knee on floyd's neck more than nine minutes even after didn't have a pulse, violated the police department's policy. it was the police chief today making the case that almost everything chauvin did that day was wrong. >> do you believe that the defendant followed departmental policy 5-304 regarding deescalation? >> i absolutely do not. >> this is a trained minneapolis police department offensive tactic technique? >> it was not. >> is it your belief this form of restraint in fact violates department policy? >> i absolutely agree, it violates our policy. >> is what you see in exhibit 17 in your opinion within minneapolis police departmental policy, 5-300, authorizing the use of reasonable force? >> it is not. >> in a striking moment the police chief spoke directly to the jury and made it clear that chauvin did not represent his police force. >> once there was no longer any resistance and clearly when mr. floyd was no longer responsive and even motionless, to continue to apply that level of force to a person proned out, handcuffed behind their back, that in no way, shape or form is anything that is by policy, is not part of our training and certainly not part of our ethics or our values. >> it was he who was minneapolis's first black police chief, who fired chauvin and three other officers involved in floyd's death just a day after the incident in may. after that released a statement calling it a murder. wrote mr. floyd's tragic death was not due to lack of training. training was there, chauvin knew what he was doing, one intentionally caused it, others failed to stop it. it was murder, not a lack of training. now former prosecutor and former police chief. chief godby, one of the many things i found extraordinary about this case is the number of police officers testifying for the prosecution. the number of fellow police officers of derek chauvin coming out strongly against him. before i let you respond to that, just let you listen to one more sound bite of chief air daunddo last june about chauvin. >> if you could be in the same room with derek chauvin, what would you say to him. >> i would not be in the same room with him and refuse to mention his name. >> and talked about need for police to be part of the community and engage in the community. talked about that today. what do you make of this man testifying against chauvin and other police who have done so? >> i don't think we can underestimate the civil moment we're witnessing. the chief has set a new standard and bar for expectation of police leadership, and i think his transparency, candor, and his ability to call balls balls and strikes strikes, you can't make sense out of nonsense, and his ability to do that, that frees those beneath him of lower rank to be courageous and bold to speak against a culture so entrenched in thin blue line. >> yeah, there is no thin blue line in this case. you wrote the book on choke holds, i don't know if you find it as extraordinary as we do to her police talk about other police this way. >> it is. most prosecutions of officers, police chiefs typically don't get involved in trials at all. or when they do, seem to support their cop. this was really a big deal, in part because it was the boss, but in part because of the extraordinary testimony. he couldn't actually say this time that he thinks that chauvin is a murderer because that's a decision that the jury has to decide. but a clear inference from his testimony today was the chief of police thinks one of the officers he employed is guilty of the ultimate crime. >> yeah, he made it clear, wasn't our training, policy. he was very clear. play part of the defense attempting to undercut him. tries to refute the chief's testimony by trying to make what chauvin did sound like a weird form of deescalation. here's that. >> if -- was your leading theory then for the cause of mr. floyd's cardiac arrest oxygen deficiency? >> that was one of the more likely possibilities. i felt that at the time based on the information i had, it was more likely than the other possibilities. >> and doctor, is there another name for death by oxygen deficiency? >> asphyxia is commonly understood term. >> that actually was dr. bradford langenfield, we're going to come back to that. this is the chief reacting to the defense trying to make this look like deescalation, what chauvin did. take a look. >> sometimes deescalation includes the use of force. right? use of force can be a deescalation tactic. >> i was thinking of your example of displaying your weapon. i don't have a lot of knowledge in terms of physical force being used to deescalate a situation, but threatening use of force or threatening verbally, i'm more familiar with that. >> chief godbee, how long have you been a cop? number of years of experience? >> started -- over 35 years in law enforcement, and i must say, if i could, asphyxia, i'm sure butler can attest, absent one individual on your back and three on your throat, we've been sensitive to that, laying on stomach, he was still subject to die in that circumstance. what chauvin did exacerbated it. i'm proud of the chief for not buying into the nonsensical arguments of the defense. >> you anticipated my question and answered it. eric garner case played out differently, defense were able to portray him still thrashing and struggling and make it somehow magically make him into a threat. in this