maricopa ballots until theres a different outcome. Well, that is what it feels like to me covering this story, too, since november. What is really going on is they said that they want another count. This would be a digital count that might reveal Voter Intents that the hand counters couldnt see. So theyve taken on this company out of California Called Citizens oversight. It is a nonprofit that has been working on technology to do this for two years. It is largely untested. It has been tested in a few places unofficially as a way to audit Election Results in florida and georgia, but those results havent been shared yet from this test. So the only way we can know how well it works is from the quick briefing the reporters, myself and robert england, got from the person who created this technology who says that it is accurate. But this would be, he calls it, the grand test for it. Talk to me about reporting that you did at the beginning of this, before we realized how crazy this was going to get. On an opportunity that democrats had in arizona to challenge this or do something about it and they declined to do so, refresh us on what happened. Well, since november theres been multiple first of all, there were multiple challenges about the election itself. The Trump Campaign focused a lot of the efforts here in arizona to try to overturn the Election Results by proving widespread fraud in the courts. Those were thrown out. Once it came to the fact that the senate republicans were not accepting of the audits the county has done, all of the Court Challenges that have already been dismissed, then it went to a Court Challenge between the County Supervisors and the senate where the senate wanted the ballots to do this additional recount and the county tried to stop them. Now, when a judge said the senate has the power to subpoena these ballots and the voting machines, the County Supervisor said, if thats what the court says, then were going to follow what the court says. Now, a lot of people said that they should have appealed. This is a majority republican body of supervisors, by the way. Theyre not democrats. They decided not to appeal. The threat might have been if they got to a higher court and the higher court ruled that the subpoenas were valid, that could have Set Precedent across this state for this to happen every election. So perhaps thats why they didnt appeal, but we they just wanted to go along with what the court said. Interesting. Jen, thanks again for your detailed and ongoing coverage. Maybe one day, jen phifield, you will get to cover something else but im not sure when it will be. Jen is a reporter for the Arizona Republic. In the fight between goliath in Big Oil, goliath has taken several hits this week. 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Com promo there are big developments this week in the battle between Climate Activists and the Oil Industry with a series of major wins for one side that could have Ripple Effects far into the future. First up, a stunning corporate insurrection at exxonmobil. As Climate Activists have infiltrated the oil giant, winning at least two seats in the corporate Board Room out of 12, exxon lost the two board seats on wednesday to a small Hedge Fund that holds fewer than 1 of its shares. The Activist Firm called Engine No. 1 has the backing of black rock, which is one of exxons top shareholders, and contends Exxon Isnt being aggressive enough with emission reducing measures. Engine no. 1 says exxon Needs Directors to help term the Climate Crisis into a longterm business plan, not a talking point. Exxon is not the only giant losing ground to activists among shareholders, chevron was forced to pledge deeper cuts to its Carbon Emissions after shareholders approved a new resolution this week. Chevron has to reduce emissions in the Production Products and in the product it sells to consumer. Plus, a landmark court ruling. A court in the netherlands ordered royal dutch shell, one of the worlds largest Oil And Gas companies, to cut green House Gas emissions by 45 by 2030 from the 2019 levels. Shell had already committed to reducing its Carbon Footprint but not quickly enough for environmentalists. They took the company to court and the court said Shells Policy was, quote, not concrete and is full of conditions. Thats not enough, end quote. Shell plans to appeal its ruling but it is the first time a court has held an Oil Company liable for its role in causing climate change, and the groups that sued shell believe the ruling could set a new precedent and make it easier to hold Oil Companies to account. After this week it is clear that the Status Quo for Big Oil companies will no longer be accepted. The science is clear. The verdict is in. Climate change is real. Fossil fuels are a big part of the problem. Rather than resisting, the Oil Industry would be wise to get on the right side of this issue. Well, monday marks 100 years since the massacre in tulsa, okay objection, the single most horrific incident of racial terrorism since slavery. A white Mob Destroyed Tulsas Greenwood District known as black Wall Street from the ground and from the air using private airplanes. An estimated 300 people were murdered, thousands left homeless. What was once a prosperous Black Utopia was pill alleged and burnt to the ground. My Friend Tiffany Cross is hosting the Cross Connection from tulsa this morning. Tiffany, you have been talking to descendants of the Tulsa Massacre. Tell me what the centennial