will commit additional acts of violence, it's more a question of when. welcome to thursday. this is "meet the press daily." i'm chuck todd. six asian women are dead when gunman aaron long went on a two-county rampage targeting spas in the area. while a motive has not yet been determined, the reality is this happened to have happened during a massive rise in asian american violence in this nation. a year after the prior administration referred to the pandemic as the china virus or the kung flu. now our leaders are being forced to recon with a ugly reality. two senior administration officials tell nbc news president biden and vice president harris will meet with asian american leaders when they visit atlanta tomorrow. flags are being flown at half-staff in honor of the victims and members of congress did something they said they have not done in more than 30 years, held a hearing on violence against asians and other americans. sitting and testifying about their experiences, it was an emotional morning of testimony. punctuated by an exchange between congressman chip roy, who seemed to take issue with the focus of hearing and democratic congresswoman grace may, who was invited as a witness to testify. watch. >> my concern about this hearing is that it seems to want to venture into the policing of rhetoric from' free society, free free, and away from the rule of law and taking out bad guys. so now we're talking about whether talking about china, chinese communist party, whatever phrasing we want to use and if some people are saying, hey, we think those guys are the bad guys for whatever reason -- and let me just state clearly, i do. >> so that was some of what congressman chip roy said. and here was congresswoman meng's response to him. >> we cannot turn a blind eye to living in fear. i want to go back to something mr. roy said earlier, your president, your party and your colleague can talk about issues with any other country that you want, but you don't have to do it by putting a bull's-eye on the back of asian americans across this country on our grandparents, and our kids. this hearing was to address the hurt and pain of our community, to find solutions and we will not let you take our voice away from us! >> nbc news correspondent jo ling kent is here with more on the house hearing, i have tom winter for more on the investigation and kimmy yen has been reporting on the rise of violence against asian americans. jo, i want to start with you. pretty emotional hearing today. this is surfacing the problem but what were some of the solutions discussed as well? >> yeah, that emotional moment from the congresswoman really reflects what so many people in the asian american community throughout this country feel right now, is that it's defensive invisibility despite the number of pieces of evidence showing a huge problem here. and some of the solutions that were discussed, chuck, inside the hearing were about visibility, about education and making sure hate incidents and hate crimes are better documented. there's a couple of pieces of legislation out there that are currently being considered to put forth, put some resources behind those requests right now. but i -- the issue of the debate between what the topic actually is at hand was reflected not just by congresswoman meng but other people who are testifying as well. listen to what a select portion of what they had to say -- >> last year when i heard the highest levels of government, people using racist words like china virus to spread xenophobia and cast light on innocent communities. comments like these only reveal a legacy of racism, anti-asian sentiment and insensitivity that seeks to divide our nation. >> combating hate is not a partisan issue. >> i'm asking you to please stop using racist terms like kung flu, woo han virus or other ethnic identifiers in this resident virus. i'm not a virus. >> now, as we hear from those who are testifying and those on the committee, chuck, one major theme rings true, this issue is not going to be solved by any stretch any time soon, and that's why members of the community are asking for an increased amount of investment in tackling the issue. if you take a look at the stop aapi hate tracking and data we have, we know of these hate incidents, nearly 70% are reported by women and are happening in front of our businesses, inside businesses, on public streets, all over the country. and so the hearing continues to go on and we're watching it but we're really seeing this theme ee merge of getting rid of invisibility first, education, tracking and creating policies that actually can foster a more equitable, fair, environment for asian americans. that's really what's jumped out so far. >> i want -- can you dive into the i visibility issue jo, which is this issue that many asian americans have been hesitant to report this stuff. and only in the last year have we seen a little bit but there's been almost -- is it cultural? what is it that -- there is so much he's he's tans to report about these incidents. >> there are oftentimes hesitancy because of the model minority missed. they do well, doctors and ceos and lawyers and go to the best colleges and universities when in our reality our community faces the biggest economic disparity of most racial groups and it's also an invisibility issue when it comes to the things that happen on a daily basis, that have been absorbed by the community. like, for example, racial slurs are getting shunned at a local business. according to pew research, 3-10 racial americans have experienced a racial slur, more than