The predAwn AttAck, Another instAnce in the crossfire between hAmAs And isrAel thAt begAn lAst mondAy comes As u. S. Envoy Are on the ground there todAy to help cool the fire. Nbc <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/news-corn-correspondent'>News Corn CorrespondentA> <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/rAf-sAnchez'>RAf SAnchezA> is in beirut with more detAils. JonAthAn, in just the lAst few minutes, hAmAs followed through on thAt threAt And fired A lArge And heAvy bArrAge of rockets AgAinst isrAeli cities. As we speAk, isrAeli fAmilies Are in bomb shelters. PArents holding their children close And hoping thAt the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/iron-dome-missile'>Iron Dome MissileA> <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/defense-system'>Defense SystemA> will keep them sAfe. Ten people hAve been killed in isrAel in the lAst week. We hAve no immediAte reports of injuries from this lAtest rocket fire. But thAt comes in response to thAt deAdly overnight <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/isrAeli-Air-strike'>IsrAeli Air StrikeA> in <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/gAzA-city'>GAzA CityA> killing At leAst eight children. We now hAve more thAn 50 children killed in gAzA, in the lAst week. I hAve Asked the isrAeli militAry this morning, whAt wAs the tArget . WhAt were you Aiming At in <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/gAzA-city'>GAzA CityA> . They hAve not yet come bAck to me. They sAy in generAl, they do everything they cAn to Avoid civiliAn cAsuAlties but the reAlity is, gAzA is one of the most densely populAted plAces on eArth. If you drop heAvy weAponry there, the likelihood is thAt civiliAns Are going to get killed. Now the situAtion cleArly terrible for civiliAns on both sides. Lets fAce it. Its worse right now inside gAzA. JonAthAn . RAf, one more question for you. ThAt is this. There wAs At leAst 24 hours Ago, mAybe even A little longer, As we went into the weekend, hope thAt there might be A ceAsefire. WhAt Are the chAnces of thAt now . YeAh, things Are not looking promising right now. President biden spoke lAst night to isrAeli prime minister benjAmin netAnyAhu, And it wAs striking. The president did not explicitly cAll for A ceAsefire, According to the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/white-house'>White HouseA> reAd out of thAt cAll. He reAffirmed isrAels right to defend itself AgAinst rocket AttAcks, And thAt seems to indicAte thAt At leAst for now the president Accepts <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/isrAels-Argument'>IsrAels ArgumentA> thAt it needs more time on the bAttlefield to degrAde hA hAAs Abilities. There is A top <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/stAte-depArtment-officiAl'>StAte DepArtment OfficiAlA> in <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/tel-Aviv'>Tel AvivA> todAy, but As of now, we Are not seeing Any sign of An egyptiAnbrokered ceAsefire. And it is thAt egyptiAn mediAtion thAt brought the lAst three gAzA wArs to An end. The u. N. Security council is meeting todAy to discuss the topic. But i would just remind our viewers, were on dAy seven of this conflict. The lAst wAr in 2014, it went on for 51 bloody dAys. So we could be here for A while. RAf sAnchez from beirut, thAnk you for coming to the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/sundAy-show'>SundAy ShowA>. Joining us now, former <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/cAliforniA-congresswomAn'>CAliforniA CongresswomAnA> jAne hArmAn. Also the Author of <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/insAnity-defense'>InsAnity DefenseA> why our fAilure to confront hArd nAtionAl security problems mAkes us less sAfe. CongresswomAn, thAnk you for coming to the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/sundAy-show'>SundAy ShowA>. Im sure, As A former <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/house-intelligence-committee'>House Intelligence CommitteeA> member, rAnking democrAt, you hAve been wAtching this very closely. Your Assessment of whAt is hAppening right now in isrAel And <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/gAzA-city'>GAzA CityA>. Well, its A trAgedy All Around. We just heArd your report wAs thAt isrAelis Are cowering in bomb shelters. There is something cAlled iron dome, which is A multilAyered rocket <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/defense-system'>Defense SystemA> thAt certAinly i wAs A strong supporter of when i wAs in congress. Its 90 effective. So 10 of those rockets, And lets Assume theres An unlimited Amount, probAbly provided by irAn with <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/AdvAnce-guidAnce'>AdvAnce GuidAnceA> systems in them so, they cAn reAlly hit the tArgets theyre Aimed At. Lets Assume 10 of going to hurt isrAelis. ThAts one side. On the other side, As you report, so mAny pAlestiniAn children And civiliAns Are being killed by the isrAeli bombing, which is, they sAy, Aimed At tAking out this pernicious <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/tunnel-system'>Tunnel SystemA> under gAzA And Also tAking out the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/hAmAs-leAder'>HAmAs LeAderA>ship. HAmAs is A terrorist orgAnizAtion. Its not the pAlestiniAn Authority. ThAts led by <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/mAhmoud-AbbAs'>MAhmoud AbbAsA> who is bAsed in the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/west-bAnk'>West BAnkA>. So he cAnt reAlly stop this violence. But its i worry to think the third intefAdeh, certAinly, And could get much, much bigger As A <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/proxy-wAr'>Proxy WArA> Another <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/proxy-wAr'>Proxy WArA> in the middle eAst. Im glAd you brought up <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/mAhmoud-AbbAs'>MAhmoud AbbAsA>, the heAd of the pAlestiniAn Authority. Lets tAlk About him A little bit more. He cAnceled i think he cAnceled elections thAt were supposed to hAppen As A wAy of stopping hAmAs from coming into sort of officiAl power there. ThAts pArt of the dynAmic here, isnt it . And then well tAlk About netAnyAhu. Good for you. Yes, <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/mAhmoud-AbbAs'>MAhmoud AbbAsA> postponed An election clAiming the isrAelis were preventing votes in eAst jerusAlem, which mAy or mAy not hAve been true. I dont know. But the polls, so i reAd, were showing thAt he And his group were likely to lose the election. There were some responsible people running. The goAl would be, youd think, or At leAst i think, to elect responsible leAdership And to integrAte, reintegrAte. They used to be together, the theres no government, but the leAdership of gAzA And the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/west-bAnk'>West BAnkA> into something thAt will help protect the pAlestiniAn people. The point i wAnt to mAke is thAt we, the u. S. , cAnt wAnt peAce in the region more thAn the people on the ground do. And youre going to Ask me About isrAels Actions in A moment. Ill Answer thAt. But the pAlestiniAns Are kind of A mixed messAge here. HAmAs, the terror orgAnizAtion, wAs reAdy for the fight. And hAs engAged in A very, very drAmAtic wAy. Now lets tAlk About isrAel And <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/bebe-netAnyAhu'>Bebe NetAnyAhuA>, the prime minister, he hAd just come from An election where he wAsnt Able to form A government. And then this hAppens. TAlk About the dynAmics At plAy with him. Well, <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/bebe-netAnyAhu'>Bebe NetAnyAhuA> is the ultimAte survivor, politicAl survivor. And it looks like hes going to mAke it AgAin. Hes been indicted for corruption. Hes hAd four Attempts to form A government. Four elections, nAtionAl elections in isrAel in the recent yeAr. And this time he wAs not Asked to form A new government, but cleArly the effort to form A different government is in disArrAy becAuse of these Actions. So you could sAy, if youre cynicAl, the timing of this is perfect for him, politicAlly. On the other hAnd, And hAmAs is At fAult, too. So rAther thAn deciding who struck whom, i think it is much more useful to figure out whether something A <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/third-pArty'>Third PArtyA> like egypt, which hAs done this before, is Able to strike A ceAsefire And then hopefully both pArts of this will engAge in A conclusion of their elections And lets see whAt the leAdership looks like in the neAr future. Lets worry About the people on the ground, not just the survivAl of leAders. CongresswomAn, i reported thAt u. S. Envoys Are on the ground. Theyve been there since fridAy. WhAt would you Advise the biden AdministrAtion to do in terms of being involved in whAts hAppening in <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/isrAel-And-gAzA'>IsrAel And GAzAA> right now. Well, the title of my book is <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/insAnity-defense'>InsAnity DefenseA>. My point is since the end of the cold wAr, which we thought we won And everyone wAnted to be us. Whoops, chinA didnt wAnt to be us And terrorists wAnted to tAke us out And then we overmilitArized our response to 9 11, in my view. But At Any rAte, the title of my book is thinking we cAn do the sAme old things is not going to Achieve A different result. Im A strong supporter, i AlwAys hAve been of A twostAte solution. How do we get there if the people on the ground Are mAking thAt hArder . How do we get there if we we constAntly get pushed Aside. So whAt do i think biden should do . WhAt hes doing. And i think he should keep his eye on the broAder set of issues. RussiA And chinA Are big threAts to the u. S. At home, so is domestic terrorism. So is climAte. And so is the pAndemic. And we should mAke the biggest effort we cAn. AmericA hAs A vested interest in isrAel As A jewish stAte And A plurAlist democrAcy. And hopefully when the dust settles here, here i Am tAlking About <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/insAnity-defense'>InsAnity DefenseA>, well hAve isrAel in thAt shApe And A wAy forwArd for the pAlestiniAn people who deserve to live with freedom And opportunity. You AnticipAted my question About the potentiAl for A twostAte solution. Im going to push thAt Aside And my finAl question is going to be on this. My concern going into this weekend wAs thAt, At this point right now, we would hAve been tAlking About A <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/ground-invAsion'>Ground InvAsionA> by isrAel into gAzA. How concerned Are you thAt thAt is still in the offing . Well, i hAve no ideA whether thAts true. I meAn, one of the objectives of the isrAeli government is to destroy the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/tunnel-system'>Tunnel SystemA> under gAzA. And im guessing thAt cAnt be done effectively by Air. Those tunnels hAve smuggled in rockets And other mAteriel to AttAck isrAel for yeArs. So i hope it doesnt hAppen becAuse i think there will be civiliAn cArnAge. On the other hAnd, i dont wAnt the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/tunnel-system'>Tunnel SystemA> to survive. Its A conundrum. If i could mAke one other point. Trump AdministrAtion, i think, properly struck the AbrAhAm Accords, this public deAl between the sunni ArAb governments And isrAel. Its A good thing. Its now in obeyAnce becAuse these stAtes Are not going to embrAce isrAel As it AttAcks the pAlestiniAns, but everyone wAs prepAred to cut off the pAlestiniAns. Big mistAke. And biden hAs done this right. He hAs restored Aid to the pAlestiniAns, And i just hope thAt cAlmer heAds prevAil, egypt is successful And mAybe the u. N. Intervenes And we get A ceAsefire As soon As possible. Former congresswomAn jAne hArmAn, thAnks for coming to the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/sundAy-show'>SundAy ShowA>. Well hAve to hAve you bAck. Coming up republicAns be tripping. StAy with us. Nobody builds 5g like verizon builds 5g becAuse were the engineers who built the most reliAble network in AmericA. ThousAnds of smArter towers, with the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/5g-coverAge'>5g CoverAgeA> you need. BroAder spectrum for fAster 5g speeds. NextgenerAtion servers with superior network reliAbility. BecAuse the more you do with 5g, the more your network mAtters. Its us. Pushing us. Its verizon. Vs verizon. And who wins . You. If you hAve postmenopAusAl osteoporosis And A high risk for frActure, now might not be the best time to Ask yourself. 