Performance for Phil Mickelson. Well talk about that in a little bit. Good Morning And Welcome to morning joe. Its monday, may 24th. With us to kick things off, we have white House Reporter for the associated press, Jonathan Lemire and u. S. National editor at the financial times, Ed Luce joins us early this morning. So guess what, everybody. The Pandemic Outlook is improving nationwide as new Coronavirus Cases drop to rates not seen in nearly a year. Death rates are also as low as theyve been since last summer, according to the cdc, 60 of people over 18 have received at least one shot and are almost half almost half are fully vaccinated, contributing to the sharp decline in covid19 cases. The vaccine makes a huge difference. Health experts do caution that the virus remains dangerous in communities with low Vaccination Rates. And thats that not enough americans have vaccinated to completely extinguish the virus, leaving the potential for new variants that could extend the outbreak. So there are warnings that come along with this good news, but the message is to get vaccinated. I mean, the communities where people are reticent to take the vaccine its great news. Its not helpful, though, if you dont get it. Its great news. Those numbers are falling, hospitalizations are falling, covid deaths are falling, the lowest in over a year. You saw yesterday, that mob of people in South Carolina, following Phil Mickelson up the 18th fairway. And i think a lot of people watching were excited to actually see that theres a Sporting Event, a huge Sporting Event where things were returning to normal. And im not so sure phil was excited about it. For a moment, the crowds kind of got out of control. But its South Carolina. South Carolina People are hearty people. They are they wear their emotions on their sleeves. In very, very good ways and a couple bad ways. But Jonathan Lemire, it was i mean, you were seeing a lot of these not only Sporting Events, but going out and seeing people getting back to living again a normal life. And it sure is joyous for an awful lot of people. And not us, of course, because we kind of stay in our cave. We dont get out much. But its joyful for most people. And also inside the White House, you know, i always look at my wwd, whats in, whats out app. And it appears inside the White House, hugs in, masks out. Hugs in, masks, mostly, out, joe. And i would say, there at the pga, it seems like they lost contain of that crowd a little bit. They were right on top of phil. Whoo yeah, glad everybodys okay. But that was spectacular sight, which i know well get back to in a moment. But in terms of the White House, theyve been so mindful of trying to broadcast to the nation how they should be, the people of america should be responding to this pandemic. We know, of course, that President Trump, when he was in office, he and his staff were cavalier about the virus. They didnt wear masks or practice social distancing and we saw several covid outbreaks right there in the White House, the symbol of the government. The most powerful and fortified place in the nation, Hot Spot, Time After time. Super spreader events linked to events at the White House. When biden and his team came in, the first Image Americans saw of Joe Biden as president in the White House, he was sitting in the Oval Office behind the resolute desk wearing a mask. And they have kept that sort of cautious Tone And Plan up until the cdc guidelines came down last week, and we have seen now, last week, we had the leader of South Korea was at the White House, full pomp and circumstance. Hugs, kisses, Vice President harris hugged a 95yearold Medal of honor winner. They are now trying to send the signal to the nation, look, if youve been vaccinated, you can go back to your normal lives. You dont need the masks anymore. You can do the things weve all missed, including charging Phil Mickelson at a major golf tournament. To the point where security had to go around him. Looked like Bear Bryant after the Iron Bowl with all of those State Troopers around him. Things were getting a little harry for a second. Lets talk about brenton and the rest of The World. India still a tragedy. Other countries still having some problems. But Great Britain and the eu, is that still a tale of two stories. Great britain still doing better than the eu . Less and less. The eu has been catching up quite rapidly in the last few weeks. And youve seen some of the scenes we have in New York and here in d. C. Of normalization, youre seeing in paris and berlin. So the europeans are catching up. Theres been some good news from britain, which has had the double Mutant Indian variant, alarmingly. Theyve done test on whether the Pfizer Vaccine is effective against the double mutant, and it turns out that it is effective against it. There is some concern that it wouldnt be, which would force us all back to the drawing board. Thats good news. I think the big issue remains, the west is the rest of The World. Only 2 of the shots that have been administered have gone to the 50 of the poorest in The World. And thats got to change. And thats a Conversation Bidens going to be having. Hes going to make his first foreign trip in a couple of weeks. It will be to britain, to the g7 summit. And thats a conversation hes going to be having with his european counterparts. Well be following this with further conversations throughout the show. But we want to turn to politics now, Fulton County, georgia, which will undergo another audit of 2020 Absentee Ballots following claims of fraud. The Friday Ruling by a judge allows the ballots to be unsealed claiming that Fulton County Election Workers counted fraudulent ballots. It will be done under a the supervision of a special master appointed by the court. The state of georgia conducted three audits soon after the election, all of which reaffirmed the original outcome of the race. Meanwhile, republican congressman Liz Cheney continues to speak out, sitting down with Jonathan Swann for axios on hbo. Youre trying to chart a new course for the party, away from Donald Trump, away from the lie, and it just seems like there arent people willing to buy what youre selling. Where do you get the hope for this, that this is going to work . Because i love this country. Right. Because i believe in our democracy and i believe in our constitutional process and system. And because i look at it from the perspective of whats right. I think the future of our party has to be built around ideas and substance. I think we have to be able to make a Substantiative Case for limited government, for low taxes, for a strong national defense, for securing our borders. The ideas and the substance and the policy are on our side. But we have to get back to a place where were making those arguments. How much culpability do republican elites have for fertilizing the soil for the Big Lie . Thats not at all how i think about it, you wont be surprised to hear. Why . I think when you look at things like voter fraud, it certainly exists. I will never understand the resistance, for example, to voter i. D. I think you ought to have to show i. D. To go vote. Theres a big difference between that and a President Of The United States who loses an election, after he tried to steal the election, and refuses to concede, and continues to say the election was stolen, suggesting that our democratic process is insufficient of conveying the will of the people. You dont see any linkage between Donald Trump saying the election is stolen and then republicans in all of these State Legislatures rushing to put in place these restrictive Voter Laws . I think you have to look at the specific was of each one of those efforts. I think if you look at the georgia laws, for example, theres been a lot thats been said nationally about the Georgia Voter laws that turns out not to be true. But even though the republican Lieutenant Governor of georgia, Geoff Duncan said that when this bill started to pick up momentum was when Rudy Giuliani was testifying that the Georgia Election was a sham. I dont think anyone doubts that the Reason 400some Voting bills have been introduced, 90 by republicans, supported by the republican national committee, i dont think its a coincidence after the election that this has happened. Look, i think everybody should want a situation and a system where people who ought to be able to vote and have the right to vote can vote. And people who, you know, dont, shouldnt. And again, i come back to things like voter i. D. But what are they involving for . Its like, what are all of these states doing . Well, each state is different. What was the big problem in georgia that needed to be solved by a new law . What was the big problem in texas . What was the big problem in florida . These laws are coming all around the states, and like, what are they solving for . I think youve got to look at each individual state law, but i think what we can all agree on but you Cant Divorce them from the context . Yeah, but what we can agree on is what is happening right now is very dangerous. When i think about the inauguration, sitting on the inaugural platform in January Of 2001, watching al gore. Of course, we had won. Im sure he didnt think that he had lost. We had fought this politically very, very intense battle and he conceded. He did the right thing for this nation. And that is one of the big differences between that and what were dealing with now. And the danger of Donald Trump today. And jonathan joins us now. And joe, i want to go back to jonathans first question for Liz Cheney, which is, you know, where are you going to get the support . I found one person in Florida Yesterday at a Birthday Party, diehard republican, worked in the financial industry his whole life, turned independent, only because of trump. But if someone like Liz Cheney were to come along, he would become a real, true republican. Again, the conversation was much like The Ones we have, where the republicans are turning the party into something its not. It is the Insurrectionist Party. Then there are real republicans and the question is, how many will coalesce in that group . And the democrats. And we need a real republican party. What we dont need in this country is an Insurrectionist Party. And there is no conversation to be had with an insurrectionist with a party that doesnt even want to believe in basic truths. Well, a party that believes that democracy, American Democracy is okay only when their side wins. You bring up a great point. We have three parties in america now. We have the republican party. We have the democratic party, and we have the Insurrectionist Party. And i think its really important for people in the media to recognize that. And to listen to what Liz Cheney is saying. And when she says something like, she still Supporters Voter i. D. Laws, instead of saying, oh, shes just as bad as no, shes not. And you might want to look into the fact that 80 of americans according to a Gallup Poll Support voter i. D. For people to vote. And thats a debate. You want to have that debate . Thats a debate that we can have between the guardrails of American Democracy. For people to say, if you support that, you might as wellbeing supporting storming the Capitol On 1 6, its overly simplistic and confuses the issues. Theres three party in america we have to recognize. A republican party with people like Liz Cheney in there, Ben Sasse, mitt romney, others. Theres a democratic party. And theres an Insurrectionist Party for people who didnt recognize the 1 6 election, when are trying everything they can do the change the subject from 1 6 and dont want face those facts. Jonathan, thanks so much for being there. A great interview with Liz Cheney, as always. Congratulations on that. I always its very funny. I remember, about a year ago, six months ago on twitter, someone said, write the thing that will most surprise people about you. And gary casper, off the great the russian chess master, who was harshly critical of Donald Trump and became something of a hero to many on the left said, you all will be so surprised and so disappointed after trump is gone by how conservative i actually am, to which i retweeted and said, amen. And Liz Cheney is there. Shes being heralded by people who have attacked her her entire life, and when we get beyond this, Theyll Start attacking her again. But you hear that interview, listen, news flash, Liz Cheney is a conservative. Shes not only a conservative, shes probably on the right of the party. A very staunch conservative. And she was a partisan warrior during the obama years. Shes now this anathema to the republican base. But thats where her heart is, shes just decided to take a stand on January 6th and the Big Lie and Donald Trump. But the problem with all of this conversation is you talk about there being three parties, she really is a Fringe Figure in the republican party. Its not that theres this huge group of people who support her and Ben Sasse and mitt romney. Empirically, there arent, in terms of republican voters. 70 of republican voters consider Joe Biden illegitimate. Theres polling to show that. 70 . Thats extraordinary. Thats where the party has gone. And the party actually has left Liz Cheney. And the real challenge she has, if shes going to chart this new course for the party, she has to bring these voters back to the party. Many of them have left the party. And its not clear that the people who consider themselves republican voters are going to be amenable to what Liz Cheney is selling. So whats her next move . Well, its unclear to me, actually. Her Primary Election in 2022 is going to become a Proxy Battle For The Future and in her view, the sole of the republican party. Donald trump and his political operation are desperately trying to find one person to run against her. They havent figured out who yet. And the problem for them right now is theres a number of people who have declared themselves. One of them had impregnated a 14yearold and described it as a Romeo And Juliette situation. He seems to be out of the picture or at least receding from view. But the problem for them is if the field remains divided, they have a decent chance. If they settle on one, shes in real trouble. You have to remember with Liz Cheney, this is the other point thats hard to understand. You look at empirical. She is three times more popular among democratic vorts than republican voters. When you talk about the parties, you need to remember where the republican electorate is at. Theyre not at where Liz Cheney is at right now. And obviously, she would like those ratios reversed. And so much of this may depend on the passage of time, the understanding that Donald Trump is not going to run for reelection. If he doesnt. Sure. I heard somebody shout my name . He said sure. Passage of time. Also, the possibility that Donald Trump doesnt run again, and republicans start doing what they havent done in some time and start focusing on who can get elected President Of The United States in 2024. And where theyre at at the moment, its a very fragmented party, because you have the House Republican Conference who their theory of the case is basically, double down on trump. And you know, we need to evaluate trump and run into the midterms on trump. Mitch mcconnell, his view is, ignore trump, hope that he recedes into the background. Its a strategy based on hope. Liz cheney is in a third camp. She believes that the Mitch Mcconnell approach is dangerous and you actually need to confront Donald Trump and talk about it right now and excise him from the party. Its a real muddled mess, and i dont know how they resolve it, frankly. You