Nation, reverend Al Sharpton. Good to have you onboard. Heres the deal, everybody. Wait a second. Willie, did i miss anything . I just got here. Lets get you miked up. Hes putting his tie on. Its just did i miss anything . Did we talk about your birthday, willie. I really wanted to make it to your birthday. I was like Uncle Billy and i had a string right here. I missed your birthday. You know, i didnt get a lot. What i got myself for my birthday was the second shot of moderna, so im fully vaccinationed, which is the best possible birthday case. It was about 18 hours ago that i got the shot and i feel good today. Good for you. A great example. Everybody needs to get vaccinated. Willies always a great example, except when he isnt. Hes adorable. Willie, weve got some good news. Sal called me. Seems like that odb is opening up. And i mean nobody. A lot of diseases go through that thing even at the best of times. Typhoid fever do you guys know that always the gout Going On. When the mayor and the governor announced these reopenings, what joe and i heard was, throw open the doors of the obt, lets get in there and bet the trotters every tuesday, wednesday, and thursday night. Do you guys know how long weve been doing this show . Its something like 14 years, and youve been doing that for 14 years. Its getting old. Are you suggesting the jokes are getting old . We were actually doing offtrack betting long before are you going to give us the news now . New york, new jersey, and connecticut are banding together to ease most pandemic restrictions by may 19. So big step for the former epicenter for the virus. Can you imagine that . Houses of worship, offices, retail, entertainment, cultural venues as well as Fitness Centers and personal care businesses will all be able to operate at full capacity for the first time in over a year. The decision comes as more people get vaccinated and need to stimulate the economy. Broadway can also open, although they wont be ready for a Curtain Call. Large outdoor events such as fireworks displays, parades, and State Fairs can also resume, just in time for summer, with Capacity Restrictions being lifted, businesses are still expected to follow federal social distancing requirements, but can get around it if the businesses require a proof of vaccination or a negative covid test. Thats pretty awesome. Yeah, it is. In New York, Governor Andrew Cuomo also lifted curfews on Food And Beverage service and announced New York City Subway System will resume 24hour Service on may 17th. The mta will continue its cleaning and disinfecting regimen for the trains. In announcing the sweeping changes, cuomo said of those vaccinated, quote, life should be returning to normal. Youre vaccinated and its an incentive to be vaccinated. You can have a normal life. Meanwhile, new Jersey Governor Phil Murphy announced a new initiative as part of Operation Jersey Summer to encourage the states residents to get vaccinated. The governor tweeted yesterday, quote, were launching our shot and a Beer Program. I like this. To encourage eligible new jerseyans ages 21 and over to get vaccinated. Any new jerseyan who gets their first Vaccine Dose in the month of may and takes their Vaccination Card to a participating brewery, will get free beer. That is very, very jersey. In the words of sir paul mccartney, willie, whats wrong with that . I would like to know. Here we go again. Its smart. And also, i love the idea, also. Weve been complaining about it for a couple of weeks on this show. But if you have a vaccination and, youre really looking at the numbers and science, all of this makes perfect sense. By the way, i was at an event the other night and like we were outside. Everybody was vaccinated and theyre doing this it was a dude, just relax. No, no. Im just saying at some point, we follow the science and the science tells us, if im vaccinated and youre vaccinated, we can go to otb. We can go to the yankees games. Of course up in fenway, theyre still only allowing 17 people in per game. Next week, i understand the governor will allow 24 people in per game. But you look at what the tristate area is doing and theyre opening up these games. Its almost like we all live in texas and are rangers fans now. And texas was a great Test Case over the last month to two months when there was so much fear about what was going to happen there. It hasnt come to pass. Their cases and hospitalizations have remained level or even dipped a little bit. So this is so think about where we were, all of us, sitting here in march and april of last year, or even a year ago right now in early may. We didnt know where this was going to end. Im not going to say this has ended by any stretch of imagination, but i went outside on Sunday Night, sat outdoors, the tables were packed. They were distanced, but all full and it felt like life again. And i think thats what you feel in New York and new Jersey And Connecticut, and texas and all the states that have taken these steps is that weve done the work, weve spent the time doing the things that weve needed to do. Stayed in our homes, separated from Each Other, weve deprived ourselves of a lot of things. And when its safe, and its safe because people are getting vaccinated, so we need to do to continue to do this. But when its safe, we can step back into our real lives. And another piece of exciting news, guys, yesterday, the u. S. Vaccination campaign will soon expand to millions more people. According to federal officials, the fda is preparing to authorize use of Pfizer Biontech Vaccine for children as young as 12 as early as next week. The cdc advisory panel likely to meet the following day to review the Clinical Trial data and make recommendations for the vaccines use in adolescents. Several weeks ago, youll remember, pfizer reported none of the adolescents in the Clinical Trial who received the vaccine developed symptomatic infections, a sign of significant protection. So, joe, were talking about 12 to 15yearolds here. This has massive implications, of course, for schools reopening this fall. Massive implications. I can tell you also in our family, and you know this, andrew is a diabetic, so we were very concerned about that, but jack, as you remember, was a premie. And jack is the healthiest kid in the world. Hes going to be like 7 foot. The kid just keeps growing. Hes unbelievably healthy, but has upper respiratory issues. And at the beginning of covid, the doctors said, hey, hes the one youve got to worry about the most. He got covid a month or two ago. Thank god he got through it okay. But weve been very nervous. We want to start our summer plans. We were still going to send him to camp because he had covid before and so but theres so many questions about immunity. So these shots for kids 12 and over, what a great relief, not only for our family, but for millions of americans. And youre right, also, for schools, because we do understand that the younger you go, like when youre in elementary school, the numbers are so small in elementary schools that this really all but guarantees that every school is going to be open, unless you just have people that dont want to go back to work. And yes, ill just say that. Willie, this is really great news. And one more example of how americans can just get out and enjoy their summers. Its been extraordinary, isnt it, mika, that the vaccine was developed this fast for adults, was one thing, and now that theyve moved this quickly for children as well, 12 to 15, to get the schools reopened, its incredible what science has done for us and were all grateful. And i felt it yesterday when that needle went in my arm. Complete gratitude for all the people that got us here. I totally agree with that. Its science and also really good coordination effort. The federal government, though, is rethinking its current Vaccine Distribution efforts as the number of americans signing up to receive their shots has gone down. The u. S. Is now at the lowest average of people receiving their first dose since february, now under 1. 1 Million each day. Just three weeks ago, an average was at 2 Million per day. According to the politico, the biden administration was caught offguard by The Steep Drop and is pivoting from using Mass Vaccination sites to refrigerated advance, Community Health clinics, and even doortodoor campaigns in rural communities. If you hear the Ice Cream Truck come to your neighborhood, get ready thats a great way to do it, too, for the kid. Get the Alcohol Swab out. Because theyre coming. Hey, rev, i know with a lot of Trump Supporters, we heard at the beginning, there were a lot of Trump Supporters that were going to be reluctant. What about efforts in communities of people of color, who have long historically been, according to the numbers, been a little bit more concerned about vaccines. What kind of progress is being made in those communities . There has been some real progress, though theres still a lot of work to be done. The hesitancy in a lot of the africanamerican communities and other communities is based on a lot of bad history, bad engagements with being experimented on. And it took a lot of effort from Community Leaders and Faith Leaders, working with government officials, people like dr. Fauci speaking to Faith Leaders and many initiatives that were started. Reverend w. Franklin richardson and others were really needing campaign. Reverend call vein budson, i started nationwide. And i think its reaped dividends. I think that when people saw that many of us that were highprofile would be vaccinated and that over a period of time, we were fine, we were healthy, it gave them a sense of relaxation. So were seeing the impact there. But the question also was having access. And i think the biden administration corrected a lot of the problems we had in making the actual vaccine accessible in communities of color, where a lot of Health Facilities were not there. So when you think churches are going to start opening up to such a degree, we can come hear you preach on Sunday Morning, rev. How long until that happens . Were looking forward to churches opening up, and i think that we probably will be seeing that in the near future. And i am certainly very anxious to see you come to church after you drop by the otb. And if you do well, you can come and bring your offering with you. And you can give it away. Thats nice. I always come and listen to Sunday Morning prayer, willie and i bet on the ponies. Weve got the preakness Coming Up in a couple of weeks. Im usually a backrow baptist, but i will sit on the Front Row when youre preaching. Im saving a seat for you. By the way, willie and James Brown, the Godfather Share a birthday. Any next book is going to be from James Brown to Willie Geist and all in between. Oh, my god. I love it. Me and the god father. Actually, were not thinking of James Brown. Im thinking, really, brothers from another mother. So, tell me, rev, what do you want to do once everything opens up . I want to more than anything else, see people in pews at church and in the seats at rallies. Its very hard when you come out of a transition of Call And Response kind of speaking and preaching i do to look at a camera or a laptop and say amen back at you. Im looking for somebody to really be there when im doing my speaking and sermonizing. Rev, are you going to after the pandemic, is it going to be any different than before the pandemic . Will you actually going will you be seen in public with me . Can we go out to restaurants together and eat together . Absolutely. I will go and well sit in the front of the open window at any restaurant, so people will know that we are together. And we walk together. Thats good. Thats good. All right, mika, it looks like everythings getting sunnier these days. I dont think he maintain that, but thats okay. Hell find a backroom and say, if anybody asks, dont tell them im here. So ive been going to church on zoom, 7 00 Sunday Nights, and each week, this is with my daughter, but each week, the priest would say, its so great to see because they would have five people in the pews, and now its ten people weeks ago, and this past sunday, it might have been 15 or 20. And the priests are so grateful for people, just seeing their faces. But its still very distanced. Hopefully in the coming months, well actually be able to see churches filled. That would be a great start. And the priest from georgetown, i can hear in the other room, because im listening to the Red Sox game or playing the show but im hearing him and hes got some good sermons. Really good. About the cornerstone. Yes, that was fantastic. All right, Coming Up, well move to phlox. Liz cheney is fighting back again. Do we do politics on this show . This is a political show. Its Willie Singing much more Morning Joe. Mo. At jackson hewitt, we offer safe and easy ways to file with a skilled Tax Pro. Securely drop off your documents, have them picked up, or upload them, and work with a Tax Pro online from home. Safe and easy ways to file that work around you. Magenta . And work with a Tax Pro online from home. Magenta crying Magenta Announcer the epson ecotank. No more cartridges. Just lots of ink. Print whatever makes you happy. The epson ecotank. Just fill and chill. Na na na na na na na na. Hey hey hey. Goodbye. Na na na na. Hey hey hey. Goodbye. Na na na na na na na na. The worlds first sixfunction multipro tailgate. Available on the gmc sierra. Youre strong. You power through chronic migraine 15 or more headache days a month,. Each lasting 4 hours or more. Botox® prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. So, if you havent tried botox® for your chronic migraine,. Check with your doctor if botox® is right for you, and if samples are available. Effects of botox® may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. 