This Election Result so look for them to say over the coming days that the election is done. All right. Nicholas john stone, thank you. We appreciate it. Thank you for getting up early on this monday morning. Dont go anywhere because morning joe starts right now. You know, the alleged fraud outside the courtroom but when they go inside the courtroom they dont plead or argue fraud. If youre unwilling to present the evidence, it must mean the evidence doesnt exist. The country is what has to matter the most as much as im a strong republican, i love my party, its the country that has to come first. Whats happened here is quite frankly the concept of the legal team has been a national embarrassment. I have been a supporter of the president , i voted for him twice, but elections have consequences. And we cannot continue to act as if something happened here that didnt happen. You have an obligation to present the evidence, the evidence has not been presented. We used to go supervise elections Around The World and we were the most respected, you know, country with respect to elections and now were beginning to look like were a banana republic. Its time for them to stop the nonsense. It gets more bizarre every single day and frankly im embarrassed that more people in the party arent speaking up. Wow. Current republican governor larry hogan and Chris Christie agree on what to call it, an embarrassment. Joe, picking up that description over the weekend, the president and his campaign essentially admitted that their tactic is now to get State Legislatures and judges to flip the results in his favor. You know, its been kind of a ridiculous circus to watch with Rudy Giuliani, but that kind of goes beyond bumbling legal challenges, doesnt it . Well, it does. And actually, we talked about this Georgia Election thats coming up and Mitch Mcconnell is staying out of it because he didnt want to hurt the republicans chances of winning in georgia. We have a civil war in georgia between republicans now. Its not only attacking the Secretary Of State thats a republican, now donald trump and people that have been running around with his legal team are attacking the Secretary Of State, the governor, and actually suggesting that Kelly Loeffler who is running in one of those special Election Races shouldnt be there, that kemp rigged the election to help her. Come on. Get into the runoff. To the chaos is everywhere. Its pure idiocy. But its far more dangerous than it may appear on the surface. You know, lets bottom line this before we start the show. Donald trump and the Republican Party, theyre now actively working to steal electoral votes from michigan, pennsylvania, georgia, other states. Theyre going to do it by stripping millions of americans of their right to vote. Specifically tearing up their already cast ballots from earlier this month. I dont have to tell you, this is deeply unamerican. And its an unamerican, unpatriotic attack thats being performed right now by a handful of vile political operatives who are trying to carry out a coup look up the definition, overthrow the candidate who got over 300 electoral votes and theyre trying to overthrow a President Elect who received more votes than anybody in this constitutional. And think of that, Mitch Mcconnell, to stage a coup against the democratically elected president ial candidate who is President Elect and theyre doing it in the light of day. Theyre doing it with the acquiescence of republican senators and congressmen and congresswomen across the country. None dare call it treason, but maybe maybe they should. And with that, we will start the show this morning. With us we have White House Reporter for the Associated Press, Jonathan Lemire. Host of Msnbcs Politicsnation and president of the National Action network, Reverend Al Sharpton. And nbc news capitol hill correspondent and host of way too early, kasie hunt joins us. Kasie hunt, well, lets talk about whats going on the hill. Lets talk about whats going on in washington, d. C. You have a few scattered republicans that are saying you know, we shouldnt stage a coup. Lisa murkowski, a coup is a bad idea, mitch. Lisa murkowski saying, no, we cant strip people of their electoral votes, states of their electoral votes, a Pressure Campaign on those who influence the electoral outcome is not only unprecedented but inconsistent with our democratic process. I heard someone describe trump republicans as post democracy politicians. Theyre looking more and more like that every day, kasie. And i think youre starting to see cracks emerge because of what you just outlined. These are people who have to rely on americans having faith that their votes count, and that our elections are free and fair. These are elected republicans. They are still in the blind that President Trump has created for them and theres a lot of questions about whether trump would listen to them or care very much and i think Mitch Mcconnell is still worried about those races in georgia. And doesnt want the president to do anything to damage his chances of winning the Senate Majority there. But i think youre right. Its the longer this goes on, if worse it is overall for the country which youre starting to see the republicans acknowledge and say out loud, but its also for them politically just incredibly difficult. If you look at those races in georgia, their strongest argument in the races is to say well be a check on a Democratic Administration and Kelly Loeffler in addition to them saying about the elect being rigged for them, and david perdue, they cant say well be a check on joe biden because theyre not allowed to say per President Trumps rules that joe biden is the President Elect and the longer they continue this, i think the more difficult its going to be for them to get out of it. And joe, big picture here too. Were talking about what the president s going to do perhaps in 2024. I mean, he is for all of these people who are so loyal to him while they were looking ahead to their own careers in the future, their ambitions are stalled for as long as he wants to keep a hold on the party unless theyre willing to step up and do something about it now. Which, you know, im not sure well see that. Yeah. I dont know that were going to see that and reverend al, the scripture that applies here is when were talking about Mitch Mcconnell worried about two senate seats, which hes probably going to win anyway, but what good does it profit a man to gain the world if he loses his own soul . What good does it profit Mitch Mcconnell to pick up two Safe Republican Senate seats if he loses democracy in the process. There is no justifying this for Mitch Mcconnell to sit back while a coup is unfolding in front of him. When the president of the United States is calling in legislators, legislative leaders to the white house, saying you want you to discount the millions and millions of votes in your state. The president saying were going to overturn this election. Were going to get separate electors and doing it in the light of day and were going to do it because Mitch Mcconnell and 80 of the republicans in the senate arent saying anything about a coup against a man who has 80 million americans who voted for him. You went to the right scripture because were really talking about not the soul of Mitch Mcconnell, but the soul of the country. In this country, its to stand for democracy and this country is to stand for the right to vote and the right for its citizenry to decide who will govern them. I think the governor of maryland said it right, we used to teach people voting and supervise voting Around The World. The very soul of what this country stands for, what we taught as children to be is whats at stake. This is not an election in georgia or even an election on november 3rd nationwide. This is about do we stand for elections and what the results of the elections are and what they stand for. And for people to have to reluctantly and belatedly come in to embrace what the country is supposed to stand for, they will pay for it in the long run i think because a lot of people who are not will not forget them saying youre confused about the kind of country were supposed to be, then you ought not be part of the leadership of the country. And, you know, i warned republicans for five years, that this guy is not conservative. I said it repeatedly. I said he hated republicans, he hated conservatives, he wasnt conservative, that he was going to spend this country into debt. We had the biggest deficits ever under donald trump and this Republican Party. We have had the Biggest National debt ever under donald trump and this Republican Party. We have had the biggest Pork Barrelled Spending budgets every single year under donald trump and this Republican Party. We have had a president whos tried to undermine all the good things that republicans and democrats alike have done as it pertains to nato, as it pertains to spreading democracy across europe. Protecting democratic countries. And here we have a president thats radical. He spends radically. He has he has radical Foreign Policy designs. He has radical Foreign Policy that embraces dictators and tyrants. And now you look at what hes doing here in the United States constitutionally all of my friends that walked around congress with constitutions in their pockets and yet remain silent today. This is the same president the last weeks of the campaign was pushing was pressuring his Attorney General to arrest his opponent in the last two weeks of the campaign. Their constitution stayed in their pockets safely. They didnt talk about how undemocratic that was. What a breach of constitutional norms that was, how that was a dictators move that was. They didnt say a word. When the president when he refused when he refused to even guarantee a peaceful transition, they said nothing. Those little constitutions stayed in their pockets and now hes trying to steal an election, something that a few republican senators are saying, something that a few formerly conservative news outlets are saying, theyre remaining silent. Jonathan lemire, we hear that Mitch Mcconnell will speak out when he feels its safe to speak out, hey, mitch, we have a coup going on, what you thinking . When is he going to Start Talking . If he doesnt, its not going to change history because guess what . Joe bidens going to be the next president of the United States on January The 20th at 12 00 noon and mitch knows that. All hes doing is undermining americans faith in the democratic process. And how long is he willing to do that, jonathan . How long are republicans on the hill willing to do that . How long are the president s apologists willing to do that . Its an extraordinarily dangerous situation, joe, and to this point, Senate Majority leader mcconnell shows no inclination to move. I think as kasie outlined, the goal here is georgia. He Still Believes this is the right way to motivate republicans in the state to keep on to keep the majority in the senate which is what mcconnell prizes most of all. Maintaining power and control over that body. There may be a calculation he makes at some point that trump is doing more harm than good. Perhaps it is when the Electoral College meets and certifies everything and thats a few weeks away and a lot of bad things can happen between now and then, particularly with the pandemic. There are some who are concerned about the democracy should be gratified at least to this point the coup is not really working. I was there at the white house on friday, when the president invited these michigan republicans there to discuss perhaps not certifying the vote. Those michigan legislators put out a statement that said there was nothing they saw that would lead to that measure. That the vote would change. We saw a Federal Judge in pennsylvania utterly eviscerate the legal arguments there, another loss in a state they have tried to appeal, contest and flip. And last night we saw a civil war erupt, as Sydney Powell who is Michael Flynns attorney, her assessment that the voter fraud was part of the global conspiracy that included hugo chavez playing very, very long game was too much even for them and she was sort of let go. It was made clear she was not part of the president s legal team although she stood next to Rudy Giuliani for two hours during his infamous sweaty and Hair Dye Streaked News Conference just a few days ago. But the president himself, he is not willing to give this up just yet. He stayed out of sight again over the weekend, playing golf. We briefly saw him friday at an event on Prescription Drugs but he refused to take any sort of questions and yet, he continues, day after day, to float unfounded, baseless and false Conspiracy Theories about the election. Usually the president is front and center on the Conspiracy Theories or ideas about hydroxychloroquine or putting bleach hes the one who puts his face on it. We havent seen his face at all. He doesnt want a lot to do with this, although its being done for him and so let me ask this question. You know, usually when youre too close to a situation, maybe you cant see as well. What in the world would Mitch Mcconnell and others must be thinking looking at this again, i cant say what it is, but this clown show. Well call it that. Do they really thats where they want to align with history . Its a terrible miscalculation on Mitch Mcconnells part . Whats the calculation . I want to be an idiot . If Mitch Mcconnell thinks his legacy is going to be anything more than what hes doing during this, the most radical of president ial transitions, that for the first time in the history of this great Constitutional Republic, he stood by and was Donald Trumps wing man as donald trump tried to pull off a coup against a democratically elected president. If mitch thinks, oh, i have three judges in, no. Thats not going to be Mitch Mcconnells legacy. His legacy is going to be that he stayed silent and he acquiesced and he was working quietly with donald trump while donald trump was trying to pull off a coup against a democratically elected president who got 80 million votes, more than any other president , president ial candidate in the history of this great republic. But heres what doesnt make any sense, kasie. And we have been trying to explain this slowly so mitch could figure this out, slowly. Maybe i need to speak in russian for mitch so hell understand this. But lets walk through this for a second. Weve got two races in georgia. A georgia gop civil war started several weeks ago where people started attacking the republican Secretary Of State. Now the attacks have moved to the republican governor there. To be honest with you, one of the biggest sycophants the president this president has had in any Governors Office and then this past week at the end of the week suddenly the Conspiracy Theories, those lies that the president s legal team started spitting out, they started focusing on Kelly Loeffler, one of the two republicans running there and yes, Sidney Powell who was on the republicans who was on the president s legal team up until the time she said this, actually has now started the Conspiracy Theory that Kelly Loeffler stole her seat from doug collins. But for this hugo chavez conspiracy it would be collins running for that second seat in the runoff and not Kelly Loeffler. I mean, this is a gang that cant shoot straight and quite a few selfinflicted wounds with an election a month away. I just cant believe that Mitch Mcconnell wants this chaos to continue. I dont think he does, joe, but the fundamental reality is theyre still scared of donald trump. They have been afraid of him and the power that he has over his base of supporters for the entirety of his term in office, basically. There have been a handful of them who have stepped up and tried to oppose this president. Jeff flake, bob corker, a few others im forgetting in this very moment, but none of them are in elected