The ongoing movement to undermine the election of 2022, state by State Trumpist Push to replace the people who held the line in 2020. Then europes socalled last dictator using a Fighter Jet to stop a Passenger Airplane and arrest an journalist, increasing boldness of autocrats. Note of caution over the Wuhan Lab theory. And what looks like real progress on bipartisan reform bill. All in starts now. Good evening, im chris hayes. Lot of news on the democracy front. Weird thing to say but in 2021, possibly most important beat there is. Our democracy survived awful assault this year when rioter descended to everturn the results of free and fair election. Were still sifting through what happened. Every day, day after day, if youre attuned to this beat as i am and we are on the show, more and more evidence of the fundamentally dangerous and antidemocratic orientation of the Republican Party across all factions. Case in point, Liz Cheney of wyoming, former chair of the house republican conference, ousted for the simple act of telling the truth. Admirably refused to pretend the election was stolen from Donald Trump, denounced it as a lie. And yet in new interview with Jonathan Swan of axios, supports State Republicans implementing voting restrictions, which a strategy of the big lie. You dont see any linkage between Donald Trump saying the election is stolen and republicans in all the state legislatures rushing to put in place the restrictive Voter Laws . I think you have to look at specifics of each of the efforts. What was big problem in georgia that needed to be involved by new law . What was the big problem in texas . What was the big problem in florida . Theyre coming all over, what are they solving for. I think you have to look at all the laws. You Cant Divorce them from context, come on. But what we can agree with, what is happening now is really dangerous. Brad raffensperger, one of the most morally upright republicans in the chaos. Zealously defended integrity of the election and recounts in georgia and resisted Donald Trumps multiple attempts to bully him to affect the outcome but hes endorsed the new laws. Heres another example. Republican Governor Doug Ducey of arizona, on the Receiving End of Donald Trumps venom after the election, same thing, railing it was stolen, wanting him to overturn it. Tried to bully him to do more to steal the election in the state where trump lost. Ducey brushed Donald Trump off, famously silenced a Phone Call from the White House with a Custom Ring Tone while in the act of signing papers certifying the election results. But like cheney and raffensperger, he signed restrictive voting laws, limit when voters can fix a Signature And Purge infrequent voters from the rolls. And in arizona, recount of ballots in Maricopa County resumed after they going slowly, had to take a break in the arena they were working, but back at it and other states are following. Friday a judge in georgia ruled that Absentee Ballots in Fulton County Atlanta could be unsealed and viewed. 61 believe the president was stolen and 53 believe hes true president right now. Interesting philosophical question about what that means. Doesnt help that representatives of congress are pushing the lie every day. Lauren winsor of the undercurrent, goes in to talk to members of congress. Pretended to believe the big lie. Expectation that arizona will be the launchpad to Election Integrity. Gaetz is talking about arizona the template for rest of the country. What can we do in states across the country to protect Election Integrity . What are the states to launch other audits . I mean we could do it every state. Because what youre doing is what are the most important ones that will make a difference . Michigan, wisconsin. We have to defend our president. Michigan, wisconsin, pennsylvania, georgia, arizona and is there anything . We have event tomorrow. Thank you. Joe biden did not win this election though. Weve got to keep fighting. We do. Can we actually change this . Can we defend President Trump from arizona . Call your state senators. We will. We definitely will. Staffer there, i think sensing something was amiss in that interaction, but gosar is forthright, saying these are the states to do it. One fringe, but near unanimity in the Republican Party across the fractures despite the fighting, Raffensperger And Cheney to marjorie taylor greene, to manipulate the ballot and control the electorate as much as possible. Its become arguably number one Policy Focus for entire party at State Level and its dangerous and going to get more dangerous. I want to bring in Jonathan Swan who interviewed congressman Liz Cheney for axios on hbo. I love the way you phrased that question, all the details are different, iowa reduced polling time by Hour But Question of what theyre solving for, No One can answer, particularly in florida, said we ran a great election, Donald Trump won, all worked. Then they have to pass something. Right. And fact is there are more than 400 of these bills introduced since the election. 