Homeland security issued a new threat bulletin friday reaffirming the risk posed by domestic extremists. The second time since Biden Took Office that dhs issued a warning of attackers. The homeland is facing threats that have evolved fantly and become increasingly complex and volatile in 2021. These threats include those posed by domestic terrorists, individuals and groups engaged in grievancebased violence and those inspired or influenced by Foreign Terrorists and other foreign influence just the new bulletin comes as the sprawling federal investigation into the Capitol Attack continues. The fbi having charged more than 400 suspects. Among them a marine Corpse Officer allegedly one of the first to break into the capitol building. He becomes the first active Duty Service Member to be charged for the insurrection and new reporting from the Washington Post highlights how the federal probe is linked to the domestic extremist threat facing the country. From that post piece, quote, some of the information that fbi agents have found so far in their investigation highlights more than just the intense violence and danger of that day. It points to the ongoing risk of politically motivated unrest. Officials estimate about 800 people part of the human wave that stormed the capitol complex as congress was formalizing joe bidens victory. Meaning hundreds of perpetrators still not identified. Privately Law Enforcement officials acknowledge it could take years to identify and apprehend some individuals they hunt if they ever do and say theres always the possibility that some of those people knowing theyre wanted decide to lash out violently again. In the midst of this Terror Threat that republicans and democrats reached a deal to create an independent 9 11style commission to investigate the insurrection. Even now the gops Insis Tans On Whitewashing january 6 may still get in the way of an impartial investigation. House republican leader mccarthy telling nbc news, quote, thats very concerning to me in response to being told the commission is limited in scope to the inrecollection. He had pushed for the commission to investigate Political Violence in general and create a false equivalency of protests over the summer. That pushback from him comes on the heels of comments by republican lawmakers wednesday that utterly divorced from reality. One lawmaker saying the insurrection was quote not an insurrection and comparing the attack to a quote tourist visit. In response d. C. Police officer Meekal Fanone who was brutally attacked on january 6 had this to say. Im not an elected official. I dont expect anybody to give two [ bleep ] about my opinions but i will say this. You know, those are lies. And peddling that [ bleep ] is an assault on every officer that fought to defend the capitol. Its disgraceful. Thats where we begin today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. National security analyst Frank Faglusisi is here and author of the fbi way. Also Axios National reporter Jonathan Swan is here and eli stokel. Frank, i think we were together the day this first bulletin was issued. The ideology that undergirds this Extremism Threat is the same one that the republicans seem to hand a big boost to, a big affirmation to by purging liz cheney from the ranks for fighting it. What did the extremists hear this week . They hear theyre on the right track, the leaders that they idolize are perpetrating the lie and we have yet to break the connection that ral callized them to trump, to lawmakers who continue to say it was peaceful january 6. These were cop loving protesters. The election was stolen. Were still doing an audit in arizona. Well get to the truth some day. Until that connection breaks we will see people continue down the Radicalization Trail and something that just really pops out at me at what the terms of the bulletin released that you just read is that investigators as they look at the investigation of the insurrection and individuals they find evidence that this radicalization will continue and the threat of violence will continue. What are the kind of things they find . Theyre finding evidence that trump is still our president. Right . Communications. Belief systems. Ideologies. Trump is still the president. The election was stolen. These Congress Members are with us. Thats how the radicalization stays in place. Until that big lie is exposed, until the gop lawmakers and trump renounce this which is unlikely to happen, we are in for an Indigenous Group of insur jepts for the foreseeable future. I want you to invert that. The lady that replaced liz cheney pledged allegiance not to the country but to donald trump. We are going in the opposite direction. What does that mission look like for Law Enforcement . Your last couple of words in the question are critical. For Law Enforcement. Heres what ive been saying to everyone that will listen. This antiradicalization, Counter Domestic Extremism project is a whole of society initiative. Law enforcement cannot do this alone. I hear people saying lets give more bodies to the fbi, more money to dhs. Fantastic. But educators at the Middle School level have to get involved in Teaching Civ Eks and how to deal with media fabrications. Clergy to get real about what their theology means in real life in terms of applications against violence and extremism and lies. Social media. Right . The big tech platforms. We have to address and regulate that. This is not just a Law Enforcement problem if we ever get the hands around it. Jonathan swan, there was a lot that built up. You know better than i do. Between Kevin Mccarthy and liz cheney. This is something she said a little bit about him and a subpoena and the 9 11 commission or the 1 6 commission. Should Kevin Mccarthy be willing to testify before that commission . After all he is a few person that we know of that was talking to donald trump while the attack was taking place. He absolutely should and i wouldnt be surprised if he were subpoenaed. He very clearly and said publicly he has information about the president s State Of Mind that day. The elements of that commission are exactly as they should be. Im very glad they rejected the suggestions to dilute the commission. It is important to be focused on january 6 and the events leading up to it. You welcome a subpoena for mccarthy to testify . I would anticipate and hope that he doesnt require a subpoena but i wouldnt be surprised if he were subpoenaed. Shes going further than welcoming a subpoena saying before the commission that is yet to be formed gets to having a subpoena issued he should offer himself up. Just talk about liz cheney sort of making this security judgment, making a judgment that the extremism she was ahead of the warning today but making clear that mccarthy on the line and shouldnt have to be subpoenaed to share what he knows about what donald trump knew and how the insurrection came to be. Its sort of extraordinary watching that clip and contemplating that a week ago, a few days ago that she served alongside him in leadership. This is somebody, the leader, that she had contempt for. Believes has submerged his principles beneath donald trump. This is what she believes and not going to stop talking about it. The members of the conference want her to stop talking about it and she simply wont. Whats really important for your viewers to understand is the word bipartisan will be thrown around with this deal that was done today. In a technical sense i guess it is because a republican was involved but it is not bipartisan in a meaningful sense. It was smart of pelosi to target somebody whos in no way representative of the Rank And File and who in fact voted to impeach donald trump. He did a deal with the democrats and it was done without leadership, without mccarthy at the table. I would not be surprised if this bill to form the january 6 commission i think it will pass the house. No question. I wouldnt be surprised if a majority of republicans vote against it. And then what . Today the department of Homeland Security created under my old boss george w. Bush while the Tower Smoldered issued a warning about the idesology of the insurrection that two House Republican members this week said things i wont repeat again. Pull the thread for me. Do they not care . Do they not see it . Do they not believe Terror Warnings . And what for the republicans, Jonathan Swan . What i hear time and again when i talk to them is a mixture of things. Either it is they basically agree with liz cheney, her position, but too afraid to say it publicly. This is the sort of plague upon the gop at the moment. Or, they get angry because they feel like, well, what about the riots in the summer . What about the theyll use as you said these other examples of Political Violence as false equivalences and use that as a divergent. Mostly members want to stop talking about it and putt aside whats been probably the most shameful episode in Republican Party in the modern history. People need to remember, for all the talk of republicans in disarray theyre probably going to win back the house next year if historys any guide and theyre in a very good position because the house and the senate are weighted so far towards them in the electoral college. So they sort of see this political nirvana and trying to submerge and suppress an open and Public Inquiry into this shameful, grotesque episode. Eli, jonathan is smarter about all things politics than me but there are some cases where when the countrys in crisis that history doesnt happen. One of them is two years after the Terrorist Attack of 9 11 where an incumbent president s party holds on to seats or gains them but lots of known unknowns as we look at the future. I wonder, eli, if you can talk about what this means for the country. To have one of the two parties purging its member against the lie that undergirds a