office anymore because they didnt have any path to it. Now, Mitch Mcconnell knows probably better than anyone how to win a general election. Thats why he backed Kelly Loeffler over doug collins from the very start. But, you know, i think the question is i dont know how long it holds considering what the party is doing here in the face of donald trump. I mean, yes, its true that donald trump turned out a lot of republican voters. They were surprised how well they did on Election Night and they attribute it to donald trump, but the reality is that donald trump lost to joe biden and if republicans want to control the senate in the long run they need to win people who are so turned off by donald trump that they voted for joe biden even if they voted for republicans before. I dont know when the dam breaks. I have been asked this question here on this program over and over and over again for four years on all of these different issues and this this is the be all and end all, right . This is the end of the road here and if this you still keep going with this, i mean, i dont know how you come back from Something Like this. Its very, very hard to see and i think i have said before i had a lot of conversations before this with republicans who privately said at the end of the day, if he loses we are not going to we are not going to let the ship go Down In Flames. The ship being the Republican Party and all of the history that is behind it. All of the people that came before that built what it became. We are not going to let the ship go Down In Flames with this guy, with donald trump. But thats what were watching right now and, you know, i dont know. The Electoral College deadline is an important one to watch. The Georgia Election is one to watch. If donald trump refuses to leave the white house, im not sure anyone is reporting thats as far as hell take this, but what are they going to do if that happens . I dont know. Because their track record would suggest theyre not going to do anything. Well, i mean, they are letting the ship go down. Theyre on it, with donald trump. Not only actively, actually. Not only the Republican Party, but also the conservative movement. You can start reading from edmond burke through russell kirk, through william f. Buckley, listen to the words, the speeches of ronald reagan, margaret thatcher, you will see nothing that justifies the radicalism. I mean, this is this is what we always accused radicals on the left of wanting to do. Of overthrowing the government. I mean, this is this is i mean, i couldnt even imagine marxists trying to pull this off in america. But Donald Trumps Republican Party is. Mika, theyre trying to conduct a coup and in the state of georgia, where theres now a civil war, news break, donald trump lost the state of florida to joe biden. Im sorry, the state of georgia, he lost the state of georgia to joe biden and things are only going to get worse the longer this moves forward. Well, i mean, i dont know if it matters to the republicans at all, but the back drop to this is very bad short term use on the coronavirus and the numbers surging all over the place and the president tweeting all weekend long about himself and the election they want to steal. They dont really care about the people dying. Because if they did, they would let joe biden start working the transition so they can gut the vaccines ready and make up a plan to distribute vaccines from across across the country to 300 Million People, to get the economy started again. To get the economy start again but they dont care. This is all about donald trump. People calling in to rush limbaugh, theyre ready to die for donald trump. Is this jonestown . They are dieing. Hundreds of thousands of people already have died because of donald trump and its only going to get worse. Yeah. If this doesnt stop, and if we dont allow the President Elect to start preparing as Record Number of cases continue to skyrocket up, mika, and way too Many Americans are dying every day. When the vaccine comes theres going to be distribution issues that need to be dealt with on a very, very holistic, across the board level, who gets it first and how do we get it to everybody and how doesette paid for. By the way, Breaking News on the vaccine front. The University Of Oxford and astrazeneca found that its vaccine is 70 effective but could reach Protection Levels of 90 by tweaking the dosage. When volunteers were administered two high doses, the protection was 62 . But when given one low dose followed by one high dose, the protection reached 90 . Its not clear why theres such a disparity but theyre getting somewhere. While the pfizer and moderna vaccines show 95 effectiveness, the oxford and astrazeneca dose is cheaper and it can be stored at fridge temperatures, unlike the other two that need to be stored at much colder temperatures. Astrazeneca is part of the global Coe Vax Initiative to make sure that the doses go to the highest need areas and well bring in our medical experts on this in a moment. This is why people are so hungry for positive news on the vaccine. The u. S. Surpassed 12 million cases of covid on saturday and it followed two days of record highs that drove the United States to a million new cases in the last week. On thursday, the cdc recommended against traveling and gathering for thanksgiving. But the tsa says it processed more than 2 million passengers on friday and saturday. The highest twoday total since mid march. Heres the headline on the front page of this mornings washington post. Testing negative to travel home. About the Safety Precautions students are taking to protect their families and when it comes to hospitalizations, dr. Anthony fauci said yesterday that a substantial portion of those in the hospital are middle aged adults between 40 and 59 years old. A lot to get to with our experts. Joining us is dr. Vin gupta, an msnbc news contributor. And also with us, dr. Dave campbell. I think we start with the bad news that were seeing especially as were heading into thanksgiving weekend, i mean, dr. Gupta, also ill get to dr. Dave on this, but a lot of kids are coming home for the holidays. Some of them are planning to stay home probably through the bulk of the holidays, but that travel is taking a huge uptick. Can that impact even more cases happening . Good morning, mika. Absolutely. If youre a College Student, im going to get straight to advice here. If youre a College Student shelter in place for at least seven days once you arrive and youre with your loved ones, at least seven days. Testing is constrained across the country right now, so you cant test your way out of or into safety here. You have to mask up when youre home, try to quarantine for that sevenday window and try to get that pcr test through a drivethru at that point so you can give yourself and your family relief. For those traveling for only a few days for thanksgiving, cancel your plans. Theres been a lot of Shades Of Gray here, a lot of uncertainty in covid, but cancel your plans. I cant tell how many calls i received i have from friends of friends with their friends in the icu, i heard in texas theyre rationing the plasma. Critical care docs, theyre theyre this is the big issue. We are in a five alarm fire. You should not be traveling. Theres time to cancel your plans. There is no off ramp here. There is no icu bed thats going to be staffed here reliably throughout the country. This is reality right now. This is not an existential reality. Cancel your plans if you do not need to travel somewhere. So dr. Dave, i want to emphasize the same advice because if youre having a group of 12 or more, whether or not theyre traveling or not, thats 12 or more people who made a number of decisions based on their own personal safety. In terms of advice for the holiday, i mean, a lot of people dont have space to quarantine for five to seven days. Is it worth making the trip . No. Dr. Gupta nailed it and whats important to remember is this is a numbers game. The more people youre around, the closer you are to them, the more likely one of them will spread the virus to others. And theres no magical cure, we know that from the information you spoke about earlier with prevention and Treatment Options that are coming every day. But you have to prevent the disease in the first place and what we have available today to do that and through the thanksgiving holiday to do that is to limit the spread of this virus from one person to another. And what a horrible legacy of a thanksgiving if you gather, whether youre even within your immediate family, and somebody gets sick a few days or a week or two later and you can clearly look back and see that all you needed to do was either cancel the vacation, cancel the thanksgiving or limit the number of people, do it outside and wear your mask. I think of all the information and advice we keep hearing over and other again, wearing a face mask while inside your own home around anybody else still makes sense and it will continue to make sense all the way through the spring, through the summer as we see the number of people presumably getting vaccinated increase and as we see the number of therapeutics increase for Monoclonal Antibodies, to whatever comes down the road next. For the short term, dr. Gupta nailed it. Cancel, cancel, cancel. If you cannot, limit, limit, little. Dr. Gupta, theres a lot of vaccine news out there, three different potentials that are coming down the road and coming fairly quickly relatively. How do we parse through them . Which one do we bank on . Is there any one that youre most hopeful and do we have a process in place to be able to get the vaccine to everyone who needs it . Well, ill start, mika, on your last question first which is thats the importance of the transition. Ows, operation warp speed, happen working with a lot of vaccine distributors. If its pfizer you need negative 120 degrees fahrenheit, cold supply vehicles to get it distributed effectively and quickly and thats a logistic feat. Im really encouraged by pfizer and really encouraged by moderna. Astrazeneca news is a little unclear per your introduction earlier. Im excited about Johnson Johnsons candidate vaccine. Youre going to see a flood of Vaccine Candidates get Emergency Use Authorization i suspect by the turn of the calendar year. Johnson johnson is a one shot vaccine, also it doesnt require any type of chilling or cold chain. So the easier the administration we can get with vaccines that are equally effective we hope, thats going to be great and were tired of hearing this and were tired of hearing Public Health experts say dont do this, dont do that. Know theres immediate term relief frankly, next summer will look a lot different we hope than 2020. That is certainly light at the end of the tunnel that we can actually envision. Dr. Dave, sort of parse us through the vaccines and also there are treatments that are becoming increasingly effective. Yeah. The treatments are exciting, but the Vaccination Opportunities are even more so. If we can look to preventing the disease in the first place thats ultimately what we all hope for. The treatments that have become available now with Monoclonal Antibodies and others are exciting but you have to be already sick. The one that just came out, the regeneron Monoclonal Antibody program is a drug that is given to you before you go in the hospital to try to limit or minimize your risk of going to the hospital or becoming more sick. And thats great because there are certainly going to be millions of people who are candidates for such treatment. So if we look broadly and realize we have great opportunities coming up for prevention, with vaccines and with social distancing and looking at Treatment Options that are opening up with Monoclonal Antibodies and other therapeutics and drugs that we have seen, it should give americans hope if they weather the storm through thanksgiving or the end of the year that come this spring, if you can survive and you can keep your Family Members surviving, that theres hope that all of that effort, all of that lost family time that were looking at will have been worth it, mika. All right. Drs. Dave campbell and vin gupta, thank you. Very stark, stern warning for thanksgiving travel. Thank you so much. Of course here we are in the fall. This is a fall if you go back six months, maybe four months this is when you had Anthony Fauci Warning Americans that it was going to be worse in the fall than it was in the spring. I told you about my conversation where ari emanuel got me on the phone with zeke emanuel who said well have a very bad spring. Might lighten up in the summer which it didnt, but the fall is going to be even worse. And here we are. So Jonathan Lemire, what is joe biden doing versus the president regarding this virus . Well, joe, lets start with the president who has done very little to this point as we have been discussing on this week for months now. Hes largely abandoned his day job. Hes taken not not attended a Coronavirus Task force meeting in months and has basically stopped engaging in any meetings whatsoever. The task force did have the first public briefing last week at the end of last week, the first one since july. And theyre certainly there were warnings about travel, about how bad the situation was right now across the country but there was not an explicit warning to not for americans to stay home at thanksgiving. Certainly they are focused on the good news as they often are, taking the optimistic spin from the white house about the vaccines. They have been saying of course we have been turning the corner for weeks now which is simply not the case. But the vaccines are still a few months away. The President Elect, joe biden, has taken a much more somber and serious approach to this. Hes assembling the team. Were getting cabinet announcements any day, but his first focus was his own Coronavirus Task force made up of Public Health experts and they are watching with us, communicating directly with the vaccine companies. Pfizer, johnson johnson, others. Theyre trying to learn as much as they can about the distribution process, about what is coming next. But they are handcuffed here because the Trump Administration has not signed off on this transition, the biden team has not been able to be fully read in. They have not been able to fully integrate with the process and that is one of the increasing worry. They can see the numbers just like we can. They can see this is a virus thats raging Out Of Control throughout this country particularly in states in the midwest and upper midwest, places like north dakota, south dakota, iowa, which are running out of hospital beds. It is a bleak and dire situation. And this is why more than any other, we know joe biden is a veteran washington hand, hes assembling a team of veterans. He feels like there are other parts of the Administration Even if hes off to the slow start because of the delayed transition, he can make up that ground but the concern is the pandemic and every day that is delayed more american lives are lost. To some of the other stories making headlines this morning, and theres a lot, this first one connects to what we have been discussing as World Leaders gather at the g20 summit focusing on the coronavirus pandemic, President Trump went golfing instead. On saturday, leaders from germany, south korea, france and others were scheduled to participate in the event but during a meeting on the pandemic, President Trump had rolled up to the golf course, the g20 summit was reportedly on his schedule starting from 8 00 in the morning with no end time listed. Despite the u. S. Leading the world in cases and deaths, no american was scheduled to speak during the global summit saturdays session on covid19. So here he does not want to do his job. Here we have america responsible for one out of every five deaths. Were number one. On the planet. We have 4. 