>> "race matters: america in crisis",a pbs newshour special. >> woodruff: good evening, i'm judy woodruff. welcome this pbs newshour special, "race matters: america e crisis." the death of geooyd at the hands of police in minnesota has ignited outrage across t world and once again exposed the deep wounds of racism here in the u.s. protesters have filled the s in cities large and small, demanding justice and change. the vast majority have bn peaceful, but there has been violence and looting, anag there've beeessive tactics from law enforcement. how americans see all this is filtered in part through the new poll, one we d n.p.r.o our and marist. 62% of americans say they believe the demonstrations areat legitiprotests. 77% of black americansthat way, but among white americans, it's 58%. 28% of all americans say they lieve the demonstrations are people acting unlawfully. we want to examine how we got to this moment and where we go from here. that is a long conversation, and we think it'smportant to start by listening to black americans. in days to come, all of us will decide what if anything will change. tonight, we will ask questions about policing, ineality and what it means to simply live while black in the u.s. but we begin with two influential voices who have thought long and hard about black history and america's future. filmmaker and producer ava duvernay's work has focused on the black experience, including the film "selma," the documentaryse13th," and the es "when they see us." her media y, array, has a new online educational platform about these issues.ke darren wis t president on, whicord foundati works to reduce poverty, improve equality and social justice. for the record, the foundation is a funder of the newshour. >> sreenivasan: darren walker let me stawith you. why do you think what happenedto eorge floyd and the reaction to it has the hold on us that io seemave, these massive protests that go on day osafter day a this country? >> judy, i think the moment of reckoning for this country on race has co. george floyd has captured our hearts, our broken hearts. because for african americans, his murder was but an extension and a long list of names over many, many years. we actually as a communityre not surprised. i think for white america, white america was deeply wounded and shocked by the visual of his murder over eight and a half minutes. and i think for white america, deniability of racism in our policing and in our nation is longer an option. and that is why it hs gripped us and resonates so deeply in the american psyche. >> ava duvernay, is it sometng that is repeat of what we've seen over and over again or is it something ditfferent of w happened to him in this moment? >> certainly, the act of black death is not new. that's, you know-- i think there was something about the pe testifying that was unusual. as someone who unfortunately watches this material a lot for my work. and that was the very clear framing oboth people looking directly to the cmera. you know, in other instances of murder by police on tape, may cam, which obsecures the officer wearing the camera. we may see it from a distance on a security camera. it's very rare that we've en both parties in the frame looking directly toward the lens for me, that's what was startling. i real had to interrogate fo myself, "why is this bringing me to my knees?" especially when i'm so used t watchinwatching this stuff. and i came to the conclusion that i could see at white officer's face, i could see his disdain, i could see his intention, in my view. i could see the callous disregard for human life. >> woodruff: and, darren walker, there's a gut-level demand for justice right now. what would justice look like? >> we need to reform the systems that produce too much injustice, starting with our economic we hav look at fundamental tostem. systems in our economy, like the basic questio of how much capital do we allocate for workers so th we don't have an economy that produces too osmuch irt for people like me, and too little prosperity for people like george floyd. we have to look at our criminal justice system and ask why is it we lock up so many black and brown men and women inhis country? we have to look at our educationasystem and ask why is it that we have school districts side by side, one affluent with the richax base and great schools; next door, a poor district without school books. this is america. the question is will we go back to the playbook that we alys do, which is to have leaders make statements, to have corporations issue pl satitudes, maome contributions to black organizations and then go bac b iness as usual? that playbook will not workon this occasion. >> woodruff: well, when it comes to the playbook for the future, at first, it seems to me, people need to talk about and need to have-- come to some kind of an agreement, ava duvernay, on who is at fault here? we know the polen are involved. is it generations of white americans? is it the police across the country? is it politicians? who is at fault? >> alhe problems that we're seeing now, their foundations lie in our racist story as a country that's never been reconciled. the question now is do people who believin justice and dignity of all corsd annds, can we digest that and start to let it nouri us as we really try to dismantle these systems? th'll have to get out of framework, the way of thinking that any of this is salvageable, because it's truly not. it's built on a rotten foundation. i would just say, judy, to this point, we have to also acknowledge that what has happened in this country in the last two decades is