And by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Rose this evening we remember the acclaimed novelist e. L. Doctorow. He died in manhattan yesterday from complications of lung cancer. He was 84. The New York Times described him as a quote literary time traveler who stirred the past into fiction and one of the contemporary fictions most restless experimenters. He was best known for historical fiction set in the early 20th century united states. Ragtime is the book that made him famous. It covers a decade and a half leading into world war i. His other notable works include the march, the waterworks and the book of daniel. At the news of his passing president o bomba tweeted quote e. L. Doctorow was one of americas greatest novelists. His books taught me much and he will be missed. His work was honored with many awards over the last four decades. The prizes he won include the national humannities medal the pen saul bel award for achievement in American Fiction and the National Book foundations medal for distinguished contribution to american letters. Joining me now is my great friend kate medina. She was his editor at random house. She knew him well as a writer and as a friend. So were especially pleased to have her come here this evening and talk about her friend and the man that she had the great pleasure to edit e. L. Doctorow. Welcome and thank you. Thank you charlie. Rose you said in an interesting way you said through books of great beauty and power and characters i will never forget he showed us americas great flaws and its astonishing promise and our own. So where is his place in American Literature . Well for me its really right at the top. It was exhilarateing always to read him. And one of the things i loved most about edgar as a writer was he was always trying something new. None of the books are exactly the same. He always created language voice a period, a story. And people that were different from whatever he did before. So you really never knew what he was up to. He never showed us anything until you got the manuscript. Which is already. Rose you didnt see it chapter by chapter. I didnt know what it was about. I didnt know the title. I didnt know when it was done. All of a sudden it would show up. And so one of the things i loved about him was the exhilaration of someone who was never satisfied with his own work. And in a way he felt that way about america. He, one of ther things i liked about working with him was he held everybody to the same high standards. He held for himself. And he also really understood humor. So you could be in a very serious conversation with him but then he would always Say Something funny. Because he understood that human beings are only they were only just so good. Now would he describe i mean it must be great anticipation for you because you didnt know what was coming. I didnt know what was coming,. Rose he didnt say this is what i am doing what i am working on, these are the characters, none of that. Nope, and he never said what do you think. Rose im writing a book and i will present it to you at the right time. Yeah. I was thrilled i have to say, when the march came. I think the march is a masterpiece. Its a huge novel. A great world he creates. It is set at the time of the civil war. And the through line is William Tecumseh sherrmans march. Rose we talked about that on this program. Okay, yeah. I think the march shows what he did as a writer because on the first page you really cant stop reading. He starts a story right away. You have these people in chaos. The language is different the sentence structure is very long its very different from anything else he wrote. So by the end of page 1 you cannot stop reading. Rose so here he was ten years ago, at the height of his power as far as you are concerned. I thought it was fantastic yes. Rose so what did the editor do. I mean as good as you are and as many really great writers that you had none better than him edgar, what was the role of the editor . Well, i think that its like maybe some of the other writers are friendship. I think the first thing with edgar was to understand and appreciate appreciate and take very seriously what he was doing. To read the books in a very serious way. To bring up anything that you thought maybe you didnt understand or wasnt clear enough or whatever. Rose thats what he wanted and expected. He wanted feedback. He was very eager for it. He didnt want you to meddle or tell him how to fix it. That was not necessary. All that was necessary was to love it to appreciate it and to tell him anywhere i could look again and see if it could be better. Rose but he said i dont think anything i have ever written has been done in understand six or eight drafts. Yes. Rose six or eight drafts. Yes. He also had a famous quote about writing a novel. He said writing a novel is like driving a car at night. You cant see beyond the headlights but you can make the whole trip that way. And i remember saying to him about the march you know i really like pearl. Pearl is a really good character. Maybe we could have a little more of pearl. Well i didnt get anywhere. He said you know i thought about what you said about pearl. As a matter of fact, that was all she was doing in this book. So for him these characters were real. And i think the article in the times today about him sort of gets a little bit at that, of he created a narrator that was not himself. Who was telling this story. And whatever that narrator came up with was what was there. But they all had edgar in them. How do you think he would like to be remembered as an American Writer . Well, he would like to be remembered as a wonderful writer not a historical writer, not any kind of label of a kind of fiction. I mean i always thought of him. Rose so he would brideel a little bit at historical fiction i dont think he thought thats who he was. Rose he was a writer. He was a writer. Random house did a time line of visit the world of edgar doctorow. And it was all different periods in america. Book of daniel in the 50s, ragtime. And it showed a great range of a background that he was drawing from. But the novels also are very contemporary. So you could