domestic Terror Threat and to have as jonathan just explained through his reporting a commission that really isnt a commission at all in the sense of both parties being interested in investigating the events of 1 6. Thats a lot to untangle but you are right. This is a country that is getting deeper into a political sectarianism. Its beyond negative partisanship and thats what enables the cognitive disso nance with republicans telling you what happened on 1 6 didnt happen and not so bad and normal. They speak to supporters, the base, telling them what they want to be true and to believe. When you have a country that is that divided and cant agree on basic fundamental truths and facts, even things that happened in the light of day, you have a very difficult time given the government structure getting anything done and you are seeing that, the Uphill Battle for this administration to get the Republican Party to negotiate on anything and almost taken for granted that republicans are not going to be able to come to the table to negotiate with this administration and democrats on policy because of where the base is taking them. They are still, republican lawmakers in washington still fear donald trump. They feared for their lives on 1 6 but snapped back to fearing for the job the next day and seeing that now and theres not a sense of national purpose. To your point inside the white house President Biden and the advisers do believe that their only chance to sort of beat history and to somehow maintain democratic majorities next fall is to keep President Biden popular, to keep talking over the Republican Party and to keep reaching sort of mainstream American Voters who might be might include self identified republicans not part of that trump base and to talk common sense solutions, pragmatism to them and if the Republican Party is a sideshow and theyre consumed by the Big Lie The White House feels like if they kptd get things done they make an argument that the grownups are in charge and keep them in charge but it is difficult as a country when everyone is in the informational silos and cant really reach people, cant penetrate the people who are getting the news from Tucker Carlson at 8 00 and logging on to the websites and buying into the Conspiracy Theories of 1 6. And that makes having a cohesive democracy very difficult. Its a good point. I know you just sort of tucked in there. Nothing less than the prospects of our democracy surviving are on the line. Frank, i want to come back to deradicalization. Theres a mad proud boy out there and hes mad because donald trump doesnt have his back. He did what donald trump told him to do. He said stand back and stand by. Heres what he texted today. This is proud boy leader ethan. After realizing hes going to jail. It was revealed in a filing from prosecutors. I followed this guy for four eyes and given everything and lost it all. Yes, he woke us up. But he led us to believe some great justice was upon us. And it never happened. Now i have got some good friends and myself facing jail time because we followed this guys lead and never questioned it. I have hundreds of republicans to introduce this guy to. Does he help with deradicalization . This tweet thats been revealed from a proud boy needs to become billboards and ads everywhere including on fox news programming. Because when you look at deradicalization thats successful theres a variety of Come Poe Innocents but one is a light bulb moment when they realize theyve been played and the more that happens and people articulate that the less likely people are to stick with this radical journey that theyre on. When you talk to, for example, skin heads, White Supremacists that come out of that movement, theres a light bulb moment when they realize usually through a personal relationship or observation, this is not working for me, im duped an enthen to belong to the other side. Those people have something to offer and being nicer to me than my own group. That works. We have got to figure out how to put that on steroids. Speaking of being duped, there were more conservative people that ran against liz cheneys replacement and lost. What does that say to the conservatives in congress . Has nothing to do with policy. The idea that this was a debate about policy, you know, what should our regulatory agenda be . How high should the taxes be . Of course it wasnt. Anyone to suggest that should just talk to donald trump. He makes no bones about it. He supports people who are loyal to him and in fact is happy to say that out loud. Doesnt bother him whatsoever. Roy is far more conservative than stefanik. Not close. This is nothing to do with policy. Eli, on that note, wrap the week where we saw gossart and clyde trying to rewrite the hearing. Liz cheney ousted and today a fresh warning, the last from january to the end of april. This is a brand new one here on may 14th that the gravest threat is extremism manifesting itself into violence. Yeah. It is really scary and this administration enacted a task force to study domestic violent extremism in the first week of the administration. Havent ahead the finings but seeing that the government is monitoring this very closely and it is unnerving to a lot of americans but so much of the information that the country is getting is filtered through political channels. The people that are watching this show probably take that threat seriously and probably other people looking at the government and dont trust the government because theyre wrapped up in the Conspiracy Theories. To the point about the two different informational silos and the two different countries. To watch that video of officer Fanone Beaten and to see people in the crowd that showed up at the capitol with a Blue Lives Matter flag and to see that flag of respect for Law Enforcement waving as Police Officers are being beaten nearly to death, just tells you there are people that lost the plot and i think to franks point bringing people back out of those nether worlds of the internet and getting out of the political sectarianism and making them things clearly is difficult to do but thats really important. I think given for the country Going Forward and obviously i think the fact that they havent done that that this continues to be a problem and why you see the warnings and the government so concerned about this metastasizing further and seeing more events like january 1. Perfectly put. An unbelievable State Of Affairs and state of the country. No better people to talk to about it. Thank you so much for starting us off this hour. This afternoon matt gaetzs wing man spilling the beans as part of the guilty plea. Well have the reporter that first broke the news if they find the associate credible greenes harassment in the halls of the u. S. Capitol and the intersection with the dark obsession with congresswoman ocasiocortez. Is the gop going to regret enabling the menace within the ranks . How lower rates of vaccinated americans in red states could complicate the new guidelines allowing vaccinated americans to shed the masks. All those stories and more after a quick break. Its Grilled Cheese time. Yeah, its time for Grilled Cheese. After we make Grilled Cheese, then were eating Grilled Cheese. Because its time. Yeah. Time for Grilled Cheese. Hooh. That spin class was brutal. Well you can try using the buicks massaging seat. Oohh yeah, thats nice. Can i use apple carplay to put some music on . Sure, its wireless. Pick something we all like. Ok. Hold on. 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Joel greenberg a former Tax Collector and a good friend of congressman gaetz will plead guilty to 6 of 33 charges against him including Sex Trafficking of a minor and will cooperate with the government signaling that he could be a very important witness against matt gaetz. If prosecutors find he had sex with the same 17yearold girl greenberg is accused of trafficking. The New York Times reports that the documents did not name matt gaetz by name but quote mr. Greenberg admitted that they paid a 17yearold gill for sex and provided her with drugs. He admitted that he quote introduced the minor to other adult men that engaged in commercial sex acts with her. According to the documents and that he was sometimes present. Prosecutors revealed in the documents that they have evidence they say corroborates the admissions including a series of communications and transactions mr. Greenberg had with the girl and a list of dates of the encounters why the inclusion of that material appeared design to bolster the credibility of mr. Greenberg as a witness whose truthfulness would be challenged. On top of that politico reports that federal investigators are talking with gaetzs former girlfriend and discussing an immunity arrangement. Gaetz denied all allegations. Lets bring into the Conversation Washington correspondent for the Washington Post Michael Schmidt and both msnbc contributors. Mike, you previously reported that mr. Greenberg is talking to the feds since december. Has he spent that time establishing his own credibility . Do they right now view him as credible. I dont think the government would enter into such a Plea Agreement with a defendant like this if they didnt think he was credible. The interesting thing about the document that came out today, so this was a greenberg admitting to the crime. It is an 86page document which is very long for a Plea Agreement because theres so many crimes that he committed and so much to admit to. But what stood out to me about the document is not only ofly the allegations and more than allegations and government putting forward facts of sleeping with the minor but the same time the government put in there a fair amount of detailed information that backs up greenbergs claims. There are different dates they lay out that greenberg was with this 17yearold girl, different