Gathering of gop lawmakers and donors teasing a possible candidacy for 2024 reiterating election lies and slamming Mitch Mcconnell as a, quote, dumb s. O. B. And a, quote, stonecold loser. Dang. Trump also said that mike pence wasnt a, quote, real leader because he refused to seal the election for trump. The same lie that very nearly got pence killed on january 6th. He also continued to claim that he won the election. The same lie that did get five People Killed that day. Trump made these comments while headlining the Republican National committees retreat which they held at maralago, trumps private club. The rnc is not only listening to the same man who lost them the house, the senate, the white house and incited an insurrection and got impeached twice, theyre subsidizing him. What is going on with the party of lincoln . Joining me now is Michael Steele, msnbc contributor and, more importantly, former chairman of the Republican National committee. Chairman steele, welcome back to The Sunday Show. Great to be with you this morning. All right. So answer the question. What is going on with your party, with the party of lincoln, assuming you still are a member of the Republican Party . I am a member of the Republican Party. I very much am behind the party of lincoln, but this is not the party of lincoln. This is the party of trump. We all know this. And what we heard and saw, what has been at least reported out of that gathering at maralago is just the further dumbing down and just sort of stupification of folks when it comes to trump. Im less interested in what trump said in the room. Im more interested in how the people in the room reacted to what he said. And thats where the problem is. Donald trump can run his mouth because donald trump is going to run his mouth. Its how the leadership of the party responds to what he says. So the rnc ponies up 100,000 because nobody else is paying trump 100,000 to do jack, right . So thats number one. Number two, they get in the room so they bring in these republican donors, republican legislators and then donald trump rails against them at a dinner that they paid for. Hes going after their leadership. And hes continuing to mime on the same points about the election. What was their response and reaction . I suspect it was whooping it up with them. This is the party of trump, not the party of lincoln. Its a party of trump, not the party of lincoln, but the Republican Party is still, to my mind, way out there. I dont understand whats happening. Senate Minority Leader Mitch Mcconnell is, by no means, a member of the party of trump and yet when it came to corporations taking a stand in favor of Voting Rights and against the Voter Suppression bills happening around the country, heres what he had to say to the business community. I found it completely discouraging to find a bunch of corporate ceos getting in the middle of politics. My advice to the corporate ceos of america is to stay out of politics. Dont pick sides in these big fights. Okay. Now in fairness to the Minority Leader, he did try to walk that back because he was like, uh, but still give us money. Political contributions. Thats the point. And he wasnt complaining about all that corporate involvement in politics when they were pushing through the, you know, 1. 9 trillion tax cut. They were very much involved with that. So, you know, its i want you involved when it works for me, and the sound bites are good for me. I dont want you involved when they dont. And thats fine. That politicians kind of do that. But the reality still remains for the Republican Party is that all of those traditional linkages that theyve had, whether its in the corporate community, among activists around the country, that are not trumpified, the Party Infrastructure itself, theres consistent breakdowns in that. And so the question is, how do you hold it together . Uhhuh. All right. Ive got two questions for you before we broaden this out to the panel. One, why is the party going after trans kids, going after Voting Rights, basically telling people, dont wear masks. Beware of Quote Unquote Vaccine Passports. Why are they so much talking about what they are against . Wheres the positive Republican Party agenda for america . Why isnt there one . You cant have a positive, you know, republican agenda for america when you dont even have a platform that identifies to america what you believe, what you stand for. So number one, the party gave that up in 2020 when they said, oh, well just believe whatever donald trump wants us to believe. So there is no theres no there, there. Two, with respect to transgender children, the votes, whatever it is, that is a combination of both politics and culture. And what they are continuing to do is to mix that deadly brew together in such a way as to prey on the concerns that, you know, families have about, you know, somebody elses transgender child. Insane. Ive got to get you on one more thing and this involves your buddy, the former speaker of the house, john boehner. Just want to get your reaction to this little snippet from his audiobook. Have a listen. Take it from me. Youll never know where youll end up. Thats freedom. Ill raise a glass to that any day. P. S. , ted cruz, go [ bleep ] yourself. Chairman steele thats my boy. I almost cursed on national tv, but he has zero fs to give it would seem. None. Why do you think the former speaker has just been so honest in his new book . Because without the weight of the office and the protocols and politics that that requires, he is free. Hes right. He is the most freed hes ever been, and he is seeing he saw firsthand what was happening to the party and could not stop it. And so now hes just putting out the warning flairs. This is what it is. This is who these people are, like ted cruz. And he wants it to be very clear about that. So i toast to him every time i read a chapter from that book. Its just amazing chairman steele, help me get Speaker Boehner on my podcast. Joining our conversation now is Soledad Obrien, president and ceo of Soledad Obrien productions and perry bacon jr. , senior Political Writer for fivethirtyeight. Com. Perry, you had this great piece in fivethirtyeight about the state of the Republican Party. Chairman steele was just talking about how Speaker Boehners book is sending up a flare about whats coming for the party. To my mind it seems like the party is foregone. Its done. You said Mitch Mcconnell is not really part of the party of trump. I disagree with that. I think the last four years show most of the Quote Unquote Establishment Republicans who are actually in office, are fully in line with trump and trumpism. Maybe they wouldnt use the language they trump uses. They wouldnt say go back to your country. They wouldnt use that rhetoric, but in terms of the actual policies, Mitch Mcconnell is fully on board. All the republicans are defending this georgia law, for example, from all wings of the party essentially. The Republican Party is pretty organized and actually has some policies which are basically, how do we maintain the existing racial and economic status quo . So you follow the state policy around the country. They have an agenda. You know, make it harder for black lives matter people to protest. Cut taxes. Weaken public schools. They have an agenda they are passing like make it harder for people to vote in states all over iowa, florida, georgia, arizona. These voter laws are passing everywhere. So they have an agenda. Its just one to basically own and stop the left. And one reason theyre so confident in pushing this is we havent come that far. We have a democratic trifecta, but the republicans almost won the senate, almost won the house. Trump almost won the presidency. And they gained among latino voters a lot in 2020. So one reason why they are continuing on a course that is in some ways immoral and racist is because this course is not as bad electorally as i thought it would have been. Right. And i stand corrected. I guess i was giving the Minority Leader just a little too much credit because even though he voted against impeachment, he did rip on the former guy. Soledad, your view. What is going on with the Republican Party and is it done . No, i think its far from done. I think perry is exactly right. I think Michael Steele is exactly right. You have a party that recognizes the value of donald trump. Let him say those things that are bigoted and racist and sometimes distasteful as long as you can run in later and gather up those voters and make sure that you get the, you know, as you can see, i think trumps fundraising is often quite good when youre talking about the lowdollar people that continue to send in money. Not the times that its fraudulent but the other times, right . The party sees a tremendous value in donald trump and so they need to keep him a little bit of arms length but also make sure that theyre kind of friendly at the same time. I agree. Perry is exactly right. All those things he ticked off are those very things that the party itself is very interested in. So i think its a winwin. Youre talking about culture wars. I dont even think its culture wars post politics. Well talk so much more about dr. Seuss than we will talk about eradicating child poverty, right . Were not going to go through the detail of a policy but we will start a congressman can sit up there and talk about Green Eggs And Ham and everyone will cover it. Thats a win when it comes to these conversations. Speaking of win, chairman steele, in the less than a minute we have left. Soledad just mentioned fundraising. Theyre all clutching to former President Trump because they need him to raise money. Marjorie Taylor Greene with no Committee Assignments because of Conspiracy Theoies and race uft things she said. She reported she raised 3. 2 million in the last quarter. 