see the march as a civil war novel. You could see it as an antiwar novel. Its just as relevant to any war in the world as it is to the civil war. So for him history was. Rose howo . Well the chaos. The people changing sides. I mean one of the things that edgar always did was he had a very serious project here. He wanted to show the value and the promise of america. And at the same time, how we fall short. And do funny silly things. So he has two characters in the march who keep changing uniforms and changing sides. So what they really want to do is live, right . So they put on a confederate jacket when they think theyre going to get away. And they see that isnt working, they change. So i think that he understood you know, you could read that and say well what would i do . Would i rather live or would i rather these were not important people, they were just average people. Rose these are moral questions. Moral questions. Rose and big idea questions. Big idea questions. Rose what do i do to survive. Yes. He was always holding our feet to the fire. Rose he was a son of new york. Yes he was. Rose born in the bronx. He said, i think that new york is home for my imagination which is convenient since i live here he said. And he wrote about new york. But he also wrote about William Tecumseh sherrman which is not new york at all. No. Rose so he could go far from new york but new york was where he always wanted to be. Right. It was always a work of the imagination. So if you asked me as you did who how would he like to be remembered i mean i think its in the world of melville. Its in the world of the great American Writers who took a great big tapestry of American Life and a of life in general. And took us into a story that just wouldnt quit. Rose and did he feel that he belonged there . I dont know whether he did or not. I would guess that most most writers that i know are restless. Theyre always trying to do better. To do something different. To surprise you, to surprise themselves. Rose so he was an experimenter as we always said but also a learner. I think he was pleased with his work. I dont know where he would place himself but i think i know where he would like to be placed. Rose he was an editor. He was an editor. Rose publishing works by people like normal mailer. Yes, at the dial press. Rose james baldwin. Yes right, right. At one point he got lucky and they went to california. And thats where he wrote ragtime. And that was the big breakthrough. Rose his breakthrough as a writer. Right. Rose how many writer wannabes set among editorial ranks among people who are editors. Its not uncommon. Rose because they deal with writing every day or perhaps thats what they always wanted it do but in terms of Getting Started within publishing they started editing and were very good editors and had to find time to write. I also think good writers can spot good writers. So its not a bad role if you are trying to make a living, have a family which edgar was trying to do and you want to have a job, at the same time you want to be in the world that you understand and where you might actually have taste and judgement that would make a difference. And so i think for writers who are coming along working in the business can be very good. Rose toni more ison work worked in the business. For a long time in the business, yes she did. Until she could afford to write fulltime and i think thats what happened with edgar. Rose when did you meet him, edgar. I met him a long time ago and i guess i worked with him for maybe over 15 years Something Like that. Rose so you sort of began to work with him around 2,000. Yeah maybe a little before that. Rose yeah. And what was he like when you met him . Well it was easy. I we understood each other right away. I dont think there was ever a minute. And i think we started maybe even with short stories. His short stories are whole little worlds. Theyre wonderful. Theyr also very experimental. Very modern. So when i first met him it is just like i understood him immediately. It wasnt any different. Rose did you understand what that was . Was it just somehow this is aan that i like and i get him and he gets me therefore we have a friendship. It was respect at first sight. Rose really. And also he was very intelligent. Rose interested in politics. Yeah. You could talk to him about many many things. And also he was fun. So it was it was very easy to work with edgar in that sense as a person. Rose ragtime was in 1975. Right. Rose so that was way before you knew him. Thats right. Rose but it was his breakthrough. It was. Rose it established him in the firm of American Writers. Right. And i do remember vaguely ragtime being the book everybody read. Rose everybody read it and everybody wanted to make a movie out of it. Yes right. Rose and did in fact. The two books that people mention. People know ragtime. The other book people always mention to me besides the march is the book of daniel. Rose absolutely. That is the one that seems to stick somehow. Rose and why is that . Well, i think it was i think its a wonderful novel. I think its a difficult subject. It is sort of based on the rosenberg case. I just think it was maybe a little more serious a lile more troubling but people do remember that book and they mention that to me. And they mention. Rose they like the march. Yes, Billy Bathgate very pular. Rose another movie. Yes. And also the characters always in edgar are people you feel like you knew. Rose how did he come to the idea of the march . Oure asking me . Im i mean i was presented with this. I think. Rose so he never explained how he got to this . Why the idea of sherman was ive always been intrigued by sherman. And he brought him alive for me in that book. Im not sure he would be able to tell us how he got that idea. Because i once asked him that about something else. And i am not sure he would know. Hes with, of course against war. And i think that part of what the march shows is the chaos of war. Rose it does. And especially and nobody hated war more than sherrman. Right. Rose many thought it was hell. Right. Rose but he also thought you had to win and you had to win as fast as you could and end it. Get