Transcripts For MSNBC All In With Chris Hayes 20240711

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Think i you called it a racist bill, right snt. I think there are provision thats are racist, yes. Plus, ben rhodes on what our president can do about the russian president as protesters swarm the streets. And Steve Kornacki and his big board break down where we are after 200 million shots in 92 days. And where there is work to be done. All in start right now. Good evening from new york. There are those that will tell that you former Minneapolis Police officer Derek Chauvin didnt get due process. Some on the right are calling his conviction a lynching, claiming the jury was intimidated into finding him guilty. These people seem to be taking his conviction bernlly because they seem to be personally invested in Derrick Shoef yip chauvin and what he did and it being allowed. He got more due process than at least 90 of Criminal Defendants in this country. Every once in a while america we have a big show stopping trial. We all tune into like the Chauvin Trial and people start to think a trial like that represents american justice. Just like perry mace son or law and order. It doesnt. Thinking that is like watching the nba and assuming thats what every pickup basketball game, every level of schooling in america looks like. Trials do not happen that frequently in america. Less than 10 of Criminal Defendant goes to trial. The whole system works on plea deals. Every day the criminal Justice System moves people from arrest to jail to plea to prison. Thats the system. If every Criminal Defendant in america got the Derek Chauvin treatment, full trial, the entire legal criminal Justice System would collapse tomorrow. Cant function. Jail, plea, prison. Thats the way it goes for, you know, just about everyone 90 of the people. Except cops. Cops are often not even indicted by grand juries. When they are indicted, they go to trial. With the reasonable expectation that they will be acquitted. Going into the Chauvin Trial and the aftermath of his conviction, its been abundantly clear that criminal Justice System is not fixed for the bigger problem here. Nearly 30 years ago in the wake of the Police Beating on tape of rodney king and then the acquittal of four los angeles Police Officers involved, the city and much of the country erupted in outrage. Congress gave the Attorney General a new power, to investigate Police Departments in cases involving a pattern or practice of conduct by officers that may violate the federal rights. This is part of the 1994 crime bill and they came to be known as pattern or practice cases. In may of 2000, it was filing a lawsuit against the Los Angeles Police department under that law. Alleging the lapd is engaged in a pattern, practice of constitutional violations through excessive force, false arrests, unreasonable searches and seizures and that Management Deficiency as loud this misconduct to occur. Now this followed years of misconduct at the lapd. Beatings, shootings. Corruption, including a group of officers originally tasked with Combatting Gang thats became an armed gang themselves. Later this year, the City Of Los Angeles agreed to enter into a federal consent decree. That say mute little agreed upon set of reforms to the Police Department and then a federal oversight process to make sure those reforms are being implemented. Under the obama administration, the Department Of Justice opened 25 of these pattern or practice investigations into Police Departments. I read a bunch of the reports issued from them from ferguson to cleveland. One of the most prominent is being the probe into the ferguson Police Department after a Police Officer shot Michael Brown in 2014. But the Trump Administration almost completely band ond the practice. Under boj Attorneys General Jeff Sessions and bill barr, opening one investigation into the springfield, massachusetts Police Department in 2019. At the time they noted what a huge mistake that was. What an unused power. This Justice Department is not interested in remedying major systemic problems in Police Departments. The president , Jeff Sessions, bill barr have been uniformly focused on dismantling the Police Reform effort thats the Justice Department had been engaged in. This Justice Department has really walked away from the role that it needs to play. The donald trump lost and joe biden won and to date federal government is getting back in the game. Joe bidens Attorney General announcing an investigation into Derek Chauvins Police Department. Yesterdays verdict in the state Criminal Trial does not address potentially systemic policing issues in minneapolis. Today i am announcing that the Justice Department has opened a civil investigation to determine whether the Minneapolis Police department engages in a pattern or practice of unconstitutional or unlawful policing. The Department Of Justice will be unwaivering in its pursuit of equal justice. Under law. Attorney general Marek Garland is heading that new probe along with his newly confirmed number three at the Justice Department, the associate Attorney General of the United