case there's been testimony this man was probably already dead. cannot be a threat if he's dead. wonder if you think the defense is getting anywhere with the arguments, including trying to undercut the experience of the chief and officer zimmerman, lieutenant zimmerman. >> the defense is not doing a good job poking holes in the prosecution's strong case. chief testified that chauvin should never have put his knee on floyd's neck because that's deadly force, which chauvin was never entitled to use because floyd never threaten ed anybody's life. in any event laying stomach down in handcuffs saying 22 times he can't breathe, chief testified that force should have stopped immediately. this testimony i think will profoundly impact the jury. >> let's take a step back, chief, if you have problem officers on your force in theory, what difference would it make if they knew from case like this it's possible to go to prison for doing this? does that have the potential in your professional view of changing behavior? because up to now, i feel like because officers know you almost never go to jail, just do the magic words, thought i saw a gun, feared for my life, and get away with it. do you think if there was a conviction, not anticipating it, but if there was, would that help police chiefs get officers to behave in different way? >> in a perfect world i would like to think so, but the culture is deeply entrenched. slave patrols was first organized policing force in the united states of america. i think this is a victory if there is a conviction and should celebrate that, but that's far from a panacea for -- just the broken criminal justice system that we have. it would be a tremendous start, would be a disincentive to some, however i don't want us to get a sugar high and think his conviction alone is going to change the landscape of policing in the united states. >> very wise words. paul, the question is, what should we anticipate next. we've seen where defense is trying to go, wants to blame the crowd, say they were inciting, blame everybody but chauvin. prosecution's case might wrap this week, what is are we in for in defense case? >> next phase is battle of experts for the cause of floyd's death. prosecution experts will testify that drugs in floyd's system were not enough to kill him in part because he developed a high tolerance level. and also testify that what the jurors see on the video, mr. floyd pleading for his life, calling for his mom and saying goodbye to his children are not consistent with people about to die of a drug overdose. defense has one star witness, medical examiner whose reports say mr. floyd did not die of asphyxia but heart failure, but even the official autopsy says that chauvin's actions was cause of heart failure. that's why cause of death includes homicide. it's medical term, not legal, but still implicates chauvin. prosecution doesn't have to prove that mr. floyd died only because of chauvin's actions but they were a substantial contributing thing. >> this is a fascinating trial, never seen this many police testifying against the police. thank you both. appreciate your expertise. >> up next, senate parliamentarian gave democrats a major boost today, signing off on plan to use reconciliation to pass president biden's ambitious infrastructure agenda with a simple majority. transportation secretary joins me next. and congressman matt gaetz, says there no way he's resigning. we could find reasons to crown ron desantis as the worst on daily basis, rewarding donors with vaccines, he's bad, but not the worst. the worst? 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>> there are 100 senators with 100 views about exactly how they think it should be done, but broadly i'm seeing a lot of energy and excitement for the bill. i'll be catching up with senator manchin soon, speaking with republicans and democrats in the house and senate, hearing a lot of energy and excitement for the idea of infrastructure investment. little bit more challenge when it comes to deciding exactly how to pay for it. but the president has put forward a vision with support from the american people. republicans and democrats, lot of mayors from both parties. of course we're going to dig into the details, talk with senators and house members and see if they have ideas or refinements, but be clear, this is a vision that does what it takes to create millions of jobs, put america back in first place instead of 13th where we are right now. and one other thing, that georgetown study you mentioned has something else interesting in it. majority of the jobs estimated to be created don't require a college degree. at time we're worried about blue-collar jobs in places like where i come from in midwest, fact we're going to create many jobs that don't require a college degree i think is incredibly i important. >> you're a former mayor, you know that potholes are politics. people want the roads fixed, trains to run on time. politics 101, even steve bannon when he's not doing white supremacy told donald trump to do infrastructure. that's tax money people see working. i can't think of anyone who doesn't want roads or bridges in their district or state. >> biggest things i've hearing are different views of how to pay but president is clear, no one making less than $400,000 should pay anything more in taxes for this, especially with