never know in politics. The saying in politics, a week is a lifetime. Liz cheney has a year or so to sort this out before reelection, and even more time between 2024, when you talk about her sitting at 15 , maybe 20 . Yeah, thats not enough to win a congressional primary. But maybe a president ial race in 2024, where 16 people jump in and theyre all hugging Donald Trump. Maybe that 15 or 20 gets you through a few early states and she gains momentum. Jonathan swann, as always, great job. We love having you on the show. Ed luce, i wanted to ask you, youb see whats happening in the united states. People like Anne Applebaum have come on for some time talking about whats happening in the Center Right in britain, in poland, in spain, in france, in hungary, all across the western world with western democracies. Do you see any parallels with britain right now . Not as close a parallel as i would have seen in 2016. The brexit happened. Trump became the nominee. Won the election. All since. I think britains Got A populist leader, but hes The One thats benefited from the vaccine. And of course, the Vaccine Rollout in america occurred after trump was defeated. The left in britain is destroyed, really. Largely, its selfdestruction, whereas the democrats have regrouped under biden. They got out probably The One guy who could have easily defeated trump and they did defeat trump. And they therefore have a second chance at reestablishing themselves as competent in government in american eyes. Thats an opportunity the left isnt getting in too many other parts of the democratic world. So, i think the parallels with britain are less salient than they normally would be and theres really nothing in the western world to compare with one of two major parties rejecting the rules of the game, embracing, essentially, an authoritarian cult like the republicans are doing, and getting more into it as the defeat of their Cult Leader gets goes into the rearview mirror. So its becoming more cultish, more jonestownesque, as time goes on. Its hard to find a parallel really anywhere in the democratic world with the republican party right now. Yeah, it really is strange, mika. The more republicans lose, the more of a Personality Cult Donald Trump seems to develop. You can look at his losses in 17 and 18. Historic losses. I mean, republicans losing like theyve never lost before in the House Of Representatives, just as far as a pure, pure vote totals. 19, they started losing governorships in the south and then in 20, they lost the big race, lost the race for their presidency. Lost georgia, lost the senate, lost the house. Its and so, rational parties, parties that actually want to rule. Parties that want their policies to change, instead of just these putting forth these hypergestures, they selfadjust and start electing candidates that can get elected. Donald trump is not that guy. Hes just not that guy. And weve seen time and again that he puts, in many cases, people in a difficult position to win general elections. So, well see what happens. It has all the evidence of a serious cult. Im not saying that as a joke. Im not saying that as a not even an exaggeration at this point. No. And Jonathan Lemire, i just want to clear one thing up. Because ive had some Family Members and friends ask me, well, if Donald Trump was so bad and this wasnt rigged, why did the republicans win and do so well In The House . Republicans overperformed expectations, based on the terrible polling that was out there. But it is important to remember that the house still remained democratic. And remained democratic by, you know, i think theyre plus 9, plus 10. Thats about the same. Biden did about the same that Bill Clinton did in 92. Did about the same, Bill Clinton did in 96. Did much better than jfk, if you just look at the house side. Biden did much better than either party when you came to the senate. He was a net plus five in picking up senate seats. He picked up five senate seats in 2020. Donald trump lost two in 2016. And you can go all the way back 40, 50 years, and biden did much better than most. So this idea and its become Urban Legend that democrats just got completely romped, because the polling was so bad. And the expectations were so high. But this was not an historic anomaly. If republicans were going, hey, we did a great job we only lost by ten seats, its kind of the way losers think. You either win or you lose. And they lost. Right. Joe, this is a moment where two things could be true at once. The republicans did outperform expectations in terms of the house. They had a relatively strong cycle, but not nearly as strong as the democrats did. It didnt change the fact that under Donald Trumps leadership in the party, as he was in office, republicans Lost Control of the house. Lost control of the senate and eventually, of course, Lost Control of the White House. Now, the margins are small. Were at 50 50 in the senate. The democrats margin In The House is certainly not large. And as 22 approaches, there are reasons for republicans to feel somewhat confident. The historical trend are that the party in power, the party who has the White House, tends to lose seats in the midterms. And it wouldnt take much of a swing to put that back in the republican column. And thats why theyre doubling down on trying to put January 6th behind them. Thats why theyre trying to. They have made the calculation that at least in the certainly, embracing trumpism, even if mcconnell doesnt like trump personally, they still believe, though, this is largely the way to go. Its a way to energize their voters to get them to turn out in 22. Well see in 2018, that off year election, that didnt go so well for republicans, when trumps name himself was not on the ballot. We also, the White House and democrats believe that theyll have a shot to rebuke the historical trend. That if the nation has put the pandemic behind it. If the economy has roared back to life. And there are certainly concerns about inflation and so on, but that could be a moment that they point to and be able to hold on to some seats. The house will be tougher than the senate, but they feel like they have a shot to maintain power in 2022. And that would further Damage Republicans who are trying to stay cozied up to the former president. All right. We want to turn now to a story about the front page of the New York times yesterday, that has important implications. Its fascinating, about research showing the global Population Rate is slowing down at a concerning rate. Reading from The Times report, quote, like an avalanche, the demographic forces pushing toward more deaths than births seems to be expanding and accelerating. Though some countries continue to see their populations grow, especially in africa, Fertility Rates are falling nearly everywhere else. Demographers now predict that by the latter half of the century or possibly earlier, the global population will enter a sustained decline for the first time. Lets bring in the Lead Author on this story, New York times australian Bureau Chief, damian cave. Good to have you with us this morning. Damian, thank you so much. There were two articles that jumped out at me this past weekend in the New York times. One was The One that talked about how remarkable it is that Life Expectancy in The World has doubled in over a century. The first time that, obviously, has ever happened in the history of mankind. But yours was the second. A troubling one, talking about this population bust. What are the implications of that for The World as we move forward . Well, the combination of these two factors, the implications are huge. On the economic side, it means that youre going to have countries that have as many 85yearolds as 18yearolds. So the system that weve developed in a lot of countries where theres enough young people to support help for the hold and just support the economy is suddenly being tipped on its head. So there are enormous economic implications, but there are a whole bunch of just cultural implications, too. The more i talked to demographers, the more i heard imagining situations where instead of having a Birthday Party with a bunch of 8yearolds and, you know, one grandparent, youre going to have a Birthday Party for an 85yearold or a lot of 85yearolds and just one or two kids at the party. So its trying to get our heads around something thats just so dramatically different from the Way Population demographics have worked in the 20th century. So in the united states, the birthrate is dropping for the sixth straight year. Whats behind these numbers, in the u. S. . You know, its really a mix of good news and bad news. In the united states and all over The World. One of the things thats happened is that education has spread more widely, women are in the workforce, theres more access to contraception all over The World. Thats on the positive side. People are making choices that maybe in the past they didnt have freedom to make. On the downside, you have how hard it is to have a family. Where theres not that much support for family leave, not that much support for women who want to work and have children. And The Cost Of Living have been driven up in a lot of cities. What you have in the united states is this kind of bifurcated existence, where regional areas are shrinking, because young people are moving out of them into cities, which makes it harder for people to justify having children. So theres a cycle of kind of reinforcing dynamics that make it really hard. And Ed Luce, with an aging population, also, there are political changes. People somebody took numbers from the 2020 election, looked at the demographic breakdown by Age Group and applied it to earlier elections and the result was, i think somebody said, reagan would have lost in 1980 because of the demographics. Certainly, there would have been a lot of changes. Whats happening now is americans are getting older, living longer. Were more conservative, more protrump. And it does it really does change politics in that way. Might make the Voting Population more conservative. But Something Else that ive talked about for 30, 40 years, instead of having 15 people working for every one person on Social Security or medicare, pretty soon it will be an even split. Youll have one person working for every person on Social Security and medicare. And those numbers in the long run do not add up. No, they dont. You know, there is an overall pattern here with those global numbers where if we are going to get into flattening and declining global population in the second half of this century, we should see the good side of that. You know, the era of everrising Human Numbers is over. And theres a good reason. Theres a positive reason for that, which damien was setting out very well. That Life Expectancy has increased, Child Mortality has pretty much vanished. You dont need to have so many children. And the strain on global resources is going to ease off. So we should see the positive side of this. But if youre looking at Americas Decline in Population Growth, the last decade was the second slowest in american history. Since 1790. The only slower decade for Population Growth was the 1930s. So you can see that if youre a young american, if youre a millennial or older generation z, youre not starting a family right now, or its rare youre doing so at a much less, and slower rate than previous generations. Because youre afraid about your own economic security, youre aware that the cost of having a child, the cost of education, you know, is massive and rising and that that is thing thats got to be postponed until youre more economically secure. America is a nation of immigrants. And often, Population Growth comes from immigration. But right now, politically, theres no real consensus to open the Immigration Floodgates again. Theres no new Ellis Island for the 21st century. So its hard to see in the nearterm how america is going to address its Population Growth issue. Damien, a final thought to you . Yeah, one of the things i think thats important to recognize is that these projections and numbers are all dependent on peoples actions. There was a period of time where no one ever imagined that Population Growth would come to an end. So what were seeing now is the result of different policies and different reactions. So a lot of demographers i talked to said, listen, the destiny, its not a given. How this plays out is up to us. The countries that are likely to succeed are The Ones that are frankly friendlier to immigrants, because at some appoint, there will be competition to immigrants. And friendlier to young families. To some degree, the 21st century will probably be defined by the countries that do best with those two issues. The New York times damien cave. Thank you very much for being on this morning. And still ahead on morning joe, after weeks of back and forth about infrastructure, the White House drops the Price Tag for president Bidens Plan, but republicans still not budging. Plus, World Leaders are reacting after a European Airliner was forced to land in belarus this is just shocking. And an Opposition Journalist onboard was arrested. Also this morning, Donald Trumps new website is up, but online chatter about the former president is down. In fact, its at a fiveyear low. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. Re watching well be right back. Br 25 of your mouth. Listerine® cleans virtually 100 . Helping to prevent Gum Disease and bad breath. Never settle for 25 . Always go for 100. Bring out the bold™ as your business changes, the United States Postal Service is changing with it. With ecommerce that runs at the speed of now. Next Day And Twoday shipping nationwide, and returns right from the doorstep. Its a whole New World out there. Lets not keep it waiting. I order my groceries online now. Shingles doesnt care. I keep my social distance. Shingles doesnt care. I stay within my family bubble. Shingles doesnt care. Because if youve had chicken pox, youre already carrying the virus that causes shingles. 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This proposal exhibits a willingness to come down if size, giving on some areas that are important to the president , otherwise they wouldnt have been in the proposal, while also staying firm in most areas that are vital to rebuilding our infrastructure. The biden administration has proposed a somewhat slimmed down version of its massive infrastructure package, but republicans still dont appear to be getting onboard at all. Joining us now, white House Correspondent for Politico And Coauthor of the playbook, eugene daniels, hes also an msnbc contributor. So what areas did the White House give on and why didnt the republicans take . Well, on the White Houses part, there was this focus and continues to be this focus on making sure that they get a bipartisan deal on the hard infrastructure aspects of things. So theres about 500 billion, i think, missing the from missing from the original offer that they had, given senate republicans. So that includes roads and bridges. And they want to make sure theres some broadband in there. That money is still in there. Still a lot more money than republicans wanted to spend. Republicans say, they won, they are very uninterested in the payfor, which Joe Biden does not want to raise taxes on people making less than 400,000, and republicans dont want them to touch the Tax Cuts that were ready for businesses in 2017. Theres some friction. And Theres Friction on them having this fight about Whats Infrastructure and theres the Price Tag. Republicans have found their religion again. Memorial day was the deadline they gave themselves to have a deal and its starting to look a little bleak. And people are starting to feel a little bit more pessimistic. So has this been enough for the Joe Manchins of The World, when they said they wanted these negotiations to be bipartisan . Did they is it time to move on and go ahead and just go with democrats on this one . And i think thats what were going to be watching this week. And hey, Jonathan Lemire, lets look at the numbers. The White Houses original Infrastructure Plan was about 2. 