any other racial group and that's as of data last summer. when you have these issues compounded by a pandemic and compounded by what many business owners have told me a twin, a double virus, if you will. the issue of the pandemic itself, plus this pervasive racism, you just have a huge mountain to climb. and that's where some of the invisibility comes. i know kimmy yen can speak to much more on this topic but this is really the issue you see playing out on this hearing right now, is there's a disconnect and there's a plea for justice being acknowledged, and i think that's what you see daniel dae kim saying and representative meng and everyone who has spoken since then. >> kimmy yen, you were name-checked so i'm going to bring you into this conversation. do you want top expand upon what jo ling kent was saying? >> yes, jo definitely brought up a couple of issues we've been grabbling with throughout the pandemic. one thing that i did want to and expand upon is that there are several barriers to reporting a lot of these incidents. many of them include, you know, language barriers. there's also lack of access to a lot of these resources or there's lack of awareness that a lot of these resources do exist for these communities. i think that one really big barrier that isn't mentioned enough is in a lot of these low-income communities, there's a fear of retaliation that if they do report to law enforcement or other groups, that the perpetrators, the attacks will come back. so the fear in the asian american community is very real right now, and it certainly is not -- it's likely compounded by the events that we are seeing unfold. >> i want to delve a little bit more into atlanta. you write about in your piece you go into the long history of the roles asian women have been relegated to nut workforce. how do you believe that history potentially contributed to this attack? >> it yeah, i know thought suspect mentioned, he claimed there was no racial motivation involved. the issue here is that experts and activists also stress that given the way in which asian women have been seen in this country, historically fetishized, hyper sexualized, it's made them particularly susceptible to sexual and physical violence. and so, therefore, it's impossible to divorce race from this conversation. we've seen as jo had mentioned in the 3,800 incidents that were reported in the stop aapi hate forum, roughly 68% of respondents were women and that's compared to 29% that were men. and there's this idea that because, you know, we are -- we are stereotypes as weak or that we won't fight back, that we're easier targets. so many experts say that's likely playing into what we are seeing here. >> let me bring in tom winter with an update here on the investigation. so, tom, first of all, who's in charge of this investigation? i ask this because i think there's a lot of concern about the leadership in cherokee county. so who is the lead on this investigation, the folks in fulton county or cherokee county? >> right now, chuck, that's not immediately clear that anybody is going to be able to move forward and have a specific leadership because it is -- there's a series of crimes that occurred in one county, right, and a series of crimes that occurred in another. does this go to the georgia bureau of investigation, can they get involved? does the case get consolidated? those are all questions we have, quite frankly, we're trying to get answers on. unless some somehow becomes a federal investigation and to be clear, there's no indication at this point that's where this is going. so at the moment it remains -- >> i was going to ask about that. let me interrupt you there. there is potentially a way -- i mean, i don't think you and i would be shocked if maybe the president had an announcement when he got to atlanta tomorrow or that the attorney general was going to at least open an investigation on whether this was a hate crime. isn't that -- if it is a hate crime, does that bring in the feds? >> that would definitely change things. excuse me, that would definitely change things as far as where this bows from here. i think what they would have to -- they would have to find some sort of predicate information to open the investigation. i think the fact the vast majority of victims here are in fact asian, is that enough that allows them to open that case? and is the vast majority of the investigate here are women, is that enough? under the shepherd-bird jr. hate act of 2009. so i think there's a couple different ways for the federal government to investigate this. it's going to be difficult based on the statements of the person involved in the shooting or person who the authorities say did this, who is robert aaron long, they're going to have find at this point some additional information, whether it be victims' statements, information on his phone or devices that would try to push the investigation that way. we're just going to have to see, chuck. >> well, i was just going to say, they had his devices -- our colleague shep smith did an interview with the sheriff's office there. and i was amazed at what he didn't know. he wasn't sure what they had or didn't have. it was over 48 hours, that's not usually the case here, and maybe when this interview was done, it was 36 hours, but that seemed a little unusual to me, it seems like they don't know this information or they don't want to share it? >> from the device standpoint, it didn't seem odd to me, if you want to thoroughly go through everything, that takes a little time because we don't know how many devices of