Who talks about harper lees new book, go set a watchman. I think its a very good book. The part of me that set out to be an english professor before i got kidnapped by newspapering thinks this is a very significant moment in terms of literary scholarship, and ill tell you why here we get to see the growth process of a writer starting out and feeling her way toward the writer she wanted to be toward the story that she wanted to tell, then abandoning it and giving ate more polished expression. Rose we conclude this evening with Charles Kaiser. His new book is about courage at the time of the French Resistance during world war ii. Whats important to remember is that in the two days after the normandy invasion, there were 1,000 acts of sabotage carried out by the resistance to prevent the germans from being able to reinforce the troops after the invasion. And de gaulle and eisenhower says in his memoirs over and over again how grate offful he was. Rose copeland, raines and kaiser when we continue. Rose funding for charlie rose has been provided by rose additional funding provided by and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Rose Misty Copeland is here. Last month, she became the first africanamerican woman to be named a principal dancer in american ballet theaters 75year history. The news came a few days after her new york debut swan lake. Copeland began her ballet training at the unusually late age of 13 and has overcome numerous obstacles to achieve the highest honors in dance and become a rare pop culture celebrity. Here is a look at her recent profile on cbs 60 minutes. Misty copeland will tell you shes never more arrive than when shes on stage on her toes her athleticism and grace on full display. She can leap through the air she can spin on a dime. She can make you believe shes a swan by a lake. You feel comfortable up there. Yes. Something happens when you feel that energy and excitement from the audience and you do, i dont know four pirouettes, you jump higher than you ever have and its just this really magical thing that happens in those moments. cheers and applause rose i am pleased to have Misty Copeland at this table for the first time. Welcome. Thank you so much for having me. Rose good to see you. Nice to see you. Rose are you better because you took the arduous journey you took to be where you are . Its hard to say but i think because of all the obstacles and the way i grew up and my Life Experiences, i think that its made me fight harder, its pushed me to be better and not take things for granted so maybe it has. Rose it is a lesson in will its a lesson in support its a lesson in belief. What else made it happen . Talent. Rose of course talent. Yeah, you know. Its so rare to make it. Rose but was it talent you developed or talent you began with . I think a combination. Rose always. Always. I dont think i could have made it with four years of training into american ballet theater, one of the Top Companies in the world. Thats very unusual and thats because i had a lot of natural ability and talent. Rose and for a dancer, what does that mean . For a dancer, you spend all of those years of training as a child because it has to become so engrained in your muscle memory, and you have to mold the body to do these things because it has to be second nature, once you get to this point when youre on stage and you have to become an artist. I only had four years to do it so a lot of it was naturally there. The line of my muscles and the flexibility i had naturally and even my musicality and my ability to pick up movement. Rose but was it more likely you could do it with the body you had than otherwise . Somebody else might have wanted miffed, but it wouldnt have worked because of something physically, the same way the great tennis star said to me there is something about the way my shoulder works that enables me to serve the way i do. Absolutely, i think thats something that helped me get there quickly because my body was capable of supporting myself because of the Muscle Development i had naturally because of the flexibility i had, but its also a mind connection i had to my body. You can have the ideal ballet body but it doesnt mean you will be able to understand and go on stage and perform. There are so many elements that come into play at this level. Rose i was going to ask you, as you were talking, whats the difference between skill and artartistry . Artistry is something that i think you have to have an innate understanding and ability to come alive on stage and not every dancer has that. Then the ability to understand how to become a character and thousand portray a character and for it to be able to read to the top tier at the metropolitan opera house. And then theres the technique you learn from having good training from understanding how it works, working clean and strong and being consistent there are just so many elements. Rose but im struck by it, too, because i mean, it is like it is, in many ways, about fundamentals. We talked about the audience, you talk about the art you talk about the the skill, you talk about the body, you talk about you know, the will power and all the best instruction you could possibly get in teaching, you know, its a combination of all those kinds of things, but you almost have to approach it as a craft. Absolutely. Hunt i rose i have to do this and this and h this, you know. Yes. I think were so similar we are athletes and are so similar to athletes that compete and perform at the highest level but, at the same time our ability to become artists really separates us from that, the sensitivity that you have to have in becoming these characters on stage again its very detail oriented, but you also have to allow yourself to be in the moment and take in whatever it is that youre getting from the audience. Rose are you competing athletes compete with with other people. Rose with other people. Who are you competing with . Definitely with yourself. I think that every time for me when i step on to the stage its live. You have to be so focused in that moment and it doesnt matter how many performances you do in a twomonth season, every single time you get on stage, it has to be like its the first time, because there are people in that audience