And they raid his apartment. Its like, so unfair and such a double its like a double standard. Tonight, a look back at just how far rudy has fallen. Nothing disturbs me more than to see all of the revelations of crime committed by the wealthiest members of our society. Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison on Police Reform as george Floyds Family comes to washington. All in starts right now. Good evening from New York. Im chris hayes. Something i noticed that across the ideological spectrum in a surprising way theres agreement about president Joe Bidens first joint address to congress last night. Lots of folks on the left and right that both agree that the Scope And Ambition of the domestic Agenda Biden laid out was truly staggering. And all that would come on the heels of the accomplishments of his first 100 days, which are just impressive. I mean, theres no other way to see it. Huge covid Relief Package, the massively successful Vaccination Effort, one of the best in the world after the u. S. Has been international lagered. More than 1 Million jobs gained in the first 100 days, more than any president in history. Last Night Biden proposed a wide range of progressive programs, from Ra Jobs plan and a Families Plan to a 15 minimum wage, and a change to Labor Law that would be the most significant Proworker Legislation since the new deal. He proposed extensions and expansions of the u. S. Social Safety Net that would bring this country finally into line with developed democracies. I mean, we are international laggards in a bunch of ways. Our level of unionization is below our peers. 54 in belgium. 66 in sweden. We got the highest level of Income Inequality of all the g7 countries, more than italy, japan, germany, and france. We dont even have paid family leave, okay . Were one of just a handful, handful of merely 200 countries in the u. N. Without a paid parental leave law. We are the laggard. And for years people on the left, progressives have been pointing out the deficiencies and Saskatchewan And Claw our way to bring us up to the standards of developed, rich liberal democracies and by and large it hasnt worked. There shall a bunch of reasons why, but our big one, i would even contend a central one, is the last 40 years of american politics have been predominated dominated by the Ideology And Legacy of President Ronald Reagan and the succinct defining quip. I always felt the nine most terrifying words in the English Language are im from the government and im here to help. Reagan was elected at this very interesting moment, high levels of inflatiOn And stagnating economy and intelligent school of Free Market Economists why its happening, the anger of an imperiled Ownership Class after the Welfare State was expanded and there was backlash against civil rights and social changes. And basically reagan brought all that together, creating Modern Conservativetism as we know it. And the central pillar of that was skepticism of the State And State interventions in the domestic sphere, accepting, of course, National Security and the military, which grew a ton under his watch. And it was amazingly effective politically and ideological, even carried over into democratic politics. We know big government does not have all the answers. We know theres not a program for every problem. [ applause ] we know and we have worked to give the american people a smaller, less bureaucratic government in washington. And we have to give the american people one that lives within its means. [ applause ] the era of big government is over. [ cheers and applause ] big applause, big government is over. That was president clinton Ten Years After the reagan clip. He was not alone. The next democratic president , barack obama, he in many ways certainly turned the corner of reaganism, huge investments like the Recovery Act and affordable Care Act and the cataclysm of American Capitalism Collapsing in on itself. But obama spent a lot of times Shadow Boxing with reagans ghost. From some on the right, i expect well hear a different argument. If we just make fewer investments in our people, extend Tax Cuts, including those for the wealthier americans, eliminate more regulations, maintain the Status Quo on Health Care will make our problems go away. Joe bidens nearly 50 years into his political career. Hes never been particularly on the leading edge of the left of his party. Hes been a centrist through and through, a dealmaker. Hes the guy who walked down from the podium last night, started Shaking Hands and asked a lawmaker, how is your mom . Give her my love. He also laid out the most ambitious democratic agenda for robust government Safety Net in generations probably since Lyndon Johnson proposed medicare. There was no defensiveness. He was on the offensive. My fellow americans, trickle down, trickledown economics has never worked and its time to grow the economy from the bottom and the middle out. [ applause ] big part of Bidens Shift has to do with what happened in american life particularly since the financial