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Just say watchathon into your Voice Remote to add a Channel Or Streaming service and stay caught up. To politics now, where republican congresswoman Liz Cheney is standing strong against potential retaliation from her own party, for being a republican. It comes after her continued criticism of former president trumps false claims that the 2020 election was stolen from him. Gop leadership has recently warned the wyoming congresswoman that her remarks are a distraction amid really, her remarks . You mean Hold On, Hold On let me just ask a question. First of all, you have Liz Cheney and then you have the insurrection. What do you think is more of a distraction, Liz Cheney saying the right thing and being a Republican And Sticking to her true beliefs as a republican or hundreds or maybe even thousands of people assaulting our capitol, killing people, using the American Flag To Torture Capitol Cops, running around in the Halls Screaming, wheres Nancy Pelosi and Mike Pence . They had a noose im just wondering, i would be distracted by that if i were a republican who cared about my party and cared about my country. Well, not ron johnson. These are the most dishonest people that ive ever seen in politics, honestly. Thats saying a lot. Theres not really a close second to that. And thats where we are. The lies unfortunately that Kevin Mccarthy called out. Kevin mccarthy called out Donald Trump several weeks ago or several months ago and then backed down. Distracting. Lindsey graham called out Donald Trump and then backed down, because politically, theyre cowards. And it just you know, mika, it just continues. The thing is, it would be one thing if Donald Trump stopped spreading the Big Lie. It would be one thing if he stopped trying to undermine American Democracy. It would be one thing if he stopped hes not going to do that. Trying to thwart the Rule Of Law, ignoring one federal judge after another federal judge after another federal judge saying there was no ed of widespread Voter Fraud. That would have any impact on the outcome of the election. But mika, he just continues. He keeps spreading the Big Lie. Hes using his little voice on his little stage with his little band going baadumpbump, wherever he says something that he thinks he is interesting. He again used the 2020 election fraudulent. But cheney was having none of it, tweeting in response, the 2020 president ial election was note stolen. Anyone who claims it was is spreading the Big Lie, turning their back on the Rule Of Law and and undermining our democratic system. That is the most boring statement, just so boring and true and plain and simple. I find it hard to believe that any News Organization that calls itself a News Organization would ever allow anyone who voted to overturn the Election Results on January The 6th would ever let them on without asking the first question. Do you think the 2020 election was stolen . Do you think Joe Biden is the rightful president and was legally elected President Of The United States . And if any News Organization doesnt ask everyone that voted to undermine American Democracy on January The 6th and continues to spread the Big Lie, then they are absolutely shameless and no News Organization at all. And they are complicit. This is an ongoing threat to American Democracy. I would love to say, hey, that happened January The 6th. Its over and we learned our lessons and lets be more prepared going forward. We cant do that because there are like 175, 180 people still roaming around the halls of congress who spread that Big Lie and continue taking that Big Lie out across america and spreading that Big Lie. Every bit as much of a lie as other monstrous Big Lies throughout history. Every bit of a Big Lie if you love American Democracy, if you cherish madisonian democracy. Its every bit as much of a Big Lie. Every bit as much separated from truth, if you are an american who loves this country, loves madisonian democracy, and loves the united states constitution. Those Members Of Congress, by the way, do appear on those shows all the time and theyre not asked that question that they should be. And if they ever are asked, they say, were just asking questions. Well, those questions were asked before courts, before Election Boards and states across the country. Many of them run by republicans who came back and said, Joe Biden won the election. The statement that may cost Liz Cheney her chair, the 2020 election was not stolen. She might lose her job by saying that statement of fact out loud. Yesterday, cnn was first to report that at a Closeddoor Conference in georgia, Congresswoman Cheney said this. We cannot embrace the notion that the election is stolen. Its a poison in the bloodstream of our democracy. We cannot whitewash what happened on January 6th or perpetuate trumps Big Lie. It is a threat to democracy. What he did on January 6th is a line that cannot be crossed. Two Nbc News sources confirm cheneys reported comments are, in fact, accurate. Cheney made the remarks during an off the Record Interview with former House Speaker Paul ryan at the annual retreat for the conservative Think Tank, american enterprise institute. Lets bring in cofounder of punch bowl news, ana palmer, dan lewis, and national correspondent for the Washington Post, phillip bump. Ana, is Liz Cheney in fact going to lose her job . It certainly sounds like theres a Majority Push within the republican conference to oust her. I agree with that. I think that shes close to losing her job, probably than she ever has been before. Right now congress is out on recess. But i would not be surprised if you see lawmakers in the house republican Party Call for a Snap Election and clearly over the last week and a half, weve seen House North Leader Kevin Mccarthy say, he is not going to stand in the way of that. I dont think youll find any defenders. When you look at the house republican leadership, she is not the messenger they want and theyre looking at who could potentially replace her, which we reported on in this mornings newsletter. You know, Matt Lewis, its been laughable through the years, looking at bigspending republicans who really have been setting record deficits, record debts defining who a real conservative is, and who a real conservative is not. These washington republicans have been anything but conservative through the years, if you look at deficits and the debts and how they have wrecked us fiscally. But now theyre defining conservative in a way that people who ran up massive deficits and debts over the last five years are now complaining about deficits and debts and complaining that Mitt Romney and Liz Cheney are insufficiently conservative. You talk about a Personality Cult where ideas and ideology just doesnt matter anymore. That is this knownothing republican party, isnt it . Absolutely. A few years ago, conservatives and republicans quit caring about really what we considered the left versus the right or Progressive Versus conservatism. And switched to really Populism Or Nationalism and populism, insiders versus outsiders. And if thats the paradigm, if thats contrast, they call people like Mitt Romney and Liz Cheney insiders and theyre in enemy. But i find it so interesting. As you know, theres this classic conservative book in the canon of conservative economic philosophy called the road to surfdom. And in the book, he says that, in a totalitarian regime, the worst get on top. I think he was thinking of the soviet union. But the republican Party Today is a place where the worst get on top. You have Marjorie Taylor Greene raising 3. 25 million in the first quarter. And then you have Mitt Romney, a thoroughly decent republican guy getting booed in utah. And Liz Cheney, the iron lady, who is having the guts to stand up and do something that most men in the republican Party Wont do and frankly be honest about the Big Lie, and new shes being drummed out of her position. Its the worst getting on top. The incentives are all perverse. Its obviously a corrupt and dysfunctional organization. Yeah, obviously. And if you look at the books that we grew up reading as conservatives, whether you talk about the road to surfdom. And i had the edition that had milton friedmans introduction. You look at the ideas in that book. You look at russell kirks, the conservative mind. You real bill buckleys books. Theres such a massive disconnect. You read ronald reagans speeches. Margaret thatchers speeches. There is no correlation between those ideas and those ideologies and actually this sort of bizarre house of mirrors where youve got twisted and distorted images of what being a republican means in 2021. No relation at all, philip bump. And here you have again, people who didnt youd to be conservatives. People who are conservatives. Liz cheney. Mitt romney, who are now being considered insufficiently loyal to a failed president and a failed Reality Tv Show host. And theyre getting drummed out of the party because they dont embrace the Personality Cult thats completely twisted, warped, and disordered conservative thinking inside the republican party. Theres a fascinating bit of research that came out, and essentially, they did polling and asked the republican party activists who they thought they were more conservative and showed them a pair of senators. They were able to compile this ranking of who the most seeming conservative republicans were. And they went back that and compared to actual Ideology Rankings and the senators who were seen as being most loyal to Donald Trump were the ones who were found to be the most conservative. So he became the second most viewed conservative member of the republican caucus. And Ben Sasse and Jeff Flake had very strong conservative voting records, but they were not viewed as conservative by the activist base, because that notion of what it means to be conservative had reorganized itself around president trump. Ana, to philips point, Liz Cheney whos being painted as nothing being conservative enough voted with Donald Trumps Position Something like 93 of the time. Obviously, this is not about issues, its not about policy, its not about ideas, its about whether or not youre loyal to Donald Trump. What are you hearing as you report around Capitol Hill from Members Of Congress, republicans around the scenes, what do they say about Liz Cheney. Do they believe what theyre saying about her . Or do they believe if theyre the ones who stepped out to report her, they might get their political head chopped off. I think theres a frustration with the fact that she continues to message around January 6th and speak out very forcefully publicly as well as privately. Most of these members want to move forward and not talk about that. So i think as long as she continues to do that, shes going to be out of step with the vast majority of the house republican conference. As much as that might frustrate a lot of folks here in washington and around the country, the vast majority of house republicans are in lockstep with Donald Trump. They were elected because they supported his presidency. And that continues to that day. I think the other thing youre hearing even among those where you feel like there cant be this division been the Gop Leadership. That theres this clear divide between Kevin Mccarthy and Liz Cheney and republicans want to be in the majority coming into 2022. And they dont think that serves their purposes very well. Phil, youre also writing about this recount. People may not realize in arizona, there continues to be a recount in Maricopa County where Joe Biden won by a sliver, won arizona, just barely. But its a bizarre recount. Its being run by private companies, including one that has no experience in doing recounts. Its running this . Why are they running it . Whats Going On there . Essentially what happens the the republicancontrolled State Senate in arizona decided they wanted to have the ballots recounted. There had been a push right after the election to do a full recount in Maricopa County. The county is about 60 of the votes. Biden won there by about 45,000 votes and the state overall by about 10,000 votes. Thats sort of the thinking. So what happened then is the State Senate went out and hired this firm called cyber ninjas, which is based out of florida, although No One in florida has ever heard of them. And this guy named Doug Logan who runs this firm, who has been lifted up by sydney powell, the now notorious former member of Donald Trumps legal team for spreading these Conspiracy Theories and has now been tapped to run this process in arizona. Its this bizarre process involving all of these nuptial systems and processes, theyre barring bipartisan observers and making it difficult for the media to know whats going upon it is the Textbook Example if you want to not instill process, this is how you do it, hiring people who are obviously theres a guy sitting there counting votes who is at the capitol on January 6th. And now hes sitting there and supposed to be one of these people whos assessing the validity of Maricopa County. Its bizarre. Matt lewis, weve been thinking about conservative history. And i think back to the times where conservatives really made moves forward. You can think about the late 70s and early 1980s where you had Jack Kemp and the Heritage Foundation really for the first time really getting out of the gate and influencing what was Going On in washington, d. C. As newt was moving towards a majority in washington in 94 for the first time in a generation, there were ideas left and right about how to reform government. Contract with america, which the media hated, but a majority of democrats voted for throughout the entire process. And there were ideas. And it always seemed that the democrats were the exhausted, tired party looking back. Looking back over the past 40 years, of this tired fdr coalition. Now you look at the republican party, its a party bereft of ideas. I said the other night, its a party with tactics, a mr. Potato head, dr. Seuss, and so theyve got tactics, but they dont have a general strategy to move conservatism forward. Look at Mitt Romney being booed over the weekend and theyre turning on their own in defense of a guy who lost the White House, the senate, and the House Of Representatives for them. What hope is there for this party . It is really amazing. And joe, youre right. People may not want to hear this or remember, but there was a time when conservatism had a proud intellectual pedigree. In fact, some of us thought maybe too intellectual for a while. Not pragmatic enough. Maybe a little too esoteric. There were serious thinkers doing serious work on public policy issues. And thats obviously over the years diminished, but i think Donald Trump really killed it. And maybe the worst thing Donald Trump has done is essentially undermined the entire conservative project. And joe, you probably remember, under the reagan years, it was thought that conservatism was a threelegged stool. You had fiscal conservatives, conservatives, and economic conservatives. And under Donald Trump, all three wings of the Conservative Movement have been undermined, diminished, and theyve lost their Moral Authority, right . Lets talk about social conservatism. People who are devout in their faith, who care about the culture. So many evangelicals have embraced Donald Trump that i think theyve really undermined not just their political philosophy, but their, in many cases, their christian witness. How can you have any Moral Authority if you supported trump. Lets talk about the fiscal conservative wing, right . Im concerned right now about the amount of money that Joe Biden and the democrats are spending, but republicans really have now Moral Authority to talk about spending or debt. Donald trump spent money like a drunken sailor. So republicans are hypocrites if they talk and really, they want to talk about Culture War issues, anyway. They dont even want to talk about money. And national security. Like, okay, i think its probably a mistake that were withdrawing from afghanistan, you know . We should i think we should leave a residual force behind. And Republicans Cant really say that. Republicans cant really make that point, because krmp is the one who had this idea. Hes the one who wanted to negotiate with the taliban. Donald trump has vanquished everything about conservatism that so many of us believe, those of us who are reagan conservatives. I think it will be a major, generational effort to rebuild this from the ground up. Matt lewis, ana palmer, philip bump, thank you all very much. Phil, everybody watching right now has high School Nostalgia for that scoreboard over your left shoulder. Amazing. Thanks, phil. Mika . All right. Coming up, Professor Michael Eric Dyson joins the conversation. And later, secretary of Homeland Security Alejandro mayorkas will be our guest as the biden administration begins its effort this week to reunite migrant families. Morning joe is coming right back. Families