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SpeAk to your doctor before stopping, skipping, or delAying proliA®, As spine And other <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/bone-frActures'>Bone FrActuresA> hAve occurred. ProliA® cAn cAuse serious <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/side-effects'>Side EffectsA>, like low blood cAlcium, serious infections, which could need hospitAlizAtion, <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/skin-problems'>Skin ProblemsA> And severe bone, joint, or muscle pAin. Dont wAit for A breAk. CAll your doctor now And Ask how proliA® cAn help you. How greAt is it thAt we get to tell everybody how <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/liberty-mutuAl'>Liberty MutuAlA> customizes your <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/cAr-insurAnce'>CAr InsurAnceA> so you only pAy for whAt you need . I meAn it. Uhoh, sorry. Oh. WhAt . Im An emu no, buddy only pAy for whAt you need. Liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. I Also wAnt to thAnk <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/president-trump'>President TrumpA> for his support. My district voted for <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/president-obAmA'>President ObAmAA> by double digits And voted for <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/president-trump'>President TrumpA> And myself by double digits. President trump is the leAder thAt they look to. I support <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/president-trump'>President TrumpA>. The republicAn voters Are unified in their support And their desire to work with <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/president-trump'>President TrumpA>. Were unified in working with <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/president-trump'>President TrumpA>. My job representing our republicAn members, the vAst mAjority do look forwArd with working with <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/president-trump'>President TrumpA>. ThAt kind of cultlike loyAlty to <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/president-trump'>President TrumpA> is why they chose <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/elise-stefAnik'>Elise StefAnikA> As the new chAir of the house <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/republicAn-cAucus'>RepublicAn CAucusA>. She replAces <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/liz-cheney'>Liz CheneyA> who is wAy more conservAtive thAn stefAnik but who wAs purged becAuse she would not stop telling the truth About trumps lies About the 2020 election. As for trump, he is still spreAding the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/big-lie'>Big LieA> in A tweetlike stAtement this <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/weekend-lAshing'>Weekend LAshingA> out At his former <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/vice-president'>Vice PresidentA> <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/mike-pence'>Mike PenceA> And <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/senAte-minority-leAder'>SenAte Minority LeAderA> <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/mitch-mcconnell'>Mitch McconnellA> for not overturning the election. Joining me now, sophiA nelson, Author of <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/e-pluribus-one-And'>E Pluribus One AndA> one of the more thAn 100 republicAn signAtories cAll for renewAl to form A <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/third-pArty'>Third PArtyA>. And <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/tom-nichols'>Tom NicholsA>. Welcome bAck, both of you, to the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/sundAy-show'>SundAy ShowA>. Tom, you hAvent been here for A while so im going to stArt with you. PleAse explAin how it is thAt A womAn like <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/liz-cheney'>Liz CheneyA>, who voted with <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/donAld-trump'>DonAld TrumpA> 92. 9 ever the time is not loyAl enough to hold onto her republicAn <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/pArty-leAdership'>PArty LeAdershipA> And is replAced by someone who, if memory serves, is At About wAs At 77 voting with <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/donAld-trump'>DonAld TrumpA>. BecAuse the republicAn pArty doesnt cAre About policy Anymore. The republicAn pArty lives in feAr of its primAry voters And of the most extreme cultlike wing of its own voters And whAt those other republicAns in congress hAve sAid is we need someone who shields us from <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/president-trump'>President TrumpA>s devoted followers And <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/elise-stefAnik'>Elise StefAnikA> will <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/sAy-Anything'>SAy AnythingA> in order to keep thAt job And <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/liz-cheney'>Liz CheneyA> keeps telling the truth, which mAkes everybody uncomfortAble And which mAkes them embArrAssed And it mAkes them cognizAnt of whAt theyve done which they dont wAnt to remember And they dont wAnt to think About. From the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/point-of-view'>Point Of ViewA> of protecting people who wAnt to stAy in congress, for people who like living in the emerAld city, it mAkes sense. As A mAtter of public policies or conservAtive policy of Any kind, it mAke nose sense. SophiA, speAking About <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/living-in-feAr'>Living In FeArA> of <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/donAld-trump'>DonAld TrumpA>, hAve A listen to this, whAt <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/congresswomAn-cheney'>CongresswomAn CheneyA> told jAke tApper. We hAve more members who believe in <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/substAnce-And-policy'>SubstAnce And PolicyA> And ideAls thAn Are willing to sAy so. And in some cAses, if you look At the vote to impeAch, for exAmple, you know, there were members who told me thAt they were AfrAid for their own security, AfrAid in some instAnces for their lives. And thAt tells you something About where we Are As A country. So thAt <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/feAr-isnt'>FeAr IsntA> just feAr of A tweet. ThAt feAr is much lArger. YeAh, jonAthAn, look, <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/jAnuAry-6th'>JAnuAry 6thA> wAs the moment thAt i think shook us All to the core. At leAst i hope it did, And whAt <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/liz-cheney'>Liz CheneyA> is doing right now is reAlly brAve. Its very <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/mArgAret-chAse'>MArgAret ChAseA> smithlike. MArgAret <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/chAse-smith'>ChAse SmithA> being the only womAn in the senAte in 1950 tAking on joe mccArthy. And <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/liz-cheney'>Liz CheneyA> is stAnding in thAt vAin. But i think to your point, the question reAlly is, whAt is going on with members of congress thAt they hAve so little courAge thAt they dont understAnd thAt shrinking to this mAn, shrinking to the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/big-lie'>Big LieA> And going Along with it does not protect the republic. It does not honor the constitution. And thAt is why they Are there. They Are not there to keep their jobs. They Are not there to enrich themselves of engAge in lArgess, whAtever you wAnt to cAll it. And i get the feAr About your sAfety After <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/jAnuAry-6th'>JAnuAry 6thA>. Every member of congress should feAr, to some degree, for their sAfety, right . We know the cApitol cAn be breAched. It hAs been breAched. ThAts why this commission is so importAnt. This bipArtisAn commission. And i think were going to hAve to tAke A reAl hArd look At where we Are, like liz sAys, in our bAsic civility in the public squAre, jonAthAn. ThAts reAlly whAts At issue. Our bAsic civility in the politicAl ArenA hAs gone to the dogs, for lAck of A better wAy to sAy it. Its just in A reAlly bAd plAce. WhAt civility, given <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/mArjorie-tAylor-greene'>MArjorie TAylor GreeneA> chAsing Aoc Around the cApitol. Tom, so were tAlking About the disArrAy within the republicAn pArty, which i would think under normAl circumstAnces would hAve democrAts like this, you know, wAtching, prAying, bAsicAlly even thinking thAt weve got this. But cAn democrAts ActuAlly let me rephrAse the question. Will this whAts hAppening within the republicAn pArty, will it help democrAts . It should, but democrAts And, you know, im sure sophiA And others hAve seen this from the other side. RepublicAns AlwAys count on democrAts to selfdestruct. Its been kind of one of the secret weApons of the republicAn pArty is thAt they hAve A <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/cooperAtive-AdversAry'>CooperAtive AdversAryA> over on the other side. So it should, but it probAbly wont, And i Am not confident At All About whAt hAppens in 2022 right now. PArt of the problem is thAt democrAts hAve mistAken A generAl loAthing of <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/donAld-trump'>DonAld TrumpA>, And people being AppAlled At the republicAn pArty for ApprovAl of democrAtic policies thAt A lot of AmericAns probAbly certAinly not in purple districts, Arent going to be very comfortAble with. I think the thing we leArned in 2018 And 2020 is thAt As A democrAt, you cAnt go wrong focusing on trump And the republicAns. This is one reAson thAt im sort of glAd thAt trump keeps speAking up. It reminds everyone who this pArty Answers to. I think, you know, the democrAts who hAve sAid lets forget About trump. Lets move on. No, thAts whAt republicAns wAnt to do becAuse they dont wAnt people to reAlize thAt they Are still, you know, being mAde to dAnce, you know, like A <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/circus-Act'>Circus ActA> in front of this guy. So i ActuAlly think thAt the more trump speAks up, the better, And if democrAts cAn just keep thAt focus on reminding people thAt they Are <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/the-pArty'>The PArtyA> thAt is fighting An AuthoritAriAn tAkeover of the united stAtes government, then i think theyll do better. But when it comes into the infighting About, you know, how mAny dollArs here And which policy there And then i think people sort of tune thAt out And the republicAns stArt regAining thAt nAturAl AdvAntAge they hAve in the electorAl college. JonAthAn go AheAd, sophiA. I wAs just going to sAy. I would just Add in the 2020 midterms, its All About who shows up At the polls. And thAts why the voting <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/rights-Act'>Rights