individual media this individual had. so with respect to that, i will give ut benefit of the doubt. but i think the mistake made at the press conference yesterday, you could have gotten up and attributed, look, these are the statements we're getting from the person we charged with murder in this crime, however, we still have an ongoing investigation and want to hear more from some of the people at these day spas. we want to hear some more information from family members or associated. we want to hear from people who have known him for a long time and make sure there's not a rogue social media account out there that can help us with motive. i think that's probably the tact they probably wish they had taken. i think that's the tactic the fbi would have taken if they were leading the investigation u . with that said at this point as we sit here 1:15 eastern time on thursday afternoon, i don't have anybody telling me that this is now veering towards a hate crime, but, of course, this takes time and we will see where the case develops. >> kimmy yam, is the asian american community ever going to see this as not a hate crime, no matter what the official word is? >> regardless of whether it is charged as a hate crime or not, i think as people of color, race always plays into nearly every interaction that we are in. and i think that in terms of what we are seeing in this case, i know not a ton of details have come out and emerged yet, but in what we are seeing and in the language that's been used, i know experts have even mentioned when he's saying, you know, that he's trying to get rid of temptation, for example, by eliminating these spas, that hearkens kind of back to these stereotypes of asian women being these temptresses and manipulative temptresses and that kind of puts the onus on victims, experts say, rather than on the perpetrator u so regardless of whether or not it's formally charged as a hate crime, race cannot be ignored in this, because of the ways american asians and american asian women in particular have been dealing with violence since entering the u.s. there are a confluence of factors going into this, legal codes, policies, american history of imperial domination, and the prevailing culture historians note that all of this has come together to really create an environment in which violence against women is possible. >> jo ling kent, tom winter and kimmy yam, thank you all for getting us started on this important story. kimmy, it's very nice to have you on this program. look forward to having you on again. still ahead -- changing the rules. as president biden opens the door to filibuster reform, senator mitch mcconnell threatens a scorched-earth reaction, and he may not be able to deliver on that. first, dr. fauci was back on capitol hill as new covid concerns are growing as the drop in new cases is, well, stalling. did you know that 70% of the soils on your clothes are invisible? 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but what have you been doing for the last two hours? ...delegating? oh, good one. move your xfinity services without breaking a sweat. xfinity makes moving easy. go online to transfer your services in about a minute. get started today. welcome back. democrats in favor of overhauling the filibuster as a way to potentially make it easier to enact president biden's agenda are feeling a little more helpful at president biden seemed to express support for changing the rules a little. take a listen. >> i don't think you have to eliminate the filibuster. you have to do what it used to be when i first got to the senate, and that is a filibuster, you had to stand up and command the floor. once you stopped talking, you lost that and someone could move in and say, i move the question of. so you have to work from filibuster. >> you're for that reform, you're for bringing back the talking filibuster? >> i am. that's what it was supposed to be. >> restoring the talking filibuster, this would force senators to actively hold the floor by talking for hours on end, holding up all other senate business in the process and potentially, publicly having to show opposition to potentially bills that are popular, i'm not saying all of the bills are popular but that's the only outcome. while the full democratic caucus has not coalesced behind any kind of plan, senator minority leader mitch mcconnell is this week renewing his threat of scorched-earth procedural tactics if the democratic majority alters the filibuster rules. >> this chaos would not open up an express lane to liberal change. it would not open up an express lane for the biden presidency to speed into the history books. the senate would be more like a 100-car pileup, nothing moving. >> joining me now is a former colleague of many of those democrats grappling with the filibuster question and she's grappled with this question, former missouri senator claire medications cass kill, msnbc political analyst and un-reporter trying to figure out whip counts and things like that. senator mccaskill, it's good to have you. let me start with the talking filibuster. it does seem to me before you get to eliminating the filibuster, there's going to be this show to say, okay, let's try this before you maybe get everybody on board to eliminate it. do you think this will have an impact? >> yeah, here's what has to happen, chuck, they have to pick out bills that are very popular and committee chairman have to mark them up and take a vote in committee. by the way, even if the vote is tied in committee because many committees are 50-50, those bills can still move to the