corporations out there, some of which paid zero on billions in profits. fair corporate tax rate, still lower than it's been most of our lifetime but enough to get it done. other objection is semantic or philosophical. is this infrastructure? is that? republicans oddly suggesting that water pipes are not infrastructure. i don't understand that view. i don't care which label you apply to the plan, every part is popular and good as far as i can tell in terms of creating jobs, it's a jobs plan. >> speaking of water and infrastructure, play you governor of mississippi, tate reeves, whose state capitol, jackson, mississippi, having a severe problem with water, need infrastructure, but here he was objecting to the plan. >> there's no doubt that mississippi could use our fair share of $100 billion. problem with this particular plan though, although the biden administration is calling it infrastructure plan, looks more like $2 trillion tax hike plan to me. >> how do you pay for it then? >> in a number of different ways, one way is by seeing significant improved economic growth. >> tax cuts, that's what they're always saying. how you get it actually through. what are you willing to give up in terms of the negotiation here? make that reduction in the corporate income tax what joe manchin wants? looks like it's going to have to be another reconciliation bill. >> we have to get it done but want to get it done in way that's bipartisan and takes a lot of ideas on board. what the president laid out was clear vision but you'll always find he's open to ideas. now hearing those from members in our party and across the aisle. that's fine, can take on ideas, discuss them. already had conversations in oval office, i'm sure that will continue. bottom line we've got to get something done and president is hoping to see major progress from congress before memorial day. like to celebrate in the summer this is done and can get to work. >> secretary pete, i'm obsessed with infrastructure. >> you and me both. >> right up my alley, thank you for talking about this, i'll let you go but come back. secretary pete buttigieg, thank you. if you thought you were exempt from a florida man's money grubbing scheme just because you're a trump supporter, think again. tonight the absolute worst. stay with us. stay with us as a musician living with diabetes, fingersticks can be a real challenge. that's why i use the freestyle libre 14 day system. with a painless, onesecond scan i can check my glucose without fingersticks. now i'm managing my diabetes better and i've lowered my a1c from 8.2 to 6.7. you can do it without fingersticks, too. ask your doctor for a prescription for the freestyle libre 14 day system. and visit freestyle libre.us to try it for free. i'm susan and i'm 52 and i live in san francisco, 14 california. i have been a sales and sales management professional my whole career. typical day during a work week is i'm working but first always going for a run or going to the gym. i love reading. i love cooking healthy. it's super important to me. i was noticing that i was just having some memory loss. it was really bothering me. so i tried prevagen and it started to work for me. i wish i had taken prevagen five or ten years ago. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. zero-commission trades for online u.s. stocks and etfs. and a commitment to get you the best price on every trade, which saved investors over $1.5 billion last year. that's decision tech. only from fidelity. advil dual action fights pain 2 ways. it's the first and only fda approved combination of advil plus acetaminophen. advil targets pain. acetaminophen blocks it. advil dual action. fast pain relief that lasts 8 hours. vo: calling all builders, all welders, and roofers. engineers and electricians. calling all brick masons and boiler makers. steel workers and steam fitters your country is calling you to rebuild america. to create a cleaner, safer, more prosperous future for all. tackling climate change, this is the job of our lifetime. it's time to build back better. let's get to work. there's yet another spotlight set on governor ron desantis over his vaccine distribution strategy in florida. under desantis the wealthiest communities got priority access before lower income residents. buts there new scrutiny, allowing public supermarkets to administer the vaccine after publix donated to his political action committee. and cbs's "60 minutes" is raising concerns about a pay to play scheme and point out for the poorer people, took around two hours on the bus to get vaccine. he's not the absolute worst, that distinction goes to another florida resident, swanky side of palm beach county, former president. whose treatment of his own supporters shows what he really thinks of them. trump has boasted of using other people's money to finance his ilconceived ventures. >> opm, i do it in business. other people's money, there's nothing like doing things with other people's money. >> scamming people out of their money has been his life's work. just ask the stockholders of his atlantic city casinos or students of trump university or anybody who donated to his defunct charitable foundation. no surprise duped donors into making recurring contributions, sometimes without their knowledge. campaign began last september to set up recurring donations by default. one donor fighting cancer in