5 of the population, compare us to canada, its just an embarrassment. Its a national embarrassment. And we have a president who knew about this all along, told bob woodward all along he knew this was a killer virus and hes been lying through his teeth to the American People for nine months. It also shows the complete disregard for american and human lives. For this president in the middle of this global meeting, that that particular day was going to focus on covid19 and we are at over a quarter of a Million Deaths, and he not be there to engage it when it was on his schedule, he decides to go out and play golf. Imagine if barack obama had done that, what donald trump and Mitch Mcconnell would have been saying. Just imagine if that had been barack obama doing golfing while the world was meeting on a pandemic that a quarter of a million of americans have died. And that we possibly are on the brink of seeing if some vaccines are going to work, and they wont rise to the devastation that were facing or the hope that may be within our grasp. He played golf. He fiddled while we are dying. Geez. All right. There are also developments this morning on joe bidens expected Cabinet Picks. Veteran diplomat and long time Foreign Policy adviser, Antony Blinken is the top pick, and a Transition Official said blinken is most likely going to be named. Ron klain said that biden will announce the Cabinet Picks tomorrow and he served as Deputy National Security Council adviser from 2013 to 2015 during the Obama Administration and as deputy Secretary Of State from 2015 to 2017. Jonathan, you wrote about this yesterday. Certainly it gives you a look into joe bidens thinking that hes actually focusing on bringing people to the State Department and other agencies who actually know how to run those agencies. It would be like having somebody in a Hospital Perform Brain Surgery that knows how to perform brain surgery. A novel concept, joe, to be sure. What we saw four years ago from the trump transition is striking. Lets remember of course that the president we remember trump tower and his potential cabinet officials, the candidates walking through the lobby in front of the cameras, going up for sort of reality show style auditions and while certainly President Trump did end up with some serious Cabinet Members, like james mattis, a few others were disastrous and poorly qualified. Michael flynn of course as National Security adviser lasted less than a month. Joe biden is taking it seriously and he knows the world is watching right now and the pick at the State Department was the first one hes making expected to be announced tomorrow and he picked someone close to him, who the world knows is speaking for the president. Thats so important. Lets remember over the last four years at the State Department how whether it was Rex Tillerson or others, there was always a degree where tillerson would Say Something to the World Community and be undermined in a president ial tweet minutes later. The world didnt know what to expect. American diplomacy is supposed to speak with one voice and now joe biden believes that will happen here. And these are this is sending reassuring signals to allies throughout the world that america is back, ready to reengage in diplomacy, to reengage in the Paris Climate Accord which is among the first orders of business. I have been told by biden officials to expect a similarity methodical, careful rollout here with the President Elects other choices for the other Cabinet Members in the days ahead. Yeah. Kasie, we have heard an awful lot about whats going to happen if the republicans win both seats in georgia in the Special Elections. Joe bidens going to have to make more moderate selections. Even if that happens, and i suspect it will likely happen that republicans will pick up both of those seats, you know, Something Like Antony Blinken is going to get through because thats the sort of main stream pick we have been hearing from a lot of republicans that they want. But lets go worst Case Scenario for republicans. Lets say democrats pick up both of those seats and they control the senate, its not like joe manchins going anywhere. Not like mark kelly is going to allow any leftwing selections to get through. Its not like hickenlooper is going to allow any leftwing selections to get through. Were going to have mainstream, moderate selections regardless of what happens in georgia, arent we . Well, joe, i also think that if you have been paying attention to what joe biden himself has been saying and the way he has conducted himself throughout the entirety of his public life hes picking people hes comfortable with. I dont think that that changes regardless, really, of who controls the senate. I think thats part of why its easy to make the decisions up front, because biden is picking people hes personally comfortable with and for the most part that are going to fall into how the group of moderates would define the mainstream. Youre right. No matter who controls the senate, the most important senators are going to be those who are most moderate in their own party. Mitt romney, lisa murkowski, susan collins, then on the democratic side, joe manchin. Some of these newly elected democrats from seats that were previously held by republicans. Hickenlooper, mark kelly who by the way got more votes than joe biden did in the state of arizona, which, you know, tells you a little bit about what their motivations are going to be. I think that the Big Question Mark here in the event that, you know if democrats control the senate, they win both of those seats, the challenge is going to be the Progressive Left is going to put a lot of pressure on Chuck Schumer and a lot of pressure on the biden team to give them something and thats going to create tension inside the Democratic Party. The challenge if republicans win both of estates, there are certainly republicans inside Mitch Mcconnells conference who are willing to give biden his nominees if they are as you say in the mainstream. But we dont know how mcconnell is going to hand it overall and he controls what goes to the floor and at what speed and he has shown a willingness to do things i dont think a lot of people expected that have been outside the norms of the way the senate has operated. Now of course im going to get an email from a mcconnell aide witness see get off the air and say, harry reid did it first, democrats did it first, not untrue. That doesnt mean well keep going down that road here. I think thats part of this conversation is so critically important and if they have talked, theyre certainly not talking about it in public. And regardless of who gets elected in georgia, you brought up some names. Lets just look at this name. You talk about the center of the United States senate, thats going to have the ability to move that institution one way or the other. Theyre all mainstream. Theyre all what a lot of people in washington would call moderate. Mitt romney, murkowski, collins, mark kelly, governor hickenlooper. You have six people who have extraordinary sway regardless of whether republicans are controlling the senate which is most likely or democrats. It is going to make things very interesting and if those six Stay Together theyll have a lot of power, arent they . I think they possibly could, joe, yeah. And i think this is really the big question for those of us who have covered congress for a long time. I mean, i remember standing outside of im sure that this was true when you were in congress as well. I remember standing outside of meetings that were critically important that included both democrats and republicans. They werent just leadership meetings. They were Rank And File senators, it was a gang of six or a gang of eight. They were working on big issues. They were trying to solve big problems and we have really lost that in the last you know, five to seven years. That has really gone by the wayside and the partisanship has really infested particularly the senate. I mean, the house has always of course had its fiery moments and partisan nature but the senate has always been viewed as this place that was supposed to be a little bit bigger, a little bit better than the rest of us. They were supposed to get together to solve the big problems and its not been true lately. And so this group of senators really will have an opportunity to say no, were going to push reset. Were going to change how we do business here. Well make the chamber relevant, important, critical again in how we govern this country. Thats an optimistic way to look at it. The last four years have been rough on those tendencies of mine because frankly, you know, i think the most cynical interpretation has always been the one thats actually played out. So well see, but i think they have a chance. I totally agree. Kasie hunt, thank you very much for being on this morning. Coming up, our next guest says President Trump and his lawyers are engaged in a spectacle that would be funny if it wasnt so dangerous and if the stakes were so high. Mark leibovich joins us. And its almost here. Joes new book on President Truman is out tomorrow. We have some great historians and writers lined up to talk about it. Were back in just a moment. As a Technical Director at 3m, im committed to making a difference in peoples lives. 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Ythey customize yours lcar insurance. So you only pay for what you need. Wow. That will save me lots of money. This games boring. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Oh, i will rescue you with the Ninja Foodito intelligesmart xl grill. Ing just pick your protein, select your doneness, and let the grill monitor your food. It also turns into an air fryer. Bring outdoor grilling flavors indoors with the grill that grills for you. children laughing music swells music fades exhales experience the power of sanctuary at the lincoln wish list sales event. Sign and drive off in a new lincoln with zero down, zero due at signing, and a complimentary first months payment. Okay. So a few minutes before the top of the hour and as Monthty Python would say, something completely different now. A Florida Man Jumping into the water to wrestle an alligator to save his puppy. This is what we doing here on morning joe, actually, its not. But look at this. Look at this guy. Joe, cigar in mouth. Richard wilbanks of florida was apparently sitting outside enjoying the sun when he heard his puppy cry out and saw an alligator dragging it into the water. Without thinking, he jumped into the water and wrestled the gator to free gunner, his 3monthold cavalier king charles. Wilbanks told our nbc ft. Myers affiliate it took place so fast. The incident happened in late october. But the footage wasnt discovered until the cameras memory card was collected. Were told that gunner is recovering from a Puncture Wound to the belly and wilbanks has a few cuts on his hand. See, joe, you would do Something Like this. This is what happens. If it happened to hopson. Its what you do. Sometimes we just go in there for the sport of it all. Little puppy. You get bored on a saturday afternoon, your kids are playing fortnite, you go i love that the cigar is in his mouth and he doesnt drop it. Florida man. Its what you do. This piece of news is for you. The california Fast Food Chain in and out opened the first ever location in colorado and it caused a frenzy. I hope it was socially distanced. Traffic in aurora and Colorado Springs was intense as coloradans flocked to get their first taste of in and out burgers in their state. In Colorado Springs, the time lance video posted to twitter shows a small section of the drivethru line with the first car waiting since tuesday. That makes sense. I dont get it. It makes sense. In aurora, traffic was just as bad if not worse. The Aurora Police department was tweeting updates throughout the day including quote, a lot of people have asked how long was the line . Its hard to estimate. What we know is that it wrapped around the mall twice and there was some nearby backups. The wait is now 14 hours. Come on, people. Jonathan lemire, that seems like a logical way to spend your weekend, doesnt it . Thats where i do most weekends, certainly any time out west, i make a stop at in and out burger. This is a direct message to President Elect biden lets go to california a lot, sir. Im curious to get your take. Five guys, shake shack, whataburger im a whataburger guy. In and out though, i love in and out as well. Im going to put im going to give a bronze to both shake shack and five guys. But no, it all i mean, of course you didnt put crystal in there i can understand why because thats the reigning champ year in and year out. You have to have your crystal burger, but whataburger, im just im not sure why whataburger and in and out arent all over america. I think this country would be moving in a much better direction. All right. Enough of this. Mika i dont want to hear it. Have you ever had an in and out burger . A whataburger . I dont think so. Crystal burger . I think you made me eat one. Jonathan lemire is here and Reverend Al Sharpton are still with us and now an msnbc and nbc political analyst, Claire Mccaskill is with us. Contributor to the bulwark, tim miller. He served as spokesman for the Republican National committee. U. S. National editor at the Financial Times, ed luce is with us and from the New York Times, Mark Leibovich is joining us this morning. Tim, i want to start with you, because you know it was not so long ago that we all were supporting candidates like jeb bush. I made clear in 16 i was a jeb guy and you worked for jeb. But it is so bizarre. Just four, five five years later well see because we saw what was coming, but five years later to see our party actually trying to pull off what looks like an awful lot like an Eastern European coup, to put a guy in place who is right now losing the election by 6 million votes and, you know, biden has over 300 electoral votes. Tell me what goes through your mind and how did this happen so quickly to our party . Well, as of yesterday, joe, i wrote the bulwark, i dont think its our party anymore, im out. I thought this was something worth fighting over. I supported a primary President Trump this time and three guys jumped into that but there was no supporter from the established republican circles for that. Its clear now as he pedals these insane conspiracies, youre right, Eastern European, i like to call it dumbbelarus right now and everybody is silent except mitt romney. Literally all of them. Adam kinzinger diversities a message and ben sasse. But theyre all silent. The Michigan State house member who went to visit the president , he is the chairman of the Republican State Legislative Committee and he went to visit the president to discuss this possible kind of ridiculous low energy in trumps terms coup, and then spoke afterwards and said it was possible depending on what happens with this Sidney Powell nonsense review that the State Legislatures could try to overturn this. The chair of the republican legislative committee. Mitch mcconnell is silent. Kevin mccarthy is sort of pretending to go along with this, you know, Playing Footsy With Trump and the entire cabinet is going along with this. Robert obrien who is supposedly a normal guy, he said in the philippines maybe donald trump will be the president next term. This is madness. The reality is you cannot look at this, you not look at the Republican Partys silence and complicity if youre somebody like me and says this is salvageable. This is kind of where we stand right now, and im out. Tim, i heard somebody describe the Republican Party this past weekend as a post Democratic Party. Post democracy party. Which is something that, you know, you and i we spent the entire adult lives fighting for what we believed in and we had a lot of crazy attacks thrown at us for being republicans. I mean, again, you know, every four