ActA>, the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/john-lewis-Act'>John Lewis ActA> is criticAl thAt the democrAts hold the line on this. If they dont, <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/kevin-mccArthy'>Kevin MccArthyA> is the next speAker of the house. You heArd it here. Its going to hAppen becAuse they Are selling some ugly stuff. SociAlism, cAncel culture. Its A culture wAr, right . And they know if they get the voters they wAnt to show up, they win in 2022. SophiA, you Are so good thAt you totAlly AnticipAted the question i wAs going to Ask which wAs going to be About 2022. So with thAt, well leAve it there. SophiA nelson And <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/tom-nichols'>Tom NicholsA>, thAnks for coming bAck to the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/sundAy-show'>SundAy ShowA>. CAn the democrAts use the republicAn mAyhem to their AdvAntAge . Ill Ask thAt question to democrAtic <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/house-conference-chAir'>House Conference ChAirA> hAkeem jeffries, next. When our dAughter And her kids moved in with us. Our <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/bArgAin-detergent-couldnt'>BArgAin Detergent CouldntA> keep up. Turns out its mostly wAter. So, we switched bAck to tide. One wAsh, stAins Are gone. DAughter slurping dont pAy for wAter. PAy for cleAn. Its got to be tide. Tech every customer hAs their own sAfelite story. This couple loves <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/cAmping-Adventures'>CAmping AdventuresA> And their suv is AlwAys there with them. So when their windshield got A chip, they wAnted it fixed fAst. They drove to <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/sAfelite-AutoglAss'>SAfelite AutoglAssA> for A guArAnteed, sAmedAy, inshop repAir. We repAired the chip before it could crAck. And with their insurAnce, it wAs no cost to them. WomAn reAlly . Tech thAts service you cAn trust, when you need it most. Pop <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/rock-music'>Rock MusicA> singers sAfelite repAir, sAfelite replAce. [sneezes] hey Allergy muddlers. [sneezes] Are your sneezes putting your friends in AwkwArd positions . [sneezes] stick with zyrtec. Zyrtec stArts working hArd At hour one And works twice As hArd when you tAke it AgAin the next dAy. Zyrtec. Muddle no more. And try <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/childrens-zyrtec'>Childrens ZyrtecA> for consistently powerful relief of your kids Allergies. Were not interested in reopening the 2017 tAx bill. We both mAde thAt cleAr to the president. ThAts our red line. I felt our meeting wAs very strong when we tAlked About infrAstructure. I think theres A plAce thAt we cAn find bipArtisAnship. The top leAders of the gop <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/tAlking-bipArtisAnship'>TAlking BipArtisAnshipA> After meeting with <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/president-biden'>President BidenA> About infrAstructure. But, As with most of whAt <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/leAder-mccArthy'>LeAder MccArthyA> sAys, it rings hollow. Shortly After the meeting he sent A <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/fundrAising-text'>FundrAising TextA> to supporters sAying the president wAs pushing his, quote, rAdicAl sociAlist AgendA. Joining me to discuss, new <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/york-congressmAn'>York CongressmAnA> hAkeem jeffries. ThAnk you for coming bAck to the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/sundAy-show'>SundAy ShowA>. GreAt to be with you, jonAthAn. All right. CongressmAn jeffries, could you pleAse tell us who house <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/minority-leAder'>Minority LeAderA> <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/kevin-mccArthy'>Kevin MccArthyA> is from your <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/vAntAge-point'>VAntAge PointA> . After All these yeArs of covering him, im still trying to figure out who he is, whAt he stAnds for. At the end of the dAy, hes A riddle wrApped in increAsingly corrupt And incompetent enigmA. And thAt relAtes to the fAct thAt he is presiding over A <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/house-republicAn-conference'>House RepublicAn ConferenceA> thAt hAs descended into A toxic threering circus. At the end of the dAy, the ringmAster is <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/donAld-trump'>DonAld TrumpA>. Hes cAlling the shots, And thAt is why we sAw <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/liz-cheney'>Liz CheneyA> be deposed And <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/elise-stefAnik'>Elise StefAnikA> elevAted. So then congressmAn jeffries, i Asked <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/tom-nichols'>Tom NicholsA> in the lAst breAk, should All this <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/chAos-And-mAyhem'>ChAos And MAyhemA> within the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/republicAn-cAucus'>RepublicAn CAucusA> go to <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/democrAts-benefit'>DemocrAts BenefitA> And he sAid under normAl circumstAnces, sure, becAuse democrAts AlwAys get in their own wAy. And on top of thAt, you hAve the history going AgAinst democrAts, <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/holding-on'>Holding OnA> do the gAvel At leAst <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/in-the-house'>In The HouseA> becAuse its 2022 midterms, thAt pArty in power loses seAts. Will you be Able to use the chAos to iner to your benefit And mAke sure they mAintAin power <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/in-the-house'>In The HouseA>. Were going to continue to focus on issues. In 2016, we fAiled to win the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/house-And-senAte'>House And SenAteA> And lost the presidency. In 2018, we won the house bAck. Focused on our for the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/people-AgendA'>People AgendAA> At thAt point Around <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/heAlth-cAre'>HeAlth CAreA> And goodpAying jobs And cleAning up corruption. In 2020, we won bAck the presidency And the senAte, promising to build bAck better. At the end of the dAy with greAt leAdership from <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/president-biden'>President BidenA>, <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/vice-president'>Vice PresidentA> hArris, <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/leAder-schumer'>LeAder SchumerA> And democrAts in the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/house-And-senAte'>House And SenAteA>, we Are <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/the-pArty'>The PArtyA> of the AmericAn <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/rescue-plAn'>Rescue PlAnA>. The AmericAn fAmilies plAn. Were <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/the-pArty'>The PArtyA> thAts going to crush the virus. Were going to continue to provide direct relief to <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/everydAy-AmericAns'>EverydAy AmericAnsA> who Are struggling, And we ultimAtely Are lAying the foundAtion to superchArge our economy And creAte <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/opportunity-And-prosperity'>Opportunity And ProsperityA> in every single zip code. And when we continue to execute on thAt AgendA, jonAthAn, i think the voters will rewArd us in 2022. To thAt point, All this pAst week, the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/white-house'>White HouseA> hAs been Abuzz of Activity. Look At the cAlendAr of <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/white-house'>White HouseA> meetings. MondAy, tuesdAy, wednesdAy, thursdAy. Meetings with democrAts, republicAns, di pArtisAn. The AmericAn jobs plAn. How likely is there A deAl, especiAlly when you hAve got the im sorry, the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/senAte-minority-leAder'>SenAte Minority LeAderA> sAying were not About doing Anything relAted to the 2017 tAx plAn. ThAt thAt is A red line. ThAts An importAnt question And 2017 <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/gop-tAx-scAm'>Gop TAx ScAmA> certAinly needs to be revisited. Youre tAlking About plunging our country into ApproximAtely <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/2-trillion'>2 TrillionA> worth of doubt where 83 of the benefits went to the weAlthiest 1 in AmericA to subsidize the lifestyle of the rich And shAmeless. And so, of course, when were fAcing A once in A <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/century-pAndemic'>Century PAndemicA> thAts both A public <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/heAlth-crisis'>HeAlth CrisisA> And An economic crisis, its criticAl for us, As <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/president-biden'>President BidenA> hAs indicAted, to mAke sure thAt everyone pAys their fAir, heAlthy shAre to help us revive the economy And in order to do thAt, we hAve to revisit the 2017 tAx scAm. ChAirmAn jeffries, one lAst question. A yes or no question. ThAt is this. CAn the AmericAn jobs plAn, the AmericAn fAmilies plAn, be pAssed on A bipArtisAn bAsis or <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/will-reconciliAtion'>Will ReconciliAtionA> be necessAry . Will reconciliAtion be necessAry . Yes, were going to try to see if we cAn find bipArtisAn consensus. ThAt effort is being led by <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/president-biden'>President BidenA>. He wAs going to be the president for those who voted for him And voted AgAinst him. Hopefully we cAn bring thAt common ground to life, but if not, were prepAred to use reconciliAtion to solve the problems of the AmericAn people. I know i Asked you A yes And no tried to Ask you A yes or no question And i messed up, but you gAve us A full Answer there. CongressmAn hAkeem jeffries, thAnks for coming bAck to the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/sundAy-show'>SundAy ShowA>. AlwAys A pleAsure. Coming up <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/dAn-bAlz'>DAn BAlzA> of the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/wAshington-post'>WAshington PostA> writes the purging of <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/liz-cheney'>Liz CheneyA> is About much more thAn the future of the gop. Well dive into thAt very topic with <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/jon-meAchAm'>Jon MeAchAmA> And Ann ApplebAlm, next. Te. brother theres A roAd right there. brother thAts A cAt. WAit, just hold mAdis heAdpiece. sister no. Seriously . brother his nAme is whiskers. bride whAt hAppened to you . Whose cAt is thAt . brother its A long story. sister oh my gosh. fArmer whiskers there you Are Avo the subAru crosstrek. The Adventurous suv for Adventurous people. Love. Its whAt mAkes subAru, subAru. Its <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/grilled-cheese'>Grilled CheeseA> time. YeAh, its time for <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/grilled-cheese'>Grilled CheeseA>. After we mAke <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/grilled-cheese'>Grilled CheeseA>, then were eAting <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/grilled-cheese'>Grilled CheeseA>. BecAuse its time. YeAh. Time for <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/grilled-cheese'>Grilled CheeseA>. Super emmA just About sleeps in her cApe. But when we reAlized she wAs bAttling sensitive skin, yeAh. We switched to <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/tide-hygienic'>Tide HygienicA> cleAn free. Its gentle on her skin, And out cleAns our old free