The second thing thats important about the Respiratory Rate of 22 is when you have somebody that the primary problem in the body is Airway Narrowing, where you have somebody where there is that the airways are being compressed and theres narrowing in the neck and narrowing in the chest, the physiological response to Airway Narrowing is a normal Respiratory Rate and that is what we have. So its the expectant Respiratory Rate you see thats normal is the expected physiological response. If somebody who has Airway Narrowing. So, doctor, youve covered the mechanisms of how low oxygen occurs. As a commission, did you observe the results of low oxygen in the video showing the last minutes of George Floyds life . Yes. What did you observe . I mean, in terms of what we are seeing is the changes in his facial appearance, this becomes crucially important. Again, its seeing the effects of the low oxygen. Have you seen this effect in other patients as a clinician . Yes, indeed. Because i work in an icu where 40 of our patients die, so im extremely familiar with seeing people who die unfortunately. So when you see these changes, Yo See The Changes in the face. That is the key way of noticing something happening is by looking at the effects on the face. Doctor, i want to show you exhibit 15 already admitted into evidence. At 4 04. And i want to play you a clip and have you tell us what it shows. At the beginning you can see hes conscience. You see a slight flickering, and then it disappears. So one second hes alive and one second hes no longer. Could we just once more, that went pretty fast, so the jurors can see it. Just one second. 20 24 53 on the composite. And the speed is slowed down by a third just so we can see it. You can see his eyes hes conscience and then you you see that he isnt. Thats the moment the life goes out of his body. I will also show you a clip from another bodyworn camera, exhibit 43. 20 22 is where it starts. And i want to play this had for you also, dr. Tobin, if you can tell the Ladies And Gentlemen of the jury what this informs us. So now hes dropping his right side. You can see how hes moving his hip to rock the right side of his body to get air. You see him pushing down on the street to get air in. These movements of his hip you may miss but hes having to use all of his spine to just try to get air into that right side of the body. Keep in mind the left side is nonfunctional from the way they manipulated him and pushed him into the street. So hes constantly cranking up the right side of his body. You can see it right there, to try to get some air into the right side of his chest. Hes making repeated struggling movements. Hes moving again the hips because hes using his spine to try to get those muscles to move air into the right side of his chest. And hes again trying to use his right arm and hes unable because of the chain, the small chain linking it over to the left side. Hes trying to have pushed down on that right arm into the street to try to help him but hes unable to do it because of the chain on the handcuffs. At some point mr. Floyd stops speaking. What does that tell us about his Oxygen Supply . Where hes not speaking, it tells us that the Airway Narrowing in his upper airway is more than 85 and then its separate from the in terms of the oxygen level. That we are seeing by the face but theyre all happening together. So once once you see how much narrowing there is in the airway. But theyre all coming in together. And then did the restraints stop at the time of the brain injury and Pea Arrhythmia . Yes. Did the restraints stop at that time . No, the restraints continued after he has the cessation of respiratory efforts. When he last takes a breath, the knee remains on the neck for another 3 27 after he takes his last breath, the knee remains. After theres no pulse, the knee remains on the neck for another 2 44. After the officers have found themselves, theres no pulse, the knee remains on the neck another 2 44. Thank you, dr. Tobin, no further questions. Were going to take our lunch break at this time. Were going to take until 1 30. Thank you. Well, there you are, it is the lunch break. Welcome to Meet The Press daily. Im chuck todd. Youre watching the ninth day of testimony in Derek Chauvins murder trial and its been some difficult and difficulttowatch testimony and video and after several days of testimony about chauvins use of force and what happened to george floyd, prosecutors are now turning to why mr. Floyd died and what caused his actual death. Jurors have heard from dr. Martin tobin, one of the worlds most prominent pulmonologist, who testified mr. Floyd died from asphyxia. Mr. Floyd died from a low level of oxygen and this caused damage to his brain that we see and it also caused a p. E. A. Arrhythmia that caused his heart to stop. Dr. Tobin also told jurors george floyd could not breathe because of how police were holding him. The way theyre pushing down on these handcuffs, combined with the street, his left side, and