Transcripts For KNTV Dateline NBC 20171029

Reporter the conspiracy. This is a guy who aspired to be a hit man. She was a sitting target. Reporter so doesnt that mean that you can now charge em all with murder right then. I have no facts. Reporter so detectives lay a trap. The hunt. Trying to play cat and mouse. He was already really paranoid about being setup and he held up a note that says are you wired. Reporter will they catch their prey . You hold your breath. Um, the world kinda stops. Reporter you never think its going to be you. Oh, no, no, no, no. Reporter no. The young man is right. In fact, this is the kind of thing that just doesnt happen to anyone. No. Never. Never would have thought i would have ever seen anything like this. Reporter no. And not here. Not in this neighborhood. In this house. But certainly not, surely not, at the very moment when at least three policemen were just outside the front door and just over the backyard wall not more than 30 feet away. We had to be told a few times just to get it in our heads what happened. Reporter what happened here in broad daylight under the very noses of the cops was murder. Long beach, california. A town that may have been cheated a little in the city pride department. A lot of people assume its like l. A. , but its not. Its different. It has its own identity. Reporter do you think its different culturally . Or just i think so. I think long beach is sort of its own beast. Reporter sure. Its a little more working class. Reporter yes, and its one of those 50 suburbs in search of a city that everybody calls l. A. But long beach is a brawny city unto itself. Half a million people, 52 square miles. A busy airport, a big university, an ocean front, a long beach. And its share of wealth and poverty. And, of course, crime. Lots of scope for a person who no shortage of work for, yeah, if you cover crime. Reporter tracy manzer covered the police beat at the local paper the Long Beach Press telegram. She was fair to the cops. They trusted her. So maybe thats why, one november morning a contact who was in the Police Department came over to me in the midst of this sort of press conference and said, you need to go to bixby now. And i was a little taken aback. Reporter taken aback, because bixby was not a name you heard on the crime beat. So it was very clear to me something major was going on. Packed up my stuff, ran out the door, and got to the scene. Reporter the scene was in bixby knolls, quiet, affluent, leave it to beaver homes on carefully tended treelined streets. Violent crime is unheard of in bixby knolls, which is just the way they like it here. Maybe thats why, if they grew up here or moved here, they rarely leave. Like rachel kerns. Everybodys very friendly. Always waving. You dont get that a lot in southern california. Reporter rachel still lives in the house she grew up in. We were able to play as kids at all hours of the day. We didnt have to worry about anyone ever hurting us or coming after us. It was a really safe neighborhood. Reporter but then came that november morning when tracy manzer roared over there in her car. I had no idea what i was going to what i was going to find. But i knew based on how i was told about it, that it was going to be something, you know, very bad. Reporter oh, and it was. I was barely out of my car before i saw the homicide lieutenant, the homicide sergeant, two commanders and, obviously, a bank of black and whites. So my first thought was there was an officerinvolved shooting. Either an officer had been shot and killed, or an officer had shot someone. Reporter but no, not that. No. What really happened was far stranger than that. Long beach Police Department. Yes, id like to report i believe we have an attempted breakin going on at the moment. Reporter it was a neighbor who saw it, like the start of some dreadful shock movie, rolling out in slow motion. It was 11 03 a. M. Its taking place at my neighbors, which is the house just to the west of me. Okay. One just west to you. Yes. Its the schockner residence. Reporter the schockners. The callers nextdoor neighbors. Several cops responded, were there in minutes. And as they talked to the 911 caller, they heard and saw a Little White Dog barking incessantly from a window at the schockners house. It was a Little American eskimo or something thats called. Yeah, not a very large dog. Yap, yap, yappie dog. Reporter a petiteframed woman came to the window to see what her dog was barking at. An officer gestured to her, come outside. Clearly bewildered, she finally opened the door. So he is telling her that they got a call from a neighbor that they saw a prowler. And would it be okay if they looked in her backyard and looked around the house. She had said that was fine. Reporter but hold on, the woman said to the police, let me grab the key. The gate is locked. So she closes the front door, walks through the house and walks out the back door. Reporter three cops waited outside the front door. Two more cops pulled in right here in the alley behind the house. And then, to their great surprise, the prowler jumped over the backyard wall practically into their arms. They searched him. They found jewelry in his pocket and a taser and a cell phone and a knife with blood on it. The cops out front waited for the woman to return. She didnt. Ten seconds. 