That is whats creating the false atmosphere of legitimacy to his claim. Let me go to Kristen Welker right now who has a little more insight into the counting in pennsylvania. Kristen . Just to pick up on the point chuck was making im hearing from an election official in pennsylvania who says this. Erie has 47 more to count and philadelphia has 300,000 mailins. Mailins were 70 up in the democratic favor. This person says this is far from over. The need to respond in real time. To make that point and to drill down on some of the broad numbers that chuck just laid out. And, again, i would just underscore the fact that this is part of why joe biden came out first. This is why he gave the message that he gave. He of course gave this rallying cry to his supporters saying he believes they are still on track to win the white house. But he concluded his remarks by saying, this race is not over, and its not up to President Trump to declare victory. Its not up to me to determine whos won this race. Its up to the american people. And the votes are still being counted. And i think thats why you heard him frame his message in that way. Now, ive circled back with his campaign to say do you have any further response . Theyve chosen at this point not to respond. I anticipate were going to get a more robust response from the campaign and from biden himself tomorrow. But, again, they point us back to those comments by joe biden, clearly an attempt to get ahead of what we just heard from President Trump. And there is going to be likely a lot of focus on the battleground state of pennsylvania. All right, kristen. Thank you. Lets go to Hallie Jackson, who was listening along with us. It is certainly like a politician on Election Night to put the most positive face you can put on things. But i think weve tried to make clear where theres been a factual error. Lets talk about one of the remarks that the president made when we were going through that and trying to show people where the vote was United States standing. But he mentioned going to the Supreme Court. He did. Can you say what he said about that . Reporter he did. So he talked about going to the Supreme Court, savannah, and then said, and im quoting here, that we want all the voting to stop, he says. We wont them to find any ballots, in the words of the president. We wont want them to win. And as far as hes concerned, he is prematurely and incorrectly at this point trying to declare victory, saying as far as hes concerned they have already won. A couple of things here. This is frankly i think a speech that is exactly what many of the president s critics feared tonight he would deliver tonight or on the morning after the election, trying to prematurely say he has won an election in which he has not won yet, trying to cast doubt on the legitimacy of the many legitimately cast ballots that are already out there. The president also alluding to this Supreme Court fight, pretty directly talking about this, just frankly, what, a week and a half, not even, after putting in place, nominating and getting the senate to confirm a Supreme Court justice that he chose, the third one of his administration. This has been sort of building over the last, i think, couple of months here in washington, this sense that the president may be pushing this exact strategy if the race were to be very close as we are seeing it on Election Night. Pulling back sort of more broadly at this point, you have to look at where the president goes from here. I think chuck made an important point that i want to reiterate. That some of this vote that is yet to come in, despite the president having said for weeks that he does not want there to be outstanding vote after november 3rd, some of that vote actually helps President Trump. I think that is something over the next few days youre going to see certainly advisers and aides attempt to walk back. I think you saw a little bit of that dichotomy and i think we picked back up in our coverage when Vice President came out and said were on the road to victory, hedging a bit more as you would typically, i think, hear from somebody, a leading politician at this point in a very close race. But bottom line here, to be clear, the president is not definitively leading in the states that he mentioned definitively leading in. Like, for example, georgia. Like, for example, North Carolina and pennsylvania, these states that he is trying to say he has won. Lots of question marks remaining, and i think there are some of the president s critics who will find these remarks concerning from him. Andrea, just the mention of the Supreme Court under these circumstances by the president thats a nightmare scenario. You know, obviously this was the question that Amy Coney Barrett would not answer. Would she recuse herself . And that has been the nightmare scenario because the president made so many statements before when she was nominated, before the confirmation, that we need her there by election day. We need her vote. He put that out there. So there was an expectation, and there were questions asked at the confirmation hearing. Given what he has said to color any vote that you take, would you recuse yourself . Now, notably, she did not participate in that key Supreme Court ruling on the pennsylvania Supreme Court ruling upholding the Pennsylvania Court ruling that they could take three more days to count votes that had ballots that were mailed in and postmarked by election day. But she said not that she was recusing herself. She said, because i have not had time to read in on these briefs. You can only use that so many times. Because the republicans had challenged it too quickly. As Pete Williams was pointing out at the time, if they had waited until she was confirmed to make their application, but they jumped the gun. And she said, i havent had time to read in. But she has not said shes going to recuse herself. She certainly could now say that any application to the court in the next couple of days is something that she will have as much time to read in on as the others. I think the word really is premature because the fact of the matter is we dont know who won this election. We dont know. Donald trump may well have passed the 270. Joe biden might as well. The votes have to be counted, and well know. The mailin ballots have to be segregated. They have to be held apart so that they can be counted. In case of future litigation, they did segregate them so you could have that argument before the Supreme Court. Essentially the Supreme Court kicked the can down the road and said, lets see if we get there. You can separate those votes if hoping this would not happen. And it may not happen, but Senate Majority is decided before the georgia runoffs. Its possible. Maybe alaska comes in for the democrats. But one thing democrats were afraid of is they didnt want the runoffs to be for the majority because thats a whole you want to talk about the race was already going to be tough enough, polarizing enough. If that runoff is for the Senate Majority, were going to have like a mini president ial election in january, you know, right before were worrying about an inauguration for one of these two gentlemen. Just when georgia voters thought they were done with political ads. The georgia tv stations are going to be happy about these runoffs. Kasie, the plot thickens in the senate. It really does, savannah. We may be looking at a scenario where we dont actually get very much change. Right now republicans control the chamber 5347. And, you know, chuck gave a pretty good rundown of where things stand state by state. And i think the big picture here is that this is a much better night for republicans than they were expecting, and its a much worse night than what democrats were expecting. I mean nancy pelosi was out this past week talking pretty publicly about what she would do and the process