90 of them primarily predominantly pushed by republicans. Its not like its one state, its happening across the country, happening in almost every state. Some are getting passed, and the details are different. There is a common thread throughout these, many of the provisions in the laws responding directly to some of the concerns that Donald Trump has raised. Its just not plausible to say theres not a connection. Theres obviously, evidently a connection between Donald Trump lying about the election and these laws being implemented. Yeah. And i also thought it was interesting about the exchange you had with congresswoman cheney, it showed something else weve been saying on the program. There is no definition in which that congresswoman is a heterodox member of the Republican Party. Not a contrarian, doesnt have all sorts of different views, shes in sync with the Republican Party, Voting Record shows it, way she thinks about politics, comes from republican royalty, essentially. Only transgression is on a factual matter about what happened in the election. Yeah. And really important point, chris, ive seen polling that showed that 70 of republicans, i think you showed 63 , but 70 consider Joe Biden to be illegitimate. Didnt come because of one event where trump said the election was stolen. This was the soil fertilized for years and years and years of republican elites and elected officials telling their electorate that fraud is rampant, its everywhere. People in inner cities voting four times, illegal immigrants, all this stuff. Thats how you get 70 believing that. Soil was fertilized. What i found interesting about Liz Cheney interview, she refused, i put it to her and she refused to accept or acknowledge that. But its obviously true. Could have most talented demagogue in world and cannot get people to believe something as profound as that. The soil was fertilized for this. I think youre totally right. And speaks to the question of how much continuity and how much discontinuity. Impulses were there. The voting Rights Act struck down by the Roberts Court in 2013 i believe if im not mistaken, and these bills start creeping up in the vacuum before we ever get to Donald Trump. Yeah. The provision was key provision of federal oversight was gutted out of the voting Rights Act of 2013 and youre right, bills started to pop up. But intense period is right now and its absolutely in direct response to Donald Trump. I found it interesting that Liz Cheney has made the decision to put January 6th and Donald Trump in this fortress with huge walls around it and basically said im not accepting there was really any context that led to this, and not accepting these actions taken after are connected to this. Its a very curious decision shes made. Final point here. I know this is something youve done reporting on, your colleagues have, and we have. You cant overstate at grassroots level, Republican Party in the states, a cadre, a small vanguard of folks but this is what theyre obsessed with, what theyre thinking about, mobilizing folks to go to rallies. Still like a dog with a bone with this stuff. 100 . And you see it in so many different ways. But big way is the fundraising. Exactly. Elected officials are using this message to raise tens of millions of dollars, its what is energizing the grassroots of the party. Thats why George P. Bush getting call and tweeting it in his car. Thanks jonathan. Democratic congresswoman who serves on the Homeland Committee joins me now. Where do things stand now on the commission specifically . I think there were more defections from republicans than the Worstcase Scenario but still nowhere near majority of the caucus. How do you see it playing out going forward . Feel more optimistic in last 48 hours, Susan Collins and romney and others saying they will vote for it. I think its really important that Leader Schumer is going to put it to a vote no matter what. Have people be on the record, vote on it, let the country see what you voted on. I think i have more positive feeling this week its going to pass. Your district is a pretty swingy district, and im curious just what your i know youre relatively new to congress, and been pretty focused interlocutor with the folks you represent, im curious how remote the democracy fears feel to folks coming off one of the worst years in american life in some ways and how much you get questions about it, how much its front of mind from republicans or democrats. I dont think this is first thing that average person in district is thinking about it. It is the first thing that elected republicans, many of them, not all, are talking about. We have to really make a distinction between folks who might have real ideological differences with democrats. Lifelong republicans with a different view of the role of government in our lives, and different category of people who literally believe were in Ray Culture War and shouldnt be any rules, they can dismantle democracy if it means winning that war. Vast majority of michiganers are rational people who just want their government to run, especially after covid. But do you think the the question is whether delivering on concrete promises can help or whether people find a way to hate it