20 seconds. Did a minute go by . They decided, time to go in. They opened the door, looked through the house. And what they saw was not just terrible, but a riddle, a deception, a piece of pure evil. Deception, a piece of pure evil. What could have happened in that house while it was surrounded by Police Officers . I didnt believe it. I thought it was a joke. Until your father arrived with tears in his eyes. That is when i knew something was wrong. My day starts well before im in the kitchen. 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Ng and we care about amazing taste. Because at best foods, were on the side of food. saved money on motorcycle insurance with geico. Goin up the country. Later, gary i have a motorcycle wonderful. Im goin up the country, baby dont you wanna go . Im goin up the country, baby dont you wanna go . Geico motorcycle, great rates for great rides. It was a mild day that particular november 8th. California weather. Not quite noon. And as usual, it was quiet in bixby knolls here in long beach. Quiet. And in that quiet more menacing than anybody understood. As police, responding to a call about a prowler, waited outside the front door, neither they nor the halfawake homeowner sensed the jeopardy as she closed the door in their faces and went in search of a key for the gate to the yard. Seconds ticked by. The dog barked. The woman didnt return. So the cops, still not getting it, went in. Too late. She was attacked and she was killed right then and there while the officer was on her front porch. Reporter just extraordinary. Yes. Reporter the victims name was Lynn Schockner. She was 50 years old. When they found her lying quite dead just outside her own back door, they could clearly see the bright red gash across her throat. How was it possible . The policemen were just outside her front door and more cops were in alert mode out in the alley, but the only apparent witness to the silent murder of Lynn Schockner was lynns little dog, zoe. Horrified officers found her lying by lynns side, her white coat spattered red. Back at police headquarters, long beach cops, like undercover man kris nelson, heard the chatter. We were sitting in the office. And we used to have a police radio on in the office listening to whats going on in the street. Reporter this was bad. We were right down the hall from homicide. And you know, knew right away that this turned into a callout, you know, where somebody got killed. Reporter now, crisis mode. Detective Richard Birdsall took the call. Get down there, fast. Your first thought at that time. Do you remember what it was . Its just its a burglary gone awry. Reporter did you have at the same sense, how the hell could we screw up like that . Like anybody else, youre trying to discern why she did what she did and what did the officers say. What was the conversation . Reporter oh, yes, there were lots of questions. This would be ugly. Why did she go back in the house . Why did the cops let her . Why didnt they move in faster . How could they let the murder happen right under their noses . That was really disturbing, and, you know, you hate to second judge another cop, but there were mistakes made. Reporter after all, a neighbor reported a prowler in the back alley. A prowler who may have sneaked into her house. But she, the victim, didnt seem to believe that. She had a little little eskimo dog that barked at butterflies. And theres nobody in the backyard. This dog would have alerted me to anybody. But reporter she was wrong. She was wrong. Reporter lynns son charlie was a freshman in high school then. He was sitting in math class. Somebody told him he was wanted in the principals office. On the way there he thought he was in trouble. And then when they told him i didnt believe it. I thought it was a joke. Reporter until your father arrived with tears in his eyes. That was when i knew something was wrong. Reporter his father manfred, or fred as most people call him, came to take charlie home. How was your father . Upset. I mean, he was definitely he was crying. He couldnt drive. You know, i didnt really have eyes for him in that moment, with the reporter youre just a mess. Yeah. Reporter and charlie still could not believe what he was hearing. It really didnt set in really until i actually saw the house and then it really just all came crashing down. Reporter his home was a crime scene. The house was taped off, and theres people going in and out of the house. A lot of neighbors around. Like everything you see on tv. Reporter you never think its going to be you. Oh, no, no, no, no. Its surreal. Very much so. Reporter what does that loss feel like . Yeah. I cant put it into words. It was tremendous. It was awful. I immediately call mark, and im babbling on the phone. Like i cant even speak. Reporter mark jicha is charlies uncle, lynns brother. After the initial shock, theres disbelief. I didnt burst into tears right away. I didnt start screaming. I