they would use in congress to pass legislation under a biden presidency and with a democratic senate. So they were really almost taking this for granted. And that applies to the house as well. You know, we reported reflecting what we have been hearing from both republicans and democrats, that they were likely to pick up democrats, five to seven seats in the house, and on a good night, maybe that pickup would be in double digits. Very quickly, kasie, i looked ahead at the 2022 senate races and all this stuff, and i had talked to some democrats about this. If they did not win the majority this cycle, it is very difficult for them to win the i mean it is just their possibilities at the majority, they got to run tables. Theyve got to sweep three seats. The 22 cycle will have the 16 senate seats up, and theres some opportunities there. Pennsylvania is a big one. This was their best shot. They needed to get the majority this cycle because not getting it here, lets say theres a democratic president. Its tough to gain seats in a midterm if theres a democratic president. Obviously if theres a republican president , maybe the 2022 midterms could go a little bit better in the democrats direction. Its a big setback if the democrats dont win the senate because if i could just jump in, big picture here, it looks like we are on track potentially for either status quo, President Trump in the white house and republicans winning the senate, or divided government in a biden administration. I think a lot of the folks im talking to think that thats still probably the most likely scenario at this hour. But, again, we dont want to do what President Trump has done and say one way or the other because we dont actually know yet. But that has very senate implications for governance and the way things will change or not over the course of the next two years. I mean americans have delivered with even what we do know right now a mixed message about what they want. They are saying, we are still divided on this. We are more sharply divided than ever. And i think that means the partisan negativity, the fighting, the inability to get anything done, the gridlock, all of that is more likely than not to continue no matter who wins the white house. I want to bring in Pete Williams right now. And, pete, here we are at a point, wee hours of the morning. We have no idea which of these men is going to win this election. But the president has forced us into this area of something wrong, something nefarious, and citing the Supreme Court could be brought into the picture. Describe if any justice is listening to this, how this goes over and how this plays out potentially. Well, there are already a number of lawsuits filed by republicans challenging mainly the mailin ballot process, the extended deadline in pennsylvania, adding three days. That case is still pending before the u. S. Supreme court. The court declined to stop the application of a state Supreme Court ruling that extended the deadline. The court declined to take it on a fast track, but its still sitting there, and the republicans could try again if it looks like it all comes down to pennsylvania and they want to try to renew that challenge. Its still sitting there. In just a few hours from now, the judge will have a hearing in pennsylvania in federal court on a republican challenge to the way one county, Montgomery County, the Third Largest county in pennsylvania, began to look at ballots before the canvassing, the precanvassing process started this morning. Thats still being challenged. So there are three lawsuits republicans have in pennsylvania. There are lawsuits in minnesota. Theres a lawsuit in nevada, in clark county. So there are a number of lawsuits all basically about the mail ballot process. And in theory, any one of them could end up in the Supreme Court, a prospect that justices very much dont want. But heres the thing to keep in mind. The sort of new direction that the courts have gone in these challenges so far is the theory that only the state legislature can change the rule for an election, not state courts, not state election officials. Only the state legislature. Now, the Supreme Court has never ruled that that is the case. There were three justices who said that in bush v. Gore 20 years ago, but its never been a holding of the Supreme Court. But it has caught fire among judges in the lower courts, and there are three or at least four at least three members of the current Supreme Court who think so too. So that could turn out to be a big issue. And ill just say one other thing about potential legal challenges or a potential way this could play out. If its really close, this could be the year when we really talk about faithless electors. The president ial electors that were actually choosing today, the people who will really elect the president when the Electoral College meets in december. If it really close within a vote or two, then the pressure on those president ial electors to flip and be faithless and vote for someone other than who won the popular vote in their state will be extremely high. Faithless electors have never made a difference in an american president ial election in the past. But if this one is really close, this could be another first. Not that we really needed another wrinkle, pete, but didnt the Supreme Court just weigh in on faithless electors recently . Yes. In the past term, the Supreme Court upheld the right of the states to insist that electors vote for the person who won the popular vote. But heres the deal. Only 14 of the 50 states actually have that legal requirement. In those 14 states, if a faithless elector goes rogue, the state can throw them out on the street and get somebody else in to vote according to the popular vote. But in all the rest of the states, if a faithless elector goes off on their own, theres nothing the state can do about it except fine them. All right. Pete williams, thank you. Were going to take a break. Stay with us as we await these downtothewire calls. Decision 2020 Election Night we cant always keep our distance. But we can still help protect each other this flu season by getting vaccinated. If youre 65 or older, get the superior flu protection of fluzone highdose quadrivalent. Its the only 65 flu vaccine with four times the standard dose. And its free with Medicare Part b. Fluzone highdose quadrivalent isnt for people whove had a severe allergic reaction to any flu vaccine or vaccine component, including eggs or egg products. Tell your Health Care Professional if youve ever experienced severe muscle weakness after receiving a flu shot. People with weakened immune systems, including those receiving therapies that suppress the immune system, may experience lower immune responses. 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But we can tell you that both candidates have come out over the last couple of hours, most recently donald trump, to suggest that something nefarious was afoot in terms of the vote and suggesting that he is actually leading, that there were not enough votes for him to lose essentially in some of the other races, which is untrue. Yeah. I mean he went as far as to assert that they had won the election and that there was something that had gone on to take it away from them. That is of course not true, and we can go to chuck actually. Hes on the phone. Im with our boiler room now. Talking to the boiler room. We can show you where the road to 270 stands right now. It is biden leading 220213. Whats interesting is its still anyones game. This could go in either direction. We have quite a few battlegrounds yet to be called. No one can declare victory yet. Theres a lot of vote left to be counted. Chuck, we kind of went through that. Thats why weve been sort of unpacking exactly what we heard the president say when he asserted that theyd won georgia and there was no way for biden to catch up or that he had won michigan. Those are just false claims. Theres a ton of vote left to be counted. Were still getting vote count in in nevada. 