We will see what the tally is, how this fits into calls for accountable beyond just the prosecutions that occurred. Well have that all for you as it happens and unfolds, Breaking News in our hour. Also, the other big story, the legal heat on Citizen Donald Trump is hotter than ever as a measurable fact in New York. Under Criminal Investigation there. The new York Attorney general confirming this and announcing in something that has shocked and angered Trump World that she is formally joining the Manhattan Probe in a way that confirms it is a Criminal Probe of Trumps Business dealings, finances, everything going on. The Ags Office alerted the Trump Orb to this fact. Up until this point, outsiders viewed what was going on at the Attorney Generals office as primarily or likely a civil matter. This is a Criminal Probe. That means depending on where it heads that people could wind up in jail. Now, we dont know who this probe is specifically targeting right now. Prosecutors certainly arent tipping their hands that way. We dont know if it could still end with a finding that there is not enough evidence. The fact a Criminal Probe exists doesnt mean it ends with charges, of course. We dont know if it would be one person or more than one person. But jail being on the table Changes Everything for anyone anywhere near this thing. This is, simply put, a very big deal. The investigation reaching a point where they have to inform those involved if anyone involved has their rights. Now, that could include, of course, the person at the head of this Trump Organization, Donald Trump. It could include other people who were involved in the Trump Organizations recent activities or anything within the new York Statute of limitations. Now, this is a big deal. Let me show you Something Else. We will put it on the screen here. Donald Trump Today basically saying what he thinks about all of this. Its a corrupt, Desperate Search or a crime that he implies never occurred. Now, you have seen, if you ever watched the news or, for example, the beat, you have seen us cover legal proceedings. He has every right to make his defense every time including impugning or attacking the investigators. But legally that statement doesnt do anything. And the other big difference is one we all know about. It is one that basically courses through so many of the stories today, including what congress is deliberating on right now, whether to fully investigate what happened on January 6th. What was January 6th about . What was about Donald Trump losing the election. It was about him being the electoral loser. That means, as a practical matter, he is now a regular citizen. He has no president ial powers to arm him legally or in the courts as he deals with a serious investigation. He doesnt have a hand picked Attorney General to come in and interpret everything as much as that person and in the instance of the mueller probe. And he no longer has a pardon power, which proved to be quite pivotal as he pardoned those that had his back to The End. Sometimes these stories can be exhausted. But i want to remind you of Something Else that is super important. Not important because of what you think about Donald Trump. But important to remind everyone that the Rule Of Law still does function in this country, however imperfectly. There were years of battles over whether Donald Trump could keep his Tax Returns hidden. He lost that long battle and that connects to this Case Tonight because the new York Attorney general is working with the d. A. Who obtained years of Tax Returns and millions of documents pertaining to Donald Trump and many of the issues under review at the Trump Organization. The manhattan d. A. Has also been moving closer, we know to trumps Inner Circle including the Money Man Allen Weisselberg. He knows a lot about everything Donald Trump did and wanted done through this Trump Organization. Prosecutors are pressing hard to get him to cooperate. They even subpoenaed a Private School where half A Million dollars of his Grandchildrens Tuition was paid for, signed by weisselberg which might seem pretty ordinary, or Donald Trump himself, which is not. Michael cohen definitely turned a lot of Peoples Interest to weisselberg and the way the money worked when he gave that infamous or famous, depending on who you ask, Testimony To Congress in 2019 before he went to trial saying trump deliberately provided misleading or false valuations in official documents. Remember, lying in Daytoday Life is not technically a crime. Lying to the government, to tax authorities, to anyone in the new York Government about what you have and what you paid, that can be criminal. So keep that in mind before i bring in our experts because here is what cohen told me about trumps Money Man weisselberg. The only few people that in the Trump Organization that know anything about the taxes is mr. Trump who knows everything about everything, Allen Weisselberg, the chief financial officer, don, ivanka and eric. Those are your five. That is a Trump Lawyer in the know for years talking about a trump Money Man who has been in the know all the way through this year. Though Donald Trump remains one of the most controversial people in public life in the history of the united states, maybe the world, i want to tell you, this news is not about how you feel about Donald Trump or how he performed as president. His performance, however abysmal many people feel it was. We know the bulk of voters turned away from him when given a referendum is not under view in the courts. Indeed, i will tell you that how good or bad a president was should never matter in the courts. What matters tonight, whats