every way. Lot of positive indicators, vaccination rates, covid transmission, particularly in michigan. Spike you had has come way down, on the way to suppression, are you hearing from the folks in your district, oh, inflation, deficit, all the Code Words packaged specifically to republicans in opposition to whatever agenda democrats are taking on now . I mean what im hearing about are things that people feel on the ground. They want to get back to normal, want an economy that supports that. Lot of Business Owners are struggling to fill their jobs and theres legitimate reasons for that. I am hearing a lot of that. I do think that people understand that they are getting a lot of relief coming into the state. They are about to feel the real impact of the covid relief package. Well do an infrastructure package, those are real things. In michigan we cut local budgets in last recession and never recovered. Concrete money coming in for Water Systems and infrastructure will be a big deal here. Does that is that something that bridges the divide . Traditionally used to be the case those would be things that michigan caucus would get together and discuss in fairly bipartisan way. Do those discussions still happen or have the relationships gotten so frayed in the aftermath of what weve seen . No, you know what, during covid i spent more time with local republican officials than previous two years. I think that dont forget that the local communities are the ones where the rubber hits the road and people were feeling the pinch. Talking to mayors and town supervisors, doing regular Zoom Meetings in way we didnt beforehand. I was working hand in glove with them and rarely got super political, very rarely. Continues now. Spent saturday walking around local community, flower fair with local republican official, we have different opinions but not differences on the role of democracy. You sound encouraged. Think schumer is going to bring to vote and sound like its not dead in the senate as far as you can tell. No. I dont think so. I mean its tough and shouldnt have to be this tough. Weve talked about this. Literally encourage members to read it. Cut and Paste Job from the 9 11 commission. If youre against commissions, you must have had opinions against the 9 11 commission, its Cut And Paste job. It should past. Lovely Evening Light in great state of michigan coming through the windows, i appreciate it. Have a good one. Will the guardrails that stopped trump from stealing the election be in place next election . Push to put Trump Loyalists into crucial election roles after this. 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[sfx psst psst] ready for an Athome Treatment with dramatic results . Allergies dont have to be scary. Spraying flonase daily stops your body from overreacting to allergens all season long. Psst psst all good oh dont burn down the duplex. Terminix. We know how much you count on us. And thats why were here 24 7. Dont burn down the duplex. And On The Road maintaining a fast and reliable network. Were always working to ensure the internet meets your needs. By making access easier for all. With comcast Lift Zones and our Internet Essentials program. Were invested in making our apps easy. To give you personalized assistance around the clock. And were committed to keeping our team and customers safe by working from home. And using precautions in store. See what were up to at xfinity. Com commitment in 2020 when it came to defending the legitimacy of the president ial election, secretaries of state held the line. Jocelyn benson pushed back about already debunked Conspiracy Theories. Kathy buick far in pennsylvania, sued by Trump Campaign by certifying the election, Katie Hobb who received death threats. Republicans like only statewide Office Holder censured by her party by not validating the big lie. And Brett Raffensperger who President Trump tried to strong arm into finding him the winner. Guardrails that Saved American Democracy for now. Next year 24 states have Secretary Of State elections. According to piece by politico, some of those running tried to overturn the 2020 election. Campaigns that set up the possibility that politics who have taken steps to undermine faith in american Election System could be the ones running it. Great piece putting together dots weve been Pay Attention to. Who are the candidates throwing hat in the ring for Secretary Of State which tends to be kind of thing aspiring politicians who want to move up to statewide Office Go for not necessarily because theyre saying im election administration person, it is a stepping stone. What are you seeing on the ground . Candidates across the country get early start to the race. Not huge surprise that Secretary Of State is not traditionally top of the ticket race. Would be shocked if many viewers could name them pre2020. Going to change this year, going to be historic year. What weve seen early so far, republican candidates talking about or in the race about running for Secretary Of State who havent accepted the results of the 2020 election and have gone further and actively sought to undermine legitimacy