hospice care thought he was making one-time contribution and found $3,000 in withdrawals. trump supporters had to claim fraud to get their money back, not voter fraud but actual fraud. campaign and committees had to issue half a million refunds, returning ten times more than the biden campaign in the same period, but trump still benefitted from the scam. like a ponzi scheme, cash from subsequent donors egged on by lie about the election were able to cover the refund he owed. interest-free loan from unwitting supporters. almost as if we should have been warned. >> my whole life i've been greedy, greedy, greedy, grabbed all the money i could get. i'm so greedy. >> former, disgraced, twice impeached ex-president donald trump for treating your supporters as marks and using dangerous big lie as part of the scam? 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>> i don't have any specific knowledge on the investigation. or any of the facts that are involved with the investigation. >> privately republican lawmakers tell the hill that gaetz's days in congress are numbered and one congressman is donating contributions he received from gaetz to victims of abuse. democratic pollster and strategist and former executive director and counsel of the black caucus. you know florida and this character. "washington post" says gaetz boasted of his access to women provided by friend in the sex trafficking case. people involved in the gubernatorial campaign of ron desantis says gaetz, adviser who helped lead suggested that events be set to end in college town. desantis, gaetz and perhaps this friend charged with sex trafficking. what in the hell is going on in florida? >> do you remember the '80s movie "gremlins," florida is what happens when you feed the trump voters after midnight. untenable situation. matt gaetz, he knows he's just one of many florida men, and we have the scandal du jour happen here, and competing with likes of ron desantis, rick scott, marco rubio and trump family who lives here, he's trying to hide between the shadows to live and fight another day in classic roger stone style as you saw. but fundamentally will come down to his alienation of so many other republican members of congress. knives are privately out for matt gaetz and i think he will be out of congress by end of the calendar month. >> speaking of alienating fellow republicans, liz cheney, which republican did not get thrown under by her party for going against trump? liz cheney, from a powerful family and matt gaetz thinking he's going to come for her in wyoming. >> liz cheney calls herself a leader in washington but to me being a leader does not mean winning election amongst a bunch of politics, doesn't mean you've lived a flawless personal life, i can tell you, i sure haven't. >> clearly. is liz cheney saying let matt gaetz know it was me? >> or maybe she's just saying look at these chickens coming home to roost, right? this is that kind of a thing. what's fascinating about this, roger stone's tactics and strategies have often proved to work, surpriseingly, only thing to contribute it to is white privilege but in this instance it's continuing to backfire. what i noticed about the press conference from the former gaetz staffer, he happened to mention he offers free services around military advisory work while he's in the private sector. i don't know if they've never heard of congressional ethics but may be concerned citizens out there want to call to report an inappropriate gift, right? there are these kind of things happening. so sometimes when you find yourself trying to clean up a mess, you create more mess. fact he was in florida state legislature opposing revenge porn while showing off videos of naked women on his phone, also problematic, he's talking about he's not a monk. sir, we know, just trying to figure out if you have any moral fiber in your being. >> just try to get him to stop using word "sex," don't ever want to hear him saying that. stop saying that. selfie with stone, gaetz and greenberg in 2017. it is interesting how florida has become the kind of choke point for this certain kind of politician, including donald trump, now crowned king of palm beach, of florida. and all the scandals seem to be interconnected. kind of guy ron desantis is, only the rich can get vaccines first, rest of you plebs can get it later, that kind of politics, i don't know how florida keeps breeding that, but desantis is seen as next big thing for the republican party, there's something they like about that kind of politics, i don't get it. >> part of the problem and it's frightening to contemplate, florida is a laboratory for what the republican party or gqp would look like if donald trump was able to win a second term or if the republicans capture the nation again in 2024. they're trying to create a quasi autocrassy with the conditions that exist in the state. total control of the legislature and courts. catastrophe happening in manatee county because of total deregulation, the currency of the realm for the republican party last generation or so, there's calamity taking place. also a sense of impunity for a lot of folks here. my fear and concern is as florida begins to continue to become this state fortified as a republican state and model for the future, you're going to see them start to export this and copy some of the worst practices like we're