transactions. They are relying on documentation to bolster greenberg because if they indict matt gaetz or anyone else it is easy to attack greenbergs credibility. He is facing a minimum of 12 years in prison. For him to have any type of reduction on that, to have a shot at that, he has to help the government with other prosecutions and the government has leverage on him and if her to be used as a Trial A Deaf Attorney would say, mr. Greenberg, why are you saying these things . He is a potentially a difficult witness to have although he has a wealth of knowledge. Mike, the allegation of Sex Trafficking with a child is really pretty lewd as its detailed. They both had allegedly sex with the same child. Matt gaetz continues to say i never paid for sex. What is the gaetz position on what mr. Greenberg has testified to . Gaetz just minutes ago blasted out a statement about this and the first line of it basically says that matt gaetz is not referenced in the documents and doesnt appear to be referenced in these documents. This is true and then say that matt gaetz has not had sex ever with a minor or paid for sex or such. This is the position that he has maintained throughout this. Now that may be true. The first part of it is true that gaetz is not referenced in the documents but he is under investigation. Greenberg has talked to the feds about what he knows about gaetz and he said in the documents today he witnessed other men sleeping with the 17yearold girl and there is an enormous amount of stuff in the documents today that looks to back up greenbergs story. His venmo charges. His amex charges from the job using the credit card to pay for sex with women. There is a fair amount of evidence in this 80plus page document that any Defense Attorney if you were working with matt gaetz to probably be pretty concerned about. Jake sherman, i dont have the right question to come out of my mouth to ask you about venmo for underage sex but what is the sort of feeling up there act where Matt Gaetz Stands in terms of criminal exposure . He is sitting atop the crazy coalition. He is on tour with Marjorie Taylor greene when he is not harassing congresswoman alexandria ocasiocortez. Nobody likes matt gaetz. Very few members have any interest in being friends with him or being aligned with him or being allied with him. He is unpopular. He would say this is a d. C. Swamp game and all that stuff. Fine. There could be based on the great reporting of mike could be a decision in front of mccarthy. Steve scalise and stefanik and should gaetz be indicted . If he is down the road they will have to push him out and he is republicans are trying to put a string of just down right bizarre and damaging and pick your adjective behavior them now and now this Story Rearing the head once again and matt gaetz sits on the Judiciary Committee that oversees the Justice Department. How long will that be politically tenable for him . I defer to mike on quickly how Anything Else moves given greenbergs plea deal. I dont know how long it would be politically tenable to keep him in that position or frankly in congress overall. You want to address that, the timing or pace of your understanding of this investigation . Yeah. We really dont know. It would seem to make sense that if you were going to move against gaetz you want to lock up as many cooperators as possible and establish the facts. You see that happening today with these documents and whats being laid out there. We must remember that greenberg is the only person whethers been publicly charged in this case and the conduct of many others is being examined. Would the government potentially take the route of indicting others that are in this circle in the hopes of building up towards gaetz for other witnesses to do that . Do they want to go up the ladder in a white collar organized crime style prosecution . That would take a fair amount of time to sort of do this with other defendants and indict them to try to get them to flip to move forward but thats where the government can have power with cooperators. Greenberg is the only known person to be indicted and to have cooperated but there are others, folks in republican circles in Florida Politics looked at in this. Just on the sort of note that we dont know what we dont know, jake, lets ask you about this reporting in lit coe. Two friends of gaetzs exgirlfriend not the 17yearold say that she is in talks to be a Witness For The Prosecution and wants an immunity deal. Another source familiar with the investigation told politico that the alleged sex Trafficking Victim was quote 100 talking to prosecutors about gaetz but her level of cooperation or the information to give is not clear. Everyone spoke anonymously. What is the sense of sort of how many people knew or were in or aware of gaetzs conduct . Is there a sense that people around him are closing in . If you read the bilines in that story and being a proud former politico they are two floridabased reporters so they know the circles very well so i imagine the reporting is extraordinary tight. Another point here. The best thing for any member of congress to do under information is to stay a member of congress as long as they can and potentially if they if it comes to that use that chip in bargaining for some sort of either deal or leniency or whatever. I dont anticipate no matter how close the circle closes on gaetz should it close at all that gaetz will stick around because hes a Prideful Person and wouldnt step down in face of what he thinks is a corrupt government but also just because prosecutors and mike can speak more to this like when members of congress get a resignation for a deal theoretically. We have seen that happen in the past before and i imagine that gaetz wont leave anywhere and go anywhere unless forced to or unless he does so on his own volition in an agreement. An alleged Sex Trafficker in the gop ranks is not a lead story these days anyway. Thank you for joining us and sharing your reporting with us. Jake is sticking around. Looking like a pattern. Greene continuing to harass colleagues on the hill and learning of an incident there before she was elected and there with an accused capitol hill rioters. Imagine that. Where is the gop leadership on this . You got it silent. Michael find their stories. Gigi at ancestry. [sizzling] i may not be able to tell time, but i know what time it is. [whispering] its Grilled Cheese oclock. Im so glad youre ok, sgt. Houston. This is sam with usaa. Do you see the tow truck . Yes, thank you, that was fast. Sgt. Houston never expected this to happen. Or that her grandpas dog tags would be left behind. But that one call got her a tow and rental. Paid her claim. And we even pulled a few strings. Making it easy to make things right thats what were made for. Usaa. What youre made of, were made for. Get a quote today. Is your family ready for an emergency . You can prepare by mapping out two ways to escape your home, creating a supply kit, and including your whole family in practice drills. For help creating an emergency plan, visit safetyactioncenter. Pge. Com a little preparation will make you and your family safer in an emergency. A weeks worth of food and water, radio, flashlight, batteries and First Aid Kit are a good start to learn more, visit safetyactioncenter. Pge. Com this week on capitol hill, Conspiracy Peddling extremists within the Republican Party, in the form yet again of Marjorie Taylor greene whose pattern of burlying and bizarre conduct is clearer. Reporting in the Washington Post confirmed by nbc news about the freshman congresswoman confronting democratic congresswoman alexandria ocasiocortez on wednesday outside the House Chamber turned out to be the latest in a targeted obsession of greenes who had her sights set on being destructive before taking office and since deleted video from 2019 reported by cnn shows greene harassing ocasiocortezs office through a mailbox slot and cnn reports that a close ally was actually with her at the time of that stop. Today ocasiocortez responding to the intimidation and Quote Fixation on her. I mean, this is a woman thats deeply unwell and clearly needs some help. Her kind of fixation has lasted for several years now. You know, its at this point i think the depth of that unwellness has raised concerns for other members, as well. Joining our conversation Jackie Alamini and witnessed that wednesday incident between greene and congresswoman ocasiocortez and jake is with us. Jackie, you go first. Yeah. Despite Marjorie Taylor greenes claims otherwise she was shouting down and chasing alexandria ocasiocortez. It is behavior i think any other person would ask for a Restraining Order from. I had said last night that i had never seen someone behave like this in a workplace. Let alone a member of congress. It was deeply unprofessional. And felt unhinged and i was actually in such shock that i didnt have the presence of mind to take out my phone and record the interaction but i want to add that this is behavior that we have seen regularly at trump rallies and this is Marjorie Taylor greene bringing that into the halls of congress. We saw Trump Officials grab protesters by the collars, scream at them ux threaten them. We have seen it in four years since 2015 at trump rallies and a continuation of this and now gop leadership enable Taylor Greene because it at this point is a pattern of behavior. Jackie, if i went to the capitol and was a tourist and acted like that what would the Capitol Police do to me . You should be removed. In the workplace you would be fired and i think any supervisor would be accused of malpractice to allow an employee to act like that. Afterwards we went up to Taylor Greene and asked her what was wrong. Up close she was shaking and trembling so worked up over her chastising and accosting of ocasiocortez who really just calmly walked away. Jake, is