25 trillion. Theyve cut it down to about 1. 7. Theyre down about 500 billion. Republicans are sitting tight. Theyre sitting at well, 568 and theyre Count Welcome and i think Joe Manchin is counting the 320 Billion theyre already set to spend this year. Theyre up closer to 800 billion, 900 billion. Lets take it from here. You have a difference of 1. 7 trillion with the biden White House after they came down 5 500 billion. Can they end up around 1. 2, 1. 3 and have a deal . Its a pretty significant gap, joe. Theyre not ruling it out. And we should certainly not say that talks are done, but they certainly are stalled. Theres a sense of pessimism on both sides about whether or not this can get done. That Memorial Day soft deadline looms now. Its one week away. That can push a little bit. But whats happening right now, both parties are disappointed in the other. Republicans feel like they didnt up their offer at all. Republicans say, hey, look, 500 billion, you cut out of your package, well move most of that into other legislation. Theres another piece that the senate is taking up later this week, where a lot of that money just got reallocated. So therefore, thats not really a drop in the overall Price Tag. Thats their argument. And its also intersection that the statement the republican senators put out on friday made a point of saying, we made progress with the president. And now in this meeting with the White House staff, we feel less optimistic, trying to drive a subtle wedge between biden and some of the others who work for him who are less inclined but that pressure is now mounting on the White House from fellow democrats who say, the clock is ticking. We know the window to actually come up with a bipartisan deal is shrinking. How much more time can we give this . You know, at what point do we just throw in the towel in these talks and try to go in, democrats alone . But the question is this. Have they done enough to satisfy the Joe Manchins of The World, those moderate democrats who dont really want to do this by reconciliation. Have they been satisfied that a good Faith Effort at bipartisan was made. You know, Ed Luce, you look at the bills that are laid before us right now. And you look at the 1 6 commission. Obviously, we need a 1 6 commission. Republicans have made a good point. I dont remember a whole lot of commissions that had all republican staffs or all democratic staffs. If youre trying to have a bipartisan look. Theres something that can be negotiated on. And i understand those negotiations moving forward. There are other bills, the nontraditional Infrastructure Part of this, also, i mean, within the guardrails, that seems to be something where i would expect republicans and democrats to have the debate on this infrastructure bill, though, you look and see how of dilapidated Americas Infrastructure is, roads, bridges, airports, railroads, broadband. Its a joke. Its a joke. I remember even five years ago, flying around and flying from New York to l. A. And going on trains trains, planes, automobiles. And i just turned to mika and i said, you know well, i wont say what i actually said. I get out of l. A. X. And i say, you know, stuff dont work. Things just dont work. We have gone from a first Rate World Power to a third Rate World Power when it comes to infrastructure. I mean, you compare you compare a lot of broadband especially. Its just a joke. So it seems to me, this is The One bill republicans should be a little more aggressive on, meeting in the middle. If thats at 1. 2 or 8 or 8. 5, where they are now. This is one bill where its not exorbitant when you look at how long weve ignored Americas Infrastructure needs. Yeah, i think that this is an area, of course, that trump had Infrastructure Week as the great joke, wherever he tried that Infrastructure Week, he would employee it up himself by changing the subject. Its a bipartisan issue, that was popular when trump ran. It was popular with republican voters. Its popular with democratic voters. Everybody can see the desperate need for modernizing americas roads and infrastructure and getting a 5g System in. The bill that biden proposed, this 2. 25 trillion is an eightyear bill. So thats about 1 of gdp. Its not radical. Its not even enough if you ask the u. S. Society for civil engineers to maintain existing infrastructure. Theyre saying you need 5. 6 trillion over the next decade to maintain existing infrastructure. So i get a little bit puzzled when i hear people describing Bidens Plan here as radical and gigantic and sweeping. Its not. Its a pretty modest plan. And im concerned that hes getting into an Obama Situation here, where hes trying to find a middle ground, led by Joe Manchin, who believes, i think, without any evidence that there are ten good republicans and true who are there to be negotiated. That obama is being led like obama was on many bills, into negotiating with himself, in the elusive hope of getting a bipartisan compromise, with a republican party that has made it absolutely clear that theyre not going to support Anything Biden proposes. So i think that these are fruitless negotiations, to be honest. Yeah. And eugene, you look at following up on what ed has said, when you just look at the numbers per year, 300 Billion per year in additional infrastructure is not radical. Especially when you consider and my gosh, this was one of the Pet Peeves during the height of the iraq war, 2 Trillion a year not on iraq, on afghanistan. Year after year after year. On afghanistan and here were trying to spend 1. 7, 300 Billion less on americas own infrastructure over several years and thats being called radical . Theres a lot of spending thats radical in washington, d. C. This infrastructure, rebuilding, reinvesting in america, thats not radical. I think youre right. And i think the thing in the democratic party, if you want when youre talking radical, right . There are members of the left who want to spend a lot more money. Theyre saying, even the original plan that President Biden put forth was nowhere near the amount of money. Youre exactly right. This isnt as much that people who really concentrate on infrastructure, how much they say is needed. And something interesting that the democrats have done and the who is have done in trying to get republicans come to see how important the infrastructure and this deal is, theyve been talking to local and state and republican officials, talking to them and say, look outside. Look at the potholes that your neighbor called about. And talk to your republicans on Capitol Hill about how important this is. Thats one of the creative ways this White House is trying to do that. Because every local official, every state official, and really, anyone who lives in washington, d. C. Can look outside and see that the infrastructure around us is, i guess, as as then President Trump would say, is crumbling around us. That is happening. And the fact that republicans arent getting onboard with this at some point, theyre going to have to talk to their voters about why the potholes arent filled and all of those things. And thats what the White House has been trying to push as theyve been talking to these local officials and getting them onboard with them. Politicos eugene daniels, thank you very much. We turn now to a brazen act of authoritarianism in the skies. A civilian flight forced midair to turn around so a journalist can be arrested. European leaders as well as some u. S. Lawmakers are calling what happened in belarus, quote, statesponsored hijacking. The flight left athens, greece, sunday, traveling to lithuania. Its just about a threehour flight. But just as the airliner was about to exit belarus air space, it was diverted to minsk, the capital. Air Traffic Control in belarus essentially called in a Bomb Threat to the flight crew, then they had a Fighter Jet Escort the Plane Carrying 123 people to minsk, despite it being closer to its destination. The target of all of this was row manhattan protosevic, a Journalist And Activist opposed the belarus president. He runs a social Media Channel that reported repeated Police Brutality during antigovernment protests last year, following the reelection of lukashenko, after Which Protosvic was charged with terrorism. Immediately after the flight, he was detained and immediately told reporters he was, quote, facing the death penalty. As for ryanair, the company put out a statement that there was a potential security threat. The plane was searched and nothing untoward was found. The company apologized to passengers, saying the delay was outside its control. And Ed Luce, lukashenko just becomes more authoritarian by the day, if possible. This is just brazen. What can europe do . What can the united states do in response . Clearly, an incidence like this, a hijacking, clearly an Act Of Piracy by belarusa would not have happened without the okay by putin. You saw the applause happening after lukashenko pulled off this breathtaking defiance of international law, for a 26yearold blogger. Lets remember, thats how scared they are of dissent. This was a guy who was, you know, exiled, i guess, left the country after the rigged election last year, when the protests against Lukashenkos Rigging of the Election Led to a great outpouring. He brazened it out, partly with putins support. And hays now using more and more putinesque methods. Hes really defying the European Union and international law and the united states by saying, you can just pluck somebody from the air. They sent out a mink to accompany this Ryanair Flight down. And had some fake story about there being a bomb onboard. If you can get away with this, you are basically not afraid of the consequences. Though more sanctions, a demand for constant access to this 26yearold journalist. I dont know what is really going to make much of a difference if they feel that emboldened to behave like pirate s internationally. Well, well certainly be following this. Ed luce, thank you very much. Coming up on morning joe, from The American Revolution to World War ii, huge fails from the far right, trying to make historical parallels to the pandemic. Well explain, next on morning joe. Rning joe. When i was young nonononono please please no. I never needed anyone. Front desk. Yes, hello. Im so. Please hold. Those days are done. I got you. All by yourself. Go with us and find millions of flexible options. All in our app. Expedia. It matters who you travel with. Expedia. Theres interest you accrue, and interests you pursue. Plans for the long term, and plans for a long weekend. Assets you allocate, and ones you hold tight. At thrivent, we believe money is a tool, not a goal. And with the right guidance, you can get the financial clarity you need, and live a life rich in meaning, and gratitude. To learn more, text thrive to 444555, or visit thrivent. Com. Limu emu. And doug. So then i said to him, you oughta customize your Car Insurance with liberty mutual, so you only pay for what you need. Oh um, doug can we talk about something other than work, its the weekend. Yeah, yeah. [ squawk ] hot dog or. Chicken . [ squawk ] only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. It is our last weekend update, and i have to say, i think that the country is in a better place than when we started this season. I think. In september, there were headlines like, will the president destroy democracy . And now im seeing headlines like, will this be the most turntass summer ever . I hosted the first episode this season and that feels like six years ago. Heres how messed up The World was when i hosted, okay . I wanted Kanye West to be the musical guest. And he couldnt do it because he was running for president. Remember that . Also, the week i was here, the sitting president who said covid would disappear got covid. That was this season, okay . Thank you for staying with us through an election, an insurrection, and an objection that there was an insurrection. And as someone who played Rudy Giuliani and experienced the year through his eyes, i can tell you, it was one wild ride, baby. And live from New York, its Saturday Night part of Saturday Night lives season 46 finale. You really enjoyed that. I thought it was nice. Not a lot of people in Times Square. Speaking of being live from New York, the Citys Mayor Bill De Blasio is standing by. He joins us straight ahead with an announcement that millions of parents will need to hear. That is coming up in just a few minutes. First, the news. The Pandemic Outlook is improving nationwide as new Coronavirus Cases dropped to rates not seen in nearly a year. Remember a year ago we were looking at those numbers just exploding up. And i dont think we had any idea how bad it would get. We couldnt comprehend it. It got terrible. You look at our leaders and leaders across the country, they were all guessing, maybe it would be 100,000. At one point, President Trump was excited it was going to be 70,000, thought it was slowing down, 100,000. But it ended up getting up well over 500,000, which actually those that the study out of england that a lot of people were mocking when they said 1 to 2 Million wasnt so out of range. But take a look at these numbers. What a what great, great news. Leadership matters. Well, the i mean, the vaccines matter. Yeah. So much. And its remarkable what we as a country have been able to do. Republicans, democrats, independents, scientists, doctors, Research Labs have been able to do over the past year. Its been extraordinary. Also, as the ceasefire between Israel And Hamas enters its fourth day, the focus shifts to rebuilding gaza. Over a dozen homes and five Apartment Buildings were brought down during the 11 days of israeli air strikes. More than a dozen hospitals and schools were also damaged. A top u. N. Official toured the destruction yesterday. He said, this months attacks only worsened a quote already dire humanitarian situation. Gaza had already been dealing with a Covid19 Outbreak before its only Coronavirus Testing Lab was destroyed in the air strikes. In the u. S. , secretary of State Anthony blinken says the White House is focused on delivering aid to gaza and a shift toward, quote, longterm peace. There has to be a shift towards longterm peace, which is going to require the united states to have an intermediary, a good Faith Intermediary in the palestinian territories. Obviously, when hamas is firing 3,000, 4,000 rockets into israel, israel is going to respond. Whether you like it or not, and at that point, we have to be able to talk to israel, and our good Faith Intermediary, maybe its the egyptians, have to be able to provide security inside of gaza. Stop the rockets. We can stop the bombing on the israeli side if they know that were working with a good Faith Partner on the other side. And stop this cycle of violence that continues. And as Donald Trump fights to keep his grip on the republican party, the Washington Post has found that online talk about the former president alltime high . Its plunged to a fiveyear low. Theyre not talking about him. Trumps aides have said his new website, which includes a blog, fundraising page, and online storefront would redefine the game. But in reality, the site is seeing few visitors. A Washington Post review of data from four online analytics found that social engagement around trump, a measure of likes, reactions, comments, or shares of content about him across facebook, twitter, reddit and pinterest, have nosedived 95 since january well, i mean lowest level since if he gets banned from every site, its going to nosedive. Then theres this. Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor greene is comparing the House Mask rules to the holocaust. The Georgia Congresswoman said, quote, we can look back at a time in history with people were wear a Gold Star and they were definitely treated like second klass citizen, so much so they were taken to trains and taken to Gas Chambers in Nazi Germany and this is exactly the type of abuse that Nancy Pelosi is talking about. A day later, republican congressman, Madison Cawthorn had a comparison of his own, implying the british would not have surrendered at yorktown if George Washington had been wearing a mask. And said americans are, quote, descended from people of valor. Yes, we are. Who stood up for their own personal liberties. The only difference is some of us still believe we are a people of valor. We descended from people of valor, we are still a people of valor. We have had greatness in the past, we have been an exceptional country in the past. We are still an exceptional country. American exceptionalism, my god, look at happened over the past year. And i will say it again. With republican administrations developing the vaccine, democratic administrations distributing the vaccines. Doctors and scientists who really didnt care about politics. They cared about doing something that had never been done before in the history of mankind. Move as quickly towards a vaccine as they were able to do in nine, ten, eleven months. My god, you look at our numbers collapsing. Yeah, im sorry. I know there are a lot of people in the Insurrectionist Party who dont believe this, but america is still great. There still is exceptionalism. We still have a great nation. And you can try to make us weak, you can try to claim our army is weaker than russias, you can do whatever you want to do. Youre wrong. Ill say what ive said to liberals my whole life and im saying now to you and the Insurrectionist Party. Bet against the united states of america and you lose every time. And there are republicans and there are insurrectionists. There are three parties. I think thats so important for people in the media to understand. Dont lump all republicans in with the insurrectionists. Theyre not republicans. You have a republican party, you have a democratic party and an Insurrectionist Party. Lets start identifying these three different parties as such. Its in the best interest of the country to have a strong republican party. Its in the best interest of the party to actually have a party that once again becomes conservative. They havent become conservative in a very long time. They have spent for 20 years like drunken socialists. Its time for them to find their bearings. Its good for us to have a republican and a democratic party. This Insurrectionist Party has got to work itself out. But we dont help that process along if we blur the line between republicans and insurrectionists. Joining us now, senior columnist for the daily beast, matt lewis. Plus, contributing writer at the atlantic,blainer joins us. You write, at what point is the approach of danger to be expected, the 28yearold Lincoln asked. I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time or die by suicide. For those of us who have spent much of our political life in the republican party, who knew it was hardly flawless, but did believe in its Promise And Core principles, its painful to acknowledge that the party of lincoln helped that the Party Lincoln helped build now embodies the very dangers that lincoln warned about. But how did that happen, pete . I guess the first question is. Well, its a long and complicated story, mika. But i think what happened is the republican party became grifted by grievances, victimization mentality, and then conspiracy theories. It moved away from a philosophy, as joe, was alluding to, where any interest in ideas became performtive. These trends started before trump. Trump became president and he accelerated all the worst tendencies. And i agree with joe. I think its important to disaggregate the republican party, the same party from the Insurrectionist Party. My concern is that the base of the party identifies with the base party. Marjorie Taylor Greene is flatout insane. But joe is quite right. This is a struggle that is essential, because even if youre a liberal, and right now we dont have that in the republican party, i really do think as a lifelong republican, that it is the main political menace to the republican. And republicans have to recognize it and do something about it. And matt, in your new piece entitled trumps gop, a party of snowflakes and beta males, you write in part, quote, Todays Gop is full of Patient Careerists who amazingly are too tolerant. They believe that swallowing their pride and sublimating their anger, opinions, and even familial loyalties is the way to inthe long game. The big question is, why do they tolerate trump . Why doesnt their primal desire for Pride And Honor and dignity ever kick in . The only John Wayne they have left is Donald Trump. Hes the Alpha Male and the betas all cower before him. What were left with is a gop full of neutered opportunists snowflakes paying their dues, biting their tongues, and hoping to retire with a gold watch. Matt, i dont understand it. Ouch ive never understood it. Ive looked over the past five years. Weve had conversations ive had conversations with leaders, people ive known, Paul Ryan im not saying that Paul Ryan is the all the things you said, but i remember sitting down with paul and saying, heres the thing you have to understand about donald, he never respects anybody that doesnt push back. You cant just sit there and take it constantly from him. You cant take the insults, you have to push back hard. None of them ever got it. They let him run over him. And i called these group of people back when i was in Congress Fat white pink boys. They would sit there in their suss suspenders. Winston churchill had some line about countries who go down without a fight dont tend to rise up again, but countries who go down fighting, although they go down, they have a future, i think theres some truth to that, at least at the individual level. Im not saying you should fly off the handle. Thats how Sunny Corleone got killed in that tollbooth, right . We need to be smart. But i think when you look at the story of what happened at the republican party, as people was saying, theres a lot to it, but one of the pieces is cowardice. Its that at some point, republican elites, republican leaders decided to sublimate their opinions, their anger, and their pride and basically bow to Donald Trump. And i think there have been multiple times where there have been offramps. Where republican leaders could have stood up and fought him. And every time they have shown to really be wimps. And so i think, the interesting thing to me, joe, is, you know, im from a rural area. And the kind of Country Cowboy Conservatism i grew up with. People if you insulted someones family. If you insulted their family. If you insulted their dignity and their honor, man, theyd come out fighting. But these republicans today, they dont have that same mentality. They really dont. I must say, i dont get it. I dont get so much on so many fronts, but the wimp factor, i really dont get. That they allow themselves to be insulted and they dont push back. They dont fight back. They let themselves get run over by this guy, and they dont make him pay, too. Youve got to make Somebody Pay politically, if they come after you. Its that simple. And none of them do. None of them have. And thats why he continues to run over them. You know, pete wehner, the thing i actually loved about the republican party back when i was a member, and you and i are a perfect example. Weve been good friends, we worked together on projects, but we also fought pretty tough when you were in the bush White House. I was a deficit hawk, some that worked with me would say a deficit freak, but we would have really tough back and forths. They were always thoughtful, usually they were respectful, sometimes i would have been a little too harsh on my side of it, but we got through it and all came together at The End saying, this is how were going to make a better party. This is how were going to win the next election. There is just no i mean, for the party that had Jack Kemp and other people in the early 1980s and newt in 1994, who had thousands of ideas and as Bob Dole said, even one or who of them were pretty good, we were the party of ideas. Thats for now, at least, over. How disheartening is that for you, an Ideas Guy . Thats one of the things i really lament, joe, youre exactly right. You were children of the reagan revolution. If you go back to the 1980s, there was a real confidence in the intellectual power of conservatism. Antony scalia, james t. Wilson, a social scientist, welfare reform. Helen bloom, closing The American minds. There was a real pride in the thought that went into conservatism. That began to wane. I think it began in the 90s. Gingrich is an interesting example. He combines two elements. He was creative intellectually, although sometimes he really went off the rails. But i think it was the temperamental danger that Newt Embo embodied. I was a little concerned about at the time. But then youve got sarah palin, who was a very significant figure in that. And the republican party jettisoned being the party of ideas, so now its dr. Seuss and mr. Potato Head And Culture wars. And there is just no engagement with ideas or no interest in policy and governing, so this is all all of these things are tangled together in the republican party. And has to be pulled apart. It is not a Conservative Party right now, its a populist party. Its an ethnic nationalist party. Sometimes its incidentally conservative, but in many ways, its antithetical to conservatism, including one of the core tenants of conservatisms, which is the dangers of Mob Mentality and the passions of the people. And right now it is enflamed in dangerous passions. It is a violent party as we saw on January 6th and it will get more violent unless people stand up to it. Hey, matt, its Jonathan Lemire, a few moments we were talking about the Washington Post reporting. It draws fewer visitors that the Pet Adoption Site petfinder and the Recipe Side delish. We can all agree on the need for a good Chicken Cacciatore and a beagle, perhaps, but it shows you how hard Donald Trump is having right now getting his new message out there. But he still has the conservative media and so much of the republican party in his thrall. You also wrote about Kevin Mccarthy, who after Brief Break if the president after January 6th, has sidled up to him again. Give us your analysis here. Is there any sense at all that mccarthy will do anything other than march in lockstep with trump as he tries to become the Majority House Speaker in 2022 . I dont think so. And this goes back to the other column i wrote at the daily beast. I think that Kevin Mccarthy is one of those republicans who could have stood up and certainly, if there was ever an opportunity, that offramp would have been after January 6th. He did criticize trump briefly, and then they evolved pretty quickly into, you know, its almost like, lets count to ten and go back to our abuser, is basically what they do. I think Kevin Mccarthy is not a leader, hes a follower. And republicans by all counts really ought to win the midterm. They should take back the house, just for historical reasons, the wind is at their back. But theyre looking a few things. And one of them is really a message. Kevin Mccarthy Cant lead his caucus. They Cant Talk about Joe Biden. They Cant Talk about the looming inflation, the rising crime rate. You name it, all the things that you could talk about if you had a coherent, conservative message. Really, instead, Kevin Mccarthy is at the mercy of the whims of Donald Trump. Luckily, Donald Trumps online game aint what it used to be. But still, in all, Kevin Mccarthy doesnt have any control over his caucus, over who what the message is going to be. And so, you know, look, i think the republicans probably still got lucky, just because of all of these external factors, but if youre counting on Kevin Mccarthy to help put you over the top and for him to become speaker, you know, think again. Matt lewis and pete wehner, thank you very much, appreciate you being on. Kevin Mccarthy Cant even talk about the assault on the capitol with his colleagues, many of them getting traumaized and people getting hurt. He cant even talk about that. The funny thing is, he actually did talk about it to them and he talked about it to anyone that would lesson on january the 6th. Right, on that day. Yes, he was very scared, actually. He was harshly critical of Donald Trump, which was appropriate. And now hes lost his voice. Its so sad. Joining us now, we have washington Bureau Chief for washington today, susan page, and positivity national action network, Reverend Al sharpton. God to have you both onboard this morning. Rev, a couple things going on right now. Were coming up its the Oneyear Anniversary of the murder of George Floyd. Also this past weekend, and ive seen you with the head of adl repeatedly over the last several years, rise of antisemitic attacks from new York City to los angeles. Deeply, deeply disturbing and they just continue. Well, yes, im in minneapolis, where yesterday we had a rally with the George Floyd family foundation. Bridgette Floyd And Other Members of the family. And the momentum is going washington to meet with the President Tomorrow on the actual anniversary, where many of us around the country will have a nineminute, 29second Stand ing at the house of justice and around the country, to try to push for the George Floyd policing act, Justice And Policing act. And we hope the president will meet with civil rights leaders to play a part in making sure that happens. But at the same time, you Cant Fight against Racism Or Bigotry just in your silo. And the attacks that were seeing around the country that are based on antisemitic attacks must be just as deapplauded and denounced as we see antiblack attacks. Weve made oppositions clear about a twostate solution. But for people based on the fact that people are jewish, just go on your own and commit crimes that are based on that must be denounced unequivocally. When i was a younger activist and met to meet with abraham hashel, who marched with martin luther king, that whole idea of bringing black and jews together is something people have worked on for decades, even when we disagreed about some of the lines on the west blank and some of the policies may be. But to stand by and watch people just attack, being attacked in Times Square and other places because theyre jewish, we must race our voices against that, as we also ask jjews and arabs to raise their voices with us on George Floyd and other cases. You cant have it any other way. You must fight against any wrong, or you dont have the moral authority to fight when you are wronged. And how do those challenges play into President Bidens next 100 days . Youre writing about that and aub talking about how the next 100 days will be a lot tougher. Its where reality meets the Road And Reality can often