seeing them do in copying the georgia voter law, that's already in place here, going to try to do more like that. scary for the future. while we joke about florida man and #becauseflorida, it is a dangerous place because it's front line for republican ato beracy of the future right now. >> and seeing them devolve into one big grist. maybe always that way and just noticing it. big lie that produced five dead police officers, dozens of police officers injured, all the calamity and disgrace of the united states around the world was also part of the grist to get people to give more money to pay back the previous people donald trump gristed. do you think this management of people's panic, get money out of them, does it run out of them? i'm tired of brown scare and black scare and giving you money because of it. >> i hope what happens is people stop running towards that because it makes them feel better and run stay-at-home orders -- towards the truth, even if it hurts. heritage foundation has a story about joe biden, scary tax plan, biggest ever. and you forgot to talk about the biggest tax cuts ever, at some point this has to balance out. folks have to stop voting their dreams and start voting their interests. i know you want to be out here and party with matt gaetz but there are consequences for that, you may have more in alignment with poor black or brown person or somebody that is in the south and you're in the midwest or in joe manchin's state. that means you have to vote in alignment with what is in your best interest, not what they're telling you. stuff they're telling you is not even true. shame on heritage foundation for the tweet today, and i hope that people start focusing on what is true and right rather than scaring people. fearmongering in politics has turned dangerous. it's been that way some time but going to see it increase if folks don't start walking in full knowledge of the truth. >> mississippi, a state starving for infrastructure and governor there is just cut taxes. they already have their taxes cut to the bone, they have jackson, the capital, they don't have water. he doesn't want that, you don't want -- you just want to cut taxes. quickly, i don't understand from political science point of view, at certain point don't you want water, rail to work, infrastructure? i don't understand the republican position saying no to that. >> well that's what i was saying earlier, it's untenable but it's a cash grab, grist and ponzi and pyramid scheme, trying to do as much as possible in short time and consequences be damned later. keep in mind, hope for the future, florida continues to be competitive state. even though the presidential results weren't as close as some thought, in midterms, gill am and nelson didn't lose by many votes. if the democrats make a real play for florida, they can turn it around. if not, look at this as cradle of the republican party of the future. all the major candidates are coming out of this state for the republicans. >> we got to debate that one, they've got to find the right candidates, it's hard to win, fernand, angela. thank you very much. up next, america's white evangelical movement's cult-like adoration of donald trump is confluence with qanon conspiracy theories, more on that next. theories, more on that next. lavender baths calmed him. so we made a plan to turn bath time into a business. ♪ ♪ find a northwestern mutual advisor at nm.com i've got moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are getting clearer. ♪ ♪ i feel free to bare my skin yeah, that's all me. ♪ ♪ nothing and me go hand in hand nothing on my skin, ♪ ♪ that's my new plan. ♪ ♪ nothing is everything. ♪ achieve clearer skin with skyrizi. 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months. of those, nearly 9 out of 10 sustained it through 1 year. and skyrizi is 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. ♪ i see nothing in a different way it's my moment ♪ ♪ so i just gotta say... ♪ ♪ nothing is everything. ♪ skyrizi may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms such as fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches, or coughs or if you plan to or recently received a vaccine. ♪ nothing is everything. ♪ now is the time to ask your dermatologist about skyrizi. it's moving day. and while her friends are doing the heavy lifting, ♪ nothing is everything. ♪ jess is busy moving her xfinity internet and tv services. it only takes about a minute. wait, a minute? but what have you been doing for the last two hours? ...delegating? oh, good one. move your xfinity services without breaking a sweat. xfinity makes moving easy. go online to transfer your services in about a minute. get started today. conservatives who have attempted to cancel many aspects of american life, colin kaepernick to the 2020 election results, are fuming over the corporations taking a stand against the georgia jim crow voting law designed to cancel black voters. mike huckabee, southern baptist minister tweeted day before easter i decided to identify as chinese, coke will like me, delta will agree with my value, ain't america great. and trigger happy congresswoman lauren boebert uncanceled jesus on twitter, and accused of heresy for easter tweet about helping others on the 53rd anniversary of mlk's assassination. perfect, sums up what christian right twitter looked like easter weekend. racism, heresy and jesus rising from the ashes of burnt dr. seuss books. joining me, althea butler, author of "white evangelical racism," let's jump in this. it's counterintuitive, but strongest adherents to trumpism are white evangelicals, voted 76% for trump. that's consistent. 