Judi dench. There she was in her 80s, she says all her friends are dying, and still the weight of sovereignty on her shoulders and getting more difficult every day. God knows we feel it at our ages, more and more difficult every day to have to carry out her duties. And then quite suddenly this young man turns up, and that feeling that has obviously always been in her, that kind of huge zest for not perhaps for life but for enjoying somebodys company, at ease from everybody else. Suddenly, it was reawakened. Rose ian bremmer, zanny minton beddoes, Stephen Frears and Judi Dench Dame Judi dench when we continue. Rose funding for charlie rose has been provided by the following and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Rose leaders from around the world gather today for the opening debate of the 72n 72nd United Nations general assembly. In the most anticipated speech to have the session. President trump addressed a global forum for the first time. In his 40 minute speech, trump threatened to totally destroy north korea and called iran a rogue nation. The United States has done very well since election day last november 8th. The stock market is at an alltime high, a record. Unemployment is at its lowest level in 16 years, and because of our regulatory and other reforms, we have more people working in the United States today than ever before. We meet at a time of both immense promise and great peril. It is entirely up to us whether we lift the world to new heights or let it fall into a valley of disrepair. The United States will forever be a great friend to the world and especially to its allies, but we can no longer be taken advantage of or enter into a onesided deal where the United States gets nothing in return. The United States has great strength and patience, but if it is forced to defend itself or its allies, we will have no choice but to totally destroy north korea. Rocket man is on a Suicide Mission for himself and for his regime. It is an outrage that some nations would not only trade with such a regime but would arm, supply and financially support a country that imperils the world with nuclear conflict. The iranian government masks a corrupt dictatorship behind the false guise of a democracy. It has turned a wealthy country with a rich history and culture into an economically depleted rogue state whose chief exports are violence, bloodshed and chaos. The iran deal was one of the worst and most onesided transactions the United States has ever entered into. Frankly, that deal is an embarrassment to the United States, and i dont think youve heard the last of it, believe me. We cannot abide by an agreement if it provides cover for the eventual construction of a nuclear program. And above all, irans government must stop supporting terrorists, begin serving its own people and respect the sovereign rights of its neighbors. Rose the president also said that the United States was prepared to take further action on venezuela. Joining me to talk about all this, ian bremmer, president of the eurasia group, and zanny minton beddoes, she is the editorinchief of the economist. I am pleased to have them both back at this table. Welcome. Thank you. Rose the president s speech. What did you think . At one level, it was vintage trump. This is sort of what you would expect. The great rocket man is on a Suicide Mission, totally destroy it. Its not the typical u. N. Speech, not the kind of speech that audience is used to. Having said that, if you compare it to his Campaign Speeches or inauguration speech, i think he was less bellicose and America First as one might have expected. On the campaign he said the u. N. Was a disaster. Today he said it was an investment worth making. Even though the u. S. Paid a lot more than every other country. In many ways, it didnt go down i think the Swedish Foreign minister said wrong speech, wrong time, wrong out yens. But if you compare it to trump on the campaign trail or at home, this wasnt particularly surprising or out of the ordinary. Rose ian . If trumps speech to the join session of congress was an a and lets say riyadh his First International speech was an a minus this was a b or b plus. I agree, there are a few bits the media will have its hair lit on fire about but in general this was a wellread, wellcrafted speech. They didnt have the steve bannon economic nationalism, or the identity politics you got in warsaw, but you got a lot of steve miller on iran and north korea. Rose north korea is understandable but to take off like he did on iran. They have clearly been projecting they have been getting ready for this some time. Rose for riyadh. Exactly. I think the bigger issue is the United Nations is an organization formed by the americans in our image. Its our values, liberal democracy, universal human rights, its things we stood for and got our allies behind us. There have been president s who have had challenges with the u. N. Historically, but trump is sort of antithetical to the u. N. , right. He doesnt support the values. In fact, he thinks valuebased alliances allow our allies to treat us like patsies, take advantage of us and make us pay for things that we otherwise wouldnt be actually willing to pay. To have someone like that who is truly a unilateralist who says this is all about sovereignty deliver that on the u. N. Stage, thats bigger turn than the north korea or iran stuff. Rose fair enough. I think whats interesting, kudos to steve miller for trying but not succeeding rose we assume. But it was written, there was an attempt to