98 of that money came from donations that are under 200. So does that actually feed into what perry was saying and what soledad was agreeing about and that is, you know, the Republican Party isnt done and that actually there is a ground swell there for the Conspiracy Theorists for the racists in the party to actually take over the house and the senate in 2022. Oh, absolutely. I was talking with a number of fundraisers this week who were talking about that Small Dollar Program that they have in place. And it is very effective. And it is the extremes that are raising the money. You know, the Adam Kinzingers and folks like that, theyre doing okay, you know, but theyre not raising 3 million in 30 days. Thats the difference. And so to soledads point, thats where the culture wars come in. Thats the Culture Fight played out and realized in the dollars that are raised. Understand this, this is all very cynical. At the end of the day, they dont give a rats batooty about these issues. Marjorie Taylor Greene is just a jacked up congresswoman wannabe who is as crazy as hell but can raise 3 million. Whereas common sense, focused, disciplined sort of, i want to try to govern the country type of republicanism is trying to eke along a dollar at a time. So that kind of tells you where the dollar fight is and the trumpists are winning. Chairman steele, rats batooty, well have to chat offline. Its sunday. Soledad obrien, Michael Steele and perry bacon jr. Coming up next hour, a look at the latest controversial body cam video. A traffic stop involving an army officer. Up next, the rights fight against socalled Vaccine Passports. What you need to know and why. You dont want to miss this. So when her car got hit, she didnt waste any time. She filed a claim on her usaa app and said, that was easy. usaa. What youre made of, were made for. Usaa. Oh. Whats going on . Oh, darn let me help. Usaa. What youre made of, were made for. Lift and push and push there. Its up there. Hey joshie. Wrinkles send the wrong message. Help prevent them before they start with downy wrinkleguard. Stay restless with the icon that does the same. The rx crafted by lexus. Get 0. 9 Apr Financing on the 2021 rx 350 experience amazing at your lexus dealer. We started with computers. We didnt stop at computers. We didnt stop at storage or cloud. We kept going. Working with our customers to enable the kind of technology that can guide an astronaut back to safety. And help make a hospital come to you, instead of you going to it. So when it comes to your business, you know well stop at nothing. So youre a small business, so when it comes to or a big one. , you were thriving, but then. Oh. Ah. Okay. Plan, pivot. How do you bounce back . You dont, you bounce forward, with serious and reliable internet. Powered by the largest gig Speed Network in america. But is it secure . Sure its secure. And even if the power goes down, your connection doesnt. So how do i do this . You dont do this. We do this, together. Bounce forward, with comcast business. Its completely unacceptable for either the government or the private sector to impose upon you the requirement that you show proof of vaccine to just simply be able to participate in normal society. You want the fox to guard the hen house . Give me a break. This discussion of Vaccine Passports and all the rest of that just sounds to me like another idea of Big Government run amok. A Nightmare Orwellian infrastructure of control. An unprecedented, undemocratic power grab by big business, Big Government, big bureaucracy. No, no, no. Folks on the right are losing their minds over just the thought of Vaccine Passports. For all the outrage, youd think that this was on President Bidens agenda. But its not. The government is not now nor will we be supporting a system that requires americans to carry a credential. So far just one state has offered this type of credential. New york states excelsior pass. Joining me is jody gerut and dr. Ezekiel emanuel, former Obama White House Health Policy adviser and author of which country has the worlds best health care. Thank you both for being here to have this conversation about Vaccine Passports. Im going to star with you, dr. Emanuel. From what i understand, you are in favor of Vaccine Passports. What is a Vaccine Passport, and why do you think its a good idea . First of all, i separate whether i think its a good idea or not. Its here. Its coming, its inevitable. Second, we use Vaccination Certification all the time for kids to go to school. I have my yellow fever certification to travel to certain countries. Other people have it. And i think we are going to need reassurance, for example, if i go into the hospital. Id like to know that people are actually vaccinated. I dont get sicker from going to the hospital than not. If i go to the theater, if i go to a sporting event. So youll have these things. But we have to make sure that they are done ethically. I dont think its a question of will we have it, wont we have it. Were going to have it, if only for International Travel and probably domestic travel. And the question is to do it ethically, not whether to have it. Thats the false discussion. And one more question, dr. Emanuel. What about the pushback from the right as we saw in that montage. This is orwellian and the government is having all your information and tracking you. Should anyone have any concern about that . Well, thats part of doing it ethically. I dont think we should have the government be looking into it and matching, you know, Vaccine Passports with immigration or Vaccine Passports with taxation. That would be wrong. Similarly, i think it would be wrong if google did it or facebook did it and then commercialized it and, you know, plugged your information. I think all of those things are part of the safeguards we need. And we have to have. And spending time, wasting time saying youre infringing my freedom. You dont have a freedom to be infectious and spread it around society and endanger my life. That is false freedom. Remember, our Founding Fathers didnt talk about liberty, do whatever you want. They talked about ordered liberty and part of ordered liberty is people actually doing things that protect their fellow citizens. And that is key that the Republican Party seems to have forgotten. You know, laurie, youre sort of on The Other Side of this. You have a passport, but you dont think that theyll actually work. Talk about why. There it is on your on my phone. On my phone, jonathan. And curiously, it says, it expires on may 1st. So i have no idea what is the point of this idiotic thing. Theres no place that allegedly i can show it. No foreign country recognizes the New York State qr code as proof that ive been vaccinated. It doesnt make a whole heck of a lot of sense to me. But, you know, i come im old enough that i come from the era when i had one of these inside my passport. I have one of those, too. And it has multiple vaccines, not one or two or three or four. It has pages of vaccines that have been administered in my lifetime. And i actually was thrown in a jail cell in one african country because this had fallen out of my passport and i didnt have it to show as i entered the country. These were very rigidly adhered to, but they were also easy to make fraudulently. As you can see, its just paper. Right. Anybody with a Printing Press can make one of these things. And all sorts of people could pretend to be doctors and have these stamps to put in to say that youd had vaccines. And so actually, by the turn of the 21st century, most of the countries that were members of the World Health Assembly said its not working. Weve got make yellow fever passes all over africa. Weve got fake meningitis passes all over africa and fake yellow cards all over the world. Theyve all been fraudulently administered. Lets get rid of this. Lets narrow it down. Lets focus on yellow fever and create the International Health regulations. And so we stepped away from that entire approach because the truth was that, number one, it was overwhelmingly fraudulent and number two, a lot of people were able to get around it based on your nationality when they crossed into a country. I as a white person got questioned less frequently than my cotravelers who were people of color. They were never administered fairly and justly. You were more likely to be denied entry to a country or thrown into jail if you were from some country that the place you were going to didnt like. And so right. I dont see the purpose of it. I certainly dont have any idea how between now and may 1st im going to use this darn thing. So laurie then, if theyre fraudulent, they dont work, to dr. Emanuels point, how will people know whether its safe to go into a hospital, go into a restaurant or should we just live with the live with covid in the same way we live with the flu every year . Get the vaccine and hope for the best . Look, what i find very curious about the right wing assault is that theres this mistaken assumption that its government that wants to do this. But actually, its employers. Its big business. Its a lot of places that want to put people in the seats. And they want some way of saying that ive safely put people in the seats and i can pack the seats. I can fill the auditorium. I can fill the office and so on. And so i think if theres likely to be inappropriate use or excessive use of some form of vaccine pass, its really going to be more financially driven than anything to do with government watchdogs. And will it work . Well, well see. But i think we have to be more adult about all of this. And i know zeke would agree with me because ive heard him say this many times before. The vaccination is not so much about you as it is about the community you live in. And if youre so selfish that you only identify with vaccination as selfprotection and your right to move around freely then youre missing the entire point. The point of vaccination is the total population. Its lowering chance that everyone in america will get this disease. And if you cant all get on board, then we lose the game. Dr. Emanuel, im giving you the last word. Real fast. Laurie and i have heated agreement. These things are going to be there. The question is to make them good and to make them not about financial gain for big business. And there, i do think theres a role for government to make sure that we can actually use them and theyre fair. All right. Were going to have to leave it there. Laurie garrett, dr. Ezekiel emanuel, thank you for coming to The Sunday Show. We still have the man himself, Senate Minority leader harry reid. Stay with us. This is a cold call. Yeah, what yall want . Will you turn to cold washing with tide . 