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this sort of mixture of things, jurors have experience with this, many jurors do, often i was a state court judge for a period of time, i tried a lot of driving under the influence cases. sometimes it was very difficult to even pick a jury because so many jurors had had devastating experiences with alcohol on one side or the other. and so i think that it will play a role in this, and it could be to hunter biden's benefit. >> mike memoli, carol lam, thank you both. and still to come, retribution as a platform, what exactly would donald trump do to political and legal rivals if he retakes the white house? his latest interview. meanwhile, president biden is in normandy just leaving to return to paris, but only after issuing a rallying cry for democracy. i'll talk to the national co-chair for biden/harris 2024