there Security Situation that is being unaddressed up there by Capitol Police . Is congresswoman alexandria ocasiocortez safe . So its a complicated question. It is not complicated but a difficult question. Everything jackie said is smart and exactly right. I would one thing. Lets just talk about what Marjorie Taylor greene is saying to aoc which is she wants a debate over the green new deal. Just pause on that for a second. It is not up for a vote. It is not in the legislative mix of things. We dont see like debates between two members of congress not on the floor about a bill thats being considered so what she is asking for is so bizarre and unhinged and detached from reality that if you take a step back and its difficult, too, caught in this mix here, but she is asking for something that doesnt even make any sense. I understand that theres an exchange of ideas on capitol hill. Been up here a long time but what she is asking for doesnt make sense. An imagined debate in which Marjorie Taylor greene taking the side of her side and aoc debating for socialism. It doesnt make sense. Number two, yeah, there are people, niccole, answering your security question. I think corey bush who earlier this year had an office moved because aoc, we reported that they were Aoc Screaming At Bush and pelosi had her Taylor Greene was screaming at yeah. Sorry, sorry, sorry. I appreciate the correction. One more thing. Aoc has private security going around the country. This is somebody because she was demonized by donald trump so much, i would imagine has a significant number of threats. Nancy pelosi and the Capitol Police could give her security from the capitol. They havent done so yet. I have asked if there will be a Restraining Order against greene. The beshaver so bizarre. I have to imagine it is not the end of this story. And what jackie witnessed, what you have been covering isnt the beginning of it. Let me show the viewers and watch together the video of greenes first visit to congresswoman alexandria ocasiocortezs office. Lets watch. You want to talk crazy ocacio. You whisper. This is confession. This is confession right there. Alexandria . I pay your salary. For the taxes that you collect from me through the irs. Because im a tax paying citizen of the United States. Im a woman. I am a female business owner. And im proud to be an american woman. And i do not support your socialist policies and murderous boergs policies. If you want to be a big girl get rid of the diaper and be table to talk to the american citizens instead of using a flap. We now pay her salary, too. The congresswoman alexandria ocasiocortez talked about unwellness. Are there questions about Marjorie Taylor greenes Mental Health . I mean, theres questions about her, concerns about her. I have spoken to a number of republicans today suggesting saying what should we do about this . They cant throw her out of congress. They can. Thats not done very often in congress. Shes clearly impervious or doesnt listen or not interested in advice. Not somebody whos going to take the cues of leadership. Thrown off the committees and all she can do is go to the capitol and vote. No committee assignments. I just hope we dont ends here on a day when this story turns darker. Im grateful for both of your reporting and knowledge of everyone involved. Thank you so much. Stay safe. After the break, with Mask Restrictions ending in states across the country how protect vaccine ineligible kids around antivaxxers who also refuse to wear a mask. With a companion that powers a digital world, traded with a touch. The gold standard, so to speak ; i have an idea for a trade. Oh yeah, you going to place it . Not until im sure. Why dont you call Td Ameritrade for a Strategy Gut Check . Whats that . You run it by an expert, you talk about the risk and potential profit and loss. Couldve used that before i hired my interior decorator. Voila maybe a couple Throw Pillows would help. Get a Strategy Gut Check from our trade desk. Finding new routes to reach your customers, and new ways for them to reach you. Is what business is all about. Its what the United States Postal Service has always been about. So as your business changes, were changing with it. With ecommerce that runs at the speed of now. Next day and twoday shipping nationwide. Same day shipping across town. 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You can pick the best plan for each employee and only pay for the features they need. States across the country reacting to the new guidance yesterday permitting americans to shed their masks in virtually all situations. Here is the hitch, though. If and only if theyre fully vaccinated. The New York Times reporting, quote, at least seven states led by democrats began to lift Mask Mandates. But the times adds most of the state officials who responded to the shift are democrats. Half of the countrys governors, most of them republicans, had already lifted Mask Mandates in some form. Which brings us back to the caveat we mentioned at the beginning. The easing of Mask Restrictions is only safe if and only if youre fully vaccinated. And in 31 states, fewer than 50 are even partially vaccinated, according to the latest data from the cdc. Especially true in southeastern states where fewer than four in ten have received even one dose of the vaccine. There was remarkable progress in President Bidens vaccine rollout, but its giving way to questions and concerns including these laid out in an oped by leana wen in todays with respect to Washington Post. You can no longer count on the cdc rules to keep you safe. What if you dont have childcare . Your kids didnt choose to remain unvaccinated. The shots arent available for them. Surely its not fair to put them at risk. Lets bring into the conversation dr. Ashish jha. First, for the countrys dark days and dips, this was a good day yesterday. How do you feel about it . I feel great about it, nicolle, thank you for having me back. Look, it was a momentous day because basically what we said if youre fully vaccinated, life pretty much returns back to normal. Not 100 but very close. There are a lot of challenges here and the pandemic isnt over and we still have a lot of infections in america so we dont get to kind of wrap things up and go home but we should not underestimate how good a day yesterday was. I have this sense, and maybe its just colored by my time at the white house, that what President Biden is doing is treating us like grownups, sort of trusting us to have some role in caring for our households and our communities and our kids School District and not take off the mask unless were vaccinated. Do you have his faith . I do. And i thought the cdc made the right call yesterday. I think people are confused about what the cdc said. Cdc did not say lift all indoor Mask Mandates now. They said if youre fully vaccinated, it is safe. They were following the science, thats where the data is right now. They get beaten up for being too cautious and now theyre getting beaten up for not being cautious enough. I dont think we should be lifting all indoor Mask Mandates yet. We should let people who arent vaccinated yet get fully vaccinated over the next few weeks, watch infections go down, and then lift indoor Mask Mandates. But the cdc is, as you say, letting people act like adults and make their own decisions. They seem to think this is important as an incentive to vaccinations. The antivaxxers will do what they want to do, but is this an incentive to those who might get a vaccine, or does it let everyone slough it off because everyone around me is safe . No, its an incentive. If youre unvaccinated, you go into indoor spaces, and you choose not to wear a mask, which is not a good choice, youll be at risk. So i hope that that really does incentivize people. A lot of people are on the fence, theyre not vaccine resistant or hesitant, they just havent gotten around to it, theyre not 100 sure they wanted to do this. This helps people jump off that fence and get vaccinated. Keep following it and keep talking to you about it. Thanks very much, dr. Ashish jha. Dont go anywhere, were just getting started. This is our block. Our place. Our people. Watch the curb. Not having a ride to get the vaccine. Cant be the reason you dont get it. You wanna help . Donate a ride today. We started with computers. We didnt stop at computers. We didnt stop at storage or cloud. We kept going. Working with our customers to enable the kind of technology that can guide an astronaut back to safety. And help make a hospital come to you, instead of you going to it. So when it comes to your business, you know well stop at nothing. So when it comes to your business, you know well stop at nothing. Hey google, turn up the heat. New projects means new project managers. You need to hire. I need indeed. Indeed you do. The moment you sponsor a job on indeed you get a short list of quality candidates from our resume database. Claim your Seventy Five Dollar credit, when you post your first job at indeed. Com home. Emergency planning for kids. We cant predict when an emergency will happen. So thats why its important to make a plan with your parents. Here are a few tips to stay safe. Know how to get in touch with your family. Write down Phone Numbers for your parents, siblings and neighbors. Pick a place to meet your family if you are not together and cant go home. Remind your parents to pack an emergency supply kit. Making a plan might feel like homework, but it will help you and your family stay safe during an emergency. Were working with the State Legislators to make sure they have all the information they need to draft the bills. In some cases we actually draft them for them or we have a sentinel on our behalf give them the Model Legislation so it has that grassroots, you know, from the bottom up type of vibe. And we are going to take the fierce