means to them. Reporter ali, i am here in the heart of greenwood, the district you were just talking about, where it was laid to rubble 100 years ago, today in fact. There are descendants here who feel theyre very specific on what they think restitution means. I want you to take a listen to two descendants i spoke with. Justice can only come in the form of restitution, reparations and repair. Triple our effect, right . Thats the only there hasnt been any viable solution, right . We still have to get Voting Rights renewed. Thats not even permanent, right. And were looking for permanent, sustainable change, and were not going to get that through any other means. It just hasnt happened and it wont happen. For us as descendants, you know, what would our lives have been if we werent robbed of our generational wealth . You know, i often sit back and ponder about that. I ponder about Laurel Strafford with her greatgrandfather having the nicest hotel as a Black Man in the world. It could have been hilton, he could have been marriott, he could have been the hyatt. So, ali, the last person you heard from dr. Tiffany crutcher, the Twin Sister of Terrance Crutcher who was shot here by Law Enforcement while his hands were up, shot by officer shelby. We will talk to descendants, but theres an interesting conversation we will have. We will talk to white descendants of enslafrs, people whose family enslaved people and what they feel their Role And Responsibility is as america confronts this racial reckoning. It is going to be two hours of fascinating conversations. Look, some of the conversations will be uncomfortable, but we all have to get a bit comfortable in that discomfort to reimagine the country that a lot of people think america already is. The governor of the state you are in does not believe that. In fact, he has signed a law that takes effect on july 1st. Right. That says history that makes people uncomfortable cant be taught. I cant imagine such a thing. History that makes people uncomfortable cant be taught. You are a child of the south where in 1921 there was still sharecropping across the south. There were still people since The End of slavery ended each year without a dollar to their name. The idea you are sitting in a place that was generating prosperity, generating wealth, creating the opportunity for a great future for africanamericans and it was bombed and burnt and yet the governor says cant teach things that make people uncomfortable, thats weird, tiffany. Reporter it is very weird. Let me just say also, ali, tulsa was not unique in its construction, nor was it unique in its destruction. There were black communities all across the country, not just in the South And North as well, that built communities, escaping white violence and they were destroyed. They were laid to waste. Through the years when they were reerected it was done so under the Usa Pez of economic oppression. In greenwood they built a highway through the district so they couldnt rebuild the oasis of opportunity they had before. You know tells au happened in 1921. This is two years after the Red Summer of 1919. Pick a massacre, from chicago, illinois, to atlanta, georgia, to nebraska. We will unpack it in the last two hours and im looking forward to it. I am too, tiffany. Thank you for being there and doing it. It is an important two hours people listen to. We will not ignore our history and if it is uncomfortable, thats the way it is. Tiffany cross, you will catch more of her Cross Connection, americas racial reckoning starting at 10 00 a. M. Eastern on msnbc. The wuhan Lab Leak Theory is catching up to scientists and the media. New evidence suggests many may have overlooked the origins of the coronavirus. How it happened, up next. How it happened, up next people everywhere living with Type 2 Diabetes are waking up to whats possible with rybelsus®. You are my sunshine my only sunshine. Rybelsus® works differently than any other Diabetes Pill to lower Blood Sugar in all 3 of these ways. Increases insulin. Decreases sugar. And slows food. The majority of people taking rybelsus® lowered their Blood Sugar and reached an a1c of less than 7. 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There are some in the Intelligence Community that lean toward the Human Contact with an infected Animal Scenario and some that lean toward the laboratory accident scenario. But, quote, each with low or moderate confidence. The majority of the Intelligence Agencies do not believe that there is sufficient information to assess one to be more likely than the other. This all comes after the Wall Street journal reported on intelligence that three researchers from the wuhan Intelligence Institute of virology were hospitalized in November 2019 with covidlike symptoms. Chinese officials have criticized the call for an investigation, accusing the united states of politicizing the pandemic. Officials from the World Health Organization agree, suggesting that investigations into the origins of covid19 are being poisoned by politics. But the World Health Organization has been repeatedly accused by World Leaders of allowing the chinese government to avoid a thorough investigation into the origins of the virus. A majority of scientists still believe the most likely explanation out of wuhan was due to exposure at a seafood market. Joining me now is pulitzer, Polk And Peabody award winning Science Writer Laurie garett. She is a bestselling author and she is an msnbc science analyst. She has