it done. Rose but take the book of daniel which was about politics. What was his politics . Well, i think. Rose liberal democrat would you assume. Yes i would assume that. Rose very liberal democrat. Yes, i think he was an old leftie. I think he would say that i think he would say that. And his politics were absolutely consistent. Rose and what liberty did he take, total liberty in terms of historical fiction . If this was does wasly based on the rosenberg case was it the germ of an idea or did he closely parallel. I dont think he closely paralleled. I think he sprung off from something into the imaginationing. And he took you with him. He had that ability to kind of create a whirlwind or a swirl that you just wanted to keep reading. Rose he loved new york and he loved new york writers and he loved being part of that world that you live in. Yes. Rose the world of writers in new york. Yes. Rose people who attend, people who care about recognizing talent and people who jealously guard the privilege and rights of writers. Right. Also he taught at nyu for many years. Many many young writers at nyu were influenced by being in classes that edgar taught. Rose did you ever see a class. I didnt. But i gather it was pretty loose. He wasnt going to tell you what to do. But i think he inspired by the seriousness with which he took. Rose talk to me about and many things including the role of the novel and how he saw the novel and the future of the novel and what great novels mean to a country. Yes yes. You can reach people, i think he believed with a novel that youre not going to reach with a speech or something that is a lecture. He was going to seduce you. Rose yes yes, yes. He said history is the present. Thats why every generation writes it anew. I mean he went about sort of remanaging history. Right. Rose as a writer. Yes he did. Rose what were his influence what influenced him more than history or was it history, the most important contributor to his imagination . It was probably reading the New York Times. Rose really. Or talking to people at the nation or other he contributed to the new yorker and to the nation for many many years. And i think that reading the outrages of what is going on all over the world all the time was probably part of his inspiration. Andrews brain which is his most recent novel is a great work of the imagination. Youre in the mind of andrew. But in the end you get a Little Something about george w. Bush. Rose yes. But he sneaks up on you with it. So hes not going to tell you. Rose what he thought bush did to america. Yes. Rose he said this. I dont know what i set out to do. Me a couple of years ago that you could line my novels up and in effect now with the book with this book cover 150 years of American History. And this was entirely unplanned. I mean you do get this impression that this was he did not, in a sense, he was open to life. Yes. Rose and did not set out with some grand plan. Right. Rose as to what he would do. And whether there might have been great themes that spread throughout each of the novels and some commonplaces you could find that they shared some quality. Yes. Rose it was not a grand plan to say you know i set out to do and explore decade by decade say August Wilson did in theater. No. No. It was not program attic. At all. I do think though that even though he created a different language in cadence and so on for each of the books you always knew it was doctorow. I think you can tell, in some way, a great writer. You know that that is who you are reading. Nd and i would say that about edgar. Rose if someone handed you a chapter of a book and said identify the author, you more likely than other people but you could say i know exactly. This is the pen of edgar doctorow. Yes. Rose what would it be that you would see . Its cadence. Its something about the mind is on the page in the way its written. It would be the language. Edgar was a very efficient writer in the sense that he made leaps in a sentence or in a story. So you would be moving along much faster than you might with a different kind of writer. There was a book once published where people were writers were asked to write something you would never write under your own name. Rose thats a great idea. And so somebody sent me this book and said see if you can figure out which story is by your writer. It wasnt edgar. It was someone else. And i opened the book and i looked at the table of contents and i said that title is her title. And it was. Because theres something about the way the mind creates the language and the sentences. Rose you do as an editor lock into the mind of the writer. Yes. And the voice. Rose what will you miss the most . Oh i just loved him. I just loved him. I will miss everything about working with edgar doctorow. Rose we now show you edgar doctorow e. L. Doctorow made i think five or six appearances on this program. He is survived by his wife helen and their three children helen, richard and carolyn and grandchildren. He appeared on the program many times over the years. But here is a look at some of those conversations. E. L. Doctorow in his own words. Are you constantly aware of sort of two tracks. One is writer the best novel you can write and two pushing some envelope of literary form. Does that make any challenge to you . Some sense of creating form . You dont i dont think that way. Books begin for me with as i said, an image or a sound or piece of music. And i just pursue that. And sometimes it turns into a book. But the only rule is does it work. Its always all you want to do is make it work. Rose how do you define whether it works or in the. Well, if it works for you if it keeps its tension if something is really happening on the page if its a story worth telling. Rose and if the characters are alive for you if they live and breathe you can if everything, if there is a certain kind you just feel yourself on the nerve of the book. If you are off the nerve you can tell immediately. Its not a rational way of working. You dont start with a plan or an outline or an intention. It is the worse thing you can do. You just let the book happen along its own lines. And more or less instructing you. It