crash which discredited a kind of market fetishism. We have the staggering Gilded Age levels of inequality and a bunch of ideological battles that have been fought and won by people on the left. But i got to say this. Donald trump also deserves some credit because Donald Trump could not possibly care less about any of the punitive principles of Reaganism Or Paul ryanism or romneyism, about limited Government And Freedom and all that stuff. Donald trump is just a corrupt Wouldbe Autocrat who really likes the State And State power when it helps him and doesnt when it doesnt. He told people he was going to give them universal Health Care and passed an enormous covid Relief Package and wanted to shove as many checks into peoples hands as possible because he knew it was good politics. Utterly absence from all of his rhetoric was the echos of talk about freedom and individual choice and small government, Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah. After all that, republicans were along for the ride. Theyre still going through the motions on that rhetoric, but No One really cares. I dont think anyones listening. I mean, during Bidens Address last night, the Twitter Account for republicans in the House Judiciary Committee tweeted that infamous reagan line, the nine most terrifying words in the English Language. It got all of 391 retweets. We saw the same thing with the republican rebuttal. It was pretty thin on conservative policy ideas. He checked the boxes about socialism, but very quickly moved to the stuff that really animates the republican party, the conservative base, cancel culture and the Big Lie about voter fraud, and how progressives are the real racist and how schools teach white selfloathing. You can see it every night on Fox News and the rightwing press and what primary challengers are talking about, the audit happening in arizona. But they have basically declared total Intellectual Bankruptcy on the big questions at the center of how we should structure our economy and who it should work for. That doesnt mean theyre going to stop fighting it. The Donor Class is still very powerful. The gildedage billionaires dont want to have their capital Gains Taxed. The one big thing they passed under trump, the coalition of convenience before the pandemic was an enormous Tax Cut for the rich and corporations. Its just they dont have any good arguments or messaging left or seems to me like much heart in it. So while the political battle is not over, it does really feel like the conservatives, republicans are in a movement that is utterly ideological exhausted. Michelle goldberg is an Opinion Columnist for the New York times who called Joe Biden the first postreagan presidency and joins me now. I didnt realize i ripped off the subject from you when i saw that was in your guest sheet, oh, right, i guess this is a Michelle Goldberg take that i appropriated. But it was really on display last night, i thought. Yeah. To be fair, i ripped off that thesis from a political scientist named Steven Skronic who has this idea about different regimes, that there are certain president s that inaugurate it and then theres someone who brings them to a catastrophic close. In his schema, Donald Trump Is Akin to Jimmy Carter to marked the end of the newdeal era. You can see that from the beginning of the biden administration, right, that as you said, reaganism has exhausted itself. The rights fundamental economic commitments are now all over the place. Even the fact that the debate has now shifted from should we have an interventionist Family Policy to what should that Policy Look like, right . So that makes it much harder for the right to just scream socialism when biden proposes this transformative package that would suddenly make parenthood in this country less isolating and brutal. Such a great point. So you got this Thing Today playing out in the right where this jd vance, the hillbilly elegy guy, saying universal Day Care is Class War on the working class. But the better thing to do is what Josh Hawley and Mitt Romney were doing, which is give parents money. Its like, okay, thats the debate now. Should we subsidize universal Day Care, which has been the constant refrain for so long. It was get government off hi back and also in the case of Day Care, women should be home taking cabin of their kids and that ship has sailed. The religious fundamentalism might be still opponent in the united states, but theres no Familyvalues Party anymore, certainly not the party of Donald Trump and matt gaetz. So i think that like you said, theyre going through the motions, but their Heart Isnt in it. And that quote, That Famous Reagan Quote was so striking because i thought about that quote a lot of times during the pandemic, about how ecstatic i would be when i was trying to Home School my kids at home or when i was worrying when i was going to get a vaccine. If someone rang my doorbell and said im from the government and here to help. Literally holding a syringe. You can so much of politics is what terrain things are