States who you just heard speaking about the need for those investigations. The Chauvin Trial laid bear the dire need for change in american policing. This is one existing policy tool we do have to reform Police Department thats are broken. Democratic Congresswoman Corey Bush of missouri became an 5 00ivist after the killing of Michael Brown jr. And she joins me now. Congresswoman, you have seen this up close. And its part of what got you into politics. Your reaction to the verdict yesterday and the announcement from the Attorney General today . The trial was just traumatic to watch. But it is as traumatic as every day living in this country as a black person or a brown person or indigenous person that just would like to live your life, the life that, you know, you get to see other people live. We just dont get that. We dont get that type of jury. They all have faults. But the ping that people expect us pob overjoyed and happy and just celebrating this this should be the thing that if you murder someone, you know, you put your knee on someones neck and you and it was your job to protect and serve the community that you put your knee on someones neck that begged you that kept saying that they were, you know, they couldnt breathe and people were saying, youre going to kill him and you continue to do that, i think that that that says that we have this huge problem. But the thing that i dont understand, ill say, chris, is we have to keep fighting this. Why is it that the world was watching . What is going to happen with this . It should have been oh, we already know what is going to happen. It shouldnt have happened. This should be the thing. Now were here and i hope that all of our Law Enforcements, the im not someone that is antilaw and nobody needs to put that out there. I want people to do their job right and be held accountable in everything they do. So pay attention, Law Enforcement. Do their job and do it right and being held accountable. If you articulate the vision that way, obviously youre a member of congress. You represent Police Officers. Im sure you vicinity actions with them as a representative in that respect. I guess the question is do you think that the federal government can help here . You remember congress now, you worked your way from being a organizer and activist in the death of Michael Browns death to now having a vote in congress. Do you think the federal government has a role to play here . Absolutely. First of all, you know, just the fact that we do get to bring forward legislation. You know, im here to legislate. I said it a million times. Im here to legislate to save black lives. Because black lives are there is a huge problem in our country where black lives are always, always targeted. Brown lives are always targeted. Im here to legislate. With that in mind first. So, yes, that is our job. We have the power of the pen and the power of the purse. So we can do something about i we do have legislation that is brought forward. We have the brief at and then my office, were also working on some things that we will be bringing forward. But, you know what . The thing is, i am a member of our house judiciary committee. Everything on this committee, one thing i can look at is bringing those bringing to the forefront these issues that ive been able to witness. So this is the thing, chris. Im not talking about what i just heard. Im not talking about what i read only. Im not talking about what people said and what i seen and witnessed and what i experienced myself. I remember laying on the ground, chris, during the ferguson protest the night when the bill was called by the yes, that night. Who do i call out to in this moment . Who do you call when its the sflees who am i calling ought to save me . We should not be live in a country where that is the thing for somebody who is just trying to work to save lives. And being a member of this community here. But now, now that i sit in this seat, that is the work that i have before me. Bring them before hearings to make sure that that change happens. Look, change doesnt happen if people dont feel it. If their lives dont change. Thats what im here to do. Thank you so much. Thank you, chris. I want to turn to the Acting President and Executive Director of the Lawyers Committee for civil rights under law. Thats an organization you may have heard of and previously led by Kristen Clark who is now awaiting confirmation to lead the Justice Department civil rights division. So mr. Hewitt, you have big shoes to fill. Were all watching the Kristen Clark hearing. You have a lot of experience with these what we call federal consent decrees. Mfrp from the Department Of Justice into local Police Department thats lead to some sort of oversight situation. Do they work . Is this an effective tool in the tool kit here . First of all, thanks for having me. Its important to make sure we use every tool that isnt s. In the tool kit. There is a reason request a former Attorney General tried to neutral they are tool on his way out the door. In fact, he spent time in the seat as Attorney General. There was some concern or fear that it was going to be