years whoever we nominated somebody called them a fascist or a nazi. But in this case, if the label sticks, i mean, theyve got to wear it. They certainly look right now like a post democracy party. Yeah. It hurts when the other sides insults about you come true, doesnt it, joe . Its something that it does. Its something i have had to deal with, you know . I thought it was bs for a while, but, no, turns out that a lot of them were right. Look, this is what i wrote about yesterday. What i have decided is that, you know, that i needed to reprioritize a bunch of issues that i didnt think was up for debate. Believing in free and fair elections, believing that no matter what your race or religion is youre welcome in this country. I thought those were things that both parties believed. It was something that both nominees president ial nominees for each party believed up until 2016 and sadly it turns out that my Erstwhile Party is on the wrong side of the fundamental things that i thought we all agreed on. Executive editor for the bulwark, when do we draw a line in the sand . And in the piece, he poses this thought exercise. Imagine we went back a year and i told you that donald trump would refuse to concede his loss to the 2020 election. Trump would insist that despite by losing the election by nearly 7 million votes he won easily and his legal team and the official arm of the Republican Party would claim he won by a landslide. Trump would refuse to allow the federal government to begin the transition process. Various Trump Officials would publicly say they were planning for a second term. Trumps stated strategy would be to get states with republican legislatures to refuse to certify the results and appoint their own slates of electors to vote for him in the Electoral College. Trump would personally lobby republican officials to enact this plan, including summoning them to meet with him in the white house. Tim pointed out that every single republican senator last year would have said that it was hysterical to suggest that this would happen. And that they would oppose such actions. Ed luce, perhaps this is why you were warning in your latest piece in the Financial Times that americans should not exhale yet. No, they shouldnt. Look, i think Donald Trumps losing this slowly and at an extremely embarrassing, undignified manner. Hes bringing his party down with him, but the results are going to be certified. The danger i think is once they are certified, possibly as early as today in a couple of states, maybe in michigan, maybe not. Well have to wait and see. The danger is that there are other things that he can do. He has in recent weeks since Firing Mark Esper as acting Secretary Of Defense parachuted people into key posts in the pentagon and at the director of National Intelligence who are not people in any Parallel Universe who would be given jobs of any where near that kind of authority. Theres a guy called mcgregor hes put in the pentagon whos essentially a neonazi. There are several others, ezra cohen, Who Have Extreme far right maga views, and who are essentially acolytes of Stephen Miller in the white house, and i dont think highly of him, is a very smart operator. He knows how to get the president riled up. How to sign things, executive orders. And so i dont think the time to exhale comes around until january 20th. Theres all sorts of shenanigans from President Trump and these young 30 something people that hes parachuting in to very powerful positions. All right. Well, this is something a prominent republican senator said last september, quote, that would be the biggest achievement that any adversary has ever scored against a Senate Election cycle is to bring us to the point where people honestly believe half the country believes that the person who is going to be sworn in was not validated and legitimately elected. Its a grave threat to our republic and its, you know, the way i tell people is think about the 2000 election, but on steroids. But 50 times worse than that breaking out in multiple places and it wont be about hanging chads. It will be about whether someone was actually cheating on purpose. That was senator marco rubio speaking about the damage that could be caused by foreign election interference. Former aide to president Obama Tommy Vietor tweeted that. Now that donald trump is doing that damage himself, marco is silent. Claire, why is this so hard . Marco rubio said this. Why cant he stand by his words even especially because its standing on the right side of history and in protection of our democracy . I kind of think that Mitch Mcconnell is whispering in all of their ears and saying, hold on, hold on. Whispering what . Heres what hes whispering. We have to hold the senate, this is all about georgia. Heres what theyre afraid of. This is a president thats pulled the rug out from underneath the republican senators, with some regularity. Without any warning hed do a 180 on a policy or say he supported something and hed go out and work for it and then hed say, never mind. What theyre worried about, i believe, is trump will say forget about the republicans in the senate and send a base to georgia they dont need to turn out in georgia. It is amazing to mow how quiet trump has been about georgia. I think that theres a reason for that. I think hes holding leverage over those guys, over control of the senate in the Special Election in georgia. I think if that election wasnt coming up, i think you would see a lot more courage on behalf of the Republican Leadership in the senate and frankly the Rank And File republicans. But right now, its all about this prize that is going to be really determinative about what the next four years look like. In a scathing opinion that left no room for ambiguity, a pennsylvania Federal Judge on saturday dismissed the trump campaigns lawsuit to stop certification of the states vote. District judge matthew bran all but shut the door, dismissing the suit with prejudice he writes, one might expect when seeking a startling outcome, a plaintiff would come formidably armed with factual proof of rampant corruption. That has not happened. Instead, this court has been presented with strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations in the operative complaint and unsupported by evidence. In the United States of america, this cannot justify the disenfranchisement of the single voter. Let alone all of the voters of its sixth most populated state. Our people, laws and institutions demand more. Brand found that the attorneys lacked coherent arguments and their clients lacked standing. He also found that voters suing because they were unable to cure a bad ballot were asking for the wrong remedy. Rather than requesting that their votes be counted, they seek to discredit scores of other votes but only for one race. This is simply not how the constitution works. Though the judge was an obama nominee, he served as pennsylvanias region Republican Party chairman before appointment to the bench, according to the wall street journal. Trump spent the weekend to look for new approaches to reverse the outcome. At present, 24 of 36 cases in six states have been denied, dismissed or withdrawn. You know, the only my only question what a joke. About the pennsylvania case why they didnt sanction the attorneys and for people wondering why Rudy Giuliani and others are saying the bizarre things, hatching Conspiracy Theories, but wont go into court and allege widespread voter fraud its because you dont do in front of the Federal Judges if you cant prove it and youll be sanctioned and bad things will happen to you legally. I looked at the case, i looked at the opinion. I dont know anybody in northwest florida, at least in front of the Federal Judges i went before when i was a Practicing Lawyer there, would have argued that in front of them. Because all of the Federal Judges i ever argued in front of them, all of the Federal Judges i knew or my firms argued in front of them, would have sanctioned the attorneys for bringing in such ridiculous claims. Hey, Mark Leibovich, over the weekend you actually wrote in the New York Times about the rudy show and my god, talk about setting a precedent for lowering the bar. Every day rudy takes that bar a bit lower. Yeah. I mean, obviously donald trump with his legal strategy here such as it is is not tired of losing. Whats amazing he hasnt lost just one election which tomorrow its going to be three weeks ago. Theres been this drum beat of legal embarrassments that has been a companion to what his electoral defeat has looked like. And whats striking, he doesnt seem to care about the serial legal humiliations playing out in michigan, in georgia, in any number of states that were close. So i mean, you have this i mean, Rudy Giuliani has been at the center of some of the more farcical moments or episodes of the Trump Administration, at the center of all this. And now you have these i guess theres a lot of drama inside the legal team about, you know, Sidney Powell possibly being sort of distanced or sort of set aside from the trump team to, you know, whatever rudys role, to whatever the president is doing to direct this or maybe move away from it ultimately. But no, i dont think anyone who was watching this seriously thinks theres any kind of legal strategy or coherent legal strategy that can be effective either, you know, in the small sense or certainly on a national sense. Well, of course, Sidney Powell i think got booted when mitch probably reached out and told the president your legal team is now saying that Kelly Loeffler was selected in a Conspiracy Theory. Hugo chavez decided very much dead hugo chavez decided or how ever the Conspiracy Theory runs he wanted loeffler running instead of collins. Talk about the gang that cant shoot straight, mark. They are actually attacking georgia, people the republicans that are running in georgias Special Elections. Of having brian kemp rig the elections for the republicans that are going to be on the ballot in december. I thought that was an interesting line of demarcation here, sort of a legal strategy bled over into what the political real on the ground political consideration is. You do sort of wonder did Mitch Mcconnell step in at this point because its one thing for the president to embarrass himself or the president s lawyers to embarrass themselves but when you move Kelly Loeffler and maybe david perdue by extension into this conversation, that actually hurts the bottom line for the Republican Party certainly in the senate. So i mean, there is this concern and i was talking to a couple of them over the weekend at some point the host eats the virus and the host in this case is donald trump and at what point does he care that hes harming the downballot republicans, loeffler and perdue. Look, if half the Republican Party in georgia or voters are feeling like its rigged anyway, if the president got viewed anyway, theyre not in any hurry to vote for the senate candidate, especially if they they themselves are complicit in this. By the way, the white house themselves and the president himself has been, you know, on the phone saying, you know, why arent they fighting harder for me and it does become this how high are you willing to jump to defend the president to the point there could be the absolute backlash against the Senate Candidates in georgia. Well, were seeing a lot of postmortems from the election where we have had several analysts who say that donald trump lost because he convinced enough of his supporters that voting by mail was not going to work. That it was illegal. That it was improper. And that probably made the difference between him winning and losing many of those states. You know, rev, we were talking on friday about the sad and precipitous fall of Rudy Giuliani over the past four or five years. You know, it was just four years ago that donald trump wanted Rudy Giuliani to be his Secretary Of State, but admitted that giuliani had already lost a couple of steps. Thats what donald trump and his team said. And that he wasnt up up to it. To being Secretary Of State or Attorney General because it was too hard of a job for him. Here we are four years later, this guy who donald trump was saying had lost a couple of steps four years ago is going around embarrassing himself. What a huge difference. You know known rudy for a very long time. Did even you think it would ever come to this . Absolutely not. I have been very critical of Rudy Giuliani when he was mayor, we went to jail for protesting him and really felt that he was everything that we were against. And then he was over time his positives were beat down in the polls. He had declined in stature and then 9 11 happened and he emerged as americas mayor. The worlds mayor. He was given a legacy that all of those of us that were critical was absolutely despising. None of us could have guessed that what would bring him down is himself. I could not have imagined the alleged report in the hotel room and then how can rudy put himself in that kind of situation, then you come with this Press Conference in front of the four seasons landscaping, rather than the hotel. Then now this infamous picture of Hair Dye Dripping down the side of his face while hes sweating, while hes giving the Conspiracy Theories. No ones worst critic could have predicted that Rudy Giuliani could do to himself and his legacy what many of us were trying to do when he was mayor. It almost almost, not quite, but almost makes us feel sorry for him. Yeah. Yeah, its painful. Painful to watch. Ed luce, i wonder how painful the view is from Around The World of a president trying to cheat at his election and as the g20 is taking place golfing during a Coronavirus Briefing and meeting and collaborative meeting with, you know, countries Around The World. The president s out golfing and yet, his country is burning in coronavirus cases far higher than any other country. And i think the world sees it much as america does which is sort of half comedy. I mean, this could be branded the four seasons total landscaping legal battle, which, you know, cant fail to make you laugh. Theres sort of a comic side to giuliani and powell and the others and powell of course is a Qanon Believer and represents mike flynn who himself has taken the digital soldier oath for qanon. So its fairly sort of bizarre and comical on one level and deeply chilling on another. I cant think of a serious democracy where the loser challenges the absolutely clear unequivocal results for two or three days, let alone for three weeks. We can expect another eight weeks, by dint of one action or another. I think this delegitimizes the biden campaign. Its been welcomed and tony blinken is a likely nomination to the Secretary Of State. These are highly respected people and theyre well known Around The World. There is deep knowledge of where the curve the Infection Curve is going in the United States. They have it bad in the United States, but because of severe National Lockdowns theyre bringing that curve down. In the United States, because we have a president whos golfing and bunking, you know, g20 covid sessions and paying no attention to his Coronavirus Task force, we have a trend line that can result in 3,000 deaths a day by mid december which is incredibly reckless, negligent and needless. This does not need to be happening. Then finally, of course, because theres this person, emily murphy, at the General Services administration, is refusing to certify is refusing to authorize the transition, we have a biden elect team that cannot get access to the Warp Speed Information to the cdc to plan the very, very urgent steps that will be necessary after hes inaugurated to distribute the vaccine, et cetera. So, you know, the world is looking on with concern and moments of hysterical, total landscaping chuckling as well. Dont forget that. Its hard its hard not to. Ed luce, we will of course be reading your