been with me since the beginning of this thing. Laurie, let me just ask you, it does seem that the science is either evolving or shifting on this one. Where are we now in how we believe that covid got out into the world . Well, ali, theres absolutely nothing new. This claim of three sick people in the lab, that was a claim that came out from the Pompeo Administration of the State Department, leaked long ago. There have been numerous claims and counterclaims. Almost all of them originated within the State Department under pompeo. And, in truth, the w. H. O. Investigation which has been much derided and demeaned, is actually only meant to be phase one. Phase two was supposed to be getting under way now with specific studies being executed at the request of w. H. O. Scientists at Blood Banks across all of china, looking for evidence of infections anywhere in the country in the fall of 2019, even the summer. But all of this, everything about phase two is on hold because of the political climate which has become so toxic. Ali, i have been in meetings all week with top china analysts, with top scientists, with folks who were actually on the ground in wuhan in january, with people who have been in the w. H. O. Investigation team. I can assure you that everybody is deeply concerned about how horribly, horribly politicized this has all become. How it is being used as a tool and a cudgel from one political side in america to other, and from one political side inside the Communist Party Of China to another. None of this is in the interest of the world stopping this epidemic. We do need to know where this virus came from. So here is the question. Donald trump was full of lies and misinformation. We know that. But one of the things that he said was that china developed this virus in a lab, somehow released it or weaponized it. He used the term, sent Tens Of Thousands or hundreds of thousands of people on planes to the rest of the world. It sounded very deliberate and malicious. He also accused the World Health Organization of being in the Back Pocket of china. To what degree did we, meaning the whole scientific and medical and journalistic community, Discount Everything he said because he lied so much, but there might have been kernels of truth in any of that . Im not suggesting that china weaponized this thing or sent people overseas or the World Health Organization is in the Back Pocket of china, but maybe everybody involved in this was a little more responsible than we gave them credit for being. As you said, there were many lies put out in early days as it was a party in the trump White House as noted in some Mike Pence opeds explaining how it was about deflecting from mistakes made in fighting the epidemic from the Trump Administration itself, and putting the blame on china and trying to come up with a different scenario. Of course, most reporters at the time were focused on, is trump telling the truth or not. Now we have a different level of debate and discussion, and it is independent of trump, but many of the people leaking information come from the Trump Administration and are leaking things that weve known before, thanks that weve heard before and things that the scientific community has disputed. Nobody is really talking about the nittygritty details of the dispute going on amongst scientists about the actual genetics of the strains in circulation right now and when did they originate. We can actually trace back in time by looking at the genetic tree of diversity of new strains of covid as we go over time, and we can see that there were already two very distinct patterns of distribution back in january, the wuhan. And so that tells us that there were two different strains of circulation going on, probably in different animal markets, not just the one animal market. Wuhan had several live animal markets. And, you know, i want to remind people that one of the things that really has distressed me is that a lot of the conversation is about bogus findings in laboratories where one group, Nicolas Wade former New York times reporter will say theres this particular little spot in the genome of the virus that can only happen if you manipulate it, it cant happen in nature. That turns out to be completely bogus. Multiple versions of coronavirus is with that specific change exist in nature. What bothers me is that nobodys really talking about what we learned from sars in 2003. Unlike 99. 9 of the people who are Spouting Off right now about the origins of covid, i was there. I was in the animal markets. I saw in guanjo where the virus came from. I tracked it through guanjo, through the Restaurant Industry all the way up to taiwan to a corrupt Party Official and spread it and took it with his driver who died driving him to a hospital in beijing and traced the whole pattern of how it spread. And that definitely came from animals. It was definitely about sivits and definitely about bats. We have to stop lying and we have to figure out where it came from so we can prevent future pan dem mix. Always great to talk to you. You are the first person to ever say civic. Laurie is a Peabody Award winning journalist. Columnist for foreign Policy Magazine and a whole lot of other things. She is our friend and shes been covering this literally from the beginning. Longer than anybody i know. Coming up next, how the Wuhan Lab developments may or may not reshape Americas Relationship with china. Stay with us. New Pronamel Mineral boost helps protect teeth against everyday acids. Pronamel boosts enamels natural absorption of Calcium And Phosphate helping keep teeth strong, white and protected from sensitivity. New Pronamel Mineral boost things you start when youre 45. Coaching. New workouts. And screening for Colon Cancer. Yep. The american Cancer Society recommends screening starting at age 45, instead of 50, since Colon Cancer is increasing in younger adults. Im cologuard®. Im convenient and find 92 of Colon Cancers. Even in early stages. Im for people 45 plus at average risk for Colon Cancer, not high risk. False positive and negative results may occur. 