an effective tool. But theres a reason why it wasnt used. There is a reason why our Attorney General is using the tool once again. Its not perfect. Right . But it is the one thing we have at the executive tlaefl can go beyond an individual killing, an individual murder or individual trial to look at every aspect of policing in a particular jurisdiction. It can be triggered by a particular killing as this one was in minneapolis. But it can be triggered by a number of things, including complaints from Community Members who were getting the raw end of the deal. One thing that i found as a journalist with these patterns and Practices Investigations is they produce a written record by the federal government that almost has this effect of saying to communities, you know, youre not crazey. Its pretty bad here. You saw that with the ferguson report of patterns and practices where federal investigators confirmed that this was a fundamentally an Exploit Ative force. How important is that Record Setting in having an authoritative voice with the Justice Department to fwauk what has happened with a given Police Department . Civil rights 101 is documentation. It does a couple things. It creates that record which helps build the case. The policy case. The activism case. But it also, again, it is validating the communities. It gives people energy. But it also gives a road map to those at the local level who actually want to make change. Who can actually be partners in that. We can provide you an effective road map as well for what is the problem, what is wrong and what the changes need to be made . What other tools do you want to see marshalled here . Again, in the aftermath of this, the aftermath of the biggest civil rights protests and probably a generation this brutal murder that happened video recorded, a country in which Police Officers killed three people a day, sort of unlike anything that happens anywhere else in the world. But a country with very high levels of interpersonal violence that relates to that. Very armed populous the police are engaging every day. What other tools do you want to see marshalled here . The cycles of violence in state houses is part of it. And thats what the federal government and local and state governments can certainly address directly. What we need is a counterpart for the investigations. And i think corey bush mentioned one great one. George floyd and the policing. We need that 12 punch. And criminal liability in the appropriate case. Inappropriate cases. You know, registry that shines some daylight on what officers are doing when they act with impunity. Again, its not all officers. But in are certainly some, too many, frankly, acting with impunity. Day in and day out, you go from one Police Department to the next. Without any Accountability Killing people when they go unchecked. If we have the moral clarity that information can provide through the practices and the investigations combined with the potential for enforcement at the executive level and the potential for civil and criminal sanctions, i think we can then start to see can the legal system when it is fully loaded actually start to make some changes . Policing . All right. Thank you so much for sharing your experience and expertise with us tonight. And her address to the nation last night, Vice President Kamala Harris urged the senate to pass the George Floyd Act Which mr. Hewitt is discussing. That is a Policing Reform bill that she introduced along with cory booker last summer. Now in the wake of the guilty verdicts, there is renewed attention on making meaningful change in policing. Sort of a now or never moment for the george floyd act. Its going to pass, it has a window right now. So im going to talk to senator cory booker about whether they can get this done right after this. 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It was not long before a bill in George Floyds name was passed in the House Along Party lines. And nevertheless, republicans offered a counter bill, watered down versionst bill instead. Now at the time, cory booker called the bill he wouldfully inadequate, deeply flawed and painfully weak. When it comes to Policing Reform, he may have a closer hand on this than any other senator. He was mayor of new jersey when they sent him ray letter announcing a investigation into the citys Police Department. By the time newark entered a settlement announcing hugely agreed upon reforms, he was in the senate. He made a number of proposal to reform criminal justice, including one signed into Law By Donald Trump in 2018. Joining me now is cory booker, democrat from new jersey. Senator, were talking about the policing act. We referred to the reform. What would it do . What is the sort of version to people about what it would do and how it applies to problems that people are experiencing . Im a former mayor with a majority black city, majority black city council, black mayor. And we were doing innovative reforms. But the Justice Department took our data and showed us we had severe challenges and problems. And we went about changing them even further with the aclu. This goes to show you, this