being contested on. What are the fights people want to the. From arguing with conservatives, these are fights they wanted to have. They wanted to have fights about why the capital Gains Tax has to be loaner than ordinary income because if not, there wont be enough capital and we wont get Capital Investment and its not fights they have they want to have anymore. Increasingly this stat always jumps out to me. Reagan won 80 of 100 counties largest share of residents with college degrees. Trump won 16. There is a Class Realignment happening among white voters particularly a little bit in this coalition that is also changing, like, how much they can sell it to their own people. The republican party, i think, is still very confused about this because you see them making a lot of anticorporate noises, particularly marco rubio. Theyre not willing to do muchb. Theyre still not willing, for example, to raise corporate taxes to fund infrastructure. Again, theyre such ideological incoherence, its hard for them to get it together to make a serious countercase. Michelle goldberg who wrote that great column that i unintentionally ripped off, thank you for coming on the show. Thanks a lot. I want to bring in brian deese, the director of the national economic council, president bidens top economic adviser. He formally served in the obama administration. Brian, good to have you on. Lets start with the scope of whats laid out. You got the big Covid Relief Baggage package, the Vaccination Effort under way and these two big packages, the Families Plan and the jobs plan. Together its about 4 Trillion combined cost. Theres going to be Tax Hikes to sort of offset that and pay for that. Were there discussions inside the White House saying, like, this is too much, we should pare back . Its good to be here. Were here at 100 days, its a Big Day. Its also a day where we learned that the economy in the first quarter grew by 6. 4 . Historic growth in the economy, historic growth in jobs. You can connect that directly to that early action around delivering the american rescue plan, covid relief, an effective vaccination program. And the jobs plan, the family plan, to your point, tried to build on that with a view that public investment in areas that we know will have high value for future productivity, better jobs, is actually the economic recipe we need to succeed. When we put these packages together, to answer your question, the focus was really on a bottomup, where do we see the highvalue public investment will compliment strong, durable, sustained growth, Job Creation in the u. S. In ways we havent seen for some time. Can we put this together in a way that, you know, that we can responsibly pay for by getting out some of the Tax Fairness you were just referencing . So for us and the president , this was really about what are the needs of the country right now, particularly as we face growing global competitive threats and lets put it together. Lets put it out there and the president wanted to say this has what the country needs. The payfors, a Washington Term where the money comes from. Right. The covid Relief Package was seen as emergency spending, which i think made a lot of sense. Here theres a lot of you have to top Bracketed Being raised. What i found fascinating is the popularity of this goes up when you tell people how youre going to pay for it. Morning consult said 60 of voters say theyre more likely to support the 3 Trillion Infrastructure Plan if its fwintd a Tax Increase on those making over 400,000. Do you feel like you have this is a tough sell . Or you feel like you have the wind at your backs on it . We feel like this makes a lot of sense. And i think that also resonates with a lot of people across the country. First of all, were talking about paying for these things over a longer period of time. Payfor is a Washington Term. Theres also been a Washington Convention to say you got to pay for everything over a tenyear window. Thats not how were approaching this. We think we have to make these investments, think about them as Capital Investments, invest now and offset the costs over the longer term. Thats the economics of it. And then in terms of the practicalities of it, people have seen for several years,we have a fundamental challenge where the largest companies and very wealthy individuals keep doing better and better. If were going to invest in the country, were going to make a big Capital Investment in ourself. Were all going to have to do our part. So on the economics, we think this actually is helpful. If you look at the corporate reform were proposing, we think that actually would make the country more competitive. It would be better for domestic investment if we fix some of the problems in the Tax Cut that President Trump and the republican congress passed. And it would also generate revenue we can invest in things like fixing our physical infrastructure, fixing our Care Infrastructure and the like. Brian deese , who in the White House advising on these big and ambitious projects, thank you so much for your time. Thanks for having me. Now, a little honest here. One of the realities of the tv news business, we deliver a tease to keep the viewer engaged to so you come back, keep watching me, keep giving me your eyeballs. Then we have the Rudy Giuliani story. Tonight im not going to do teasing about the latest reports about the second u. S. Attorney. Heres the interesting thing. It may start with just the ukraine. But thats not where its going to stop. Because rudy is actually a stupid guy. Hes only right now imagined what does heavy to do in order to stay out of prison. Don don don, The Rudy Story is next. It comes from within. It drives you. And it guides you. To shine your brightest. As you charge ahead. Illuminating the way forward. 