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We dont really know what china did, whether it was irresponsible, whether the spread of coronavirus was inadvertent or as Donald Trump or Mike Pompeo implied, it may have been deliberate. Regardless, china is something the american president has to deal with now. How are we supposed to deal with this . Number one, nobody thinks its deliberate. Nobody thinks other than Conspiracy Theorists that the chinese intentionally released anything, but as the Economist Magazine came out a couple of days ago, there is no Smoking Bat and after three months of serious study, its very unlikely the biden administration will come up with the Smoking Bat. And the reason for that is because the chinese government has completely obscured the ability of international scientists, including the World Health Organization, which has been blamed by so many for being in beijings pocket, they havent given w. H. O. Access to the chinese labs. They havent given them enough access to be able to complete their investigation. W. H. O. s leadership has come out and said that, so, ali, i think what the problem is were going to end up having a Saddam Hussain weapons of mass Destruction Type Moment where we have many, many good reasons to not believe what the chinese government is saying to us. But that will not tell us anything about where the virus initially came from. Just as it didnt tell us whether or not there were actually Weapons Of Mass Destruction in iraq. The chinese government has very good reasons to obscure the Wuhan Institute from us internationally because we now know that they were engaged in all sorts of research that they didnt have suitable Biosafety Protocols in place. Thats going to make them look bad irrespective of what was or wasnt going on. They dont trust the united states around us. We dont trust them. This is Set Up to make the relationship between the worlds two most powerful countries much, much worse. So the larger question is one that literally you and i have talked about for years and you wrote a book about. And that is how we look at china right now, as ally or adversary. China is up to no good. Theyve increased and added sentences to protesters in Hong Kong. They are on a weekly basis flying airplanes over taiwan in what looks like an effort to soften the place up for some sort of a takeover. They continue to run Labor Camps that the world is learning more and more about in the Western Parts of china. What are we supposed to do about china . How do you see china . No one sees them as an ally, but a lot of people see them as both important and useful. Remember John Sana who from Fast And Furious who came out and was so apologetic about inadvertently calling taiwan a country, which it is, because he wants to keep Making Money in china. You know, lebron james, who is enormously woke in the united states but dont talk about Hong Kong or the chinese communist party, suddenly its very, very different. These are heroes in the united states. There are very, very deep vested interests in the u. S. And in china that are interdependent with each other economically. Thats going to continue. But if you ask about the government, whether its republicans or democrats, we saw just a few days ago curt campbell, the asian czar, deputy national security adviser, he said publicly that the era of engagement is over. Now, i mean, the u. S. Government overwhelmingly sees china as an adversary, but we can say that engagement is over. We are still going to be engaging with the chinese and that is yes. The fact that there is enormous friction between those two things is going to cause all sorts of problems for all of those companies and individuals that continue to do a lot with the worlds soon to be largest economy. Whenever we talk to you we should just put a thing of your name, ian bremer, its complicated. As always, thank you very much for giving us some analysis into complicated matters. Ian is the president of our Asia Group and g zero media. Im going to talk to ohio republican governor Mike Dewine about his million Dollar Idea to get people vaccinated. Do not go anywhere. A very, very special edition of the Cross Connection with Tiffany Cross starts right now from tulsa, oklahoma. Good morning, everybody. Im Tiffany Cross. Nearly 100 years ago today where im sitting right now was reduced to rubble after a white mob attacked the predominantly black Greenwood District of tulsa, oklahoma, killing up to 300 people. Now unfortunately the Tulsa Massacre was not an anomaly coming just two years after the Red Summer of 1919 where dozens of cities were subjected to white violence. Thats why were broadcasting live from tulsa, oklahoma, this morning for this very timely special. The Cross Connection, americas racial reckoning. The violence endured 100 years ago and the lack of Government Response foretold much of the