fire that is in every single one of our bellies to right the wrongs of november, right the wrongs of mistreatment of these men and move it into other states. Hi, again, everyone, its 5 00 in new york. That was jessica anderson, executive director for Heritage Action for america, the Sister Organization of conservative think tank the heritage foundation. That footage was shared with mother jones and it shows Heritage Action actually bragging to its donors on camera, in a presentation last month, about how they are creating the Voter Suppression laws were now seeing enacted by republican legislatures all across the country. As of right now, 11 states have passed restrictive voting laws and dozens more have measures under consideration. Mother jones goes on to explain Heritage Actions concerted effort this way. Quote, its no coincidence that so many gopcontrolled states are rushing to pass similar pieces of legislation in such a short period of time. Republican legislators claim theyre tightening up Election Procedures to address unfounded concerns about fraud in the 2020 election. But whats really behind this effort is a group of Conservative Washington insiders who have been pushing these same kinds of Voting Restrictions for decades with the explicit aim of Helping Republicans win elections. The difference now is that trumps baseless claims about 2020 have given them the ammunition to get the bills passed. And the Conservative Movement Led by heritage is making an unprecedented investment to get them over the finish line. Heritage action is a Dark Money Group which means it doesnt disclose its donors. We do know the Koch Brothers are among them. Anderson responded to mother jones with a statement. She said, quote, were proud of our work at the National Level and in states across this country to promote common sense reforms that make it easier to vote and harder to cheat. Weve been transparent about our plans and public with our Policy Recommendations and we wont be intimidated bit lefts Smear Campaign and cancel culture. During her presentation, though, anderson spoke about guarding against legal challenges and mentioned someone who will be familiar to all of you. Here she is describing heritages operation in georgia. And we provided testimony, expert witnesses, analysis, and actually had to draft these bills so they were legally tight, so mark elias, if you know that name from the progressive left, hes like their legal pitbull, he goes after all of this with lawsuits, so that mark elias cant find any holes in the legislation. Mark elias sued georgia over its law in march and has mounted lawsuits against other states as well. Elias told mother jones, quote, The Georgia Law violates both the invite Voting Rights a the u. S. Constitution. Heritage action claiming this is legally tight is like hearing from the titanic shipbuilders how much confidence they had in the ships voyage. This law will be struck down in court. In a brandnew piece from Democracy Docket elias lays out the danger of the gops antidemocratic efforts. Quote, the transformation of the big lie from a political ideology to a basis for state action is a critical one for society, especially a democracy, because once it infects our laws and official policies, it creates real harm to the public. A law that calls an arsonist a firefighter doesnt just result in confusion. It threatens public safety. The truth is that we are almost certainly closer to the beginning than the end of the damage that the big lie will wreak. We begin this hour with the author that have piece, aforementioned legal pitbull in the Democratic Party in the fight against suppression of Voting Rights. Mark elias, were so happy to talk to you, we know how busy you are, thank you for spending some time with me today. Thanks for having me back, im happy to be here. I said on this show once, from my time in the Republican Party, i was sure someone had written these laws and was pumping them out. Is it sort of like a smoking gun to see that video and see how operationalized it is, or is this something youve known all along . So weve suspected this all along, but this is the smoking gun. We have seen the evidence of the gun, we saw the shootings, but now we know that there is in fact out of washington, d. C. A wellfunded, conservative effort to spread the big lie from a cultural and political phenomenon into the laws of state after state after state. Marc, what do you make of liz cheney breaking with her leadership ranks, they actually broke with her, over the big lie . Joy reid made the point that she believes so much in democracy, she championed efforts to export it overseas. Is she someone you would like to see involved in the fight to preserve our democracy here in the specific case of Voting Rights . Absolutely. Absolutely. Look, liz cheney deserves a lot of credit. Whatever else people may disagree with her on, at a time had our nation was in peril, she stood up and she told the truth. And she has risked consequences to her career for telling the truth. And, you know, i tweeted about this and talked about this back on january 4 and january 5. She issued one of the most thorough statements about the litigation in the postelection period and how the lie that donald trump was spreading and that so many of her colleagues were going to adopt on january 6, she laid that out in really, really clear detail. So shes been consistent on this and she deserves credit for that and i hope she takes the next step, though, and now stands up also to the Voter Suppression efforts that were seeing that are the result of that big lie. The insurrection is obviously a horror and a stain on our country, and the Voter Suppression laws stand to impact millions and millions and millions of americans. I wonder if you feel like theyre just racing through. I mean, there was the boycott after the law passed in georgia, we had beto orourke on, i know theyre fighting the law in texas. But it feels like with this Cookie Cutter Policy Process that now we know emanating from washington, these laws are just racing through State Legislatures. Is that a fair analysis . It is. Look, i wrote in the piece that you quoted, you can be a free trade or a Fair Trade Republican and still have a home in the Republican Party. You can be in favor or against more Government Regulation and still be in the Republican Party. You can even, i think, be a protaxincrease republican today. The only thing you cant be is in favor of Voting Rights and against the big lie. So when you have a party that is united by that one policy, that the election was stolen and we can therefore restrict Voting Rights, it is no surprise were seeing in state after state these bad laws being passed, and no surprise that there is a group like the Heritage Action fund that is behind it. They deny theyre doing this, but we found this on their website. On heritages website they have a section called Best Practices for strengthening electoral systems, what states should do. I want to go through some of this. Theyre trying to launder policies to make them sound reasonable when the whole premise is bs. So there is no voter fraud, so none of these laws are fixing anything because theres nothing to fix. But lets take them through. What does verifying the address of Voter Registration lists, why do they want to do that . Lets be clear, federal law already requires the verification and accuracy of Voter Registration lists. That was a bipartisan bill passed 30 years ago now. So what they are talking about is not verifying the accuracy of voter lists. Theyre talking about purging voter lists, kicking off the voter list people who are eligible to vote. We saw in iowa, after they passed the law, people have been erroneously moved from active to inactive. So theyre just talking about voter purges. The iowa law is interesting because theyre taking off, quote, infrequent voters, those are people who vote every four years. All of the laws seem to specifically target a purge of people who come out and vote for democratic choices, more or less, other than republican. Are you surprised that there isnt more urgency from the white house and congressional leaders . Look, i think that the white house and democrats in congress are doing everything they can. The president spoke about it in his joint address to congress. Senator schumer personally attended the rules Committee Markup on the for the people act. Speaker pelosi moved it through the house as hr 1, its s 1 in the senate. The reality is the senate has the rules that the senate has. And the question now is going to be whether or not it can advance in the face of what will be unanimous republican opposition. And i hope it will. Let me just push you a little bit more because i know you know this, actually you write this, let me put it in your words first. While democrats divide their attention between health care, the economy, and racial justice, republicans are singularly focused on making voting even more difficult and spreading disinformation about our elections. Every day the proponents of the big lie are speaking louder with more voices and influence on this topic than we are. That is true, and i will just add, the republicans dont have a Policy Agenda that theyre pushing. They dont put out talking points about an alternative covid Relief Vision or an alternative, you know, comprehensive infrastructure vision. Its just a smaller one, it takes five minutes, you just lop off everything that isnt a road or a bridge. So they dont have Anything Else. This is ball game for them. They know how to win elections and they only win elections if they do these things, if they require voter i. D. , limit absentee ballots, prevent vote trafficking, allow observers. Its everything thats on the heritage list, its everything thats racing through legislatures. So in a perfect world, if you didnt