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Prosecutors are reportedly interested in whether he broke Lobbying Laws by working as an unregistered foreign agent while serving the president as his personal lawyer. This evening the New York times reported that investigators are exploring whether Rudy Giuliani pushed for the removal of the u. S. Ambassador to ukraine back in 2019, yovanovitch, on behalf of trump, or whether he was serving in the interest of ukrainian officials, a violation of federal law. When she testified in 2019, she told lawmakers she had minimal contact with mr. Giuliani during her tenure as ambassador. I do not know mr. Giulianis motives for attacking me, but individuals may well have have believed their personal and financial ambitions were stymies by our Anticorruption Policy in ukraine. The fbi seized Cell Phones and computers from giuliani Rudy Giulianis Home And Office from the earlymorning raid yesterday. Giulianis lawyer called it legal Thuggery And Giuliani himself in his Radio Show this afternoon called the investigators crooks. Ive been fighting All My Life ive been fighting crooks All My Life. Im fighting crooks again. The only tragedy of it is they have titles from the government. But theyre a disgrace. They are a complete disgrace to the office that i distinguished. You distinguished. Trumps former personal lawyer, who was also raided and has experience with this thing thinks giuliani should be concerned. Rudy giuliani knows hes in big trouble, as your previous guest just advised. He ran the Southern District of New York. He knows exactly the games that they play because hes The One that created that playbook. And they take no prisoners. They did exactly the same thing to me. For a more nuanced look at the trouble he might be facing, im joined by the national political reporter for politico who reported today that a ukrainian exlawmaker says he spoke to the fbi about giuliani as well as joyce vance, former u. S. Attorney for the northern district of alabama. Betsy, between your regulator and the times reporting and the substance of the warrant, we have a much clearer view now of what the theory of the governments case, to the extent there will be one, is, which is basically he was being paid to do this on behalf of some shade ukrainian interests and was kind of running that parallel to the whatever trumps interests are. Is that your understanding . Thats certainly my sense of it. Weve reached the point of the Doj Investigation into Rudy Giuliani are where the feds have stopped being subtle, and the fact that now theyve executed multiple Search Warrants and have issued at least one grand Jury Subpoena suggests things are moving pretty quickly. One important detail from the reporting thats come out over the last 24 hours is that a name thats mentioned in one of these subpoenas is reportedly john solomon, who was formerly a columnist for the hill. Thats important in part because one of the things that you can do that is illegal is if a foreign Government Official pays you not just to lobby u. S. Government officials, but also to secretly do Public Relations on their behalf without disclosing it. If youre secretly working for a foreign Government Official to try to shape u. S. Media initiatives, that can get you in legal trouble with the Justice Department. So the fact that the doj is looking into potential conversations between giuliani and this former columnist suggests that that could be a piece of the case that they may be building against him. And of course we know doj is getting help. A former ukrainian lawmaker who i was in touch with told me that last summer the fbi reached out to him and he spoke with him about his knowledge of giuliani. He appeared in a documentary with giuliani so he has knowledge of how interacted with the cannes. He definitely didnt declare or register as an agent of a foreign government as is required. As someone who was a u. S. Attorney and ran a u. S. Attorneys office, from that perspective and experience, what do you see when you see these big, dramatic moves from the Southern District . Its an interesting point in that case when you make a decision to stop being covert and become overt. Right. This case was never really covert. Of course it was clear that there was an investigation going