Morning Joe is coming right back stay restless with the icon that does the same. The rx, crafted by lexus. Lease the 2021 Rx 350 for 439 a month for 36 months. Experience amazing, at your lexus dealer. When i was young nonononono please please no. I never needed anyone. Front desk. Yes, hello. Im so. Please hold. Those days are done. I got you. All by yourself. Go with us and find millions of flexible options. All in our app. Expedia. It matters who you travel with. This is our block. Expedia. Our place. Our people. Watch the curb. Not having a ride to get the vaccine. Cant be the reason you dont get it. You wanna help . Donate a ride today. Did you know you can go to libertymutual. Com to customizes your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need . Really . I didnt aah ok. Im on vibrate. Aaah only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Antibacterial or moisturizing Body Wash . Definitely moisturizer antibacterial can i have both . New Dove Care protect Body Wash eliminates 99 of bacteria and moisturizes for hours two for one can i keep it . New Dove Care protect, zero Compromise Family and friends of andrew brown jr. Said their final goodbyes at his funeral yesterday, two weeks after he was shot and killed by police in north carolina. Speeches ranged from fond memories from Loved Ones to calls for justice from Community Leaders. Reverend al, you delivered the eulogy. Too often, we come to funerals of people that are unjustly brought to Death And Act like this is a natural occurrence. We are going to celebrate him, but we are not going to excuse the fact that we shouldnt have to be here to do this. Andrew is resting, but he loved some fighters and he left pro warriors to do his bidding. God has already put his people in place. All ive got to do for myself and my family, we just got to hold them down, do what he would want us to do in life. I love my daddy to death. But like my brother said, hes not here, but hes here, though. Amen hes definitely here. His physical being aint here, but hes here with us. Family of other black men killed by police like George Floyd, Daunte Wright, and Eric Garner attended the service and offered the family support. I feel the pain that this family is feeling. I just want to let you guys know today, today, trouble dont last always. To the family, we with yall, man. Not just now, when everything is high right now, but at the low. We want to be there too. When everybodys not around, youre part of us, man. The funeral was held just three miles from where brown was shot by officers, as they served a warrant on drug charges. Requests to make Body Camera Footage of the Incident Public were denied by a judge. Family were allowed to review a redacted 20 seconds of video. Nbc reports that superior Court Judge Jeff Foster said turning over footage to News Media could affect a potential trial of Law Enforcement officers who opened fire on brown. He also said hed revisit the issue in 30 to 45 days, once investigations of The Incident are completed. Three officers that fired at brown remain on administrative leave and four others involved in The Incident have returned to active duty. Reverend al, dual questions, number one, you were at all of these funerals and im wondering how you keep these families on the track of hope. Its got to be so hard. But secondly in this case, the Body Camera Video i think there is this Size Problem of trust when we cant see the transparency, when the public cant be given the transparency that the Body Camera Videos would provide. Can you explain whats happening in this case and why the Police Wont Release the full video . Well, that is the real question that is being raised in elizabeth city, north carolina, and frankly around the country. And that is, what is the purpose of having Body Cameras if youre not going to be transparent and forthcoming to show the public exactly what happens when youre deal with a fatality caused by police. Particularly in this case, it was exacerbated when the family had an independent autopsy done, and that independent autopsy reportedly was that the man, the victim here, andrew brown jr. , was shot in the back of the head. Whatever the warrant was for. Whatever he was being brought in for, does that warrant you shooting him if he was moving away from you, shooting him in the back of the head. You couldnt have been in a Lifeendangering Position to shoot a man in the back. And particularly in the back of his head. So that exacerbated hit. And what ive found, mika, this is the third funeral of a Police Killing ive done since George Floyd. And George Floyd is a year ago The End of this month. Three. And im not the only one doing them. So it shows that we have a problem around this country in terms of Law Enforcement, particularly in the black community, which is why this George Floyd justice in Policing Act is necessary. There has been no federal legislation to deal with this problem of policing nationwide. And all police are not bad. Even most are not bad. But the bad police need to face federal law and we cannot depend on local and state prosecutors to do what was done in minneapolis. Lets bring into this conversation, professor at vanderbilt university, michael Eric Dyson. His book, tears we cannot stop a sermon to White America is out today in paperback. Professor, great to see you this morning. Your impressions first of what you saw yesterday at the funeral of andrew brown jr. Sad service sad to watch George Floyds family say, you are a part of this community now. The Galvanizing Effect of mourning is a tragic reality in this cup for many black families. That this is an unwanted fellowship that is forged at a knees of Hurt And Pain and Trauma And Reverend Al Sharpton, who is the national pastor of black america, who stand in the gap between the perception of the loss of Democracy And Justice for so many black people, and the qust for black families and other for simple justice. Why we cant have transparency . Why cant we have the acknowledgement of the cameras of what actually happened. The judge is worried about the degree to which the police will be subjected to unfair consequence. About the family being subjected to the unfair consequence of unjust death at the hands of public servants. This suggests to us as black people continue to move forward in a culture where policing is out of control, where the denial of simple justice is our fate, we must continue to ask for federal legislation that changes the prospects of this. And then weve got to act on the local level to make certain that police people are protecting and serving black people and others in this nation. Professor, your book, tears we cannot stop came out in 2017 much has changed and happened since then particularly in the last year in this country. What new message do you have in the Paperback Edition with all thats happened since it first came out . Thank you for that. The tragedy is, so much has changed and so much has not changed. I wrote that book in the aftermath of Philando Castile in Minnesota And Alton sterling down in louisiana being subject to unjust death. And we add these other names and Daunte Wright and mr. Brown and of course George Floyd. The bodies continue to pile up, the agony continues to increase. The Terror And Trauma continue unabated nearly. So the reality is, in this book, in 2015, i preached a sermon no White America. Deal with white amnesia, deal with white denial. Deal with white distortion. Look at what we saw in the earlier segment, in the internal debate, the schism between economic conservative and populists and those who manipulate the ideals of conservatism towards their ends. Theres also a war Going On the status of racial justice in this nation. And the continual addiction to Amnesia And Denial to the simple facts. And what im begging and pleading many this revised sermon to White America is that youve got to come to grips with the social injustices and inequities that prevail and be decent about the Human Capacity to empathize with the other. Michael, what does white America Need to understand about policing as it pertains to Black Americans . We have seen where there are hispanic officers that at Times Act in a way thats not only disrespectful, but to black, mainly young males. We have at times seen black officers act that way. I know disproportionately, we see white officers, but is this just about how white officers see young black men, especially, or is this how all officers or most officers see young black men . Thats a great point you made there, joe. Im reminded of the nwa lyrics, and trust me, theyll be friendly for american public. Dont let them be a black and a white one, theyll show you down to The Street top. So the reality is, even at The Street level, the perception was it was the thin blue line. The real colors were black and blue. Blue against whatever else exists. And many black officers who have adhered to certain principles and practices themselves may have been caught up on the wrong side. However, i must say that when we look at overall latino and africanamerican officers, suspend white officers over to london to figure out how they can deal with the crime that exists without guns. Many black and latino officers for the most part have not engaged in the kind of responses that have been cruel and violent towards black people. And see blackness deeply stitched into the fabric of the american society. It seems to be something that is nearly endemic to policing in this country. And what weve got to wrestle with is its not just a few bad apples, the bunch itself is spoiled. Reverend Al Sharpton already indicated that look, were not demonizing police people, were talking about the degree to which police people seem incapable of acknowledging the humanity of black people. And ive got a ph. D from princeton, i teach at vanderbilt university, ive tried to do the right thing, write books and so on and so forth, so i should have no reason to be afraid of the police. Yet i live in terror that the police will stop me or one of my three children. What we have to deal with is antiblackness that seduces all ranges of ethnicities and races. Michael Eric Dyson, thank you very much. His book, tears we cannot stop a sermon to White America is out today in paperback. Reverend Al Sharpton, thank you as well. Still ahead, a new take on the split between Big Business and the republican party. Plus, it was once the epicenter of the Coronavirus Pandemic in the u. S. But now, theres a light at The End of the tunnel for New York, new jersey, and connecticut. Thats ahead on Morning Joe. Were back in 90 seconds. Secons Ac Dc Back In Black the bowls are back. Applebees irresistabowls all just 8. 99. I dont like veggies. What . whatever you have at home, Knorr Sides can turn nutritious veggies into mouthwatering meals. Veggies taste amazing with knorr. Welcome back to Morning Joe. It is tuesday, may 4th. The calm before the storm. May the fourth be with you. Dont do that kasie hunt stuff. Theres a few trucks. I see a donkey with a cart of apples. No, you dont. Are going down the side. I think its starting to pick up. I can sense, this is the calm before the storm. There are a few more cars. Along with joe, willie and me, we have Msnbc Contributor Mike Barnicle and Pulitzer Prizewinning editor, eugene robinson. So it looks like well be telling the story in a second about how New York and the tristate areas will be opening up. When is massachusetts going to allow more than 14 people to watch a Boston Red sox game in person . Theyre going up to about 17 people. The state is opening up the same way New York city is opening up. De blasio announced that the whole city would be open. But slowly but surely massachusetts and the city of boston is reopening as well. And part of it is annoying, because the traffic is increasing daily back to what the old volume used to be. It is annoying. Willie, you go to a game at fenway, this is not the owners, its the state of massachusetts. And instead of bat day, you have bubble day. And you go in, only 14 of you in the entire stadium and you have the John Travolta approved boy in the plastic bubble. Theyre being safe. Theyre being antiscience in the age of trump, we need to call out antiscience right now. Willie, there is literally a country mile, like, between seats, as we would say outside of meridian, mississippi, its just stupid. It doesnt make sense. It doesnt comply with science. It doesnt comply with What Fauci is saying or what the cdc is saying. Nast why im so excited that the tristate area is going, were going to listen to scientists. First 11 Red Sox fans get a hazmat suit. It is changing, though. Massachusetts has a good Vaccination Rate and youll see that change pretty soon. New york, new jersey, and connecticut have gotten together to ease most pandemic restrictions, they say, by may the 19th. A huge step for the former epicenter of the coronavirus. Houses of worship, restaurants, offices, retail and entertainment, cultural venues, Fitness Centers and personal care businesses all will be able to operate at full capacity for the first time in over a year. In New York, Governor Andrew Cuomo also lifted the curfews on Food And Beverage service and announced New York citys Subway System will resume 24hour Service on may 17th. So Governor Cuomo coming in, just a few days after mayor De Blasio in their fascinating relationship said it was going to be july the 1th. Governor cuomo comes in and says, lets actually make that may 19th, instead. May the 19th and opening it up, gene robinson, even talking about broadway. You want to open broadway, open broadway. Theyre talking about opening just about everything open. And if you look at science, it makes complete sense. When you go inside of a place, if you want if youre vaccinated, you want to be polite. You can wear a mask, if you want to. You can have social distancing inside where theres not a lot of ventilation. But for the most part, if youre vaccinated and most people that certainly we know are vaccinated, because theyve chosen to be, its time to get on with your lives. Your wife needs to have an Art Show now. Its been delayed for too long, gene robinson. Youre absolutely right about that, joe. And you know, its look, it is understandable that it is going to take people a bit of time to get back to feeling normal. I think they been pretty conservative about opening up and letting people gather, given the fact that the vaccines work so well. So once understands the caution and the cdc and the Fda And Everybody wants us to be they dont want us to go back to where we were last year this time, but we do need to move forward. We need to keep moving forward. And yes, that picture of New York city at 7 00 or 8 00 in the morning, with, as you said, the donkey cart. I mean, look at that that is not a Couple Donkey carts down there. That is not New York. Wheres the gridlock . Wheres my gridlock . Wheres my gridlock. You cant you know, its amazing. Its going to be a while before New York gets back to being full New York. Where the international tourists. Youre used to walking down The Street and hearing a babble of languages and frankly not being able to push your way through the crowd sometimes, especially around christmastime. And a lot of other countries arent doing that well. So were not going to have all of those people coming in. Its still not going to feel quite the same, but more normal than its feeling now. Lets get there, at least. Lets get there at least. And i look forward to the day when im driving up Sixth Avenue and screaming at the Cab Drivers that are cutting me off. Thats when you know, were back. The traffic on the west Side Highway at Rush Hour is very annoying again and i take that as a good sign that were coming back. The west Side Highway, the highway of death it used to be called. This is not operating in a vacuum, yet there are some people still acting like were acting in a vacuum. Where theyre saying, we need to wait. We have well over A Hundred people that needs to be vaccinated. Almost anybody that wants to be vaccinated can be vaccinated in the next couple of weeks, at least. Its a free country. If you want to smoke 12 packs of cigarettes a day, thats your business. And if people dont want to get a vaccine, that is their choice. But the rest of us, we dont have to sit on the sidelines for the rest of our life because they dont want to gate vaccine. 