so significant, is that the people who take the oath to enforce these laws without Fear Or Favor or partisan advantage, they are moving towards a more serious review of this as a criminal matter. That should only be because if theyre doing their jobs right they have evidence, not about Donald Trump the person or the politician but about Donald Trumps conduct and the conduct of the organization he ran, and they have evidence that makes them look at this as a Criminal Probe. And if they find something, well, they are duty bound to charge it. If they dont find anything, theyre duty bound to close out the probe. Everyone deserved the Due Process of this system. It is unusual in the extreme to have someone leave the White House and so soon find themselves in a newly announced Criminal Probe. It is a big deal. Where it heads from here should be as nonpartisan and fair as possible led by the evidence. Now given this big news story, we have lined up some experts that are very good with legal experts and im very happy to turn to them now. Emily, formal federal prosecutor John Flanry and jason who will bring up the inevitable political aspects of this. We will turn to jason on that. I want to start on the law and ask emily, what does it mean in english when at this juncture the new York Attorney general makes an announcement or a confirmation like this . Well, we know that the new York Attorney Generals Office is going to bring additional resources and Fire Power to this case. We also know that she has been in charge of a Civil Inquiy that the district Attorneys Office is running a criminal inquiry. And now were going to see how the threads of those two Lines Fray together. They seem to be interested in the same types of questions and material about fraud, about taxes, about these kinds of payments we were describing. And now these officers will come together. The fact they are joining together i would say is not good news for Donald Trump. Not good news for Donald Trump. And John Flannery who has been counsel to congressional delegations, john, i think you would agree with me that the courtrooms of New York are not the place to settle any political disagreements with Donald Trump. This is a huge story for any expresident. If a different expresident in whatever party were in this situation, it would also be our huge story. It would be a huge deal, notwithstanding some of the fatigue some people have about this president. What is legally important here separate from peoples views of Donald Trump . Well, i think separate from his views is his conduct, which we wouldnt expect to have an honest description from him. And i think that we have an ability to understand where this investigation is going. Usually you would have an ag and a da worried about turf battles. Instead, these two, these two heavy weights have come together. I think the reason they came together and when they came together was in february of this year. In february, the d. A. Got the tax records. And he soon after that said, i dont like steve bannons pardon and he was concerned about that. The a. G. Had also looked at that because of her Expertise And Charity work. Next thing we know is assistant Attorney Generals are embedded in the d. A. soffice while what is the d. A. Doing . The d. A. Is seizing weisselberg to give evidence. Now, theyre squeezing him for whatever they claim he did wrong as the chief financial office for 20 years and 20 years before that he was handling all the books and records. So they target him. But they also go after barry, his son. And i think the taxes, subpoenas and so forth were to say, did you declare these things . Did you declare that wonderful Luxury Apartment . Did you declare this income you got for tuition for your children . What about that no Show Job you have done at Central Park . I think theyre squeezing weisselberg by squeezing his son. Now, who else are they squeezing in steve bannon. So i dont know what will come out of this. But when you go from a civil case of significance to a criminal case, you decided that the Trump Organization is the subject of investigation, the organization, trump and the children identified by The Ag in the past. So i think this is a big deal. Now, they have done more in New York between The Ag and the da than anybody else in the america. You want to have guts for glory, they have it. And i think that theyre looking to close. For one thing, there has to be concern about the statute of limitations. Going back to weisselberg, Mark Pomeranz has been working over weisselberg. And vance, who is no sleeper himself when it comes to asking questions, has been attending and watching this rather than participating himself because he wants this to be done efficiently and he wants this done while it is on his watch and he wants it done before the election and hes concerned about the statute of limitations. So what do we have here . We have a day of horror for the Trump Organization, all of them, from trump right down through the family, finances and everything else. You can go and do Trash Talk all you want on tv. Trump has some experience on that, but it doesnt mean anything. Whatever your title was before this investigation began, youre in a tough place. And i think it is your day of reckoning. I cant say when because we dont know enough. They have very carefully contained what theyre doing. John laying out about five different distinct points. He does it seemingly without notes. It is quite striking. Young lawyers could learn from you, sir. And you mention one of the five points i want to get to before if you cant do this, you shouldnt be in a courtroom. Fair. But of the five, i want