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Welcome back to The Sunday Show. Joining me is donna edwards, former congresswoman from maryland, and kurt bardella. There you are. Both of you saw the first half hour of our show. What are your thoughts . Former Congresswoman Edwards, you go first. Wow, you know, i was struck by former chairman Michael Steele. Poor thing. Always wishing for that Republican Party that simply doesnt exist anymore and is not likely to be reincarnated any time soon. And kurt . I mean, thats your former party. Yes. I was struck by mr. Steeles use of the words rat batooty. I dont envy him having to come on for that label. Hoping one day he might decide to join me in leaving the Republican Party and in my case, i became a democrat. I would love to get both of you to talk about if you have any thoughts on the whole Vaccine Passport issue. Im sort of i can see how it might be useful. I can see how its not useful. I mean, Laurie Garrett pulled out her yellow card with all those vaccinations. Ive got that yellow card, too, but i only have one vaccination on it and its from almost ten years ago when i went to kenya and got the malaria vaccine. Should people get a Vaccine Passport if one is available, Congresswoman Edwards . You know, this is such a tricky one. Look, im carrying around my card that says that ive had my two covid vaccines. I dont know when ill take it out of my handbag, but ive got it for now. I think that if both employers and people in communities are trying to just figure out a way that they feel safe in their communities and i think right now with so many people still declining to get the vaccine, that its a real mixed bag when youre packed on an airplane in an airliner with people you dont know have had the vaccine or not. And its not about me. Its about them. Have you been on a plane . Not yet. Okay. But i want to because now ive had the vaccine, but it still troubles me. Im likely to just be in my rv for the near term. Oh, thats right. Youre madam rv. That would be a fun little rolling sunday show. We should try to do that. Kurt, would you get a Vaccine Passport . What are your views on it . Absolutely, i would. I think that whats unique about this time is were dealing with something that has affected in some way, shape or form every Single Person living in this country and really on this planet. And when the disturbing things throughout this past year is one of the Political Parties in this country has built their entire rhetoric on doubting science. On doubting fact. On mocking common sense things. The fact that theres even the discussion right now about whether or not people want to take the vaccine is crazy to me. But one of the things that really stands out to me about this argument playing out and what bothers me is republican argument is completely hypocritical as is just about everything they talk about. I dont remember them worrying about individual rights in post9 11 when they wanted to do things. They targeted middle eastern americans. I dont remember them worrying about rights when they are clamoring for secure i. D. S and real i. D. S and stronger identification to participate in our democratic process. So why is it that now when were talking about something that is to the benefit of all of our communities health, they are playing this false flag game of rights and freedoms and liberties. Its completely inconsistent with when youre talking about this or voting or post9 11. Theyre all over the place. Congresswoman edwards, ill give you the last word. Gee, why are they suddenly, you know, worried about their freedom if they have to get a Vaccine Passport . Jonathan, youre always asking me to explain something that really has no explanation. I mean, i do think, though, that because the party has really the Republican Party and its leadership have been going all out in opposing masks, opposing vaccines, that its now become a culturated within the Republican Party and its unfortunate because all of the rest of us are going to be vaccinated. Theyre all going to be running around getting covid. And im still going to be wearing i got shot one. Im still going to be wearing my mask. Im too scared. Donna and kurt will be back in our next hour. But coming up, former Senate Majority leader harry reid is here. The man who got obamacare through the senate. You might want to hear what he has to say about bidens agenda. Cell phone repair. Did you know Liberty Mutual customizes your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need . Just get a quote at libertymutual. Com. Really . Ill check that out. Oh yeah. I think i might get a quote. Not again aah, come on rice. Do your thing. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. 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Would you be willing to pass the for the peoples act by killing the filibuster . Im not killing the filibuster. Never, ever . I think ive been very clear. It was very clear. I think we can find a pathway forward. I really do. Im going to be sitting down with both sides and understanding where everybody is coming from. But the question remains, can democrats in a bitterly gridlocked senate get anything done if they dont change the filibuster . Joining me now is former democratic Senate Majority leader harry reid. Leader reid, great to see you. Thanks for coming to The Sunday Show. My pleasure. So, what do you make of Senator Manchin and his stance to the filibuster. Theres no way, he wrote in my paper, the Washington Post, theres no way he wants to change or even modify the filibuster. Is that a tenable position . Ive stated, and i believe that its not a question if, its a question when the filibuster goes away. The country cannot operate when it takes 60 of the vote to get everything done. And so i know joe means well. Hes looking at a time that doesnt exist anymore when there was bipartisanship. But you heard senator mcconnell this past few days saying that hes going to do nothing. You know, thats legislation for the democrats. So leader reid, since you mentioned the current Senate Minority leader Mitch Mcconnell, we have some sound that ive been dying to get your reaction to. Have a listen to what he had to say on march 16th. So let me say this very clearly for all 99 of my colleagues. Nobody serving in this chamber can even begin can even begin to imagine what a completely Scorched Earth senate would look like. Everything the Republican Senate did to President Obama would be childs play compared to the disaster that democrats would create for their own priorities if if they break the senate. So leader reid, given what leader mcconnell said there, i mean, those are some dire threats, dire warnings. Should democrats be afraid of Mitch Mcconnell . Remember, hes known as the grim reaper. Hes known as the grim reaper because its almost impossible to get anything done with a Republican Senate. They turn the senate when they had the majority as a Manufacturing Site for judges. They did nothing else. No amendments. No legislation. Nothing whatsoever. What he said there on camera is nothing more than what hes been doing for the last several years. Leader reid, actually when folks talk about democrats wanting to do complaining about the filibuster, republicans turned the fire on you and say youre the reason why were in this state were in because democrats under your leadership did away with the filibuster for executive Branch Nominations and for Lower Federal Court judges. What do you say in response to folks who blame you for where we are right now . Is that even thank you for bringing this up. The republicans for the first time in the history of the country, even were filibustered, the secretary of defense. We had the d. C. Circuit, the second most Important Court in the land, we had vacancies there. They wouldnt allow us to fill them. They couldnt do anything directly so they made the National Labor board so we couldnt get a quorum. Of course we changed the rules. We did it because the country needed it. And as a result of our changing the rules, we had the most Productive Congress in the history of the country. Even more so than the first roosevelt legislation. First time he became president , he had a congress. We were able to pass obamacare. We did it on christmas eve. First time the senate met in 150 years. We passed bills that had been waiting for years. We were able to get things done that needed to be done. And i think that any this crying, oh, its terrible whats going on in the senate, when the fact of the matter is that we did changes, and we did it because it was good for the country. And the country benefited from things we were able to get done. We were able to get his cabinet officers approved, Subcabinet Officers approved. Fix the National Labor relation board. We filled the d. C. Circuit. So i, as i look back, we did it because it was the right thing for the country. And it made obamas First Congress one of the best in the history of the country. Have you been in touch with President Biden or the Biden White House to advise them or have they reached out to you to get your advice on how to navigate this Filibuster Conversation . I talked to the biden folks quite often. Steve, ron klain, i do it because i dont want to be a monday morning quarterback, but they have questions, and i answer them, and i give them some advice. I think that biden is somebody who understands the senate. He has told me many times, dont forget, im a senate guy. Hes a senate guy. In the senate for all those years. He understands the senate. And i think that his first 100 days as president of the United States has proven he knows whats going on. And with that, were going to leave it there. Senate majority leader harry reid, thank you for getting up a little early there in nevada to be with us on The Sunday Show. Thank you very much for allowing me to be on the show. Coming up, Richard Engel joins us live to talk about his Special Report on the January 6th Insurrection. Keep it where it is. Ill be right back. With moderate to severe Crohns Disease, i was there, just not always where i needed to be. Is she alright . I hope so. So i talked to my doctor about humira. I learned humira is for people who still have symptoms of Crohns Disease after trying other medications. The majority of people on humira saw significant symptom relief in as little as 4 weeks. 