floor and those popular votes have to be put on the floor for a vote. them you have to demonstrate to the american people, and especially voters in states where it is not bright blue and not bright red that there's real dysfunction in the senate. i mean, this puts tremendous pressure -- you want to know what makes mitch mcconnell uncomfortable, that is having to vote on something that is going to be hard for a republican candidate in pennsylvania to defend. a vote on something that's going to be hard for a republican candidate in wisconsin to defend. so we're spending so much time focusing on who's for and against the filibuster, let's focus on these republican senators that are not voting their constituents. they're not voting what their constituents want, they're just blocking the senate. and give me a break, mitch mcconnell, you broke the senate a long time ago. all of your threats are just luster. >> let me start with your plan here. i think i have heard a similar version, which is okay. because you've got to demonstrate to the public the system is broken, you can't just say it, right, you've got to show them. manchin/toomey, that background check bill that it 80% to 90% support, you put that up. before a filibuster just prevented -- and nobody quite knew what the rational was, just that oh, there's 41-plus that don't want to have it. oh, well, time to move on. in a talking filibuster, everything else stops and then they would be up there, for what, how long opposing -- and then there's a spotlight on their opposition, right? >> yeah, who's going to want to take the baton? who wants that spotlight on a bill that has 60%, 70%, 80% of americans supporting it? all they have to do now is send an email to the cloakroom. that's not what this was supposed to be. it was not supposed to be a senator sitting in their office, or even worse yet, at home, sending an email to the cloakroom saying i object and all of a sudden everything falls apart. it's time to make senators stand up for what they believe in and then let the people decide because, honestly, chuck, you can talk all you want to whether there's votes to get rid of the filibuster but first you have to get to the point do you have 50 votes for something? and some of these things, the left is saying get rid of the filibuster and they're all pass, i don't think they would count as a vote. so let's take this one step at a time. let's do the progressive things that have broad, political support and put these republicans on the line. that's what is going to be effective not only getting good stuff done but building the majority so that you don't have a whisker-thing majority. >> i want to move to the mitch mcconnell threat because i don't understand his threat. on one hand he says if the democrats do this, he's going to cause all sorts of gridlock, which americans would say and that's different how? but the second thing, i'm being a little cynical on that one, but let me get to his second point, then he says just wait until republicans are in charge, there's going to be all sorts of votes on stuff that's unpopular. i'm going, are you -- how is this an argument against getting rid of the filibuster? i don't quite get what he's threatening. he almost seems to say, it feels like in the movie "blazing saddles" where he holds the gun to himself. and you're like he doesn't want to get rid of the filibuster, it sound like, because he knows there are going to be bills on abortion we would have to bring to the floor as majority leader, i guess. the. >> yeah, that's the thing, i mean, ultimately, people are going to decide at the ballot box, who's extreme and who isn't? with all due respect, mitch mcconnell talking about scorched earth, ask merrick garland if mitch mcconnell had already scorched the earth when he was nominated to be a supreme court justice. ask the senators who have quit having the opportunity to debate and amend bills over the last five, six years because mitch mcconnell basically shut down the senate. he's already scorched the earth. now it's time to make people show where they stand, and let the public see where they stand, and if they're on the side of the majority of the public, them the republicans will win in 2022. but if they're not, we're going to pick up wisconsin, we're going to pick up pennsylvania, we're going to continue to build a majority towards the values that so many on the left are so anxious -- and i get it, i am too -- to get done. >> you're making a case that the talking filibuster is essentially a form of transparency. it's like you want to oppose, you have to show your work. many is that a fair way to -- a transparency reform? >> absolutely. and start voting on stuff. start having committee votes on things. start exposing that this is some mon linlic block aid to things most americans think are a pretty good idea. >> claire mccaskill, former democratic senator from missouri, msnbc analyst, our unofficial senate reporters at times, thank you very much. >> thanks, chuck. >> still ahead -- the european medicines agency delivers its official assessment on the astrazeneca vaccine as health officials address new concerns hereby at home. keep it here. ow me from six degrees of well... me. but it's time to expand. see, visible is wireless with no surprise fees, legit unlimited data, powered by verizon for as little as $25 a month. but when you bring a friend every month, you get every month for $5. so i'm bringing everyone within 12 degrees of me. bam, 12 months of $5 wireless. visible. as little as $25 a month. or $5 a month when you bring a