of president bidens victory. Georgia is biggest example, he has the former president s endorsement. But others as well. I didnt know a lot about representative mark finchem, a State Rep in arizona who is going to run. Want to play this sound. Maricopa County Board of supervisors, the republicans who had had enough, disgusted with this Recount Effort and attacks on the integrity, and one called Him Out by name. Play that tape and you can explain who he is, what hes up to. Take a listen. Mark finchem is running for Secretary Of State, prosecute that. If the election was completely fraudulent as he says, why would you run for Secretary Of State . What do you think dominion is going to rig it in your favor this time . Why are you running if you do not believe in these elections . I would suggest that his actions speak a lot louder than his words. Who is he . Representative finchem is a arizona State Representative, one of the largest proponents of the audit, for lack of better term, in arizona. Audit run by State Senate has been ripped apart by actual election officials as a scam and dangerous, sowing distrust. Representative is not running it but a proponent of it and basing secretary of State Campaign off that audit. Sometimes phrases it as just asking questions, sometimes he says there was fraud in the 2020 election. But hes using this audit to launch his campaign to challenge democratic Secretary Of State Katie Hobbes. One thing we saw in the election, why these things are important, people tend not to pay a lot of attention to the bureaucratic procedure by which votes are transferred into a declaration of who won. But theres a lot of points in the process where an elected official acts in ministerial capacity to just vouch, stamp, the Secretary Of State certifying is one of them. Just say we counted votes, this person won. Got to ask what happens if Secretary Of State animated by Conspiracy Theories or partisan vitriol says no, were not recognizing it. We dont know what would happen if Secretary Of State said no, im not signing off. This goes down the chain as well. Forget about secretaries of state, think about locally elected County And City clerks, very low profile positions, thats the people doing the Vote Counting too. If somebody with those beliefs gets in that spot as well. All these Pressure Points that people didnt think of before 2020 because we hadnt had a reason to. Now exposing the potential points that could be driven in and be dangerous, frankly. Do you find your Reporting Symmetry of interest between the two parties or become a Focal Point for a particular, very maga central faction of the Republican Party as opposed to other factions of the Republican Party or democrats. If you asked six or eight months ago, would be a different answer. But secretary benson, prominent in michigan. For a lot of democrats, she has become a household name. Folks working for both sides on the election expecting 2022 to be maybe one of the biggest Secretary Of State years ever. More money and more attention and outside groups. Not like not paying attention. After 2020, democrats and republicans of all stripes are watching the races. Wont sneak up like in the past. Good point, really good reporting, zach, thanks for making time. Thank you, chris. Coming up, international outrage after europes socalled last dictator hijacks a plane to arrest a opposition journalist. That unbelievable story, next. E. Dont mess up your deck with texmex. Terminix. Here to help. Eh uh, Eh Uh terminix. Flow Oh My Gosh where Man Go Oh My Gosh if a man see me Oh My Gosh i guess you never know what you got til its flow Oh My Gosh where Man Go Oh My Gosh if a man see me Oh My Gosh i guess you never know what you got til its Eh Uh, Eh Uh Eh Uh, Eh Uh Eh Uh, Eh Uh Eh Uh weve got em on the ropes. The billionaires buying elections. The corporate special interests poisoning campaigns with dark money, frantic to preserve bigmoney politics as usual. Because the for the people act is on the verge of becoming law. Reining in corporate lobbyists, finally banning dark money, and protecting our freedom to vote. Billionaires and special interests, your day is nearly done. Because its time for the people to win. Is your family ready for an emergency . You can prepare by mapping out two ways to escape your home, creating a supply kit, and including your whole family in practice drills. For help creating an emergency plan, visit safetyactioncenter. Pge. Com this academic year has been, um, challenging. But i think theres so much success to celebrate. Woman its been a year like no other. Man yet, for educators across california, the care, compassion, and teaching has never stopped. Woman addressing their unique needs. Man . And providing a safe Learning Environment students could count on. Woman join us in honoring the work of educators. Together, we will build a better california for all of us. A little preparation will make you and your family safer in an emergency. A Weeks Worth of food and water, radio, flashlight, batteries and first Aid Kit are a good start to learn more, visit safetyactioncenter. Pge. Com within