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Later tonight, Richard Engel will take a closer look at the events that took place during the January 6th Insurrection in on assignment with Richard Engel our house. A joint investigation between nbc news and bellingcat and its volunteers. Joining me is Foreign Correspondent Richard Engel. Thanks for coming to The Sunday Show. Its a real pleasure. I dont think ive done this yet with you. So this is my first time. Good to talk to you. Likewise. Tell us about the assignment. So i think by now, everyone in the United States has seen some of the videos and has some idea of what happened during the capitol assault. But i think a lot of people are still confused by it because theres such an enormous volume of material. Because there is still a movement to deny the importance of what happened and say it was just a bunch of people who got away, lost control of their emotions and went there. But what we did in collaboration with bellingcat is we took all of this video, thousands of hours of video, and police audio and intercepted audio, and we laid it out chronologically and matched like to like. We matched the same event when there were different Camera Angles and matched the audio angles and matched the audio that went to that particular event. And by doing this you start to see patterns. Youre effectively building a mosaic of what happened that day. And when we stood back and looked at that mosaic, we were able to identify key individuals, certain Turning Point moments and try to present a clearer picture to what was undoubtedly a very, very chaotic day. But if you step back from it and you look at it with a little bit of perspective, you do get a fairly clear sense that this was a very, very serious incident indeed. And you cant replace being there and, of course, the officers, the Police Officers who were defending the building had a very upfront perspective. And one of those officers was officer dunn. It was a time, one instance, it was off of the rotunda area. And i was Still Holding the hallway and these people were standing there yelling, so i started talking to them. We started talking about why theyre there and joe biden didnt win the election and its stolen. And i started talking about me voting. I voted for joe biden. Does my vote not count . And one person said, you hear that . This n word voted for joe biden. And they started booing. And the people that were with them joined in with them and said, yeah, this nword, fyou, this n word voted for joe bieds en. F you, f you, boo. Race was a major factor in this. We did an analysis of the hand symbols insignias and flags that were displayed during the insurrection, during the riot, and it showed that many of these, these the people who were there were at least sympathizers of farright militia group, sometimes neonazis. This was not your average group of americans who decided to go out and express their grievances. Richard engel, i have so many questions. Im going to watch the show tonight to get those answers. Be sure to tune in for on assignment with Richard Engel our house 10 00 p. M. Eastern. Coming up, the Derek Chauvin allstar legal panel. Ill ask about the panel stop involving an army officer. Rmy o. And in an emergency, they need a network that puts them first. That connects them to technology, to each other, and to other agencies. Thats why at t built firstnet with and for First Responders the Emergency Response network authorized by congress. Firstnet. Because putting them first is our job. Alice loves the scent of gain so much, she wished there was a way to make it last longer. Say hello to your Fairy Godmother alice. And longlasting gain scent beads. Part of the irresistible scent collection from gain incomparable design makes it beautiful. State of the art technology, makes it brilliant. 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Its time to start a new day. Ask your doctor about oncedaily trelegy. And save at trelegy. Com. Im Draymond Green with my subway sub with tender steak and melty cheese. My sub is gonna dunk all over your sub. Excuse me . My sub has bacon. Choose better be better and now save when you order in the app. Subway eat fresh. But not jaysons sub. You can see his eyes. Hes conscious. And then you see that he isnt. Thats the moment the life goes out of his body. Welcome back to The Sunday Show. Im Jonathan Capehart. They are going to wrap up the trial of Police Officer Derek Chauvin after powerful testimony from an array of experts who address the central question, what caused George Floyds death last may. So if we look at the other contributing conditions, those other contributing conditions are not conditions that you consider direct causes. Is that true . They are not direct causes of mr. Floyds death. Thats true. Theyre contributing causes. And in terms of manner of death, you found then and do you stand by today that the manner of death of mr. Floyd was, as you would call it, homicide . Yes, i would still classify it as a homicide today. Do you have an opinion to a reasonable degree of medical certainty if mr. Floyd would have died that not had he not been subject to the subdual and restraint of the police . There is no evidence to suggest he would have died that night, except for the interactions with Law Enforcement. So how will the defense respond . Well soon find out. Prosecutors are expected to rest their case any day now. Joining me now to discuss, paul butler, former federal prosecutor and author of choke hold. Jill winebanks, Sisters In Law Podcast and author of the watergate girl. And john burris, Criminal Defense and civil rights attorney and author of black versus blue. Thank you all very much for coming to the show today. I want to go to each of you. Were going to start with the prosecution. Give me your, your view of how the prosecution did last week in presenting its case. Paul, you go first. John, first, just to shout out the iconic Jill Winebanks and john burris, they have inspired and broken down barriers for so many of us. And its an honor to be on with them. The progs cushion had another excellent week in a way, thats to be expected because we havent heard from The Other Side. The defense will present its case this week. But the first week of the prosecution, compelling eyewitnesses, all of whom suffered from survivors guilt because they couldnt save George Floyds life. This week the experts these are professional witnesses who know how to do things like look at the jurors when they talk. And what they said is the police experts, that officer chauvin used excessive force. And the medical experts went to the cause of death. Thats the defense. And they said beyond a medical certainty that george floyd was killed by Derek Chauvin. Jill winebanks, do you agree that the prosecution did a good job of presenting its case . First of all, thank you, paul. Thats embarrassing and wonderful. But and im honored to be on with both of you. And i would say not just good, it was great. I cannot think of anything they did or didnt do that should have been done differently. The witnesses actually, dr. Tobin who you showed a video of, if he had been my Science Teacher at any point in my life, id probably be a doctor instead of a lawyer. He was amazing both as a witness in explaining and as he unbuttoned his collar and said, feel for your hypothalamus. He was amazing. Theres no one who can combat that. So if the defense now puts on witnesses to counterdict what was said, if they put on an expert who said, no it was definitely his heart, i think these witnesses have left an indelible memory in the minds of the jury and they cannot be overridden. So i think it was an excellent couple of weeks for the prosecution. And so, then, mr. Burris, as the Criminal Defense attorney here, what do you make of the prosecutions case . Well, the prosecution put on a very, very strong case, theres no doubt about it. From the defense point of view, thats just the beginning. Its a start. Now its going to be up to the defense to determine how they can poke holes in the case. And i think first you have to stick with the medical testimony theyve always been concerned about and have their own expert become a battle of the experts. Youre only looking for reasonable doubt. You dont have to convince all 12. And the medical examiner for the city, in fact, county gave them some evidence to suggest he had a real problem with the cause of death at the very beginning. So there is basically a start forward. On balance the prosecution did a great, great job having put on this type of case in the past, i know how important it is to have your expert