friend. powered by verizon. wireless that gets better with friends. advanced non-small cell lung cancer can change everything. but your first treatment could be a chemo-free combination of two immunotherapies that works differently. it could mean a chance to live longer. opdivo plus yervoy is for adults newly diagnosed with non-small cell lung cancer that has spread and that tests positive for pd-l1 and does not have an abnormal egfr or alk gene. opdivo plus yervoy is the first and only fda-approved combination of two immunotherapies opdivo plus yervoy equals... a chance for more starry nights. more sparkly days. more big notes. more small treasures. more family dinners. more private desserts. opdivo and yervoy can cause your immune system to attack healthy parts of your body during and after treatment. these problems can be severe and lead to death. see your doctor right away if you have a cough; chest pain; shortness of breath; irregular heartbeat; diarrhea; constipation; severe stomach pain, nausea or vomiting; dizziness; fainting; eye problems; extreme tiredness; changes in appetite, thirst or urine; rash; itching; confusion; memory problems; muscle pain or weakness; joint pain; flushing; or fever. these are not all the possible side effects. problems can occur at the same time and some more often when opdivo is used with yervoy. tell your doctor about all medical conditions including immune or nervous system problems, if you've had or plan to have an organ or stem cell transplant, or received chest radiation. here's to a chance for more horizons. a chance to live longer. ask your doctor about chemo-free opdivo plus yervoy. thank you to all involved in our clinical trials. here you go, let me help you. ask your doctor about chemo-free opdivo plus yervoy. hi mr. charles, we made you dinner. ahh, thank you! ready to eat? 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[szasz] we take care of ourselves constantly; it's important. we walk three to five times a week, a couple miles at a time. - we've both been taking prevagen for a little more than 11 years now. after about 30 days of taking it, we noticed clarity that we didn't notice before. - it's still helping me. i still notice a difference. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. ♪ for every idea out there, that gets the love it should ♪ ♪ there are 5 more that don't succeed ♪ ♪ and so are lost for good ♪ ♪ and some of them are pretty flawed ♪ ♪ and some of them are slightly odd ♪ ♪ but many are small businesses that simply lack the tool ♪ ♪ to find excited people who will stop and say 'that's cool'♪ ♪ and these two, they like this idea ♪ ♪ and those three like that one.♪ ♪ and that's 'cause personalized ads ♪ ♪ find good ideas for everyone ♪ welcome back. a major development just a few minutes ago in the effort to get people arp the world vaccinated. the european world agency, the group responsible for monitoring vaccine safety in the eu, our version of the fda, just ruled the astrazeneca vaccine is safe and effective after concern about it causing blood clots, halted distribution across the eu. the ema decided that the positive impact of the vaccine far outweighs the risk. they're not ruling out this vaccine might be responsible for blood clots in some folks, but that the risks are not there to somehow cancel the vaccine. france and italy, two countries experiencing a worrying spike in cases, are prepared to restart vaccinations based on this recommendation immediately. joining me now is dr. patel, former white house physician in the obama administration and msnbc medical contributor. dr. patel, this is a very concerning development in europe for this reason, which is basically a rumor that ran wild about the vaccine, right, or concern, ended up prompting a halt to vaccinations without scientific basis to do it, and then it took a sort of reaffirmation by scientists to restart, i mean, that -- we're glad they cleared it up, but i mean that could easily happen in this country where basically a rumor shuts down our vaccinations. >> oh, absolutely, chuck, the damage has been done. it's 37 incidents of clots, clots in the veins, clots in the lungs, serious things, 37 out of 17 million people vaccinated, and what's amazing to all of us is when you look at the data of people who were vaccinated and people who were unvaccinated, lo and behold, you find clots happen in people who are unvaccinated, and i've said this so many times not on air but i will say it on air, correlation is not causality. it's like one of tour tenants in health research. just because you find a pattern does not mean that's the cause of something. that completely got wiped out, and i hate to say it, chuck, a lot of us have been talking in the united states, hard to imagine how we even come back from this if astrazeneca, which is likely to apply for an authorization based on u.s. data that's coming out soon, hard to imagine that the damage isn't done here also, another reminder that science somehow just failed in terms of coming forward beyond myth. >> you're despondent over this, right. you're not happy about it. i have one piece of good news to share with you. it's from the state of mississippi. they did a poll, our friends at the mississippi journal, did a poll in january. they had 34% of folks in mississippi said they probably wouldn't take the vaccine. two months later that's down to 20%. so we're up to 80% of mississippians, a state that there was a lot of concern there would be vaccine hesitancy. so essentially what gets credited as more people get vaccinated, more people