the last Hour President biden called for international investigation after outrageous incident this weekend. Government of belarus basically hijacked commercial airliner flying between two European Countries and kidnapped passengers off it. Landlocked European Country, achieved independence when the ussr collapsed. After a few years and first election, Alexander Lukashenko took power and has been ruling ever since, winning five more elections, none deemed free and fair by credible observers. Closest ally is russian president Vladimir Putin. After he got 80 of the vote last year, thousands of belarusians took to the streets and crackdown was brutal. Estimated 35,000 people have been detained since august. This weekend his regime arrested another protester. By calling in fake Bomb Threat to the commercial airliner he was on and diverting the flight with Fighter Jet. 26yearold Roman Protasevich is a dissident journalist who had been living in lithuania. Flew to greece to meet opposition member, boarded plane to return to lithuania, and the flight took him over belorussian Air Space and ruler sent Fighter Jet to intercept the flight minutes before it would cross into lithuanian Air Space. According to his own press service, he personally ordered the jet to escort the plane to Minsk Airport after a Bomb Threat. After the flight landed, the journalist started panicking, said it was because of him, facing the death penalty. Arrested with girlfriend and three other passengers believed to be members of the Security Services still called kgb also got off the plane. No explosives were found, plane was eventually allowed to leave. Video was released on Social Media appears to show the journalist, hostage style, confessing to crimes that would carry a long sentence. Unclear what will become of him. And clear that europes last dictator has stepped over a line. Using Fighter Jet to stop commercial aircraft flying from one European Country to another is transgressive act. Covered russian and neighboring countries, correspondent for gq, she joins me tonight. For folks who monitored this a little bit in the back of their News Consumption and know a little bit about lukashenko, the brazenness is shocking. Your reaction . When i saw the news yesterday, my jaw hit the floor and took me a while to compose myself and get the jaw back on my face. Incredible, not just calling in fake Bomb Threat from hamas, using the israeli Palestinian Conflict for his own aims, sending Fighter Jet to force civilian airliner to land outside of the European Union to arrest a 26yearold Journalist and his girlfriend. Its just breathtaking. I cant tell if it shows desperation or confidence. Confidence you can get away with it, desperation, so focused on one 26yearold Journalist, such a threat you need to get him. What does this mean to you about lukashenko and his relationship to the eu and russia . I think Lukashenko And Putin are now in this phase where, you know, if any gloves were on any point theyre off and thrown away and long gone to the city dump. This is a fight for his survival after the August Election that was widely believed to be rigged and the mass protests, biggest in belaruss history swept the country. He cracked down really hard as you said. Arrested tens of thousands of people, many of whom, including the leaders of the opposition, remain in jail. People reported being tortured, raped, threatened with mock executions, and this also comes today, lukashenko signed a really insane media law, banning journalists from covering unsanctioned protests. Protests against lukashenko, you Cant Cover as journalist. If you get fined, you Cant Crowdfund your fine. Not allowed to hyperlink to banned information, Cant Run media organizations from outside the country. Also see this happening inside russia. Unprecedented sweep against all kinds of journalists for just covering antikremlin protests, also using similar tactics equating the opposition with terrorists and extremists Ala Isis and Al Qaeda and the taliban. These are men who want to stay in power at any cost and are throwing away any pretense that was left, and any even nods to democratic norms. And putin its clear hes obsessed. I dont think crazily so, Domino Theory of everything, ukraine sent him around the bend, hes expressed in his own words and seems to believe theres a vast u. S. Led conspiracy to Overthrow Regimes on his doorstep and each that goes threatens him and imperils russia. Clearly hes invested in lukashenko and absent that investment, hard to imagine something this brazen happening. Theyve had up and down relationship. Putin isnt always happy with lukashenko and viceversa, they step on each others toes quite a bit. He timed this poorly to coincide with big meeting of Eu Heads and they responded by isolating belarus, no flights can fly over, no flights coming out of belarus can land pretty much anywhere in europe. Affects russian travelers used to traveling to ukraine through minsk because there are no flights anymore between kiev and moscow. I think it shows the limits that west has. Going to put in sanctions. Already known as last dictator