79 total reporting here. Were getting more of it in. Clark county, still a quarter of the vote out there. This is less than three points at the end of the day. It feels like its going to head to a similar spot that it did four years ago. But lets jump to arizona. More vote keeps coming in. Were getting up to 82 of the vote. Were going to keep getting some arizona vote tonight. So the point is stay tuned is the bottom line. Were not done. You mentioned the votes that are coming in, some will benefit President Trump. Some will benefit joe biden. Thats right. But there is enough coming in in arizona that were going to continue to look at it tonight. There may be some action there tonight. Wisconsin is another one. Look, heres what we think. Wisconsin and georgia, you know, flip the coin. We do think its still better to be biden than trump here. But these margins are going to be narrow. Believe it or not, were going to be worried not just about milwaukee, but i believe were going to be worrying about Kenosha County as well. Kenosha, of course, you remember you mean worried about waiting for the vote to come in . Waiting for that vote to come in. As you can see now, kenosha is a swingy county. Obama carried it in 2012 when the democrats carried wisconsin. And as you can see here, it was basically dead even between trump and clinton there with gary johnson being essentially taking away potential vote there. So you see here were waiting obviously we know theres mailin vote, and we just dont know how much absentee ballot is there, right . These are the Little Things now that will tell us whether wisconsin is going to be one point or two points in one direction or one point in another. So those are the extraneous things were waiting. But wisconsin is a state we expect to continue to get more stuff. But im just going to look, we are not getting any more vote out of michigan. Tonight. That is going to be usable here at all. Youve heard how many people have gone to bed in western pennsylvania. Were not counting there. Theyre going to start at 10 00 in the morning. And its pretty clear to us were not going to be able to call North Carolina tonight. We know that. Enough people have gone home. Theres enough vote. You know, this still looks like youd rather be trump than biden in North Carolina, but theres enough vote out there that youre not sure. And then georgia is a pure jump ball. It really is. This things getting really tight. The biden people are pretty are still pretty bullish. They think and ill tell you, i would be too if i were them. They look like they have a lot more they have a lot more vote coming in thats for them than whats coming in in the extraneous Rural Counties for the president. But the bottom line is this. Georgia, North Carolina, pennsylvania, michigan, i dont think were calling these races tonight. Wisconsin, nevada, and arizona, i dont know if we do, but we still think we may see some vote. I know we all want to go to bed, but we still may see some vote and see some movement before the sun rises. You didnt call maine either. We havent called maine. As you can see here, we do have an idea of where maines going to head. It looks like its going to be at least three for joe biden. But ill tell you here ive noticed even as joe bidens lead has increased, its all come from that First District in portland. It looks like trumps going to get that district. Weve got to take another break down. Well be back with more decision 2020 election ni it is 3 00 a. M. In the east, midnight in the west. Here is the latest now as we continue to track the results from election 2020. Georgia, it is too close to call. Too close to call. 91 of the expected vote in. North carolina, also too c clos to call. Wisconsin, were going for these battleground states. Wisconsin, too close to call, which is why were in this kind of stuck period right now. Nevada, too early to call. Arizona, too early, but biden leads in arizona. In maine, its too early to call. Once again, biden is leading there. Pennsylvania, a lot of votes to count left there. Too early. Michigan, too early. We go to hawaii, too early. And alaska, too early. So were in a bit of a Holding Pattern waiting for a lot of votes to come. Lets show you where we stand in the race to 270. Theres biden sitting at 220. 213 for trump. The road to 270 is the prize. Look at some senate races now. North carolina senate. That is too close to call. Thom tillis there with a narrow lead. Alaska senate race is too early. Arizona, thats too early. Mark kelly, former astronaut, leads martha mcsally. Lets go down to michigan. This is one republicans were hoping to flip. Its too early in that race. Maine race, Susan Collins right now seems to be holding on to a lead, but thats too early to call. Georgia is too close. The twoway race in georgia im sorry. Theres two races. This is the threeway race that is too close, but both of them look like theyre heading toward a runoff in january. Heres where the Senate Stands right now. Republicans with 47 seats. 46 for democrats. Lets bring in chuck todd right now. By the way, that maine, whats interesting there is that as the numbers have come in, Susan Collins numbers, its finally just dropped below 50. Had she stayed above 50, she would have avoided the ranked choice voting, that bizarre black box that i think some people are fully trying to understand. But now shes been pulled already under 50 with 67 reporting. So then we are looking at six to nine days while they figure out how that works. Maybe explain how that works, how people can vote for a second choice as well as a first choice. Its quite unusual. It is. You know, there are you can see we cant quite see it. Theres over 5,000 votes here. So what will happen, and then theres this multiple other candidates. The lowest person, then what their second choice would get applied to the vote. Then they just start doing it until somebody hits 50 , whether its the first candidate or the second candidate. In talking to republican strategists who think they know how this works and ill be honest with you. Everybody ive talked to thinks thats a black box. I just want to get my candidate over 50 so i dont have to worry about it. Thats not going to happen. The assumption is Susan Collins needs to be in the 48 range. You need to be within just a couple of points. As the incumbent, the assumption is these thirdparty candidates would have listed the incumbent as last in ranking who they wanted. And therefore gideon, sara gideon here, would get a lot theres a progressive candidate thats been running as saying, i want to be your first choice. Make sara gideon your second. I really am going to be very sewerious at t curious at the end of this night what is Susan Collins number. Is shes closer to 47 or 46, this may be in favor of gideon. Its a bit of a black box in american politics right now since we havent seen it applied to a major u. S. Senate race like that these days. We want to talk about the legal side of this because that is a side even as we wait for all the votes to be counted and to find out who won this election. As you know there have been republican threats and actually republican lawsuits filed. Justice correspondent Pete Williams and stanford law professor and nbc news legal analyst nate persily are here with us. Nate, let me start with you. A lot of lawsuits flooding the zone. How much is typical . How much is not . And how much do courts, you know, really uphold . Well, nothing about this election is typical now, and so the lawsuits that are in the pipeline are targeting the absentee ballots as well as provisional ballots that were at issue in pennsylvania. And so we will we should expect any more lawsuits now that this election is