piece in the Financial Times. Mark leibovich, thank you as well. Well be reading your latest reporting in the New York Times as well. Tim miller, why dont we end this segment how we began it talking about you leaving the Republican Party. So the question is, and i ask you this question because i have the same question about myself. Where do people like you and me go in the coming years . Do you see any trend lines for people who are small government conservatives, but as you said believe that we are bound together by a creed that we dont discriminate against americans based on the color of their skin or the god that they worship, we dont lock children in cages. We dont have registries for people who worship the god of abraham, but not our personal faith. Where are disaffected republicans like that going to go . Well, start with the good us in news which is that joe biden won the democratic nomination, so look, i think that a lot of us voted for joe biden this last time and i think that frankly if you look at the numbers in key states thats the reason joe bidens the president. If you look at the nominations hes making hes nominating center left folks that im sure we disagree with on tax rates and abortion and a few other issues but for the most part are in line with us when it comes to values. You know, the democrats are going through the crisis of their own though, and i think over the long term, joe, me and were like the perot voters were. We didnt have a home for a quarter century and then donald trump gave them a home in the Republican Party and kicked us out and i think we get to be speaking truth to the wilderness for a while and see how it shakes out. The Republican Party isnt coming back to us, and i think that, you know, while we have a temporary alliance with joe biden, you know, i dont think that the Democratic Party is moving in our direction either. No. I mean, i have asked i have had people ask, hey, would you go back to the Republican Party after Donald Trumps out of office. How could i go back to the party that remained silent while donald trump was pressuring his Attorney General to arrest his opponent or who claimed that article 2 gave him Unlimited Power or ran up the biggest deficits, the biggest debt, the biggest budgets in the history of this Constitutional Republic, tim. This guy was radical in every way. I mean, tim, i know you worked for candidates who were like me. We carried constitution sized books in our pocket and get out on the stump and read from it and these people have watched Donald Trump Shred Constitutional Norms and shred conservative norms and they have done nothing about it. Its just its still extraordinary. Yeah. To me, im still shocked. I also am. I think once you get in there, you maybe assumed that there was a way to work with him and the clearest choice of my lifetime between two candidates after we saw all of the things that you listed about donald trump and hes participating in the Insane Superspreader Tour and making this worse, people are dying because of this. You know, telling black women that they need to be to go back where they came from, putting a White Nationalist sympathizer like Stephen Miller in charge of the immigration, we can go on and on. None of these folks spoke out, so how could you go back to the party, how could you look back at the party and say, nikki haley, i want you to be president when you made the worst judgment call of my lifetime which is that you thought donald trump should be president for four more years. Im sorry, that betrays a lack of judgment im never able to forgive. All right. Tim miller, thank you very much for being on this morning and still ahead on morning joe, Will Trumpism survive President Trump . Our next guest thinks that well disintegrate once he leaves office. That conversation is next. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. children laughing music swells dog barking music fades exhales experience the power of sanctuary at the lincoln wish list sales event. Sign and drive off in a new lincoln with zero down, zero due at signing, and a complimentary first months payment. Its not about how far apart we are, its about how close we can be. So were bringing out our best deal on the new iphone 12 with 5g, on every plan. Right now, get the iphone 12 on us on every single plan. Switch now and save 20 on your bill versus the other guys. Thats the best value in wireless. Thats right. The iphone 12 on us. On americas largest 5g network. And save 20 per month. Its time to holiday on. Its time for tmobile. 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Ask your dermatologist if cosentyx could help you move past the pain of psoriasis. Including Jake Sullivan for National Security adviser. Avril hanes for director of National Intelligence. Mike morel to head the cia. Pete buttigieg is set to be under consideration for the u. N. Ambassador post and for the Defense Department the list of names includes jeh johnson and senator tammy duckworth. For homeland security, val demings of florida and susan rice and Heidi Heitkamp and Bernie Sanders is reportedly in the mix for labor secretary. So Claire Mccaskill, what do you think of those and what are you hearing . Well, i think all of the people just named have something in common. Excuse me. Theyre very qualified. Joe biden is not going to pick anyone that he isnt really comfortable with. And that doesnt have a really solid resume. Theres a couple of names on there that i think would be fantastic. I mean, obviously, Pete Buttigieg is one of the greatest communicators that i have ever seen. He is incredible in terms of communication, but Linda Thomas Greenfield is an africanamerican diplomat who has a stellar reputation in the State Department. Here at the u. N. Would send a real signal not just to the rest of the world, but to the coalition of voters that gave joe biden this landslide victory. I think all of i mean, in the back of their mind, theyre looking at confirmation, how easily will confirmation be, How Big Of A Fight will this be. I have to tell you that the sitting senators have a disadvantage because im not sure that joe biden is going to want to mess around with a lot of Special Elections or appointments that youre not sure who will get them in terms of the senate. I certainly know that many of the senators are looking at potential jobs and i certainly know that Chuck Schumer is trying to help all of those senators. Chuck schumer would never stand in their way, but joe biden knows about Counting Votes and he knows that losing any senators especially those with republican governors would be a very dangerous path to go down in terms of what he needs to get done in congress. All right. On friday, Top Democrats sent emily murphy, the head of the General Services administration, the woman whose job it is to begin the process of getting bidens team briefed a letter asking for a private briefing today. Writing in part, we have been extremely patient. But we can wait no longer. Murphy has yet to respond to their request. This is incredible. Joining us is virginia he have run and she talks about the gsa leader vies for trumps lies. This is really frustrating to watch. It appears this woman is simply refusing to do her job. Well, im going to send everyone back a little bit to Junior High School english class and the great Herman Melville story, its about a lowlevel bureaucrat who doesnt want to do his job. Joe, what do you remember the main line he says, id prefer not to. He just doesnt and then all of a sudden it doesnt work, right . And in bartle by the scribner, he wants to throw, you know, throw a Monkey Wrench into all of the works but in life, emily murphy is a complete cipher. Why would she prefer not to . Why would she do this . We have only one statement from her on twitter makes Herman Melville look completely clear and easy to understand. I wanted to remember her tweet, i dont know if either of you have it committed to memory but its a bunch of gobbledygook letters. I think there are a lot of zs in it too, and it suggests something is very weird here. She said nothing except this nonsense thing and she wont do the simple task of signing something that will make the transition go forward. And she will go down as one of the great obstructers and liars for trump of our time i think. So virginia, lets talk about this past weekend you had a thread on twitter that i thought was dead on. Ive gotten so tired of people talking about Trumpism Surviving Trump and were going to have trumpism for the next 30 years. We heard about the Obama Coalition that was going to stay with us for decades. I remember when i was younger, everything talked about the reagan coalition, It Reframed Politics forever four years later, and then of course, bill clinton was president of the United States and then immediately after barack obama left the white house, the Obama Coalition was in the minority and having to deal with donald trump. You think the same will happen with donald trump when he leaves the office at this that this trumpism will not survive the presidency of donald trump. Yeah, i think thats right. It was a twitter thread, so i was kind of experimenting with this idea because as you say, joe, like virtually everyone has said well, you know, we have so much work to do. All of the underlying trumpism thats kind of there in the culture and it occurred to me, we have been thinking so much about virology and about the coronavirus. Whats what was shocking to the system about covid19, not it was not that it was the worst virus anyone ever had seen. It was just a new one. Our bodies had never seen it before. Then we cant be expected to deal with something we have never seen before. Trump was a first in so many categories that hes just entirely kind of come out of nowhere. And we have slowly built up an immunity to him. And you can even see with first, he lost decisively the popular vote in 2016 and it even more decisively and the electoral vote this time and were rallying and Going Forward well know trumpism when see it like a virus and well know how to reject it. Also, Jonathan Lemire, as virginia says, not only did trump lose by 6, maybe 7 million votes, but also you look at the polls that we lament the fact that 50 of the voters think the election was rigged. That means that 50 of Trump Supporters do not believe the election was rigged. So add that to all of those that already are disaffected from donald trump. And suddenly, were talking about a minority of americans. You know, joe, thats completely correct. Virginia, i wanted to get you to expand a little further on the thread you just started the poll. There a theres some worry that democrats have said to me over the last four years and concerned that President Trump, you know, sort of the charismatic figure who managed to thread the needle in the Electoral College, despite the popular vote defeats. Once he got into office though, you know, he was sort of ineffective at governing. You know, he could have done more they believe to sort of damage the democracy and the fabric and the institution of this country than he already has and theres been plenty of damage and they worried there was another figure down the road who could have the same kind of populist national streak and be better at being president than President Trump and hes the John The Baptist figure. Wasnt it his charisma, filling the halls with thousands and thousands of people, thats a hard combination to come up with. I want to get your take if we can see another figure like this, whether its four, eight, 12 years down the road. This is a great question. I really am increasingly convinced that this was a lightning a bottle situation, theres not going to be that don jr. , its just hard to imagine who could do this again. And, you know, there have been a lot of talk among cult experts about what trumpism is and why people believe it and they say that cults do not survive the death of their leader and even kind of, you know, crime rings dont survive the death of their leader or the exile of their leader. I think thats what well see happening here. It will be another Keith Ranieri or honestly like another Jeffrey Epstein that, you know, once hes gone, its gone. At least thats my hope and my perception of whats going to happen. All right. Writer for the Los Angeles Times opinion section, virginia, come back on the show. Nbc news can report that President Elect joe biden is expected to nominate Jake Sullivan and Linda Thomas Greenfield as a u. N. Ambassador. Biden is expected to name tony blinken as his Secretary Of State. Claire, kind of exciting. Were getting these names lined up. You know the world expects a transition even given this clown show were seeing from the trump campaign. It is sort of exciting to see the names beginning to pile up. It is exciting. All of us are a little worried about how Mitch Mcconnell will handle this. Keep in mind, the confirmations only happen if Mitch Mcconnell puts them on the floor and will he go that far . Will he try with some nominees to deny them a confirmation by doing what i call a Merrick Garland on them, refusing to even allow their names to be voted on by senators for final confirmation. I dont know what will happen. I think hell face pressure in the caucus to do both, but some of the names being bandied around not the ones that you have named. I think they have a solid chance because off their resumes, because of the professionalism they have shown and the relationships they have built up in congress. But some of the other names will have a much rougher go. Im not sure the biden team knows exactly how its going to be play out at this point. All right. Coming up, new efforts to help communities hit hardest by the coronavirus pandemic. Keep it right here on morning joe. T right here on morning joe. Ah sugar, ah honey honey you are my candy girl and youve got me wanting you applebees 2 for 20. Its date night in the neighborhood. No uh uh, no way come on, no no nnnnono only discover has no annual fee on any card. S uh um. Its shiori. Shori. Thank you, thats great. Shiori. I really love it. Shingles doesnt care. I logged 10,000 steps today. Shingles doesnt care. I get as much fresh air as possible. Good for you, but shingles doesnt care. Because 1 in 3 people will get shingles, you need protection. But no matter how healthy you feel, your Immune System Declines as you age, increasing your risk for getting shingles. So what can protect you . Shingrix protects. For the first time ever, you can protect yourself from shingles with a vaccine proven to be over 90 effective. 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Continues to set single day records with more than 194,000 cases on friday and no signs that the rate of infection is slowing down. Look at these headlines. Cases are up 1,200 in cleveland while 1 in 49 coloradans are believed to be contagious and daily deaths are on the rise, adding to the 250,000 americans who have now died. All of this increasing the strain on already overburdened hospitals. There are now fears that not only hospitals becoming inundated but that care may need to be rationed because of the overwhelming number of cases. Dozens of hospitals are bracing for even more patients following the thanksgiving holiday. Joining us news reverend william barber, he is president of the repairs of the breach and of the Poor Peoples Campaigns which has organized caravans in 24 states, plus washington, d. C. , to mourn the quarter of a million americans who have died from the coronavirus. Also with us Family Doctor at duke university, dr. Viviana martinez bianchi. She has been involved in the Pandemic Response and is working to improve Health Equity across the state of North Carolina in response to the pandemic. Reverend barber, tell us about the caravan and also pointing out we dont hear the president of the United States talk much if anything at all about the people who have been lost due to this pandemic. Yeah. You know, one of the terrible things is that donald trump and mcconnell and those following them are really committing crimes against humanity. This is tremendously immoral, and we have had not any time of National Mourning and those organizing in the 25 states and district of columbia, one lost 11 Family Members to coronavirus and shell be leading the caravans in mississippi. Were calling them caravans of remembrance and mourning and we cant forget the deaths and move past them like nothing has happened and then we must demand comprehensive relief and a smooth transition and then a moral agenda Going Forward. We are talking about 257,000 deaths, we only make up 4 of the global population. Were talking about one out of every four people are working unemployed or working at poverty wages. 