see their friends and family are fine. so it's made -- i guess what i will say, we showed you the bad news in europe, and there is good on-the-ground news too. >> absolutely, no question. the fact we're watching people preventing death, preventing severe hospitalizations, grandparents hugging their kids, laughter, that's everything we need, chuck. i just hope people avoid packing themselves inside restaurants and bars because we're also seeing a plateau in cases and in places like manhattan, chuck, we are seeing an increase in places i would be worried about the moat because of the variants and because not everybody's been vaccinated yet. >> i was just going to say, when you say you're worried, give me a level of worry, do you think we can get into lockdown worry in a place like manhattan or michigan where we are seeing uncomfortable rises here? or more like, you know, something a little less than that? >> i do think it's short of that. remember, we never loved the lockdown concept in general. it doesn't tend to work, to be honest, but it's going to be an increase in cases and here's where the problem is on the ground, it's confusion. you have governors of all stripes saying open, open, open. schools that are pressured to open but feeling squeezed. and here's the kicker, you and i i always love to talk about testing, we're only doing about a million tests a day. for the rate of decrease, we're actually performing less tests at a larger decreased proportion. so we're not keeping with the trend, we're forming way fewer tests. so it's getting caught by surprise, increased cases and along with that, unfortunately, hospitalizations that could be prevented if they were vaccinated. >> you know, you bring up the testing and tracing issue and you're right, it's just sort of been our initial failure in this country. i would assume now that vaccinations are starting to get -- are the more people we get vaccinated, the more opportunity we have to reinstitute a testing and tracing program. but i'm not hearing a lot out of the biden team about this yet. do you think they need to be talking that up more? are they doing things behind the scenes that we don't know? >> yes, yes and no. they are devoting a billion dollars to testing in full. they announced a better pthway for the food and drug administration to make it accommodating to get cheaper surveillance tests more people can use in their home and are more cheaper but i think you're asking the right question, chuck, what are we thinking about the health public infrastructure going forward? a year from now what will it look like so we're not caught flatfooted? i hope that's going to come in the president's budget and probably preview in the infrastructure bill as well. >> dr. patel, great to have your opinion. thank you. coming up -- a warning violent extremism poses an elevated, more violent risk of what we faced last year. first, a call for the help of the most violent fbi attackers. specifically the fbi is releasing videos of ten people seen assaulting police officers. we're showing you the images now and warning, the images are disturbing. these images are all on fbi.gov and if you have any information, call 1-800-call-fbi or submit a tip online at tips.fbi.gov. doesn't look like these are patriots here, that's for sure. we'll be right back. eaning the . plants clean the air. when applied to stained textiles, plant-based surfactants like the ones in seventh generation detergent trap stains at the molecular level and flush them away. plant-based detergents clean your clothes. it's just science! just... science. seventh generation. powered by plants. tackles stains. with hepatitis c... ...i felt i couldn't be at my... ...best for my family. in only 8 weeks with mavyret... ...i was cured. i faced reminders of my hep c every day. i worried about my hep c. but in only 8 weeks with mavyret... ...i was cured. mavyret is the only 8-week cure for all types of hep c. before starting mavyret your doctor will test... ...if you've had hepatitis b which may flare up and cause serious liver problems during and after treatment. tell your doctor if you've had hepatitis b, a liver or kidney transplant,... ...other liver problems, hiv-1, or other medical conditions,... ...and all medicines you take. don't take mavyret with atazanavir... ...or rifampin, or if you've had certain liver problems. if you've had or have serious liver problems other than hep c, there's a rare chance they may worsen. signs of serious liver problems may include yellowing of the skin, abdominal pain or swelling, confusion, and unexplained bleeding or bruising. tell your doctor if you develop symptoms of liver disease. common side effects include headache and tiredness. with hep c behind me, i feel free... ...fearless... ...because i am cured. if you can't afford your medicine, abbvie may be able to help. are you packed yet? our flight is early tomorrow. and it's a long flight too. once we get there, we will need... buttercup! ♪ welcome back. we now have yet another warning of the growing dangers of domestic violence extremism in this country. the office of the director of national intelligence declassified a new domestic intelligence threat assessment done in coordination with the fbi and department of homeland security. this report warns of militias and white supremacists feeling emboldened by what they see as the success of the january 6th attack on the capitol. it says these extremists will, quote, almost certainly, unquote, try to engage in some form of violence this year. joined by our own ken dilanian, covers the