Dug deeper into this subject was that inside the nsa they think there may still be insider was were part of this. And we begun continue with the latest in politics with robert costa of the washington post. I have been in indiana recently, pennsylvania, new jersey, and virginia. And the voters there are noticeably still angry about the global economy. Not necessarily in love with President Trump politically. But they still have some of the grieveance that lead President Trump to be elected. So this idea that suburban voters are turning just on temperment or just on tweets, i dont see it yet in my reporting. Rose we conclude with cartoonist chris ware. The act of drawing is seeing, trying to see something and it puts new a completely different men tl state it puts you into a state of being in that moment for that specific moment and understanding reality in a way that adults are very, very good at not doing. We spend most of our lives kind of getting out of the way of things, trying to remember stuff, trying to get through the day. Certain regrets and problems, mistakes that we made either an hour before or years before come back to us. So we spend much of our time just in this sort of cloud of remembrance and anxiety that trying to live in that moment is a very difficult accomplishment, i think. Drawing encourages that more than anything. Rose sanger, costa and ware when we continue. Funding for charlie rose is provided by the following. Bank of america, life better connected. And by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. The nsa has been grappling with a massive cyberSecurity Breach over the past 15 months. The New York Times reports today that some of the agencys most Sensitive Information has been stolen by a group of expert hackers known as the shadow brokers. The paper describes the damage as an earthquake that has shaken the nsa to its core. David sang certificate the New York TimesNational Security correspondent. Hes one of the reporters who broke this story, he joins me now from boston, welcome. Great to be back with you. Here is the New York Times today. Deep Security Breach cripples nsa. Mysterious group steals powerful hacking weapons putting world in danger. So explain to me, please who did what to whom and what does it mean . Well, charl yea, this story really goes back to august of 2016, a month that you may remember we were all thinking about another hack. It was really when we discovered the depths of the russian hacking into the Democratic National committee and the release of emails and so forth. It was just the moment when the russia hack was beginning to gather steam. That same month this group called the shadow brokers who we didnt really understand then and really dont fully understand 15 months later began publishing what looked like very obscure computer code that they advertised as coming out of the deepest depths of the nsa, a group called the tail erred access Operations Unit. This is sort of the special forces of the nsa, the group that designs american attacks to get into foreign computer systems. The attack against iran to cripple their centrifuges, that was a tao or at least partly a tao operation. The attacks you and i have discussed before against north koreas missile program, that was partly a tao operation. The attacks against the islamic state. So this is the most Critical Group of cyberwarriors that we have. And it looked like they were beginning to hemorrhage many of their own tools. It probably needed the help of an insider, maybe several. And part of what we discovered as we dug deeper into this subject was that inside the nsa they think there may still be insiders who are part of this. They also suspect that its the russians who are playing the central role directly or indirectly in distributing this material in public to cause precisely the kind of chaos that was involved here. What we found also interesting about this is that these lost weapons as we reported before, were wrapped up in weapons that the North Koreans and the russians later designed and shot out against allies who were partners. So the want to cry attack that crippled the British Health system was a north korean designed weapon that made use of what was stolen from the nsa. And the attack on ukraine over the summer was also based on a set of weapons that were stolen from the nsa. So charlie its a little like losing a tomahawk missile and having parts of it shot back to an ally. So who, what do they think who do they think the shadow brokers are. They think theyre a group of Hacking Group that may be loosely affiliated with the russians. Rose i got that. Or at least had some russian money. But you know, they they speak at least when they write their ransom demands and so forth, they use a sort of broken english that seems to be an effort to sort of cloak who they are. And yet at the same time, they seem to have a deep familiarity with the american system. And there are a lot of cultural references and political references in their demands that make it clear that if theyre not americans, then they know a lot about americans. Rose who is jake williams. Hes a former tao operator who my colleagues scott shane found. And who told scott that he, after he had left the tail erred access Operations Unit had written some about shadow brokers on a company blog, a company that he had help found. And suddenly shadow brokers was coming after him, outing him as a former member of the tao, accurately. So they had some insider knowledge there. And then he found himself looking at code that had references in it that clearly