a context of growing inequality in america. and we have had many white people who el left behind. inequality is so pernicious in a democracy. because inequality asphyxiates hope, and hope is the oxygen of democracy. and so we have too many hopeles people, black and white. but african americans have a historic reckoning that this country has never come t terms with. we have a generation of downwardly mobile white people h this country. so wee today a confluence of two realities: the reality of black... which is right, and the reality of growing white economic vulnerability. that is what we are seeing on our street >> woodruff:given that, ava duvernay, how do you begin to make a difference? >> it's reinly abouviting people, particularly caucasian people, to put their heads together and think about strategies and tactics that onl white people can really do. agine white folk got together who were well meaning people who believed in justice and dignity for all, packed together wih strategies along those lines, very muscular,very demonstrative, beyond statements, beyond social med hashtags, but thought of strategies to actually work to dismantlein these actively, i think it would be a game ufanger. >> woo darren walker, civil rights movement, there was dr. martin luther king and other leaders from the white community, from the black community, leading the way. who were thade s of today? willing to raise their hands, to roll upheir sleeve. we have to be the leaders we need. we need our corporate leaders to throw out their playbook and startfresh, to get over, put a il in the coffin of the milton friedman ideology that corporations' only purpose is to make money for shareholders we he to have our policymakers and our political system respond to the people who are in the streets. i am inspired by the protesters. the peaceful protesters who simply want to live in fair society. that is not too much to ask. and the time has come for america to save itself,to save our democracy. >> woodruff: ava duvernay, what would you ousay this question of who do we look to for leadershir and the otestion i have for you is what do you say to the young african arican b or girl who is sitting there right now, maybe-- maybe with a white friend, both of them fearful about the fture? >> we've learned from our american history that leadership with one leader put on a every black leader that has risen through the american media apparatus has been killed or exiled, and a distributed leadership m is the most healthy and most productive in that there is no one place to pinpoint the scorn of the system. i would tell young people that ese are not our darkest days. that our dark est daare when voices were being suppressed. when black people were not allowed it write or read by the white power structure. where we were not able to walk into municipal buildings, having to go through the back. there have been gains made. this new era and ke developing our systems and our strategies to defend ourselves, and so that's what i would invite the next generation to start thinking about now. edlot of white people called me and text me, great friends of mine, people they love dearly,e, asking "what do i do?" and my answer is educate yourself. there have been white allies throughout the history of america who have gotten together and come up with muscur strategies for change. and many of them have worked. and so, feel lihere's kind of this "what do i do? what do i do?" which really is asking for black labor in this moment to help you think through what to do. trust methere's something to do right where you are.f: >> woodrufnd that brings us to the last question i had, darren walker, which is how do you give people hope? what is e message of hope that you have right now for everyone tching? >> i am very hopeful, judy. there are so many reasonfor hope. first, because we live in a democracy, and every american needs to vote. we can see on the streets across this country reasons forho -- young, black, and brown an queer, and people in wheelchairs, people old and young in the streets. they are in the streets because they, too, erlove amica. they want america to be america. >> i believe that we can do better, and that's where hope lies. i believe that this might be a tipping point. it's hard to say. you know, but i'm hopeful that it is. and i'll be working to engage with that hope actively. d that's what i-- i invite others to do alongside us. >> woodruff: ava duvernay, darren walker, we thank you both so much. thank you. >> thank you. >> woodruff: we turn now to the issue of policing and start by hearing fromsomeone who knows firsthand about law enforcement and its intersection with blk americans. four yearscr ago, terenccher was shot and killed by a police officer in tulsa, oklahoma. with his sister, tfany.ly spoke and a warning: some of the images will be difficult to watch. >> my name is dr. terence crutcher, twin sier of terrence crutcher who was killed in tulsa, oklahoma, in 2016 by a of betty joe shelby. by the name terrence, they called him anytime big crutch." he was a gentle giant. he was just a beautiful, beautiful soul. ( sire ) service with my mom and dad, and 15 minutes later, he was dead.o, and his vehicle stalled in the middle of the road. from the testimony of betty shelby, sheaid she thought he was high, and that he may have been having a mental hea alth breakdow she wanted to help him. and then saw terrance not communicating, not looking well, and she callefor backup. next thing we know, if you look at the video, there's police officers fleeing in,there are helicopters loomin >> i think he