was just stunned. Reporter lynn grew up in ohio. She was the baby of the family, the only girl. Here she is with her two older brothers, jon and mark. But lynn was not like them. She was a tentative girl, whereas my brother and i were very outgoing. Reporter their father died young. Lynn often fought with her mother. Codependent. Love hate. Call it what you want. Reporter she got married, moved to california with a brand new husband. It didnt work out. Ended pretty quickly. But then one day she went to a ball game, dodgers versus somebody, who knows . And she found him. The right guy. Her guy. Fred schockner. He was almost 14 years older than she was but didnt seem to matter. Didnt hurt either that fred was a very successful man. Anyway, this time it clicked. They had an intimate wedding on a boat off the california coast. The captain did the honors, and they lived alone together in that house in bixby knolls until finally, after 11 years, they had a son who grew up to be charlie. As parents, they encouraged him to try new things. It was one of the olympics. And we were watching gymnastics, and i turned around to my parents and go, im going to do that. And i think like a month later i enrolled in gymnastics. So it was very much a supportive environment. Reporter and lynn doted on her only son. It might be trite to say this, but she loved him more than life itself. He was the center of her universe. Reporter so after what happened, mark flew out to california right away to comfort charlie and fred, and to make funeral arrangements for his only sister lynn. And at the very same time, as if in another world altogether, a world devoted to the minutia of violent crime, detective Richard Birdsall poked around the entrails of this burglary gone bad. He could perhaps write up a report, be done with it, make the growing bad press go away. But no, Richard Birdsall was a troubled man. We said, we know somethings wrong. My partner and i just feel somethings wrong. But we dont know yet. Reporter wrong . Well, of course it was. But the wrong the detective had in mind was not the grief or the loss or the vitriol thrown at the police. No, it was almost like a smell. The kind that sticks in your nose. Something off. Coming up one of the strangest things of all was the alleged killer himself. Not your typical burglar. In his words, he always wanted to be a cop. And this wasnt your typical burglary. I worked Burglary Division for four years but ive never had one come with a device thats used simply for killing. A gold, ooh. Nashville hot. Which one is it . Nashville hot, ooh. Georgia gold, ooh. Nashville hot. Dont ask me im just a painting. Try both delicious flavors at kfc. Young charlie was a lucky kid to grow up in a place like bixby knolls. Treelined streets, beautiful neighborhood. Its a wonderful place to grow up. Would ride my skateboard all around the block, take my dog with me. Reporter he was lucky, too, to have lynn for a mother. How did she make you feel . I guess how a parent should. Reporter safe. Safe, happy, welcome, loving. Just good. Reporter but now lynn shockner was gone. Killed in a burglary. And charlie, just 14 and grief stricken, was so angry at the police. Well, you didnt do your job. How could how could that happen with you being right there . Thats just negligence. Reporter charlie was far from the only one. This was a broad daylight murder. Police officers just outside the front door when it happened. I can imagine that people would be kind of upset in the neighborhood. A burglar had been there. Robbed a house and killed a woman and the cops couldnt prevent it. Right. I think the majority of the neighborhood was just stunned and shocked by the violence. You know, how does somebody whos in her own home die within a matter of seconds with officers all around her home . Reporter tracys paper, the Long Beach Press telegram, was reporting on the community backlash. There was fear and, of course, anger. Cops often tend to pull together in the face of a thing like that, but in private . Harsh judgments, said the undercover cop, kris nelson. Im sorry. You just dont let her go back into a situation like that. Its police 101. Reporter what . At the very minimum, you go with her. Reporter so what was the feeling in the department when this happened . They [ bleep ] up. Reporter detective Richard Birdsall, use to asking tough questions, suddenly found himself answering them. You would think that the department would kind of adopt a bit of a defensive stance at this point. Because you know the publics going to say, what the hell was going on here . Why did you guys let that happen, right . Yeah, they did, you know, because theyre trying to defend the officers. And they didnt do anything wrong. You were waiting for someone to bring you the key. They waited a short period of time, within a minute. You know, theyre yelling for her, maam, can you come back . Hello . Where are you . Reporter just a minute or so. Enough for lynn to surprise the burglar, who stabbed her in the neck and grabbed some jewelry, and ran into the arms of the police. The detective prowled around the crime scene. We see