on to some extent, but now everything is over, and theyre into the phone. What you can find in a Cell Phone after a search like this can be of immense value. Maybe ultimately theres not a case, maybe you get passwords that let you take a look at accounts that youre just learning now exist. Maybe you find photographs, visual evidence of crimes that are committed. So this is a Breakaway Point in that case where you often find out if youre going to indict or not. We should note, it can be tough to enforce. But were dealing here if there was ever reason to have this law and enforce it, this is the president s lawyer possibly secretly working on behalf of foreign interests to attack an american official in the form of yovanovitch. This is as series as that kind of violation could be. Yeah. Not good. One of the problems that the Justice Department has had historically with enforcing this particular law that were talking about is that defendants have been able to argue that they didnt understand it and, therefore, they shouldnt be punished for failing to abide by it. That argument has been successful in the past. In this case, though, Rudy Giuliani, very senior u. S. Law Enforcement Official and a guy who spent a huge a. His time postpublic service talking about legal problems other people could find themselves in for being engaged in corrupt efforts to influence lawmakers. One of his huge Hobby Horses was the allegation that Joe Biden corruptly moved to fire a ukrainian prosecutor. Giuliani is very much steeped in these questions about law, so itll be tough for him to argue, oh, whoops, sorry, i didnt know it was a thing. Giuliani just gave an interview in which he said he try to foist the Hunter Biden hard drives on the fbi, which they were not interested. Can you imagine what the discussion is like, joyce, when youre about to serve a warrant on the president s lawyer and a former u. S. Attorney in the office that you work in . You know whats coming in this sort of a situation. So you know youve got to do everything right. And the fourth Amendment Juris Prudence is because he will complicated. So you know there was a careful legal review to make sure that if agents got to a place on the computer where they needed an additional warrant, it was clear they would go out and get those additional warrants from a judge beside the went back in. I suspect that this was a meticulous operation designed to avoid these sorts of primary legal problems, but always knowing that down the road there would be challenges from giuliani about Attorney Client Privilege and other legal issues. Theyre well prepared. Thank you both. Coming up, to properly understand the dissent of Rudy Giuliani, you need to know how he came to power in new York City. Theres No One better to talk about that than my next guest. Do not go anywhere. Shell want a plan to reach them. So shell get some help from fidelity, and shell feel so good about her plan, she can focus on living it. Thats the planning effect, from fidelity. It doesnt happen often. Everyday people taking on the corporate special interests. And winning. But now, the for the people act stands on the brink of becoming law. Ensuring accurate elections. Ironclad ethics rules to crack down on political selfdealing. A ban on dark money. And finally reducing corporate money in our politics. To restore our faith in government. Because its time. For the people to win. Ahhh get out of here mouse. Ahhh dont flex your pecs. Terminix. Rudy giuliani is a true international fame in the aftermath of 9 11. Before he became, quote, unquote, americas mayor, ridiculous term, and then a failed president ial candidate and a Buck Raker going around the world and getting paid for god knows what, he was Rudy Giuliani, the crime fighter, tough on crime, Law And Order guy from brooklyn who made his Big Splash as a swagger, presshunger, imperious u. S. Attorney for the Southern District and used that office to launch his successful campaign for mayor with cops rallying to his side, the man who was going to bring order to a lawless city, crackdown on the thugs and criminals and guys that tried to clean your car windows, never mind how many people ended up harassed or shot by police or how much the citys jails swelled. Through it all, giuliani sold this worldview, always shot through with racist ideas of crime and violence but it came down to good guys and bad guys and he was the good guys and he was one protecting you from them. The u. S. Attorney said hed like to throw back at them and anybody else involved in an insider trading scheme. Maybe we Cant Catch all of them, but we sure as heck can deliver a message, which is if you do get caught, youre going to lose your liberty, youre going to go to prison. I do think the work in my office has changed the definition of the problem of crime in america. Nothing disturbs me more than to see all of the revelations of crime committed by some of the most powerful and some of the wealthiest members of our society. Former prosecutor Rudy Giuliani won his second race