100 Million People who are food fact that 210,000 of these deaths could have possibly been avoided. So what were going to do is have this National Moral monday caravans and remembrance and mourning, but also to say those of us who are living, we have a responsibility now in the name of those who have died so needlessly to fight for change in this moment. Reverend al sharpton is with us and has a question. I think one of the things that is good, because today reverend calvin butts and activist Deborah Frazier house and i are announcing a National Plan on covid testing. Franklin richardson and others are weighing in because what has been absent is that we are almost normalizing that a quarter of a Million People have died and that we are Going Forward out addressing the disparities and addressing what is going to go forward if these vaccines happen. So a part of what you are doing today is focusing the attention and bringing it right there all over the country. One of my mentors, jesse jackson, used to say to me, you cant lead where you dont do. Do you think this will tleed consistent coming together of the Faith Community like we are doing today with the testing and what you are doing with the caravans . Have the faith leaders by their silence and inaction cosigned this normalizing of a quarter of a Million Deaths in covid19 could have been avoided if we had a president that jumped on it in late january when he was informed of it . Some of them have. But we have now over 6,000 clergy that are a part of our pro fet i c fet i c prophetic counsel. We have advocates, allies, because a majority of the people, whether they be white, black, or brown are poor and lowwealth people. We had 140 million in this country prior to covid and its only exacerbated since covid. We are saying we have an agenda that we have been pushing in the Poor Peoples Campaign saying we have to have equitable free access to Covid Treatment and vaccines for all regards, creed, race, color, sexuality, kwaurn needed health care for preexisting conditions that expand medicaid in every state and secure health care for all, expand food stamps and access to food, raise the minute midge wage to 15 an hour. Its poor and low wealth people. We have to expand unemployment insurance, paid sick leave, family leave, access to public and Affordable Housing and rental assistance. We have to stop all of the foreclosures and evictions immediately and enact the rent freeze including stopping all increases of rent and these things have to happen in covid relief and a new agenda because one act, one bill is not going to fix this. We are in a longterm recovery that we have got to fight all the way through and so people are coming together and we are going to be doing moral mondays consistently all the way through the first 100 days. Thats wonderful. Dr. Martinez bianci, lets talk about whats happening on the front lines. I think anything that you can tell us about what these coronavirus patients are going through, the increase in numbers, the space in hospitals, whether or not care needs to be rationed, anything to help people understand how important it is to try and stay apart over the thanksgiving holiday. Thank you. Good morning. Well, we need to think about how serious the situation is in certain states, like in North Carolina. We still are able to fly, you know, to have a capacity in hospitals. Other places are seeing their capacity be overcome. We are asking members of the community to do the serious job of using a mask, protecting themselves, protecting their significant others and their families. We have seen, as health care workers, we have seen the politicization of a Public Health response that should never have become red versus blue. It should have been all of us against the virus. We need to unite together to start seeing a decrease in this contagiousness. We know that wearing masks, keeping the distance, and trying to, you know, washing hands, et cetera, that the three ws of wearing the mask, washing the hands and maintaining distance are really, really working and we need to do something about this. We are seeing people disproportionately affected by covid19. We are seeing hispanics contracting covid19 and dying at disproportionately younger rates. We are seeing black people. We are seeing American Indians coming in at four or about four times more often than nonhispanic whites, and we are really looking at why is the reason and we are seeing that many of these, what we call h historical marginalized populations are essential workers. If you think in our economy that means people who are delivering our mail, it means home health aides, personal care aides, taxi drivers, chauffeurs, Meat Processing and Food Processing workers, agricultural workers, food delivery workers. We need to create a response that looks at who are the most vulnerable and to wrap services around them like it has been done in North Carolina by secretary cohen. In regards to the hospital, we are starting to, you know, just like all of you, we are tired. We are going to take care of people. Yeah. Dr. Viviana martinez bianci, thank you for what you do. Reverend barber, thank you as well. We will be watching. Up next, more republicans get frustrated with the president s efforts to cling to power. One key person remains silent. Senate Majority Leader Mitch Mcconnell. Morning joe is coming right back. Coming right back my nunormal fewer asthma attacks. Less oral steroids. Taking my treatment at home. Nucala is a oncemonthly addon injection for severe eosinophilic asthma. Not for sudden breathing problems. Allergic reactions can occur. Get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. Infections that can cause shingles have occurred. Dont stop steroids unless told by your doctor. Tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. May cause headache, Injection Site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. Ask your doctor about nucala at home. Well. Your nunormal witnucala. Well [announcer] welcome to intelligent indoor grilling with the ninja foodi smart xl grill. Just pick your protein, select your doneness, and let the grill monitor your food. It also turns into an air fryer. Bring outdoor grilling flavors indoors with the grill that grills for you. The alleged fraud outside the courtroom. When they go inside the Cruise Missile they dont plead fraud or argue fraud. The country is what has to matter the most. As much as im a strong republican and i love my party, the country has to come first. Whats happened here is quite frankly the content the president s team has been a national embarrassment. I have been a supporter of the president. I voted for him twice. But elections have consequences. And we cannot continue to act as if something happened here that didnt happen. You have an obligation to present the evidence. The evidence has not been presented. We used to go supervise elections Around The World and we were the most respected country with respect to elections, and now we are beginning to look like a banana republic. Its time for them to stop the nonsense. It gets more bizarre every single day and, frankly, i am embarrassed more people in the party arent speaking up. Current republican governor larry hogan and former republican governor Chris Christie agree on what to call it. An embarrassment. And, joe, picking up on that description, over the weekend the president and his campaign essentially admitted that their tactic is now to get State Legislatures and judges to flip the results in his favor. You know, its been kind of a ridiculous circus to watch with Rudy Giuliani, but that kind of goes beyond bumbling legal challenges, doesnt it . It really does. Actually, we talked about this Georgia Election thats coming up in Mitch Mcconnells state because he didnt want to hurt the republicans chances of winning in georgia. We have a civil war in georgia between republicans now. Its not only attacking the Secretary Of State thats a republican. Now donald trump and people that have been running around with his legal team are attacking the Secretary Of State, the governor, and actually suggesting that Kelly Loeffler, who is running in one of those special Election Races, shouldnt be there, that kemp rigged the election to help her. Come on. Get into the runoff. So the chaos is everywhere. Its pure idiocy, but its far more dangerous than it may even appear on the surface. You know, lets just bottom line this before we start the show. Donald trump and the Republican Party, they are now actively working to steal electoral votes, to steal electoral votes from michigan, pennsylvania, georgia. And other states. And they are going to do it by stripping millions of americans of their right to vote. Specifically tearing up their already cast ballots from earlier this month. I dont have to tell you this is deeply unamerican. And its an unamerican, unpatriotic attack thats being performed by a handful of vial political operatives who are trying desperately every day to carry out a coup. Look up the definition. A coup that would overthrow the presidency of a democratically elected leader who received over 300 electoral votes and got the support of 80 million americans. That means they are trying to overthrow a President Elect who received more votes than any candidate in the history of this Constitutional Republic. Think of that. A republican president working with a silent approval of a Senate Majority leader, Mitch Mcconnell, to stage a coup against a democratically elected president ial candidate. Who is President Elect. And they are doing it in the light of day. Theyre doing it with the acquiescence of republican senators and congressmen and congresswomen across the country. None dare call it treason, but maybe, maybe they should. And with that we will start the show this morning. With us we have White House Reporter for the Associated Press Jonathan Lemire. Host of Msnbcs Politicsnation and president of the National Action network Reverend Al Sharpton. And nbces in capitol hill correspondent kasie hunt joins us. Kasie hunt, lets talk about whats going on on the hill. Lets talk about whats going on in washington, d. C. You have a few scattered republicans that are saying, you know, we shouldnt stage a coup. Lisa murkowski, a coup is a bad idea, mitch. Lisa murkowski saying, no, we cant strip people of their electoral votes. States of their electoral votes. A Pressure Campaign on state legislators who influenced the electoral outcome is not only unprecedent unprecedented but inconsistent with the democratic process. Somebody triebd trudescribed tr republicans as postdemocracy politicians. They are looking like that more and more every day, kasie. I think you are starting to see cracks emerge because of what you just out lined. These are people who have to rely on americans having faith that their votes count and that our elections are free and fair. These are elected republicans. They are still in the bind that President Trump has created for them, and i think there is a lot of questions about whether President Trump would listen to them or care very much, and i think Mitch Mcconnell is still worried about those races in georgia and doesnt want the president to do anything to damage his chances of winning the Senate Majority there. But i think youre right. And the longer this goes on, the worse it is overall for the country. You are starting to see these republicans and acknowledge and say outloud. Politically, its just incredibly difficult. If you look at those races in georgia, their strongest argument in those races is to say well be a check on a Democratic Administration. Kelly loeffler, in addition to what you mentioned about them saying the election was rigged for her and david perdue, they cant say we will be a check on joe biden because they are not allowed to say per President Trumps rules that joe biden is the President Elect. The longer that they continue this, i think the more difficult its going to be for them to get out of it. And, joe, big picture here, too, i mean, we are talking about what the president is going to do perhaps in 2024. I mean, he is, for all of these people who are so loyal to him while they were looking ahead to their own careers in the future, their ambitions are stalled for as long as he wants to try to keep a hold on the party unless they are willing to step up and do something about it now, which i am not sure we are going to see that. Yeah, i dont know that we are going to see that. Reverend al, the scripture that applies here is, when were talking about Mitch Mcconnell worried about two senate seats, which hes probably going to win anyway, but what good does it profit a man to gain the world if he loses his own soul . What good does it profit Mitch Mcconnell to pick up two Safe Republican Senate seats if he loses democracy in the process . There is no justifying this for Mitch Mcconnell to sit back while a coup is unfolding in front of him. When the president of the United States is calling in legislators, legislative leaders to the white house. I want you to discount the millions and millions of votes in your state. The president saying, were going to overturn this election. We are going to get separate electors and we are going to do it in the light of day and we are going to do it because Mitch Mcconnell and 80 of the republicans in the senate arent saying anything about a coup against a man who has 80 million americans who voted for him. You went to the right scripture because we are really talking about not the soul of Mitch Mcconnell, but the soul of the country. If this country is to stand for democracy, if this country is to stand for the right to vote and the right for the citizenry to decide who will govern them, i think the governor of maryland said it right. We used to teach people voting and help supervise voting Around The World. The very soul of what this country stands for, what we taught our children, what we were taught as children to be is whats at stake. This not about an election in georgia or even an election on november 3rd nationwide. This is about do we stand for elections and what the results of the elections are, and what they stand for. And for people to have to reluctantly and belatedly come in to embrace what the country is supposed to stand for, they will pay for it in the long run, i think, because a lot of people will not forget them saying you are confused about the kind of country we are supposed to be. You ought not be a part of the leadership of the country. Still ahead, Donald Trumps lawsuits continue to go nowhere fast. So what good will it do firing a controversial lawyer when its the president who is the problem . Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. Youre watc well be right back. Tremfya® helps adults with moderate to Severe Plaque Psoriasis uncover clearer skin that can last. In fact, tremfya® was proven superior to humira® in providing significantly clearer skin. Serious allergic reactions may occur. Tremfya® may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms or if you had a vaccine or plan to. Tremfya®. 