close. Weve seen over 350 lawsuits filed this cycle when it comes to this election. That was quite a bit, but maybe not unexpected given all the changes and legal ambiguities created by the pandemic. But now, you know, we are in a mode in the next 48 hours where we should expect the lawyers to be quite active to try to jockey to challenge certain absentee ballots. But i want to emphasize there is a Legal Process here, that this is not the first close election that any of these states have had. That theres an administrative process in counting the ballots. There is a state course process to adjudicate any alleged infirmities in those ballots. Then there are appeals maybe to the u. S. Supreme court, but that would be after many weeks of legal wrangling. Nate, its andrea mitchell. May i ask a question because those of us whoi lived through bush v. Gore and had the experience of watching them jump in and noticed that Justice Kavanaugh was citing that case, which was not supposed to be precedent precedenttial was actually cited in the wisconsin case last week. Bob bauer for the Biden Campaign is leading a group of lawyers that have been described as extremely, extremely experienced in this. Youve got two former solicitors general on the case. Theyve been working it. So how rapidly does this process happen . Is this another case where youll have a james baker versus warren christopher, two former secretaries of state and jim baker just ran circles around the democrats and warren christopher, or is this a case where both sides are going to be going at it, and you can expect that joe biden is going to have a strong team making the case that these are legitimate ballots that should be counted . Well, theres not going to be any shortage of lawyers involved if it gets to that. But we are not there, and i want to emphasize that. We first need to count the votes. We dont know how big the margin is going to be. And so the first process is actually figuring out whether there are even ballots in dispute. So once we count the votes, then we can deal with whether theres any legal problem with them. Like i said, this is not the first time any of these states have had to deal with a close election which might lead to a recount. But we dont even know if were in recount mode yet. We also dont know how many states are at issue. So it may be that it doesnt come down to all one state like florida in 2000, that it could be several states that are at issue. So we need to just wait about 24 hours to see whether theres any genuine legal issue that will be brought here. But, yeah, theres not going to be any shortage of lawyers on either side. They will both have the ammunition they need. And you think the votes will be counted. The president was talking about stopping the count. Well, i dont know what basis one would have to stop the count. I mean the ballots have been sitting, you know, in these election offices for weeks waiting to be counted. The only reason they werent counted is because the state laws prevented them from being counted early. There are other states like florida and North Carolina and others and arizona which do the counting earlier. These happen to be states where the legislatures refused to change the law to make the counting earlier. Pete, let me bring you into this. The net effect of many of these lawsuits is to take votes away of people who casted votes honorably in many cases. You look at texas and that attempt to stop drivethrough voting that put a lot of ballots on the line. Is there a guiding principle among the courts on that very difficult question of actually taking away votes that people thought were lawfully cast. Well, the question will probably come down to two things. First of all, if its really close as nate says, there will be an automatic recount or you can request a recount. That would be the first step. Secondly, it may come down to duking it out ballot by ballot. And especially with mail ballots. The state laws vary so much. Some require signature matching. Some dont. Did the ballot have the security envelope inside . So all those things can be challenged ballot by ballot. And then the question is, is it so close its in what the lawyers call the margin of litigation. Do they think if they sued they could make a difference in the outcome . Were several steps away from knowing all of that. If it does go to the Supreme Court, then of course its going to be a larger issue. On what basis would you go to the Supreme Court and say, these votes should be counted or they shouldnt . And thats what gets back to this thing i was talking about earlier, this theory that has taken hold among some republican judges that only state legislatures can change the rules because the constitution says that the states shall choose their president ial electors, which is what were doing tonight, in the manner as the legislatures may direct. So does that mean that only the legislatures can change the rules, or does that mean the legislatures literally choose the manner of choosing electors, which is to say, either the legislatures vote for them directly or they have a popular vote. So that would be the big issue. That would be the sort of legal principle if it got to the Supreme Court. All right. Pete williams and nate persily, thank you very much. Nbc news president ial historian Michael Beschloss joins us now. Michael, we dont know how this night ends, so its kind of a difficult conversation. But you have seen the way these votes seem to be breaking. They seem to hold the line of division that weve seen in other tracking of the American Public the last few years. Where does it leave us . Where does it take us . Well, lester, we are a divided country. And as of this moment, despite what the president said in the east room, joe biden has an excellent chance of having the votes to be elected the next president of the United States, which is, i believe, why the president went to the east room and did something that weve never seen before in american history, which was an american president falsely claiming a victory in a president ial election that he has not earned. And the other part of this that we havent seen before is talking about going to the Supreme Court to have it resolved. I totally defer to the excellent and sage advice of Pete Williams. But heres a case where he seems to be hearkening back to 2000, bush v. Gore, the contested votes in florida. And a florida Supreme Court which said there should be a recount of ballots that were perhaps not properly counted. The george w. Bush campaign went to the Supreme Court and said this recount should be stopped for a number of reasons. The Supreme Court complied. It stopped. And as a result, officially george w. Bush won the state of florida by 537 votes, and he served a term as president , was reelected in a way that was unchallenged. The other thing in history, lester, is 1876. Well take a quick break here. Weve got more to come for you as our decision 2020 election coverage continues. Im greg, im 68 years old. I do motivational speaking in addition to the substitute teaching. 