to Go To one on the law, and then jason is going to come in on the Way Trump is playing this because you mentioned who were dealing with here. This is important. Bob mueller got a lot of attention over time and he was well known in public life. But right now the person who has as much, if not more power, than mueller with regard to Donald Trumps future is someone who Donald Trump cant touch, cant effect, down in florida or elsewhere, but new York Attorney general Letitia James has become a big player here. Shes been in two years now and has been saying she will hold power accountable. In this state, we have a set of laws that every Individual And Entity must be held accountable to. Regardless of who you are, regardless of your power. Now, those are words. Does the record show it . Well, its included regardless of who you are a probe into the top democrat in all of New York, governor andrew cuomo. Now trump is playing his Defense Today partly by arguing that james is somehow only going after him or republicans. He accuses her of, quote, literally campaigning on prosecuting him. So briefly, john, what is the legal standing, if any, of that kind of Counter Attack . And then jason will pick up the political dynamics that trump is trying to lean into, something that he has rhetorically benefitted before when he could make it about the deep state, in this case the state of New York. John . Well, you know, he, trump, depends on the ignorance of the public not to know that ag is already investigating Cuomo On Two investigations that have been identified publically and if they lead to Something Else, they will lead to Something Else. Whereas trump we have been looking into him for years now. We have had agreements. Hes paid 2 Million as a result of the fraud of one of his earlier charities, which sort of rhymes like this problem here when you are talking about steve bannon. You know, the trouble with trump is the only time you can ever rely on anything he says, policywise or truth, is if he is implicating himself in misconduct. That is the only time you can rely on him. That might be a little harsh. Hes not my pal, you know. There isnt a person well, you know, john, its overstatement. I mean, what if he orders a cheeseburger. Can you rely on the words to connote that he wants a burger . You mean his appetite . Well, i know he loves mcdonalds. I dont mean it that way. Now i really feel like im in law school. I mean you said such a judgmental statement where there are other times when his words have some content. But i will take it out to jason that jason has been a documented liar, so the idea that he says about this or that Case Or Defense doesnt go very far. What is he doing here trying to make this about a prosecutor that many in the nation might not have thought much about like the new York Attorney general. Heres the thing, ari. Excuse me, jason. Yeah. So, ari, this is the thing. This has always been Donald Trumps Go To. When i get in trouble, i find someone to attack. If it happens to a black woman all the better. But we have to understand the larger context here why hes doing this. The corruption in the Trump Organization has been out there. They have been playing with money. They have been avoiding taxes, and they have been doing this with impunity. He knew that William Barr would protect him under any investigation. Well now thats over. Hes not the president anymore. He cant get people to just cover for him. So his best bet is, hey, look over here. Look at the black woman attacking me. Look at the democrats in the deep state. Heres the problem, though. Hes not in power. His kids arent in power. Nobody really owes him anything. A lot of the political leadership they dont owe anything to Donald Trump. No matter how many 909 word statements or documents he releases, i dont think he is going to be as effective this time and rhetorically distracting people as he has been in the past. And if this investigation ends up going, because it is only a small group that runs this, if this investigation finally gets ivanka or jared or any of his kids, that will have an impact on their political fortunes heading into 2022 because it could make other members of his family toxic beyond just him. Emily, take a listen to how Letitia James has discussed the fact that no one is above the law. Should be charged with obstructing justice. I believe that the president of these united states can be indicted for criminal offenses. Thats a partly legal question from a couple years ago, emily. But it also speaks to how shes carved out her role. She doesnt seem afraid of the democratic governor or the former president or any of that. Right. I mean, what you want here is the independence of the Attorney General, of the District Attorney and the fact that they are representing new York State as opposed to the federal government puts them at a different level of our federalist system than the one that Donald Trump used to be at the head of. And that, i think, is a asset for their independence. You dont want a prosecutor or Attorney General who has made up his mind or had a political axe to grind. It is on all of us to watch this carefully and make sure that if there is an indictment that it is super compelling. And, yeah, that might mean there is a higher standard for charging a former president , but given the political significance of that, given how weighty it is to have criminal charges against someone who used to run the country, i think thats okay. I think thats actually a good thing if were all watching especially carefully in making sure that these prosecutors really have their ducks lined up in a row. Right. And, i mean, its