Announcer major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by the ongoing support of these individuals and institutions, and friends of the newshour including kathy and Paul Anderson and camilla and george smith. For 25 years, consumer cellulars goal has been to provide Wireless Service to help people communicate and connect. We offer a variety of no contract plans and our u. S. Based Customer Service team can help find one that fits you. To learn more, visit consumercellular. Tv. The john s. And james l. Knight foundation, fostering informed and engaged communities. More at kf. Org. Announcer and with the ongoing support of these individuals and institutions. This program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you. Amna welcome to the newshour. An historic day in washington. A federal grand jury has indicted former President Donald Trump on four counts, including conspiracy to defraud the United States and obstruction of an official proceeding. Geoff it comes after a more than nine month investigation by special counsel jack smith of mr. Trumps involvement in the january 6 insurrection and efforts to overturn the 2020 election. Amna this is the third time mr. Trump has been indicted this year. He was first charged in march in a new york court with 34 counts related to hushmoney payments made during the 2016 campaign. Geoff his First Federal indictment then came in june as part of the special counsels probe. A florida grand jury charged him with 37 felonies related to classified material found in his home. Amna White House CorrespondentLaura Barron Lopez has been following all of this and joins us here. As we mentioned, jack smith has been following two lines of investigation, the january 6 probe being one of them. Remind us how we arrived at this moment. Laura in november of last year was when the special counsel jack smith was named by attorney general Merrick Garland as being the one who would oversee these probes, the one into the classified documents at maralago, and this, the investigation into the former president s efforts to subvert the 2020 election, overturn the 2020 election, what he potentially did to obstruct proceedings in congress, and all the potential conspirators that he worked with to do that. So since then, the special counsel has interviewed a number of people that could potentially have information about what exactly the president did, what he knew, what he tried and how he tried to exert influence. Some of those are his own Vice President mike pence who we know testify to the grand jury. We also know brad raffensperger, the georgia secretary of state, testified and we know that recent reports show rudy giuliani, a former attorney to the president who was someone that we all heard repeatedly lie about the 2020 election, spoke for eight hours to federal investigators about this probe. Hes not named in the indictment as far as we can tell so far. It is a pretty big indictment. But he is someone who can very well face charges be it from the Justice Department or Fulton Countys District Attorney which is another potential venue where criminal charges will come. Geoff and expected by the end of the month potentially. The former president has been posting realtime reaction to this case. In fact, we learned he received a target letter because he was the one who posted it on his truth social platform. What is he saying . Laura yes, it was a lengthy statement and it was from his campaign. I want to go to this one first. It is striking the language his campaign used in response to this news of the indictment. His Campaign Said that the lawlessness of these persecutions of President Trump and his supporters is reminiscent of nazi germany in the 1930s, the former soviet union and other authoritarian dictatorial regimes. Its a stunning statement, especially as weve all spoken to historians about the historic nature of these investigations, the fact that a former president is being investigated, and i think all the historians we have spoken to would say that is not accurate. In fact, the fact that the u. S. Is investigating, that the Justice System is looking into this, is a sign that we are not living in a nazi, authoritarian regime. But the president also on truth social did post not too long ago , former President Trump posted, he compared this entire investigation. He said jack smith is trying to interfere in the 2024 election cycle. It sounds familiar because that is what the former president has been running on in his campaign since 2020. Amna laura barrow new laura baran lopez will stay with us. I will also go to mary mccord, director of georgetown universitys institute for constitutional advocacy and jessica roth, a former federal prosecutor. Welcome to you both. I know you were both making your way through the indictment, 45 pages. What stands out to you about what you have been able to review so far . It is the sweeping indictment we were anticipating, alleging a broad scheme to subvert the election and interfere with the peaceful transfer of power. I am still making my way through it but the allegations are shocking. Even though they were expected. This really was an attempted coup. It is a very somber day in our country to be repeating this narrative account about what the former president attempted to do. Geoff mary mccord, the indictment accuses the former president of three conspiracies. One, defrauding the u. S. Two, obstructing an official government proceeding. Thirdly, taking away civil rights. If you can walk us through the charges and help us out understand how the special counsel would arrive at the. All three are charged at conspiracies. There is a separate direct charge of obstructing an official proceeding, the congressional