witnesses to be in sync. The biggest of all this was having all these Police Officers testify. That will have the greatest impact on these individual jurors because they have never heard nor have i seen so many Police Officers testify against another Police Officer. So the defense the prosecution put on a great, great test. Its not over till its over. So now lets talk about the defense and im going to stick with you. Mr. Burruss, did the prosecution do a good job in prebutting what the defense is going to argue when it makes its case starting next week . Well, obviously the medical testimony, it was predicted it was going to be about cause of death and causation. So i think that the prosecution did a lot there. But having been there and listened, we know there will be other experts who have credentials that will come forward and give a different statement, and that statement will sound as reasonable as the statements that the prosecution has presented. In my way of thinking, sure, they did a good job trying to preempt it. The defense has a good chance to put forth their case. Im not so certain they can prevail here. I think the question ultimately is going to be going ultimately to the question of disproving that chauvin had the intent. That statement is buttressed by the fact he said afterwards he was a very strong guy and trying to keep him under control. Jurors hear that statement. They think of nothing else, whether or not he intended to hurt this man or kill this man, but he had concern about him being under control. If im the defense im looking at it from that point of view. Paul, i want to have you listen to Defense Attorney Nelson and one of his hypotheticals that he put out there. Have a listen. Lets assume you found mr. Floyd dead in his residence, no police involvement, no drugs, right. The only thing you found would be these facts about his heart. What would you conclude to be the cause of death . In that very narrow set of circumstances, i would probably conclude that the cause of death was his heart disease. I could be laying by the pool in florida, right . Right. On my stomach in the prone position, not inherently dangerous. Right. And there could be a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. What is he doing . Hes being a bad lawyer to my law students. Kids, dont try this at all. Jonathan, the autopsy says the cause of floyds death was failure of his heart and lungs. It doesnt use the word asphyxia, which is the prosecutions theory. So all the other medical experts other than the medical examiner say asphyxia. The defense is trying to exploit the jury that these well qualified experts cant agree on what killed mr. Floyd, thats reasonable death. The thing is the medical examiners testimony doesnt give the defense a lot to work with. He reinforced what all the other medical experts have said that george floyd would not have died on memorial day 2020 but for his fatal encounter with Derek Chauvin. Panel, im going to switch gears here for something that is truly bothersome. Last week i said during my by line, there is nothing more nightmarish for an africanamerican, particularly an africanamerican man than a traffic stop. So as the nation is riveted by the trial were talking about, new video has emerged of an army officer being held at gunpoint by two Police Officers in windsor, virginia, during a traffic stop in december. Get out of the car. Whats going on . Get out of the car now. Whats going on . Whats going on is youre fixing to ride the lightning, son. Get out the car. You received an order. Obey it. Im honestly afraid to get out. You should be. Get out. Can i tell you how enraging that is . Second lieutenant Caron Nazario said he was pulled over for not having a License Plate. He admits not pulling over and driving a short distance until he could find a well lit spot. Thank god he did. Video of the incident provided by nazarios attorney shows police with their guns drawn, administering pepper spray, handcuffing nazario. He has filed a lawsuit against the officers. Nbc reached out to the Police Department in windsor, virginia, but has not received a response. Jill winebanks, from what i understand, you had you changed your pin that you were wearing you were going to wear on the show this morning. You changed it to black lives matter. I want everyone to react to what we just saw, but, jill, you go first. It was horrifying. It is a constant reminder of the danger of driving while black, of walking while black, of jogging while black. We have to do something to stop this. No one who looks like me would have been subjected to that. He drove for about one mile to get to a lighted area, which is a completely justifiable thing. He put his own camera on his dashboard and recorded what was happening, as did obviously the body cams, and it looks to me like there must have been a cam in the gas station from the angle. Umhmm. Theres just nothing to be said about the appropriateness of what happened. The reference to the lightning has to do with the electric chair. And thats a pretty serious threat. And then they threatened him with ruining his army career. This was a man in uniform who had done nothing, and the License Plate is visible in the video that you see. So they had no reason to even pull him over. And then to get out and pull a gun . Its unspeakable. It is just horrible. And at a time when were going through the George Floyd Murder trial of Derek Chauvin, nothing could be more compelling to say we have to do something about policing in america. Mr. Burris, the other thing that is so terrifying to me just give me a moment here, because i avoided watching any of that video for days now because thats my biggest fear. And what happened to that army officer, they tell him to get out of the car, but they also tell him to put his hands out the window, but they also they give him conflicting information and thats why i said, thank god he went to a lighted spot because imagine if they were on a darkened part of the road, what would have happened to him if he had complied. And im sick and tired of hearing people, particularly white people, well, if only they complied. If you do what they say youll be fine. And we see right there, no, not even an army uniform can protect you from Law Enforcement. Mr. Burris. No question about it. This is not an atypical situation, i can guarantee you. This happened here, but it happens all throughout the United States. In many cases like this, i can tell you that a minor case like this could have a very tragic incident. This young man could have been shot and killed, the wrong move at the point in time. Pulling their guns out was totally, totally inappropriate because once you pull your guns out, youre leaving yourself very few options and that option, if the person says something you dont like or does some move you dont like, the first thing you do is shoot and kill them. This was to me a very outrageous situation and it was appropriate that the person moved and got to a lighted place. At the same time, it was a confusing situation. This requires this department to go back and talk to this officer these officers and make sure these officers do not give conflicting instructions. Thats how you get People Killed. They dont know how to handle it, what next to do. So for me it was very dangerous situation potentially, and more importantly, its the kind of thing that happens routinely in a lot of suburban areas. Paul, im going to give you the last word quickly. It wasnt lost on me we also saw in the Derek Chauvin trial guns were pulled on george floyd the moment they got to his car window. Paul, last word to you. These two officers who engaged in this racial profiling and excessive force, every day that they remain in the streets is a dangerous day for people of color in virginia. Theres got to be an independent investigation. This Police Department has not been transparent or accountable. It cannot be trusted to police itself. Absolutely. And with that were going to have to leave it there. Paul butler, Jill Winebanks, mr. Burris, thank you for coming to The Sunday Show. Coming up, a tough conversation you asked for. Well be right back. Ed for well be right back. Kraft. For the win win. Age is just a number. And mines unlisted. Try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health. Versus 16 grams in ensure high protein. Boost® high protein also has key nutrients for immune support. Boost® high protein. 