isnt about good intentions. This isnt about overt racism. These are about systems that need change. We need accountability in the george floyd act has a lot more transparency. We want to pull that data from every Police Department. We want to begin reporting from uses of force to even the racial breakdown of the traffic stops and more. In addition to that, we want to ban certain practices that has led to the death of people like eric garner or breonna taylor, specifically those kind of no knock warrants. We want greater liability. We want to see real accountability. That means taking on qualified immunity that is shielding cities and officers from that. So there say lot in our bill that would go a long way in shifting American Police accountability. I heard this argument from Police Officers. Police officers are probably good cops, good Police Officers, care about what they do and something like, for instance, getting rid of the qualified immunity protections which is something that the Supreme Court kind of built up through the jurisprudence to make the Inpenetratable Shield for misbehavior on the job. That that would put Police Officers in a defensive crouch. It will make them less pro active and youll get worse policing. What is your argument . Thats not my belief. I dont share that belief whatsoever. I really do believe you have to know if you grossly violate laws and civil rights that there are consequences for that. Weve seen the impunity and this led to a lot of folks death. The bad apples do not think there will be consequences when they do the horrific things. So i am trying my best. Im in the middle of some deep talks to get to a place where we dont solve all the problems. I think Policing Reform is going to take a lot more. But where we can say to america, we have created more accountability. Change standards and make americans safer and the Police Profession is hurting right now. A headline just read that we have historically low in applications for our state police. We need to heal the Police Community relations and trust in Law Enforcement. So there is a lot we have to work on and do. I think we can. This is the moment to make some strides. Karen bass On The House Side was on joy reids program in the last hour talking about feeling that there is prospect here. I think there is informal conversations with having the author and sponsor of that sort of Alternative Bill that was floated the last time around. Is there an actual booip consensus piece of legislation . Is that is a possibility in the short term . It is most certainly a possibility. Tim and i are friends. Weve done big bills together. Hes a good faith actor. Will it be enough to lead to real change and reform . Ive seen things before from racial sense tifrt training to Community Policing funding and it has not led to a stop of the deaths of people like rice, george floyd, breonna taylor, eric garner and the names we all know. So my standard is are we making are we making real substantive reforms that we can say are really going to make a difference . Im encouraged by the conversations now. Im hard at work. This center of my efforts for many days now to try to get something passed. All right. Senator cory booker, thank you so much. Thank you very much. Just ahead, republican senator john kennedy tries to go toe to toe with Stacey Abrams and it does not go so well for him. That amazing exchange next. T gor him. That amazing exchange next casio, weakness or discomfort in your hands or feet . 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There was a hearing on Voting Rights in the Senate Judiciary committee yesterday. Stacey abrams, testified as a witness. For some reason, john kennedy seemed to think he could stump abrams to list all the reasons why georgias restricting law is racist. One of the most knowledgeable people in the country about that law was ready. Youre against the georgia bill, i gather. Is that right . Im against certain versions of it, yes. I think you called it a racist bill. Am i right . I think there are provision thats are racist, yes. Okay. Tell me specifically, just give me a list, of the provisions that you object to. I object to the provisions that remove access to the right to vote. That shorten the federal runoff period from nine weeks to four weeks. Restrict the time that a voter can request and return an absentee ballot investigation. Slow down for me. Because our audio is not real good here. Certainly. Could you start over for me . Certainly. Thank you, maam. It shortens the federal runoff period from nine weeks to four weeks. Okay. It restricts the time of voter can request and return an absentee ballot investigation. Right. It requires that a voter have a Photo Identification or some other form of identification that theyre willing to surrender in order to participate in absentee ballot process. That if i can stop you. Thats where theyre going to not comparing signatures but to voter id . Yes. And as she pointed out, we would become only the fourth state in the nation to what else . It eliminates over 300 hours of drop box availability. Okay. What else . It bans nearly all