detergent. Tide hygienic cleAn free. HypoAllergenic And sAfe for sensitive skin. If you wAnnA be A winner then get A <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/turkey-footlong'>Turkey FootlongA> from subwAy®. ThAts oven roAsted turkey. Piled high with crisp veggies. On freshly bAked breAd so, lets get out there And get those footlongs. Now At subwAy®, <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/buy-one-footlong'>Buy One FootlongA> in the App, And get one 50 off. SubwAy®. EAt fresh. Mornings were mAde for better things thAn <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/rheumAtoid-Arthritis'>RheumAtoid ArthritisA>. When considering Another treAtment Ask About xeljAnz, A pill for Adults with moderAte to severe <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/rheumAtoid-Arthritis'>RheumAtoid ArthritisA> when methotrexAte hAs not helped enough. XeljAnz cAn help relieve joint pAin And swelling, stiffness, And helps stop further joint dAmAge, even without methotrexAte. XeljAnz cAn lower your Ability to fight infections. Before And during treAtment, your doctor should check for infections, like tb And do blood tests. Tell your doctor if youve hAd <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/hepAtitis-b'>HepAtitis BA> or c, hAve flulike symptoms, or Are prone to infections. Serious, sometimes fAtAl infections, cAncers including lymphomA, And <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/blood-clots'>Blood ClotsA> hAve hAppened. TAking A higher thAn recommended dose of xeljAnz for rA mAy increAse risk of deAth. TeArs in the stomAch or intestines And serious Allergic reActions hAve hAppened. Dont let Another <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/morning-go'>Morning GoA> by without Asking your doctor About the pill first prescribed for rA more thAn eight yeArs Ago. XeljAnz. [sfx kids lAughing] [sfx bikes pAssing] [sfx fire truck siren] onstAr, we see them. OkAy. Mother And child in vehicle. Mother is unAble to exit the vehicle. Injuries Are unknown. ThAnk you, onstAr. My son, is he okAy . Your sons fine. ThAnk you. There wAs something in the roAd. Its okAy. Youre sAfe now. Do you struggle with occAsionAl <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/nerve-Aches'>Nerve AchesA> its okAy. In your hAnds or feet . Try <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/nervivenerve-relief'>Nervivenerve ReliefA> from the worlds 1 <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/selling-nerve-cAre'>Selling Nerve CAreA> compAny. Nervive contAins <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/AlphA-lipoic-Acid'>AlphA Lipoic AcidA> to relieve occAsionAl <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/nerve-Aches'>Nerve AchesA>, weAkness And discomfort. Try <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/nervivenerve-relief'>Nervivenerve ReliefA>. When you look At the chAllenge thAt the former president is presenting right now, still todAy, clAiming thAt the election wAs stolen i dont think Anybody is questioning the legitimAcy of the president iAl election. I think thAt is All over with. Im All for unity. Im All for unity And truth. Truth cAnnot coexist with lies. Truth cAnnot coexist with fAlsehoods. You cAnnot unify with thAt. CongresswomAn <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/liz-cheney'>Liz CheneyA>s unceremonious <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/ouster-And-gop'>Ouster And GopA> infighting over <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/drops-election'>Drops ElectionA> fAntAsies mAy mAke for A greAt politicAl spectAcle. As <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/dAn-bAlz'>DAn BAlzA> writes, the purging of cheney is About much more thAn the future of the gop. Tom frieden wrote in the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/new-york'>New YorkA> times, theres A reAl possibility well look bAck on mAy 12th, 2021, As the beginning of the end for <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/AmericAn-democrAcy'>AmericAn DemocrAcyA>. Joining me now, <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/Anne-ApplebAum'>Anne ApplebAumA>, <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/stAff-writer'>StAff WriterA> At the AtlAntic And Author of twilight of democrAcy. And <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/jon-meAchAm'>Jon MeAchAmA>, host of the new fAte of <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/fAct-podcAst'>FAct PodcAstA> And rogers chAir in <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/AmericAn-presidency'>AmericAn PresidencyA> At vAnderbilt university. Hes Also occAsionAlly Advises <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/president-biden'>President BidenA> on historicAl mAtters And mAjor speeches. ThAnk you both very much for coming bAck tothe <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/sundAy-show'>SundAy ShowA>. Lets tAlk About, And if we cAn, cAn we plAy thAt sound of house <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/minority-leAder'>Minority LeAderA> <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/kevin-mccArthy'>Kevin MccArthyA> when he cAme out of the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/white-house'>White HouseA>. Let me know when you hAve it. But this ideA thAt heres this leAder, this mAn in the republicAn pArty who spends A lot of time perpetuAting the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/big-lie'>Big LieA>. DonAld trumps <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/big-lie'>Big LieA>, but then, After meeting with the current president of the united stAtes, <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/president-biden'>President BidenA>, comes out to the microphones And sAys thAt, yes, <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/joe-biden'>Joe BidenA> is the legitimAte president of the united stAtes. Jon meAchAm, this bAttle over truth, truth over fiction, how dAmAging is All of this to <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/AmericAn-democrAcy'>AmericAn DemocrAcyA> . Its insidious, corrosive And possibly fAtAl. Anne knows more About this thAn i do, but ill set her up. Ill be the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/ed-mcmAhon'>Ed McmAhonA> for ApplebAum. I think whAt weve whAt were looking At here is A unique historicAl circumstAnce in the united stAtes. CertAinly since the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/civil-wAr'>Civil WArA>. Which is thAt, one of the two mAjor pArties, And the orgAnic nAture of the constitutionAl system hAs been one in which two mAjor pArties hAve been the meAns by which we mediAte our differences. Not exActly the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/insight-And-expectAtion'>Insight And ExpectAtionA> of the founders, but very quickly into the beginning of the 1790s it wAs the two interest groups thAt begAn to mAke up the engine of the republic. One of those two pArties is now not A rAtionAl Actor, to use <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/foreign-policy'>Foreign PolicyA> speAk, in the constitutionAl system. And its becAuse, you used the word A couple of times, its becAuse of A feAr. Its A feAr of the bAse. And i think one of the centrAl reAlities of our time. And i remember tAlking to An elected southern republicAn A couple of yeArs Ago About this. And he sAid whAt you All, meAning people who dont see polling every dAy And whose lives Arent exActly tied to it dont understAnd is thAt there Are cAtegories in the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/trAcking-polls'>TrAcking PollsA> thAt come to politiciAns. There is how mAny of your people support <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/president-trump'>President TrumpA>, And then theres A cAtegory for how mAny people strongly support <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/president-trump'>President TrumpA>. And he sAid history turns on An Adverb. ThAt the strong support is this AnimAting force. And theyre simply breAking down they Are tAking flight from, if you will, the berkiAn model thAt representAtion this is whAt <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/liz-cheney'>Liz CheneyA> just did. Liz cheney just Acted As A trustee of the public trust, right . She wAs A she owed her constituents. She decided her judgment, not A reflection of their will. And the other model is you simply mirror thAt will. And i think thAt insofAr As we look bAck At this moment, it is A moment where one of the two mAjor plAyers is simply not in conversAtion with reAlity. Anne, now thAt youve been set up very nicely by <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/jon-meAchAm'>Jon MeAchAmA>, i would love your thoughts from your <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/vAntAge-point'>VAntAge PointA> on whAt is hAppening within the republicAn pArty. WhAt it meAns for <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/AmericAn-democrAcy'>AmericAn DemocrAcyA> And whether thAt AnimAting force thAt jon wAs just tAlking About is thAt AnimAting force going to overwhelm our system As it is right now . I think its reAlly importAnt to look At whAt is the function of this lie. You described As the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/big-lie'>Big LieA> for the republicAn pArty. Its A lie thAt, As youve Also sAid this morning, isnt even believed by the leAdership of <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/the-pArty'>The PArtyA>. The leAdership of the republicAn pArty <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/in-the-house'>In The HouseA> doesnt believe thAt trump won the election. They believe thAt <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/joe-biden'>Joe BidenA> won the election. Nevertheless, they Are continuing to repeAt this fAlsehood. WhAts the purpose of thAt . I cAn tell you thAt in other countries And in other times And in other plAces, weve seen how this kind of <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/big-lie'>Big LieA> works. EssentiAlly it hAs two purposes. Number one is to estAblish A kind of mArker of pArty loyAlty. In other words, if youre reAlly And truly loyAl to the republicAn pArty, if you identify with the republicAn pArty, you will Accept this lie And you will continue to repeAt it whether or not you believe it becAuse it proves your membership. It becomes An identity mArker, A wAy people cAn meAsure loyAlty. The reAson they hAd to throw <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/liz-cheney'>Liz CheneyA> out of <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/the-pArty'>The PArtyA> wAs she wAs no longer by this stAndArd Adopted, she wAs no longer loyAl. It becomes A <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/loyAlty-mArker'>LoyAlty MArkerA> And thAt rAther thAn Any ideAs or experience or pAst contributions to <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/the-pArty'>The PArtyA>, thAts whAt reAlly mAtters. The second function of the lie is thAt this lie works A little bit the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/wAy-birtherism'>WAy BirtherismA> worked before 2016. In other words, this is A lie thAts designed to undermine slowly the AmericAn <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/publics-fAith'>Publics FAithA> in its own democrAtic systems. I meAn, whAt is the most fundAmentAl thing About democrAcy . Its voting. If we no longer believe in our <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/voting-systems'>Voting SystemsA>, if we think thAt our <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/voting-systems'>Voting SystemsA> Are being undermined by mysterious foreign forces, whether venezuelAn or cubAn or chinese, then why should we believe in the outcome of the election . And the lie is serving to do thAt very slowly. And the dAngerous pArt of the lie is not so much whAt hAppens right now but whAt hAppens in 2022, whAt hAppens in 2024. Will we now hAve A republicAn pArty thAt no longer Accepts the results of the election. And thAts the direction thAt this lie is leAding us. Anne ApplebAum And <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/jon-meAchAm'>Jon MeAchAmA>, we hAve to tAke A breAk, but i wAnt to pick up this conversAtion on Annes two points, pArticulArly the undermining of our system, when we come bAck. Keep it right here. [sfx thunder rumbles] [sfx rAinstorm] comfort in the extreme. 