against David Dinkins for mayor of new York City. The area of crime, the city of New York really has had a great deal of success. The citywide arrests have gone up to record highs, which is one of the ways in which weve also brought down crime. We arrest a lot of people, particularly drug dealers. You got to pay attention to somebody urinating on the street. Id like to take this moment to officially announce that it is once again all right to hitchhike. [ laughter ] what kind of mayor has he been . Good mayor, awful man. That simple. This guy whose entire Life And Career about going after crooks, right . This guy finds himself on the wrong side of Search Warrants, staring down the barrel of an indictment by his former office. Its an incredible plot twist. As a columnist Michael Daley chronicled decades of nefarious incidents in the checkered Politicize Career of Rudy Giuliani, giuliani even once referred to daley as public Enemy Number one. Michael daley, now a special correspondent for the daily beast joins me now. Michael, i thought of you yesterday when i saw this news. What is Michael Daley thinking of this having reported on this guy, watched his rise, and particularly the kind of sanctimony he brought to it about him being the good guy. What goes through your mind as you watch the news about his apartment being raided by the fbi . From personal experience, he doesnt take well to that. Who do i see, but rudy and his entourage coming out of city hall. He just announced a crackdown on speeding, so i got nothing else to do, i clocked him going over the Speed Limit passing a School Bus in the battery tunnel. When i wrote that, they said i was a liar, they had countersurveillance, i couldnt have been there. I had an easy pass, and you had an easy pass. He had Press Conferences for three days. He said at one point the Car Wouldnt go that saw. General motors said it did go that saw. At one point im told rudy said if this can happen, this is no longer america. So that was a little thing about speeding. You can imagine whats going to happen here. You know, Michael Cohen says that rudy is dumb. Hes not at all dumb. Hes just nuts. He just is. I mean, this is a guy he used to scream about parol, and he was conceived when his father was on parole for Armed Robbery and he wouldnt exist if it werent for parole. I can remember one day they said the mayor is going to have this is when hes married and living with his wife. Hes going to meet his girlfriend for dinner. Call the papers. Hes walking back to gracie mansion. I had nothing else to do, so i walked behind him. Theres a Little Protestant Church on a Side Street on the way to gracie mansion. There was a couple sitting on a bench. They were necking. He stopped and turned to his aide and said thats disgusting. It goes On And On And on. I mean Id Bet Money to this Day Rudy does not know why crime went down in New York. He thinks it has to do with broken windows, and squeegeeing windows. Crime went down because Jack Maple instituted a system whereby crime, blackonblack crime was treated as seriously as blackonwhite crime. If you got robbed in brooklyn, it got treated as seriously as of you were robbed on central park south. Thats why crime went down. Rudy to this day doesnt know that. You said this classic rudy sanctimony. On his Radio Show today, he said ive done your job longer and better than you have. You people have convictions like i had, a person like me in the Attorneys Office since i left. No wonder youre jealous but thats that ego, people say what happened to rudy, thats been the guy for 40 years. I mean, september 10th, 2001, i was by city hall. I watched rudy come down the steps with his entourage. Not a single person said hello. No one noticed him. The tourist didnt take his picture. Everybody was tired of him. All his antics, all the stuff with his girlfriends and lies and craziness. It was done. It was over. Next morning was a very bad morning, as everybody knows. Two days later, im just down there and i get a call from the city saying we want you to write about Rudy Giuliani. I said why . And they said hes like the face of 9 11. I said, what are you talking about . I havent seen him. They said, he was the face of it. Everybody decided this is mr. New york. I mean, the reason he was walking around down there, that famous footage of him walking with his people with the mask, the reason he was there was that he built the worlds only Air Yell Bunkerer on the 17th Floor with Diesel Fuel tanks above it and it was burning. He couldnt go to his command center. He had to go to ladder 5 up in Greenwich Village and break in to make his command postwhile they were all downtown getting killed. Michael daley, who did an incredible job chronicling mayor giuliani and 9 11 in the days afterwards, pleasure to talk to you. Thank you. I talk too much when im on air. You did great. A Big Day for Police Reform on capitol hill. The Floyd Family in d. C. To meet with lawmakers on both sides of the aisle. Ill ask Minnesota Attorney general Keith Ellison what changes