may have just been tasered. >> shots fired! >> and then the video jst stops, and terrence is gone. and we found out that he was tased and shot simultaneously, and i know he ans unarmed. i know he didn't see the bullet coming. and the next thing that i remember and that i see evt ery nien i lay down is his bodyn the ground with bloodhe ever. >> what was your reaction to watching the death of george floyd on video? >> george on video, i felt like terrance was shot all over again. this time, it was difuferent. know, hearing george cry out for his mom, andatching the officer notven care or mov elicited a stress reaction physically. and i couldn't sleep for at least three days. >> and broke out in hives from the stress. and it's just been i would stiay traung. >> what don't people understand about families whose loved ones are killed on video? what's not shown about your experience? >> wh's not shown is that it's impacting us in a severe way, from a mental health standpoint. for example, i got pulled over afte terrence was killed, and i took his little boy, terrence jr., and some of his cousins to the movies. ce turned oe poli the lights and just sped up behind us, we pulled over, but the kids were screaming historicallhistorichystericallye going to be shot. we're going to be killed." i had calm him down. terrence's kids are still in counseling. they go twice a month. and right now, his daughters are saying, "i wish that people uld have protested for my dad like they're doing for george,y' or like t doing for ahmaud," and they're dealing with the situation every single day, every time that happens on national tv. >> woodruff: we've seen that same exhaustion, anger and frustration in the thousands and thousands of protesters out ache country. for many, george floyd's death was just the latest example of decades of mistreatment by law enforcement. beyond the individual cases, like floyd and terence crutcher's, and rodney king before them, statistics show african-amicans bear a disproportionate toll at the hands of police. a 2019 study found that black men and boys are almost 2.5 by police than white men anded boys. but the di isparities manifest ways beyond fatal encounters and,ts we will hear, the eff on many black americans from all walks of life runsceep. yamiche ndor will have a conversation on all this, but first, we hear more voices of those affected. >> you have a daily fear of your life for no reason. i want to be able to outside, do whatever i want t do, stop worrying about someone trying to call the cops on me because standing in front of their store, or someone calling the cops on me because i'm walki across the street or i want to walk in their store with a hoodiei n. that's howant to walk. it's normal. >> for it to be 2020 and this is still happening, it's heartbreaking and nothing is being done. it's happening so much, they expect a black man's life each be taken bying t the police. >> i have been stopped by the police when i had a white girlfriend, and he asked how we knew each other and i told him. he said, "i guess that's permitted now." >> i have four children, and i've worked so hard to cultivate their lives and their beingness. and so the idea that they ca have a random encounter with a end their life, ty get to endto their future. >> my plans were to actually be a police officer, but then i realized that one good apple a bad batch really doesn't make a difference, because once you sign your life over badge, you have to be loyal to who you work for. that the injustices that continue to happen over and over agn, that they can be learned from and used as a lesson in order to create change. >> for a closer look at these concerns and fears i'm joined by tracie keesee, cofounder for the center of policing and equity. shis also a former denver police captain and a former of equity and inclusion.issioner and tef poe. he's an activist and rapper who arted "hands up united", in reaction to the killing of michael brown in ferguson, missouri. the group advocates for more accountability policing. thank you so much for both of you for being here. i'm going to start with you, tef. what was your reaction to seng the video of george floyd. >> i felt very disturbed that a law enforcement officer could murder somebody like that in cold blood. and i was even more disturbed by the fact that the other officers stood around and watched it and i think that speaks a lot about the state of our country today. when you saw that white police floyd's neck for eight minutes and 46 seconds? >> for me it's not justwhy, why are you doing is that thaad? it is one of ich why is everybody standing around and i think like most, i was almost physically sick to my stomach.n agnflicted. i have been in uniform. i have certainly been in spaces where i had to use force. buthe immediate reaction to me is why again? why are we here. >> tef talk to me about your experience as a black n and interactions with police. >> i try to keep my interactions withaw enforcement as minimalistic as possible. it can go any type of way in it usuallyourses and distribute go in my favor. on someone that could bepolice attacking me or breaking into my home. it could still result in me ending up the person that's dead.y soirst memory of the police in a real sense as a young ack boy is my father pulling into a driveway to back out because we had drove into a neighborhood and got lost. driveway and pulled us over, pulled him out the car, questioned him, threatened to take him to jail because they said that they knew we didn't live at that house. and i just remember that. and that-- that left a lasting