understand that democrats are dealing with a lot of policies, what would you have them do . Look, i meant what i wrote, which is that the top priority for democrats and progressives needs to be protecting Voting Rights. And that is our first that should be our first, second, and third agenda item. Because without the protection of the right to vote, nothing else will matter. And the republicans, as you point out, this is their only thing, the only thing they talk about, the only thing that unites them is disenfranchising voters because they dont have any other way to win elections unless they disenfranchise voters. So its urgently important that we talk out about this, speak in the town square, to our neighbors about it, and to push back in every way we can, whether its in the courts or in congress or its in State Legislatures. I do think that the democrats in congress are doing that. I think the question is whether or not they can get that bill across the finish line. Would you like to see them reform the filibuster in the senate to ensure its passage, or aid it . I would like to see its passage. If that requires reforming the filibuster for this bill, yes. I dont know what the right reformation is in the broader sense. But the filibuster should not be able to be used to prevent Voting Rights laws from passing. Did you think on your path, and i know ben ginsburg from working in republican elections, and he came out and said the only Person Flirting with criminal voter fraud is donald trump by urging his supporters to commit it when he called on them publicly to vote twice. Hes called voter fraud this republican myth, you know, folklore in search of solutions, laws that heritage is pushing out, we know from the video, in search of a problem. Did you foresee a day when the lie would become bigger and sort of this Unstoppable Force to enact this republican wish list . No. No. You know, look, i worked for john kerry in the 2004 election. And, you know, so i had profound differences with george bush and with ben ginsburg who i know very, very well. But the fact is that george bush didnt celebrate winning the presidency by losing the popular vote in 2000. Enact in 2004 he went about telling his campaign, as i understand it, having been on the other side, to make sure that they ran up vote totals in some blue states that they werent going to win because of the importance of showing the American People that the person elected had a mandate to govern. And i did not envision the day in which the Republican Party would abandon the idea of consent of the governed, abandon the idea of popular will, and mandates, in a favor of simply trying to shrink the electorate smaller and smaller. Marc, can you tell us what people a lot of people who watch this program care a whole lot about what youre doing and about this issue. What can people do . So look, the most important thing people can do, which is in some ways the hardest, is what youre doing, and i thank you for it, which is using the voice they have. Now, for you its a very big voice, you have msnbc and you have millions of listeners. But everyone has a forum that they can speak out in and make this the most important issue. So for you, its putting guests on tv to talk about this. For others, it may be posting on social media. It may be confronting their neighbors, their friends, their customers, their clients, theyre crazy uncle, and not turning a blind eye to the big lie, not humoring people and say i dont want to talk about it, but being willing to stand up and say its not true. What liz cheney did in standing up in that conference room, in a 15minute meeting, when she was booed, by voice vote, by voice vote, telling her colleagues that what they were saying was not true, is what every american needs to do. Not all of us are going to do it in the halls of congress, not all of us are going to do it on tv, not everyone is going to do it in the courtroom, but everyone can do it in some way. Thats what we need people to do. You see it as existential to the opportunity to preserve our democracy. Based on who we vote for, that may not be an opportunity. But you always have an open invitation. Thank you for starting the hour with us. I look forward to coming back with the open invitation. Thank you so much. Joining our conversations, Washington Post Pulitzer Prize winning columnist eugene robinson. Eugene, it strikes me that this is when i want to say, you have to fight like republicans. Marc elias is nice to say he understands the democrats have governing to do, and hes right, but the truth is theres only one governing party right now, the other one does stuff that isnt governing. I wonder if you agree with him about democratic lawmakers and the white house taking this as seriously as it should be taken. I dont think theyre taking it seriously enough. And, you know, i disagree with marc on well, not really disagree, but he said these were conservative activists who are behind this stuff. In fact theres nothing conservative about trying to deny the franchise to legitimate voters. Theres nothing conservative about trying to purge voter rolls of legitimate voters who have a right to vote. Thats not conservative, thats radical. Thats, you know, thats antidemocratic. And yes, it should be called out, and everyone should speak out in whatever forum they have. But at the end of the day, i dont think thats going to do you know anything. I dont think thats going to stop these State Legislatures from passing these bills into law one bit. And i think its going to have to be either defeated by federal legislation, the for the people act, and democrats are just going to have to pass that, however they need to pass it, including suspending, nuking, whatever, the filibuster, or its going to and or its going to be struck by the courts. And what marc is doing in the courts. And one of those things needs to happen. But thats the only way progress is going to be made. I am much more pessimistic than he about what would happen if everybody who is against this and sees whats happening speaks out, because i dont think thats going to dent the big lie. In his defense, he is the legal architect of the fight, its not on him to come out with a political absolutely. Olivia troye, republicans are playing a fast game because they want to make sure they prevail in the elections, theyre playing a rightnow game. Democrats dont have time for a sixmonthlong commission to study the filibuster, its now or never. Republicans call me sometimes and say, oh, nicolle, what could you live with in terms of Voting Security . I said, its not about what i could live with, theres no voter fraud, so its all bull. Its not about what you can sell to me. None of it is real, it is all fake. Olivia, i hate to say this, but theyve again successfully moved the goalposts so in these states, democrats in texas, democrats in iowa are having to fight over what they can live with. None of this is reasonable. There is no voter fraud. Right, because none of it is true. And so you should ask them the question of when are you going to start telling people the truth. And the answer is theyre not, because theyre going to continue to fund raise it, theyre going to continue to make it harder. Thats their strategy, thats really the only thing they have going for them right now. And that is a shameful day when the only thing you have going for you to get you elected is to lie and you have to steal the election and thats the way you get people in congress. And i think its going to be incumbent look, its going to take all of us, like marc said, its going to take i encourage conservative voices out there, true conservatives, not trump republican conservatives, because i think that redefines the word, certainly, those voices need to be out there as well. We need to be communicating to people, saying like these are the facts, all of this is a charade, and a low moment for our democracy. Its unamerican. Im waiting for a parade of republicans who champion democrats champion diplomats overseas, to come out and protect our democracy. In arizona the vote Recount Effort is clearing out, not because they know theyre fools but because there are other things scheduled in the arena. Hmm, what could go wrong . And the legal trouble that may lie ahead for Congressman Matt Gaetz now that his wingman has pled guilty. And the yankees who have tested positive for covid. Well talk to an expert. Dateline white house continues after a quick break. Dont go anywhere. Nt go anywhe. Doug . [ding] never settle with power e trade. It has easytouse tools and some of the lowest prices. Dont get mad. Get e trade and start trading today. We made usaa insurance for members like martin. An air force veteran made of doing whats right, not whats easy. 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Thats right, 50 off on americas most reliable 5g network. Only at tmobile. The leader in 5g. In arizona they call it an audit. Of course we know thats not what it is. It is an unprecedented slowmoving and supremely partisan, like beyond partisan, exercise. The backwards search for proof to support a Conspiracy Theory theyve already accepted as fact. So far they reportedly handcounted about 500,000 of the 2. 