hes looking for in the wake of the Chauvin Prosecution ahead. Its the biggest thing that ever happened to small. Visit your local Mercedesbenz Dealer for exceptional Lease And Financing offers. You Were Always On My Mind by Willie Nelson were delivering for the earth. By investing in more electric vehicles, reusable packaging, and carbon capture research. Making earth our priority. Thought id seen it all. Did you know the source of odor in your home. Thought id seen it all. Could be all your soft surfaces . Odors get trapped in your homes fabrics and resurface over time. Febreze Fabric Refresher eliminates odors. Its waterbased formula safely penetrates fabrics where odors hide. Spray it on your rugs, your curtains, your furniture, all over your home to make It Part of your tidying up routine. Febreze Fabric Refresher, for an Allover Freshness Youll love. This one is a fun story. I first learned to love performing and the theater as a high School Student in new York City back in the 90s when Rudy Giuliani was mayor, in fact. I went to Hunter College high school where i was cast in a Studentrun Production of Brick Prison Play house a reference to the fact that our school was a converted armory, which barely has windows. Early on, brick Prisons Faculty Adviser was this incredible man named dr. Herbert. It was on that day this video was taken that dr. Herbert proposed that an enterprising young student, The One holding the camera, should write a musical. In fact, you can hear the exact moment captured in the video. Pay attention to the end of this next clip. Oh, and the kid in the blue shirt, that would be me. You were in 89. I was in 91. Fine, 90. Okay, lin, youre on. What . Youre on. Okay, lin, youre on. The guy behind the camera was a Skinny Eighth Grader named linmanuel miranda. A few years later, he would write an original that i directed and the rest is history. Lin will be featured in inspiring america on nbc where we highlight extraordinary people making a positive impact in their communities. When Lester Holt sat down to interview lin, he talked about the influence that dr. Herbert and Brick Prison had on the course of his life. Well, i think i always knew i wanted a life in the arts and making stuff, and i didnt know what form that would take. I always credit my Eighth Grade English Teacher who kind of caught me writing poems in the back and said, you know, when you apply that stuff to our class, youre actually pretty good. I think he was the first person outside of my very supportive family to say youre a writer, and he nudged me in the direction of playwrighting because we had a where we prod studentwritten plays. Thats what nudged me in that direction. I dont know what i would be writing if it werent for dr. Herbert saying go hang out with those kids. Those kids. That was me in that room. Those were the kids that we were hanging out with. Youll hear from other incredible individuals on inspiring america, the 2021 inspiration list, which airs this saturday, may 1st, 8 00 p. M. Eastern, and on Msnbc Sunday at 10 00 p. M. Eastern. Dont miss it. That works to turn down acid production, blocking heartburn at the source. With just one pill a day, you get 24hour heartburn protection. Take the Prilosec Otc Twoweek challenge. And see the difference for yourself. Prilosec otc, 1 pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. The light. It comes from within. It drives you. And it guides you. To shine your brightest. 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So that we can get to all the other moments. Lets get you to the exhale you didnt know you were waiting for. Lets get it. Together. So we can be together. Lets get to immunity. Nows your moment to get vaccinated. No matter the verdict in the Derek Chauvin Murder trial, the former Police Officer was leaving the courtroom in handcuffs according to a new report. The Minneapolis Star Tribune Report the department of Justice Spent Months gathering evidence to indict chauvin on federal Police Brutality charges in a separate case from 2017. Feared the publicity could incluns the states trial, they came up with a contingency splan. If he was found not guilty on all counts, they would arrest him at the courthouse, but he was convicted on three Murder And Manslaughter charges. A big part of that had to do with the case presented and the team put together by the states Attorney General, Keith Ellison, who was pointed as the federal prosecutor. Now, theyre moving forward with their case to indict chauvin and the three other officers involved in george Floyds Murder on charges of civil rights violations. Joining me now is Keith Ellison, the Attorney General of minnesota. That was a surprising thing to read. Im curious your reaction as a person that supervised the team that did this prosecution. Did you know anything about the feds looking into this . Well, i didnt know anything about the feds actually, i know they have jurisdiction. I know that the office was interested and concerned, but i didnt know any of the details. Im glad i