impression to me about interacting with the police almost for the rest of my life, even to being a younger adult myself who's had pistols dai at me by the police, shot at by the police. >> reporter: tracy, what do you make of what tef is saying? wherhave you seen bias play out in policing, and what reforms do you think need to take place? >> so, i mean, tef doesn't need me to validate his voice. i think he said it perfectly. that is the experience of many black m in america that he so aptly described. and when we talk about where do you see bias? i mean, you see bias in all areas.k but i th what we've got to do is back up and understand the system of criminal justices itself wasigned to do exactly what it's designed to do. and so we talk about structural racism, we talk about how it plays out and what it looks like. we know there's disparities in the outcomes of policing. and what's happening hday is not a reform movement. this is a movement teqt's gog tore something absolutely different than what is happening. coordinated effort to look at what we are calling policing today, and if we're not taking communities believ public safety should be served and we can talk about reforms all-- all we want. and i don't know about tef, but, for me, you know, there's exhaustion. stioe's generation exhau here, and it's just not going to be, nor will it be allowed to be the same >> reporter: tef, i met you in ferguson in 2014. you were active in the protests then after the killing of michael brown. why do you think this moment in 2020 is different and is happening? and what do you make othat exhaustion that tracy is talking about? >> tracy codn't be more correct. donald trump is a master of trage fatigue. every week, every day, every hourevery millisecond of the functioning day, there is something to be outraged about. and we have to remember that thb a administration did not challenge the militarization of policing wto the degree th have reworked our memories to remember. and we also have tremember th we are now fun lioning in thear aspect of a two- party system where neither the democrats nor e republicans are giving us suitable answers about what to do about rog policing. as things currently stand, this isn't really a black or white thing anymore. so, that's the real problem for nte united states governt this point, that the citizens are genuinely uprising on their own and taking matters into their own hands. >> reporter: the minneapolis police department was credited in some ways as trying implement some of the changes and reforms that activists were calling for, but this still happened. tracy, can you talk a little bit about the barriers tchange here? >> one of the things is, know the culture of policing noself. this it new. this is not a conversation that is just popping up on the radar there's beenong conversations about the culture of policing and the narratives that support some of the things that happen. the other tvehing is you chiefs that don't last, right. so, you have someone who's trying to do the right thing. chiefs' tenures are usually three to four that's not enough tohio much of an but to maybe do policies and train folks. the other barriers is that you erally need to think about what's happeningare not just officers who are engaging. you have to fundamentally think about what type of police or officer do you want? what do you-- what do you want in them? what should they be able to d demonstrate a one of the sort of fixes to this were to have officers of color, black officers, and organizations. and if you have not, take the time and speak to officers of color and women, and they will definitely tell you that when-d you're in a mainant profession and a white male-dominant profession, there and, typically, fho want to do the right thing meet barriers. people w speak out against the and then you have theiers. organization itself, which is typically still predominately white male. there's some exceptions to that, but you also have to think abouv what yougoing on inside. when you look at organizations where decisions are being made, where all the patrol officers color are at the bottom. of and as you look through the organization, through people who have an impact on-- direct licy and community it is not reflective. part of moving forward will be things. and there's been plenty, plenty of recommendations, plenty of evidence-based pieces that have been given that can help do that. eporter: what do you say to people who think all police are just bad? why do yo tstill believe s system of policing? >> so, first, let me talk about "all police are bad." would come from.e that i get it. but becae i work with them personally, i was one, i know that's not the case. i know there's people inside that orgization, many organizations trying to do the right thing. the question th's left on the table is what does that look like moving forward? and so, we do know thackt going o the old rulebook of how you engage and how do you, you .now, inform your policies are not going to wo >> reporter: and last word to you tef. where do we go from here? what dyou want to see happen? >> what i would love to seeth happen is for lack and white police officers to really open up their third eye and understand what's happening here. yyoou are allowinselves to be weaponized to the good of the oligarchs, to the good of people who have no n good for youe sense you have become the toy soldiers of the rich. and that can change right now, but we as the citizens can't change that. and there's no way in hell that law enforcement shouldth be at r the constituencies that they live next door to