proceeding on january 6. The three conspiracies would be the result of jack smith spending many many months investigating the full scope of the scheme. The scheme had multiple prongs. Frankly, those multiple prongs are similar to what we learned from the House Select Committee and its many hearings last summer in the final report. This involved the scheme to propound full theories that the election had been stolen, to organize vaught fraudulent states electors to meet on the date of the Electoral College meeting and send the ballots into the Vice President to be counted, to pressure the Justice Department, to pressure state legislators to find the votes to declare trump the winner, to pressure Vice President pence to reject the ballots from the swing states for joe biden and instead either accept the ballots for trump or send these electoral ballots back to the states to decide. And then finally, to sit without taking action during the many hours of the violent attack on the capitol. This first count, effort to defraud the United States and its functions, it is the function of the United States government to ensure the peaceful transition of power. It is constitutionally required with chambers will meet took out the electoral ballots. The entire scheme undermined that. The obstruction of the official proceeding is targeted to the proceeding on january 6. It is the same charge many of the violent attackers have been charged with but here we are talking about the people doing the white color work to set up the obstruction of that counting of the Electoral College votes. It was obstructed for at least six flowers. The last count, section 241 of title 18 of the u. S. Code, is about a conspiracy not to count the ballots of the voters in this country, and you may recall among other things immediately after election day, donald trump said stop the counting. That entire conspiracy to not count the ballotsdeprive peoples to vote and have their votes counted, that is the third conspiracy. Amna i want to note for our viewers following along, we do expect a statement shortly from special counsel jack smith and we will join that in progress. We see another official at the podium. Our guests will continue to stay with us as well. Mary mccord, if you can briefly, jessica mentioned what this day means in the history of the United States. Have you had a moment to reflect on that briefly and read this indictment . Im still trying to read the indictment. Ive certainly skimmed through it and we have anticipated this for sometime. This is a situation where accountability is so critical. It is critical to our democracy, to the rule of law, and in the eyes of the world. Other democracies have faltered when they cannot actually have a peaceful transition of power. They falter when people in those countries are willing to commit violence against the government, sometimes at the direction of leaders who seek to stay in power like the former President Donald Trump. The fact that we can have accountability here, and this is just the beginning, we have a whole process to go through to give mr. Trump his due process and get to trial. Geoff in about 30 seconds or so, help us understand the burden of proof the federal the special counsel had to meet . Apologies in advance if i have to cut you off. The burden of proof is probable cause. That is the standard. It is far lower than proof beyond a reasonable doubt standard that he would have to satisfy to convict mr. Trump at trial. Geoff and pull back the curtain a bit more. Help us understand what was happening so far as you can tell us effaced based on your experience. What kind of quorum did they need and what was the ultimate vote they would need for the grand jury to decide and indictment was warranted . There are 23 members of the grand jury. You need 12 of them. A simple majority to vote that they think there is probable cause to indict the president for these crimes. It is a much lower standard than the standard that has to be met eventually at trial. Whats been happening in the last couple days geoff if i may, lets go straightaway to the special counsel, jack smith. Good evening. Today, and indictment was unsealed charging donald j. Trump with conspiring to defraud the United States, conspiring to disenfranchise voters, and conspiring and attempting to obstruct an official proceeding. The indictment was issued by a grand jury of citizens here in the district of columbia and sets forth the crimes charged in detail. I encourage everyone to read it in full. The attack on our Nations Capital on january 6, 2021 was an unprecedented assault on the seat of american democracy. It is described in the indictment, it is fueled by lies. Lies by the defendant targeted at obstructing a bedrock function of the u. S. Government, the nations process of collecting, counting and certifying the results of the president ial election. The men and women of Law Enforcement who defended the u. S. Capitol on january 6 are heroes. They are patriots and they are the very best of us. They did not just defend a building or the people sheltering in it. They put their lives on the line to defend who we are as a country and as a people. They defended the very institutions and principles that define the United States. Since the attack on our capitol, the department of justice has remained committed to ensuring accountability for those criminally responsible for what happened that day. This case is brought consistent with that commitment and our investigation of other individuals continues. In this case, my office will seek a speedy trial that are evidence can be tested in court and judged by a jury of citizens. In the meantime, i must emphasize that the indictment is only an allegation and that the