didnt because i really had enough to do to focus on the state prosecution. But i am glad that they that the federal government, either through the Doj Practice and even through criminal enforcement of civil rights violations is interested. It makes a big difference. How much how important was it that this prosecution happened under your supervision, the state Attorney General, and not out of the Hennepin County Prosecutors Office where it normally would happen and where we have seen local prosecutors have a very tight relationship, obviously, with the police and their jurisdiction. Well, i just want to say as a preliminary matter, Hennepin County Attorneys Office was very helpful to us. They were our partners. And i want to make that very clear. But i will say that gave us an opportunity to look at the charges anew, and we decided to go from third Degree Murder up to second Degree Murder, which we charged. And we charged the other three. So when the case went from the county attorneys to my office, the charges increased, and the number of defendants increased. So we have only dealt with one defendant. The other ones are presumed innocent until proven guilty, but that matter is set on for august, and were working diligently to put on an excellent prosecution. When you say presumed innocent until proven guilty, that of course is a core and important prosecution principle. Its also something you spent decades, you know, years as a defense attorney, and i wonder how that informed how you thought about this case. Let me tell you, as a defense attorney, and now as a prosecutor, and as a legislator, i have learned that its not the position or the role that you play in the system. Its whether you bring Integrity And Honesty to it, as a defense attorney, i knew a lot of people who just mailed it in for their clients. And i know a lot of people who started out talking about what they were going to plea their clients to. I never thought that was the right thing to do. Now that im in another role, were prosecuting vigorously, and we look forward to and hope that theres a vigorous defense so that we know that the person is treated with fairness, dignity, and respect, even if theyre found guilty, as Derek Chauvin was. We didnt want to be unfair to Derek Chauvin. We wanted to be scrupulously fair to him so he was convicted by a jury of his peers, which we did do, and we plan on moving forward in that same direction with the remainder of this case. But yeah, i do care about defendants. I think as a prosecutor, you know, youre not a minister of punishment, youre a minister of justice, and thats a very important thing. And our system would be better served if we all proceeded that way. Yeah, i thought that there was a really notable moment from brandon mitchell, one of the jurors in the case, talking about just sort of seeing the humanity in the entire situation, saying when mr. Mitchell Saw Video of Chauvin Take Nn to custody, he felt compassion for him. Hes a human, too. I almost broke down from that. We decided his life. Its tough to deal with. Even though its a right decision, its still tough. What do you think of that . Im so proud of this jury, man. We were so fortunate to get 12 people who really cared, who listened carefully, not every bit of this trial was riveting testimony. Some of it was just regular procedure type stuff, but it didnt matter. They were focused every inch. They were taking notes, they were watching, they were paying attention. Some of the medical testimony was kind of complicated. But they still paid close attention. So yeah, i am not surprised that they had that they had some sympathy or that particular jury had some sympathy for Derek Chauvin. But this case, Justice Cant be about sympathy. Its got to be about what do the facts show, you know, and its had Judges Job to decide what the sentence is going to be and not the jurors. They just decided the facts, and the facts were clear beyond a reasonable doubt, and they came back quick. Keith ellison, so fascinating to get your take on the trial. I want to get you back to talk broader about Police Reform soon. Take care, chris. That is All In on this thursday night. The Rachel Maddow Show starts right now. Good evening. Thank you, my friend. Much appreciated. Thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. Very happy to have you here, this Post State of the union thursday night. So if you were not lucky enough to live through it at the time, you may not know this. I did live through it at the time so i know. Heres how it looked. You would click on the start button, lower Lefthand Corner of your screen, but instead of starting some normal program, you would start microsoft bob. Microsoft bob would then appear as a giant face on your screen, and in order to get started doing your work or your homework or whatever, you would have to knock on the door of microsoft bobs house, click on the knocker, a dog would then demand to know who you are. He would woof at you, eventually let you in, and then that is where youre supposed to get your