And therefore the future, that people want to take comfort from the past, you want to anchor yourself, you want to know how did i get here, what is tera firma for me and the ultimate tera firma the ultimate place to find solid ground is within yourself. Rose we conclude this evening with the look at the netflix film the mierowitz story, starring Dustin Hoffman, adam sand already and elizabeth marvel. Im interested also with family mythologies and how families, starting with the parents invent a kind of mythology. I mean either consciencely or unconsciously. In this case it is about what makes a true artist. Rose katy tur, henry louis gates, jr. And the mierowitz stories when we continue. Funding for charlie rose is provided by the following. Bank of america, life better connected. And by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Rose katy tur is here. She is a correspondent for nbc news. Sheses also an anchor for msnbc. She spent more than 500 days on the 2016 president ial campaign trail. She covered the can candidacy of donald trump a long the the future president often singled her out for criticism, her new memoir unbelievable documents that experience during this historic election. Im pleased to have katy tur back at this table, welcome. Hi, charlie. Rose its great to have you here. Tell me, you havent seen the president since the election. Not in person. I see him every day on television but mot in person since the election. Rose what is it. Since inauguration. Rose since inauguration, i want to am can back to the campaignment tell me what people are saying about him today. There are questions about what exactly is going on inside the white house. What does the president do every day. Is he as fully invested in the day to day operations of governing as he needs to be. Why is he getting so tis tracted by kabl news still and we are so many months after he was ig and raise inaugurated, the president of the United States and also has he lost a step. Gaib sherman was out with a report in vanity fair about this. And it essentially said what i have been hearing from my sources within the trump orbit, people in and out of the white house, that there seems to be Something Different about him today than during the campaign. Hi one person read the become and ask me, do you feel like he has lost a step since the campaign. Do you think something has changed. Rose somebody asked you that or you asked that question. Somebody asked me that after having read the book. Somebody within the trump world rrs because you few him during the campaign. Yeah. Rose do you think he has lost a step . I think that he has always been a combative person, hes always been the type of person who will counterpunch when he feels like hes under attack. During the campaign he very much reveled if going to these rallies and hearing the roar of the crowd. And that would combat some of the, what he felt to be negativity coming from the media. Now he doesnt have those rallies to feed off of any longer. Now it is, i think within his mind and within the white house, it feels like a daily onslawt of negative headlines. The issues that, many of them are of his own making because he responds and only furthers and deepens any given controversy. Rose you saw the power of those rallies. You are one of the reporters who i know thought he would win. Yeah. Rose and it was because of what you saw at those rallies. You saw what people were willing to do in order to see donald trump. They really connected with him. They really felt like he was somebody that would fight for them as opposed to all of these politicians in washington without seemed to say one thing on the cam paper trail and do another when, after they were elected. Donald trump was willing to say anything. He wasnt politically correct. He wasnt going to try and win their votes with empty promises. They believe that he would go to washington to do what he said he would do. But not even that. They dont hold him accountable for what he said he would do. If he went to washington and decided to reverse course on any number of issues, i would argue that many of his supporters would stay with him. Because ultimately what they wanted more was the man and not the policies. One quick anecdote because he didnt really have that many policies beyond were going to build a wall and were going to have extreme vetting or the muslim ban or were going to lower tax rates, broad strokes. Rose the iran deal. It wasnt uanced but i was speaking to one man outside of a rally in ohio and i asked why do you like donald trump. And the man said hes going to build a wall. I said what if he dnt build a wall. His response was its okay, i trust his judgement. Well, he often, didnt he say that i could shoot somebody on fifth avenue. An i would still have pie supporters. Rose my supporter was still support me. Thats how they felt about him. They were rabidly thuk about enthusiastic about donald trump, so much so that it wasnt just the folks that went to the rally and felt like they were unleashed in this space, they can unleash their demons. They can yell as loud as they could. They were free to be as crude as donald trump was being from the stage. It was people outside of the rallies as well. People that wouldnt necessarily advertise that they were donald trump supporters. Wouldnt go around with a make America Great again hat, wouldnt tell their neighbors. But people i get into conversations with on airplanes, cab drivers, cashiers at restaurants. Just anybody that we could talk to. And a lot of them after some pressing would admit yeah, i know, i really like him. And i dont think its an easy thing for me to admit to my fiends or my neighbors, so the polling, i would argue, wasnt quite as accurate as it normally would have been because pem were going to say one thing and then they got into the voting booth all alone in that booth and my producer and i imagined that a lot of folks would pull the lever for trump. Rose one of the great things that happened to you was being a Foreign Correspondent, all of a sudden are you back in new york for a peting and they