12yearolds and up will be able to get a vaccine. Why isnt it time to open this country up from Coast To coast. What you mentioned a the very end is what im worried about. I feel like he can go to preschool or other places without having to worry that hes going to catch it from someone who hasnt had the chaps to get the vaccine or refuses to. I dont know about you all, but in theory, im really about getting out there, but then you see people and youre like, what do i do. If we got a vaccine, it works, its widely available, its hard to see why theres any reason not to get open again. Kasie, we were talking about this Widening Split between Liz Cheney as the conservative and the nonconservatives in the republican party that are actually a member of a Personality Cult. Are those will the Personality Cult caucus be able to drive the conservative out of leadership . I think its probably looking more and more likely by the hour that theyre going to succeed in doing that or at least that theyll try harder than they did before. I think theres deeper support for cheney in the House Gop Conference than you have heard publicly. She has decided shes going to be the one to take those arrows in public. It has raised her profile incredibly here in the last couple of months. There are more people behind the scenes who are scared to do what she is doing, but who are actually on her side with this. I think the issue is Kevin Mccarthy who has decided he wants to be speaker of the house more than he wants anything else. And i know you know mccarthy. He wants to win, but also wants to be liked. Hell say whatever he thinks you want to hear sometimes and try to justify things. The only time i didnt find that to be true was right after January 6th, when initially he seemed really upset by what had happened, but clearly hes rebounded back to this. And i think Liz Cheney will likely have to decide. She had made this move, the house is where i want to be. In the trump era, there may not be room for her in the house. She passed up the chance to run for senate. She may have to go and run for President And Test things twha. I think its really up to her going forward, what she wants her future to be. Because right now, shes leading a perhaps quiet, but still significant chunk of people who saw what happened on January 6th and said, you know what, that is way too much, way too far for me. You were so, right, kasie, that Kevin Mccarthy, and an awful lot of people who have spoken with him since January The 6th off the record and hes and told people that Donald Trump is a joke and he understands why people are concerned with Donald Trump. He doesnt want Donald Trump to be the leader of his party, but he also says, i want to be the next speaker of the house, and this is the only way i can get there by continuing to bow down to Donald Trump. It is the height of cynicism, where what he said on the House Floor about January The 6th is what he believes and what he says in private, yet hes still sitting there pretending he still supports Donald Trump because he thinks its his only pathway to be the next speaker. And heres another thing, joe, that i think we learned about January 6th. Over the course of four years of Donald Trump being president , there was almost no One Wlold stand up to him and tell him if he was wrong. There were no leaders really Mitt Romney did it in the first impeachment trial, when he voted to impeach trump the first time. But what that allowed was that it created an enormous vacuum that was filled with disinformation online. And thats why republicans want Liz Cheney, just stop talking about it. We dont disagree, but lets not make this an issue. If you treat it this way, you wind up with things like what happened on January 6th. You have to Fight Fire With fire in the Information Age in which we live and republicans are clearly still deciding they dont have the guts or the interest in doing that. And Liz Cheney is taking the opposite approach and says, no, we need to stand up and make sure that we are taking this head on, not just being silent about it. Correct, correct. More politics now. Weve been talking the last few weeks about the gops new Love Hate Relationship with Big Business. A fight that Senator Mitch Mcconnell picked with companies last month. I found it completely discouraging to find a bunch of corporate ceos getting in the middle of politics. My advice to corporate ceos is to stay out of politics. Dont pick sides in these big fights. He did back off of those comments a little bit later. But it looks like the rift between Big Business and the gop is growing wider. Joining us now, Founder And Executive chair of the global independent Investment Banking Advisory firm, evercorps, roger altman. He was deputy u. S. Treasury secretary under former President Bill clinton. And roger, your latest piece in the Financial Times is entitled, a schism has opened between u. S. Businesses and republicans. You write in part, it began last month when cocacola, Delta Airlines with and other alarm companies condemned a republican sponsored law that would restrict voting in georgia. Republicans bitter backlash to corporate criticism about these laws shows a deep misunderstanding about modern companies and what makes them tick. To claim, as some conservatives have, that it is nonsensical for companies to oppose the law because it does not affect them is indirect. Nor is it true that by condemning it, companies have allied with the democrats and thus acted against their own profitmaking interesting and shareholders. Why . The simple reason is that companies, employees, and consumer have changed. The split between republicans and business has been brewing for years as Donald Trump and his followers have changed the party. Unless the republican party can return to factbased parties, it will groenl. How much, joe, do they want to lose in this false sort of propping up of one guy and his insurrection. Its really fascinating. And roger, we look at what happened in georgia with cocacola, Delta Airlines, these other big corporations. But you go back to January The 6th and all of the corporations, all of the lobbying groups, all of the people who were saying they could not support candidates who supported Donald Trumps insurrection. And you see this rift has been is starting to take place and has widened for quite some time. Just like and georgia is a great place to highlight this, because you look at the atlanta suburbs that have always been traditionally republican. They like a lot of these corporations are starting to break away from the madness of Donald Trump and his republican party. Joe, whats fascinating about this, i think, is two things. First. It shows how the trumpdominated party has changed and backed itself into a corner. And secondly, it shows, as i argued in the piece, they dont understand how companies and modern businesses have changed. For decades and decades, the national republican leadership and leaders of the Business Community were two peas in a pod. The Business Community saw the republicans as standing for things like lower regulations, lower taxes, smaller government. And they identify with that and they supported that and i say in the piece that a couple of years ago, pew did a Study Showing that of ceos who donated to political campaigns, 62 of them donated to republicans, only 19 to democrats. So this is a very longstanding historical alignment in the Business Community has been one of the pillars of sport for the republican party. Now georgia passes this law, texas is about to do the same thing, as you well know. It outrages, for good reason, civil rights leaders and others. Major companies starting with those in georgia like Delta Airlines and cocacola, but now spreading very widely have condemned the law, and that triggered the outburst and its ratcheting up day after day from mcconnell, rubio, just now cruz, bitterly attacking the republican Business Community. So now theyre at war with Each Other. And the second thing it shows is that the republicans dont get it in terms of how these companies work together. It is the millennial generation, those who today are 25 to 40 years old, who are the biggest sector of the population. Theyre about to be twothirds of the workforce by 2030. And they have much more active and progressive views on racial skpshs other political issues than predecessor generations. Theyre 43 nonwhite, 52 of them, according to pew, think that discrimination is the main reason Blacks Cant get ahead. And the point is, those employees would not accept these companies being silent on those new Voting Restrictions let alone supporting them. And these companies cannot afford to lose their employees, as were heading probably towards a labor shortage. Mike barnicle is with us and he has a question, roger. Roger, given who you are and what youve done with your life, i would assume that you would know ceos, people who were called by Mitch Mcconnell in the late Fall And Winter of 2017 prior to the big Tax Bill being passed, mcconnell calling them for support. Thats one element of what were talking about in terms of mcconnells hypocrisy. The other element and you just mentioned it, if you could talk to it a bit more is todays ceo here in may of 2021. They are presiding over a hugely sprawling Customer Base and a hugely changed employee base, as you just pointed out. And they have to be aware, constantly, every day of their actions on behalf of their company, and what their company represents to both their customers and their employees, not to Mitch Mcconnell. Right. Imagine, joe, you were ceo of a large employer in california and you were considering moving your headquarters as a number of californiabased companies have been doing to texas and now, texas is about to pass, its already passed one house in the texas legislature, its pending before the other and seems pretty obvious this bill will become law in texas, which is similar to the georgia law. And you announce tomorrow that youre moving your company to texas. Your employees will revolt over that, or at least a lot of them, and a lot of the most valuable and productive ones. So you cant afford that. So all of a sudden you were thinking of moving to texas and you really cant. Mcconnell thinks, these ceos need to back off, go back to your corner, let us do our stuff. But the Ceos Cant do that. Their employees wont tolerate it. And millennials are also the biggest consumer spenders. They spend more on consumer Products Consumer services than any other generation. And we see this in our own employees. Most of whom are millennials. They are much more active, much more progressive and much more attuned than my generation was. Not even close. The point is, these ceos, its not as if they suddenly decided, you know, were deciding to become democrats or weve woken up in the morning and we like Joe Biden. Its not that. They dont have a choice. Their employees would revolt and they would lose too many of them and their customers, some of them, at least, would back off. All right, roger altman, thank you so much for being with us. Great points that you bring up and great points that we all can read in the Financial Times. And gene robinson, i want to follow up on one thing that roger said that i think that the best example was when nike decided to make Colin Kaepernick their brand ambassador. A lot of people thought, i thought, okay, well thats a risky decision to make, because traditionally, it would have been seen as a really risky decision to make. Their stock went down the first week, because the Stock Market was concerned. But because of the demographic that roger is talking about, the explosion in millennials, because of their spending habits. And because theyre going to spend a lot more, and thaur theyre going to float from brand to brand to brand more than people our age. Nike made that decision and Nikes Stock went up. And gallup reported years after they selected him as brand ambassador. That their Brand Reputation went up, as well. So, again, this is an example of ceos. I dont want to break Anybodys Heart or shatter anybodys thoughts about how ceos act, but theyre looking at the Bottom Line. Because their shareholders are vicious. If the stock goes down, they get kicked out, theyre not going to do anybody any favors. Theyre always looking at the Bottom Line and these decisions are driven by a Bottom Line, capitalistic, cleareyed view of the world. Right, the Bottom Line in terms of Stock Performance and in sales or if thats what they do. And also, as roger said, the employees and what they think. Last i heard, nikes still selling a whole bunch of shoes, right . So that turned out to be a good decision for nike and what i think, Mitch Mcconnell and republicans in washington in general just write this off as virtue signaling. This is somehow superficial. They dont get this is baked into the way that capitalism works. And theyre doing this company is doing what their consumers and what their employees require them to do. And theyre not going to do otherwise. And its hard to get that message through. It may take a while, i guess, because i think Mitch Mcconnell mitch is just stunned that ceos, reliable republican constituency would be acting this way and it shows that hes kind of Out Of Touch with whats really happening in the business world. You look, mika, at, well, the final scene in mad men. And it was based on that coke commercial, like, teach the world to sing. And of course, counterculture, everybody would say, how repugnant that they have taken, you know, sort of woodstock generation, they wanted people to drink coke. And theyre always looking at that Bottom Line. So if people criticizing corporations for being, quote woke, thats because they believe their consumers are, quote, woke, and it all comes down to the Bottom Line. Still ahead on Morning Joe, americans give President Biden high marks on many major issues, but his handling of issues of immigration Border Security is not one of them. Well talk live to the secretary of homeland security, Alejandro Mayorkas about efforts to get things under control. And as we go to break, the White House released this Photo Yesterday of the president and first Ladys Visit with former president and First Lady last week in plains, georgia. How wonderful. Many online got a kick out of the camera angle, which makes the bidens look like theyre about 12 feet tall. Youre watching Morning Joe. Well be right back. Watching well be rightac bk. This is how you become the best youre the best by Joe Esposito [triumphantly yells] [ding] dont get mad. Get e trade. Are you managing your diabetes. Using fingersticks . With the new Freestyle Libre 2 system, a continuous glucose monitor, you can check your glucose with a painless, onesecond scan. And now with optional alarms, you can choose to be notified if you go too high or too low. And for those who qualify, the Freestyle Libre 2 system is now covered by medicare. 