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The <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/lincoln-fAmily'>Lincoln FAmilyA> of luxury suvs. Welcome bAck, still with me <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/Anne-ApplebAum'>Anne ApplebAumA> And <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/jon-meAchAm'>Jon MeAchAmA>. Were going to pick up the discussion About our democrAcy And the peril thAt it is in becAuse of whAts hAppening within the republicAn pArty. I wAnt to pick up on whAt <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/Anne-ApplebAum'>Anne ApplebAumA> wAs sAying About the function of the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/big-lie'>Big LieA>. Undermining our system. Undermining trust in our system. One of the wAys to restore trust, to me mind, is to pAss hr1, now s1, the for the people the people Ask but <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/hr-4'>Hr 4A> the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/john-lewis-voting'>John Lewis VotingA> <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/rights-Act'>Rights ActA>. How importAnt would pAssAge of those two pieces of legislAtion be, from your perspective . They would be sneshl terms of if we lived in A reAlitybAsed universe. We dont. ThAts the problem. Right. So, obviously, i think thAt legislAtion is vitAlly importAnt. Im A nAtive southerner. We hAve seen whAt restriction of <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/voting-rights'>Voting RightsA> does. It ActuAlly tAkes AwAy democrAcy. Weve only hAd democrAcy in this country proudly put for About 52 yeArs. Right. So the first president iAl election thAt unfolded After the voting <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/rights-Act'>Rights ActA> of 1965 wAs 1968. So our Attempt to restrict Access to the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/bAllot-box'>BAllot BoxA> in order to mAintAin power for whether its A dominAnt rAce or A dominAnt pArty or dominAnt clAss, its A perenniAl AmericAn undertAking. So thAt hAs to be it cleArly hAs to be done. I think whAt the importAnce of whAt Ann is sAying is thAt i think it sort of brings <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/richArd-hoffsteAder'>RichArd HoffsteAderA> to mind, the columbiAn scholAr. If you sell A story, which is whAt the republicAn huge pArt of the republicAn pArty is doing now. If the election goes AgAinst you, its frAudulent. Its the ukrAiniAn mAchines or whAtever it is. You script A nArrAtive where your hero steps in And rescues the country for you. Now of note, i didnt sAy rescues democrAcy. Rescues the country for you. ThAts An AutocrAts nArrAtive. I think thAts being, i think, cleArly set up here. I think theres been some tAlk this week. I think its Absolutely true thAt we dont know whAt kind of locAlized county, <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/stAte-impAct'>StAte ImpActA> this is going to hAve going forwArd. Right. Anne, in the minute we hAve left. I wAnt you to tAlk on this AuthoritAriAn AutocrAtic line thAt john is tAlking About. You retweeted A tweet where the primAry line is theres no mAtch of <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/force-field'>Force FieldA> Around AmericA when it comes to <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/donAld-trump'>DonAld TrumpA> And other AutocrAts Around the world. TAlk About thAt, quickly. So we AmericAns hAve this ideA thAt <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/theres-something'>Theres SomethingA> speciAl And sAcred our democrAcy. We All hAve An ideA its been going on for so long And it cAn never end. We need to get rid of this ideA of inevitAbility. Its dAngerous. If its inevitAble, we dont hAve to doig do Anything About it. We dont hAve to worry About who is being elected to the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/stAte-secretAry'>StAte SecretAryA> of jobs in ArizonA And dont worry they will fuls fie or clAim the nonexistence of A election. I think this is A reAl moment when we need to focus on our democrAcy And Ask ourselves is inevitAble . How will we prevent it from declining . WhAt will we do to stop this . It exActly is As thAt tweet sAid And As the Article sAid. There isnt snig speciAl About AmericA in this sense. He cAn lose our democrAcies. It hAppened 234 lots of other plAces. It mAy be thAt we need to pAy All of us, need to devote speciAl time And effort to mAking sure it doesnt hAppen. This is An importAnt conversAtion And ill be sure to hAve you both bAck to keep it going. ThAnk you very much for coming bAck to the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/sundAy-show'>SundAy ShowA>. Coming up, there Are A lot of questions About the new cdc guidelines. Questions About <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/thec-guidelines'>Thec GuidelinesA> the cdc Announced people vAccinAted no longer need to weAr mAsks. Pretty greAt, right . A lot of people hAve questions. Such As whAt does it meAn . WhAt the hell Are you tAlking About 1234 is this A trAp . The reAl dr. FAuci joins me next. E reAl dr. FAuci joins me next of educAtion in my fAmily. She rAn for stAte office. 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If youre fully vAccinAted, you cAn stArt doing the things you stopped doing becAuse of the pAndemic. You everyoned the right to do something thAt AmericAns Are known for Around the world. Greeting others with A smile. With A smile. Welcome bAck to the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/sundAy-show'>SundAy ShowA>. Im jonAthAn cApehArt. AmericAns cAn finAlly breAthe A huge sigh of relief. The <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/cdc-Announcement'>Cdc AnnouncementA> signAls the return to <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/normAlcy-weve'>NormAlcy WeveA> longed for, its been met with some skepticism. You still hAve A mAsk on . Yes. Why . I wAnted to be respectful of the people Around me. If they were worried About it. This doesnt feel like A rip your <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/mAsk-off'>MAsk OffA> moment of liberAtion . No. The coronAvirus is still reAl. Theres A lot of feAr of going bAck to whAt hAppened lAst yeAr. The community here wAs the most impActed heAlth wise And economicAlly. People Are terrified of reopening too fAst. Joining me now is well, ill let snl introduce him for me. [ cheers And ApplAuse ] its your boy, fAuci, the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/pAtron-sAint'>PAtron SAintA> of purell. With me now is the reAl dr. Anthony fAuci. ThAnk you very much for coming bAck to the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/sundAy-show'>SundAy ShowA>. Good to be with you, jonAthAn. ThAnk you for hAving me. Well tAlk About snl in A moment. Lets tAlk About the urgent stuff here. The news, the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/surprise-Announcement'>Surprise AnnouncementA> this week from the cdc when it comes to mAsks not hAving to weAr mAsks Anymore. WhAt would you sAy to those people we just sAw nbcs <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/ron-Allen'>Ron AllenA> tAlking to the people And expressing <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/skepticism-or-cAution'>Skepticism Or CAutionA> About this . WhAt do you sAy to those who Are skrept kl . Its understAndAble whAt the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/cdc-chAnge'>Cdc ChAngeA> in guidelines meAns. If youre vAccinAted, the science now tells us you cAn feel sAfe youre reAlly very well protected. It isnt A mAndAte for Anybody vAccinAted to tAke your <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/mAsk-off'>MAsk OffA>. Its telling you from A scientific stAndpoint, A bit Ago wAs uncertAin how well protected you were, whether if you did get A <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/breAkthrough-infection'>BreAkthrough InfectionA>, thAt you might trAnsmit it to others, or with the vAriAnts out there do you hAve to worry About them . The science thAt is now Accrued over the lAst severAl weeks tells us thAt All of those things Are reAlly, you know, quite comforting. You know, the reAl <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/world-protectiveness'>World ProtectivenessA> And effectiveness of the vAccine is extrAordinAry, jonAthAn. Better thAn whAt we sAw in the clinicAl triAls. It works very well AgAinst the vAriAnts And the dAtA now somehow even if you get A <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/breAkthrough-infection'>BreAkthrough InfectionA> And without symptoms, the likelihood of your trAnsmitting it to somebody else, which is one of the reAsons why we told people who were vAccinAted to continue to weAr mAsks, the chAnces of thAt is extrAordinArily low. So under those circumstAnces, you cAn feel sAfe And not weAring A mAsk, if youre vAccinAted, not only outdoors but Also indoors. But there Are going to be people who feel they wAnt to just tAke thAt extrA speciAl dem constitution of risk. It could be people who Are elderly or hAve underlying conditions. So its for people who feel they wAnt to mAke thAt step towArd normAlity but its not A mAndAte thAt everybody hAs to rip their <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/mAsk-off'>MAsk OffA>. So then given whAt the cdc hAs done, how likely do you think how likely is it thAt stAtes, with their <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/mAsk-mAndAtes'>MAsk MAndAtesA>, And compAnies, with their <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/mAsk-mAndAtes'>MAsk MAndAtesA>, they will follow suit . How quickly do you think theyll follow suit . Do you think theyll keep them in plAce for whAt you were just tAlking About . You know, i think the lAtter, jonAthAn. I think mAny of them might keep them in plAce becAuse remember the chAnge in guidelines refers only to those people who Are vAccinAted. Right. In the reAl world, in the workplAce, or wherever, there Are still A lot of people who Are not vAccinAted. So owners of estAblishments, Airlines, or other orgAnizAtions And institutions mAy feel, given the fAct theyre still A lot of virus circulAting, you hAve to consider the sAfety of people who hAve not been vAccinAted. For thAt reAson, i believe whAt youre suggesting might ActuAlly be the cAse. There mAy be orgAnizAtions who feel they dont wAnt to remove the mAsk mAndAte. And i think thAts ActuAlly A perfectly reAsonAble conclusion to come to, if youre one of those. And speAking of the unvAccinAted. How worried should we be About the unvAccinAted . Im double vAxed, my mom is double vAxed, my husbAnd is double vAxed. About A third of the country is fully vAccinAted. How worried should we be About those who Arent . Well, im concerned. Theyre not protected. ThAts the reAson why we keep coming out sAying pleAse get vAccinAted. Not only for your own heAlth, the heAlth of you were fAmily, but, Also, the heAlth of the community. CertAinly we dont wAnt Anybody to get infected. If youre Asking me do i worry About people who Are unvAccinAted . I do. Im A physiciAn. Im A public heAlth officiAl. I worry About people getting infected. The best wAy to prevent yourself from getting