pick your plot, whether its a movie or a classic novel. This is building to potentially one of the biggest decisions they have to make and they have to make it for the right reasons in the right way, and it will be scrutinized and pressured in every direction. So we have heard from many people in these tough calls the best thing of course is for them to make the right call based on the evidence even in a potentially higher justifiable standards that emily reminds us because people who are charged you have to bring them to New York and you have the Booking Photo and the whole country sees that booking and you go through the rest of that process. Whoever those people may or may not be at Trump Orb, this is the whole big even Chill Lad Da or as john would say the trumpy cheese berger. I have to fit in a berg. My thanks to emily, john and jason. We have our shortest break of the hour. Just 30 seconds. When were back, The One And Only James Carville as we await a historic vote on the January 6th commission. We also have Barbara Rest Tonight when were back in 30 seconds. In 30 seconds. The same. The rx, crafted by lexus. Lease the 2021 rx 350 for 439 a month for 36 months. Experience amazing, at your lexus dealer. Think of what peanuts have given Humanity Fuel for vast Migrations Sustenance for Mountaineering Expeditions and long journeys across the world but most importantly . They give us something to eat when we drink beer. Planters. A nut above. The new York Attorney general joining the Criminal Investigation led by the manhattan da. We are joined by a special guest with unique insights. A former senior Trump Organization official, executive Vice President. She worked with Donald Trump for over a decade. She also wrote the Book Tower of lies. Thanks for coming back on the beat. My pleasure. Good to see you. Good to see you. Based on your Experience And Knowledge of how Trump Org operated, mr. Weisselberg, the finances and the rest, do you have the sense that these investigators will find a lot of things that went right up to the line or over the line . Both. I mean, he always goes right up to the line every single thing he does, not just the mantra. Thats the way they operated the Trump Organization. But if need be, go over the line, absolutely. What do you Think Weisselberg is feeling and thinking today . I Think Weisselberg is very concerned about his kids. I think that what theyre doing is the kind of thing they did with flynn. Remember his kid . I dont Think Weisselberg will let his son Go To jail. So thats what hes doing. You dont . And maybe im no, no, no, no, no. We watched this all. And i dont view it as a soap opera. In my time in law and journalism, every single person has a real heart. They have a real soul. They have a real family and these are tough, tough situations when people are looking at their own legal jeopardy or their family members. So this is not a soap opera. But we did see different type pollgies. We saw Paul Manafort who was willing to do hard time and give up the goods and he was ultimately rewarded by Donald Trump. We dont know if they could ever prove how district that deal was because its easier to do time if you know it is going to end after the election or not versus open ended. And then there are others who werent going to do a day. Go ahead. Ultimately is not the right word. In my opinion, this was all a done deal, before, before. Same thing anywhere else. You could say that let me just say, barbara, you might very well be right. I cant say It Journalistically because we havent true sourced it. We havent confirmed it. Youre saying you have deep knowledge of this man Donald Trump and that leads you to think they have struck a deal. But build out your point on that and build out your point on what that means for investigators pressing weisselberg if hes not someone that will do time but he knows about the money. This is my opinion. I dont know facts. But i do know donald, and i have seen him operate, and i have seen the organization operate. Weisselberg has evolved into a different person. I dont know exactly where hes at now, but i knew who he was. He bowed to Donald Trump. So he adores Donald Trump. And that trump knows and has relied on as this trusted and probably the only trusted party left other than family. But you put Allen Weisselberg and like you said everyone has a heart. I would question about that when it comes to donald, and i mean that. But weisselberg will not he will not Go To jail, and he will not let his children be thrown under the bus, so to speak. Because there is no pardon coming down the road. The only thing that trump has to offer right now is money, and i dont know that money would pay off jail time. Final question. If Donald Trump did something over the line in these recent years within the statute of limitations, do you think he left enough fingerprints for these investigators . Trump has a way of getting people to do things he wants them to do without saying, do this. And cohen talked about that, too. That is the way we all lived there. It is not like id like to see this. What would it be like if this happened . Maybe this should happen but not go out and make this happen except, except when it came to people like carol who i dont know. I havent heart about her at all and people like alan. Yes, im sure he told them what to do. Now whether alan will talk, who knows . That remains to be seen. But fingerprints, yeah, hes got fingerprints. You know, sometimes they say those who know dont talk and nose who talk dont know and i have seen examples of that. Barbara knows it well and is willing to talk to us and were grateful for that and people