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Bounce forward, with comcast business. President biden announced yesterday he will raise the cap on the number of refugees admitted to the united states to 62,500 for this fiscal year after being criticized by fellow democrats last month for Holding Trump holding to trumpera levels. Biden said in statement, this erases the historically low number set by the previous administration of 15,000, which did not reflect americas values as a nation that welcomes and supports refugees. The biden administration will also reunite four migrant families this week who were separated under trumpera immigration policies. The group includes a child who was just 3 years old when his or her parents were deported. These families were a part of a Pilot Program for former president trumps Zero Tolerance policy, where more than 5,500 families were split apart. Yesterday, Msnbc Correspondent Jacob Soboroff spoke to brian, an 18yearold Migrant who is expected to be reunited with his mother this week after being separated from his family for more than three years. Its just a really cruel experience they just hope No One has to go through. They are doing a good job on protecting the kids, but i think theyre putting too much attention on protecting them physically, what about emotionally and everything that theyre feeling and that they go through. Youre protecting them, whatever theyre escaping from their countries or whatever they had to go through, but youre putting them into more pain by separating them from their families. According to the White House, 1,000 families are still separated, many of whom had their records lost in the trump years. Joining us now, u. S. Secretary of homeland security, Alejandro Mayorkas. Thank you for being on. Explain the process of trying to reunite these families. What steps are taken and what consideration are made to try to make this process happen . And i assume it wont be possible to reunite all the families . Thank you very much for having me back. This is our highest priority is to reunite these families. As we so powerfully saw, these are young people in their formative years. These are sometimes children as young as 3 years old. We are addressing the need and vulnerabilities not only of the children, but of course, their mothers, their fathers, the people that make up these families. It takes time to review records that quite frankly were in shambles when we inherited them. Inaccurate, incomplete. We need to verify identifies, find the families. Arrange for their travel. And importantly, develop a process where we can systemically bring them into this country safely and begin the healing process. We cannot do it alone. We rely on and work with communitybased organizations, Nonprofit Organizations who have been doing this work for three years, ever since the cruel and humane policies of the prior administration began. Its Willie Geist. As you know, there are Advocacy Groups out there who are also working to reunite families and theyre saying theyre doing more than dhs has done and these four reunifications are good news, but there are thousands more out there. Why is this such an arduous, difficult task . Its arduous and difficult for the reasons i expressed. And its good to be back and speak about something so critically important. Its difficult to find the families, its difficult to identify them, to verify their identification and its extremely difficult sometimes to overcome the fear that the prior administration instilled in them and have them come forward so we can indeed bring them into the united states under our humanitarian authorities. Our announcement of the reunification of four families is only the beginning, but its an important beginning to, in fact, publicize. Because the fact of this success, which we could not achieve without our Community Partners will hopefully reduce or eliminate the fear that other families have in coming forward and we will build confidence in the integrity of our effort and the sincerity of our commitment to reunite these families. So mr. Secretary, ways happening for the benefit of our viewers who are familiar with this story, but dont know specifically, what happens to the children once they were separated, as you say, under the previous administrations policy. Where are those kids right now. Where have they been living in the last several months, and in some cases years . Regrettably, the spectrum the range of conditions in which those children remain in the united states, if, in fact, they are here is quite rare. Some live with relatives because they dont have a sponsor in the united states. Some as jacob correctly noted have been separated for more than three years. And sometimes their parents are in the countries of origin, honduras, el salvador, guatemala. A tremendous distance away. Some of these children are in their most formative years, their most formative stages of development. Others are acutely vulnerable, by reason of their incredible youth. Three years of age, at the time of separation. Its extraordinarily cruel and inhumane, what occurred before us. Mr. Secretary, kasie hundredth is here with a question for you. Mr. Secretary, good to see you. Weve reported here that part of what occurred under the previous administration is that many of these records were lost. And that raises the possibility that many of these kids will never find their parents. That the people who we separated them from. So my question for you is, do we have a plan to make this right if we cant find the parents or the families of these children . What is the united states of america. Going to do to right this wrong . Its not about righting the wrong of the past, its about restoring the conscience of our government. Its about reuniting the families and were not ready to say that some children will never be reunited with their parents. Were just not ready to say that. You know, we heard loudly and clearly from some of the communitybased Organizations Yesterday when we first announced the reunification of these four families about the work that theyve been doing for three years in the trenches. These are heroic efforts by communitybased organizations. These are heroic efforts by council who represent these separated families and rye to vindicate their rights and bring healing to them. Were privileged to work alongside them. Our efforts are going to be unrelenting and were not prepared to say that any child will not be reunited with their parent. And mr. Secretary, wlabt The Crisis at the border right now. What is happening to handle that directly . Anything new planned to deal with the people coming here, coming with children, sending children alone. About five weeks ago, i said publicly that this challenge is a serious one, but we have a plan. And we know how to manage a situation like this. This is what we do. We are executing on our plan and it takes time. Now it is a month later. On march 28th, we had 5,767 children. On march 28th, the average stay was 133 hours. We have about 600 children in a Border Patrol Station now and the average length of stay is under 30 hours. Weve been executing our plan. We will continue to do so, and we have the situation with respect to the unaccompanied children under control. That doesnt mean that the challenge is behind us. Migration is a dynamic and perpetual challenge, but this is the work that we do. Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas, thank you very much. Well be, im sure, having you back soon to continue this conversation. And Coming Up, an update from overseas where the uks Boris Johnson is facing scrutiny on a number of fronts. Well run through those just ahead. Before we go to break, i want to shine a light on the bronxbased nonprofit, Grace Outreach. Whose programs help women further their educational goals and gain financial independence. A week from today, the group is holding its firstever virtual breakfast, featuring their incredible message and their incredible teachers. When you buy a ticket or a sponsorship, those funds go directly to the hundreds of women who enroll in Grace Outreach programs, theyre incredible programs with incredible teachers who are so committed. To learn more, you can visit graceoutreachbronx. Org. Plus, this week, how to bring tout best in others at work and why that matter for your career. That and much more at knowyourvalue. Com. Were back in a moment with more Morning Joe. Com. Were back in a moment with more Morning Joe. I think the sketchy website i bought this turtle from stole all of my info. Ooh, have you looked on the bright side . Discover never holds you responsible for unauthorized purchases on your card. giggling thats my turtle. Fraud protection. Discover. Something brighter. Im ordering some burritos oh, nice. Burritos . get a freshly made footlong from subway® instead. With crisp veggies on freshly baked bread. Just order in the App Ditch the burgers choose better, be better. Subway®. Eat fresh. My husband and i have never eaten healthier. Shingles doesnt care. I logged 10,000 steps today. Shingles doesnt care. I get as much fresh air as possible. Good for you, but shingles doesnt care. Because 1 in 3 people will get shingles, you need protection. 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Its hard for people to know how much their Accident Case is let our Injury Attorneys know he how much their Accident Cget the best result possible. I had no idea how much i wamy case was worth. C call the Barnes Firm to find out what your case could be worth. We will help get you the best result possible. Call one eight hundred, Eight Million british Prime Minister Boris Johnson has faced some recent scrutiny for some reported comments. Last week, johnson reportedly said hed rather, quote, let bodies pile high in their thousands than impose a third Coronavirus Lockdown. Those comments were allegedly made in the fall, shortly after the Prime Minister reluctantly ordered a second Coronavirus Lockdown amid a surge in cases. Both Downing Street and the Prime Minister have denied the allegations. Also breaking last week, reports of ethical allegations about the financing of the renovations done to johnsons flat at Downing Street. Britains Electoral Commission announced it would open a formal investigation into whether johnson secretly used political donations to pay for it. The Prime Minister has insisted he paid for the refurbishment out of his own pocket. Tensions and rivalries are nothing new to british politics. Joining us now, historian, author, and journalist, simon heffer, hes the author of the new book, the age of Decadence Decadence a history of britain. Thank you so much for being with us. Your book is set up in a way, it reminds me of barbara tuckmans breathtaking introduction to the guns of august. You show the extraordinary pageantry of queen victorias death, an empire at its height, and yet the fact that there are cracs beginning to show in that foundation. And that is what you study in this book. Tell us about that remarkable time and what lessons we can learn from it today. Well, my book begins in 1880. Britain is the most powerful nation on earth. And i think many people believe around the world that british power declines because of the money that we lost in the great war. We bankrupted ourselves in the 191418 war, but in fact our decline began long before that. We were overtaken by both America And Germany in the 1890s, in terms of per capita prosperity. And it was this paradox of a nation, as you say, it was a great empire with great tradition, history, and pageantry, but we were just incapable of keeping it up. And one thing that we did that the germans and the americans didnt do in these 20 years before the Greste War is we rested on our laurels, we sat back and stopped investing and spent money on Decadent Pastimes and decadent indulgences and its one reason we found it so hard to keep up. You illustrate so vividly and i think tragically the contrast between the decadence of the wealthiest In Britain and across the British Empire and the poor, who as you note, even went shoeless and the contrasts were so great that the industrial riots and the unrest that you describe seemed inevitable, didnt it . Yes, years before the great war, which if you watch a like downton abbey. It is a endless Garden Or Tea party. Unfortunately it wasnt like that. We had tremendous Industrial Relations Problems for the reasons that youve said. Our poor people working in factories and mills and keeping the British Empire going were not getting increase in their income. Dividends went up by 10 between 1,900 and 1910 and wages went downtown by a quarter of a percent. And these people saw their bosses driving around in bigger and bigger rollsroyces and building bigger and bigger houses and mock the Oldaristock Rassy and their way of life. And it caused enormous pressure for a Welfare State to be established, when the liberal government at the time began to do before the great war. But we had this paradox of enormous wealth and enormous poverty. Mind you i think that was quite usual, including in america at the time. Most historians trace the industrial Revolution And Americas emergence on the World Stage as maybe the preeminent industrial power starting around the 1880s, that is a time period that youre examining through the beginning of the great war. What could have been done differently, what could the british leaders have done differently, because you are right, in america and i suppose likely In Britain as well, most of us have grown up be taught that it was exhaustion from two World Wars and a great depression that brought an end to the British Empire. But you actually again show the cracks in that foundation starting much earlier. Well we have the Industrial Revolution first. And the generation that had that revolution and the one after it built up huge businesses, we were the Manufacturing Kings in the world in 1850s and the 1860s, but that is the generation after that, weve worked hard for two generations. What we want to do now is have a good time. We want to build nice big Stately Homes like Thearistock Rassy and we want to get a nice new cars by mr. Rolls and royce and drive around it and the germs and the americans werent doing that. They were working much harder than they were and investing money. German industrial plants were far advanced compared to that In Britain which was still stuck in the 1880s. So that is what we did wrong. We took our eye off the ball. We thought we could just have a good time. And it he was decadent, not just in the peoples personal behavior, not just people Going On long holidays and getting up at 10 00 in the morning and not doing a proper days work which is true of many of those in the upper end of the spectrum. But we didnt govern or empire well. We treated people