intel and national security. ken, the origins of this dni report, i know is this the report that president biden ordered put together the first order of business for the intel community, or is this a report that was actually put together before biden took office? >> no, chuck, this is the fruits of what biden and his dni avril haines ordered up, assessment on the state of the threat from domestic terrorism and they're really laying down a marker here. my sources cannot imagine a document like this having been produced in the trump administration, even though all of this intelligence has been gathered all along during the trump administration. in fact, there was a conference at the national counterterrorism center last year but it didn't get publicized because intelligence officials knew trump would not want to hear them talking about this. the other issue here, chuck, is it's important this is coming from the director of national intelligence, because the intelligence community has been extremely reluck tapt to get involved in the issue of domestic terrorism because they're afraid of being seep seen as spying on americans. but there is room to analyze intelligence about threats of violence, planning for violence by domestic extremists. it's not illegal for them to engage in hate speech but it's illegal for them to plan and threaten violence, chuck. >> so i want to tie in january 6th here. we are seeing a bit more of it looks like a cohesive -- coherent investigation into the proud boys and oath keepers but particularly the proud boys and certainly smells like a conspiracy charge is coming here. do you sense that basically the fbi's stance on the proud boys has changed basically from where they viewed them january 5th to how they view them today? >> i think so, and there are some experts who express frustration over the years that they haven't woken up to this, the fbi hasn't, before. the proud boys have been engaging in violence for some time and have been arrested for violence at rallies. and some advocates said, look, fbi, you had all of the information you node to take these people seriously and you weren't. they certainly are now, chuck. and it's certainly clear from the court records in the capitol riot investigations case the fbi believed there was a vanguard of groups, proud boys, oath keepers, 3%ers, that were really leading the charge of a lot of people who got swept up and made a spontaneous decision. you're absolutely right, chuck. the good news from the intelligence assessment though is it says the real threat is from lone wolves and small cells, not from these organized militias in terms of domestic terrorist attacks. that's good news because that would be very dangerous if the proud boys and oath keepers were trying to blow up buildings. no evidence of that so far. >> no doubt but these lone wolves do quite a bit of damage as well. that's obviously a concern but that it hasn't grown into something bigger still. it looks like dni took a lot of information and decided to connect some dotted. ken delanian, one of our very important national security reporters, thank you, sir. still ahead -- we're dealing into the consequences of the massive hack attack likely by china and it may still be ongoing. tired of clean clothes that just don't smell clean? 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>> i'm not able to say that, but welcome forward and say who we believe perpetrated the attack. >> with me now is kirsten todd. she's a manager of the cyber ready organization. kirsten, we knew about what the russians did, now the common denominator is still microsoft and we're talking china this time. instead of focusing on the two perpetrators, i want to focus you on the security aspect. how vulnerable are microsoft products right now, and does the federal government have a problem here? >> i think, first of all, chuck, thanks for having me on. the question really is how vulnerable is our infrastructure. it's not to how we look at microsoft, it's our software and how our software is constructed. what we know is software has vulnerabilities, and it's the responsibility of companies when they identify those vulnerabilities to issue patches and things like that. we've certainly seen microsoft do that in big government. but our infrastructure is not constructed with security as a priority, and we saw this especially with solar winds. we saw solar winds made cost-cutting decisions so they prioritized revenue over security. we have to step back as a nation and have the government work with industry to figure out what are the standards that need to happen where we prioritize security and we have a much more secure infrastructure. >> president biden has hinted there is going to be a coming executive order on cybersecurity. i guess among the ideas is he wants to set up some sort of grading function, i guess, right? what do you know about that? can you put more meat on that bone? >> sure. it's actually something that we looked at with president obama's commission, which is essentially like a consumer reports or a nutrition label for software, for kind of using a layman's term. the idea is you can kind of look at a label and get transparency about how the software was developed, where it was developed, what goes into it, the same way you would look at a nutrition label. you may see something that has a lot of fat. it doesn't mean you're not going to eat it or buy it, but it at least gives you the knowledge and transparency to know what you're buying. this stuff is an important one. it's something we talked a lot about in