its particularly the left side we see, its like the left side is in a vice. Its totally being pushed in, squeezed in from each side from the street at the bottom and then from the way that the handcuffs are manipulated. The doctor also refuted the defenses claim the rate was due to fentanyl in his body showing he had a normal rate of breathing before mr. Chauvin placed his knee on his neck. Im joined by civil rights attorney David Henderson and to break down todays medical testimony is pulmonologist and msnbc medical contributor dr. Vin gupta. Shaq, let me start with you. Today we know the defense has their own expert on this, this is going to be a highly litigated portion of this trial in a trial already highly litigated. Thats right, chuck. Im glad you mentioned that. Were over the next couple of days, probably remainder of this trial, were going to hear a Battle Of Experts also, people from the prosecution brought on to underscore their point, it was the actions of Derek Chauvin that led to the death of george floyd. When the defense makes their case, you will hear the defense, and their experts will say the fentanyl in his system and drugs and underlying medical condition. I think the important points today, chuck, four points i want to break down. You heard dr. Tobin express george floyd died from a low level of oxygen, asphyxia. A word you dont see in the Medical Examiners report and we will hear from the Medical Examiner tomorrow. Number two, because its the actions of chauvin, handcuffs, prone position, the knee in the neck and in the back, that led to the deficiency in oxygen george floyd was getting. Number three, he prebutted the point you will hear from the defense saying the fentanyl in his system did not cause the respiratory condition. And you will see them go through and touch the back and get them to understand what George Floyd Felt in his final moments of life. I think thats something when you look at the pool reports and what the jury is doing, following along with him, extremely interested in the testimony, i think thats probably a side effect of his testimony, because theyre following along, kind of taking that lesson along with the worldrenowned pulmonologist, theyre getting to conduct with him in a way they havent probably been able to with just the video, chuck. Im glad you brought that up, shaq. Im sorry, you cant help it, its very hes very engaging. Hes like a professor you cant stop listening to. Im curious, the decision to put him on before the Medical Examiner, do you have any sense why do him before the Medical Examiners testimony . This is something teased a little bit in the opening statements, chuck. Were reading a little bit of tea leaves there but in their presentation heard prosecutors say they would bring him on. We will hear from a cardiologist, toxicology expert. It seems like were going to hear from a lot of experts who can provide context from what we will hear in the Medical Examiners report. I went back and looked at old Court Filings and one of the things andrew baker told investigators in the days after George Floyds death, he said the autopsy revealed there was no physical evidence suggesting that floyd died of asphyxiation. You see in the actual report he doesnt mention that word. I think the idea is before we have dr. Baker, who actually was the only person to officially do the autopsy of george floyd, before we present that data, before the prosecution presents that data, theyre trying to add a frame, some context of the jury as they listen to what dr. Baker will ultimately say tomorrow, chuck. All right, shaq, we got dr. Vin gupta here. Youre pulling double duty for us as a pulmonologist. I want to play basically, and the control room knows this, the four specific bites if him that he sort of walks through some how he came to the conclusion of when he was able to stop to breathe. Control room, sot two through five. Lets play them back to back and then dr. Gupta, i want to get your analysis on the other side. Its not just the handcuffs, its how the handcuffs are being held, how theyre being pushed, where theyre being pushed, that totally interfere with central features of how we breathe. So mr. Floyd then is pancaked between the pavement underneath him and force on top of him . Precisely. You see his knuckle against the tire. To most people, this doesnt look terribly significant but to a physiologist, this is extraordinarily significant. Because this tells you that he has used up his resources and hes now literally trying to breathe with his fingers and knuckles. The toe of his boot is no longer touching the ground. This means that all of his body weight is being directed down at mr. Floyds neck. Were taking half his body weight plus the weight of his half the gear and all of that is coming directly down on mr. Floyds neck. We see here that he reaches a level of zero of oxygen at 20 25 41. So at that point theres not an ounce of oxygen left in his entire body at 20 25 41. So was the knee then lifted