in a patronizing way. And they had no love for us. Look at what happened in india, which was a tragedy in The End. And so we didnt take that old maxim to heart that what we have we hold. When we decided to take our eye off of the ball and we lost it. Mike barnicle is with us and has a question. We would be interested in your view of britain today. You have left britain has left the European Union, you have a Prime Minister seemingly approaching Trumpian Heights in terms of duplicity, the Royal Family has its own issues, Northern Ireland has a problem on the border because of the European Union departure, scotland is hinting it might want to seek independence. Britain today, where does it stand . Well the one thing i would disagree you on is the Royal Family, if you see the reaction of our queen to the death of her husband a month ago, she was back at work last week. The Royal Family is actually one of the few things holding this country together at the moment. Our Prime Minister has a long record of regrettable behavior in his personal life. And i was astonished and i speak as somebody who is a natural supporter of his party, i was astonished that his party chose him to lead it given his track record. Scotland doesnt know what currency it would have or allowed into the European Union or if it became independent. A lot of this is fantasy politics. As for Northern Ireland, theyed 100 years of Existence Yesterday and part of the problem is weve left the European Union and the republic of ireland, im not sure one day ireland will reunite and maybe as part of a federation of the British Isles, i dont know. But it cant go on like this. One thing im pretty sure of is we got out of the European Union just in time. Theyve had a catastrophic pandemic. Theyve taken every man for himself approach to the pandemic. Which has caused great internal strife and when it is over, theyre going to have a civil punch up, not a Civil War but theyre going to get very unhappy with Each Other and im glad were out of it. It is interesting, mr. Heffer, you tell the story of Captain Oats. I remember following Football News after David Beckham missed a Penalty Kick and broke down weeping. He was compared disparagingly to Captain Oats who in a failed expedition of the South Pole of course to not be a burden on the others who would also perish said the quote was im just going outside and i may be some time. And of course walked out to his death. And you brought up the story. I thought it was fascinating. You brought up the story as it was a opportunity for the Prime Minister and others to clutch their breasts and say see, the british character is still strong, it is still selfsacrificing and still with us. Talk about the Back Drop of that story and why the relevance to this epic. Well when the news got back from the South Pole in early 1913 that scott had been found dead with his party, and they read in Scotts Journal about Captain Oats, it was a very bad time in british history. Not only was there this enormous industrial unrest between 1910 and 1913, but there was a big fight over irish rule and over votes for women. Was very blinkered and believed that women were not fit to have the vote and was supported by most of the house of commons and probably all of the house of lords. So there was a lot of Strife And Difficulty Going On in the British Isles at that time and there was a massive crisis when the veto had been removed from the house of lords and this failure of scotts and the personal era was Captain Oats in particular was harvested by politicians to say we are a great people, of real Valor And Courage and determination. Thats why it was exploited to roundly and indeed we showed that to a great except in the terrible war that followed just over a year later. And i just want to read the final from Captain Scott and this is how you end the chapter on the the failed expedition. His final journal entry, we took risks, we knew we took them, things have come out against us and therefore we have no cause for Complaint But Bow to the will of providence, determined still to do our best to the last. The new book is the age of decadence, the age of britain, 1880 to 1940. Thank you for coming on this morning. Up next, a push to get americans vaccinated including an expansion of eligibility that could soon include adolescents. Plus Liz Cheney isnt letting the threat of losing a spot in leadership stop her from pushing back against Donald Trumps Big Lie. Her new remarks ahead on Morning Joe. Were back in 90 seconds. Were back in 90 seconds we still want to be very careful and we still have a lot of work to do but if youre among vaccinated people, party hard. Party hard. Invite people over to your house, do familyrelated things. Get vaccinated. If there was ever a time to want to incentivize people to get vaccinated it is now. Member of Biden Covid19 Advisory Board with that optimistic message on msnbc last night. Good Morning And Welcome to Morning Joe. It is tuesday, may 4th. May the fourth be with you. And along with joe and willie and me we have to kick things off. It is like hey steve who said that. The host of Politics Nation and president of the national Action Network Reverend Al Sharpton. Lets get right to the news. New york, new Jersey And Connecticut are banding together to ease most pandemic restrictions by may 19th, a big step for the former epicenter of the virus. You could imagine that. Houses of worship, restaurants, offices, retail and entertainment cultural venues as well as Fitness Centers and personal care businesses will all be able to operate at full capacity for the first time in over a year. The decision comes as more people get vaccinated and need to stimulate the economy, the broadway shows could also resume on may 19th, though shows will most likely not be ready for a Curtain Call so soon as they need time to rehearse and implement safety protocols but they could start. Large outdoor events such as fireworks and parades and State Fairs could also resume just in time for summer with Capacity Restrictions being lifted, businesses are still expected to follow federal social distancing requirements but could get around it if the businesses require a proof of vaccination or a negative covid test. That is pretty awesome. Yeah, it is. In New York, Governor Andrew Cuomo lifted curfews on Food And Beverage and announced New York City Subway will resume 24 Hour Service on may 17th. The mta will continue the cleaning and disinfecting regimen for the trains. In announcing the sweeping changes, cuomo said life should be returning to normal. Youre vaccinated and it is an incentive to be vaccinated. You could have a normal life. Meanwhile new Jersey Governor Phil Murphy announced new initiative as part of Operation Jersey Summer to encourage state residents to get vaccinated. The governor tweeted last week that were launching or shot and Beer Program to encourage new jerseyans ages 21 and over to get vaccinated. Any new jerseyan who gets their first Vaccine Dose in the month of may and takes their Evacuation Card to a participating brewery, will get a free beer. That is very, very jersey. In the words of sir paul mccartney, willie, what is wrong with that, id like to know. Here we go again. No, it is smart. And i love the idea also, weve been complaining about it for a couple of weeks on this show, but if you have a vaccination and youre really looking at the numbers and looking at science, all of this makes perfect sense. And by the way, i was at an event the other night and, like, we were outside and everybody was vaccinated. And theyre doing this elbow touch. And im like have you been vaccinated. Come in for the hug, baby. Okay. Whoa whoa whoa, calm down. Just relax. Im just saying, at some point like we follow the science and the science tells us if im vaccinated, and your vaccinated, we could go to the yankees games, up in fenway theyre only allowed 17 people in per game. Next week theyre going to allow 24 people in per game. But you look at what the tristate area is doing and theyre opening up these games. It is like we all live in texas and are rangers fans now. In texas it was a great Test Case over the last month to two months when there was so much fear about what was going to happen there. It hasnt come to pass. Actually their cases and hospitalizations have remained level or even dipped a little bit. So listen, this is think about where we were sitting here in march and april of last year, even a year ago right now in early may, we didnt know where this would end. Im not saying this is ended by any stretch of the imagination, but the fact that life is back open again, you could feel it in New York city. I went to dinner on Sunday Night and sat outdoors, the tables were packed and they were distanced but all full. It felt like life again and i think that is what you feel in New York and new Jersey And Connecticut and texas and all of the states that have taken these steps, is that weve done the work, weve spent the time doing the things that we needed to do, stayed in our homes separated from Each Other, deprived ourselves of a lot of things and when it is safe because people are getting vaccinated so we need to continue to do that. But when it is safe we could step back into our real lives. And another piece of exciting news, yesterday the u. S. Vaccination campaign will expand to millions more people. According to federal officials the fda is preparing to authorize use of the pfizer buy on tech for those of 12 by early next week. The cdc advisory panel is likely to meet the following day to review the Clinical Trial data and make recommendations for the Vaccine Use in adolescents. Several weeks ago pfizer reported none of the adolescents who received the vaccine developed symptomatic infections, a sign of significant protection. So joe, were talking about 12 to 15yearolds here. This is massive implications for schools reopening this fall. Yes. Massive implications. I could tell you also in our family, and you know this, andrew is a diabetic so we were concerned about that. But jack as you remember was a preemie. And hes healthiest kid in the world, hes going to grow up and be like mute um bow, he just keeps growing. Hes really tall. Hes 12 and hes 6 feet tall. And hes unbelievably healthy but he has upper respiratory issues. And at beginning of covid, the doctors said this is one the one you have to worry about most. He got covid and thank god he got through it okay. But we were very nervous. We want to start our summer plants and send him to camp, because he had covid before, but there are so many questions about immunity. So these shots for kids 12 and over, what a great relief. Not only for our family, but for millions of americans and your right also, for schools because we do understand that the younger you go, like when youre in elementary school, the numbers are so small in elementary schools that this really all but guarantees that every school is going to be open unless you just have people that dont want to go back to work. And yes, ill just say that. Willie, this is really great news. And an example of how americans could getoit and enjoy their summers. It is extraordinary, mika, that the vaccine was developed this fast for adults was one thing and now that theyve moved this quickly for children as well. 12 to 15 to get the schools reopened. It is incredible what science has done for us and were all grateful and i felt it yesterday when the needle went into my arm, complete gratitude for the people that got us here. Still ahead, how the biden administration is keeping up the push for vaccination. A look at the progress and in some Cases Procrastination when it comes to americans getting their shots. Youre watching Morning Joe. Well be right back. Orning joe. Well be right back. I brought in ensure max protein, with thirty grams of protein. Those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks sighs wearily here, ill take that excited yell woohoo ensure max protein. With thirty grams of protein, onegram of sugar, and nutrients to support immune Health Abbot sonic the light. It comes from within. It drives you. And it guides you. To shine your brightest. As you charge ahead. Illuminating the way forward. A light maker. Recognizing that the impact you make comes from the energy you create. Introducing the allelectric lyriq. Lighting the way. Im morgan, and theres more to me than hiv. More love,. More adventure,. More community. But with my Hiv Treatment,. Theres not more medicines in my pill. 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Tell your doctor if you have Kidney Or Liver problems, including Hepatitis B or c,. Or if you are, may be, or plan to be pregnant. Your doctor may prescribe a different medicine. Than dovato if you plan to be pregnant or if pregnancy is confirmed during the first trimester. Dovato may harm your unborn baby. Use effective birth control. While taking dovato. Most common Side Effects are headache, nausea,. Diarrhea, trouble sleeping, tiredness, and anxiety. So much goes. Into who i am. Hiv medicine is one part of it. Ask your doctor about dovato i did. My plaque psoriasis. The itching. The burning. The stinging. My skin was no longer mine. My psoriatic arthritis, made my joints stiff, swollen. Painful. Emerge tremfyant™. With tremfya®, adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. Can uncover clearer skin and improve symptoms at 16 weeks. Tremfya® is the only medication of its kind also approved for adults with active psoriatic arthritis. Serious allergic reactions may occur. Tremfya® may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms or if you had a Vaccine Or Plan to. Tremfya®. Emerge tremfyant™. Janssen can help you explore Cost Support options. Oh when june tremfya®. Emerge tremfyant™. Hit that guy yes wait i dont remember that its in season 4 dont tell me you havent seen it i watched season 3. You wont stay caught up for long unless you keep watching the best shows from hulu, peacock, starz, showtime, and hbo max, all year long. Just say watchathon into your Voice Remote to add a Channel Or Streaming service and stay caught up. Welcome back, the federal government is rethinking its current Vaccine Distribution efforts as the number of americans signing up to receive their shots has gone down. The u. S. Is now at the lowest average of people receiving their first dose since february, now under 1. 