indicated that they knew about operations that he worked on. So they were in pretty deep. He speaks on the record. Rose he says in fact whoever wrote this, talking about hacking him, eithers with a well placed insider or had stolen a lot of operational data. Here is what some of the commentary including the New York Times in your piece says today. This was much worse than snowden. Not only did they take the code words, they took the code. Thats right. And that is the essence of this. When snowden released his data it was incredibly damaging am but it was code words and descriptions of operations, whether it was breaking into the chinese leadership Communication System or whether it was breaking into Angela Merkels cell phone. This actually releases the real code that is used, which tells you how much the nsa had to go back and rip up and start again. Now in the world of cyber, you often have to rip up code and start again because your target shifts and they change. What works against the north Korean Missile last year may not work against it this year because the designs of the missiles have changedment but in this case, they lost many of their signature codes and they even lost some of the manuals about how to go use them because those had been published as well. So when you describe this as damaging to the world, what does that mean . If you are relying, charlie, on the United States and its allies to be able to conduct the kind of cyberoperation that we think might keep the peace, whether it is disabling north Korean Missile test or going after a country trying to get a nuclear weapon, or trying to get inside russian network, then you have to believe that this is incredibly damaging to the United States. But it also raises, charlie, a much deeper question. We focused a huge amount of our effort in the past decade to building up american cyberoffensive cap abilities. And we have done that with considerable success. And i think its fair to say that the United States is probably the best at the in the world right now, although the lead may not be a very long one, at using cyberweapons in an incredibly subtle way for both destruction and for espionage. What we havent done as well is protect what we have got. And this explains to you why it is that in the cyberworld its entirely possible that you can lose your lead overnight for the same reason that General Electric or westinghouse could lose an Industrial Design overnight if it is stolen out of their system. Rose is there some worry that were losing our lead . Well, there was worry that we were losing our lead even without shadow brokers. The thing about cyberis its relatively cheap to start up. You dont need rare materials, no uranium or plu tonium needed in this case, thank you. You just need some very smart talent and an ability to figure out how to roam around the networks of the world and how to crack into the ones that are blocked to you. Now that takes a lot of work, time and attention. It is not especially expensive. And so it is that the North Koreans prove pretty good at this. They did the sony attack. They did that wanna cry attack. They got 81 million out of the bangladesh irtral bank but for a type graph kal error they would have gotten a billion. So if north korea can do it, you got to think a lot of other places can do it the iranians are big players, Eastern European countries have a lot of talent in this territory as well. So this is as we have talked about before, the new area in which countries compete and conflict without starting a war so big or at least they hope that there is retaliation. But now the stakes are rising with every single year. And this is becoming now with, if russia is playing in the election space, the electric power space, and now the nsa space, it is becoming a new area of superpower conflict as well. There are also reports that they are shadow brokers, being then, are selling it. Well, theyre trying to sell it. Interestingly they had to put on a fire sale the other day where they cut their prices. And that may be that people are discovering that some of this data is outoutdated or they wonder if they pay their money will they really get the best stuff they have. But that is an element of ransom ware, you know, people take a look at this and try to sell it. Its also a way sometimes of diverting attention. If somebody is trying to sell something, you may think theyre in it for financial gain when in fact that may be to throw investigators off the scent. Before i leave you, think for a moment about what progress or lack of progress the president might have made in his trip to asia, meeting with those countries that he met with, especially xi jinping where he was seated rather well. Did he gain everything in the effort to stop north korea . I dont think he gained much, charl yea. Well have to wait until we hear about what took place in the actual conversations. I think the trip started well and went down hill over some period of time. He had a good start in japan where clearly his relationship with Prime Minister abb is the strongest relationship he has among the asian allies and maybe one of the strongest in the world. I thought he gave a ver solid speech in front of the considerrian, South Korean Parliament it was a speech that you could have imagined george bush or barack obama giving about the humanrights abuses in north korea. And about the threat of their nuclear program. It was very much within the tradition of american presence. Then when we got to china it wasnt clear to me that despite all of the pomp and circumstances of how