that in the bedroom drawers were being opened, jewelry. Things are thrown around. So a lot of things in disarray. Reporter looked like a standard daytime burglary gone horribly bad, of course, when lynn encountered the robber. But one thing stood out like well, like a bloody knife. I worked Burglary Division for four years. But ive never had one come with a device thats used simply for for killing. Reporter so, time to focus on that socalled burglar caught with a bloody knife in his pocket. Name was nicholas harvey. He was 22 years old. And this was unusual. He didnt have a criminal background. Hed never been in trouble with the law before. Reporter seemed like a reasonably nice young man . Yeah, very personable. I mean, he came across that way. He wanted to ingratiate himself with us as law enforcement. And you know, in his words, he always wanted to be a cop sometime in his life. Reporter and here, hes robbing and killing a woman. Correct. Reporter hed been an athlete in high school, still worked out a lot. Was a personal trainer at his local gym. He was a big musclebound sort of character . Correct. Reporter from port hueneme . Port hewn emmy. Reporter but thats way up the coast. Thats up by yeah, by ventura. Reporter in other words, about 70 miles from the crime scene. But why would he commit a robbery so far away from home . Thats one of the flags that immediately came up. Reporter when detective birdsall and his partner first asked him, nick gave them an answer that, frankly, still didnt make sense. We came at him. And you know, his initial story was, oh, i heard this was a good area. Reporter really . There wasnt a good area closer to home . Well then nick gave them another answer. He wanted to get out of his area. And he worked at a local gym up there where hes a gym rat and worked out with Police Officers and did martial arts with Police Officers. He felt they would recognize him. Reporter when he said that, did it seem plausible . No. It wasnt plausible at all. Reporter and one other thing. Remember how, when Police Arrested him, they found jewelry in his pocket . Turned out it was fake. Even though lynn had lots of real diamonds right there to be taken along with other valuable items. If youre going to do a daytime burglary and you just killed somebody, youre going to make the effort to get the good stuff. But he didnt. Reporter so, either nick harvey was the worlds worst burglar, or burglary wasnt the point of his visit. The detectives pushed him hard. But he didnt want to change his story. We went at him for hours, and we walked out of there going this is not what it seems to be. Reporter just a hunch, of course. No way to prove it. Until 70 miles up the coast, a man picked up the phone to call the police. Coming up a family feud. I wrote that letter. I signed the letter. I handed it to my sister. And i dared her to give it to him. What was that all about . Brome caused by overactive nerves. Lyrica is believed to calm these nerves. Im glad my doctor prescribed lyrica. 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So i just started poking around on ancestry. Then, i decided to have my dna tested through ancestry dna. It turns out im scottish. So, i traded in my lederhosen for a kilt. When its time to toddlers see things a bit differently thanks to pampers easy ups while they see their first underwear you see an easy way to potty train pampers easy ups our first and only training underwear with an all around stretchy waistband and pampers superior protection so youll see fewer leaks and theyll see their first underwear pampers easy ups, an easy way to underwear pampers that one. This. That one. Detective Richard Birdsall didnt believe for a moment that he was investigating a burglary gone bad. For one thing, a guy doesnt travel 70 miles just to break into a house. But for all his suspicions, birdsall couldnt prove a thing. That is, until a man who knew nick harvey called the police and said nick harvey came to him and offered him some money, several hundred dollars to say hey, can you drive me down to long beach . Reporter he agreed. They met at a park and ride parking lot, and he drove nicks car. The driver also said nick told him why he needed to go to long beach. Nick harvey said he was an enforcer for the local drug dealers up there. So he thought he was coming down just for that one reason. Reporter honestly, he had no idea the agenda included murder, said the driver. He never knew that he was going to come down to take someones life. Reporter of course, the guy was probably lying. So they put him under arrest. Anyway, his claim that he thought he was driving a drug enforcer didnt make a lick of sense. The notion that suburban housewife Lynn Schockner was somehow tangled up with drug dealers and had been targeted for execution was frankly preposterous. Lynn had been living a quiet life for 25 years, married to a man with a lot going for him. He was a wealthy man. Reporter for years, fred earned top dollar in the aerospace industry. Not to mention all the family money he inherited. They were able to afford things that none of us growing up could possibly afford. We