off of his neck at the point there was no oxygen in his body . No, the knee remained on the neck for another 3 02 after we reached the point where there was not one ounce of oxygen left in the body. Dr. Gupta, i think for a lot of us lay people to see that he can glean so much from essentially a white knuckle. Walk us through that testimony and why is it what does it tell you . Chuck, first of all, its really difficult to listen to and dr. Tobin is iconic in our field. So let me level here, for all of our viewers out there, typically you have Oxygen Deprivation, meaning your Oxygen Levels are below, say, 70 and rapidly declining, you will lose consciousness within about a minute. Brain damage usually occurs within four minutes. And thats right around the time youre can going to go into Cardiac Arrest. Theyve been throwing around this term p. E. A. Arrhythmia, pulseless electrode activity. If you slap on an ekg monitor, it seems like their heart is doing what it should do, Electrical Activity and ticking. In reality, theres no pulse. Thats what Oxygen Deprivation does. At about the fourminute period, once your heart muscle loses any oxygen, it stops. You go into Cardiac Arrest. But its not the type of Cardiac Arrest where you put electrical pads on and do a shock. Thats from a heart attack caused from a blood clot or vessel. This is different. This is exactly what happened, unfortunately, to mr. Floyd. I thought what was the most interesting part of the testimony from dr. Tobin was the fact that the Knuckle Contortion pushing down on the tire all reflect mr. Floyd was trying to move his body so he could elevate his rib cage, especially the right part of his rib cage, so he could get air into his lungs. Remember, chuck, his trachea, his main windpipe, was already being narrowed by the knee of Derek Chauvin. You had less ability to get air in. Here you are, to take an effective breath, you have to be able to elevate the rib cage. So that moving seen the knuckles trying to push up, creating the space to move the rib cage is vital to catch your breath. Add the handcuffs. Explain that i think dr. Tobin, its how you have the knee in the neck and your body is being contorted in a way, what else is that closing off . Well, so its closing off the ability to have in effect a breath. The fact the handcuffs are behind your back here and the way theyre behind your back and the fact he cant actually you need your arms and hands at that point, hes in the prone position, to be able to lift up and move your rib cage. The fact he cant actually use his appendages to be able to push back, to push back on the weight against mr. Chauvin, is a key piece here. Hes basically defenseless. And hes not able to move his rib cage. Which is why youre seeing the movement with the knuckles, trying to press up against anything he can, trying to contort his hips. Thats the only thing he had here was his hips to move and pivot so he could open up one side of his lungs. Thats the key piece here. I will also say on this notion of fentanyl was in his system and somehow had to do with what was happening, if anybody knows anything about fentanyl and its physical effects on the body know it depresses your rate. The fact hiss Respiratory Rate was high normal 22, that fundamentally argues against some sort of defense oh, well, he had fentanyl in his system. If fentanyl was playing a role, it would have depressed his Respiratory Rate to say 8 or 6, low single digits. The fact it was 22 is like he was trying to compensate. Normally we breathe 10, 12 breaths a minute but the fact he was almost double the normal Respiratory Rate suggested he was fighting and had the ability to fight because he wasnt being compromised by a drug or metabolite. David henderson, what should be read into the decision by the prosecution to bring dr. Tobin in before the Medical Examiner testifies . Are they concerned of whats known in that Medical Examiners report . Chuck, i think they know dr. Tobin is a much stronger witness than the Medical Examiner. In honestly, thats a fair point. I think hes going to be a stronger witness than just about anybody. You have to remember Medical Examiners are like other typical governor employees. Too much work to, do stretched thin, reports arent perfect and most of the time, they dont need to be. I think if they realized that, almost always when theyre dealing with a report from a Medical Examiner, you have to go meet with them in person and ask, hey, what does this say . What caused the death . I cant tell based on what you have written. Then they will sit down and explain it to you and you figure out how to present it in court. But you have a witness like dr. Tobin willing to come in and explain for free, why not put him on . Hes a better witness. Were there any holes in what dr. Tobin testified to that the prosecution ought to be nervous about when the defense begins their cross . I was listening to the doctor talk answering your questions wondering what dr. Tobin as effective