out of precinct votes. Bans what . Im sorry . Out of precinct votes. Meaning you get there and youre in line for four hours and youre not there between 5 00 and 7 00 p. M. , you have to start all over again. Is that everything . No. It is not. No, sir. It restricts the hours of operation because it now under the guise of setting standardized time line, it makes it optional for counties that maybe may not want to see expanded access to the right to vote. They can now limit the hours. Instead of the hours being from 7 00 to 7 00, theyre now from 9 00 to 5 00 which may have an effect on voters that cannot vote during business hours. Okay. I get the idea. I get the idea. Thats enough. You asked, sir. The georgia law is one example of aggressively, for lack of better word, antidemocratic laws being pushed by republicans across the country. In florida, republicans passed a law that attempts to criminalize protests. That will be challenged. Introducing new crimes like aggravated vie yachting and mob intimidation. The law also this is real, increases protections so those responding to demonstrations granting civil immunity to drivers that run through crowds of protesters. Florida republicans are also trying to pass a Voter Restriction Bill which make Absentee Voting harder. Just passed out of the Florida Senate rules committee. One of hundreds such bills as of last month, they have introduced 361 bills with restrictive provisions in 47 states. Not just in places where republicans may lose but in places like montana where they elected a republican. He signed a clause ending same day Voter Registration and increasing voter identification. Ari burrman is a senior and author of give us the ballot. And he joins me now. You know, one thing that came through effectively in Stacey Abrams response to senator kennedy is there is a death by 1,000 cuts feel to them, right . Like small like oh, were going to limit this and were going to reduce drop boxes and reduce hours. Its all the change thats go in one direction. Thats right. Its a couple la sieve effect of voter suppression, chris. In georgia, they wanted to do the big sweep changes. They wanted to repeal automatic voting registration. That was so politically unpopular, they went for the more under the radar changes. They thought them wouldnt be able to understand. Things like stripping the Secretary Of State of power after he stood up to trump or giving them control over an Election Administration they didnt have before or having ballots cast in the precinct. He asked the Secretary Of State in georgia to fine him 11,000 votes. And the Secretary Of State and so now theyre passing the laws to try to find 11,000 votes and more by making it harder to vote in future elections. You know, georgia is such an interesting example. There is a history there with brian kemp and Stacey Abrams before this. It is a longer history because its a state In The Deep South that had all the kind of jim crow sort of laws on the books. Prior to Voting Rights act. And now its a state that flipped by this narrow margin. Huge, right . Montanas interesting. Its like republicans did fine. They have Voter Registration. They did fine. Can you win an election as republican. You dont need this. And, yet, same impulse. One of the first things the governor is doing. Well, this is the playbook all across the country, chris. The top priority of Republican Party right now is to make it harder to vote. And not just in states that joe biden won. Obviously that, is ground zero for the effort. Places like georgia, arizona, michigan this is where theyre most desperate to enact the restrictions on voting. Theyre pushing them in states like florida and states he won comfortably like montana, and iowa. Theyre all marching off the same playbook. The laws theyre passing to restrict Voting Rights are similar across the country. For example, georgia passed a bill that criminalized giving food and water to people in line. That is a controversial provision. Well, similar bills have now been introduced in florida and in arkansas. Criminalizing Election Administration. That is happening not just in georgia but in iowa in, florida, in other states, in texas. And so really, not just theyre not just trying to make it harder to vote in all the states. Theyre trying to make it hard to vote in all the same ways in state after state after state. There is an ohio story i saw today about the that they have judicial elections that democrats have done pretty well in. And they dont have the party line listed. Even though the judicial if youre running for the state courts are democrats and republicans and republicans want to change it now to have a partisan id. I thought it was interesting. That isnt antidemocratic. I think can you make arguments in both directions honestly in terms of voter transparency. But yet another example of losing a set of elections and immediately going to the rules. Thats the thing to deal with as opposed to like your message, platform, whatever youre going to do. Well, thats been the playbook across the country. It hasnt been to reach out to more voters. Its been how to have fewer voters