of europe. Are already a bunch of sanctions on him and on putin. If you have russia and maybe china in your corner, does it matter that much what u. S. And eu do . Really good point. Just showed the clip that European Union began severing the Air Connection to western europe. Has some teeth to it. But i was thinking about jamal khashoggi, murdered in foreign capital, not his own country. A nato capital. And crackdown on the Hong Kong protesters happening in the open. Testing of the sanctions and condemnation is broader global phenomenon than just Lukashenko And Putin. Really says what is going to stop you. Yeah, if you look at belaruss main trading partners, its mostly russia, ukraine, a little bit of poland, and way down at bottom is germany, netherlands, et cetera. You can impose some sanctions but theyre not trading with you that much anyway. Other thing is Vladimir Putin has been talking about this, said it in munich in 2007, he was working toward a multipolar world, where not there wasnt just one country, i. E. , the u. S. , calling the shots, and hes getting it thanks to china and his own actions. Waters down the power of any punitive measures that washington and brussels could take. Julia, that was illuminating, thank you so much. Thank you. Next, why the Wuhan Lab Leak Theory isnt the Smoking Gun conservatives think it is. What we do and do not know about the origins of covid19, after this. Certified from headlamp to tailpipe. 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With 589,920 dead americans, at what point does president biden say we dont want to wait for the w. H. O. , we dont know what theyre doing, needs to be americanled effort to get to what happened . This notion called the Lab Leak Hypothesis by some is not completely insane. Though we dont have actual, direct, concrete evidence for it being the case, but idea as reflected in the reporting from the Wall Street Journal yesterday is some employ owes of the wuhan institute, place that studies these viruses, in animals and cross over to humans, some were hospitalized in fall of 2019, which would be early in development of the epidemic with covidlike symptoms. Because working with diseases that cross over from animals to humans like sars, if through a tragic accident one of the employees not a Bioweapons Labs but public health workers trying to get arms around this, one of them contracted the animalborne virus, maybe theyre the vector and would go on to become covid19. As i said, some suggestive Data Points like the Wall Street Journal reporting that makes it plausible, its not impossible. There was early speculation it was bioweapon but thats implausible, the Genomic Sequences tells us its not. World Health Organization said no hypothesis is off the table. Real answer is we dont know concretely for a bunch of reasons, partly because chinese government is not touring everyone through the origins of this thing. But All Indicative of the strange Narrativefirst Approach of the conservative Medias Coverage of the virus from the beginning. Since january of last year, bizarre twists and turns put ideologically useful story first like chinese government is bad or our heroic president has found the Miracle Cure in Malaria Drug and that impulse is ubiquitous and could be contagious for all of us, with Covid And Anything else, to try in good faith with rigor to assemble the facts and see what social and political implications are after you have handle on that. If chinese government released it, horrible and more proof. But also covid is not that bad and liberals are crazy for overreacting to the flu. Narrative failures of rightwing. Its not exclusive to them. But impulses suffuse all of us, speaking to myself who does it for a living. Object lesson not to view the world through a set of facts that may or may not be conveniently marshalled for a specific political end. D for a specific political end [ Crowd Cheering ] [ Engine Revving ] [ Race Light Countdown ] when you save money with allstate you feel like youre winning. 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Know how to get in touch with your family. Write down Phone Numbers for your parents, siblings and neighbors. Pick a place to meet your family if you are not together and cant go home. Remind your parents to pack an emergency supply kit. Making a plan might feel like homework, but it will help you and your family stay safe during an emergency. It has been a long year. It has been a painful year. It has been very frustrating for me and my family. For your life to change within a blink of an eye. That officer didnt know what he took from us last year. Tomorrow marks the Oneyear Anniversary of murder of George Floyd at the hands of former Minneapolis Police officer derek chauvin. Amidst the pandemic and lockdowns that death triggered the literal largest civil Rights Protest in american history. A year later, though, there are pretty disquieting questions about what has changed, what has been gained and lost after the outpouring of people in the streets, young, old, white, black, latino, indigenous in towns small and cities large. Thought a good