as i thought he was, it turned out the answer is yes, he in fact was. I could normally come up with a way to poke holes in just about anything in court. Im hardpressed to figure out what it would be. If i was nelson, what i would be doing is ending my break calling my experts, praying they can come up with something for me to use, realizing full well at this point i may have to pivot to another type of defense. Dr. Tobin did a very good job of working us through four different factors. You have to try to create confusion. Thats the only thing you can do on crossexamination here. I want to play the Fentanyl Sound Bite we have from right before the lunch break. Let me play his explanation of why he believes fentanyl played no role in George Floyds death. Take a listen. That would mean a normal Respiratory Rate of between 12 and 22, thats the normal range of Respiratory Rate. And so if it was with fentanyl, you would expect a Respiratory Rate of 10. Instead, you counted here yourself, and you can see when you count it yourself the Respiratory Rate was 22. Basically it tells you there isnt fentanyl on board. So let me start with you, dr. Gupta. You had said, does this rule out fentanyl or is it possible he could have taken it but it had not taken effect yet . I mean, chuck, common things being common here, the likely cause in medicine we deal with the differential diagnosis, whats likely to have caused his death, George Floyds death. Overwhelmingly its Oxygen Deprivation causing a Cardiac Arrest. Fentanyl and dr. Tobin really points it out critically, if fentanyl was the cause here of his respiratory decline and low Oxygen Levels, his Respiratory Rate would have been depressed. Normal is 10 to 12 breaths a minute. He would have been frankly six or less. Bong him and i are intensive care physicians. You give Somebody Fentanyl and high enough doses, theyre going to be sleepy. Theyre going to take very intermittent breaths, theyre not going to take 22 breaths a minute, which is what mr. Floyd was breathing at what he was pinned down. So, david, considering the fentanyl testimony, would you say thats probably the biggest technical blow to the defense . I think so. When i say biggest technical blow, chuck, its difficult because part of what you have to remember is this jury wont have someone like dr. Gupta to explain the context of this medical testimony. Theyre going to have to figure out which experts to believe. And i have i cannot imagine anyone is going to come across as more credible in this courtroom than dr. Tobin has. Hes remarkable at Teaching A Jury what his testimony means, walking him through it in a csitype fashion, even inviting them to touch their neck. Jurors eat this stuff up like candy. So in the context of how he presented the evidence, yes, i think that that is effectively dead with regard to the fentanyl defense. I think for any intelligent person watching the trial, its basically over this point and comes down to argument. You just hope the prosecution doesnt mess it up by calling too many witnesses that counterbalance the effectiveness of what we just saw. Interesting. Let me go back to shaq. Number one, how many more experts do we expect after the Medical Examiner . And i also understand, this is dr. Gupta addressed this at the start, this was perhaps as difficult of a day to watch this trial as any because of how often you had to sort of relive George Floyds death. I know this has been hard on the family today, especially, shaq. Thats exactly right, chuck. Were getting an idea from the pool reports. Two reporters in the room, heres one report of the familys reaction. That struck to the heart of the defenses argument. But in the pool report, there was the moment we heard the doctors say this was the moment that the life went out of George Floyds body, and that was the moment you saw all of the jurors, looks like every juror wrote this down. Then we saw the video of George Floyds face and they play it twice. They play it once and said we might need to play it again to slow it down in case the jury missed it. The pool report said the family looked straight ahead when they showed the video of George Floyds face as he loses consciousness. Cant tell but they dont appear to be looking at the screen. The jurors were leaning in towards the monitor at that moment and thats when you heard, again, the doctor say thats the moment the life goes out of his body. Weve been hearing and my colleague, dave gutierrez, who is kind of along the path as the family walks to the court every morning, we have been hearing how difficult this is for them to lusen to and how painful it has been for them to hear this. You just feel for them on that moment when they play the specific moment that this doctor is testifying george floyd lost his life not only once but they played it twice and in slow motion, chuck. Its hard to watch when youre not related to him. I can only imagine when its like for that family. Shaquille brewster, David Henderson and dr. Vin gupta, i