say how would you like to cover donald trump, essentially changed your life. It totally changed my life. I moved to be done. I was planning on a four year stint overseas, maybe the rest of my life, frankly. Its a big world and that is a dream job. You get to travel everywhere. Rose Foreign Correspondent for a network. Dream job, dream job, the only job that i ever truly wanted when i got into the news business. Only job that i said i would allow to take me out of new york city or even los angeles. Rose did you come here for a visit. So i came for a visit. And i walk into the newsroom. You have to remind the bosses that you are alive alive when are you overseas because it can get slow, uni vision dropped donald trump, after he announced. Masseys had dropped donald trump, nbc dropped the univision, the Miss Universe pageant and they said we need somebody to cover this story. Who is around. And someone on nightly news said katy tur is just standing around. So i was just standing around and i got at signment of a lifetime. Rose this is the subject of your book, called unbelievable, my front row seat to the Craziest Campaign in american history. Why was it crazy . Because he defied political gravity at every turn. Because he said things nobody else would have been able to say in that position. Because he allowed other people to say things that they would never normally say. There were no rules for this campaign. There was no boundary, there was no tab, there was no taboo, no line that ton done all truch want will tok cross. Rose he was doing something right, obvious least because he won. Yeah. Rose beyond the fact that he had his own constituency. David brooks wrote this about him, it has to be admitted that donald trump is doing exactly what he was elected to do. He was not elected to be a legislative president. He never showed any real interest in policy during the campaign. He was elected to be a cultural president. He was elected to shred the dominant American Culture and to give voice to those who felt voiceless in that culture. Hes doing that every day. And i read about that in the beginning of the book, in the prolog of the book. I talk about who was a trump voter and how they might have been feeling. People who feel like theyre screaming in a crowded room full of other people wearing ear phones. People who you know, their bills were spiking but their paychecks were not. People whose food is full of chemicals, whose medicine cabinets are full of pills. This feeling that america had passed them by. They go into their local mainstream street and the shops are boarded up. There are Big Box Stores instead of mom and pops. There arent young families in the neighborhood. Rose and the jobs had moved away. The jobs had moved away. Rose here is what dave said too, interesting, what is troubling to me, he says those who were the targets of his a saul, the establishment, seemed to have no clue about what is going on. When they feel the most righteous like this past weaken they are actually losing and in the most peril. And he bose on to explain why he thinks that is happening. It is essentially teu. There is a sense in terms of the establishment, a bewilledderment about donald trump. I think thats right. And i think if you pick up this book and you read it you will have a better understanding of i think its he a easy to forget what happened on the campaign. Its easy to just white wash it in your brain and to say it was just nothing but a political anomaly an can never happen again. And how dare donald trump come in and not do the things we expect the president to do. Go back and read and get the day to day of what happened and will you see. Ros and as you suggest, art of the deal where he talks about i understand and i feed peoples fantasies. Absolutely. Truthful hyperbole is what he says. Jimmy breslynn said it best. He gives people a razzledazzle. He is good at convincing you that he is special. That he is unique. And that he is someone who can do something that no one else can. Which is what he did on the campaign trail. He would stand up on a podium and say i alone can fix it. And people bought into that because they bought into this idea of who donald trump was, this deal maker. This unparalleled businessman. This saf ant when it comes to success and part of the reason they bought into that is because of his stipt on the apprentice. Rose tell me how that followed. Because he was a salesman. Hes with a salesman. And he presented himself on the apprentice as the ultimate businessman, the hirer and firer. And the decider. And he knew who would do well in any given job. He was able to, they would say to may, hes going to hire the right people. How do you know hes going to hire the right people. Because i saw him do it on the apprentice. He did a very good job of building the mythology around donald trump. Hes always done this, charlie. Youve known him for decades. He did this in the 80s and the 90s, in new york with the tabloids. He sold himself. He would call up reporters and tell them donald trump cant lose. Donald 2ru6r7 is bigger than life. I will coming ba. And the reporter was buy into it and report that and it would create this. Rose he believed that or he believed it was important at least for you to believe that. I think they are one and the same. I think he believes, he believes what he is saying. Rose did they think he was going to win. No, up until that day, Kellyanne Conway was on with chuck todd on november 8th blaming the rnc. Blaming the gop for not supporting dn ald trump, their internal polls did not have him winning. A couple people on the campaign thought the way some of the reporters including me did which was that this enthusiasm has got to show up. And this enthusiasm is not being captured correctly by the polls. So there was a sense. Rose that was their core believe. A core belief. Rose he believed those rallies said where america was. I think he went on and off about whether or not he with win. And towards the end i think he started to feal like was definitely not going to win. That is when you saw him go out and talk about these