can which can out the Book Tower of lies. Thank you for coming back, barbara. It was my pleasure, ari. Appreciate it. We have a lot more on the other angles on this development, including will Donald Trump have to sit Down Under oath in a way that he never did in any of those probes while he was president. Also, the house has begun the formal vote on the other big story i told you about, creating an actual commission like the 9 11 commission to deal with the maga riots. James carville is here on that and a whole lot more when we come back. Come back. Try Nervivenerve Relief from the worlds 1 Selling Nerve Care company. Nervive contains Alpha Lipoic Acid to relieve occasional nerve aches, weakness and discomfort. Try Nervivenerve Relief. Its so busted, you Cant Use this part of the screen. Definitely cracked every phone ive owned. announcer you broke your phone, so verizon broke the rules. 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Xfinity internet customers, switch to Xfinity Mobile and get unlimited with 5g included for 30 on the nations fastest, most reliable network. Right now we are watching the house, which has begun voting on this question of creating a January 6th commission to investigate the maga capitol insurrection. Were joined by an adviser to president clinton James Carville. Thanks for being here. Hi, ari. How are you . What is 504 . The Area Code. It is kind of a fun thing, you know . Respect. Im sure down there everybody knows it. 212. Yeah. Im not a 212 guy. I was going to say. You know all your Area Codes. So now you taught me something. I want to show the evolution we have seen with some republicans claiming at one point that they either cared about what happened on January 6th. That is, it is a bad thing. Or even it should be investigated. Here is some republicans supporting the commission. The american people and the Capitol Police deserve answers and action as soon as possible to ensure that nothing like this ever happens again. The imperatives have a public objective, factbased investigation of a Capitol Attack is not a bipartisan issue and should not be treated as much. Nearly five months later, we still dont have the answers to the basic questions who knew what . When . What did they do about it . And we are now getting a view of who is consistent. The tally is still coming in. But we have rough count now. About 28 republicans voting for this commission. The vote is ongoing right now. We will give people the results as we get it. Most democrats have been on record supporting it. You have some republicans being consistent. Others being inconsistent and really running from the idea that this should even be investigated. James . Its worse than you think because the first guy you say, congressman katka, he was authorized and they had this entire agreement that everybody was onboard with. And then, all of a sudden, the republicans figured out that this was not good for trump so they all changed. It is even worse when you look at the facts of it. It is much worse than it is on the surface. The deeper you dig, the worse it gets. Motte romney was furious at i mean Mitch Mcconnell. Look what he does. It is Donald Trumps party. It bends to his will at every junction. That is just simply what it is. Even on this. James you name checked mcconnell. We have a quick fact check on him. Take a look. President trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of the day. I have made the decision to oppose the house Democrats Slighted and unbalanced proposal for another commission to say the events of january the 6th. James . Well, it was the head of Homeland Security and the ranking member that hammered this out. I mean, its not even factually correct on its face. There are a lot of democrats saying the White House ought to be more involved in this. I mean, when it comes to trump it doesnt matter. Theyre going to say whatever they have to say to appease and please Donald Trump. And Mitch Mcconnell, it doesnt matter that he makes a fool of himself time and time again on national television. He has to bend to trumps will. People say, i told Mitch Mcconnell hes had enough of trump. No, he hasnt. Did you ever think, james, you would be looking at the united states of america and see a political party actively or in the majority oppose investigating such a grievous attack on our own capitol . Ari, my view is there is no such thing as a republican party. It is a trump cult. Its a kind of clumsy, awkward, whatever a political party is. It is a cult of Donald Trump. And it is that way because that is what republican voters demand. They demand that the republican party will about Donald Trump and Donald Trump alone. And Mitch Mcconnell and Kevin Mccarthy have found that out. They know it. They dont speak for the party. The reason they are, if theyre not, they will not retain their positions in leadership. This is something that did i ever think i would see this . No. Neither did the 504 Area Code or 212 Area Code or any other Area Code in the country thought they would see this. But that is whats going on. The republican party is now officially a Personality Cult. You know, 20 of people like that. But the majority of the republican party is now a Personality Cult. And we just have to cover it that way and we have to deal with it that way. Well, and its that serious when it is response to documented political violence because this is how democracies can come undone. And there has been times whether there has been violence in the past thats been linked to various fringe groups or political groups and the test has always been for every official to rise above that. I know you care about the