participate in the process. And its always about changing the rules only when they dont work for them. So in Georgia Republicans wrote all of the voting laws. And theyre perfectly fine with them until democrats started using them in large numbers. And its interesting in florida theyre trying to make it harder to vote by mail. Theyre trying to get rid of drop boxes. Theyre only doing that when democrats outnumbered republicans and mailed voters. So they trump it. They talk about trying to get people to vote by mail. And then the second the democrats start doing this they say, no, we have to get rid of these things. Thats really telling that instead of trying to appeal to more voters, theyre just trying to have fewer voters participate. I think thats basically the central Organizing Principle everywhere whether it comes to how they view democracy right now. Yeah. I think they have convinced themselves. I dont think theyre right about. This heres the crazy thing. They convince the fewer people voting, the better for us. On the margins. Lets make you it harder. Dont go anywhere. The u. S. Hits a major milestone in vaccinations, one and only Steve Corebacky here at the big board to break down the latest numbers. Thats coming next. N the latest numbers. Thats coming next [ ] life is busy, and sometimes odors can sneak up on you. For a convenient life hack. Try Febreze Unstopables fabric refresher. With 2 times the scent power of regular febreze, Unstopables Fabric finds, neutralizes and eliminates tough odors trapped in hardtowash fabrics, like couches or smelly sports equipment; leaving an irresistibly fresh scent. And for a tropical burst of freshness, try new paradise scent. Stop sneaky odors from lingering in your home, with Febreze Unstopables. Spray, lift, skip, step. Swipe, lift, skip, step. Super, spin, still. Fresh kick, fly, still. Dry. Fresh, fresh, fresh, fresh. 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Dont touch container tip to your eye or any surface. After using xiidra, wait 15 minutes before reinserting contacts. Got any room in your eye . Talk to an eye doctor about twicedaily xiidra. I prefer you didnt xiidra. Not today, dry eye. Do you struggle with occasional nerve aches, xiidra. Weakness or discomfort in your hands or feet . Introducing Nervive Nerve Relief from the worlds number 1 selling nerve care company. As we age, natural changes to our nerves occur which can lead to occasional discomfort. Nervive contains B Complex Vitamins that nourish nerves, build Nerve Insulation and enhance nerve communication. And, alphalipoic acid, which relieves occasional nerve aches, weakness and discomfort. Live your life with less Nerve Discomfort with Nervive Nerve Relief. You know, life is complicated and being a human in the world presents challenges all the time. I mean maybe youre in a fight with a friend or Family Member or someone else and its bumming you out. Its keeping you up at night. Maybe you have some kind of Workplace Conflict or you have a relative that is sick or your kid is getting bullied in school or in debt, stressing your finances. I mean there are all kinds of sources of anxiety and difficulty around us. It is never the case that you can just go and get a shot and take it all away. Its not how life works. That never happens. Which means the Coronavirus Vaccine is as close to a magic wand that will exist in our life. The virus is part of stress and anxiety and peril to your health. Now can you get a shot and essentially make all that stress disappear. Thats why people talk about getting emotional when they get the vaccine. Its so remarkable because nothing else in life works that way. In that sense, it really is a miracle. Just today President Joe Biden announced, we have administered 200 million doses of vaccine in less than 100 days, in 92 days. Great news. Here to crunch the numbers to tell us how much of our country is vaccinated is the great Steve Kornacki back at the big board. Chris, thanks. Lets take a look at the way we can look at the numbers. Plan your vaccine. Com. That is our way of helping you figure out where, how, when can you go get the vaccination. Like right now 40. 5 , a little more than 40 of the entire population, everybody in the United States from the oldest to the youngest, the entire population in this country, now 40. 5 have gotten at least one dose of the vaccine. Now there are a couple others way to break down this number. Thats everybody. What about just the adult age population . 18 years and older. Number gets higher there. In fact, it was this week that that milestone of 50 , 50 of at Adult Population vaccinated. We crossed that milestone. Work your way up to senior citizens. The most vulnerable group. 65 mus now over 80 of seniors. That number continuing to rise with at least one dose. You can add another layer on to this. Fully vaccinated. Getting both shots. Take a look at that category for the groups. Again, basically a quarter of the total population, third of the Adult Population and two third fully, twothirds of the senior population. And just as a reminder, when you look at the numbers among seniors, that rast vaccination, look, again, more than half a Million Deaths from covid19. Look how skewed it is to seniors . 