who have never seen you before. Rose there is a famous baseball story about i think joe dimaggio who even though it was at the end of the season and even though it didnt matter, he ran to first base, did everything that he did as if it was the world series. And someone said, you dont need to do this. The season is over. Right. Rose and he said, there is somebody in this stadium whos never seen me and i want them to see me at my best. Its true. And i think there is something just engrained in us as athletes the discipline, and there is just something that you get so used to that pattern and way of working that you just have to finish and be your best all the time. Rose have you ever had the thought that if i didnt have to struggle so much, if it had been easier if there werent so many obstacles, i would have been better sooner . No. I think, had i started sooner, i would have been better sooner. I think what likely helped me from my background was my ability to use all those experiences to become an artist. I think having Life Experiences rose evolved. Yeah, allowed me to have a better understanding of what it is to be a person at a young age. I think a lot of athletes, but a lot of dancers, you know, youre in a very secluded atmosphere, and you spend so much time in the studio that you dont really have the experiences a lot of people have, you know, dating and going to parties. Youre in the studio and then, all of a sudden, you get into a professional company and its, like, here you go, youre an adult and you have to become part of it. Rose but do you in any way think youve missed something because of that, or has it been such a love affair it doesnt matter . I dont regret one thing. Rose you dont regret a single minute spent in the studio . Not at all. Its made me i dont think i could have become the woman that i am today without ballet and all of the experiences ive had because of this career. Rose the woman i am meaning the person you are, the values you have. Everything, to be as empathetic as i am as sympathetic, to be as strong, intelligent, open loving and caring, i dont think i could have become all of those things without classical ballet. Rose people also think youre savvy. Okay. Rose does that fit comfortable on your shoulder . Yeah, sure. Rose they think youre savvy because you understand the world, you really understand the ballet world, the social media world you understand the environment you live in, a and you understand how to master it. Mmhmm. I think thats something that i developed because of my experiences of being alone in a Ballet Company meaning i was the only black woman in a company of dancers in a decade. I had to learn different ways of getting my voice heard, of i think i just had to take a different route. I couldnt just sit back and rely on my talent to get me there. I had to understand how to communicate with my artistic director, to say what i wanted, to express how much i valued my career and respected what i did and i think that goes a long way when youre looking at how ive approached Everything Else in my career and i think thats hard for a lot of dancers to do. We just dont ever develop those skills when youre in a Ballet Company. Everything is taken care of for you. Were almost treated like students our entire career, so its not an environment that really nurtures that type of rose a wholesome sort of thing. Its not a normal existence. No. Rose and you have to make sure that that aspect of your own humanity has a chance to grow. Right. It just doesnt happen for a lot of people, and i felt, if i was going to succeed in the ballet world and in american ballet theater, i had to make a lot of these things happen for me. Rose you are now the principal dancer at the the american ballet theater, as good as it gets i assume. Have you just begun to develop all that you can be as a dancer . Absolutely. I think maybe its last season that i really started to feel that i had a hold on what it was i was really doing. Again, so much came really naturally for me. But there are no short cuts in ballet. So as much as everything was sort of easy for me to do in terms of movement, there were a lot of holes, i think, in my training and in my understanding of what it was to really be a ballerina, and i feel im just now kind of honing that. Its exciting that i have so much ahead of me, i have opportunities to do these roles that i am just now starting to do for, i dont know five to ten more years. Rose whos had the most influence on you . Raven wilkinson i would say africanamerican former ballerina in monte carlo. She has just taught me what it is to have just pure heart and love for what she did, for her ballet career for ballet for dance. She comes to all my performances, and ive never once heard her complain about her career and the things she didnt get to do because she was a black woman but what she learned from it and her being in my life, and she said to me when i was promoted, that she didnt think she would ever see that in her lifetime. Rose she didnt think she would see it in her lifetime. So rose a black woman so it means so much were sharing this together. Rose you would think not just because we made enormous strides and have a long way to go, we see that every day in contemporary society, but art is supposed to be a place that recognizes talent. Thats what arts about not color. Right. Rose not anything else. Yeah. Rose how good are you . Am i right . Yeah. Rose or i think you have to be extremely gifted to get into an elite, international Ballet Company. Rose thats the perception. Yes. But once you get there, it doesnt matter how gifted you are, its what you do with the opportunities that you have and its just been a tough path because i was the only one and thered never been an africanamerican woman to make it to this level at american ballet theater. Rose so, therefore, you feel what responsibility . You know, i feel like ive given myself this responsibility, and that is to be the voice of so many africanamerican dancers that didnt get the opportunities that i have that didnt have a voice, to try and educate a broader audience on what the classical ballet world is, and all those africanamerican women who came before me and helped create this path for me. Rose