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Stress comfort from natures bounty welcome back to election 2020 coverage. We knew it was going to be all night. Its a long night so you shouldnt be surprised to see us after 3 00 in the morning on the east coast. Chuck todd is with me here. Were kind of in a Holding Pattern right now. Some very, very key states where the vote just doesnt seem to be coming in. We are. Look, weve got something for you to look forward to in 44 minutes. Which is at 3 00 a. M. Local time in milwaukee, 4 00 a. M. Out here, we expect some big chunk of vote from milwaukukee, and tt will give us a big idea of what the real situation is in wisconsin right now. You know, our models indicate that after all is said and done, we think biden has the edge here after all of that. But, again, wed like to know how many ballots are out in Kenosha County as well because theres a bunch of mailin vote out there in theory should lean towards biden, but well see. All right. Well, well wait for that. I want to bring in kate snow right now. Kate has spent a lot of time on the road these days getting to those the voters, spending specifically time in the midwest. What do you want to share as we look at that divided map . Lester, anecdotally, i have spent a lot of time with Trump Supporters, a lot of time in counties that were obama counties that swung to donald trump back in 2016. So i guess what i would say is some of this is not surprising to me tonight. You know, the number of people that ive had say to me how enthusiastic and excited they were for the president , and you see that at his rallies, but this is away from the rally setting. This is people im talking to on farms and in neighborhoods and in suburbs. I noticed when i was reporting and traveling around a real what i would call an enthusiasm gap. The people that were telling me they were supporting joe biden were not necessarily as enthusiastic as the Trump Supporters that i met. So i think maybe that speaks a little bit to some of what were seeing tonight in the results. I think it also speaks to why the president came out shortly just a short time ago and said the things that he said, because he believes he can appeal to that base, which of course weve known for a long time that he had that base. But i think in some counties and chuck can speak to this. In some individual places, in pennsylvania, western pennsylvania and eastern ohio, where i spent a lot of time, youre seeing those numbers for President Trump going up from where they were in 2016, and thats that enthusiasm. Many of the president s critics criticize him because of some of his brash actions, one of the things i found in doing the stories youre talking about and talking to his supporters, its a question of where you get your information. Thats right. And what you believe. So to lay out the premise of a question based on a set of facts that may be in dispute in their mind. Right. And at the risk of bringing up something that is very, very fringe and very much discredited and a conspiracy theory, qanon, which weve heard a lot about in this election cycle, which is a sort of set of beliefs on the internet, unfounded in fact. I talked to supporters who very much believe the disinformation theyre seeing online. Thats where theyre getting their news, from these facebook groups and other places that have a lot of q content. They believe that President Trump is the hero in that story and they are strongly Trump Supporters. Im not saying that all the president s supporters belong to that group of course, but i think you get the sense, lester, for where people are getting their information, and its not even from mainstream networks or cable channels. Its internetbased, and theres a lot of group think that goes on where people share and crowdsource and things that sound to our minds as journalists like they cant possibly be believed and statements that are made that dont have basis in fact are readily believed. All right. Kate, thank you. I want to bring in editor of the national review, rich lowry, and former top adviser to president obama, david plouffe. Good to have you back. Rich, let me start with you. I assume you heard the president earlier all but claiming victory, essentially saying theres not enough vote to catch him out there. Give me your reaction to that. Well, it was obviously irresponsible. Strange given its the kind of thing you say when you think youre losing. I dont think they really think theyre losing. But the president always has a sense of deep unfairness and that hes been being treated in some illegitimate way. Im sorry. I hear you fine, but im being told that we lost your audio, so im not quite sure whats going on. Sorry. Okay. Were good. Can you hear me now . Plus, the idea that youre going to go and sue and just stop these absentee ballots and early votes from being counted is completely ridiculous. There is a segment of pennsylvania ballots that if its really close will be under a cloud. Absentee ballots that arrived late and are being counted under this new rule written by the pennsylvania Supreme Court. And i do think there are at least four Supreme Court justices, maybe five, maybe six who think that is impermissible for the pennsylvania Supreme Court to have rewritten the rules like that. But thats a relatively small segment of votes that will only be in play if its really, really close in pennsylvania. So, david plouffe, i mean where does that leave us . The president questioning the legitimacy of the process, a process that he could easily win on the other end . You know, lester, this wasnt just trump being trump. You know, i believe this is a really dark moment in history, one of the darkest, if not the darkest moment weve ever seen in the white house. But, listen, the votes are going to be counted. You know, rich lowry is saying that. Youve got ben shapiro saying that, contra coshris christie s that. Trump wants all the votes to be counted in arizona and nevada, just not in places where hes ahead. So the votes are going to get counted. Well know a lot more in the next 24 hours and certainly maybe in 72 hours well have a complete picture of this election. Listen, this is a close election. It could go either way. But given what happened in the second Congressional District of nebraska, nbc has not called arizona yet but fox has called and the a. P. Has called it. If biden takes a lead in wisconsin and michigan, hes at 270. I think id rather be joe biden right now than donald trump barely just from a voting standpoint. But this is going to be a really trying time. Even if ultimately this is really trump howling into the wind and he doesnt have any legal recourse, you know 40 to 45 of the country is going to believe what he says. So the divisions grow more stark and dangerous. David, thank you. As we wait to hear more from those uncalled states, well pause here briefly. Hope you can stay with us as we continue our coverage of the first fdaapproved medication of its kind, tremfya® can help adults with moderate to Severe Plaque Psoriasis uncover clearer skin that can last. Most patients who saw 90 clearer skin at 28 weeks stayed clearer through 48 weeks. In another study, the majority of tremfya® patients saw 90 clearer skin at 3 years. Serious allergic reactions may occur. Tremfya® may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms or if you had a vaccine or plan to. Tremfya®. Uncover clearer skin that can last. Janssen can help you explore cost support options. Our Retirement Plan with voya gives us confidence. So we can spend a bit today, knowing were prepared for tomorrow. Wow, do you think you overdid it maybe . Overdid what . Well planned, well invested, well protected. Voya. Be confident to and through retirement. Ocean spray works with nature every day to keep you healthy relief from your worst cold and flu symptoms. Le so when you need to show your cold whos boss, grab mucinex allinone. And get back to your rhythm. Feel the power. Beat the symptoms fast. Bubbles at this price . Is this for real . Oh, its real. Believe me. I mean this is upexpected. You would say. Remarkable . Absolutly. A remarkable deal. Thanks. I get that all the time. Wait. What . grocrey outlet jingle certainly more on the line than the presidency. Heres where the Senate Stands at this hour. Democrats with 46 seats. 