bite. He was able to get through that big covid package. Weve seen the happy results with the decline in covid deaths and covid hospitalizations. That was very encouraging. But he had hoped to sign that George Floyd criminal Justice Act Tomorrow on the Oneyear Anniversary of George Floyds murder. Thats not going to happen. Its possible that the criminal Justice Bill will be able to get through the senate, but not on time. Infrastructure talks stalled. And you saw him pulled into the conflict in the Middle East because it is not an issue that an american president can avoid, but probably also not one that an american president can solve anytime soon. These are some of the challenges. Exactly, its really, quite precisely the lesson that his predecessors in the White House have learned, which is, you dont always get to pick your priorities, but your ability to avoid being overwhelmed by things that happened around you is really a test of whether youll be successful or not. So susan, what is the strategy right now as far as coming to a deal with the republicans or deciding to cut them loose . Are they still working close to show joe and Senator Sinema theyre doing absolutely everything they can to work in good faith, to get a bill with republicans before passing it on their own . Those two democratic senators are the silent partners in these talks, these bipartisan talks between republicans in the White House. Because if those talks dont result in a bipartisan deal and it is increasingly unlikely that they will, those are the Manchin And Sinema are the two that the White House needs to convince to stand with them if they move to reconciliation. I think that is increasingly the likelihood that were going to see. I think it is increasingly likely that well see democrats turn to a party line vote, and with those very narrow majorities, you have to make sure they can hold every democrat if thats the route theyre going to take. Reverend sharpton, a year later, the New York times yesterday had a lot of postmortems and lookbacks over the past year. Where are we a year later of George Floyd . Well, we are still needing to see federal law. Were at the same place we were a year ago when it comes to federal law. Were taking some steps forward on the other levels. We saw the conviction of Derek Chauvin here in minneapolis. Something weve never seen before. It was the first time in the history of this state of minnesota that a white policeman was convicted for killing a black. But then right after the conviction, there was a black young man killed ten miles from here in bedford center, minnesota. So we see steps forward, but we see that we must do a lot more. And that is federal legislation. Until we can legislate it from a federal level, well keep going from incident to incident. This is winning around with the chauvin verdict, but we havent won the fight. Reverend al, thank you. The Usa Todays Susan page, thank you very much for being on this morning. Lets get now to Mayor Bill De Blasio, who is joining us now. He has a Bill Announcement to make exclusively with us about new York City public schools. Mr. Mayor, thank you. Whats the news. Mika, its good news. New York City public schools, 1 Million kids will be back in their classroom in september, all in person, no remote. Wow. Thats the news. Parents, kids, everyones been waiting for to know, were going to be back strong, ready, safe, covid is plummeting in this city. Im happy to say. Were almost to 8 Million vaccination doses since day one and its just amazing to see the forward motion right now, the recovery thats happening in new York City, but you can havent a full recovery without fullstrength schools, everyone back sitting in those classrooms, Kids Learning again. Thats what were going to have in september. Thats going to make a big difference for a lot of struggling parents, too. Whats the model for other cities to make this possible. What has it taken to make it possible to get kids back in the classrooms . Mika, we set a gold standard, really, from the very beginning. Getting Health And Safety measures from around The World that we saw worked in schools. Kids had masks on in all of our schools for the whole time. Lots of cleaning, lots of ventilation. We layered all of these approaches and it worked really powerfully. Weve had much, much lower levels of covid in our schools for months and months. Much safer than any other place in the city. And the city has been getting better now for quite a while. We have had the lowest Covid Positivity for seven months now in new York City. Well be doing a version of that, but well do that again in september and look, we know, especially now, more and more kids and staff will get vaccinated. Weve made vaccination available everywhere. Its time. Its really time to go full strength now. So this is great news for so many new York City parents. None more than Jonathan Lemire, who can go back to watching Soap Operas in the afternoon and start his online betting habits. Its who he is. Its who he is. He needs it for his reporting. Its like his hemingway moment is the soapoperas. You get to watch your stories again. Days of our lives has been a staple for me for a long time and im glad ill be able to reengage with this after this news. Currently, now in september, there will be no remote option. Right now, fully 60 of cities students are doing it remote. How do you overcome the hesitancy of their parents to convince them to go to send their children back to school . And how do you physically do it if there are still social distancing requirements that could lead to crowded classrooms. Hesitancy and social distancing . A lot of communication is the answer to the first. Well welcome parents to come into schools, starting in june, see how much has been done to keep them safe. Get reacclimated. Well do that throughout the summer, coming into september. Anyone who has a question or concern, come into your childs school. See whats going on and get the answers. In terms of the overall approach, look, we have proven that we can beat back covid all over this country. And school oppose four months from now. So i absolutely believe covid will continue to go down, vaccinations will go up, recovery will be strong. I think the cdc will be changing those rules quite a bit between now and september. But right now, new York City public schools, we could have every child 3 feet apart, if we have to. But i fundamentally believe by august, the cdc will relax those rules further to recognize the Progress Weve made in this country. Fantastic. Tell me, mr. Mayor, theres a race going on many new York City. Just curious what your thoughts are about the participants. Is there anybody that you support or anybody who concerns you . Joe, im only going to say this. We have a recovery going on right now in new York City and it has to be a recovery for all of us. It really has to be inclusive, it has to be a recovery that does not just replace the previous Status Quo before the pandemic, but takes us somewhere better. On december 31st, im handing the baton to someone. Im not going to comment yet on this race, but ill say this much. Its very close. Voters have not yet paid a lot of attention. I think youll see in the last week or two before june 22nd, theyll finally consolidate. We also have Rank Choice Voting for the first time in new York City. I think it will be a much tighter election than most that were used to. Are you concerned about the candidacy of Andrew Yang . Im not going to talk about any individual candidate. I only know Andrew Yang a little bit. I find him a very likable person. But heres what i would say about all the candidates. That is a really tough moment. New York City is coming out of arguably the biggest crisis in our history. And weve Got A lot of things that we have to get right at this point. So the next mayor better be ready to hit the ground running. I think Thats Something the voters are going to weigh heavily. Unlike a noncrisis environment, i think this time, voters will weigh experience, understanding of the city, a sense of how to actually get things done and i think that will weigh heavily in their minds. New York City Mayor Bill De Blasio. By the way, morning joes dr. Dave campbell enjoyed spending time with you and your wife last week when he was up interviewing you. We love dr. Dave and he said joe can have as many hamburgers in the morning as he wants. That its actually a new diet trend, that its okay. No, its just so gross. Bill De Blasio, thank you. Still ahead on morning joe, could u. S. Officials be under silent attack . The Havana Syndrome first affected diplomats in cuba and now the biden administration is being pressed to act. What is it . Whats happening . And what are we doing about it . Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. Watching well be right back. 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Talk to your rheumatologist about rinvoq relief. Rinvoq. Make it your mission. If you cant afford your medicine, abbvie may be able to help. 37 past the hour. The biden administration is facing pressure to investigate a growing number of mysterious attacks on u. S. Diplomats, spies and military personnel. Intelligence officers are working to confirm if Microwave Radiation is being used as a weapon to affect the health of u. S. Officials in what has become known as Havana Syndrome. People believed to have been affected have reported headaches, dizziness, and in some cases, a loud noise before the sudden onset of symptoms. Joining us now, Staff Writer at the New Yorker, adam entous. His latest report is entitled Stealth Mode how the Havana Syndrome spread to the White House. And he writes in part this, top officials in both the Trump And Biden administrations privately suspect that russia is responsible for the Havana Syndrome. Their Working Hypothesis is that agents of the gru, the russian Military Intelligence service, have been aiming Microwave Radiation devices at u. S. Officials to collect intelligence from their computers and cell phones. And that these devices can cause serious harm to the people they target. Yet during the past four years, u. S. Intelligence agencies have been unable to find any evidence to back up this theory, let alone sufficient proof to publicly accuse russia. Intelligence is an imperfect science, a u. S. Intelligence official told me. Its what you know and it can change in the blink of an eye. There is still agreement about how to refer to the incidents. Privately, officials characterize them as attacks. Publicly, they refer to them as anomalous health incidents. And adam, you are detailing for the first time what happened to three white House Staffers, including a senior National Security Council official, what became ill on the grounds of the heavily fortified White House itself. Tell us about that. So, this staff this member of the Nsc Staff was finishing his day at work. And he walked from the old Executive Office Building and made his way down to old to west executive avenue, which is right across from the west wing. And it was on those steps, as hes getting to, you know, right across from the Oval Office, when he began to have a very intense headache and felt and heard wringing in his ears. And at this point, he starts to lose control of his motor skills, particularly in his limbs and fingers. And he has about a 600yard Walk to his car. And on his way there, he falls, because he cannot control his legs. He thinks hes going to die at this point. He makes his way to a nearby street and he manages to get his Lyft App open on his phone and makes his way to the hospital. My god. Its remarkable, adam. And weve been hearing about these stories since 2016, i guess, through the obama administration, the Trump Administration, now the biden administration and it seems that every story is met with or at least in the past has been met with a bit of skepticism by others in the agencies. Is that skepticism starting to lift . Are people starting to realize that there is something more significant to this . Frankly, this is an incredible mystery in that the cia, the nsa, the national security agency, had not been able to find any intelligence. And after a period of time like this that goes by, where there isnt the intelligence, naturally, within any intelligence agency, there start to be the question, is there a misunderstanding, is this a collection of other ailments that could explain whats happening. You know, not much has changed on the Intelligence Side since that first incident in december of 2016. The Intelligence Community still doesnt have anything. There was an assessment that was done by the fbis behavioral analysis unit, where they concluded that this was psychogenic illness in those initial incidents in havana. They reached this conclusion without actually interviewing any of the victims. So this skepticism has sort of seeped into the bureaucracy and its been really kind of these cases where top Policy Makers actually know the victims. So in the case of these two White House victims, the nsc victim, top Policy Makers knew them and trusted them, and because of that, they sort of put aside the Concept Schism they were hearing from the cia, the Concept Schism they were hearing from the fbi, and demanded a reopening of this cold case. And really what happens is, they basically ask all the agencies, tell us your cases. And it just kind of opened a floodgate when all of these additional reports started pouring in. Obviously, we dont know the extent to which all of them are the same thing. Its very much a moving target at this stage. You do have one incident, though, where you talk about an officer pulling his car into a busy intersection in russia. Suddenly, he felt as though his head was going to explode, which sounds very consistent. A Cia Officer in the same city reported a very similar episode. One of the reasons we ask you today is because ive Got A good friend, lifelong friend whos in the agency who has a friend, who went to official trip to moscow, who had to retire because he Got Attacked, as well. But you say here in this one incident, later, geolocation data indicated that vehicles affiliated with russias military Intelligence Facility had been in the vicinity of both people at the time of their separate incidents. Is that perhaps one of the only pieces of evidence that they have that russia may be directly connected with this . Yeah, so there are approximately more than 130 instances around The World, right. Of the 130, in about a handful of those cases, including the two you just mentioned, they identified Gru Vehicles in the vicinity of The Americans that they got sick at the moment that they got sick. This is obviously something that the cia analysts have to look at closely and they are looking at it closely, but this data is, you know, shouldnt be viewed as necessarily like a smoking gun, because in a lot of these countries, where this is happening, every time a senior american spy or a senior american Military Officer leaves the embassy or leaves his home or his or her home, there is a Gru Vehicle following him or her around the city. So why does it only happen in this handful of cases . I think you mentioned, which is right, theres a lot of pressure right now on the biden administration. And there was pressure at The End of the Trump Administration to basically say, this is russia. Line up the perpetrator and shoot them, right . And the reality is, is that the intelligence is just not there. They have this circumstantial case and they have a gut feeling, based on a history of knowing what the russians are willing to do in other cases, but