right now. likewhen you take that uniform off, you live next door to the same people you're shooting at, and that's ricuus. >> reporter: so much to talk about. thank you, tracy and tef. >> woodruff:s we discussed earlier tonight, this past week's protests have also re-ignited demands about tackling deep inequality in america. african americans face staggering gaps in wealth and income, in education, housing, and health care-- gaps that have been ld bare and made worse by even as today's joort for unemployment drop, blackte unemoyment rose to nearly 17%. amna nawaz will focus on the roots of these probls in a moment, but first, let's hear from people who live with the know the full preciousness ando precarrity in life. i sihave asthma, annce the lockdown has sort of happened around the pandemic, i haven't left my home. i'm telling you this that you understand how mh it would take to get me out of the house and to be on the streets, that the risk was worth it to me. >> the protests have a lot-- a lot of white allies, and i love that. now, what i would like toee is p to have thople using their power of the purs to help black businesses grow. because we desperately need it, especially in thera of covid-19. >> slavery built every piece of this countr o there is noe sector, not one industry that slavery did not help it's banking, education, health-- pick anything. we built this. of course we believe in this. of course we believe in this country. >> ittarts with our school system, writing black people ane peof color into the curriculum, because racism is something that is learned. >> raci isn't just a racist cop shooting someone or choking them out. that it's al how we show up in our workplaces. it's how we assess healthcare access and equality, and how we assess education and employment well, that all of these areas have work to do. >> the consistent theme a oppression is that black people are at the core of it. if we're talki about misogyny and the gender wage gap, it's black women whore being most impacted. fewer black women in this cotry, regardless of class, you are 243% more lely to die from maternal morbidity or mortality. >> i gave birth to my first son at piedmont hospital in atlanta. you would express ur pain or you wod express a particular issue that you're having, and the number of times that medical professionals wod say to you, "oh, let's just wait it out and see if it doesn'tget better." i live in my body. i live in my experienc i already know that it's going to be minimized. so i do everything possible on my end. so by the time come to you, i am in desperate need. >> wn this all calms down, what happens? who is the new normal, right? right now, this is good, this is whpositive. bu happens when there's no signs and there's no cameras, no microphone what are we dog every day. each and every day. >> reporter: for more now on how those inequalities are d,perpetuated, even protecy american stems and institutions, i'm joined by: dr. lauren powell, executive director of healthcare at me's up, which fights harassment and discriminatios n. she eviously the director of health equity for the william darity is a professor of public policy at duke public policy at duke university uthor of "from here equality: reparations for black americans in the 21st century"; and nikole hannah-jones is an investigative reporter for the neew york times maga- she led their pulitzer-prize winning 1619 project, examining the legacy of slavery in this stories of black americans. welcome to you all, and thank and, dr. powell, i want to start with you, because we cannot forget this moment ifolding on top of a global health crisis here in america. black americans are they make up 13% of thected. population but more than a fifth of all covid-related deaths. you've called this your nightmare scenario. why? >> well, i think that this moment is a confluence ic several histnjustices all at once. i was talking with a colleague not too long ago, and a colleague inrgency management and i really expressed that my biggest fear was that somethi as terrible as the murder of george fyd would happen in the middle of this pandemic and that people would feel the need and the willing-- the rifle need to otest in this moment. and the intersections of what covid-19 is already doing to the black counity on top of the potential for spread in protests certainly led to what i called "my worst nightmare" and what is actually coming to pass right now. >> reporter: professor darity, i want to ask you about the economic crisis we also cannot ignore, which is yet again disproportionately affecting black americans. black workers have been disproportionately affected. theibusinesses, many of them are essenti workers continuing to work on the front lines. it cannot get any clearer that the fact that the gaps in wealth and wages pre-date the pandemic, though, in this one grajuphic-- and want to share this, it was published this week in the "wwshington post"-- it s median household wealth over the inst 70 years in america. that top which is continuing to go up, is white household wealth. the bottom line is black household wealth, basically stagnant over 70 years. wonder, how is thasible? and what do you say to them? >> i think it's a consequee the intergenerational effects of the cumulative impact of america's racial history. the starting point for the gap that you desibed in the image that you presented is the failure to provide the formerly enslavedith the 40-acre land grants that they were promised at the end of the civil war. that failure was accompanied by the provision of 160-acre land grants in the