i can imagine it is a bit like for young africanamerican girls like it was for i mean so many i saw so many tears in 2008 on the part of africanamerican men and women of age because they never thought theyd see it, and they saw a man at the congress putting his hand on the bible as the next president of the united states. They never thought they would see it. Thats the way it is with you. Theyre going to see you dance across the stage and say if misty can do it, i can do it. Thats what i hope. Thats why i have been so outspoken, and i wanted to be that person for those people, and i didnt want it to be about me. I wanted it to be about what i represent and what the future of ballet could hold for so many. Rose its incredible. Take a look at. This this is a clip. Here it is. Its like this contrast of being extremely wild and animalistic, but at the same time having to have a sense of control. Yvonne captures me entertains me. Shes a fire bird. There is just something about her. Ive never seen anything like it before. All i want to do is touch her and every time i try to do that she tries to shy away and thats when you see those moments. The great thing about the choreography is its a struggle. The choreography and the story is a struggle, so it has to be there, so you cant rehearse it to the point where its too easy, which is what we do with ballet dancing. Rose thats from a brilliant documentary by rick burns and it was fire bird. What did you say at the end . Do you remember . That what we strive for in the studio and work so hard for is to make it look effortless and easy and something that was being created with the story fire bird is that it should look like a struggle. So it was a challenge of not overrehearsing so that it became too effortless. Rose whats the visualization for you as a dancer . You mean rose what are you thinking in your head as you execute the moves . Are you seeing i mean, i can relate this to sports only. If you are shooting a basket right. Rose your friends can literally see it before it leaves his hands can see it swishing through the net. Yes, its similar but it doesnt happen in those moments. Thats something that we almost do in preparation to be able to prepare. You want to visualize what it is you want it to be. But in those moments and the reason we rehearse over and over and over again is because, when youre in the moments youre not thinking about the steps. You are so in it that you are that character and youre living as that character. Rose in swan lake, do you think of yourself as a swan . Yes, you have to. Rose the movement of a swan . You know, i think that something, for me its number one. Its being the artist and being the characters on stage. Its so much more to me than executing these steps. Thats what makes people feel. Thats what art is about. Rose its art. Yeah its not coming to see if someones going to execute these steps that im sure thousands and millions of people could do. Rose its what they do that speaks to your heart. Right. Rose to elevate your emotions. Yes. Rose does body shape make a difference . Its definitely one of the requirements when it comes to this art form that youre supposed to look a certain way and i think skin color goes along with that. But my belief is that and with my own experience, i had the ideal body when i started ballet but then i went through puberty and my body completely changed and i wasnt seen as the ideal ballerina anymore. But i think we have the ability to eat in a certain way and do cross training and with all that we know about how to take care of our bodies these days, that you can get it to be the shape that you want it to be, and i think thats something ive done with my body. Rose do you know anybody that you believe has more will power than you . Oh, i dont know. Rose you cant imagine it . You cant imagine anybody willing to work harder to mold her body, to practice more, to be the best . You know, i think that dancers are rare people, and what we sacrifice and commit to do what we do with our bodies, we give our lives to be a part of this. There are no daifs there are no days you can take off. What i have to say about me personally is that beyond my career that the american ballet theater, and i think what makes me even more of a harder worker is what im doing outside of my career at a. B. T. It doesnt mean im taking off to do these things, like help create a project which is a diversity initiative, to be a part of the boys and girls club, be an ambassador and talk to children and write a memoir because i know what my story can do for so many people, thats all overtime because im passionate about changing the world of ballet. Rose changing ballet. Yes. Rose so that its open to more young africanamerican girls or minorities in general. Rose minorities in general. Yes. And i think just educating the broader world on what classical ballet is. The beauty in it. What it can do for so many. I think just in america, people just dont know about it and i think thats why for so many years, they said the art form is dying. Rose heres what i would think, and you help me understand this i assume you are enormously popular because of the commercials for underarmor. You probably reached a lot more people than you will reach the rest of your dancing life probably. Does it give you power does it give you, Misty Copeland, youre more than a principal dancer. Your name your image of power . I think that the power that it gives me is for people to see me and hear me and rose and want to sea and hear you. Right. Ive wanted my voice to be heard for so long, and this is a platform, those opportunities to be seen is a platform for people to know what it is im saying and hear it. Rose and what you have been through. And what i have been through. Rose you said almost with your voice cracking, i want them to know you know. Yeah, i think that rose i want them to know what i have been through. I want them to know what i can represent. Yes. I think that its so important for people to understand that racism still exists and it exists in the ballet world, and its very difficult and its as simple as looking at these Top Ballet Companies and how weird it is to see minority dancers. I think a. B. T. At this point is really se