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We have had the biggest deficits ever under donald trump and this Republican Party. We have had the Biggest National debt ever under donald trump and this Republican Party. We have had the biggest pork barrel spending budgets every single year under donald trump and this Republican Party. We have had a president who has tried to undermine all the good things that republicans and democrats alike have done as it pertains to nato, as it pertains to spreading democracy across europe, protecting democratic countries. And here we have a president thats radical. He spins radically. He has radical Foreign Policy designs. He has a radical Foreign Policy that embraces dictators and tyrants, and now you look at what he is doing here in the United States constitutionally. All of my friends that walked around congress with constitutions in their pocket and yet remain silent today. This is the same president the last weeks of the campaign was pushing, was pressuring his Attorney General to arrest his opponent in the last two weeks of the campaign. Their constitutions stayed in their pockets safely. They didnt talk about how undemocratic that was. What a breach of constitutional norms that was, how that was a dictators move. They didnt say a word. With a president when he refused, when he refused to even guarantee a peaceful transition. They said nothing. Those little constitutions stayed in their pockets. And now that he is trying to steal an election, something that a few republican senators are saying, something that a few formerly conservative news outlets are saying, they are remaining silent. Jonathan lemire, we keep hearing that Mitch Mcconnell is going to come out and speak soon enough when he feels its safe to speak out. Hey, mitch, we got a coup going on. What you thinking . When is mitch going it Start Talking . I mean, because if he doesnt, i mean, hell, its not going to change history. I mean, because, guess what . Zwroeb joe bidens going to be the next president of the United States on January 20th At 12 Noon and mitch knows that. All hes doing is undermining americans faith in the democratic process. And how long is he willing to do that, jonathan . How long are republicans on the hill willing to do that . How long are the president s apologists willing to do that . Its an extraordinary dangerous situation, joe. To this point, Senate Majority leader Mitch Mcconnell shows no inclination to move. I think as kasie outlined the goal is georgia. He Still Believes this is the right way to motivate republicans in that state to keep on, to keep the majority in the senate, which is what mcconnell prizes most of all is maintaining power and control over that body. There may be a calculation he makes at some point that trump is doing more harm than good. Perhaps it is when the Electoral College meets and certifies everything. Thats still a few weeks away. A lot of bad things can happen between now and then, particularly with the pandemic. There are some those concerned about our democracy who should be grat tied to this point, the coup is not working. I was at the white house on friday when the president invited these michigan republicans there to discuss perhaps not certifying the vote. Those michigan legislators said there was nothing they saw that boo lead to that measure, that the vote would not change. Over the weekend we saw a judge in pennsylvania utterly eviscerate the president s legal arguments there. Another loss for that legal team in a state that they have tried to appeal, tried to contest, tried to flip, and then last night we saw a civil war erupt within the president s legal team, Sydney Powell, Michael Flynns attorney, the judgment was her assessment that the voter fraud was part of a global conspiracy that included hugo chavez playing a very, very long game, was too much even for them, and she was sort of let go, was made clear she was not a part of the president s legal team, although she stood next to Rudy Giuliani for two hours during his infamous sweaty and Hair Dye Streaked News Conference a few days ago. The president is not willing to give this up just yet. He stayed out of sight over the weekend playing golf. We briefly saw him friday at an event on Prescription Drugs. He refused to take any questions and he continues day after day to float unfounded baseless and flat out false Conspiracy Theories about the election. Usually, joe, the president is front and center on his Conspiracy Theories or whatever, ideas about hydroxychloroquine or putting bleach he puts his face on it. We havent seen his face at all. He doesnt want a lot to do with this, although its being done for him. Let me ask this question. You know, usually when you are too close to a situation, maybe you cant see as well. What in the world would Mitch Mcconnell and others must be thinking, looking at this. Again, i cant say what it is, but this clown show. Well call it that. Do they really thats where they want to align with history . A terrible miscalculation on Mitch Mcconnells part. Whats the calculation . I want to be an idiot . If Mitch Mcconnell thinks that his legacy is going to be anything more than what he is doing during this, the most radical of president ial transitions, that for the first time in the history of this great Constitutional Republic Mitch Mcconnell stood by and was Donald Trumps wingman as donald trump tried to pull off a coup against a democratically elected president. If mitch thinks that, oh, i got three judges in . No. Thats not going to be Mitch Mcconnells legacy. His legacy is going to be that he stayed silent and he acquiesced and he was working quietly with donald trump while donald trump was trying to pull off a coup against a democratically elected president who got 80 million votes, more than any other president , president ial candidate in the history of this great republic. Coming up, will republicans still be afraid to confront the president after he leaves office . We will talk about the future of trumpism in the gop next on morning joe. soft chimes [announcer] forget about vacuuming for up to a month. Shark iq robot deep cleans and empties itself into a base you empty as little as once a month. And unlike standard robots that bounce around it cleans row by row. If its not a shark, its just a robot. Ythey customize yours lcar insurance. So you only pay for what you need. Wow. That will save me lots of money. This games boring. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Its moving day. And are doing the heavy lifting, jess is busy moving her xfinity internet and tv services. It only takes about a minute. Wait, a minute . But what have you been doing for the last two hours . Delegating . Oh, good one. Move your Xfinity Services without breaking a sweat. Now thats simple, easy, awesome. Xfinity makes moving easy. Go online to transfer your services in about a minute. Get started today. Here is what doesnt make any sense, kasie. We have been trying to explain this slowly so mitch can figure this out, slowly. Maybe i need to speak in russian for mitch so hell understand this. But lets walk through this for a second. Weve got two races in georgia. A georgia gop civil war started several weeks ago where people started attacking the republican Secretary Of State. Now the attacks have moved to the republican governor there. To be honest with you, one the biggest sycophants this the president has had in any Governors Office. And then this past week at the end of the week suddenly the Conspiracy Theories, those lies that the president s legal team started spitting out, they started focusing on Kelly Loeffler, one of the two republicans that are running there, and, yes, Sydney Powell, who was on the republicans who was on the president s legal team, up until the time she said this, actually is now started the Conspiracy Theory that Kelly Loeffler stole her seat from doug collins, that but for this hugo chavez conspiracy, it would be doug collins running for that second seat in the runoff and not Kelly Loeffler. This is a game that cant shoot straight and quite a few selfinflicted wounds with an election a month away. I just cant believe that Mitch Mcconnell wants this chaos to continue. I dont think he does, joe. But the fundamental reality is that they are still scared of donald trump. They have been afraid of him and the power that he has over his base of supporters for the entirety of his term in office, basically. There have been a handful of them who have stepped up and tried to oppose hthis president. Jeff flake, bob corker, a few others. None of them are in elected office anymore. Because they didnt have any path to it. Now, Mitch Mcconnell knows probably better than anyone how to win a general election. Thats why he backed Kelly Loeffler over doug collins from the very start. But i think the question is, and i just dont know how long it holds considering what the party is doing here in the face of donald trump. I mean, yes, its true that trump turned out a lot of republican voters. They were surprised how well they did on Election Night and they attribute that turnout to trump. The reality is donald trump lost the election to joe biden. And if republicans want to control the senate in the long run, they need to win people who were so turned off by donald trump that they voted for joe biden, even if they voted for republicans before. So i dont know when this dam breaks. We have asked this question over and over and over again. I have been asked this question here on this program over and over and over again for four years on all of these different issues, and this, this is the be all and end all, right . This is the end of the road here, and if this you still keep going with this, i mean, i dont know how you come back from Something Like this. Its very, very hard to see. And i think i have said before, i had a lot of conversations before this with republicans who privately said at the end of the day, if he loses, we are not going to let the ship go Down In Flames. The ship being the Republican Party and all of the history that is behind it. All of the people that came before that built what it became. We are not going to let the ship go Down In Flames with this guy, donald trump. But thats what we are watching right now. And i dont know. And the Electoral College deadline is an important one to watch. The Georgia Election is one to watch. If donald trump refuses to leave the white house, i am not sure anyone is reporting that as far as but what will they do if that happens . I dont know. Their track record would suggest they are not going to do anything. Coming up, joes new book is out tomorrow. We have a special conversation lined up for the next block. We will talk about reaching across the aisle in the age of harry truman and today. Morning joe is back in a moment. Eep. Amber crood, think you could spend your tomorrow with me . [ gasps ] i do. Eep would never leave us. Come on man. Just chill. No, you come on man [ gasps ] change isnt the end of the world. The pack is stronger together. Thats my girl. Boom boomzies . Boomzies. Dun, dun ,dun . 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Our country has joined with others in the task of achieving peace. We know now that this is not an easy task or a short one, but we are determined to see it through. Both of our great Political Parties are committed to working together, and i am sure they will continue to Work Together to achieve this end. We are prepared to devote our energy and our resources to this task because we know that our own security and the future of mankind are at stake. Right here i want to say that no one appreciates more than i the bipartisan cooperation in foreign affairs, which has been enjoyed by this administration. [ cheers and applause ] that was president harry truman in 1950 giving his state of the Union Address where he lauded the historic bipartisan shift in u. S. Foreign policy from isolationism to leading the International Coalition against soviet communism. Truman often held up american democracy as an example to the world. Something that joe writes about in his new book saving freedom truman, the cold war, and the fight for western civilization. Its officially out tomorrow. But were talking about it all this week. With us to continue our great discussions we have, professor of history at Tulane University Walter Isaacson, former u. S. Senator Claire Mccaskill, who is such a truman fan, and the aps Jonathan Lemire is still with us as well. Joe, i posted the book on my instagram and a picture with the dog and then the dog ate it. But anyway. Yes. It ties into what we have been discussing this morning, that true bipartisanship also includes calling out radicalism, radicals abroad and at home, does it not . It really does. And harry truman, he believed in the green light, but his green light was bipartisanship, american democracy, a democracy defined by madisonian checks and balances, constitutional conventions, political are traditions that separated the United States from tyrannical countries and that separated what harry truman did in his time, and the seven president s that followed him, with what we have seen the past four years, especially over the past several weeks. You know, unlike donald trump and the brexiteers, harry truman believed in surrounding himself with the best and the brightest and the swiftest political athletes available. I will tell you, while i was writing the book, we have Walter Isaacson here, i went back to a book that walter wrote i think in 1986 along with evan thomas talking about the weiwise men a these friends created the world we live in, created the american sen interest i, created the postwar success that we enjoyed. We had truman had general george marshall, a man who organized americas victory over hiltler in world war ii. Dean atchison was an architect of a u. S. Foreign policy that contained and defeated the soviet union. George kennon, dramatic warned of stalins designs on all of europe and argument that containment was the only way we could protect freedom not only at home but across europe. The ambassador who understood firsthand better than anybody else that evils of stalinism and the need for america to stand up against its former allies aggression. Walter, i want to talk to you about harimann and talk about the great contrast between who harry truman surrounded himself with and, unfortunately, ill just say it, the idiots, cranks and former golf caddies that donald trump surrounded himself with. Truman had harimann as his ambassador of the soviet union, an american who spoke, as you wrote about, to stalin more than any other american, and a guy who first went to russia when the czar was still there. Nicholas ii was still there. He understood his job better than anybody else in the world could, and you can go down the list with bl it was kennon, whether it was atchison, whether it was marshall, harry truman knew to accomplish what he needed to accomplish, and joe biden i think knows this, too, you have to surround yourself with the very experts that donald trump and the brexiteers had such contempt for over the past four years. And as you point out in the book, its so important that politics stops at the waters edge, that you rise above partisanship. When we wrote the wise men, there were six of them. You named them. Also john mcleod, robert lovett. There were three democrats and three republicans as part of that group. And when they were doing the Marshall Plan, bob lovett was the one who had to go into truman and say we want to call it the Marshall Plan because hes so respected, and truman said, yeah, if you call it the truman plan, those damn republicans might jump on me and lovett had to say, you forget, mr. President , i am one of those damn republicans. In other words, one of trumans close closestvize was, like mccloy