81 of the deaths, more than 80 have come from the 65 and older. 95 of those deaths came from folks 50 and older. When you see vak andation rates that high for seniors, for older americans, keep that in mind. And that also probably goes a long way to explaining this, what you see here. This is the rolling average here of deaths from vud. Remember, early this year we were really hitting that new peak early this year. This right here this is basically the start of february. This is basically the point where we cross the 10 threshold for vaccinations. Its been climbing and climbing. Millions of every day really since then. As that happened, you can see here that daily rolling average of the death rate has really dropped. Its kind of plateaued a bit lately. One thing weve seen lately is there are more and more people getting vaccinated every day. But the growth in vaccinations actually seems to be stopping. Maybe even slowing a little bit. So that might be the cause for concern at least right now. Can you get that really ramped up, get the numbers even higher than weve seen . One other way of looking that is to compare that one shot for the Adult Population in the u. S. , how does that compare to other countries Around The World . Give you a sense of the range that is out there right now. So for at least one shot, israel kind of leads the way internationally. 62 there. If you look by the way at israel right now, this could be a preview of what is to come here. If you look at the new daily cases, theyre really getting low right now. When i look at this, japan. Summer olympics. Supposed to be this summer in japan. 1 right now in japan of the Adult Population there has at least one shot. That chart, that one you got up there is so fascinating. Gaza and in terms of the population that is vaccinated. That is the denominator there. But israel, uk and United States, those are place thats had bad outbreaks. Had a tough time. If you look at japan or germany, like they did a much better job suppressing the virus. But its Topsy Turvy In Terms who have is vaccinating and what countries are doing a better job. I think interesting, too, you note the uk versus u. S. Here. Keep in mind this is at least one dose. Because the way they stressed this the rollout in the uk has been to get everybody at least one dose. And in some cases kind of put off that second dose. If you look at the fully vaccinated numbers, the u. S. Would actually vault past the uk on that one. Yeah. Among large countries, were up near the top. Steve kornacki, fantastic. Thank you for joining us tonight. Thank you, chris. All right. Massive arrests in ben rooedz on what the Biden Administration can do next. Biden agedministra can do next. Fort in your hands or feet . Introducing Nervive Nerve Relief from the worlds number 1 selling nerve care company. As we age, natural changes to our nerves occur which can lead to occasional discomfort. Nervive contains B Complex Vitamins that nourish nerves, build Nerve Insulation and enhance nerve communication. And, alphalipoic acid, which relieves occasional nerve aches, weakness and discomfort. Live your life with less Nerve Discomfort with Nervive Nerve Relief. [music and Sound Effects played in reverse] this. Is our shot. The covid19 vaccines are ready. And so is walgreens, with Pharmacy Experts ready to make it easy for you to get it safely, for free. Because this is our shot. At getting back together. Because this is our shot. Is your family ready for an emergency . You can prepare by mapping out two ways to escape your home, creating a supply kit, and including your whole family in practice drills. For help creating an emergency plan, visit safetyactioncenter. Pge. Com a little preparation will make you and your family safer in an emergency. A weeks worth of food and water, radio, flashlight, batteries and First Aid Kit are a good start to learn more, visit safetyactioncenter. Pge. Com thousands and thousands of people took to the streets across russia today to protest the treatment of imprisoned Opposition Leader Alexei Navalny. His health is failing. There is real concern he is slowly being killed by russian president Vladimir Putin in front of the world. People gathered in towns chanting, putin is a thief. In the capital city of moscow, people chanted, get a doctor to navalny. His wife also took to the streets. One Human Rights Group says 1,500 people were arrested in russia as the government cracked down on protesters. Incredibly brave, what those folks are doing. Theres a new administration in the white house that is no longer openly deferential to Vladimir Putin but still, theres the same set of intractable problems between the two countries. The Biden Administration imposed new sanctions on russia. Nearly 100,000 Russian Troops are on the border. How does the u. S. Manage to create some kind of workable bilateral relationship with putins russia . Ben rhodes served as the Deputy National security adviser for Strategic Communications under president barack obama. He has closely been