remake history to suggest that actually the u. N. Had always been a place for benign nationalism and thats what the u. N. Was all about and in some sense i listen to it and say wait a minute does he actually know what the u. N. Is founded on . If you listen to president macron today whose speech was about multilaterallism, that was never uttered by the president , and the president gave a vision of the u. N. I suspect nobody in that audience recognized. Rose he defined America First as being sovereignty, security and prosperity, and then right after that he said, look, weve got some problems that threaten us all and we need to Work Together on those problems. Thats the multilateral part of it. Yes, but we need to Work Together and its all about putting our nation first and ourselves first, and his vision of what the u. N. Is about is a kind of group of countries that come together and, you know, perhaps try and solve problems where he thinks problems are to be solved whether iran or north korea. But there is nothing about the brutal internationalist order so many people think the u. N. Stands for. You find problems that are big and if you can come together on transaction and engage and frankly on north korea that trump approach has borne fruit. 15 countries sitting around a table as round as this but bigger agreeing to move unprecedented levels of sanctions against the north korean regime. The Trump Administration deserves credit for that and so does kim jong un for forcing it to happen but thats different than talking about what the u. N. Is for. The u. N. Is for trying to stop wars from happening. The u. N. Is trying to build a better planet like unicef. He said the u. N. Was like a possie of cowboys going after the bad guys. Rose is he wrong when he says a country should act in their own interest is this. No, hes not wrong about that, but i think the general review of the american the postwar order was it was in americas interests to set up an International Order of institutions and rules and depends on what you mean by a countrys enlightened selfinterest. The view trump has is right here, right now, this country, this situation. Rose let me give you an example fiduciary responsibility, you can say youre a captive industry, you say i have is it fiduciary responsibility to maximize shareholder return this quarter and ill do everything possible, ill be like mack the knife,ly do everything i can. Or you can say my fiduciary responsibility is to be a steward of this company for all the people who invested over the long run. Trumps definition of stewardship in the United States is the former. Its the fiduciary duty of someone who understands real estate deals. Sometimes and maybe with iran that would be okay, but climate change, thats where this transactional approach is short. He looks at one deal and says this is not in our interest, were out, whereas the broader multilaterallism in the u. N. Epitomizes thats the best thing thats come up. Rose two ideas over the weekend, maybe the United States may be relooking at the paris accord. H. R. Mcmaster suggested thats possible in this weekend interview. Same thing about suggesting also they wouldnt necessarily withdraw from the iran nuclear deal. I think certainly the latter is plausible and possibly the former but the interesting thing is and there is clearly a move from a lot of bombast at the beginning of the administration, creating uncertainty, what was going to happen, what was the unilateralist America First approach. Amongst the u. N. Delegates in the world broadly, theres a sense that actually there is not as much dangerous stuff to it as we feared. But people arent quite certain and no ones really sure because the transactional twitterbound president , no ones quite sure where hes going next or whats happening next. So i agree with you, in reality, the change in u. S. Position has been much less dramatic than one might have expected seven, eight months ago, but some of the uncertainty creates its own damage. So i think if youre outside the u. S. You worry about whether you can rely on the u. S. Now. And i take on the iran issue, certainly. Which is that trump has said on many occasions that this is a horrible deal, were bamboozled, swindled, need to get out of it, the iranians are cheating. He particularly hated having to certify that the iranians have so far been living up to the deal. Even though the state Department Certified it he said well theyre really not, not the spirit and probably not even the reality. Behind the scenes, i have heard that the white house is trying to come up with a mechanism whereby they dont certify but they actually pull out of the deal and allow trump to say see we need to be doing this. But the french, saudis, israelis behind the scenes are telling trump, yeah, yeah, bad deal but dont pull out of this deal because if you do everybody else is sticking with it and well be in a worse place. I think the Trump Administration understands that. Rose do you think thats the reason theyre moving to not pulling out. Yes. Rose because the allies dont want them to . Unlike other things, trump understands he doesnt know what hes doing. When trump vonning for president hes like n. A. T. O. Is obsolete. He gives an interview after hes president saying im committed to n. A. T. O. And the rest. He said, look, back then as a businessman no one would talk to me about n. A. T. O. , ive changed. Ive never seen trump admit he doesnt know anything Ability Health care or taxes before or even trade, but on Big National Security