conspiracy theories that the big banks and Hillary Clinton and the liberals and the media, and other shady elites. Rose he was refused to eliminate the idea that he would protest the results if he didnt like them. Yeah. He was setting himself up for if he doesnt win, then there was fraud. Rose did he win the election or did she lose it . . I think its a combination 689 i think that its hard to say this close to it. I think we need a lot more distance from it. But for as much as people like donald trump, people hated Hillary Clinton. Rose and the con stit wednesdays that elected pim him, the imiks of his doar supporters but he had to have more than that. He did. Rose the political question for me is the more than that, are they still with him . That is a really good question. And there are polls that indicate that that could be breaking here and there. The people who held their nose and decided to vote for donald trump because they didnt like Hillary Clinton or they were worried that she might be under federal investigation, where do they stand now. That is what we should be watching out for. I think its very depend ent on who the democrats put up for 2020. Rose there is speculation, someone quoted, not sure whether he said it or not but he was quoted by saying by steve bannon he thought it was a 30 chance he woon survive the first term. Are people speculating on that . You know, when i asked. Rose when you talk of the 25th amendment. When i ask folks of inn that world what they think of donald trump and his chances for reelection, whether he would run for reelection, will he remain throughout this term, and the question is generally i dont know. Any, all omgs are in the air. I would be surprised if donald trump walked away from this willingly. Just as i thought it was inconceivable that he would have walked away from the campaign willingly when the access Hollywood Tape broke when everybody was telling him to. I dont think he wants to be seen. Rose everybody but steve bannon. Yeah, i done think he wants to be seen as a loser or as a quitter. I dont know if steve bannon was trying to fire a shot over the bow that says listen, get on board with me, get on board with who i think you should have in place in 2018, my can the did because of the democrats come in and win the house, you will be impeached. Rose how did you hear back from the campaign when were you singled out, holler to the crowd there is katy tur in the back. You know, you wave it off. You shake it off. You dont worry about it. I remember thinking what is the point of this. Rose what was the point of it . Well, it is a lot of factors, i was the first correspondent to cover the campaign full time. I was the first person from a Mainstream Media outlet, from nbc news, of all outlets, to say we think you are a serious political candidate, a player. You have a chance here. So he would see me at rallies for months on end before anybody else would show up. We were going to places all around the country where i was the only face that he recognized in the crowd. Because other reporters werent on that beat full time. And so we developed a rapport. He often would come back and talk to the reporters after a rally or before a rally immediately and i would get my questions answered all the time. So when he needed a media foil to represent the lying scum press that he would call out from the stage, he knew that i would be back there. He knew he could safely say katy tur, shes back there and everybody would be able to turn around and find me. There were times where it felt uncomfortable and threatening. Certainly the muslim ban day in south carolina. Rose what happened that day. So this is december 7th, 2015. And just recently a couple from San Bernardino went up and shot an office party. President obama the night before gave a speech on terrorism and donald trump comes out the feks day and announces he wants a muslim ban. And he is saying that the Obama Administration is not vetting people properly. Theyre letting terrorists come in and your muslim neighbors are hiding them for you. They are building bombs in your living room, they are out to get you, your livers are at risk. The majority of Republican Voters most feared being the vek tim of a terrorist attack. And donald trump was saying the media was complicit in this because they are not reporting it. Theyre in the telling you that the Obama Administration isnt being is being lax with the borders. So in this room of people who are waiting for done alt trump to officially announce that he doesnt want any muslims to come into the country, this room of people where we couldnt find a Single Person who thought it was a bad idea, he starts go after the press. And he singles me out. He says little katy, shes back there. He points may out in the crowd. And the whole room, thousands of people, turn around and yell at me at once. Stand on their chairs to boo me. Rose turn towards you. Turn towards me. Rose and start booing. Booing and pointing and calling me names. And it was threatening. Rose and you were you were feeling what . In the moment i remember. Rose fear. In the moment i thought to myself, smile and wave. Rose stay cool. So i smiled and waved. Because if they are intimidating you or if they think you are scared, then its worse. And so i did a live shot and another live shot and there were strag ellers that were waiting behind the press pen and my phone is blowing up with frantic messages if my mother hoping that im safe. And messages from my bosses hoping the same thing. And from fellow journalists on twitter, coming to my defense. And i finished my live shot and we think its a good idea to get out of there. And a trump staffer finds me and says these guys are going to walk you out. And it was two secret service agents. Rose you have been asked what question you would like to ask him and you have said why dont you tell the truth. What do you think the answer is to that question . Why doesnt he tell the truth . Because the truth is not in his favor. Rose in anyway. So when elys he knows he is lying. I done know how he couldnt know that he did not hav