campaign season. I know you campaign hard. But i also know you care about facts and the country at large as a patriot. I want to play a little about the president you advised and how he tried to summon unity after the horrific Oklahoma City bombing. Take a look. Let us let our own children know that we will stand against the forces of fear. When there is talk of hatred, let us Stand Up and talk against it. When there is talk of violence, let us Stand Up and talk against it. In the face of death, let us honor life. James . Of course. I mean, Thats President clinton. He never ever pitted one american against another. Neither did most people in politics. Were now praising people for being in a democracy. Think about where we are. Im 76 years old. I never thought about democracy. I never said, gee, im a real patriot, you know, im participating in the electoral system. Im part of the greatest democracy in the world. That democracy is under serious threat now. We dont care what you think about capital gains. Just please be prodemocracy and well keep all the praise that we possibly can on you. We all took that for granted. We never thought i never thought i was a patriot. I dont think that, you know, Mitt Romney ever thought he was being patriotic. I think it is just a position you grow up in the united states and that very concept is being attacked. So i dont know. Its just a very difficult time to go through. I thought it would get better. It seems to just deteriorate by the hour. And i hope that your previous guest, the only thing that can stop it is in cy vances hands here or Letitia James. Thats what can get the republican party back to being a political party because right now it is not a political party. You saw that with Kevin Mccarthys actions. You have seen it across the board. It is a Personality Cult that bends to the will of a single personality. And i dont really think thats an arguable position. I think thats just, its raining outside, okay . It just is. If you step outside, you will get wet. I promise you. Thats where we are. I think you lay it all out there. It is raining. You tied all the big stories together and they all related in the sense of whether this country will face up and reckon with some of these problems or not. I want to thank James Carville. I think we will go full here, take a full look at our screen. I will read off. Time has expired on the vote. They have not gavelled the vote into a formal ruling yet. But if we look here at the house floor, i think we can see the vote there. You see over 200 votes in favor of this commission. 245. 158 nay. 33 republicans right now on record for the commission. 158 against. And so what you see here again, as a matter of formal procedure, this has not been gavelled in, we are not reporting in the final house action. But time is out. Only 33 republicans in The End ultimately voting for the investigation of what happened in their own chamber, the attacks on their own place of work, the public threats to their own lives. Were going to keep an eye on this for when, as mentioned, the formal House Procedure continues to gavel it in. Im joined right now by former u. S. Attorney for the southern district of New York, david kelly, who knows his way around complex investigations and who, full disclosure, was once my legal boss. Good to have you back. How are you, ari . Im good. We have so much to talk to you about, including some of the prosecutions you have led. There was the Bernie E Evers Case where you deal with a complex financial crime. She was charged with securities fraud. It was one of the largest Accounting Scandals at history. Mr. Kelly got the conviction, connected the dots. Evers conviction at the time was, quote, i never knew. He claimed he didnt know about technology or the underlying Financing And Accounting that was going on sort of in his name. David, we bring this up because trump used a similar defense in other cases ranging from ndas to saying he doesnt know things because he relies on others. Remember this. Hes an attorney. Whatever decision he makes, you are supposed to rely on an attorney to make the decision. Client privilege. But its also called reliance. Thats a hard defense to pursue. How does that work . Go ahead. Go ahead. A couple of issues here. First off, lets talk about the new York Attorney general coming into the case. What does the new York Attorney general bring to the case . She brings, among other things, venue. Because, as you recall, some of the Real Estate that is at issue here is outside the manhattan District Attorneys, you know, jurisdiction, Number One. But more important brings the morton act. The reason i want to harp on that is because it is a State Law Eligible to be prosecuted by the new York Attorney general that doesnt require the normal knowledge. Trump is talking about the advice of counsel defense. In other words, i relied on my lawyer. That doesnt hold water unless a bunch of things happen. Number one, the attorney had all of the information. Number two, you did exactly what the attorney told you. And, three, it was reasonable reliance on the attorneys advice. In other words, you knew that what the attorney was telling you was accurate because you gave him the real facts. You knew what the attorney told you was good legal advice because there is no shenanigans. You cant say to the lawyer, hey, this is what we want to do and why dont you find a way for us to do it because we know its really not kosher. That doesnt work. So, you know, ultimately he may have an advice of counsel defense, but to be clear, it is a difficult defense to bring in any case and it typically failed because of some of