appreciate all three of you helping us unpack what we heard for the first half of today. We will, obviously, get back to the trial as soon as the lunch break is over. In a few moments were going to dive into the other big Breaking News that took place today. You caught a glimpse of it, i believe. President bidens Road Guard Announcement as we grapple with another major shooting in america, its coming across almost a daily basis. Authorities say five people, including two children, died as a result of a shooting yesterday in South Carolina. The local Sheriffs Office say they found the person they believe is responsible. Authorities are planning to hold a Press Briefing on the incident at 2 00 p. M. Eastern time. Were aware there are other news reports out there with names of this person. We have not confirmed it at nbc news. Were still working on that. The president referenced, by the way, the South Carolina shooting this afternoon. While he called on congress to act for now, President Biden is going it alone on guns. I will talk to the leader of Gun Violence Prevention Group formed by congresswoman Gabby Giffords about whether todays Executive Actions are enough to make a difference. Thats next. But, first, heres something weve wanted to do for a while. A quick look at life after lockdown. Birds flyin high, you know how i feel. Breeze drifting on by you know how i feel. Its a new dawn. If youve been taking copd sitting down, its time to make a stand. Start a new day with trelegy. No oncedaily Copd Medicine has the power to treat copd in as many ways as trelegy. With three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy helps people breathe easier and improves lung function. It also helps prevent future flareups. Trelegy wont replace a Rescue Inhaler for sudden breathing problems. 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Im jayson tatum check out my subway sub with Delicious Turkey and crispy bacon. It will help you hit shots from anywhere, unlike those other subs. My sub has steak. Wait, what did he say . Steak choose better be better and now save when you order in the app. Subway eat fresh. Welcome back. In the wake of multiple highprofile Mass Shootings just in the last few weeks and with gun reform totally stalled in congress, President Biden today announced his administrations first actions on gun violence. He unveiled six Executive Actions on guns, which he called initial steps. He called on the senate to act on measures like banning Assault Weapons and closing background check loopholes. Whether Congress Acts or not, im going to use all of the resource at my disposal as president to keep the American People safe from gun violence but theres much more that congress can do to help that effort. And they can do it right now. They offer plenty of thoughts and prayers as a member of congress but passed not a single new law to reduce gun violence. Enough prayers. Time for some action. President bidens Executive Actions include limitations on what are called ghosn gun ghost guns. Homemade firearms from kits bought online. The biggest problem with them is they have no traceable serial number. Theyre also asking the Department Of Justice to publish Model Legislation for states to follow and asking the doj to issue reports on Firearms Trafficking, they have not done since the year 2000. The president also nominated David Chipman, former gun reform advocate, to lead atf, bureau of alcohol, tobacco, firearms and explosives. Joining me from outside the white house, my colleague nbcs mike memoli. Theres two ways to look at this, is it a oneday event and its back to infrastructure . I say this and im not dismissing what was done, but there are efforts white houses do that are designed to get congress to act and efforts white houses do to sort of say, this is the best we can do because Congress Wont act. Where does this fall . Chuck, i think the way to look at this is this is President Biden laying down a marker, yes, that not necessarily is going to continue to be a priority in the short term but does factor into the longterm strategy here at the white house. This is an issue thats both personal and, also, yes, political for President Biden. He, of course, as a senator passed the Assault Weapons ban. He just told me a few weeks ago when i asked him about chris murphy on your show saying he thought there might be 60 votes for meaningful gun reform, he said yes, hes prepared to make calls and reminded me im the only one who has gotten meaningful Gun Legislation passed. He does think this is something he ran on and can deliver on as president. In terms of the timing, obviously, the white houses first, second and third priority is the jobs plan, infrastructure and all of the other components through some time this year. But biden and the team around him knows very well the increasing power they believe for democrats of this issue politically. They want to lay the marker down today, draw attention to it. The president got further ahead than