really, there isnt there really isnt the intelligence at this point to point to the russians or to retaliate in any way. That could change, as we say, you know, very quickly. But adam, there is also great skepticism that russia would be so brazen, and let me just say, so stupid, to launch an attack in the united states. And again, to think that russia would be asinine enough to attack a white House Staffer as theyre walking from the old Executive Office Building to the White House . My god the floodgates. I mean, it was it was heinous enough and shocking enough and caused enough damage to russia when we found out they were poisoning people in Great Britain. But to do it on White House grounds, that would open so many floodgates. Would that be worth it for any intel they gained . Yeah, no, i share your view that, you know, and frankly, the victim in that case, the Nsc Official completely agrees with you. And frankly, after it happened to him, he was convinced that it must be Something Else. There must be some other explanation for what happened. It was when he heard details from one of his colleagues about some of the other more extreme cases, that he thought, well, maybe this is what happened to me. And he reported it. You know, which was then added to this Running List of 130 plus possible cases. You know, that particular individual had just gotten back from a trip overseas. So, you know, he has basically, we just dont know really, you know, it is possible something happened to him, you know, theres a case thats cited in the article about a Cia Officer, a senior Cia Officer who goes in August 2017 down to havana, that night, she feels the pressure, hears the noise, calls a colleague to come check on her room. She goes back to sleep in the same room, goes back to langley a few days later, and a few days after that, shes beset by these symptoms. So were not exactly sure what happened or frankly, the doctors may have been right when they said it was a migraine with aura. The doctor that he saw at the hospital after he became ill. So we just dont know. We dont know. And Jonathan Lemire, im not suggesting that these people havent been attacked. It certainly sounds like there is a consistency to these stories and they may be attacked. And my only comment regarding russia was, they would have to be mind bogglingly stupid to launch an attack on the White House grounds. I dont think they are that stupid. But that doesnt discount a Terror State having this technology and deciding that they had im not saying its North Korea, but what would North Korea have to lose if they decided to launch that sort of attack . In fact, it would actually probably strengthen them in the eyes of other terrorist state. Im just throwing a bit of skepticism on the russian attacks on american soil. That doesnt seem to make as much sense to me. Russia, certainly, joe, has been extraordinarily brazen in other parties, interfering with leches. And we know behind or at least putin nodding and winking behind cyber attacks that took place in the united states and elsewhere. But dahmer, this is my question to you. Lets make it a twoparter. If russia is the leading theory and theres even not enough for the u. S. To retaliate, in your reporting, have there been any backchannel whispers to moscow like, hey, knock this off . And if its not russia, what are the other possibilities . Could it be North Korea, iran, some sort of other rogue state . Or Something Else entirely . What other things are being looked at . Well, at this point, you know, i dont think theyve whispered to the russians, knock it off, because genuinely, they really have no idea if its the russians that are doing it. So i dont think those whispers have happened. That might change in a few months, but at this point, i think the Cias Investigation is really kind of cranking up. Theyre making this a higher priority. So we might see intelligence Al Messaging to occur. As far as other potential actors, you know, frankly, very little has changed since the first incidents in cuba in that its the usual suspects. Right . In the absence of intelligence, you go to the usual suspects. They thought, all right, cuba is a police state. It must be that the cubans are involved. That was the initial assessment of the Trump Administration during that 2017 period when mcmaster was the national Security Advisor. They concluded that we dont really have any intelligence to show anybody we cant see who the perpetrator is. The cubans control their territory. Therefore, they must be complicit in some way or aware in some way. So its up to them to stop it. When the deputy national Security Advisor at The End of the Trump Administration learns about this in 2017 when he is a China And Asia advisor, he thinks it must be North Korea. He calls one of his friends within the government who is an expert who says, no, this is russian mo. Frankly, the Intelligence Picture Hasnt changed very much. It remains very much a cold care and a mystery. The only thing thats changed is the number of people who have come forward to say they had incidents or experiences that are somewhat similar to what we have seen in these Havana Syndrome situations. Adam, thank you so much for coming on the show this morning. Coming up, what is next for the white House Infrastructure Proposal after republicans rejected the latest counteroffer . We will talk to up with of President Bidens top economic advisers. Plus, Martin Beshire apologizes for deceitful tactics for the interview with princess diana. Morning joe is back in two minutes. Ome burritos oh, nice. Burritos . get a freshly made footlong from subway® instead. With crisp veggies on freshly baked bread. Just order in the App Ditch the burgers choose better, be better. Subway®. Eat fresh. So then i said to him, you oughta customize your Car Insurance with liberty mutual, choose better, be better. So you only pay for what you need. Hot dog or. Chicken . Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Theres interest you accrue, and interests you pursue. Plans for the long term, and plans for a long weekend. At thrivent, we believe money is a tool, not a goal. To learn more, text thrive to 444555, or visit thrivent. Com. Wanna help kids get their homework done . Well, an internet connections a good start. But kids also need computers. And sometimes the hardest thing about homework is finding a place to do it. So why not hook community centers up with wifi . For kids like us, and all the amazing things were gonna learn. Over the next 10 years, comcast is committing 1 Billion to reach 50 Million lowincome americans with the tools and resources they need to be ready for anything. I hope youre ready. cause we are. It is time, my friends. It is time. Its a euphoric time. Lets bring roger bennett. He is the author of reborn in the usa, an englishmans love letter to his chosen home. My lord, we have so much to talk about. We were in front of computers watching all of the nbc sports and peacock programming. It was like Nasa Mission control. I said, im going to watch liverpool. Tell me how chelsea is doing. Keep an eye on leister. The most remarkable thing, liverpool who had been considered long gone and out of europe for months, roger, they just came charging into the like John Wayne at The End of a 1950s western. More like jon snow. Im so happy for you. I really am. You are talking about the final day of the pandemic defying premiere league season. Enough drama. This is judgment day. Three teams vying for third and fourth place that bring with them moneyfilled buckets. Liverpool, defending champions. Five straight wins to close the season. The goal, the first of two. Not a beauty, but its important. Crystal Palace Lock up third place. They are dogged mentality monsters. Chelsea, resurrection appeared to be teetering at the last. They lost. It felt like their campaign had gone. All eyes turn. 40 minutes to go. Would they hold on . No. Its darkest just before the light. Punched the ball into his own net. Die a hero or live long enough score your own goal. Its like watching Bambis Mother be shot by hunters. Its like Cryptocurrency Collapse but wearing polyester shorts. Manchester city, i can hardly watch. They are your title winners. They were worse than ted cruz in this one. Farewell double for the parting player. City had been fast and lightning. They win the title for the third time in four years. Fifth time in a decade. More money than jeff bezos. They face chelsea next weekend. I wanted to ask, im not sure about the ted Cruz Reference there. I wanted to ask you about Man City. You talked to other teams. I know you talk to them all the time. Since Man City has spent way too much money, have busted through all the caps, have not been punished for fair play like they were supposed to, a lot of owners think they just cant keep up with city. What do you think . Its a geopolitical power play. In england they call it sports washing. Abu nation has Abu Dhabi has invested. They have created a Marketing Giant for the nation. Its a public relations soft power as you call it in america. On one hand, theres an emotional dissident with sports. We love the goal, the passes, glory. With we lift up the rock its not just in Abu Dhabi. Russian oligarchs owning teams for the same purpose with chelsea. The american sports owners have invested, for all the wealth, they cant compete. Its an imbalance. I should say, if we are talking about america before i go, because its a historic moment, 26yearold zach stephen, the first american to win a premiere medal. May many follow in his footsteps. Lovely moment. America is becoming a normal football nation. Usa. Roger bennett, thank you, very much. Thank you. Goodbye, roger. Thank you for being with us. You just pretend not to like this. We know you are football mad, obsessed for this. Stop. Stop. She loves all of this. One correction. City was able to buy the second best manager in The World. The first best still resides at anfield every weekend. Love you. Up next, sticking to sports, Phil Mickelson makes history at the pga championship. There were plenty of people there to witness it. That is where we kick off our next hour of morning joe. Get it in the hole here it is. Biggest moment of a legendary career, phil Defeats Father time. Phil mickelson wins this years pga championship. A historic victory for the Hall Of Fame golfer. The crowds were there to celebrate. Were they ever. My god look at this. They came pouring in. Galleries we havent seen for some time since the start of the pandemic. Phil, i mean, my goodness, first guy to win over 50. Thats pretty cool. Put him on the over 50 list. One problem there. Front to park, what a great performance from Phil Mickelson. We will talk about that in a little bit. Good morning. Welcome to morning joe. Its monday, may 24th. With us to kick things off we have white House Reporter for the associated john than lemire and u. S. National editor at the financial times, Ed Luce joins us this morning. Guess what . The Pandemic Outlook is improving nationwide as new Coronavirus Cases drop to rates not seen in nearly a year. Death rates are also as low as they have been since last summer. According to the cdc, 60 of people over 18 have received at least one shot and are almost and almost half are fully vaccinated, contributing to the sharp decline in covid19 cases. The vaccine makes a huge difference. Health experts do caution that the virus remains dangerous and communities with low Vaccination Rates not enough americans have vaccinated to extinguish the virus, leaving the potential for new variants that could extend the outbreak. There are warnings that come along with this good news. The message is to get vaccinated. The communities where people are hesitant to take the vaccine its great news. Its not helpful if you dont get it. Its great news. Look at those numbers. They are falling. Hospitalizations are falling. Covid deaths falling, the lowest in over a year. You saw yesterday that mob of people in South Carolina following Phil Mickelson up the 18th fairway. I think a lot of people watching were excited to actually see that theres a Sporting Event a huge Sporting Event where things were returning to normal. Im not so sure phil was excited about it. For a moment there, the crowds kind of got out of control. Its South Carolina. Its South Carolina. They are hardy people. They wear their emotions on their sleeves in very, very good ways and a couple bad days. Jonathan lemire, it was you are seeing a lot of not only Sporting Events but going out and seeing people getting back to living again a normal life. It sure is joyous for an awful lot of people. Not as we stay in our cave. We dont get out much. But its joyful for most people. Inside the White House, i mean, you know, i look at my wwd, whats in, whats out app. Inside the White House, hugs in, masks out. Hugs in, masks mostly out, joe. First of all, there at the pga, it seems like they Lost Control of the crowd a little bit. They were right on top of phil. Exactly. That was spectacular, which i know we will get back to. In terms of the White House, they have been so mindful, the biden administration of trying to broadcast to the nation how they should be the people the people of america should respond to the pandemic. We know President Trump when he was in office, he and his staff were cavalier about the virus. They didnt wear masks. They didnt practice social distancing. We saw several covid outbreaks in the White House. The symbol of the government. The most powerful and fortified place in the nation, Hot Spot Time After time. Superspreader events linked to events at the White House. When biden and his team came in, the first image they saw of Joe Biden, he was in the Oval Office wearing a mask. They have kept that cautious Tone And Plan up until the cdc guidelines came down last week. We have seen now the last week we had the leader of South Korea at White House, full pomp and circumstance. Hugs, kisses, Vice President harris hugged a 95yearold Medal of honor winner. They are sending a signal to the nation, if you have been vaccinated, go back to your normal life. You dont need the mask. You can do the things we have missed, including charging Phil Mickelson at a major golf tournament. I guess so. Security had to get around him. Things were getting a little hairy for a second. Lets talk about britain and the rest of The World. India a tragedy. Other countries having problems. Great britain and the eu, is that still a tale of two stories . Great britain doing better than the eu . Eu has been catching up quite rapidly in the last few weeks. You have seen some of the scenes we have in New York and here in d. C. Of normalization. You see in paris, in berlin. Europeans are catching up. Theres been good news from britain which has had the double Mutant Indian variant alarmingly. They have done tests on whether the Pfizer Vaccine is effective against the double mutant. It turns out that it is effective against it. There was some concern that it wouldnt be, which would force us all back to the drawing board. So thats good news. I think the big issue remains the west versus the rest of The World. Only 2 of the shots that have been administered have gone to the 50 poorest in The World. Thats got to change. Thats a Conversation Biden is going to be having. Hes going to make his first foreign trip in a couple of weeks. It will be to britain, to the g7 summit. Thats a conversation he is going to be having with his european counterparts. Fulton county georgia now. It will undergo another audit of 2020 Absentee Ballots following claims of fraud. The ruling by a judge allows for