person to check in would be congressman jamaal bowman. He represents a fascinatingly diverse district of The Bronx and westchester. My brother works for him as an adviser, but i dont hold that against the congressman. Its good to see you. I was thinking about you because youre part of a new class of democrats. You ran a successful primary against a longterm incumbent, and your election happened right in the midst of this. You were campaigning as this was happening in the streets. And im curious where you are a year later, and the conversations you have with your constituents what has and hasnt happened. So, im pretty reflective, personally, because as you mentioned, a year ago, the murder of George Floyd happened. And there were just so many uprisings, not just across the country, but within the district. And you know the district pretty well, chris, so when you see young people in New York organizing black lives matters rallies or young people in scarsdale, thats what we saw a year ago after the murder. And right before our election. But a year later, you know, police have literally killed someone every single Day Minus six days over the last 365 days. We still havent passed the George Floyd justice in policing act in the senate, and theres still efforts to water that policy down, which is the floor, not the ceiling, by the way. And now the crime has grown in certain parts of the country, were Hearing Calls for more police, and here the nypd has unveiled a Robot Police Dog that it will use for surveillance. So while, you know, new conversations are happening, and the entire country got to see the horror of the murder of George Floyd, we still are not far enough along yet to really have the transformative Policy And Change both federally and locally that we need. Theres two things you mentioned there i want to follow up with. One, you talked about a rise in crime. I should say specifically violence. We have seen shootings, particularly shootings and homicides, Crime Statistics are broken up in all kinds of ways but those have gone up. They have gone up in New York city. And the ways in which that is interacting with this policy, the New York times running this headline that theres pressure to Add Police amid rising crime. It focuses on los angeles, but you have seen some of the same arguments made. Im curious what your discussion with your constituents are about precisely this question. So its this binary. Its either, you know, freedom or prison. And we never talk about the in between. You know, what is the in between . I think the american Rescue Plan is one example of the in between in terms of bringing the resources to bear to communities that have been historically red lined. So invest in our public infrastructure, invest in our schools, invest in the social infrastructure to provide the academic, mental health, and social supports that people need. Invest in jobs and Job Training programs. That is what were hearing from people on the ground. In addition to, you know, were still hearing about the Accountability Piece of it. If someone does harm against a community, they need to be held accountable. But accountability doesnt always look like Jail Or Prison or Solitary Confinement or torture. It looks very different if we reimagine public safety. Give people the help and the supports that they need, and they are less likely to commit crime or commit harm against a community. We have to understand, crime is more prevalent in historically underresourced, neglected, and redlined communities. So once we invest the resources in these spaces and begin new dialogue and conversations and implementation, i believe and what we have seen prior to this recent uptick is a consistent decrease in crime. Lets not forget covids impact on this in terms of trauma, and stress, and Job Loss people have been going through. Its a convergence of all of these factors that i believe and people in the district believe has led to the increase in crime. Thats an important one because people point to the Material Deprivation of the last year, but the sheer amount of trauma and dislocation, social rupture that happened in the past year, i mean, fabrics torn apart. That has an impact on places, im sure its had an impact in many of the places in your district as well. Congressman jamaal bowman, thanks so much for making time tonight. Thank you, chris. That is All In for this monday evening. The Rachel Maddow Show starts right now. Good evening, chris. Thank you my friend. Much appreciated. Good have to you back. Thank you at home for joining us. South of the equator, northeast of new zealand, sort of eastnortheast from australia, there is an American Territory, its the only inhabited American Territory that is in the southern hemisphere. Theres about 45,000, 50,000 people who live there. Its called American Samoa, but American Samoa, that u. S. Territory, is not to be confused with the nation of samoa. Which is an independent country in that same group of islands. Where the American Territory of American Samoa has 45,000 or 50,000 people, the nation of samoa is much larger, about 200,000 people live th