he was received, that he actually got the chinese to do anything that would truly change the tra jectory of what the North Koreans are doing. Im not sure that is within the chinese power. And meanwhile the other countries he was meeting got together and approved the transpacific partnership. So going ahead without us, i thought we looked pretty isolated. By the end of the trip he was in the philippines with a philippine leader who is responsible, we believe, for thousands of extra judicial killings in the in his effort to run out the drug trade, that had been used for many other purposes. And there was no public discussion of the human rights implications of this, even though he was sitting in the palace of a major american ally. Rose thank you, david. Thank you, charlie. Rose back in a moment. Stay with us. Im pleased to have bob costa here. Five women as you no he have accused alabama senator yal candidate roy moore of sexual assault. In a press conference this morning Senate Majority leader Mitch Mcconnell said moore should step aside from the race. On capitol hill house and Senate Republican negotiations on tax reform earlier today. S five country tour of asia from later this week. And over the weekend he spoke privately with russian president vladimir putin. President trump says he believed putin when he said he absolutely did not meddle in the 2016 election. For all of that we turn to Robert Costa National political reporter for the washington post, moderator of Washington Week on pbs and its always great to have him here in the studio. Welcome. Great to be with you. We talk about all of that. But let me begin with the Senate Candidate from alabama, roy moore, where does that stand . What a headache for the republican party. Theyre not really sure what to do with this. You have roy moore with now five women coming out with accusations, a new one today on monday in new york, i was there as Gloria Aldred the attorney spoke with her. Then Beverly Young down in alabama made new accusations about roy moore. But he is defiant in the senate race. He doesnt want to leave. So they are con tell plating inside of the white house today and on capitol hill what to do, can you have a writein candidate. Can you maybe even not seat moore if he wins the seat outright on december 12th. Theyre really not sure what to do he has the base with him in alabama. Rose could he win . He certainly could win. Rose not withstanding all this he could winness this is a state won overwhelmingly by President Trump last year. Doug jones the democrat, a prosecutor, respected, inching up in the polls, he made this race competitive but this is still a deep red state. Rose what is the president saying or doing. I was talking to people insood the white house today and they say its difficult for them to make a decision politically inside of the white house because the president is in asia. And he hasnt made a Firm Decision im told about how to handle roy moore in light of this latest accusation. Theyre waiting for the president to take a firmer stand. Rose how do they consider this president doing on this tour of asia beginning in japan and then going on to china . I mean talk about the chapters of this trip. That is how they think about it. There were before tweets, after tweet, before tweets they felt good, they felt he was on mesessage. Rose off to a good start in japan. He built a relationship with abb, they had a krozy airport, they articulated Different Things on north korea and trade but he never stepped too far outside of the lines that they had a he grood to. They thought it was going swimmingly and then the president when in vietnam decides to start tweeting and showing his wrath about a variety of different issues, especially about russia and its been a challenge for them to say the least. Rose exactly what happened in the conversation with putin. I have looked at it a number of times. What was he saying, was he saying i believe putin believes what he says or was he saying at the first glance i believe what putin is saying. He is saying both. He says i believe what putin is saying more than anything. Rose. It is serious because he made a statement later saying he now accepts the Intelligence Communitys conclusion. Rose which is different from what putin is saying. But context matters. Because the president believes that the russia investigations and he growses about this privately, are about the election last year. About nullifying the election last year. So whenever he makes these statements about putin, its not just about the context of the conversation that those two lead ares had, it is about the context of the broader conversation in the battle he feels hes waging on russia. One of the reasons we walk back the statement, questioning the Intelligence Community is he does have a lot of faith in mike pompeo in fact there is not a bigger kf dant ne this administration than the director of the cia mike pompeo. He gives the president the daily brief, some what unusual for the cia direct tore do that. He has built this relationship as someone who channels the base with President Trump. Hes been floated as a potential successor to Rex Tillerson as secretary of state. And so because pompeo, the president has walked it backment that doesnt mean the president is show happy now with the Intelligence Community. He Still Believes as steve bannon and others used to whisper to him that there is a deep state aligned against him. Rose he says i believe these guys what is what he basically said. His people. Rose tax reform, what is going to happen . The senate