the ballots to be unsealed and reviewed by a group of electors claiming Fulton County Election Workers counted fraudulent ballots. The review will be done under the Guidance And Supervision of a special master appointed by the court. It comes after the group filed a lawsuit in december. The state of georgia conducted three audits soon after the election, all of which reaffirmed the original outcome of the race. Meanwhile, republican congresswoman Liz Cheney continues to speak out. Sitting down with Jonathan Swann. You are trying to chart a new course for the party away from Donald Trump, away from the lie. It just seems like there arent people willing to buy what you are selling. Where do you get the hope for this, that this is going to work . Because i love this country. Because i believe in our democracy and i believe in our constitutional process and system. Because i look at it from the perspective of whats right. I think the future of our party has to be built around ideas. It has to be built around substance. Which ideas . I think we have to be able to make a substantive case for limited government, for low taxes, for a strong national defense. The Idea And Substance and policy are on our side. We have to get back to a place where we are making those arguments. How much culpability to republican elites have for fertilizing the soil for the Big Lie . Thats not at all how i think about it. You wont be surprised to hear. Why . I think when you look at voter fraud, it certainly exists. I resistance to voter i. D. You ought to show i. D. To vote. Theres a big difference between that and a President Of The United States who loses an election after he tried to steal the election and refuses to concede and then continues to say the election was stolen, suggesting that our democratic process is insufficient of conveying the will of the people. You dont see any linkage between Donald Trump saying the election is stolen and then republicans in all these State Legislatures rushing to put in place the restrictive Voter Laws . You have to look at the specifics. If you look at the georgia laws, there has been a lot said nationally about the Georgia Voter laws that turns out not to be true. Even the republican Lieutenant Governor of georgia said that there was when this bill started to pick up momentum was when Rudy Giuliani was testifying the Georgia Election was a sham. I dont think anyone doubts the reason 400 some Voting Bills have been introduced, supported by the republican national committee, i dont think its a coincidence after the election that this has happened. I think everybody should want a situation and a system where people who ought to have the right to vote can vote and people who dont shouldnt. I come back to things like what are they solving for . What are all these states doing . Well, each state is different. What was the big problem in georgia that needed to be solved by a new law . What was the big problem in texas . What was the big problem in florida . These laws are coming all arndt states. What are they solving for . I think you have to look at each individual state law. I think what we can all agree you Cant Divorce them from the context. Come on. I think what we can agree on is that what is happening right now is really dangerous. Jonathan swann joins us next with more of the sitdown with Liz Cheney and what she calls the danger of Donald Trump. You are watching morning joe. Well be right back. [sfx kids laughing] [sfx bikes passing] [sfx fire truck siren] onstar, we see them. Okay. Mother and child in vehicle. Mother is unable to exit the vehicle. Injuries are unknown. Thank you, onstar. My son, is he okay . Your sons fine. Thank you. There was something in the road. Its okay. Youre safe now. Its okay. 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When i think about 2000, i think about sitting on the inaugural platform in January Of 2001 watching al gore. We had won. Im sure he didnt think he had lost. We had fought this politically very, very intense battle. He conceded. He did the right thing for this nation. That is one of the big differences between that and what we are dealing with now. And the danger of Donald Trump today. Jonathan, thanks for being here. A great interview, as always. Congratulations on that. Its very funny. I remember about a year ago it must have been a year ago, somebody said write the thing that will most surprise people about you. Gary casper, who was harshly critical of Donald Trump and was something of a hero to many on left said, you all will be so surprised and so disappointed after trump is gone by how conservative i actually am to which i retweeted and said, amen. Liz cheney is there. Shes being heralded by people who have attacked her her entire life. They will start attacking her again. You hear that interview, guess what . News flash. Liz cheney is a conservative. Shes not only a conservative, shes probably on the right of the party. Shes a very staunch conservative. People forget, she was a warrior during the obama years. Shes now this anathema to the republican base. But thats where her heart is. She decided to take a stand on January 6th and the Big Lie and Donald Trump. The problem with all of this conversation is, you know, you talk about there being three parties, she really is a Fringe Figure in the republican party. Its not that theres this huge group of people who support her and mitt romney. There arent, in terms of republican voters 70 of republican voters consider Joe Biden illegitimate. Theres polling to show that. 70 . Thats extraordinary. Thats where the party has gone. The party actually has left Liz Cheney. The real challenge she has if shes going to chart the new course for the party is she has to bring these voters back to the party. Many of them have left the party. Its not clear that the people who consider themselves republican voters are going to be amenable to what Liz Cheney is selling. Whats her next move . Well, its unclear to me, actually. Her primarily election in 2022 is going to become a Proxy Battle For The Future and in her view the soul of the republican party. Donald trump and his political operation are desperately trying to find one person to run against her. They havent figured out who yet. The problem for them right now is theres a number of people who have declared themselves. One of them had impression nanlt impregnated a 14yearold and described it as a Romeo And Juliette scenario. If the field remains divided, shes Got A decent chance. If they settle on one, shes in trouble. You have to remember with Liz Cheney, this is important to understand, look at the empirical. Shes three times more popular among democratic voters than among republican voters. When you talk about the parties, you really need to just remember where the republican electorate is at. They are not where Liz Cheney is right now. Jonathan swan, thank you very much. Coming up, our next guest compares the economic recovery to coming out of a coma. You dont just get up and run a marathon the next day. How long until the country is back on track . We will talk to is a celia rouse. Did you know you can go to libertymutual. Com to customizes your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need . Really . I didnt aah ok. Im on vibrate. Aaah only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. I booked our hotel on kayak. Its flexible if we need to cancel. Cancel. I havent left the house in a year. Nothing will stop me from vacation. No canceling. Flexible cancellation. Kayak. Search one and done. When you buy this tea at walmart, walmart can buy more tea from milos. Milos can create new jobs, jobs for people like james and lacey and me. 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Of course, the Vaccine Rollout in america occurred after trump was defeated. The left in britain is destroyed, really. Largely its selfdestruction. The democrats have regrouped under biden. They put up probably The One guy who could have defeated trump, and he did. They, therefore, have a second chance at reestablishing themselves as competent in government in american eyes. Thats an opportunity the left isnt getting in too many other parts of the democratic world. I think the parallels with brilliant are less salient than they would normally be. Theres nothing in the western world to compare with one of two major parties rejecting the rules of the game, embracing essentially an authoritarian cult like the republicans are doing and getting more into it as the defeat of their Cult Leader gets goes into the rearview mirror. Its becoming more cultish, more jonestownesque. It is strange. The more republicans lose, the more of a Personality Cult Donald Trump seems to develop. You can look at his losses in 17 and 18, historic losses. Republicans lost like they have never lost before in the House Of Representatives just as far as the pure vote totals. They started losing in 19, governorships in the south. In 20, they lost the big race, lost the race for their presidency, lost georgia, lost the senate, lost the house. Rational parties, parties that want to rule, parties that want their policies to change instead of just these putting forth these hyper gestures, they selfadjust and elect cants candidates they can get elected. Donald trump is not that guy. He puts in many cases people in a difficult position to win general elections. It has the evidence of a serious cult. Im not saying it as a joke. Im not saying it not even an exaggeration at this point. Jonathan lemire, i want to clear one thing up. I have had some Family Members and friends ask me, if Donald Trump was so bad and this wasnt rigged, why did the republicans win and do so well In The House . Republicans over performed expectations. But its important to remember that the house still remained democratic and remained democratic by, you know i think they are plus nine, plus ten. Thats about the same biden did about the same that Bill Clinton did in 92 and 96. Much better than jfk if you look at the house side. Biden did much better than either party when it came to the senate. He was a net plus five in picking up senate seats. He picked up through senate seats in 2020. Donald trump lost two. You can go all the way back 40, 50 years and biden did much better than most. Its become Urban Legend that democrats got romped because the polling was so bad and the expectations were so high. This was not a historical anomaly. If republicans are running on, we did a great job, we only lost by ten seats, its kind of the way losers think. You either win or you lose. And they lost. Right. This is where two things can be true at once. The republicans did out perform expectations. They had a strong cycle. But not as strong as the democrats. It doesnt change the fact that under Donald Trumps leadership in the party, republicans Lost Control of the house, Lost Control of the senate and then eventually, of course, Lost Control of the White House. The margins are small. 50 50 in the senate. Democrats In The House is not large. As 22 approaches there are reasons for republicans to feel confident. Historical trends are that the party in power tends to lose seats in the midterms. It wouldnt take much of a swing to put that back in the republican column. Thats why they are doubling down on trying to put January 6th behind them. Thats why they are trying to. They have made the calculation in the shortterm, embracing trumpism, the republican leadership, mccarthy and mcconnell, even if mcconnell doesnt like trump personally and mccarthy is cozying up to him, they believe this is the way to go. We will see. In 2018, that off year election, that didnt go so well for republicans when trumps name itself was not on the ballot. We also the White House and democrats believe that they will have a shot to rebuke that historical trend. If the nation has put the pandemic behind it, if the economy has roared back to life there are concerns about inflation and so on. That could be a moment that they point to and be able to hold on to seats. The house will be tougher than the senate. They feel like they have a shot to maintain power in 2022. That would further Damage Republicans who are trying to stay cozied up to the former president. Bob dylan 101. We will talk about how The American icon who turns 80 is just as relevant as ever. Morning joe is back in a moment. Never run dry of. Killer attitude. Or hydration. Neutrogena® hydro boost. The 1 hyaluronic Acid Moisturizer delivers 2x the hydration for supple, bouncy skin. Neutrogena®. When i was young nonononono please please no. I never needed anyone. Front desk. Yes, hello. Im so. Please hold. Those days are done. I got you. All by yourself. Go with us and find millions of flexible options. All in our app. Expedia. It matters who you travel with. My name is austin james. As a musician living with diabetes, fingersticks can be a real challenge. Thats why i use the Freestyle Libre 14 day system. With a painless, onesecond scan i can check my glucose without fingersticks. Now im managing my diabetes better and ive lowered my a1c from 8. 2 to 6. 7. You can do it without fingersticks, too. Ask your doctor for a prescription for the Freestyle Libre 14 day system. And visit Freestyle Libre. Us to try it for free. A followup to a story we told you about friday. Martin bashir came forward over the weekend to apologize about his disgraced 1995 interview with princess diana. Denied it harmed her. Quote, everything we did in terms of the interview was as she wanted from when she wanted to alert the palace to when it was broadcast to its content. An independent inquiry into the former Bbc Reporter revealed bashir had forged documented to secure an introduction to princess diana. On having showed her brother Earl Spencer four bank statements, he said, obviously, i regret it. It was wrong. It had no bearing on anything. It had no bearing on diana. It had no bearing on the interview. According to the 127page inquiry report, bashir hired a graphic designer to forge bank statements to make it seem as though diana was being spied on by her own staff. During the sitdown, diana confirmed prince Charles Relationship with Camila Parker boles had damaged her relationship and made her bulimic. They called the tactics deceitful. In 1996, the bbc exonerated bashir. The recent investigation alleged they covered up the truth. The organization has written letters apologizing. That was a nonapology apology, because it did have a massive impact on the interview. The interview would have never happened without the forged documents, it would have never happened without the lies, it would have never happened if they hadnt gone to her brother to show the documents that then gave her an introduction, that then put her on the defensive where she felt like her own staff was spying on her, which of course started a chain of events that led very quickly making her feel isolated and embattled and putting context around her that was untrue. I watched the interview again after this report became public. Its kind of chilling, actually. To watch it knowing what really happened. It is chilling. You also look at the Family Members. Look at what the sons have said. Look what william said, look what harry said. They have no doubt and Dianas Brother who helped secure the interview, all of them have no doubt this interview would have never happened, this dark chapter in their Familys History would have never happened if he hadnt have lied, if he hadnt have forged documents. It is hard to trace the causation from that to paris, but certainly it is not a stretch to suggest that things started falling apart far more