defendant must be presumed innocent until Proven Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law. I would like to thank the members of the federal bureau of investigation who were working on this investigation with my office as well as the many career prosecutors and Law Enforcement agents from around the country who have worked on previous january 6 investigations. These women and men are Public Servants of the highest order and it is a privilege to work alongside them. Thank you. Geoff that was special counsel jack smith. He is not responding to shouted questions in the room. Jessica roth, i cut you off, apologies again, as we went to listen to what special counsel had to say. How does all of that strike you . I anticipated we would be hearing from him after the indictment was unsealed, that is consistent with the practice in florida when the indictment was unsealed that we heard brief remarks from the special counsel. So here after the indictment was unsealed, we heard brief remarks which i thought were appropriate, laying out the basic allegations here and how significant they are and how important essentially it was to bring charges to defend our democracy. It is appropriate he did not take questions, but i think it is important the American People here from the special counsel to acknowledge shes charges and speak about their significance and remind people that these are obligations in and indictment that are supported by probable cause, as determined by the grand jury, but that this defendant like all others is entitled to the presumption of innocence until hes Proven Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt at trial. Im also struck by his emphasis on the fact that the government would seek a speedy trial here as it has with respect to the other charges brought by special counsel. That will be a challenge given the crowded calendar mr. Trump is facing in his other cases but i expect we will be hearing more about the scheduling of this matter. On that point, im struck reading the indictment that it is only mr. Trump named here, even though there are clearly other coconspirators the government believes they have evidence to charge, they are not including him them in this initial indictment, most likely to make things streamlined, to make the chances of a trial before the general election more possible. Amna mary mccord, talk to us about the potential timeline ahead. Jack smith did say that and he would like to seek a speedy trial. I need not point out to you that we are facing an Election Year ahead. Is there anyway this trial unfolds before that election . I do think there is a way. I agree with jennifer that the reason the first indictment just named donald trump is an effort to make sure you are not dealing with multiple codefendants and all of their attorneys. I can make a pretty well educated guess about who some of those other coconspirators are and jack smith made clear the government is still continuing to investigate. I suspect we may see indictments down the pipe. Fright now, i think a couple things are possible. Alvin bragg, the District Attorney in manhattan, did state over the weekend that if he needed his trial date to yield to a federal trial, he was willing to agree to that, so that can open up some space in the spring before the maralago trial scheduled in may. I believe mr. Braggs case was scheduled for trial in march and the maralago case is scheduled in may. Its also possible the maralago case will get bumped even later because of the addition of three new accounts and a new defendant with a superseding indictment. I think we also have the potential of the georgia indictment, but i think this one will be prioritized in the timing and i think it is possible to get to trial before the election and preferably before the conventions. Geoff our White House Correspondent laura barronlopez is with us. Picking up on the point that mary made on this investigation, continuing the special counsel investigation, even in light of these indictments, help us understand where can this investigation go . Is the special counsel coordinating with prosecutors in arizona and michigan where we know there are active investigations into the elector scheme . Laura as far as we know, there has not necessarily been coordination between the special counsel and the investigation in Fulton County, but we know that when could be coming soon. What was striking to me to this point, exactly what the special counsel set, that the investigations of other individuals continued. In the indictment theres coconspirator one, an attorney who is willing to spread knowingly false claims and pursue strategies that the defendants 2020 Reelection Campaign attorneys would not pursue. Theres one about an attorney who assisted in devising and attempting to implement a plan to submit false electors. That sounds like john eastman, who was a conservative attorney advising the president throughout this entire period, and was actually talking to state legislatures about submitting electors. Im also thinking about sidney powell, another attorney that was really working in the states to overturn different elections, as well as rudy giuliani. We know he could be a target in the doj investigation as well as a target of georges Fulton County investigation. Amna we heard the special counsel also say this was conspiracy fueled by lies. The election lie that mr. Trump believed he actually won the 2020 election. Covering the politics among this, he continues to hold that light. How do you think their latest indictment becomes part of the narrative for his Election Campaign . Laura the data is there. Every time weve seen the president be indicted, his base rallies around him. Republican voters rally aroun