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I won these Bluetooth Headphones for 20. I got these three suitcases for less than 40. And shipping is always free. Go to dealdash. Com right now and see how much you can save. Over the past year, 3800 such incidents have been reported. Two of three by women. Racism is real in america, and it has always been. Xenophobia is real in america, and always has been. Sexism, too. A few weeks ago in my byline, i addressed the surge in hate crimes against the Asian American community and the deadly shooting in atlanta targeting mostly women of asian descent by a white man. Afterwards i was flooded with feedback asking, what about hate crimes towards Asian Americans perpetrated by black people . And its prompted a conversation i think we need to have. Some of the most widely circulated footage of the antiasian attacks have been black perpetrators. Joining me is president of emerge and lynn nguyen of run aapi. Thank you both for being here and youre here because you both penned an oped in usa today head lined, how black and Asian American women are working together to overcome racism. And i wanted you for this segment to talk about this because i do think we need to talk about this. And if anything, so that the folks who are all up in my feed saying, hey, but what about black people to deflect from what happened in atlanta, to hear that what theyre pushing isnt being bought by a lot of people. Lynn, you start. Right, right. I appreciate this, jonathan. I mean, i think whats so fascinating for a lot of us ashanti after atlanta happened were some of the first to reach out to me and ask, how are we showing up for our asian sisters . I think whats most troubling in this moment is that like this conversation on inter sectionality, what this means for asian, Asian Americans, its often kind of kept in this political activist educated bubble, right. Some of the hardest conversations ive had in the last few weeks, its been with my own parents, right. With our family members, relatives, and actually naming this antiblackness that has existed for a very long time, right. Its those conversations, the grassroots, like going into the community and having those conversations are going to be some of the hardest work that we do. And, ashanti, im going to read from the oped. And this is the key line that made me say, i need to have these two women on the show to talk about this. And you write, in the wake of recent of a recent spike of antiasian violence and with little evidence, many have begun to point to a divide between black and Asian Americans as the real issue facing our communities instead of naming the true culprit, White Supremacy. Talk more about that. I sure will. Thank you for having us. The fact is im one of those americans who is outraged at the violence that is happening against the asian community, and im one of those black americans who is really upset that yet again this dangerous narrative was reemerging that there is a divide between the black and asian communities because i know its not true. When we look at black lives matter and stop asian hate, we have been showing up for each other. When i look at my friendships, lynn and i met two years ago. She immediately became family. And weve been working together to increase the representation of more black and asian women in politics. And i look at the work that we do at emerge. Im the first black woman to lead this organization. I took over right when the pandemic hit. And the first Public Statement i had us put out was standing in solidarity with the asian community. We have had conversations in our network about how to support asian women. It is important for us to live our values. The reality here is what is dividing our communities is White Supremacy. This is another tactic to not own up to the fact that White Supremacy is the biggest threat, not only to our communities, but to our country. And lynn and i were not going to let people once again use these attacks as a way to other us and to make us seem like we are not americans and we dont belong in this country. Our communities are strong. Black and asian women have been standing together in solidarity for generations. And lynn and i are part of that Me Generation that is going to continue to stand together. And you also write in the oped, lynn, black and asian women, to your point, ashanti, black and asian women know what it means to be othered. We each had harmful stereotypes cast upon us that continued to affect our lives today. Right, right. And again, its like these false stereotypes are so violent. They hurt us. They hurt black women, they hurt asian women. Right. And whether its the fetishization of asian women or the trope of the angry black woman. Were almost like in this constant motion of having to tell our own stories, of having to validate our own experiences. You know, even our own histories are falsified. Theyre often falsified by white people all the time. So its the shared emotional exhaustion. You know. I will say whats also unique with asian and asian women at this time, its for the first time people are looking into our history. Theyre asking about our culture, you know. Again, i think of how complex the entire api umbrella looks like. Right. For a lot of us, we often question each other and ask what does it even mean to be asian in a country like america, right . What does it mean to be asian in georgia, in texas, in Southern States . Our identity is just so nuanced that, again, it makes this issue of being able to talk on antiasian violence and naming it for what it is that much more complicated. You know, one of the things that also, you know, came up in my reading about all of this is how the right and conservatives are pitting us against each other when it comes to Higher Education and trying to use Asian Americans to blow up or do away with Affirmative Action Programs or race conscious programs, particularly in the Ivy League Colleges and universities as a way of achieving their own ends. I would love both of you to give me your view real quickly about being used in that way. Ashanti. Again, its another tactic of White Supremacy. Youre the good asian. Youre the good black. You are who we need in this country. You are who we need in society. Its also ways that they just try to pit us against our own people in our community. Oh, youre the right black person. Youre the right asian person. And we need not to give in to those types of stereotypes. It is another tool and tactic of White Supremacy. There is no one right way to be black. There is no one right way to be asian. We are who we are. Our communities are diverse. We are americans and we just really need to make sure that we are doing everything that we can to keep our eye on the real issue at hand which is, again, White Supremacy and we need not be burdened by all of these distractions. Real fast, lynn, last word to you. Yeah, i will say, i mean, this is White Supremacy and this is the Model Minority Myth in full action, right. This is a system thats meant to pit us against one another, thats meant to oppress us and yet at the same time theres a lot of folks who just still arent ready to name this, right. We think of how complicated the asian identity is in america and there are some who just simply want to stay silent. They want to stay invisible, right. My parents still dont know why we choose to speak up and challenge our system because this is how it should be, right . Its just years of needing to dismantle the assimilation, of just needing to survive, you know. Again, like i think of what this moment means not just for asians in the rise of antiasian violence, but what this past year has meant with us trying to survive through this pandemic, right. So its a moment where its a lot for a lot of us. Umhmm. Well, if the future is in the hands of the young and the future is female, we are in great hands with the two of you. Thank you, ashanti and lynn nguyen. Thank you for coming to The Sunday Show. Coming up, we go on the run with the former detective, d. A. And lawyer who is gunning for a new jersey congressional seat. Keep it right here. Sional seat. Keep it right here ice t, stone cold calling on everyone to turn to cold washing with tide. This is a cold call hello, my name is ice t. Can you spare a few seconds to learn about cold water washing with tide . Hi my name is steve. Did you know washing in cold can save you 100 a year on your energy bill. Why wouldnt you turn to cold . It helps the environment. What . Because stone cold said so. Plus, tide cleans great in cold. This was a cold call we started with computers. We didnt stop at computers. We didnt stop at storage or cloud. We kept going. Working with our customers to enable the kind of technology that can guide an astronaut back to safety. And help make a hospital come to you, instead of you going to it. So when it comes to your business, you know well stop at nothing. When i was 19 i dealt with racial profiling. It changed my life. I experienced what so many members of the black community go through every day with policing. That only motivated me to pursue a lifelong career in Law Enforcement. Now after proudly serving as a Law Enforcement officer, prosecutor, and attorney, im ready to take my passion and experiences to the halls of congress. Political newcomer Tim Alexander likes to say hes been in every seat in the courtroom, except for the judges bench. He is one of the democrats challenging incumbent congressman Jeff Van Drew in new jerseys second Congressional District. A former democrat himself who flipped to the gop who said he couldnt vote for the impeachment of then donald trump. You may remember van drew from this Oval Office Photo op. I believe this is just a better fit for me. This is who i am. Its who i always was, but there was more tolerance of moderate democrats, of blue dog democrats, of conservative democrats. And i think thats going away. You have my undying support. Thank you. Thank you very much. And always. And, by the way, same way. Okay. Joining me now is democratic candidate for new jerseys second Congressional District Tim Alexander. Mr. Alexander, thank you very much for coming to The Sunday Show. Thank you, jonathan. Thank you for having me. Okay. So, youre running against Congressman Van Drew who won reelection in 2020, 51. 9 to 46. 