western part of the united stateto numerous white families. so, on the one hand, the formerly enslaved got nothing, which precluded their opportunity to pass resources down to subsequent nerations, while many white americans eived substantial la grants. and then american national policies surrounding housing acquisition in the 20th century, particularly redlining, t as wel presence of predatory lending for homeownership-- all of these factors accumulate over time to create the kind of racial wealth disparities that we're observing now. >> reporter: and, nikole, to bring us back to this moment, now, we're having to question when we look at the wealth of individuals and households, but also-- also how weens a country our resources. it's led to this question and the message of defunding the police. i'm curious what you make of that conversation right now. >> well, what we know is, in a capitalist country, what we value is shown bpuwhat w our resources towards. we have seemed to have an unending aount of resources towards police, towards militarizing the police, towards building jails, towards incarceration, even as we've flat.public school spending go even that we have seen decline in spending on public goods d services. even as we've tried to cut programs, social safetucnet programsas food stamps. so, what the pandemic has shown us is that if we decide that we want to meet basic needs of our citize, in fact, can do that. we just are choosing not to. we suddenly have found that we can provide all of our istudens withernet-ready devices if weant to, that we can ask cable companies to give free internet to our students, that we can provide three meals a day for our famies and our schools. many of these things that we how do we then go back to notne. doing those things once this pandemic is over?or >> rr: you mentioned the ucion component, which doesn't get enough attention. and you've done so much extraordinary reporting, unpaing the ongoing gregation of american schools. we talk a lot about official accountability in this time, but i want to ask you about indidual accountability. can you explain a little bit about how the individual decisions that we make as americans, about where we live and where we send our kids to school, how that contrut to that segregation? so, we know that iequality is both structural and held up by individual choices tat everyday americans make. iswe have schoolicts that are very segregated, but they're segregated because the most powerful parents in a school district, which are affluentnt white pa want it that way. and so, on the one hand, we have large numbers of americans, the majority of americans who say they believe in school equality and they believe in integration. but then they make indidual choices that benefit their own children, that ensure that their own children will get access to the best public schools. they fight ainst efforts to take off things that screen children out, like exams to get into schools, portfolio reviews to get into schools. and so, even though we see these large kind of stemic inequalities, parents are holding those inequalities up with their individual choice and also fighting the systemic changes, as well. >> reporter: professor darity, let me follow upith you on that. this idea of individual accountability, when it comes to the economy, when it comes to systems that have been built over 400 years, how do individuals start to make decisions to dismantle them and make sure that those racist ideas are not perpetuated? >> so, i think individuals havto get into the process of supporting social policies that d make the structural changes in american life, that could alter the kinds o inequalities that we're talking about. it's also a question of what terms of supporting the kinds of social policies that we need to alter the circumstances. and, in particular, with respect to the racial wealth gap in the work that i've done with kirsten llen and the book that you mentioned, "from here to equality," we've argued that a program of reparations would be requiredo eliminate that huge racial wealth chasm, ana order of the provision of the $10 trillion to $1sotrillion and ces to native black americans. these resources would be required because we are in a present situation in which bnsck americans tute about 13% of the nation's population but only have 2.6% of the nation's wealth. black heads of households with a college degree have two-thirds of the net worth of white heads of households who never finished high scol. and this is clear evidence of the effects of-- the long-term cumulative eicffects of ams racial history that i mentioned earlier. >> reporter: dr. powell, there clearly, we're having this conversation right now largely because of policing and because of the life-and-death nature of policing for black american goe decision just tut and protest right now is a life-or- death decision. when you look at all of the protests that are growing, are now unfolding in everye state, what's your biggest concern? how do you tell someone whether or not they should participate in this moment? i do tnk we have to recognize there are some risks in going out to protest right now. we are still in a public health emergency. we are still in apandemic. so to that extent, protesters should absolutely be protecting themselves. this entire situation has unfolded around police and the excessive use of force. that means we should really be usrethinking, should you bg pepper spray? likely not. in a pandemiwhere the virus is spread through-- through ptrson- to-persosmission through droplets, pepper spray causes people to cough. tear