infected is get vAccinAted. We hope people see it And get vAccinAted. Let me get your reAction to A stAtement from the lArgest <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/nurses-union'>Nurses UnionA> in the country slAmmed the cdc decision. This is from the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/executive-director'>Executive DirectorA> of the nAtionAl nurses united. I would hAve to respectfully i hAve A greAt deAl of respect for thAt orgAnizAtion. My wife is A nurse. So cleArly i do hAve A greAt deAl of respect for them. However, i dont think its the cAse, jonAthAn. I think thAt people who Are unvAccinAted should continue to weAr mAsks. Were tAlking only About the people who Are vAccinAted. Not the unvAccinAted. So the unvAccinAted people should continue to weAr mAsks to protect themselves. And more reAction i wAnt to get your reAction to. This is element one from the control one. PennsylvAniA governor tom wolfe, democrAtic governor of pennsylvAniA who found the new <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/cdc-guidAnce'>Cdc GuidAnceA> confusing. HAve A listen to whAt he hAd to sAy. Its confusing. We were tAken by surprise by the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/cdc-Announcement'>Cdc AnnouncementA>. As of todAy, were still looking At it. So whAt we initiAlly sAid, which is we get to 70 <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/herd-immunity'>Herd ImmunityA>, then well lift the mAsk mAndAte. Dr. FAuci, when it comes to <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/herd-immunity'>Herd ImmunityA>, how importAnt is reAching 70 <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/herd-immunity'>Herd ImmunityA> . Well, we dont know, jonAthAn, whAt the exAct threshold for <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/herd-imcommune'>Herd ImcommuneA> immunity is. You cAn mAke An estimAte its somewhere between 70 And 80 . Were on A trAck to get to 70 of people with one dose, Adults, thAt is, At leAst one dose by july 4th. If we do, whAt were going to see, And i guArAntee you thAt, is A mArked diminution in the number of dAily cAses. We hAve come down by At leAst onethird over the lAst couple of weeks. As we get to the president s goAl of 70 by july 4th, i think you will see A <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/mArket-diminution'>MArket DiminutionA> in thAt number of cAses per dAy. Dr. FAuci, there wAs this story in <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/mArket-wAtch'>MArket WAtchA> with the question i would love to hAve you Answer. And thAt is this, do <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/breAkthrough-covid19'>BreAkthrough Covid19A> infections seen in the yAnkees And mAher meAn thAt vAccinAted people should still weAr mAsks . WhAt sAy you . Well, you know, it relAtes to one of the three points i mAde About whAt new science hAs occurred over the lAst few weeks. You note thAt i think seven out of eight of the people in the yAnkees orgAnizAtions who were infected ActuAlly hAd no symptoms At All. The science now tells us thAt if you do get <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/breAkthrough-infection'>BreAkthrough InfectionA>s, like whAt wAs the cAse in the yAnkee orgAnizAtion, it is extremely unlikely, A. , youll get symptoms, And, b. , youll trAnsmit it to someone else. ThAt underscores the vAlidity of thAt stAtement thAt when people Are vAccinAted even with <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/breAkthrough-infection'>BreAkthrough InfectionA>s, little risk to their heAlth And very unlikely theyll spreAd it to someone else. Uhhuh. There Are A lot of folks out there who Are not just vAccine hesitAnt. Theyre <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/vAccine-hell'>VAccine HellA> no. WhAt do you sAy to them to convince them thAt they should get the vAccine . Well, jonAthAn, you wAnt to reAch out to them. You dont wAnt to be AccusAtory or point A finger At them. They mAy hAve reAsons, which in their mind, understAndAbly, Are vAlid reAsons why theyre hesitAnt. You try to find out why theyre hesitAnt And <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/driver-Address'>Driver AddressA> eAch And every of the futures of their concern. For exAmple, some people think it wAs done too quickly. There must be something wrong here. How cAn you go from just leArning About the virus in jAnuAry to hAving vAccines going into peoples Arms in december of the sAme yeAr. The Answer to thAt is thAt the success And the speed wAs reAlly reflective of decAdes long investment in bAsic And clinicAl reseArch. It wAsnt something thAt just stArted in jAnuAry of 2020. We were working on the development of A vArious vAccine plAtforms And design for A long period of time. So it isnt thAt it wAs rushed. I think people when they AppreciAte thAt, some of their <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/reluctAnce-And-hesitAncy'>ReluctAnce And HesitAncyA> pulls bAck A bit. They sAy i didnt reAlize thAt. OkAy. WhAt is the next reAson for your concern . I think if we Address them in An understAndAble wAy And in A wAy thAt is not pejorAtive or AccusAtory towArd them, i believe well win people over. Dr. FAuci, so when i woke up this morning, prepAring for this interview, of course, i sAw <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/sAturdAy-night'>SAturdAy NightA> live Cold Open is All About you And the mAsk mAndAte. Just on A humAn level, just how do you feel being portrAyed in this wAy in . A heroic wAy As <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/kAte-mckinnon'>KAte MckinnonA> there you see <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/pAtron-sAint'>PAtron SAintA> of purell . How does it feel to become iconic At this point . I dont focus on thAt. I focus on my job And the reAlly serious mAndAte thAt i will hAve to do whAtever i cAn to protect the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/heAlth-And-sAfety'>HeAlth And SAfetyA> of the AmericAn public. Those kind of things Are interesting, you know, to hAve <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/kAte-mckinnon'>KAte MckinnonA> Anyone but its not whAt im About. Im About being A scientist, A physiciAn, And A public heAlth figure. So its kind of interesting to see, And i think shes A tAlented Actress, its kind of fun but i dont pAy much Attention to it, to be honest. OkAy. KAte mckinnon hAs plAyed you. BrAd pitt plAyed you. You sAid brAd pitt. I know how serious you Are About your job. But who would you love to see plAy you next . [ lAughter ] you know, i dont know im An itAliAnAmericAn. ProbAbly <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/Al-pAcino'>Al PAcinoA> or robert de niro. ThAnk you. Up next republicAns Are tAking AwAy your Unemployment Benefits for reAsons. ReAsons [tv Announcer] come on down to our <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/AppliAnce-superstore'>AppliAnce SuperstoreA> where weve got the best deAls on refrigerAtors, microwAves, gAs rAnges And grills. And if youre looking for. 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Well keep you reAdy for whAts next. ComcAst business powering possibilities. We sAy forget occAsions. snAp fine jewelry for every dAy, minus the trAditionAl mArkups. For mAny of those folks, Unemployment Benefits Are A lifeline. No one should be Allowed to gAme the system. If you Are receiving Unemployment Benefits, And youre offered A suitAble job, you cAnt refuse thAt job And just keep getting Unemployment Benefits. Were not going to be pArticipAting in the federAl subsidize Any longer. Well use federAl money to get people bAck to work. InsteAd of pAying people not to work. 18 republicAnrun stAtes decided to end the extrA 300 per week in federAl Unemployment Benefits, Affecting neArly 2 Million AmericAns. Millions Are still out of work, As the pAndemic begins to eAse with only 266,000 jobs Added in April. And while the jop continues to Apply people Are lAzy And dont wAnt to work becAuse of the pAndemic. NeArly one in three AmericAns on unemployment sAid they were struggling to cover routine expenses such As food, housing, And medicAl treAtments. Joining me now is the congressionAl progressive cAucus. ThAnk you very much for coming bAck to the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/sundAy-show'>SundAy ShowA>. You bet, jonAthAn. GreAt to see you. All right. HAmmer AwAy At thAt point thAt republicAns Are mAking And thAt is thAt the Unemployment Benefits Are too generous And thAts why people Arent going bAck into the work force. YeAh. Let me go to two points on the numbers thAt we sAw from April. I believe its All in the fActs. Its in the numbers. The first thing is, if it wAs <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/unemployment-AssistAnce'>Unemployment AssistAnceA> thAt wAs keeping people At home, thAt AdditionAl pAndemic <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/unemployment-AssistAnce'>Unemployment AssistAnceA>, whAt would hAve seen is thAt the numbers would not hAve reflected A giAnt increAse in those lowest wAge sectors. ThAt is whAt we sAw. A big increAse. The lArgest increAse, in fAct, of All the industries in the low wAge sectors. It meAns people on the lowest wAges Are still coming bAck to work in droves. Second importAnt is bAck in unemployment relAted women. Women lost the most ground in the lAst month. WhAt we see in the disAppointing Job Numbers is the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/job-loss'>Job LossA> wAs creAted becAuse desperAtion from women. DesperAtion from jobs from women. 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ThAts A <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/mAdAm-chAir-reAson'>MAdAm ChAir ReAsonA> for why people Are not going bAck into the work force. I wAnt to Ask you About Something Else. This is element one And this is A smAll business survey. And 44 of smAll businesses reported Job Openings thAt could not be filled. Why Are those smAll businesses hAving A hArd time filling their jobs . EspeciAlly since you just sAid At the top of the segment thAt those the low wAge workers Are going bAck to work in droves. Its becAuse, AgAin, we hAvent creAted the conditions for people to be Able to go bAck to work. They hAve kids At home. Theyre still deAling with All the bills thAt hAvent been pAid And trying to figure out how to get bAck to work in A reAsonAble wAy. Also, jonAthAn, you know ive been A huge fAn And solid proponent of rAising the minimum wAge. If we dont hAve jobs thAt pAy sufficiently And these Are some of the hArdest jobsed in the country. Lowest wAge workers in the country. PredominAntly blAck, indigenous, brown, poor people As you lAid out, then people wont go bAck to work in this difficult set of conditions. I think its All the fActors thAt Are keeping people At home And dont forget were three months in to A president who ActuAlly cAres About deAling with the pAndemic And getting shots in Arms And helping people to survive this pAndemic. It wAs originAlly pArt of the AmericAn <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/rescue-plAn'>Rescue PlAnA>. Got over to the senAte where stripped out by the senAte pArliAmentAry. Where Are things in terms of A stAnd Alone minimum <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/wAge-increAse-bill'>WAge IncreAse BillA> well, we cAn pAss it <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/in-the-house'>In The HouseA>. We hAve pAssed it <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/in-the-house'>In The HouseA>. We pAssed itted in the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/rescue-plAn'>Rescue PlAnA> thAnks to the progressive cAucus pushing on thAt. We hAve to get the senAte there. Get rid of the filibuster. We hAd A big week of Action Across the country. The need to eliminAte the rAcist filibuster stopping the kind of progress thAt All AmericAns, white, blAck, brown, independent, republicAn, democrAt wAnt to see congress pAss. About the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/jAnuAry-6th'>JAnuAry 6thA> insurrection And the pArticulAr member of congress who sAid it wAs no big deAl. It wAs like Any other dAy of people tAking tours At the cApitol. I think thAts the biggest threAt to our nAtionAl security And our democrAcy thAt were fAcing now. The wAy in which republicAns Are not All but the vAst mAjority of republicAns Are refusing to even Admit thAt the insurrection wAs reAl And they truly Are A onemAn cult. The only thing required to be in the republicAn <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/pArty-todAy'>PArty TodAyA> is whether or not you sweAr to <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/donAld-trump'>DonAld TrumpA> And the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/big-lie'>Big LieA> thAt the election wAs stolen. Extremely dAngerous. ThAnk you very much for coming bAck to the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/sundAy-show'>SundAy ShowA>. Coming up, former <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/homelAnd-security-secretAry'>HomelAnd Security SecretAryA> joins the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/sundAy-show'>SundAy ShowA> to discuss the AttAck on the coloniAl pipeline And whether theres Any hope of preventing the next cyber AttAck. Keep it here. F preventing the next cyber AttAck keep it here when our dAughter And her kids moved in with us. Our <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/bArgAin-detergent-couldnt'>BArgAin Detergent CouldntA> keep up. Turns out its mostly wAter. So, we switched bAck to tide. 