this space for several years, so it's great to see the biden administration really take this as a priority. >> can you ever have 100% security if you're dealing with the private sector and you're sharing the same tools, or does government need to build its own tools when it comes to the most sensitive security in cyber? >> i don't think that the answer lies in government doing this by themselves. i think what we recognize across the board is that industry and government both have capabilities, skill sets and expertise that need to be collaborated together, they need to collaborate together. in looking at that, it's about government and industry coming together to build out the secure infrastructure. but we have to prioritize security. we have to make sure that security is built into these products. it's like getting a car and you later on decide that you want to upgrade an engine or something like that. it doesn't make any sense to do that later on. you want to buy the right car at the outset and you want to really build this infrastructure to be secure from the beginning. >> how much of a problem is how the software is built from the beginning, and how much of it is just a function of microsoft going, hey, we told you to put knees patches and you didn't do it? >> well, it's a combination across the board, right? it's the idea that, first of all, we have start from a place where you build security into it. the second is what is the responsibility of the companies as they build for it. in the last several years, microsoft has built-in security, but it doesn't mean it doesn't have vulnerabilities. microsoft has actually worked very close with the white house recently for this most recent microsoft exchange breach for small businesses that is essentially one click, making it virtually impossible for small businesses. if we look at the large companies, they certainly have the responsibility they're following through on. i'm more concerned about the smaller technology companies that don't have the infrastructure support that are being motivated by venture firms that are telling them they've got to cut costs. that, to me, is where i think our greater vulnerabilities lie right now. >> then if that's the case, do we have to create a minimum security threshold in order to -- you've got to prove your software is x level of secure before you even get to interact or apply for a government contract? >> i do think this is the next step. what's going to be important, though, in executing that is that it doesn't become a compliance checklist, because every business has to manage its risk. but there has to be some kind of risk management profile for businesses that are doing work not just with governments but with our large owners of supply chains, whether it's companies -- manufacturing companies and others that are really executing this. >> kirsten todd, as always, really appreciate your expertise on this and putting this in english for us so we can understand what's happening here. thanks so much. and thank you all for being with us this hour. we'll be back tomorrow with more "meet the press daily." msnbc's coverage continues can katy tur right after this break. n katy tur right after this break. ” joe esposito] [music: “you're the best” by joe esposito] [triumphantly yells] [ding] don't get mad. get e*trade and take charge of your finances today. mornings were made for better things than rheumatoid arthritis. when considering another treatment, ask about xeljanz... a pill for adults with moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis when methotrexate has not helped enough. xeljanz can help relieve joint pain and swelling, stiffness, and helps stop further joint damage, even without methotrexate. xeljanz can lower your ability to fight infections. before and during treatment, your doctor should check for infections, like tb and do blood tests. tell your doctor if you've had hepatitis b or c, have flu-like symptoms, or are prone to infections. serious, sometimes fatal infections, cancers including lymphoma, and blood clots have happened. taking a higher than recommended dose of xeljanz for ra may increase risk of death. tears in the stomach or intestines and serious allergic reactions have happened. don't let another morning go by without asking your doctor about the pill first prescribed for ra more than seven years ago. xeljanz. starting today, nobody has to settle for less than the very best. because only verizon gives you 5g from america's most reliable network at no extra cost. and plans to mix and match, so you only pay for what you need. the plan is so reasonable, they can stay on for the rest of their lives. aww... and on top of that, nobody gives you more entertainment you love like disney+, hulu and espn+ on select unlimited plans. you even get one of our best 5g phones on us when you buy one. and it all starts at just $35. only from verizon. good afternoon. i'm katy tur. the man who police say went on a rampage killing eight people at three atlanta area spas has now been charged with eight counts of murder. as we have been reporting, the majority of those killed were asian women, and at this hour, there are new questions about both the investigation and the prosecution. the first court appearance for the suspect was supposed to be today. it has been canceled, and at this point we don't know why. as for the investigation, atlanta police have just announced they will be holding a news conference at 3:00. and despite what the suspect is telling police about h

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