the hurdles or a lot of the hurdles, some of which i just mentioned. Yeah. Build on your point that this Attorney General joining the criminal part of the case brings new tools when you say that the use of that particular law, the man act, means there is a more powerful way to pursue the Trump Org or anyone potentially committing these crimes including potentially Donald Trump. How would that work . That might be a slip of the tongue because that is a prostitution across state lines act. What were talking about is the martin act. Excuse me, the martin act. It was enacted in 1991. It is a really broad fraud statute. More people understood it when Elliot Spitzer was the Attorney General who threatened to use it a lot because of this murky element to it that you dont really have to show knowing, willing, intentional conduct. If they were generally aware of it, it may fly under the martin act. And Number One, you dont have to intend to commit fraud. But if fraud happens and you knew of the conduct that was resulting in the fraud you are probably going to be guilty of the martin act. I think by bringing the Attorney Generals that tool with the District Attorney is investigating, i think when you put the two together it is really a potent, potent weapon for them both and it also makes an awful lot of sense to share resources. It would be silly to bring two separate cases. One for The Ag, one for the new York Attorney general. When you put all that together, when you have a broader jurisdiction both under the law and a broader venue and you can get more acts into one case. So that may be what they were thinking about when they joined forces. Thats the last thing i wanted to ask you about because you have been inside these kind of cases. The joining of the forces. I mentioned evers. You did martha stuart. Those are cases where you may have sec or other groups around. You did terrorism cases. Obviously you have main doj and other agencies involved. When you see the Ag Link with the da like this and publically confirm it as they did to such great intrigue last night, what does that tell us on the outside about the status of the case . For example, it seems to imply that the da is not about to close up shop and say no Charges Tomorrow if they make this announcement today. What do you gleam from that after being been in some of these situations at this point . Were all Reading Tea Leaves at this point, but it is not unreasonable to figure they both put their foot on the gas a little wit more. And recognize that people dont i mean, the general public doesnt appreciate the competition amongst Law Enforcement agencies. A lot of turf battles. It is not uchb often you see them joining forces, particularly in this case. When you think through why they might have done it, its even more significant. Hard to say how far along they are. Mark pomeranz is a former. The Attorney Generals office has really good people on this case, and i think putting them altogether makes tremendous amount of sense. If i was the target of that investigation, i would be not a happy camper. Maybe you saved the most interesting for last, david, because i know youre careful with your words. But youre saying put it all together. If you are the target or a more senior person, this is a bad and sad day. Interesting. David, thanks for coming back. My pleasure. They havent gavelled it shut yet. More on that breaking story right after this. 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Were looking at the floor of the united States House where, as you can see, 250 members of Congress Voting on the big issue of the day, whether to begin a full investigation of the January 6th insurrection. 175 on the right there in opposition. 35 republicans voting with the democratic majority here. They can see you can see the clear majority. This has not been gavelled into a final vote. We can see the outlines of support to do this commission. 175 republicans, the bulk of the party opposing the commission. This comes after a busy and turbulent couple of days. Republican leadership turned not only on the commission, but on their own negotiators. Were watching some business there, you can see, right near the if im seeing correctly, it looks like were seeing the Speaker Approach the lectern at the gavel. Lets listen in. On this vote the yays are 252, the nays are 175. The bill is passed. Without objection, a motion to reconsider is laid upon the table. There you have it. Speaker Pelosi Gathering in the vote. A largely party line. We saw the gavel there still next to a nicely appointed bottle of sanitizer. A 2021 moment. To take this in and understand how a congressional investigation like this works, former prosecutor and a counsel to multiple congressional probes, John Flannery, joins us. Hes been providing legal analysis on more than one story tonight. John, it is so easy to get lost in all of the drips and drabs. Lets take a Step Back and walk us through first what it means that the united States House has now taken this step to have a full investigation beyond and apart from the criminal prosecutions which happened in a different branch of government, to deal with the attack that also killed in that very building. I think the significance is not only that the democrats carry the day, which was expected without anybody apparently stepping back from that proposition. And despite the fact that the republicans did Step Back, mccarthy, the minority leader, stepped back from an agreement that seemed to be in place, meaning that they were cowed again by trump, the Orange Menace from the west wing. And he still has this power over republicans. Now, the democrats