and others, republican. You write about that. I want to turn it back to you. One of the fascinating parts of your book is the relationship with vandenberg. Robert vandenberg, the republican senator who had been an isolationist and works with truman to get the greek turkish aid passed and to start the policy of containment. How did they Work Together . The good thing about truman is, like joe biden, he is a man of the senate. The wise men and truman worked well with vandenberg. Maybe its because i got to congress when i was a young man, walter, but i have been very skeptical of people who have never served in congress or dont understand washington, d. C. Who think suddenly they are going to be president of the United States and change the world. We have had three president s in the 21st century that either did not serve in the senate or with barack obama, a guy who was there, the second he got there, harry reid said you dont like it here, why dont you run for president . Harry truman, like joe biden, was a creature of the senate. That was a good thing because it made truman understand that more was required of a president than putting out snide press releases or signing executive orders, that he had no alternative, along with joe biden now, but to work with republicans who had spent their entire political lives working against his political interests. Thats how washington works. But he labored long and hard to build that working relationship with vandenberg. Not just vandenberg, but also chairman eaton who ron the Foreign Policy committee in the house. And they had so much at stake because they were trying to move past 150 years of american isolationism in peacetime. American isolationism in peacetime. You know, George Washingtons farewell address, he warned of foreign entanglements. He warned america against getting involved in foreign affairs. And that speech was so revered in the senate, and the senate was sort of ground zero for american isolationism, i explain in the book how the senate would read from washingtons farewell address every year. Of course, it was the United States senate that killed the league of nations when wilson wanted to do that. And so he understood the importance of getting smart people, the best and brightest around him, but Claire Mccaskill, he also understood when freedom was at stake that he and the house and the senate were going to have to do something we dont see. They are going to have to Work Together and work hard. In the house, they had no less than 17 hearings on the truman doctrine. Had that many in the senate. Scores of witnesses. They were flooded, the white house. The truman white house was flooded with hundreds and hundreds of members written questions. Instead of having snide quick responses or refusals like this white house and others in the past have refused to respond, they actually responded in the greatest of detail. I tell you what. The impact on those bipartisan alliances and on madisonian democracy, it was felt not only across america, but across the world because, guess what . Getting smart people around you and working your tail off at the end of the day adds up to good things happening for you and your administration, and harry truman, as you know better than me or anybody else, harry truman was a living example of that. He was. And i think first of all, anybody who is wanting to get a gut check about where we are in america right now versus where we were in the early 50s needs to read this book. Especially United States senators need to read this book. I have Read Everything thats ever been written about harry truman. I was so honored to sit in a desk where his name was signed on the inside and hold his senate seat. And the triumph of the truman presidency was really a 6723 skroet on the truman dock rtrinn the senate. Keep in mind that 67 was almost exactly evenly divided between republicans and democrats. Keep in mind that in the lead up days to this vote, taft gave a speech on the senate floor and talked about how he wanted to support the president on the world stage, that it would do permanent damage to United States standing in the world if the senate were to undermine trumans important Foreign Policy as it related to aid to greece and turkey. Look today. Greece has drifted under trump. They are supposed to be a member of nato, and they are showing tendencies that are frightening in terms of auto crates and debriefg the turkish people the grecian people of their rights. Both greece and turkey are in trouble today. Very much like they were as they were debating the truman doctrine. I think for all the republican noers who think its more important to make a democratic president look bad or to support a president who has lost an election, they really need to read this book and understand the consequences long term to our National Security. Its a terrific book, joe. Congratulations. Well, thank you, claire. And walter, let me make this bipartisan, because we are talking about bipartisanship. Democrats also need to read this book to understand. Youve got to do more than just invite a republican over to the white house one time. I remember when we talked to the Obama Administration and mika would say, hey, my dad had republicans over at our house all the time. We would hear from everybody. Well, he invited Mitch Mcconnell over for dinner one time and nothing happened. More than once. No. Thats what Obama Administration said. You invited Mitch Mcconnell over for dinner and nothing happened. Harry truman was working it every day, the best and the brightest, as you said, other than dean atchison who, lets face iters was a little arrogant and had little to no use for house members. Other than atchison, the Truman Administration understood they had to work with republicans and they did so. And for people that arent really familiar with this time in american history, this postwar era, its one thing for vandenberg, a former isolationist to come onboard and become a champion of the truman doctrine and a champion of containment against the soviet union and a champion of standing up against stalinism. But for robert taft, mr. Isolationism, a guy who became a hardened isolationist not because he had his head in the sand, but because what he saw after world war i made him an isolationist. For him to move on his deep conviction shows just how much working with the other side can do to bring both parties together on Foreign Policy matters that really are critical to this country. The wise men love it and sometimes atchison would leave the white house in the evening, drive up rock creek parkway and stop at vandenbergs apartment to have a drink with him to brief him on what was going on. We have to put it as you do in the book in a larger context. This was huge. As harimann, as you pointed out at the beginning of the segment said once, americans just want to go to the movies and drink coke now that world war ii is over. We have to make them understand why they have to be involved in the world. Britain had guaranteed in some ways the world order up until then. Your book against with britain deciding it can no longer help with greece and turkey. The world has been divided in some ways by churchill and stalin making ticks, as you write about, on a piece of paper. But greece and others are going to be a part of the western alliance, but britain cant support it. This is a huge shift thats not just about truman, and the bipartisanship was not just about truman. It was about truman and eisenhower and kennedy and nixon and all the way through to george h. W. Bush, which is president s of both parties decided that we were going to make the world safer, we were going to promote democracy, and most importantly, we were going to contain the spread of sovietbacked communism. Yeah, and as you know, at the beginning of the book, i talked about having two por ritz in my office. One of harry truman and one of ronald reagan. People understood why i had reagan. Did not understand why i had truman. I thought it was extraordinary. In our house, being a cold war warrior first, there were the two president s who started the cold war and ended the cold war, in many ways far more difficult for harry truman to start the cold war against russia who had just been an ally two years before. Thats whats so extraordinary and one of the reasons i dedicate the book to mikas dad, dr. Brzezinski, and to all the parties when worked over seven, eight, presidencies to defeat the soviet union. Again, bipartisanship at its best, not just in 1947, but from 1947 to Christmas Day 1991. Claire, i want to end by asking you, since you are trumans biggest fan. You come from kansas city. You have studied truman your entire life. There is one thing i have written about in this book that i just cant get to the bottom. What was with Harry Trumans motherinlaw, a woman who, when he was courting bess said truman wasnt good enough for her and even when truman moved her into the white house and continued to treat her lovingly, she still basically told him she doesnt think he was qualified to be president. What was with her . You know what, truman was used to it, though. Truman, as you point out in the book, he was really looked down upon. He ran the United States senate because the Democratic Party couldnt get their first three or four choices to run. No one thought he would win. When he was picked as Vice President , it was really on the strength of his work on war profiteering and the fact that, as you point out, that the fdr team was exhausted and picked him as somebody that would be harmless, quote unquote if not very impressive. So he was used to being underestimated, and his motherinlaw was probably the number one person in his life who underestimated him. But his love of bess, which he demonstrated to his whole life in every single day, that he lived his life, his dedication to both bess and his daughter margaret, he was willing to overcome it as he had all the derision of all the political operatives who always thought he was just a strange little man and wasnt going to amount to anything. Yeah. Called a strange little man from missouri, from a historian at the time. The New York Times called him a rube when he first got to washington, d. C. Democrats mocked him even in the 48 election with signs that said were just mild about harry. Oh. And that continued. But, you know, mika, he left the white house with a 22 approval rating. And, yet, Winston Churchill, his words for more than any columnist or historian or even his motherinlaws words, his words ring most true about Harry Trumans legacy. When churchill said more than any other man, Winston Churchill saved western civilization. Well, tomorrow we will continue these discussions about joes very timely new book saving freedom truman, the cold war and the fight for western civilization. Also tomorrow, joe will be on the today show and the tonight show with jimmy fallon. I might join for that appearance. And joe has some great Virtual Events coming up tonight at the truman library. Thats in conversation with claire. Thats going to be so fun. In conversation with Claire Mccaskill, tomorrow evening. One tfor the smithsonian with jn meacham and next wednesday an event for the commonwealth club. Youll need tickets for all three Virtual Events. To the websites for each of those organizations to register. And we will have information on our website as well. Joe. Msnbc. Com. All tickets will include a copy of the book. And well be right back with much more morning joe. Intelligent indoor grilling with the ninja foodi smart xl grill. Just pick your protein, select your doneness, and let the grill monitor your food. 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Innovating, sourcing organic ingredients, testing them and fermenting. Fermenting . Yeah like kombucha or yogurt. And we formulate everything so your body can really truly absorb the natural goodness. Thats what we do, so you can do you. New chapter wellness, well done. Did you try it yet . Comparing plans . Oh yeah. They sure can change year to year. I found lower premiums and lower prescription costs. And those new insulin savings hundreds of plans, 35 a month. Thatll save you money. So uh, mark . On medicare. Gov now. Open enrollment ends dec 7th. Comparing plans. Really pays. Paid for by the u. S. Department of health human services. Jon that lemire, i go know you have a question for Walter Isaacson, but how do you expect the week to start. What are you looking at . Normally, the monday of thanksgiving week in america is one of anticipation and excitement. People on their way to get together with family. This week its very different. We have the cdc discouraging holiday travel, fears of the virus surging everywhere and the president , stop if you heard this before, has no Public Events scheduled today. Its this continued lack of leadership on this everworsening situation. Walter, we have seen joe biden start to unveil his picks, his cabinet choices. Hes trying to slowly but surely step into this leadership vacuum created by the president. We know he is keenly focused on the pandemic, trying to get the transition going. Give us your impression so far about his first steps, his first nominees, what joe biden is doing right now to prepare us to take office. Ever since we wrote the wiseman, evan thomas and myself that joe held up a few minutes ago, people have said who are the wise men of today . If you look at what joe biden is doing, hes getting tony blinken. Hes getting Jake Sullivan. Hes getting, you know, for defense, michelle flornoy. People who are truly wise. They have a humility. In fact, more humility than some of the atchisvtchison types who around truman. But they understand where the world is going, and i think this is going to shift the tone. Were all going to have a very subdued thanksgiving, but were going to think about things that we ought to give thanks for. And i suspect, you can call me back in about two weeks if i turn out to be wrong, having heard this show and to talk about leader Mitch Mcconnell and everything else. After thanksgiving, after some moments of reflection, after watching whom biden is bringing in around him, people like senator Mitch Mcconnell and others will quietly start saying this time to move on. Theyre institutionalists at heart. If you read Mitch Mcconnells own memoirs, and i hope he rereads them this week, he talks about the need to keep the extremes on both sides at bay while we work and keep our institutions intact. I think you will see that coming out, out of thanksgiving. Because thanksgiving this year is going to cause deep reflection in all of us. Well, and if people follow the rules, claire, theyll be having thanksgiving like you will, making togo baskets for people to pick up at your door. But are you as hopeful as walter . And i guess my question ill follow up my question, why start now . Yeah, i think it is a time to just like walter said, to be reflective and thankful. Im thankful that joe biden got a landslide victory. And it will come to pass and great people who will put the Country First will take over the levers of government, and we should all be thankful for that. Claire, thank you very much. Walt walter, thank you as well. That does it for us this morning. Chris jansing picks up the coverage right now. Hello there. Im Chris Jansing in for stephanie ruhle. Its monday, november 23rd, and heres whats happening. Another shot of hope. Overnight, astrazeneca announcing its vaccine candidate is at least 70 effective and up to 90 effective. The good news against the backdrop of a devastating reality. Coronavirus cases in the u. S. Now top 12 million with hospitalizations and deaths skyrocketing coast to coast. New fears thanksgiving could be a massive superspreader event. This weekend, despite a cdc advisory against holiday travel, more than 2 Million People packed the nations airports. Thats the busiest two days