the white house officials told us in the wake of boulder not to expect much in the immediate future from this president. But they believe when the bell rings on the midterm elections can be powerful, yes, for some members of congress but particularly senators in the purple districts, purple states, that have been shown meaningful to moving voters in the fall. I guess thats the question, do you need more political do you need more political complains to be influenced by the gun issue in order to get politicians to act . Perhaps thats where were stuck. Mike memoli at the white house, thank you very much for more i want to join in the director of the Giffords Law Center and i also want to say the atf nominee is a gifford adviser. Walk us through the Executive Actions today. On one hand if youre a gun reform advocate, youre happy with the Executive Actions, but youre consistently frustrated with congress. This administration is on your side. Are they fighting hard enough . The steps the president took today are an incredible move in the right direction. He spoke about six different measures the white house is going to be taking. That includes, as you mentioned, Issuing Rules on ghost guns, stabilizing braces, red flag law which the administration will publish to model but motivate states financially to pass laws on this. Release reports on Firearms Trafficking will go a long way to empower Law Enforcement to understand the kinds of trends we are seeing in the movement of illegal guns in this country. Its astounding. There has not been a report in more than 20 years. Obviously, the nomination of atf director is a huge step. We havent had a permanent director in far too long. One of the things you and have the mentioned thats also incredibly significant is a Huge Investment of money into Community Violence intervention strategies, 5 billion over eight years. That is a Huge Investment and can make a tremendous difference in the most impacted communities in this country. But at the end of the day, its about congress. Do you think in order to get political will in congress, there has to be more political campaigns run on this issue . I mean, do you think that republicans are just not there yet and they have to see more problems at the ballot box on this issue . I think that would certainly be help. When we do polling, we see 70 , 80 , 90 of americans support all of these measures. We already know the American People stand behind it and we are already seeing so many of these federal legislators running for office on a gun safety platform. We saw a huge shift in 2018 and again in 2020, even with the president running as somebody who believes in gun safety and gun reform. So this is already winning elections. Now, we have a very closely tied senate. We know really getting so many things done is going to be difficult but we believe theres an urgency here. Last year gun violence was on one of the highest levels in this country in 40 years. Even with the lockdown and the pandemic last year, we are seeing hugely increased rates of gun violence and now a resurgence of Mass Shootings, it really is urgent. I believe the American People are fed up and going to be demanding action on this. Robyn, do you think theres put on your legal hat here for me. Do you think there is room in the National Firearms act . The law that was passed in the 30s that banned machine guns, do you think that law can be reinterpreted to deal with Assault Weapons without Congress Intervening . I think that ideally it would be done through congressional action. The way its written refers to very specific types of firearms. So fully automatic weapons, sawedoff shotguns, short barrel guns, silencers. So its actually relatively specific as to the types of weapons that fall under the jurisdiction of the nsa and how the process works. The process works absolutely brilliantly. If you look at the kinds of guns and violence we see, you almost never see the type of weapons being regulated used in crimes and proliferated, even though they can be legally owned. So i think it would be an outstanding way to regulate semiautomatic Assault Weapons that present such a huge threat in Mass Shootings. We can look at the model that is presented and how effectively its worked. I do think though, if were going to pull additional weapons it would be done by congress and i dont see any reason why it couldnt be. Im curious, take this Gun Stabilizer that we know that has been the president is taking action on. If it gives a weapon the effect of what was supposed to be banned by that National Firearms act, you know, i guess it didnt exist when they wrote the law. Is it just because its not written into it, theres no way this could sort of get grandfathered in . You know essentially things like bunt stocks, we saw them used in las vegas and it raised the same issue we are seeing now with the arm brace. Of we see how these new accessories are literally being designed to circumvent the regulation. What that requires is for atf