probably whipped their vote or maybe didnt have to do much, but no one could whip them two Vote Forward of the 35 republicans who did. So i think thats a strong statement that all is not well in the big lie, which is a critical aspect of what the commission is going to look at, and i find that encouraging. We go from here to the senate, and the question is are we going to get the 60 votes, or is there going to be a motion among the democrats to pass this on a Majority Vote . And in the past, manchin and others have resisted that. This is such an important thing, i would hope they do it. We heard through the day people who draw strength from the fact that the 9 11 commission did its work and answered questions that they had, those who suffered and lost people and cared about what this nation did. This commission has become that, that we want independent, respected people to arrange a staff to do some very careful studies and to tell us what happened on that day, not just what we all know, but who, if anyone, did more . Who betrayed their office, for instance . What was the president doing from the time he told people to Go To The Hill . What was he doing in the White House . There are a lot of questions. Those are the questions that will be answered by the commission. Rich will is important, its how we move forward, respect the body, the commission in this case, that would tell us what they found. There may be criticisms if they make errors. In the past weve had some terrific commissioners. Rick is a good friend of mine. He would be one of my models of people who participated. He not only as an individual who worked on it, he also helped bring people together to help people understand things that were going on. He was part of that. Those kinds of people are what we need for this commission, to send a word to america that democracy is sound, autocracy is not accepted and you Cant Challenge the government by threatening to take out the speaker or the Vice President and have nothing happen afterwards. I think the nation has a hunger for accountability, and we havent had it. Weve been talking today earlier in the show about accountability for acts that appear to be criminal but yet have not been charged, and maybe they wont be charged. Maybe they wont find a case. But the nation feels theres an accountability that has not been had and that were suffering in part because people do things. We ring our hands, grab our pearls, but then dont act upon the sanction or the punishment that is necessary to deter this kind of conduct from going forward. John, we were just watching the floor. I was listening to you. It looked like they had a moment of Silence Or Prayer after the speaker gavels this in. Ive just got about 90 seconds before i pass it to joy reid. You have done congressional investigations. What do people need to understand at the basic level of what a commission like this would do . What it would do is give a statement of the facts, give a statement of the law and propose remedies going forward of what we could expect. Those are the most important things. People would have to have access to summaries and so forth of these findings so that they can find credible the conclusions and understand the recommendations. And thats the hardest thing to move people toward change. This should be easier, but in these current times plainly its not when we see so many members of Congress Work toward a compromise on the republican side and then walk away from it. Were in a dangerous time when they would listen to a person who was at the heart of this offense. We do have the problem of the Conflict Of Interest of some people in the republican caucus and the conference who apparently thought this was fine and so dont want to be anywhere near this, dont want to be a witness, dont want it to happen. It has to happen for that reason alone. Or individuals who revealed in their moment of candor or even fear, understandably, that day and the days after that they thought it was terrible, that they demanded justice, some even in the republican party saying Donald Trump should be held accountable, that he was a part of causing it. They ran from that in public which stitches all of these big stories together, and we began this busy hour with you, john, discussing the confirmation of the Attorney General of New York doing a Criminal Probe of the former president. We end with the house trying to make law this commission to investigate what people did In The Name Of that then president to try to overturn democracy itself. It sounds heavy when you say it, but its why this commission is attempted to be created to day. John flannery, i want to thank you, thank all our experts tonight. If youre looking at the house floor, joining us here on the beat, thank you for following the news with us. The House Voting to pass a commission to investigate the sex of January 6th. Ill see you tomorrow at 6 00. The reidout is next. Good evening everyone. Were following a number of major stories tonight, including that stunning announcement out of the new York Attorney Generals Office that they are now pursuing a Criminal Investigation of the Trump Organization. Ill talk to former Trump Lawyer Michael Cohen a bit later. But we begin the Reidout Tonight with Breaking News. The house just moments ago voted to authorize a bipartisan plan to create a 9 11style commission, investigating the January 6th insurrection. Here is the vote, where, as you can see, 35 republicans had the courage to break away from Party Leadership to vote for the commission. 175 voted against it. In the days leading up to this moment, Kevin Mccarthy and many of his republican colleague