1 Million each day. Just three weeks ago an average was at 2 Million per day. According to politico, the biden administration was caught off guard by The Steep Drop and is pivoting from using Mass Vaccination sites to refrigerated vans and Community Health clinics and doortodoor campaigns in rural communities. If you hear the Ice Cream Truck coming into your neighborhood, get ready. That is a great way to do it too. Get the Alcohol Swabs out because theyre coming. So rev, i know with a lot of Trump Supporters we heard at the beginning that there were Trump Supporters that were reluctant. What about efforts in communities people of color who have long historically been according to numbers been a little more concerned about vaccines. What kind of progress is being made in those communities . There has been some real progress. Though there is still a lot of work to be done. The hesitancy in many of the africanamerican communities and other communities is based on a lot of bad history, bad engagements with it being experimented on and it took a lot of efforts from communities leaders and Faith Leaders working with government officials, people like dr. Fauci speaking to Faith Leaders and many initiatives that we are started. Reverend Franklin Richardson and others were leading campaigns, calvin butts and i started one nationwide. And i think it reaped dividends. I think when people saw that many of us that were highprofile would be vaccinated and that over a period of time we were fine, we were healthy, it gave them a sense of relaxation. So were seeing the impact there. But the question also was having access and i think the biden administration are correct in a lot of the problems that we have with making the actual vaccine accessible in communities of color where a lot of Health Facilities were not there. So when do you think churches are going to start opening up to such a degree, we could come here and preach on Sunday Morning, rev, how long until that happens . Were looking forward to churches opening up. I think well probably be seeing that in the near future and im certainly very anxious to see you come to church after you drop by the otb and if you do well, you could come and bring your offering with you. Well i always come. And i give a Sunday Morning prayer. Willy and i met on the ponies. We have the preakness Coming Up in a couple of weeks. Maybe the week before lay down a bet and then go. Not usually a Back Row Baptist but ill sit on the Front Row, rev, when youre preaching. Well im saving a seat for you. And by the way, willie and James Brown share a birthday so my next book is going to be from James Brown to Willie Geist and all in between. Coming up, making the Big Lie even bigger. How Donald Trump is trying to whitewash his leading role in januarys domestic terror attack. Morning joe is back in a moment. Ng joe is back in a moment not everybody wants the same thing. Thats why i go with liberty mutual they customize my Car Insurance so i only pay for what i need. cause i do things a little differently. Hey, ill take one, please wait, this isnt a Hotdog Stand . No, cant you see the sign . Wet. Teddy. Bears. Get ya wet teddy bears onehundred percent wet, guaranteed or the next one is on me only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. In the Romo Household we take things to the max oh yeah honey, you still in bed . Yep bye thats why we love Skechers Max cushioning footwear. Theyve maxed out the cushion for extreme comfort. Its like walking on clouds big, comfy ones oh yeah experience capability, crafted by lexus. The remarkable gx and lx. Lease the 2021 gx 460 for 529 a month for 36 months. Experience amazing, at your lexus dealer. Are the color cartridges in your printer ready for another School Year . Whats cyan mean . It means cyanora honor roll. The epson ecotank. No more cartridges. It comes with an incredible amount of ink. Just fill and chill. To politics now where republican congresswoman Liz Cheney is standing strong against potential retaliation from her own party. For being a republican. It comes after her continued criticism of former president trumps false claims that the 2020 election was stolen from him. Gop leadership has recently warned the wyoming congresswoman that her remarks are a distraction amid attempts to unite the fractured party her remarks . Hold on. Hold on. About democracy. Let me just ask a question. First of all, you have Liz Cheney and then you have the insurrection. What do you think is more of a distraction . Liz cheney saying the right thing, being a Republican And Sticking to a conservative beliefs as a true republican, or hundreds, maybe even thousands of people assaulting our capitol, killing people using the American Flag To Torture Capitol Cops running around in the Halls Screaming where is Nancy Pelosi and Mike Pence. They had a noose. I would be distracted by that if i were a republican who cared about my party and cared about my country these are the most dishonest people ive ever seen in politics, honestly. There is not really a a close second to that. And that is where we are. And the lies unfortunately, that, you know, Keb Mccarthy called out, he called out Donald Trump several weeks ago or several months ago and then backed down. Lindsey graham called out Donald Trump. Distraction. And then backed down because politically their cowards. And it just, mika, it just continues. And the thing is, it is one thing if Donald Trump stopped spreading the Big Lie. It would be one thing if he stopped trying to undermine american direction, if he was stopping to try to thwart the Rule Of Law and ignoring a federal judge after another federal judge saying there was no evidence of widespread Voter Fraud that would have any impact on the outcome of the election. But mika, he just continues. He keeps spreading the Big Lie. Hes using his little voice on his little stages with his little band going bump, bump whenever they think he says something interesting and he also has press releases and he again called the 2020 election fraudulent trying to coop the saying for himself. Liz cheney tweeted that the 2020 president ial election was not stolen. Anyone who claims it was is spreading the Big Lie, turning their back on rule of Law And Poisoning our democratic system. That is the most boring statement and so unbelievably just plain and simple. There is nothing controversial about it, willie. And what Liz Cheney just said right there, i really, i find it hard to believe that any organization that calls itself a News Organization would ever allow anyone who voted to overturn the Election Results on January 6 would ever let them on without asking the first question, do you think the 2020 election was stolen . Do you think Joe Biden is the rightful president and was legally elected President Of The United States . And if any News Organization doesnt ask everyone that votes to undermine American Democracy On January 6, and continue to spread the Big Lie, then they are absolutely shameless and no News Organization and yes, they are complicit. This is an ongoing threat to American Democracy. I would like to say that happened on January 6 and it is over and lets be more prepared going forward. We cant do that because like 175, 180 people still roaming around the halls of congress who spread the Big Lie and take it out across america and spreading that Big Lie. Every bit as much of a lie as other monstrous Big Lies throughout history. Every bit as much of a Big Lie if you love American Democracy, and if you cherish madisony an democracy. If you were american who love this is country, loves Madison Democracy and loves the united states constitution. The Members Of Congress do appear on those shows all of the time and they are not asked that question. They should be. And if they ever are asked theyll say were just asking questions, we have a right to know. Well those questions were asked before courts, before Election Boards in states across the country, many run by republicans who came back and said Joe Biden won the election. The statement that may cost Liz Cheney her position as Gop Leadership chair, the 2020 president ial election was not stolen. She might lose her job over saying that statement of fact outloud. And cnn was first to report that a conference in georgia, she said we cannot embrace the notion the election is stolen. It is a poison in the bloodstream of our democracy. We cannot whitewash what happened on January 6 or perpetuate trumps Big Lie. It is a threat to democracy. What he did on January 6 is a line that cannot be crossed. Two Nbc News sources confirm her reported comments are in fact acrats. She pead the remarks during an after the Record Interview with former House Speaker Paul ryan at the annual retreat for the conservative Think Tank american enterprise institution. Lets bring in anna palmer, from the daily beast and Matt Lewis and correspondent for the Washington Post philip bump. And you cover congress every day, is Liz Cheney going to lose her job in it sounds like there is a Majority Push to oust her . I agree with that. I think that shes close to losing her job probably than she ever has been before. Right now congress is on recess. But i would not be surprised if you see lawmakers in the house republican Party Call for a Snap Election and clearly over the last week a Half Weve seen House Minority Leader Kevin Mccarthy say hes not going to say stand in the way of that. I dont think youll find any defenders. When you think at the house republican leadership they feel like she is not the messenger that they want right now and theyre already looking to who could potentially replace here which we reported on in this mornings newsletter. Matt lewis, it is laughable through the years looking at big spending republicans who are been setting record deficits, record debts, defining who real conservative is and who a real conservative is not. Certainly these washington republicans have been anything but conservative through the years if you just look at deficits and the debt and how they have wrecked us fiscally. But now theyre defining conservatism in Say Way that people that ran up massive deficits are now complaining about deficits and claiming that Mitt Romney and Liz Cheney are insufficiently conservative. I mean, you talk about a Personality Cult where ideas and ideology just doesnt matter any more. That is this Know Nothing republican Party Isnt it . Absolutely. A few years ago conservatives and republicans quit caring about what we consider the left versus the right or Progressive Versus conservatism and it switched to really Populism Or Nationalism. Insiders versus outsiders and if that is the paradigm, if that is the contrast, then they call people like Liz Cheney and Mitt Romney insiders and theyre the enemy. But look, joe, i find it so interesting, as you know there is this classic conservative book in the cannon of conservative economic philosophy called the road to serfdom and written by hayek and he said it is a totalitarian regime and the worst get on top. Hes thinking the soviet union. But the republican party is a place where the worst get on top. You have Marjorie Taylor Greene raising 3. 2 Million in the first quarter. People like Matt Gaetz who are as of now welcomed in polite company and then you have Mitt Romney, a decent conservative guy getting booed in utah and Liz Cheney is having the guts to stand up and do something that most of the men in the republican Party Wouldnt do and just frankly be honest about the Big Lie and now shes being drummed out of her position. It is the worst getting on top. The incentives are all perverse. It is obviously a corrupt and dysfunctional organization. Coming up, is teaching about americas darker chapters somehow unpatriotic . A look at the Fever Pitch of controversy surrounding education and u. S. History. Morning joe is back in a moment. A moment when you buy this plant at walmart, they can buy more plants from metrolina greenhouses so abe and art can grow more plants. 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Find amex offers to save on the brands you love. One of the many things you can expect when youre with amex. She thought that squirrel on your brandnew at Screen Tv was an actual squirrel. Leave it. Purchase protection for what you didnt see coming one of the many things you can expect when youre with amex. Hey google, turn up the heat. So youre a small business, or a big one. You were thriving, but then. Oh. Ah. Okay. Plan, pivot. How do you bounce back . You dont, you bounce forward, with serious and reliable internet. Powered by the largest Gig Speed Network in america. But is it secure . Sure its secure. And even if the power goes down, your connection doesnt. So how do i do this . You dont do this. We do this, together. Bounce forward, with comcast business. Welcome back to Morning Joe. It is 35 past the hour. Joining us now, professor at harvard university, Pulitzer Prize winning Author Anet gordon reed. Shes back with her new book entitled on juneteenth and managing editor of the atlantic, julian white, this month the magazine is running another installment of the Inheritance Theory and featured a chapter from her new book. It is good to have you both this morning. So annette, i want to bring up this debate that has been Going On and get your thoughts on it and also as it relates to your book and our history and us coming to terms with our history. And that is that the debate 1619 versus 1776 debate. I remember having you on for Tom Ricks Book and i asked you about jefferson, how do we balance the fact that his words may have freed more people than anybody else and yet he was in many ways a deplorable human being so saw many of his slaves as little more than livestock. And you said we balance it. Explain, how do we balance that . Well, back to the question about 1619 and 1776, and jeffersons involvement, obviously jefferson comes into this as the drafter of the american declaration of independence. But history is a combination of good and bad and you have to think about the things that were useful in the context of things that were not so useful, things that were to our development. 