1 million ballots cast in maricopa county. But this weekend they have to pause, they have to pack everything up and temporarily vacate the stadium theyre using because the venue is hosting High School Graduations next week. But after those graduations are over, the socalled auditors will come back with their boxes looking for bamboo, continuing their neverending search for watermarks and bamboo fibers, a bizarre situation summed up perfectly last night by my colleague Rachel Maddow. What could go wrong . Thats a totally normal and professional thing to do, right . Already the twitter account for the audit run by an uncertified, totally inexperienced conspiracyled bunch of Trump Partisans says theyve uncovered discrepancies as they unboxed and reboxed the ballots that they will soon unbox again. Ooh, you found discrepancies. What an unexpected turn of events. Joining us is Arizona Republic reporter watching the audit from inside yesterday. Eugene and olivia are still here. Tell us whats happening. Theyre boxing up, while some kids celebrate graduating high school and then theyll get back to counting after taking a week off. It was really slow going last night when i left. There was one table of counters still spinning ballots around and a lot of folks moving equipment out of the room. Ryan, what do they think theyre looking for . Well, the Senate President today did an interview where she said theyre not necessarily looking for fraud so much as they are trying to dispel all the rumors, and that they should be applauded for doing such a great audit to quash the Conspiracy Theories about bamboo. She said were not necessarily looking for bamboo, were trying to get rid of the Conspiracy Theories that there is bamboo and you should all thank us because the media has gotten this all wrong so far. And at the end of it she calls the Conspiracy Theorists are all wrong, ill give her credit, ill clap for her. But thats not why she did this, they did this because the three audits approved by democrats and republicans in the state werent good enough. Yeah, and there were people that that wasnt good enough for and she, like many other republicans in the state, couldnt tell those people that they were wrong, so they got all the ballots and brought em down to the Veterans Memorial coliseum and have been counting them and looking at them with lights and looking at them for folds where there shouldnt be folds or no folds where there should be fold. They told us yesterday maybe half a million ballots have been counted so far. Ryan, who is doing the counting . Well, i can tell you whos not doing the counting them, thats the former State Representative who was on one of those ballots. Hes been relieved of his duties down at the coliseum. But we dont really know who the rest of these folks are. We know they did reach out to Law Enforcement groups and people who were complaining of fraud in the election to ask them to come down and volunteer or work. Were not really sure who is paid and whos not in this effort, to help with the audit. So the identities of most of these folks are not known to us. So we dont know whos counting them but we think this is going to be the group that dispels distrust of the three bipartisan professional audits, is that the logic . That is, and ill challenge that statement a little bit too, because if their effort is to dispel the Conspiracy Theories then why are they fueling the Conspiracy Theories through this twitter account run by someone at the audit who they wont tell us who is running it . So on one hand theyre saying were only doing this to appease everybody and let them know there isnt bamboo in the ballots and that there arent watermarks on the ballots but at the same time this twitter account run by somebody down there, it keeps fueling the fire and saying that there are problems before theyre done with the audit, theyre releasing these halfbaked results, telling us there are problems already, when theyre not done. Olivia troye, let me bring you into this conversation with ryan and eugene. Today the department of Homeland Security on which you served issued a domestic Terror Alert Warning of Domestic Violence from grievance ideology. What does the conspiracymotivated endeavor in arizona to recount thricecounted ballots do in that respect . Were going to have once again, the socalled patriots, in quotes, who think theyre doing their constitutional duty to inspire violence across the country. As long as this narrative plays out and this remains in the headlines, thats truly what the arizona audit is really about. My concern is, nicolle, if you think this is bad right now, we are six months out from the 2020 election, an election that we know, President Biden is in office, hes pushing policy, but my worry is we are going to see more of this in 2022, and likely 2024. And we are going to see this fuel division. That is why were seeing these groups gain traction, were seeing domestic terrorism be on the rise, because all of this fuels all of these ideologies, everything thats in social media, all of these communications, spectacles like this, the circus thats happening in arizona, contribute directly to all of this. And eugene, that is the sort of slow motion way that a democracy dissolves. The elections are never settled, they never end. That was liz cheneys point, that she described it as a crusade on Donald Trumps part, but the crusade got a big boost this week, liz cheney was purged for calling it such and not going along with the big lie. And as ryan has detailed, there are Conspiracy Theorists connected with this faux audit and running this twitter account be. The antidemocratic forces seem to be winning this week, eugene. They certainly do. And, you know, once you lose that faith in the basic act of democracy, in the elections, in the integrity of elections, once thats lost, its hard to get it back. You know, i lived in countries in south america when those countries were returning to democracy after long years of dictatorship, and it was very difficult to sort of get people to trust the process, the accuracy and integrity of the vote, and really to trust the system. This erodes that trust. Meanwhile, there is a federal law governing how ballots in federal elections are supposed to be handled and kept for i think its like three years. The Justice Department has already sent a letter to arizona saying, this doesnt really look like its conforming to what the law says and you need to watch out for that. So i personally would be kind of happy if this ended with a big fbi raid. Its just an unbelievable for violating federal law. Its an unbelievable possibility, it speaks to how down the rabbit hole we are. Eugene robinson, olivia troye, ryan randazzo, thank you for spending time with us. Coming up, how much legal jeopardy could florida Congressman Matt Gaetz be facing . [sfx bikes passing] [sfx fire truck siren] onstar, we see them. Okay. Mother and child in vehicle. Mother is unable to exit the vehicle. Injuries are unknown. Thank you, onstar. My son, is he okay . Your sons fine. Thank you. There was something in the road. Its okay. Youre safe now. So with your home auto bundle, youll save money and get roundtheclock protection. Sounds great. Sure does. Shouldnt something, you know, wacky be happening right now . We thought people could use a break. Weve all been through a lot this year. That makes sense. Yeah. So. Nows not a good time 3 5ths of nsync. Are you sure . You have us booked all day. Read the room, guys. Yeah. Right . We started with computers. We didnt stop at computers. We didnt stop at storage or cloud. We kept going. Working with our customers to enable the kind of technology that can guide an astronaut back to safety. And help make a hospital come to you, instead of you going to it. So when it comes to your business, you know well stop at nothing. This is our block. So when it comes to your place. Ss, our people. Watch the curb. Not having a ride to get the vaccine. Cant be the reason you dont get it. You wanna help . Donate a ride today. For the past few weeks matt gaetz has tried to distract the public from the Sex Trafficking investigation swirling around him by going on the road to denigrate liz cheney and push his America First agenda with Marjorie Taylor greene. Not sure it works, but now that his friend and onetime wing man Joel Greenberg is pleading guilty to six federal charges including Sex Trafficking of a child and has agreed to cooperate with investigators, the legal pressure is building on gaetz, who has not been charged with a crime and denies having ever paid for sex or having sex with a minor. Joining us now, former Deputy Assistant attorney general and former u. S. Attorney harry litman is here. So how much trouble, from what youve seen in the New York Times and other places, do you think that matt gaetz is in . Hes in a world of trouble, because its quite likely the charge theyre going after, based on the Plea Agreement and everything we knew already, is the same one that greenberg has been forced to plead to. One is Sex Trafficking with a minor, and importantly, it does not require that you know that the victim is under 18. Its a very tough statute, it says if you had a reasonable opportunity to observe. Now, gaetz is saying i never had sex with anyone under 18. But when you think about that, how would he be able to say that with confidence . Did he ask for i. D. . It doesnt seem very likely. And greenberg will say that he sort of passed this girl around to many people including gaetz and presumably they have corroborating information and evidence. I say presumably because greenberg himself is going to be such a noncredible witness that they must have other material, because to have him cooperate, they have to have concluded that hes going to be able to make the case and hes going to be believed overall by a jury that theyre going to be able to convict. So i would say big, big trouble. And the final headline, its a tenyear mandatory minimum, no getting around it. So this is the weekend his life changes, nicolle, and hes focused on being a putative criminal defendant. Thats just a remarkable twist of fate if it comes to pass. The New York Times has previously reported that Joel Greenberg has been to go federal investigators since last december. Let me read something from the reporting. I want to ask you, if we presume thats what theyve been doing for the last five months before they agreed to let him enter into a plea deal, were they trying to corroborate