2 Against Kennedy who was democratic challenger, ms. Kennedy there. What makes you think why do you think youre the one who can oust van drew, Congressman Van Drew . Thats a great question. And the reason i know that i can beat van drew is because there is not a single issue that the people in this district face every single day that i havent experienced in my personal life. Whether it be how are you going to make ends meet, health care, or dealing with systemic racism, Police Brutality, security. I have experienced this in every single arena that i dont have to empathize or say, i havent experienced it. I know exactly whats going on. Thats going to resonate with everyone whether theyre republican or democrat in this district. One of the things he used, van drew used to beat up on ms. Kennedy was the issue of defunding the police. Have a listen to what he had to say at a 2020 debate. There is certainly the idea among Many Democrats that we should defund the police. I stand tall with my police. I believe in what they do, i believe in what they stand for. So, are you one of those democrats who believes in, quoteunquote, defund the police . What does that mean to you . No, i dont stand with defunding the police. I am a let me put it this way. Part of my platform is blowing up the way Police Officers are trained. I want a complete revision to the training program. Thats going to require funding. Hell never be able to put that tag On Me Defunding The Police when im seeking to increase funding because i want to scrap the entire way that Police Officers are trained, redraft, redevelop, put some money to it and push it back out. So lets say you do get elected to congress. What do you want to work on on capitol hill that you think can help the constituents of the Second District . As it stands with van drew, my first platform is bringing jobs to this district. He voted against the infrastructure program. I want to bring that money back to our district for infrastructure which will lead to more jobs, bring job training in, bring jobs to people who dont necessarily have advanced degrees, but still offer them good wages, benefits, and some money to supplement Social Security when they retire. So those are the type of programs i want to work on. And then also i want to work on Police Training reform. And we can talk about george floyd and all the other instances across the country, but its enough. We have to make change. Actually, to your point, mr. Alexandre, mr. Police training, weve been talking about what happened to that member of the armed forces who back in december, the video is coming out now. We played it at the top of the hour, of a traffic stop that was completely frightening. Guns pulled on him. Pepper sprayed. Your reaction to, to what happened to officer nazario. Let me qualify by saying the vast majority of Police Officers are good, noble and they do a great job. These two officers failed. They failed the lieutenant. They failed their communities. Why . It was a traffic stop. Why did they make it a highrisk stop . Because he didnt pullover right away . What if imagine for a moment that instead of the young africanamerican Second Lieutenant, it was an 80 somethingyearold woman, white woman, would they have reacted that same way . Of course not. Its a failing in the minds of those officers that it has to ends. When i looked at the george floyd debacle that led to his murder, he was charged or accused of passing a counterfeit bill. These officers came at him with guns drawn. In 1985 when i was shot at by the police, beat up, falsely arrested, officers came at me with guns drawn. I was backing away when they decided to shoot. But for the grace of god im still here. Im able to tell my story. That Second Lieutenant is still here, hes able to tell his story. Unfortunately, mr. Floyd is no longer with us, but his story is nonetheless being told. Mr. Alexander, when is your primary . In june of 2022. All right. We will be keeping tabs on you. Tim alexander, thank you very much for coming to The Sunday Show. Good luck. Thank you for having me. Up next, well check in on the other sunday shows. And coming up later on weekends with alex wit, Lindsey Reiser talks to Reverend Al Sharpton about whats next in the chauvin trial as we see Police Brutality continue every day. Well be right back. R subaru fo. dad its good to be back. mom it sure is. mom vo over the years, we trusted it to carry and protect the things that were most important to us. mom good boy. mom vo we always knew we had a lot of life ahead of us. mom remember this . mom vo thats why we chose a car that we knew would be there for us through it all. male vo welcome to the subaru forester. The longestlasting, most trusted forester ever. Trelegy for copd. Birds flyin high, you know how i feel. Breeze drifting on by you know how i feel. Its a new dawn. 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Just because you want to keep things as they have been, perhaps, you dont need to use the instrument of the law. You dont need to use the state to accomplish that purpose in every instance. There is the church. There is society. There is your community. This morning on nbcs meet the press, Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson detailed why he vetoed his party bill for transgendered youth in his state. But before you start to think theres suddenly a voice of morality in the Republican Party, he followed up with this. Each bill has to stand on its own. I signed two that i thought made sense. One was girls in sports, trying to protect womens sports. The other one was supporting medical conscience, that doctors can claim a conscience reason if they want to deny a particular procedure, but they have to do emergency care. Medical conscience. Joining me now is former democratic congresswoman from maryland donna edwards. Curt bardella, an nbc news think contributor and Washington Post opinion writer. Thank you very much for being here. Why on earth are republicans messing with the trans community, particularly with trans kids. Jennifer, if you can explain. The cruelty is the point. Why do they take children out of the arms of the mother at the border. This is what they do now. And it is an effort to impose a certain, i think, very arcane sense of morality on the public. It used to be that republicans said the state, the liberals are trying to use government to impose the morality on us. Leave us alone. Freedom of church, freedom of association. Its completely flipped. They have a certain sense of the world. Theyve lost the culture wars with the American People. Theyre not on the same side. And as a result, they want to enlist government to bully the rest of us around and they look to the people who are the most vulnerable. Whether its the trans community, undocumented immigrants, this is what they do. And i think we should call it out for what it is, which is hateful, which is cruel, and an effort to distract from the complete lack of policy on the things the government should be doing. On the economy. On infrastructure. On health care. All the things that government properly has a role in, they have no answers for and hence they turn to this whole grab bag of issues where theres dr. Seuss, or whether its making the lives of trans kids miserable. Its all part of the same game. Right. Curt, since jennifer brought up the border, im going to play what Texas Governor greg abbott had to say about the border. What the president could do is to immediately put back in place the remain in mexico protocols that were established in the prior administration. He could continue to build the wall along the border in south texas. He could send a stronger message, these people should not be coming here. Remember this, that is the reason why there are so many people coming here. If you go back to the democrat president ial debates, every single one of the Democratic Candidates said if they are elected, they will have open borders and they will be giving things for free to anybody coming across the border. Curt, thats a lie. That is a lie. Oh, brother. I tell you, jonathan, the level of delusion that has infected and metastasized throughout the entire Republican Party is reaching Epic Proportions here. This is just a continuation of what we have seen republicans do really for the last two decades, use the issue of immigration, use this idea that there are people coming here who are not white, who are looking to take things from white people. Thats what this is about. Thats what the rhetoric is about. Thats what this fight is all about. Jennifer is right. All of this is just misdirection to avoid talking about the things the American People care about. Theyre talking about the things that are popular with the American People that the Biden Administration is pursuing. The republicans know they are on the opposite side of the American People when it comes to covid relief, when it comes to infrastructure, when it comes to gun reform, when it comes to Climate Change so they have to come up with these manufactured culture war lunatic rhetorical, theatrical performances to avoid talking about the things that put them on the opposite side of the American People. They are on a oneway street to losing election after election after election by going down this path, a path that we already know is a losing strategy. A path that we already know cost them the white house, cost them the house, cost them senate. They are doubling down on failure because they dont have anything to talk about. And yet, donna edwards, i mean, 2022 is coming up. Nancy pelosi, speaker pelosis majority in the house is shrinking. The senate is at 50 50. Are republicans on the wrong side . Marjorie Taylor Greene, shes got nothing else to do because shes not on any committees. She raised 3. 