quickly because of those forged documents, because of the lies, because of the deceit that was used to secure that bbc interview. We turn back now to politics. As President Biden battles republican leaders to pass his trillion dollar Infrastructure Plan, the White House is touting its economic success. In a memo, the president s top economic advisors wrote, overall, we see a picture of substantial progress, bolstered by an all of Government Effort to change the course of covid19 and provide families and communities with economic support. We are poised for a year of strong Growth And Job gains. As the economy heals and interest rates remain low, the president believes it is the right moment to address longer term economic challenges. So we are laying the groundwork for strong, durable growth for decades to come. The president s goal is not to build back to 2019 but to build back better. Joining us now, one of the authors of the memo, chair of the white House Council of economic advisers, dr. Is a celia rouse. A lot of issues surrounding the economy. Somehow these payments are leading to some problems in terms of the amount of jobs that are available, the amount of jobs that are being filled. I have seen it on the ground. I have seen restaurants and different places not able to find workers to fill the jobs. And yet, is there an argument that these payments are fulfilling a bigger need . Absolutely. Thank you for having me. The american Rescue Plan was designed to help The American people get to the other side of the pandemic. It was first of all, remember, The American Rescue Plan has been funding the very effective rollout of the vaccinations, which is why we are all feeling that we are seeing the light at The End of the tunnel and that we can see The End is in sight. It also was funding extended Unemployment Insurance benefits to help people pay rent, put food on the table and additional assistance to businesses and other employers as well. The idea if we go back to when The American Rescue Plan was passed, i was watching you earlier and you have been showing the graphic of the number of cases. If we go back to january and february, we were in a very different place. We had no understanding of how long it would take for us to get to the other side. The vaccinations have turned out to be far more effective than at least i understood. We know that the Vaccine Rollout has been extremely effective. The american Rescue Plan was designed to get us to the other side. That is what it is doing. Players may be im sorry. We had a little delay. Go ahead. Finish your thought. Yes, employers are posting signs. Lets remember that it was only five weeks ago vaccinations were opened up for all americans over the age of 18. For the twodose regimen, its two weeks until they are fully vaccinated. Its going to take time. We have a nearly 23 Trillion economy. Its going to take time to put together employers and workers. Workers have to look for jobs. They have childcare arrangements they have to put in place. Its going to take time for us to put this economy back together. I dont know about you, but im seeing signs that that is starting to happen. We have heard from many people anecdotally, of course, but also have gotten letters, emails, calls from democrats and republicans in the service industry, the Restaurant Business saying they just cant get people back to work right now. In part because they would be making more money not working than by working. Is that a concern inside the biden administration . If so, whats being done to address it as we move into the summer months . Well, look, the president has emphasized that if for all workers receiving Unemployment Insurance benefits that if they are offered a suitable job, they need to take it. We certainly want workers to go back and enjoy get back to the fruits of the economy. But they need to be fully vaccinated. It needs to be safe. What we are seeing is a Market System working. Workers have supply issues. They have childcare arrangements. They are coming out of a pandemic. They need to find suitable work. Employers are just starting to open up and search for workers. In a market economy, prices are the signal, wages are the prices in the labor market. Employers, if they pay the competitive wage, have safe working conditions, because we are still in this pandemic, we are getting to the other side, cases are way down. We know that its only about half of working age adults are fully vaccinated. We are still seeing cases. Workers if employers provide a safe Working Environment and provide a fair wage, they are able to find workers. This will work itself out. Thats how a Market System works. Lets talk a little bit about women. I absolutely hear you on the fact that especially the women who have been hurt during the pandemic and any gains they may have made in their professional lives have been completely thrown off course. Some of them are completely back into taking care of the kids. Its not so easy just to snap your fingers and grab a job. You have a house to run, a whole life that you have been holding up on a shoestring. What has been put into place or what are you proposing to help specifically this population of women, which i think is in higher numbers than men in terms of being really impacted by this pandemic . You are absolutely right. This pandemic, which has affected every aspect of our society, including the shuttering of childcare centers and schools, has been a real struggle for caretakers and as you point out has been a disproportionate burden on women. As part of The American Rescue Plan, there is funding to get schools back open. Theres good research that suggests that as schools have reopened, employment has increased across states. Its really by getting the money to the states so states are opening up, we hope to see summer camps open. Theres funding in The American Rescue Plan for schools to provide that extra supplemental time over the summer so that children can be catching up from some of the delays they have had over the past year. We are very optimistic that as schools reopen, as day cares reopen, that especially women, but all caretakers of young children can get back to work. It will take a little bit of time. We know that will happen. Its for that reason that i, myself, have my eye on the fall when schools open and many school systems are saying they will open fully because the school thats open half day is not helpful to somebody looking for fulltime work. When schools fully reopen, i have full confidence that women will be able to rejoin the labor market. Lets be clear, many people have been out of work for over a year. It will take some time. Its something we call scarring. Skills atrophy. People are out of the workforce. Some jobs have disappeared. People may have to do retraining or they will have to look in different places. Its going to take time to get them back to work. Thats why The American Rescue Plan has been so important. Thats what we are doing to try to help people get back to work. Dr. Rouse, its Jonathan Lemire. Good to see you. We know Theres Infrastructure talks. According to those involved on both sides, they have stalled. To a broader point, i wanted to ask you about this. Senate Minority Leader mcconnell has said the policies are causing inflation and hurting job growth. Why does the biden White House think there is a possibility of working in a bipartisan fashion if the people you are working with, those republicans, say what you are trying to do is hurting the economy . Well, President Biden is committed to building back better. Again, i was watching earlier and i heard joe say that dont bet against americans. Dont bet against The American country, that we are innovators, we are feisty, we know how to innovate. Thats exactly what The American Jobs Plan is about. Its about investing in research and development. Its about investing in infrastructure. It really says, look, the public sector has a role to play in this. We know thats true with the Vaccine Development and rollout and getting through this pandemic. President biden understands that this how important these investments are for us retaining that global leadership. He said, look, inaction is not an option. We dont want to raise revenue by taxing people who make less than 400,000 a year. Aside from that, he is open for business. He understands how very important these investments are. He remains committed to trying to work on a bipartisan basis. We have the administration put a counteroffer on the table. They look forward to what the republicans have to say about it. Dr. Rouse, thank you for coming on the show. See you soon. Up next, our tribute to the iconic Bob Dylan on this his 80th birthday. We are back with that in 90 seconds. Weve got em on the ropes. The billionaires buying elections. The corporate special interests poisoning campaigns with dark money, frantic to preserve bigmoney politics as usual. Because the for the people act is on the verge of becoming law. Reining in corporate lobbyists, finally banning dark money, and protecting our freedom to vote. Billionaires and special interests, your day is nearly done. Because its time for the people to win. The idea was to put a tour up, combination of different acts on the same stage for a variety of physical styles. I would say its a traditional review, but it wasnt the traditional form of a review. That sounds [ bleep ], you know. Im trying to get to the core of what this rolling Thunder Thing is all about, and i dont have a clue. Because its about nothing. Its just something ha happened 40 years ago. Thats the truth of it. Why dont we go down that road . Why dont we . Lets go. My dont remember a thing about rolling thunder. It happened so long ago, i wasnt even borne. That was the scene from martin Scorseses Netflix Doubtry rolling thunder Bob Dylans story. Today is Bob Dylans birthday, one of the most influential musicians of all time. Modern day troubadour. Inspired artists. Robert zimmerman remains a leading voice in our national conversation and around The World through his music. The man who has sold over 125 Million albums yet never had a number one single who plugged in at newport in 1965, who shocked The World, who once famously penned the lyric, i was so much older then. Im younger than that now. Turns 80 years old today. Celebrating Dylans Life and legacy, writer for Esquire Charles Pierce and richard thomas, he teaches a wildly popular seminar at harvard, affectionately dubbed dylan 101 on the legendary Musician And Author of the book why Bob Dylan matters. Charlie, we went to the metrics. 100 Million records sold, i think more than anybody in the rock pantheon, popular music, nobody measures his influence on not just american music but the culture of this world. Can you help our viewers understand that a little better . I think on his latest album, which came out of the blue last summer, right when we needed it, i will point out, he used a line from Walt Whitman and most of us that were evolved from his career said, okay, we knew that. The guys had about seven careers in one. Yeah. I think about the terrific movie im no there, where they had all of these different people playing bob throughout his career. Its really the only way to do a biography of the guy. Hes been so many people. Its an extraordinary its an extraordinary american life, lets put it that way. A life of american reinvention. Time and time again. Richard, of course, most famously when he went electric at the Newport Folk Festival in 65, was booed on stage. And just as people started to figure him out, he in 79 the slow train coming, he got booed in the opening shows there when he started doing christian music. Talk about Bob Dylan, and i might say along with charlie the fact he continues to put out great music. I was shocked by what came out last summer just when we needed it the most. Exactly, yeah. That album is like no other album of dylans, something new happening here. Age 79, an album musically, lyrically, in all sorts of ways is just amazing. I made up my mind to give myself to you, is a song of pure Love And Commitment and just the lines he picks, no one ever told me. Its just something i knew, i made up my mind to give myself to you. And old but now clear voice. Dylans voice, like the personas that todd haynes picked up, dylan manipulated those voices and its marvelous to have this new album. Which has a lot of nice stuff on it, greeks and romans, and dylan put himself into that tradition. Becoming adisous in the album tell tift in 2012. For those who may be younger and never dove into dylan or followed dylan, can you explain how important his albums were in 65 and 66, not just Rock Music but to popular music . Highway 61 revisited and blonde on blonde. He did break it all back home. Highway 61 revisited it and blonde on blonde, and incredible burst of productivity. Fueled by god knows what, of course. I always kid people and call that the great trilogy. But that was the first mold that he broke. That was the first time he changed popular music so radically. Bruce springsteen said what elvis did for your body, dylan does for your mind. He kicked in the door with those three records, in terms of what you can do as a songwriter and i think the best witness to that is that he affected both John Lennon and paul mccartney, and drove the beatles to develop their own voices. Its impossible to overstate the Insew Lens he had on the beatles, just like the beatles had on all popular music. Then he has the Motorcycle Accident and goes away and then he comes back with national skyliner, completely different singing voice. And a real gentler side. Then he tends to go away. In 1974 he unleashes one of the best album i maybe ever heard. When you listen to the songs, with buckets of rain, its an incredibly painful record. He had tangled up in blue, it took me six months to write that song and three years to live it. Blood on the tracks, obviously, one of his greatest one of the greatest. Tell me, richard, do you have a favorite Dylan Album . Is there any way for you to boil it down to that . Or one Dylan Album that mattered more to music for you . I was 24 when that album that charlie mentions came out. To me, i brought blonde on blonde was the only album songs of Leonard Cohen is the only albums i brought with me in 74. Leonard cohen started singing after Bob Dylan. He wrote but didnt sing his poems. Song like simple twist of fate and shouted from the storm and his ability to paint images. He started painting at that point but to paint the images of the scenes with the changes of pronouns, he, she, i, which sort of brings us into the towns and we can be the he, we can be the i, we can be the she. Just the Lear Cal Poetry of a Situation Love that isnt working out. We all feel it but we cant put it into words in the Way Dylan did for us. So once we have that possession, we can apply it to our own lives and thats what dylan is about, hes singing our songs for us. Bob dylan turns 80 years old today. Charles pierce and richard thomas, thank you both very much for joining us this morning. And that does it for us this morning. Stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. Hi, there i, im Stephanie Ruhle live at Msnbc Headquarters here in new York City. It is monday, may 24th. Theres a lot going on. Lets get a little smarter. This morning as we get closer to the official start of summer, covid cases are at their lowest level in almost a year, with nearly half of all u. S. Adults fully vaccinated. Excellent news. Just a few moments ago, we learn learned new York City school district, the largest in the nation will be