28% of voters. can you explain that? >> yes, they love donald trump. he is their guy, king cyrus and did what they wanted, gave them supreme court judges, judges, didn't care if he had been married three times. morality is a shield for evangelicals to get power. thing we haven't understood before. all the things that happened over easter weekend were not about jesus but how can we continue to be front and center in the media scrum, and not only that but take down the senator we want to come against when we have a special election in 2022? disingenuous to pretend they care about morality, when they care about power. >> baptists didn't say anything when major league baseball was segregated, let people play. didn't defend dr. king. this is the speech that dr. king gave that mentions coca-cola, final speech in tennessee. take a listen. >> we're asking you tonight to go out and tell your neighbors not to buy coca-cola in memphis. >> he was saying boycott because wasn't going to hire black people so we should not buy coca-cola. and king with the poor people's campaign, that's the gospel i grew up with, mind the poor, immigrant and suffering who jesus loved. no, they want christians first and judges, what does the movement want? >> power for themselves, first of all. favor for themselves. they have forgotten that jesus said to mend the poor and brokenhearted. don't care about anyone but themselves, won't get vaccinated, do anything that helps their fellow man. i think they have forgotten the golden rule. and as i point out in my book, this is 200-year history of evangelicals, not donald trump but everything that's led up to it. talking about slavery, the ways in which billy graham didn't want the civil rights movement and was cool about king after a while, all the things that happened from the '70s forward, what we have to understand is game that evangelicals are playing today is same they've always played. morality for you, not for me. that's what's important. i think we need to understand that. >> bishop was saying, evangelical is bringing good news to the poor, what you're supposed to talk about. vaccine, this is going to be a public health problem, resistance is obstacle to the effort. millions do not intend to get vaccinated against covid-19, mistrust of science, of et cetera, and their politics. now it's a public health issue. what can be done if in their churches they're preaching against the vaccine. i don't know how we get to herd immunity without 28% of the population. >> we're not, and going to have a lot of funerals in those churches where they refuse to wear masks and everything else because they believe jesus is going to save them or it's just my time. this is the selfishness where they've gone. it's sad thing. there have been things good about the movement but antiscience sentiment and digging heels in promises to be a debacle. on top of the racism, calling coronavirus a chinese virus all the things their lord and savior trump said, you have to wonder what is wrong with these people they continue to go against the best interests of not just themselves but rest of the society. there's nothing that says anything about what jesus christ taught. it is a movement stuck on itself and not on the person who is supposed to be the center of it. >> and can you tell us then, is there a liberal evangelicalism that is counter to that and is it of significant size to counter what you're seeing in that right-wing evangelicalism? i think there is, part of what is happening now, see younger people, people who have been disgusted with the movement, with the racism, with the homophobia and everything else, leaving in droves. start to see the numbers going down. i think what we're seeing is -- i never want to say that religious right or evangelicals are going away, what i think we're seeing is attrition based on where they are right now in terms of their recalcitrance and secondly, i don't think they can expect anybody to want to join the baptist church when beth moore has left and last southern baptist in the news shot eight people in atlanta because of supposed sex addiction. >> and they have control of the supreme court, 6-3 ahead. >> this is going to be issue for us. this is one of the things that the biden administration will have to think about, whether or not they want to expand the court, what happens with the court, what will the court do if they get a roe versus wade case up there. abortion is not only thing evangelicals want, they want to be in power, that's the bottom line. >> indeed, thank you so much for being here. best of luck with the book. that's "the reid out." "all in" with chris hayes starts now. tonight on "all in," companies call out voter suppression push as man who empowered corporations complains they're bullying republicans. >> my advice to corporate ceos of america, stay out of politics. >> senator bernie sanders on the pushback against the big lie. and shocking/not shocking reporting how the trump campaign bilked supporters out of money. and derek chauvin trial, chief

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