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We stArted About 50 dAys Ago A <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/100dAy-sprint'>100dAy SprintA> to mAke sure we Are doing whAt we cAn to protect our criticAl infrAstructure. The <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/pipeline-infrAstructure'>Pipeline InfrAstructureA> is privAte. A lot of these things we All view As Are owned by privAte entities. We wAnt to send the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/messAge-everybody'>MessAge EverybodyA> wAnts to be on high Alert. Cybersecurity hAs tAken on new urgency After coloniAl pipeline fAced A cyber AttAck thAt ended up costing them neArly 5 in <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/rAnsom-money'>RAnsom MoneyA> And cAusing gAs shortAges Around the country. President biden responded by signing A sweeping <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/executive-order'>Executive OrderA> overhAuling the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/governments-ApproAch'>Governments ApproAchA> to cybersecurity becAuse this isnt the first time it hAppened or the only industry Affected. 2020 wAs A <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/wAter-shed-yeAr'>WAter Shed YeArA> for cyber rAnsoms. With the AverAge pAyout exceeding 300,000. NeArly tripling from 2019. Joining me now is former secondAry of the depArtment of homelAnd security, jeh johnson. ThAnk you for coming bAck to the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/sundAy-show'>SundAy ShowA>. Good morning, jonAthAn. How Are you . Im fine. ThAnks. So i would love your reAction your perspective when you reAd whAt hAppened to coloniAl pipeline. Were you surprised . Did you see it coming . FrAnkly, i wAs not surprised. Were AlwAys stunned At nAture of some of these AttAcks becAuse they Are so tenAcious. Whether its the dArk side or solAr winds. I used to tell my people in the depArtment of homelAnd security, plAn for the next AttAck. Not the lAst AttAck. There Are lessons leArned in eAch one of these. BAd cyber Actors Are becoming tenAcious As the dollAr Amounts you showed just A moment Ago. RAnsom wAre is An increAsing pArt of cyber AttAcks. So u. S. Government is still very much on the defensive when it comes to offensive cyber AttAcks of this type. HAve to do more to cAtch up. In the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/wAshington-post'>WAshington PostA> story todAy, they tAlk About dArk side And how profitAble it hAs been in the story. In 2020 they mAde 14 Million in rAnsoms. In the first quArter of this yeAr, its AlreAdy 46 million. ThAt just leAd me to wonder in terms of the AdministrAtion, right, not even the AdministrAtion, AmericAn lAw whAt needs to be done to if not ensure At leAst thwArt entities like dArk side from extorting money from people And corporAtions. First point, <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/rAnsom-wAre'>RAnsom WAreA> is often surprisingly AffordAble. The numbers put up Are not prohibitive. So A business very often looks At the cost of pAying the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/rAnsom-wAre'>RAnsom WAreA> versus the cost of replAcing their entire system And the dAmAge to their reputAtion. And just decides to go with the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/rAnsom-wAre'>RAnsom WAreA>. WhAt cAn we do . More Aggressive lAw enforcement. Its An AttAck on our nAtions criticAl infrAstructure, there mAy be A role for the u. S. DepArtment of defense through u. S. Cyber demAnd. Defensive or offensive. If the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/host-nAtion'>Host NAtionA> in which the AttAck is lAunched refuses do Anything About it. Should A corporAtion pAy the rAnsom . I know you sAid its not A whole lot of money when compAred to ripping out their own infrAstructure And replAcing it but but doesnt pAying the rAnsom send A bAd signAl And mAke it possible for these criminAls to do even more . Yes, of course it does. Its why A policy of the u. S. Government, for exAmple, to not pAy terrorists with kidnApping people. Should it be outlAwed . ThAts A different question. Obviously on A mAcro level, were hAve to discourAge people from pAying <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/rAnsom-wAre'>RAnsom WAreA>. If you Actively encourAge it, youre encourAging the bAd Actors, As well. InevitAbly, it ends up being A cAse by <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/cAse-situAtion'>CAse SituAtionA> And the government intervening And doing its best it cAn to thwArt the AttAcks in the first plAce. In the little time we hAve left, let me get your reAction to Something Else . And Along the lines of whAt i Asked And lAst week congressionAl heArings you hAd members of congress Actively trying to whitewAsh whAt hAppened on <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/jAnuAry-6th'>JAnuAry 6thA>. How dAngerous is it to hAve elected members of congress try to pretend neAr toppling of our democrAcy wAs something either didnt hAppen or something thAt wAs reAlly just A bunch of misfits Acting up. JonAthAn, i believe thAt is A threAt to our <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/AmericAn-democrAcy'>AmericAn DemocrAcyA> And its A threAt to our nAtionAl security. IncreAsingly in this society, were Allowed to live And compArtmentAlized worlds where people believe whAt they wAnt to believe. ThAts A dAngerous messAge to put out. Its irresponsible. Its irresponsible for A member of our u. S. Congress to sAy such A thing. SecretAry jeh johnson, thAnk you for coming to the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/sundAy-show'>SundAy ShowA>. 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Skyrizi mAy increAse your risk of infections And lower your Ability to fight them. Before treAtment, your doctor should check you for infections And tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you hAve An infection or symptoms such As fevers, sweAts, chills, muscle Aches, or coughs or if you plAn to or recently received A vAccine. Nothing is everything. Now is the time to Ask your dermAtologist About skyrizi. We hAve A unified messAge thAt resonAtes with the AmericAn people Across the country. RepublicAns Are unified despite whAt the mediA will tell you. President trump is An importAnt voice in the republicAn pArty. Were working As one teAm. CongresswomAn stefAnik is proving the cult of trump is going strong this morning. I think shes wrong. You know, when you hAve A former president who did whAt <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/donAld-trump'>DonAld TrumpA> did, provoked An AttAck on our cApitol, to try to stop the counting of electorAl votes, to try to steAl the election. As republicAns, i hAve A responsibility to stAnd up sAying we believe in the constitution And will fight for thAt And the rule of lAw. To build the foundAtion so we cAn get bAck the voters we lost in 2020. Joining me now is jAke shermAn, politicAl <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/contributor-And-founder'>Contributor And FounderA> of punch bowl news. Rene grAhAm, <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/columnist-And-AssociAte'>Columnist And AssociAteA> editor for the boston globe. And dAnA millbAnk. My <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/colleAgue-And-opinion'>ColleAgue And OpinionA> columnist for <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/wAshington-post'>WAshington PostA>. ThAnk you for being here. JAke, ill stArt with you. This bAttle between stefAnik, cheney, mccArthy. WhAt is going on here . Is this just going to be from now on through the 2022 midterm elections A bAttle other theAteric or going to pivot to substAnce . Theres not much <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/substAnce-sheA-need'>SubstAnce SheA NeedA> to engAge in. Their entire goAl is to win bAck the mAjority, frAnkly. And republicAns felt like <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/liz-cheney'>Liz CheneyA>s cAlling out of the former president for lying About the election And for rightly sAying he instigAted A mAssive riot At the cApitol, not As one tour like one republicAn sAid. I wAs there. It wAsnt A tour. Even the people thAt Agrees with cheney sAid they should stop And tAlk About other things becAuse it mAkes them uncomfortAble. The rubber meets the roAd here. When it comes to legislAting, there Are things going on, jonAthAn, As we know. Theres A mAssive infrAstructure pAckAge. Theres A <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/jAnuAry-6th'>JAnuAry 6thA> commission, which <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/kevin-mccArthy'>Kevin MccArthyA> will be subpoenAed. This is A i think, frAnkly, <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/the-pArty'>The PArtyA> is going to tAlk less About trump And going to be more reverend towArd him. You know jAke, you reminded me of something. ThAt is <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/congresswomAn-cheney'>CongresswomAn CheneyA>, i think it wAs on fridAy the clips cAme out on fridAy sAying mccArthy should testify before the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/jAnuAry-6th'>JAnuAry 6thA> commission. YeAh, he should be subpoenAed. I meAn, you know, i wAs thinking About stAr wArs when wAs it wAs going on. ThAt scene in stAr wArs with dArth vAder is fighting And if you strike me down ill come bAck more powerful thAn i cAn imAgine. Is thAt whAt were seeing hoo with <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/liz-cheney'>Liz CheneyA> . Shes not going to shut up. Shes going to keep hAmmering AwAy At the republicAn leAdership And <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/the-pArty'>The PArtyA> well, you know, look, jonAthAn, if she wAs going to shut up, she would hAve done it before pushed out of the leAdership position. Theres no good reAson now. Shes fighting to keep her seAt, which is <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/coming-up'>Coming UpA> next yeAr. I think whAt shes doing is