gas causes people to cry and causes people to want to remove their masks. d so, these are some of the things that our own government considering.lawmakers should be even in this moment-- and i will say i think it's a privilege to be able to-- to think about separating the two of these moments together. the underlying golden thread, if you will, between covid-19 and the response we' seeing following the murder of george floyd, the golden thread that binds the two together is racism. and so, there will never be a ilconvenient moment, there never be a convenient time to begin the work of dismantling racism. and so, tthat point, you know, i say i thk that people have to weigh the odds on their own. they have to weigh the risks on their own and do recognize that we are still in it, inn emergency. and so, there are still risks to going out, but i do think thatos it'sble to do it safely. >> reporter: i thank all three of you very, very much for your time and for being with us. that's dr. lauren powell, the cool hannah jones, and professor thank you.rity. thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you. woodru: the past two weeks have been a wake-up call to many, but for ack americans, racism, bias and offensive behavior are blended into theirr lives, in torkplaces, in their communities. and as many them told us, it weighs on both them and their children. >> when i was nine years old, my father took away my water gun. gun because the police won'tater know that you're a little boy." ti i have spent the last week paying close att to the development out of minneapolis and obally, taken one-year-old son to the white house multiple times so that he uld, you know, feel , if not understand it. a lot of children get to e play offens life. you get to take risks. you get to overcome failurge yoto learn lessons the hard way. and i think black kids have to play defense first. >> this fear is real for us. it's not an illusion. we've been dealing with this alu of lives. >> you have to tone yoself down as a black person, just so white people can't be afraid of yo >> don't want to tense up every time i see a police car. and automatilly, my hands go to the top of my steering wheel. i want us to thrive, not just try to survive each day, try to survive each encounter. >> i come from a multiracial family. i have always felt ke-- and my parents-- i mean, in direct and indirect ways told me all throughout my childhood and even in my adult years, that i have to work twice rdas o prove myself. and it's not fair. can't make mistake like other people make mistakes because i b wi judged differently. i will experience consequences differently. >> people of crr color are alwas being told we have to be the one to forget. i want to know why? why do i have to forgive yoin when you co to hurt me? why do i have to forgive you when you continho to hurtse i love? why do i have to forgive you when you ntinue to make the ki i work with feel less than? i shouldn't have to porgiv forgu for that. >> woodruff: for african-american families, the challenges, the pain, and the outright exhaustion connected with this kind of behavior prent their own distinct burdens. special correspondent charlayne hunter gault talks with a father and his grown son aboutheir work over dades to create change. a.k.a. cleve-- is one of the-- iconic legends of the 1960s civil rights m bement. his soari sellers, is a former south carolina legislator whose recent book is cald "my vanishing country." thank you so much for joining joining me. it's great to see you after all lethese years. me start with you, cleve. based on your years of experience, this george floyd killing is nothing new, right? >> teabso. the murder of emmett till was lhe thing that i kind of developed my soc consciousness around. >> reporter: and, of course, emmett till was lynched tensibly r whistling at a white woman. and so, how did all of what you were experiencing dthe civil rights movement right on up through the time you yourself got shot in orangeburg while young people were demonstrating and fole men were k- how did that affect your advice to your son, bari, growing up? >> african-american men had to tell our sons about the survival skills. and we all had to tell them the protocol that they should follow in order for them not to get indignant about the name-calling by police officers and antagonisms by police officers so that they can get home ande could then litigate-- protest the actions of that particular officer. so, it became important for me to do that with all three of my children, one who was a daughter. driving at night in the blue light home and having to pull over in anrea that had lights and had some people around sot that you would isolated. and then end up like sandra bland. >> rorter: so, bakari, how did your father's advice impact you? >> well, it wasnvi as much the as it was the example that my father set. and i'm a product of the proverb, "it takes a village to raise a chil"in you knowy book, "my vanishing country," i talk about all of these people who were part of my proverbial village, and my father always took me to the memorials. he always took me to services. he let me have these-- sit at the adult tables and have these conversations with many of these hero. and i write-- and because it's so true-- that heroes walk among us. and so many of the lessons at were passed down to me, they were builtn the premisthat our history is more than just but instead, we h uphold. the names like ella baker, like fann lou hamer, like modjeska simkins and septima clark. and those lessons are the ones today.ing true, especially >> reporter: and you pass those along to your-- your children, as well? >> i have a 15-year-old daughter who just got her permit, and now she'll be driving. that black parentshave to haves with black children, that ewh parents don't have to have with their kds we're having today. i talked with her if a police you call 911 and go too ake sure well-lit area, because i don't want her to be sandra bland. ytdon't want her to be mistaken for ng. so, she has to watch her hands. i mean, at the end of the day, one of the things we need to many black folk dot the country, benefit of their humanity. and i'm petrified that one day there may be an officer who doe not see my daughter as being as being-- as being- anything but human. u know, in the george floyd case, you can't tell me that those officers saw george as being a human bng. they set on his neck for eight minutes. and that's the fear that i have of raising a black child, that her life will be cut short simply because of a fear, a paranoia, a lack of humanity or a lack of dignity, beckse she's a bl girl in this country. >> reporter: let me ask both of you, given the reaction, widespread reaction to the george floyd case, are you optimistic that things are finally going to change? i mean, i just heard you give a long list of things that have oing on with black children all these years. >> i think that, you blow, for thk lives matter, it's time to begin to bring people together and to organize folks and begin to put something in place that has some kind of-- of place that has some kind of-- of-- texture to it and some kind of framework to it. >>eporterar: and b so, how optimistic are you that this new wave of protests are going to change things in a very significant way? perhaps more than ipan th? >> i don't know if i can say that, but the biggest problem is that this has become a cycle that is perpetuated in this country. and let me also just push back slightly on the framing of the question, because i don't want about george floyd alone.his is this isn't. th is about george floyd. this is about breonna taylor. this is about ahmaud arbery. this about david mackenzie. and this is about systemic injustice and institutionalized racism that's been perpetuated this country for years upon years upon decades upon centuries. and to channel my father and h fannie ler, people are sick and tired of being sick and tired. and so, now, we're at the point now, where i'm-- i-- my job is to break that perpetual cycle. and i'm proud that people like taylor swift and carson wentzre and trevor le are coming out. >> reporter: so, yosound a little bit optimistic that this around the world--ust in from this country, but around the world now-- that's a big change from the past, isn't it? >> i don't know if it's a big change. let me just say that my father's generation captivated the world before. like, i don't really give people credit for showing up. i want to see the follow-through. and i hope that people are there, and i have faith that people wit be there. is will be new. this will have to be a new door that is opened. and, you know, i have three children and i'm going to remain on thijourney for truth and justice and peace, but i don't want to pass them down the same america that i have now. >> reporter: just very quickly to both of you as a final questio mn, hh of the follow-through is going to depend on voting? >> well, i think a lot of it is going to depend on voting, but there are going to be structural changes that are going to have to occ, . and i thike roy wilkins said, "how many coffins must-- must we walkehind before we can find justice and equality and peace and love?" >> reporter: so, i think i hear both of you saying what you used to say, we all used to say back in t day of the civil rights movement: "we've got to keep on keeping on." is that right? >> amen. "keep on keeping on." "no justice, no peace." >> reporter: thank you.ru >> woo: and thank you, charlayne. as we've heard throughout the program, there's a responsibility to move td meaningful asting change that all of us, especially white americans, have to address. many people have been asking for sources and ideas. on our web site, you can find ai of books, articles, podcasts, and videos aimed at helping all of us challenge our own biases and educating ourselves about institutional racism and the barriers that african americans still face every day. you can find all that at www.pbs.orgour. and that concludes our special, "race matters: america in crisis." we want to thank all those who shared their voices tonight, and we want to thank you for taking the time to listen along with us. our country has been rocked in the aftermath of one event in one city, but to heal and move forward as a nation, it will take many difficult conversations in every city and town, with as many of us engaged as possible. at the start of the pandemic, we came together as a country, andy taying at home, that unity now we have the chance to come together again to change lives and save them, too. i'm judy woodruff. for all of us at the pbs newshour, thank you. please stay safe and see you soon. captioning sponsored by et captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org jim brown: join us for 50 years with peter, pauand mary. it's an anniversary special featuring america's favorite folk group the soundtrack of our lives. fifty years with peter, paul and mary, on pbs. explore new worlds and new ideas through prrams like this. made available for everyone through contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you.

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