or congress to act to make sure that these accessories are included in a definition that re12rik9 them either under the nfs or displanned them if theyre too dangerous for sixens to acquire. I think these type of accessories and ill sure these wont be the last ones, its an innovative industry and were seeing new types of guns and accessories being released all the time. It requires robust analysis by the congress and atf so civilians cant easily get ahold of them and we see incredibly violent and tragic shooting in this country easily perpetrated. We need to be assertive about it, look at whats out there in the marketplace and be sure to regulate in a way that protects Public Safety and protects our communities. Atf, its been a long running, nra tried to neuter or tie the hands of atf a couple decades now. They rigged the rules for a while to do this. Their power is much less. Looks like you may get mr. Chipman may actually get confirmed. What do you skekt him to do to at tf . What do you think he can bring to atf that would bring a change . I think its been hard for atf over, gosh, the last 15 years with difficulty getting strong leadership at the helm to get the proper resourcing that it needs. I think the most fundamental thing atf needs in order to do its job effectively, help make sure were as safe as can be as a country, looking at Traffic Regulations of firearms, they need funding to properly oversee it, like the firearms deals, to make sure they can probably do the investigations they need to to look into trafficking and all of the other types of illegal gun sales going on online. I believe with strong leadership and acumen, the agency can do a far better job that its supposed to be doing to ensure were looking at the tragic ongoing pandemic in this country in a way that allows us to make progress. And i think David Chipman is the perfect person for that job. He has an incredible wealth of experience within atf. Okay. Well, atf, completely underutilized agency on a number of things, including on our issues with domestic extremism too. Theres a lot of good work atf acts do and can be done. Robyn thomas, thank you for coming on and sharing your perspective. Thanks for having me. While the president is going alone on guns, the white house seems like they do want to negotiate on infrastructure. At this point is compromise just going to be about getting bidens own party on board . Thats next. Hi mr. Charles, we made you dinner. Ahh, thank you ready to eat . Yes i am we started with computers. We didnt stop at computers. We didnt stop at storage or cloud. We kept going. Working with our customers to enable the kind of technology that can guide an astronaut back to safety. And help make a hospital come to you, instead of you going to it. So when it comes to your business, you know well stop at nothing. 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The ultimate fate of President Bidens ambitious agenda from structure, which he was addressing in that clip, to gun reforms, you heard him speak about today, may be an unpopular word in politics right now, compromise. At a press conference yesterday, Congresswoman Jeanetta Amundio showcased what she said was a goodfaith attempt to compromise. A group of moderate republicans bristled at the criticism they were not willing to compromise on last months covid relief package, which ultimately passed with just democratic votes. Then theres senator John Manchin Redoubling down on his stand he does not support shortkutz in the senate designed for compromise. And reaffirming the filibuster as the senator say senate rules will allow them to bypass the filibuster more regularly anyway. What does this mean for the president s agenda as he faces a Democratic Base that wants to go big . Joining me now is garrett haake. Garrett, i think thats the question here. I want to play gina rimando and Jennifer Granholm who are saying basically lets talk, lets make a deal. Take a listen. So theres room for compromise. But that is clear. The president has said a few things, we have to get this investment done. Hes charged us to work across the aisle in a bipartisan way. Well, i think he said from the very beginning that he wants to see compromise. He wants to have this be bipartisan. And the question i keep coming back to, garrett, im going to take the Biden Administration at their word that they want to negotiate with republicans. Does Congressional Democratic leadership . Congressional democratic leadership understands they may not have any choice, thats the reality here. Its not so much a question of go big or go alone. You might not be able to go alone. You look at the majority you have here, you have a 50 50 majority which isnt really a functional majority when you have john manchin essentially saying hes not going to go along on guns or hr1 or pick your issue that they might be able to do on a 50 50 world absent the filibuster. On the house side the democratic margin is so narrow, Speaker Pelosi can only afford to