2 million. Is curt i mean, is curt being wishful . Or is curt right . Wow, thats a tough question. Heres what i think is going on. I think jennifer is right. Cruelty is the point. And in the absence of a Governing Agenda or theory of change, republicans are doubling down on the things that can unite their, you know, sort of solid 35 behind this sort of trump theology of meanness. And i think that with 2022 coming up, what democrats have to do is just stay focused on their agenda. Continue to create, you know, and to have a message both of change, but also of competence, of getting the job done. And if republicans want to look like the obstructionists and they want to look like the party that is trying to find the narrowest ways to continue to divide people, i dont think its going to serve them right come the midterm elections. And so i say to democrats, get infrastructure done. You know, get a budget done. Make sure that you can have real action on Climate Change and reform issues, and that is the way to continue to win the hearts and minds of the American People. Well, jim jordan, congressman jordan doesnt seem to think so. Lets have a listen to what he had to say on one of the shows. What do we need a commission for . We already know where the democrats are at. They want to try to pack the court. They want to pack the court because theres more conservatives on the court than theyd like. More conservatives trump was able to put on the court. I guess theyre going to put together a commission, but we know where democrats want to go, all about raw political power. They want to pass legislation that will pass bills on house bill 1. Radically change police law. Pass a law that will change gun law. We hope Senator Mansion and sinema keep their word. All this stuff is actually going to become law. He talks real fast. Jennifer . We got 90 seconds so i want you each to respond to congressman jordan. Jennifer, you go first. All right. Listen, none of those things are true, number one. Number two, id like to hear what they have to say about the issues that are challenging the American People. Listen, were going to have 10 growth in the Second Quarter and they want to talk about trans kids and madeup lines about open borders which never existed . Thats nuts. Democrats should deliver. If it takes 50 votes plus the vicepresident , do it. Deliver. This is the rescue plan all over again. Deliver. Thats what people want. Curt . Id like to hear why jim jordan still thinks matt gaetz should be on the Ranking Committee that hes a member of. There you go, thats a question. Maybe hell come on The Sunday Show and i can ask him that question. Former congresswoman donna edwards, please explain him. Well, in boehners words, the former speaker, jim jordan is really never done anything. He just makes a lot of noise, continues to make a lot of noise, and doesnt want to accomplish a single thing, not for the people in his district, not for people in ohio, and certainly not for the country. So let him keep talking. Hell never get anything done. In fact, he said, i never saw a guy who spent more time tearing things apart. And with that were going to leave it there. Donna edwards with that fly green share in the background. Curt and jennifer, thank you for coming to The Sunday Show. Up next, what does a pony have to do with politics . The answer is coming up in the by line. By line. You cant plan for your periods. What the gush moments. But the right pad can. Only always ultra thins have rapiddry technology and, they absorb 40 faster. The gush happens fast. Thats why always absorbs faster. Keeping your oysters business growing has you swamped. You need to hire. I need indeed indeed you do. The moment you sponsor a job on indeed you get a shortlist of quality candidates from a resume data base claim your seventyfivedollar credit when you post your first job at indeed. Com promo do you have a Life Insurance policy you no longer need . Now you can sell your policy, even a term policy, for an immediate cash payment. We thought we had planned carefully for our retirement. But we quickly realized that we needed a way to supplement our income. If you have One Hundred Thousand dollars or more of Life Insurance you may qualify to sell your policy. Dont cancel or let your policy lapse without finding out what its worth. Visit conventrydirect. Com to find out if you policy qualifies. Or call the number on your screen. Coventry direct, redefining insurance. President Ronald Reagan had a favorite joke he loved to tell about a perennially optimistic boy. In an attempt to dampen that sunny outlook, a psychiatrist brought the kid to a room piled high with manure. Delighted, the little boy started frantically digging. Eww, right . So the shrink asking, what do you think youre doing . The boy, bridge with optimism, replied, with all this manure, there must be a pony in here somewhere. Which leads me to West Virginia senator joe manchin, a oneman roadblock to President Bidens policy agenda on capitol hill, because he insists that a pony named bipartisanship is stalking the halls of Congress Just waiting to be found. Manchin lowered the boom on abolishing or reforming the filibuster. In a oped last week he wrote, there is no circumstance in which i will vote to eliminate or weaken the filibuster. I simply do not believe budget reconciliation should replace regular order in the senate, manchin continued. Working legislation through regular order in the senate prevents drastic swings in federal policy making. Regular order . Donna edwards served in congress from 2008 to 2017. Here is what she told me about regular order on washingtonpostlives first look on friday. You know what, in the ten years i served, we never had regular order. Everybody called for it but we never had it. Manchin says he wants to, quote, usher a new era of bipartisanship where we find Common Ground on the major policy debates facing our nation. For real . Bipartisanship, with the party of donald trump . Common ground with many of the same people who voted against the certification of the Electoral College vote after insurrectionists invaded the capitol to try to overturn the president ial election . Manchin declares, quote, it is time we do our jobs. Olivier knox in the Washington Posts daily 202 pointed out last week, quote, manchin has long centered his political identity on his opposition to certain ideas. Its time for the gentleman from West Virginia to show us what hes for and with whom hes working among republicans to create this legislative nirvana he talks so much about. After Mass Shootings in georgia, colorado, and texas, perhaps manchin could start by reviving the Manchin Toomey bill that would have instituted background checks for gun buyers. The bill was proposed after the 2012 making them worse. The minimum wage must be raised. Voting rights absolutely must be protected. Our infrastructure must be improved and expanded. And in a perfect world, congress could get all of these things done. But we dont live in a perfect world. Thats why im willing to give manchin some time to find bipartisanship, but not forever. If, despite his efforts, republicans remain recalcitrant or put forward proposals they know will be rejected by the president , then manchin must leave them be, especially if he wants democrats to remain in the majority. Surely manchin wouldnt want to be blamed for his party losing it because he spent more time looking for a pony that doesnt exist than dealing with the reality of the pile of work right in front of him. Im Jonathan Capehart and this has been The Sunday Show. Hi, im pat and im 75 years old. We live in the mountains so i like to walk. Im really busy in my life; im always doing something. Im not a person thats going to sit too long. In the morning, i wake up and the first thing i do is go to my art studio. A couple came up and handed me a brochure on prevagen. Ive been taking prevagen for about four years. I feel a little bit brighter and my mind just feels sharper. I would recommend it to anyone. It absolutely works. Prevagen. Healthier brain. Better life. The lexus es, now available with allwheel drive. This rain is bananas. Lease the 2021 es 250 allwheel drive for 339 a month for 39 months. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. How great is it that we get to tell everybody how Liberty Mutual customizes your Car Insurance allwheel drive for 339 a month for 39 months. So you only pay for what you need . I mean it. Uhoh, sorry. Oh. What . Im an emu no, buddy only pay for what you need. Liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. We started with computers. We didnt stop at computers. We didnt stop at storage or cloud. We kept going. Working with our customers to enable the kind of technology that can guide an astronaut back to safety. And help make a hospital come to you, instead of you going to it. So when it comes to your business, you know well stop at nothing. So youre a small business, so when it comes to or a big one. , you were thriving, but then. Oh. Ah. Okay. Plan, pivot. How do you bounce back . You dont, you bounce forward, with serious and reliable internet. Powered by the largest gig Speed Network in america. But is it secure . Sure its secure. And even if the power goes down, your connection doesnt. So how do i do this . You dont do this. We do this, together. Bounce forward, with comcast business. Good day from msnbc World Headquarters in new york. Its noon in the east, 9 00 out west. Im Lindsey Reiser in for alex witt. We begin with Congress Heading back to infrastructure. President biden will meet with a group of democrats and republicans tomorrow to discuss his 2 trillion plan. But even as the package faces an uphill battle, the administration is still hoping to deliver a bipartisan win. Energy secretary Jennifer Granholm this morning leaving the door open for compromise. The president is willing to negotiate what this looks like. He knows that his current plan is going to be changed. Thats the nature of compromise. So whether it is in one big package or several packages, he wants to talk to republicans. And new overnight, donald trump lashing out during a gop retreat in florida. In a lengthy rant at his maralago resort, the former president repeating false claims that the election was stolen and lambasting several people he thinks wronged him including dr. Fauci, mike pence, and Mitch Mcconnell, even calling the Senate Minority leader a dumb son of a b and stone cold loser. Secretary of state Antony Blinken calling out chinas handling of the coronavirus pandemic, arguing the countrys, quote, failure to cooperate in the early stages led to the situation getting, quote, out of hand. To provide real transparency, one result of that failure is that the virus got out of hand faster and with i think much more egregious results than it might otherwise. Lets go ahead and get started with amanda golden on capitol hill. Amanda, what are we hea