following developments in russia and tweeted out, its hard to capture the profound sadism and broad ramifications of slowly killing your most powerful and popular opponent in front of the entire world. Ben rhodes joins me now. You know, ben, i think obviously this relationship was very strange under donald trump. His deference to putin was very strange. His refusal to criticize. But it is also always the case that the difficulty of this relationship was deeper than trump. And youre really seeing that now. Its like, okay, trumps gone and we can, you know, do sanctions and we can call out human rights abuses, but i dont know how much that changes russian behavior. Like, how do you see the path forward here . Well, first of all, putin tends to make the decisions that he thinks are in his best decisions for his own domestic political standing. The u. S. Has tried pressure and hes done what he wanted to do whether its in places like ukraine or syria. Weve tried to have resets with the relationship with russia and hes still done those things. We have to understand putin is going to make these judgments, particularly about how he treats his people at home, on his own. But we can impose a cost. Because part of what putin is doing, part of what i was referring to in that tweet, was not just strangling russian opposition in civil so the. Hes been in the vanguard of authoritarianism thats spread Around The World as well. Its important for the u. S. To take a stand against that authoritarianism which weve seen reaching our own country. It keeps being a problem, russia is a nuclear power. So, you know, when you talk about eastern ukraine, they basically straight up stole crimea, it was an international crime, to go and take another country. They thought for their own security, it was worth the cost. Were not going to go to war with a nuclear power, they know that. Whats the answer to the then what question . To me the answer is that we take the work that Alexei Navalny is doing and we do things that are not only necessary to confront putin but also to uphold the things we care about Around The World. What do i mean by this . Alexei navalny has successful because he successfully opposed putins inner circle. He released a video about a house that putin owns thats the most expensive house in the world. If the United States government wanted to reveal the full extent of Vladimir Putins corruption and that of his circle, we could do that. If the United States of america wanted to spend much more resources cracking down on Money Laundering, on the trafficking of dark money through the American Financial system that supports the oligarchy of not just Vladimir Putin but some of his likeminded friends Around The World, we could do that. So to me its about going on offense, not necessarily just against putin himself, but against the brand of corruption that he represents. That navalny and his supporters in the streets are so frustrated with. Thats something we have not yet done and could do. So i want to make an argument on the other side, just as devils advocate, because its a thorny problem. We need a modus vendi against russia, a nuclear power. We dont want nuclear war. So were sort of cause in an escalatory game here. Its like, lets find an offramp, heres a summit. The things youre describing keep us in the escalatory loop. Im just gaming out, is there a way that we unilaterally bring the relationship into something more functional or is that just not possible . Im not sure, chris, that its possible with Vladimir Putin running russia. And we have to recognize, thats because of Vladimir Putin, not because of us. That said, i dont think we should be looking to go to war here, i dont think we should be looking for cyber escalation upon escalation. The big, complex relationship between the u. S. And russia has enabled for corruption sorry, for cooperation on things like the Iran Nuclear Deal or nuclear arms control, at the same time were confronting each other in other areas. Again, i do think we have to do certain things because we care about them not just in russia, but globally. The reason to go after corruption and autocracy is not because were seeking to get rid of putin in russia. Its because were seeking to get rid of those things globally. The United States can take a stand for those principles, not just in opposition to putin, but anywhere. The point about Money Laundering is really, really, really well said. That is all in on this wednesday night. The Rachel Maddow show starts right now. Good evening, rachel. Good evening, chris, thanks, my friend, much appreciated. And thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. Happy to have you here. A big news day today, President Biden announcing we just hit 200 million doses of vaccine administered. You will recall he initially said he wanted 100 million shots to be administered in his first 100 days as president. Then when he hit that really early, he doubled the goal and said, okay, not 100 million shots but 200 million shots in 100 days. Todays announcement means that he hit that, evenha

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