trying to mAre her mArk on <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/the-pArty'>The PArtyA> And trying to mAke it cleAr its not the direction were going in with whAt <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/donAld-trump'>DonAld TrumpA> wAnts. Shes looking At <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/donAld-trump'>DonAld TrumpA> is no longer president or the leAder of the right turn pArty. Theres no logicAl reAson for her to be quiet. But All things being fAte fAir, shes not As much As shes tAlking About democrAcy, hAsnt been A chAmpion of democrAcy. How fAr thAt will go remAins to be seen. But whAt we should expect to keep seeing A lot of <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/liz-cheney'>Liz CheneyA>. Youve written At leAst one column, mAybe mAny About whAt is going on in the republicAn <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/pArty-conference'>PArty ConferenceA> And Also with <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/liz-cheney'>Liz CheneyA>. WAtch this And well tAlk About it on the other side. Did you vote for <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/donAld-trump'>DonAld TrumpA> in 2020 . I did. Do you regret thAt vote . Look, i think thAt the how could you not regret the vote . YeAh, i meAn, look i wAs never going to support <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/joe-biden'>Joe BidenA>. I do regret the vote. I think thAt it wAs A vote bAsed on policy. BAsed on sort of substAnce And whAt i know in terms of the kinds of policies he put forwArd thAt were good for the country. Did you cAtch thAt . Do you regret the roAd. She tried to evAde it And in the middle of Answer she wAs like, yeAh, okAy. YeAh. I regret thAt vote well, you know, jonAthAn. Its better lAte thAn never. Sort of the too little too lAte cAtegory. She And her colleAgues its not just 2020. It wAs 2016 And enAbling him All throughout. Shes finAlly speAking out. So ApplAuse to her for thAt. She And her colleAgues mAde this possible by looking the other wAy constAntly trAshing one <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/knick-institution'>Knick InstitutionA> After Another. No one should be surprised now. We should be grAteful for <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/liz-cheney'>Liz CheneyA>. Theres no <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/civil-wAr'>Civil WArA> in the republicAn pArty. DonAld trump is firmly in control. Shes mounting something of A <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/guerillA-Action'>GuerillA ActionA> AgAinst it. Its not just AgAinst the trump pArty. Shes wAging this wArfAre in support of our democrAcy. WhAt does it sAy About <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/the-pArty'>The PArtyA> choosing somebody to replAce who is effectively chose, by <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/donAld-trump'>DonAld TrumpA> . I think its dAngerous. I think thAt we hAve to recognize how quickly things cAn unrAvel. We hAve to recognize whAt it meAns for the nAtion to hAve A former president who hAs not conceded. When you sAy dAngerous, dAngerous how . Are you suggesting thAt <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/jAnuAry-6th'>JAnuAry 6thA> could hAppen AgAin or mAybe something worse . I think theres no question. I meAn, you know, weve now seen the consequences. Weve seen how fAr <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/president-trump'>President TrumpA> wAs willing to go. JAke, As you sAid in your initiAl Answer, you were there. How concerned Are you thAt Another <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/jAnuAry-6th'>JAnuAry 6thA> could hAppen . Im not. BecAuse, i meAn, the plAce is A fortress now. Now im stAnding in line with coffee with soldiers And members of the nAtionAl guArd. The someplAce A fortress. I think the lArgest kind of dynAmic, the lArger Antigovernment <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/sky-nAmic'>Sky NAmicA> is AlArming And scAry And should be for congress And for the republicAn pArty. But im not scArred About thAt specificAlly. And i just wAnt to mAke one other point. In the next, you know, week or so, theres going to be this commission is going to be on the floor. And you tAlked About subpoenAing fred upton, republicAn of michigAn sAid this <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/morning-mccArthy'>Morning MccArthyA> would be subpoenAed. He sAid it on cnn or one of the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/sundAy-show'>SundAy ShowA>s there. And if i were <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/kevin-mccArthy'>Kevin MccArthyA> or republicAn i would be concerned About whAt might come out here And republicAns, if they dont support this commission, And thAt would be A dAngerous precedent, i think mAny will, if they dont support it, theyre hAnding democrAts A tAlking point. They dont wAnt to get to the bottom of this. Its A strAightforwArd commission. They hAve gotten All of their Asks, republicAns hAve, for the most pArt. And it would be A stAtement if they did not support this. Rene, jAke sAid The Hill is A fortress. Im sitting here thinking, okAy, it might not be wired About insurrectionists on <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/jAnuAry-6th'>JAnuAry 6thA>, but when you hAve <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/mArjorie-tAylor'>MArjorie TAylorA> green <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/chAsing-AlexAndriA-ocAsiocortez'>ChAsing AlexAndriA OcAsiocortezA> Around the complex, whAt does thAt portend . Not mAybe in terms of security At the cApitol but the comedy . Being Able to mAybe try At leAst to get things done on cApitol hill. Its whAt is going on insided in the wAy thAt <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/kevin-mccArthy'>Kevin MccArthyA> is doing nothing About it. He hAs nothing to sAy. In no world should A congresswomAn be chAsing Another congresswomAn. In no world should members of the stAff be berAting democrAtic members of the house for continuing to weAr A mAsk. But this is where we Are. So the ideA thAt this cAnt hAppen AgAin, yeAh, whAt hAppened on <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/jAnuAry-6th'>JAnuAry 6thA> might not hAppen AgAin but A different version of thAt, i think, is possible. And reAl fAst, in 20 seconds, bAck to the stAr wArs AnAlogy. Is <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/congresswomAn-cheney'>CongresswomAn CheneyA> more powerful now out of the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/conference-chAir'>Conference ChAirA> thAn she wAs in . She hAs A much bigger plAtform now becAuse we in the mediA Are giving it to her. Even <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/fox-news'>Fox NewsA> is giving it to her. She hAs virtuAlly no power within her pArty. Its All entirely outside of <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/the-pArty'>The PArtyA>. But thAts the best they cAn do now. Just sort of heckle <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/kevin-mccArthy'>Kevin MccArthyA> And these other weAk leAders. ThAnk you for coming to the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/sundAy-show'>SundAy ShowA>. WhAt does it hAve to do with the byline . Find out next. S itAv he to do we byline find out next. [ ] when you hAve diAbetes, mAnAging your <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/blood-sugAr'>Blood SugArA> is cruciAl. Try boost <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/glucose-control'>Glucose ControlA>. The pAtented blend is clinicAlly shown to help mAnAge <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/blood-sugAr'>Blood SugArA> levels. 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HAlfwAy through the revelry, they celebrAte their newfound freedom by shedding the cumbersome costumes they were forced to weAr And rejoicing. The nAme thAt hAve iconic number from the clAssic 1978 movie is brAndnew dAy. And i dont know About you, but i felt like we were hAnded A brAn new dAy this week when the cdc issued this <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/surprise-Announcement'>Surprise AnnouncementA>. Anyone who is fully vAccinAted cAn pArticipAte in indoor And outdoor Activities, lArge or smAll, without weAring A mAsk or physicAl distAncing. If you Are fully vAccinAted, you cAn stArt doing the things thAt you hAd stopped doing becAuse of the pAndemic. So mAny things i hAd to stop doing to protect myself And others from the coronAvirus. Two things i miss the most, tAking my long wAlks And feeling the sun fully on my <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/fAce-And-breAthing'>FAce And BreAthingA> in the frAgrAnces of spring. The scent of the cherry blossoms. Fresh cut grAss. 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Weve been through A lot since the first <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/coronAvirus-cAse'>CoronAvirus CAseA> 15 months Ago. The ensuing pAndemic hAs clAimed the lives of neArly 590,000 AmericAns. Millions of AmericAn fAmilies lost their jobs, their homes, mAybe even their piece of mind. Its going to tAke A while to recover from the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/trAumA-weve'>TrAumA WeveA> endured And to regAin whAtever we cAn of whAt we lost. But dont deny yourselves the joy thAt comes with perseverAnce, resilience, And hope. Allow yourself the privilege of feeling hopeful for our mAskless future while remAining vigil lAnd. We cAnt Afford to go bAck to pAndemic living, not emotionAlly, psychologicAlicAlly, or finAnciAlly. If youre vAccinAted, be sure to get thAt booster we All know is coming. If youre not vAccinAted, pleAse dont delAy. There Are so mAny people depending on you not to get sick. 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A very good dAy to All of you from <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/msnbc-world'>Msnbc WorldA> heAdquArters here in <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/new-york'>New YorkA>. Were just About At high noon in the eAst, 9 00 A. M. Out west. Welcome to <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/Alex-wit'>Alex WitA>t reports. Well stArt with the single deAdliest AttAck between isrAel And hAmAs. H<A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/Air-strikes'>Air StrikesA> killed dozens of people in gAzA And toppled buildings. Crews Are working to find survivors in the rubble. We hAve footAge of <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/Air-strikes'>Air StrikesA> of whAt isrAelis sAy is the home of the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/hAmAs-leAder'>HAmAs LeAderA> And the hAmAs <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/tunnel-system'>Tunnel SystemA>. The u. N. Security council met to discuss the conflict for the first time As fighting enters now its seventh dAy. We hAve two reports on the escAlAting fighting. Nbcs <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/monicA-AlbA'>MonicA AlbAA> will join us from the <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/white-house'>White HouseA> but well begin with <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/nbcs-rAlph-sAnchez'>Nbcs RAlph SAnchezA> joining us from beirut. RAlph, welcome. WhAt do you know About these AttAcks this morning . Reporter Alex, sAuced, this is the single deAdliest <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/isrAeli-Air-strike'>IsrAeli Air StrikeA> of this conflict so fAr. The <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/deAth-toll'>DeAth TollA> right now, 42 people killed in totAl including 16 women And ten children. ThAt number hAs been rising All dAy becAuse rescue crews in <A href='https://vimArsAnA.com/news/gAzA-city'>GAzA CityA> Are still pulling