47 for the gop. Democrats will need three if they win the white house, four if n not. Heres what the house projection looks like. Nbc news projects that the dems will hold on to the majority in the house of representatives. We continue to watch a number of battleground states, waiting for more vote to come in. Kind of a Holding Pattern right now. President trump came out an hour or so ago, seeming to suggest that hes on the cusp of victory if not claiming it. Well take a quick break here as we travel the long road to 270. Decision 2020 Election Night welcome back, and thanks for staying up with us as we take you through this Election Night into the early hours of wednesday here on the east coast. Lets show you where we stand. Well put up some of the races were watching very closely. Georgia remains too close, 92 of the vote in there but still a lot outstanding. Wisconsin im sorry. North carolina, too close to call. Wisconsin, that is also too close to call. Lets go to the west and nevada. Thats too early to call right now. Arizona is too early, but we can report a biden lead in arizona. In maine, also too early, but biden leads there as well. Pennsylvania, too early. A lot of vote outstanding there. And michigan, it is too early. Heres where we stand in the race to 270, the road to 270. Right now biden with 220. Trump with 213. Again, its a road to 270 electoral votes. Chief White House Correspondent Hallie Jackson is joining us right now. Hallie, we heard from the president a bit later. How much has reverberated from his assertion that he is winning this thing . Reporter well, his false assertion, lester, as hes trying to declare victory even though that is not the case. Votes are still being counted and we just cant be clear enough about that as the night goes on and as the morning goes on. I will tell you that already some people who are close to the president are very publicly expressing their concern about this. Im thinking specifically of former new jersey governor chris christie. Governor christie is somebody who is an ally to the president. He is somebody who has been involved in the campaign, helped the president with debate prep, for example. Even, you know, potentially caught coronavirus. We know that governor christie had covid, and he was part of some of those sessions where covid was spreading at this hot spot at the white house. Tonight, this morning, i should say, governor christie is talking about how the president s remarks tonight, his, again, false and incorrect claims that there is fraud in this election despite zero evidence of that having been the case, were a bad political and strategic decision, lester. Were hearing from rick santorum, somebody who has been deployed as a kind of surrogate for President Trump out on cable news saying he was distressed to hear the president talk the way that he did. Santorum, of course, a pennsylvania guy. We are also hearing from the governor of pennsylvania, the democratic governor of pennsylvania, who is also extremely concerned unsurprisingly about what the president is saying, saying essentially that there are some million votes yet to be counted, ballots yet to be counted in pennsylvania and that the state will count all of those votes despite the president s threats to have that end. So one of the angles that were continuing to report out, lester, is sort of the public and private dichotomy here and what we are hearing from people around the president. Oftentimes we know the president says things that his advisers or aides maybe dont want him to say. They go a little too far. They get a little off message. And were looking to see if that is, in fact, the case as to what happened tonight. I will tell you it is pretty quiet here at the white house, lester. The party is over. The event inside the east room is done. People have cleared out. Things have been broken down. The president has been off twitter for a little bit. He is somebody known for his Early Morning hours. I wouldnt be surprised to see that fire up this morning. The other thing were watching, of course, is whats going to happen in sort of the trump conservative media world, lets say. The outlets that speak to those supporters of President Trump and how theyre framing some of this discussion as a lot of americans who may have gone to bed, some of whom may not be watching this coverage react to what the president has to say. I want to White House Correspondent for the pbs news hour yamiche alcindor. Give me your take on the pace of this evening and Early Morning. Its fair to say there were a lot of expectations that if things lined up bidens way, they could go very, very quickly. Thats right. At one point in the night, the Trump Campaign felt like they were going to be able to declare victory pretty early in the night. But as the results came in, it was very clear that they were not going to be able to do that. Biden, of course, then came out at 12 30 and said i still think i have a lot of paths to victory. But really what happened next was this stunning speech by President Trump, something that weve never seen any u. S. President do. He was declaring victory even though he has not officially won this election. This has a lot of people feeling like were now, as americans, in a constitutional and a political crisis because the president , if he doubles down on this, if he takes this stance to try to go to the Supreme Court to try to take this election and try to win it without having all of the votes counted, that is going to be a very big problem. Democracy, of course, is the bedrock of america. Its why other countries look to us and say, we want to do our elections like them. So the president here has a lot of people around him very disturbed, very distressed. This is a scenario that we of course thought might happen because the president has been hinting at this for some time, that he might be declaring victory if he felt he was in a good position. Now that it has actually happened, there is a lot of nervousness and anxiety at the white house and around the president. I think the thing that was confusing listening him do that predisposes that hes going to lose. Thats certainly not the fact is each man right now has a chance of becoming president. So by setting up this idea that theres been fraud, the question is, okay, what happens if you win . Exactly. There are votes in wisconsin, in pennsylvania, in georgia that were cast for President Trump that have yet to be counted as well votes that have been cast for joe biden that have yet to be counted. But the president is taking a stance at this point that if he doesnt have any more votes counted, that he will be able to declare victory. Its a scenario that gop operatives have said is really not the right way to do this. But the president is doubling down here. Weve heard the president at times, as hallie hinted, weve heard the president say things the white house then comes out and clarifies and says thats not exactly what he meant. We saw the Vice President not go as far as the president. He was not saying that weve already won. But the president went and picked through a bunch of different states including georgia, North Carolina, claiming that he had already won those states when in fact he has not won those states yet. We cannot stress enough that there is not any sort of evidence that democrats are trying to steal this election. Weve already seen twitter take action to try to stop the president from making these statements. They labeled a tweet where he was saying democrats were stealing the election as saying its disputed and spreading misleading information about our election and about our civic process. So this is in some ways an alarming set of events that were seeing tonight. Again, its still early to say. But the president was clear saying i believe i have won this election. Yamiche, thanks for staying up late with us. Let me bring in our Senior Business correspondent stephanie ruhle. Stephanie, the markets will open here in several hours from now, and they will wake up to an uncertain president ial race. How is that going to play out . Uncertainty is not what the markets like, lester. Its been a roller coaster tonight. But