some of this. Let me read some of that. Mr. Greenberg was first indicted in june for spreading false rumors that a rival had had sex with a student. He initially wanted to fight the charges but around the end of last year as he was confronted with the possibility that he could face decades in prison if convicted, he began cooperating with investigators. So thats last december. Were at midmay. Do investigators take that time with someone like greenberg and go out asking for the receipts, if you will . Yes. But its less to show hes credible. This guy as a disaster on the stand. And more to find corroborating information. They did ask for the receipts, give me every date you were with her, lets see your credit card, et cetera. Its more to build corroborating information, talk to the victim, talk to other girls or other women, remember, hes a whole wingman, very unfortunate phrase for matt gaetz who used it of greenberg. What they have to have concluded, nicolle, first time, by the way, they have to have concluded that he is less culpable and gaetz, because they cant cooperate down, as it were, and it doesnt count that gaetz is a big scalp and a congress person. So theyve decided that gaetz is more culpable. But second, they can convince a jury. And with the disastrous witness like greenberg, thats not a matter of shoring him up. Its a matter of Corroborating Evidence so they say at the end to the jury, of course hes a lying sleaze bag but look at these 15 reasons why you can confirm what hes saying. So what investigators, federal investigators and prosecutors know is that he has no credibility as a witness, they use him as a narrator and they go out and find separate evidence. Is it your judgment that thats likely what theyve spent these months doing when it comes to matt gaetz . Yeah, and of course its been many months, and gaetz, remember, theres a whole cluster of different conduct that he may be subject to, but this is the most serious. And i think the number one piece of evidence they probably have, the testimony of the victim, who said yes, i had sex with him, and other ways to prove that that happened, at the particular hotel, et cetera. The thing thats going to be tricky for them, by the way, even if they show that shes under 17, is that its a commercial sex act, meaning these things that gaetz was giving her, the hotel and lob ster dinner, the socalled sugar daddy part, the quid pro quo in exchange for the test. Shell probably testify to that, greenberg will as well, and that will be the nub of the matter. But when the victim comes up and says, yes, that happened, and can describe it in particulars, you know, it doesnt matter that the wingman is not so credible. Unbelievable times. We need a pg13 rating for these hours these days. Harry litman, thank you for spending time with us, nice to see you. When we return, its a bit of a coronavirus mystery. How did eight members of the New York Yankees test positive for covid after being fully vaccinated . Our medical expert explains what it means and why it may not be as alarming as it sounds. Alarms how great is it that we get to tell everybody how Liberty Mutual customizes your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need . I mean it. Uhoh, sorry. Oh. What . Im an emu no, buddy only pay for what you need. Liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. This is the sound of change. The sound of a thousand sighs of relief. And the sound of a company watching out for you. This is the sound of low cash mode from pnc bank, giving you multiple options and at least 24 hours to help you avoid an overdraft fee. Because we believe how you handle overdrafts should be in your control, not just your banks. Low cash mode on virtual wallet from pnc bank. One way were making a difference. Low cash mode on virtual wallet from pnc bank. I want to see you stand up i want to feel you be proud i want to hear your Beating Heart live out loud you can do it on your own stand up now be proud, yeah stand up now live out loud, oh this week as we begin to enter a whole new world with the cdc saying that fully vaccinated people can safely go about their lives without masks and distancing, there are several socalled Breakthrough Positive Covid cases that are making headlines. Eight fully vaccinated New York Yankees players and coaches and now bill maher have testified positive more than two weeks after getting their second doses. The thing is, none of them are hospitalized that we know of and only yankees Third Base Coach showed any symptoms of covid at all. Its also evidence that vaccines work to prevent severe cases and hospitalizations. A study this week shows nearly 100 of patients of all ages hospitalized with covid during the first 3 1 2 months of this year were not fully vaccinated. Joining us now, someone weve turned to for advice through the last year, an Infectious Disease physician and medical director of the Special Pathogens Unit at boston medical center. For all the days weve talked about the tragedies and the downturns, what was it like for you yesterday to hear that vaccinated people can now safely take their masks off . I think its a sign both of the hard work that weve put in in all of our communities and the sacrifices weve made but also the miracle of these vaccines. Weve seen them play out in other countries, nicolle, in terms of the fact that the numbers of cases are going down. And massachusetts on tuesday reported zero deaths from covid. As you know, were ahead of the curve in terms of the number of vaccinations. Were really looking at, in the future, starting to imagine what a fullyvaccinated Community Looks like. And so its a good day for that. I checked my zip code, and its a really reassuring number, obviously we live in a global community, so were going to stay on this and remain concerned. And i wonder what you can tell us about breakthrough positive hits on covid tests for yankees players who got sick with covid. Thats right, nicolle, we will see breakthrough infections. We know that particularly with johnson johnson, which is the vaccine that the yankees players got, you can get its a bit lower efficacy when it comes to all infections. It still protects 100 or a very high percent against hospitalizations and deaths, 100 against deaths, but there are breakthrough infections. But this is a story of success. We dont know the details of whether these players and the coaches were infected from another person maybe who had been unvaccinated, we dont know what the source was, but in that scenario, when all these people were exposed to the virus, none of them, except for one person, developed mild symptoms. And this is a case of what it will look like when more and more of us are vaccinated, which means the virus could be circulating, it may in some of us cause an infection that does, if you test people, the virus shows up on a test, but its unclear at that point if the vaccinated person who has that virus is capable of transmitting it to other people, and clearly the signs are there that if youre vaccinated, as you presented from the Cleveland Clinic study, chances are you will not get hospitalized and you will not have severe disease. Dr. Walensky was on the today show this morning making a similar point to yours with sort of a real world twist about being in a crowded restaurant which we restaurant, which we may experience. Let me play that. Well talk about it on the other side. And what i can tell you is certainly as someone is hacking on a restaurant, i would like them to put on a mask and more importantly, i would encourage them to get vaccinated if they werent. If you are near that person and you are vaccinated, your risk is really quite low. This is the other side. We have covered the Vaccine Reluctance so much. But there is some anxieties. And my colleague Rachel Maddow asked her last night, are you sure . She said, were sure. Ill just ask you. Are we sure that were ready for this stuff . Yeah. I think the cdcs guideline is the correct one for vaccinated people. I think when you are vaccinated, you dont get sick and you are less of a threat to your community. I think the one caveat i would add is that in this setting when masks go away the risk becomes people who are unvaccinated versus those that dont unmask because youre a threat to those are unvaccinated or those that cant develop the antibodies. What i would like to see is potentially states Benchmark Dropping Indoorman dates as theyre doing this to a number of people vaccinated in their communities and Community Transmission rates. If you have 5 to 10 cases per 100,000, even if someone who cheats who is not vaccinated, taking these mandates away, the chances you may come across Somebody Else who is unvaccinated will go down lower if you have High Percentage of vaccinates and low Community Transmission. Thank you for spending some time with us today. When we return, as we do every day, we will remember lived welllived. [music youre the best by joe esposito] [music youre the best by joe esposito] [triumphantly yells] [ding] dont get mad. 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Get self protection for 10 a month. Thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times. Were grateful. The beat with ari melber starts right now. Hi, ari. Hi, nicole. Thank you very much. We have breaking news about matt gaetz. A major breakthrough today in this sex crimes probe that involves Joel Greenberg and his ally gaetz. Mr. Greenberg is not only pleading guilty, which first emerged in a federal filing this week, but tonight were learning he will cooperate with federal investigators. Thats bad news for anyone greenberg has incriminating evidence on. Tonight we know what we did not know yesterday or last week or in march when this volcanic story first broke. Greenberg has some kind of credible information to officer to offer, i shoul