lose two or three votes on any given issue. Getting republican support isnt just something thats allowed him to claim bipartisan, it may be necessary to pass any of these priorities beyond the Emergency Covid bill that already got through. Well, let me ask you this, lets go to john manchin here a minute. Manchin does what he does yesterday in that oped. I think its interesting he reaffirmed that position just two reaffirmed that position just two days after Chuck Schumer found out, we can use reconciliation more often. What is schumer taking away from the oped . Reporter i dont think the schumer world is too concerned about it right now. I think what you saw in regards to the filibuster was the conclusion of a Process Manchin has been going through, really, since his interview on Meet The Press with you, chuck, where he seemed to open the door to going to a talking filibuster or some other bigger filibuster reform. Hes been walking that back very slowly over the last few weeks. He sort of finished the process with that oped last night. His points of reconciliation in the oped are important. I dont think theyre particularly concerned that manchin will walk away from the now, but when i saw that oped, i was thinking of john mccain on his effort to kill obamacare when he said, regular order, regular order, we have to go back to regular order. Joe manchin is not there yet, but if democrats in the senate keep pushing reconciliation as a way to do things, instead of compromise which is the way manchin prefers doing it, could we see a john mccain somewhere down the line . I think its possible. I think manchin has felt that hes become the Democratic Party and everything john mccain for folks. Appreciate it, sir. Up ahead, we have a sneak peek of something were pretty fired up about around here, so stick around for that. D here, so stick around for that. Philadelphia. Schmear perfection. Its so busted, you cant use this part of the screen. Definitely cracked every phone ive owned. vo you broke your phone. So verizon broke the rules. For the first time ever, new and current customers can trade in their old and damaged phones for up to 1,000 off our best 5g phones. My phone is old, very old. vo old, cracked, water damaged doesnt matter. 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Safety is why were Prioritizing Vaccinations for educators. Because working with our local communities. We will all get through this together, safely. Welcome back. If its thursday, on thursday we are premiering season 2 of our streaming show Meet The Press reports. It debuts tonight. Every thursday we take a deep dive into one issue. Our first focus is the rise of domestic extremism in this country. My partner sat down with a former member of the Extremist Group europa. Take a listen. I think whats so shocking about this movement in todays day and age is here you are, you have your wits about you. How do you end up in this space . I think part of the reason i decided to speak up is because there are so many highranking people in this movement. They were emts, they were doctors, they were your neighbors, they were your family members, still believing it all of this stuff, and i think that is what makes all of this so dangerous and so its just terrifying. Look, its a powerful story that morgan put together. Its something you really cant miss. Please dont miss it tonight. Our season 2 kicks off tonight. Its streaming on nbc news now, but its available ondemand, On Peacock Beginning tomorrow. And you can watch all of our season 1 episodes which were very much part of the campaign 2020 theme. All of those are ondemand right now. Well be taking deep dives into secrets of democracy, security, our water supply, climate and much more. So dont miss it. That does it for us. Thanks for being with us this hour. Msnbcs coverage of the trial will continue after the lunch break is over, and msnbc continues after this break with my friend katy tur. Friend katyr na na na na. Hey hey hey. Goodbye. Na na na na na na na na. The worlds first sixfunction multipro tailgate. Available on the gmc sierra. We started with computers. We didnt stop at computers. We didnt stop at storage or cloud. We kept going. Working with our customers to enable the kind of technology that can guide an astronaut back to safety. And help make a hospital come to you, instead of you going to it. So when it comes to your business, you know well stop at nothing. Bike shop please hold. Bike sales are booming. You need to hire. I need indeed. Indeed you do. The moment you sponsor a job on indeed you get a shortlist of quality candidates from our resume database. Claim your 75 credit when you post your first job at indeed. Com bike. Good afternoon, im katy tur. A critical shift in day nine of the Derek Chauvin murder trial in minneapolis. After days of focus on the use of force, the prosecution is now zeroing in on what caused George Floyds death. Riveting testimony from dr. Martin tobin, an expert pull pulmonologist, who wrote