what we really saw the futures market, dow futures, thats an indicator for where the markets could happen. When we saw them hit session lows was during and after the president s speech when he sort of opened the door for a potential contested election. You know, when the markets really started getting skittish a few weeks ago, it was when the president did not agree to a peaceful transfer of power. From the markets perspective, they want to make sure that the election goes smoothly, that the process worked. And from what weve heard from the president in the last couple hours, were going to get anything but smooth, and the markets are reacting to that and not in a good way. Stephanie, thanks very much. Andrea. That is precisely the point. You heard a very different tone from the Vice President , from mike pence. He didnt go as far at all as what the president said. He was the cheerleader for donald trump as he always has been. But he was a more traditional elect ted republican figure or any mildly walked back the president s remarks. Exactly, trying to sort of moderate it, and it was notable there, the difference in tone. I also want to just point out weve talked about the fact that nancy pelosi and the democrats have held the house. They may have lost a couple of seats. Right now were giving them by all accounts 227 house seats, democrats. And 207 republicans, which could be a gain of 10 for the republicans. It could also be a loss. There were a few vacancies, six vacancies, but they could have lost a couple of seats. We dont know until all these seats are confirmed. Youre going to get a view from some of the pollster world now. The fact is we dont exactly know. We know that theyre holding the house, but we dont know whether theyve actually lost a couple of seats as well. All right. Let me bring in fred yang, a democratic pollster and partner at Hart Research associates. Thanks for being with us. We dont know this evening ends, but what are you learning from your standpoint based on where were at . Well, i think im learning, lester and andrea, that, you know, four years ago this Election Night feels a lot like four years ago. And, you know, in terms of i guess where the president ial election will be decided will be those same three states that decided the president ial election four years ago. But i think the added complication, weve all of us, journalists, pollsters, candidates, the public have been grappling with this system in which basically were at halftime in these three states because so many votes have to be counted. And, you know, because of the pandemic and the reality of life, you know, weve been told over and over again be patient. Theres two sets of vote, the early vote in some of these states like wisconsin and michigan, the reason why your networks and others havent called the races for a candidate is because theres still significant number of votes out there. And i just think, you know, lester, thats just part of the new normal that were going to have to get used to. That it may be a couple days before the election is officially known. I think from a numbers perspective and ive listened and watched chuck and his team all night. I think its likely that Vice President will win michigan, wisconsin, and pennsylvania. But you know what . Thats kind of tough to sort of convey when people see the actual vote counts that have President Trump ahead, but thats the whole point of what were talking about. This is about the voters tonight. The voters have spoken. It may take a couple days or couple more hours for all the votes and voters have spoken. But, look, again, i expect when all the votes are counted and the legitimate votes are counted, that Vice President will be elected president. We just may have to wait a couple days. So is it too early for you as a pollster to start licking your wounds and to declare something was wrong . I think that the short answer is yes. I think theres still more votes to count. I think look, i think what happened was there was an expectations game based on short polling, based on, you know, disapproval numbers for the president. Look, i think you have to give him credit. He is a strong closer. I was looking, lester, at the exit polls. Exit polls are just like polls. In the 2016 election, in the last week, one of the reasons why President Trump won the election again, not the popular vote but the Electoral College vote in michigan, wisconsin, and pennsylvania was because he won the late deciding vote. This time he won the late deciding vote by double digits. And, again, thats kind of changed because the late deciding vote in 2020 is a little different than 2016 in which so Many Americans voted early. But, look, he ran. Hes a strong campaigner. He campaigned strongly. Sure, he changed some minds at the end of the game. But i also think we have to give the Biden Campaign credit. Sure, they were looking at states that republicans had won in the past texas, georgia, North Carolina. They worked hard to try to win those states, but they never lost the prize, which again is michigan, wisconsin, and pennsylvania. And, in fact, as we all know over the last weekend and even yesterday and this morning, the Vice President and senator harris campaigned in those states because they knew at the end of the day, yeah, we can try to go for georgia, we can try to go for texas, but where were going to win the presidency is these three states. I would just say the other added complication is that now, unlike four years ago, donald trump is the president. The judiciary is considerably different all the way up to the Supreme Court. And there is less public confidence, especially among at least, you know, his supporters in the news media, in the legitimacy of these vote counts, and in the process. So there is an undermining of the legitimacy of the american democracy even though it is normal to count absentee ballots. But by having so many mailins and absentee votes, this is not contributing to confidence that when all the votes are counted, people will believe in the final count. One of the things were watching tonight is who will have control of the u. S. Senate when all is said and done. To talk more about that, lets go over to kate. Lets take a look at some of the races weve been following. There were about ten we were really watching closely. North carolina right now, still too close to call. But leading there at the moment is thom tillis, which would be something the republicans were hoping for. Alaska, weve got too early to call at this point. Lets move on to arizona. Arizona, mark kelly in the lead there. Its a democratic hopeful pickup but too early to call at this point. Michigan, this is a race thats been talked about a lot. This is gary peters seat. Hes the incumbent. But right now youve got the republican in the lead. It is still too early to call. In maine, Susan Collins fighting for her seat there. This is closely watched. Too early to call at this hour. Then two races in georgia, the only state with two senate races right now. Weve got perdue in the lead there, but 91 in. Still too close to call. This would go to a runoff. And this one as well. The special election, a socalled jungle primary in georgia. They are going to advance to that runoff in december. Taking a look at the Senate Makeup this hour, remember it used to be 47 democrats and 53 republicans. Right now, 4647. The chances of the democrats, guys, being able to take back control of the senate, which is something that democrats were really hopeful about tonight going into the evening or last night, is looking a lot slimmer now. Runoffs in georgia certainly loom large. Kate, thank you. Another quick break here. Well continue with decision 2020 Election Night coverage in just a moment. Is now a good time for a flareup . Enough, crohns. For adults with moderate to severe crohns or ulcerative colitis, stelara® can provide relief, and is the only approved medication to reduce inflammation on and below the surface of the intestine in uc. You, getting on that flight . Back off, uc. Stelara® may increase your risk of infections, some serious, and cancer. Before treatment, get tested for tb. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flulike symptoms, sores, new skin growths, have had cancer, or if you need a vaccine. Rpls, a rare, potentially fatal brain condition, may be possible. Some serious allergic reactions and lung inflammation can occur. Lasting remission can start with stelara®. If youve been financially impacted by covid19, janssen may be able to help. I got my money right with sofi. Thanks sofi for helping us get our money right. Th80 of bacteria in your mouth arent even 80 . Eeth. Ht. Colgate total is different. It fights bacteria in your whole mouth protecting 100 of your mouths surfaces colgate total. Antibacterial protection for a healthier mouth. [ sneeze ] skip to cold relief fast with alka seltzer plus severe powerfast fizz. Dissolves quickly. Instantly ready to start working. Oh, what a relief it is so fast great day on the lake it is. Lunch is cookin and i saved a bunch of money on my boat insurance with geico. Fellas, can it get any better than this . Whoa my old hairstyle grew back. So did mine. [80s music] what . I was an 80s kid. It only gets better when you switch and save with geico. Welcome back. Election night 2020. We continue to wait for key battleground states for more vote to come in and get a handle on where all this is going. Right now i want to hand it over to Hallie Jackson. Reporter we are following, lester, what the developments are here at the white house. The president obviously delivering that election morning speech the night after returns started coming in in which he falsely tried to declare victory, in fact did say he believes we have won the election. To be very clear, the facts on the ground simply do not support that. As weve been talking about, there are so many legitimately cast ballots that have yet to be counted in some of these important battleground states pennsylvania, georgia, North Carolina, for example, races that nbc news has not yet called or projected. To talk about some of this, i want to bring somebody in who knows some of these states, former White House Press secretary and nbc news analyst robert gibbs. Robert, good morning to you. Good morning. Talk about your reaction here to what you heard from the president here at the white house in the east room, delivering that speech. Yeah. Just nothing short of stunning. I mean i guess in some ways weve come to expect it, but its still a jarring thing, particularly when the president wants to see votes counted in places like nevada and arizona but doesnt want to see any more votes counted in pennsylvania or michigan. So, again, a jarring thing. First of all, a Campaign Event in the white house is a jarring thing. To watch the president of the United States essentially declare victory in races that he knows are far from over, i think is just disconcerting and very unsettling for the hard work that has to come next in counting these votes and keeping people safe that are counting these votes. A couple of the states that im hearing about quite a bit tonight from sources that i talk to in and around President Trumps orbit are pennsylvania and georgia, right . And two different story lines there. Pennsylvania im getting a sense of increasing optimism based on some of the numbers. Georgia, less optimism perhaps than earlier on election morning. How do you see those states playing out . And if youre joe bidens campaign, what are you seeing in some of these numbers . Well, look, i think theres reason for the Biden Campaign to be optimistic and for the Trump Campaign to be pessimistic about georgia. I think the vote thats out, particularly those metro counties around atlanta, we know theres going to be some big vote there. So that one wouldnt surprise me. I think theres still a lot of vote out. I think its hard to get a handle on whats still out in pennsylvania. We know theres western pennsylvania vote out in allegheny county. We know theres a lot of philadelphia. We know theres a lot of Montgomery County again over in the east. So i think its really hard to get a real handle on kind of where pennsylvania is. I think youve got even some counties within the state that arent going to count their early or absentee votes until starting tomorrow morning. So i think it may be several hours before we know a lot more about where we are with pennsylvania. Ill be anxious to see obviously in the next hour, few hours, what happens with wisconsin. Youve got obviously the milwaukee vote to come in, and youve got a couple of other places that still have to report some vote. And that one will be an interesting one to see. Real quick before i let you go here, looking at the senate landscape, democrats i think had hoped to be doing better at this point in the morning than what we are seeing in some of these places. Is there a chance to potentially turn it around . Again, some of the vote is still early, and how do you think this plays out . Look, i think democrats are undoubtedly disappointed at where the senate is at this time. Look, i think the key is that maybe that those races may more than one race, but at least one race we know is going to go to a runoff in georgia. That will happen just a couple days after the new congress is seated. So we may well be have extended not just in the couple days in a president ial race but extended a couple of months in the georgia race. Yeah. Robert gibbs, former White House Press secretary, staying up late and early with us this morning. Robert, thank you. Lester, ill toss it back to you in the studio. I think weve officially moved into early territory, not late. Another break now. Id call my grandfather as a result of the research that ive started to do on ancestry. Having ancestry to fill in the gaps with documents, with photographs, connecting in real time means that were having conversations that are richer. I have now a closer relationship with my grandfather. I cant think of a better gift to give to my daughter and the generations that come after her. Bring your Family History to life like never before. Get started for free at ancestry. Com relief from your worst cold and flu symptoms. Le never before. So when you need to show your cold whos boss, grab mucinex allinone. And get back to your rhythm. Feel the power. Beat the symptoms fast. Try natures bounty sleep3, a unique trilayer supplement that calms you, helps you fall asleep faster and stay asleep longer great sleep comes naturally with sleep3. Only from natures bounty. All otc pain relievers including volthave one thing in common none are proven stronger or more effective against pain than salonpas patch large theres surprising power in this patch salonpas dependable, powerful relief. Hisamitsu. Bubbles at this price . Is this for real . Oh, its real. Believe me. I mean this is upexpected. You would say. Remarkable . Absolutly. A remarkable deal. Thanks. I get that all the time. Wait. What . grocrey outlet jingle decision 2020 coverage on nbc moving into a new day. Its almost 4 00 in the east, and we continue to wait for more votes and some more movement as to where we are in this election. Andrea. Americans turned out in unprecedented numbers to early vote, mailin vote, and those votes have to counted. Were going to take a break. Kate snow is going to continue our coverage here on the network in just a few minutes. Welcome back to nbc News Coverage of decision 2020. It is 4 00 a. M. , if you are sticking with us, thank you. Get i caught up on what we projected here. This is the map that we are looking at, at this moment. Take a look at some of the individual states, beginning with pennsylvania, this is the