issues, i do think that hes more willing to let the generals kind of do it and, frankly, that should give some comfort to a lot of the allies that arent so sure about the unrelenting tweets and the fact that we dont really have an adult, you know the other interesting thing about this is we should all welcome an administration more normal or less dramatically different. But outside of the u. S. , particularly amongst countries and cons that have traditionally been allies, the trump brand is now such a toxic brand it is domestically much harder for those governments to avertly be seen to be too close to trump. If germany now in the german election, Angela Merkel is almost certainly going to win next weekend, but the chief guy on the opposition has been hammering her for saying shes too close to the president. So there is that way in which america under President Trump has become part of domestic politics in allied countries in particular which is not helping. Mexico, south korea. I mean, this is becoming a serious problem. Rose in terms of countries simply dont have credibility the president doesnt have credibility and they have trouble believing him . Yes, and its affecting the politics inside those countries. You can, as an opposition member to a government, you can use as a club to help yourself the fact that youre more antitrump and more antiamerican than this president whose actually really caught in with the establishment and just doing it to line his own politics and whatever the reason happens to be. Licies actually end up being if much less America First isolationist than people feared. And i think youre right in that the administration is becoming more normal and, charlie, you are, too, and less dramatic in its changes. But the damage politically amongst allies is already done in that Public Opinion is antitrump. Macron was hit hard, one of the reasons his popularity plunged because the french said what are you doing inviting the president over on bastille day. And trump says he wants to have a parade like the shoafts and North Koreans. Rose where are you on north korea. We have statements by nicki haley who says their running out of rope, i think its fantasy land. I dont believe we have realistic military options against the North Koreans given our allies in the region and what we would be exposing them to. But i do believe the process of trying to coral the largest possible group all of which see north korean option antithetical to their own progress in a world thats fragmented and cert gutierrez made it clear today, as fragmented as the world is, its almost impossible to get a 150 vote on anything in the Security Council and were consistently doing it on north korea and that the not because of trump, its because everybody recognizes this is the only process that has a glimmer of working. Rose what do the 15 votes suggest if sanctions dont work . They suggest we maintain the sanctions, eventually we probably start trying to engaging and enticing them with carrots. Eventually, what happens with north korea is we live with the fact they have Nuclear Power as with pakistan rose nonproliferation in japan and. Not so much. As long as the americans are continuing to provide a feasible and believable Nuclear Umbrella with troops, i dont think the japanese are very opposed to nuclear weapons, but i do think that the potential to do a deal with north korea is not until the North Koreans feel like theyve hit enough technological capacity that theyre safe from any plausible first strike attack from americans. I think thats right and i agree with you that its probably less dangerous than we have been worrying about in the last few weeks particularly, but that said im perhaps not as sang sanguin. I do worry even now about the possibility of miscalculation. I dont think there is a military solution, i dont think there will be any sort of big preemptive strikes but perhaps as sanguine as it sounds, there are people who say we cannot get there and need to let them act. Rose do you think the North Koreans do this because they dont take the u. S. Threats seriously and the Administration May be accurate when it says, you know, we have to do something, Say Something to make them to get their attention that were serious about this . I have no idea. Ive never met kim jong un and im not at all a korea specialist but it seems to me that there are several things going on. One is that this is an individual whose entire family for generations now has built itself up in part in opposition to th graceiation of the United States. Its a huge its not just that they will stop if they feel that the United States is taking them seriously. I think its a very big part of what north korea is which is why the idea that they will be stopped from reaching Nuclear Capacity seems to me to be somewhat unlikely. We have to remember allies, too. I thought it was very interesting the last time the North Koreans tested a missile that went over through japanese airspace you know here in the United States, biggest headlines the next morning. In japan i was looking at n. H. K. , their lead show, and there were six top topics. It wasnt one of the six. And i think that, you know, the fact is that the japanese and the South Koreans have been living with a north korea that has the ability to decimate them for a long time now, an now that their principal ally the United States is paying attention, they say wait a second, you can do that, but if you have the about to hit the United States we have to take action, that doesnt