1619 and 1776, you framed it as a debate. I dont i know there is a debate because people could make a debate out of anything. But both of them go together in my book. 1619 right. It explains the society we had in 1776 in the south, a Slave Society and to the north a society that had slaves. So it is the beginning of a culture but it wasnt the beginning of the american nation which we like to think of as 1776. The americans thought that the declaration did that, creates the united states of america. So here is what you write in the book about the importance of origin stories. Quote, origin Stories Matter for individuals, groups of people and for nations. They inform our sense of self, telling us what kind of people we believe we are, what kind of nation we believe we live in. They usually carry at least a hope that where we started might hold the key to where we are in the present. We could say then that much of the concern with origin stories is about our current needs and desires usually to feel good about ourselves, not actual history. And i wonder, especially since this is sort of a big debate at a Fever Pitch right now, about the importance of teaching about our darker chapters. Well you have to do both of those kinds of things. You have to present a realistic picture of life. Because we know no human being, no country, nothing is all perfect. And if youre it is like children who think of their parents as perfect, when their little and it is not until you get to be an adult and sometimes have kids of your own that you realize, these are people who were struggling along and you love them nevertheless but you get to see them as real human beings, who they actually were and i think it is the same thing in the life of a country. It does no good to pretend this is all Sweetness And Light and that there havent been tremendously terrible things that have happened in the past. But as we were saying at the top, at the beginning of this this, is that we have to find some way to balance that and that is what life is about. So, annette, why do you believe it is so difficult for us engage in just basic dialect thinking, that two things could be true at one time, why is it that so many run to their corners not only on campus and off campus and you have to choose an either or. It is either 1776 or those in that camp will say or you have to choose 1619. This should not be difficult. Our Origin Story as you say is complicated and it involves not only those two dates but many others that we havent traditionally taught in american history. Mmhmm. Well it is an eternal question. Why the binary thinking. But it is a fault. It is a difficulty, because we live in a complicated society. The united states is a diverse, whether people like it or not, a multicultural society. We dont have were not supposed to be based upon a notion of blood, we are based upon an idea, that is what we like to say, and it is very hard for people it seems to come together around this particular ideas and we fall back into our respective corners and fight as youre suggesting. But the only thing we could do is try to bring some sim sem blens of Order And Hope people realize that we have things more in could have been than things that divide. It is Willie Geist. It is interesting to listen to the conversation over what should be taught in school. Which history should be taught and as your alluding to here, it can be both. So there are many people in what has become a cultural war who view this as a concession. If we allow 1619 then were giving up our heritage, were giving up and changing the american story. What would you say to those people and what would you say to school districts around the country that are grappling with this right now . I would say that youre learning american history. Learning all aspects of american history. It is possible, as i said, to talk about 1619 as the beginning of enslavement in english colonies. But then realize that we come to 1776 and there is this Announcement Declaration of independence that all men are created equal and it creates a dilemma. The american dilemma begins with that words because we know that at the time there was chattel slavery. And what weve had since that time is try to make those ideals real. So i think there is a way to do this without either or or suggesting that you hide things that were not perfect. Were on i said yesterday, were struggling. Were on a road to someplace. There is no perfection at this moment. But were trying to get better and better and that is what i think that is what history teaches us. There is no End Point that is going to be perfect. But it is the process, change over time. And you make decisions about how you want to change and that is where we are at this particular moment. And jillian, it is great to have you on because much to the point of what were talking about this morning, the atlantic has the Inheritance Series and of Course Annette is a part of that. Yeah. Absolutely. So the Inheritance Series is a multiyear exploration in black history. Annettes piece is such a Core Part of the chapter, chapter two which launches today and it focused on the idea of place and so much of what annette just said really resonates with why we chose that as the second chapter. Understanding where you came from, understanding the stories that have been kept from you is such an important part of understanding who we are as a people, how we fit into this country, how we fit into the world. And keeping the people from their history is truly a form of oppression. And that is what were trying to undo with this project. Were trying to solve the issue that so many people are having of growing up for how many years thinking that they understand one form of american history and now having a really hard time swallowing that they probably only got a tiny percentage of that. And the truth of the Inheritance Project and Americas History is that black people and people of color have been there all along. And there is no american history without fully understanding the good, the bad and the ugly of the history of this country. And annette is truly the expert at being able to circus those things in tandem. For sure. And i love that Morning Sun on jillian making the shot heavenly. Both the book and article, annette, you make the point that even language could be used to promote difference in prejudice and you write in part the fiction that has africanamericans naturally speaking in a particular way or unable to learn a language slyly promotes the notion that blacks are somewhat less than human in their inablts to master a human trait. The capacity engage in complex communication. At the very least, the ideas about blacks and language serve as a means to convey the supposed gulf that exists between the races. Im wondering if you could expound upon that given that there are words that we cant even say. There are language on both sides that are causing huge problems in our society today. Well, im talking in that section about the fact that black speech is always rendered in a particular way, the speech of enslaved black people is rendered in a particular way. And the chapter that is excerpted in the atlantic talks about Esther Monaco who was a black arab who came with Spanish Explorers to the area that was texas back in the 1500s. Were talking about 1619, hes in the Texas Region in the 1520s. And he was the translator between the spanish and the native people that they encountered. And that is because he had a talent for language and i was just wondering in that excerpt about my childhood when i learned about enslaved people, what a difference it would have made to think about Esther Monacos story, that he was there in texas and he was relied upon as a translator because he had a talent for language versus the idea that a black incapacity, inability to deal with language. And thinking about Sojourner Truth who was dutch and born in upstate New York and spoke dutch first but the language is in the same kind of dialect for every enslaved africanamerican and that idea, i think it put some sort of notion of distance between blacks and whites. And something so simple as language could be used to promote an idea of inferiority and capacity. And i have a question. Oh, go ahead. I was going to ask you jillian then if you could go to annette. Im shocked still in 2021, even watching progressive race conscience, white commentators, when they talk about a black politician emerging on to the scene, theyll be going down a Laundry List of things and ill go dont say, dont say, dont say, dont say it and articulate still in 2021 comes up as if this is somehow a revelation that a person of color is articulate. Which actually goes to, again, even today some of those prejudices that have been with us for hundreds of years. Yeah. Absolutely. Well joe, this is my exact question for annette. Whether or not the roots of that kind of sentiment, the desire to constantly be surprised that a black person is articulate, that a black person is worldly and has the same vocabulary, the same sense of the world and the same understanding of things as a white person. This is where we see that really emerge. In the writing of history . Yeah. Exactly. I think you go back to the narratives of enslaved people, i look at old newspapers, from the 18th century and whenever they have a black person speaking it is always in that kind of language. It is designed to ridicule them. It is not about any kind of notion of cultural authenticity, it is more an effort to put them down and you see that from the very, very beginning. And there is no reason black people had all kinds of acsents and the more telling thing is you dont do that for whites. Whites could have this ideosyncratic pronunciation, but you dont see white speech rendered in the way that they supposedly speak. So unconscious things, for some people, unconscious things keep this is whole system going. And it is a kind of thing that you have to point out and people have to work at in order to make changes. So thanks so much. Jillian white, thank you and i really need to talk to your Lighting Director because she looks beautiful. I could use that glow on the show. The Morning Sun Coming Up. Thank you so much. We greatly appreciate it. And professor at harvard university, annette gordon reed. Thank you. Tomorrow were going to continue the week long Morning Joe residency for her new book on juneteenth and please look at the atlantics great Inheritance Series and again thank you so much jillian for being with us. All right. Up next, the st. Louis cardinal played lights out baseball last night. Literally. Well explain that. Next on Morning Joe. Morning s at the speed of now. Next Day And Twoday shipping nationwide, and returns right from the doorstep. Its a whole new world out there. Lets not keep it waiting. From prom dresses to workouts its a whole new world out there. And new adventures you hope the more you give the less theyll miss. But even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. Although uncommon, up to 1 in 5 survivors of meningitis will have long term consequences. Now as youre thinking about all the vaccines your teen might need make sure you ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination. Biden when i think about climate change, the word i think of is jobs. Vo and these arent just the jobs of tomorrow. Theyre the jobs of right now. Good paying jobs to modernize our infrastructure. In manufacturing. Construction. Engineering. Theyre in our cities. In our suburbs. And our small towns. We take on climate change. 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Tell your doctor your medical history, Muscle Or Nerve conditions. And medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious Side Effects. Most patients may pay as little as 0 for botox®. So, text to see how you can save. Botox® has been preventing headaches and migraines before they even start for 10 years. So, ask your doctor about botox® today. Were on the right side and the lights have gone out here at the ballpark. Im not sure i have ever seen this before. Are you kidding me . Two outs in the ninth inning and the lights go out at busch stadium. Oh, my. How long are we going to be here for this . Im not sure i have ever seen it. There you go. Back on again. Thats amazing. Wow. That they came back on that quickly. Somebody just tripped on the plug. That was the scene in st. Louis last night. Cardinals holding on to a onerun lead with the mets in the ninth inning, two out, runner on base, when the lights went out completely at busch stadium. They were able to hang on for the 65 win. Tonight Jacob Degrom takes the mound for the mets. Earned his first pitcher of the Month Award in april, posted 0. 51 e. R. A. , only four walks, 16 hits allowed in 35 innings with 5 starts. Opponents hit just. 136 against him. Absolutely absurd numbers and yet hes 22. Whats that, joe . I said, its just crazy, and we will talk about his book. Im curious, willie, do you put him where pedro was in 99, Greg Maddux 88 89 . He really is a once in a Generation Pitch every. I said to barnacle that its blasphemy to compare anybody to pedro. And he said, no, hes far better than even pedro that year. Lets bring in our good Friend And Uj author of robert b. Parkers payback a sunny random novel. We can talk yankees and mets. First of all with degrom, its obscene what mets have done. Hes lost games where hes given up just one run. If he were playing anywhere else, his win totals would be off the charts. Yeah, imagine if he got to pitch against the mets, how much better his numbers would be. Willie, this is one of the great fouryear stretches any pitcher ever had. Throw his one loss out because they didnt zor him any runs. Last week he gave him one run to the Red Sox and his earned run average jumped to 0. 51. Were at a place in his career, pedro, 99 2000, hes a righthanded koufax, where koufax was in the 1960s and its an unbelievable Privilege And Pleasure to watch this Guy Pitch now. It really is. Tonight in the bronx in yankee stadium, the astros are coming to town. Why is this significant . Its the first time since we found out they cheated all of those years and stole the alcs from the yankees in 2017. Yankee fans, small as they may be because of covid restrictions, get to finally in person boo the houston astros. Yes, Yankee Fans are always going to believe that 2017 Championship Series was stolen from them because of all of the sign stealing the astros were going to do. I dont want to sound blasphemous to you, Willie Geist, yankee fan, except to remind you when you do go back to houston for game six and seven that year, your team scored a grand whopping total of one run. Yeah. The fact is, now they have to come and face the music and the trash can banging. It will be truly a Joy Tonight at yankee stadium. So what youre saying is the astros cheated even when they went back home. Lets talk about your novel. Im going to say, mike, its really a page turner. And its also talk about timely, its as if you wrote it yesterday. It takes place Post Covid. Its really a great book. Talk about it. Joe, thank you, thank you for reading it. As i said in the description with mika, sunny randall does know her value. Yes, its a Post Covid world and he practically had his restaurant stolen from him. He was desperate. Made a bad deal with a bad hedge fund guy. That starts the action of the book. And then theres a gambling sub plot. I had to learn a lot more about poker than i ever known in my life, joe. This is my sird sunny random novel. Im so honored to be with my old Friend Robert b. Parker and the exception to these books, its a blast writing about these characters. Yeah, the Post Covid world because i didnt know how to set it in the covid world. So i said, okay, lets move us past that. And its just a chance for readers who always loved this character that robert b. Parker created, to hang out with her again for about 2,500 pages. Talking about payback and why people will love this one in particular, theres so much you give readers. Yeah, again, its the relationships in this book. This is her best friend who gets his restaurant stolen and sunny is not just going to let that happen. And another friend of hers, his niece gets assaulted one night at her school and they can tell shes not telling the truth, and about halfway through, joe, as you know, the two plots intersect. It just happens one day and it makes the last 150 pages of this book feel like a sprint. The worlds do collide. Yeah, again, its a pageturner and it is a sprint to The End. Mike lupicia, thank you so much for being with us and for writing these books. Theyre great. We love them. The new book is robert b. Parkers payback. Mike, thank you. That does it for us this morning. Stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. Hi, there, im Stephanie Ruhle live at Msnbc Head quarters here in New York city. It is tuesday, may 4th, lets get smarter. This morning were one step closer to the Covid Vaccine being available to all americans. The fda reportedly expected to make an announcement at any time authorizing children as young as 12 to get the pfizer vaccine. The move comes as the average number of vaccines being delivered is down more than 30 over the last month from high of 3. 4 million a day in april to roughly 2. 3 yesterday. We will hear from President Biden on that in the next few hours. But for now were talking about signs that american is starting to put this pandemic in the rearview mischer. New york, new Jersey And Connecticut, who were hammered early on, will look to lift Capacity Restrictions in sports, bars and