were blue collar working class people, and we didnt know many millionaires growing up. Reporter he bought her things, jewelry and that sort of thing . Well, right out of the gate they bought a very nice home in an exclusive suburb of long beach, bixby knolls. So that was a big step up. Reporter mark remembers flying out to see lynn after she got married. She was dying to show off her home, show off her new life. Reporter lynn seemed happy, said mark. She set out i think with special determination, having had her first marriage not last, to make this one work and function. Reporter to make a complete family, a desire that only intensified once charlie came along. She wanted her son to be the best person he could be. And would stop at nothing to make sure that he got that. Reporter around bixby knolls the schockners were considered a perfectly normal, if upscale, family. Certainly not the kind of people who would be targeted by drug dealers. Of course, members of the family had a slightly more intimate perspective. Mark, for example, loved his sister but found fred a little obnoxious. He wasnt shy about dropping hints about the extent of his holdings. Reporter mark didnt see them very often. He lived way across the country in georgia. But when he did come to visit in long beach, and they went out for dinner, fred always managed to monopolize the conversation, then somehow, stick mark with the bill. Cheap. Totally opinionated. Absolutely selfinvolved. Reporter so, when he invited lynn and charlie to visit him in georgia i basically told my sister not to bother to bring him. Stay as long as she wanted. Leave her old man at home. Reporter and on one of those visits, mark told lynn exactly how he felt. I said, how can you let someone run your life and forget about yourself . Reporter afterwards, he sat down and wrote many of the same things in a harshly worded letter to fred. I wrote that letter. I signed the letter. I handed it to my sister, and i dared her to give it to him. Reporter did you think she actually would . I didnt know, but she did. Reporter that took guts. It did. It did. Reporter and frankly, mark was pleased when, a few years later, after a quarter century of marriage, lynn told him they were splitting, and fred moved out of the house in bixby knolls. She changed somehow after your father left . She seemed freer, seemed happier, more able to get excited, just really interested in everything and very lighthearted. Reporter but her happiness was shortlived. And when mark first heard she was murdered, his mind went to a very dark place. Could fred have had something to do with it . But as much as he disliked fred, he just couldnt see it. There were no connections in their personal life to this person that committed the crime. Reporter no, it seemed pretty clear, fred had nothing to do with lynns murder. Besides, lynn changed the locks on the house after fred moved out. Could it be that someone she hired to install some protection actually came back to rob her and wound up killing her . After all, such a person would have seen that lynn had valuable things around her house in this very nice neighborhood. The neighborhood had everything a burglar wanted to find. Private yards. Reporter sure. Wealthy homes. Reporter and she had the worst of possible luck in that he picked her. Yes. Reporter and now, the family came together in grief. And when he saw fred we hugged, traded condolences. Reporter within five or ten minutes, he mentioned the letter. He said, do you still believe that . I said, no, thats water over the bridge. We need to get on with our family. We need to stick together. Reporter fred moved back into the family home. He and charlie and the rest of the family leaned on each other. While around the neighborhood people absorbed the news that police had the driver, a possible accomplice, in custody. Neighbors wondered, were more people involved . There was concern that there were others that might come back to more houses and more homes and that they were violent. Reporter but that fear soon turned to anger when another bit of news swept through bixby knolls. That police let the driver go. Detectives were convinced nick harvey didnt have a motive to commit murder, but just maybe someone else did. My partner discovered that there was a person that he talked to multiple times right before the murder. My checkups go well, but i want awesome so my dentist told me about this. Go pro with crest hd. Crest hd cleans and whitens my teeth to eyepopping levels. Crest hd. 6x cleaning, 6x whitening. I did it, i did it, i impressed the dentist. Hey, guys. Where are the cookies for the. Bake sale . Bake. Bake sale . Need to bake in a hurry . Use new country crock buttery sticks with sunflower oil. Theres no softening required. So baking is delicious and easy. Ooh, cookies ah, ah, ah laughter ever since Lynn Schockner was murdered in her own home as police stood outside, criticism of the long beach Police Department had been intense. Emotions raw. The officers were extremely upset. My understanding was one of the officers who was on the call had had a nervous breakdown or, you know, an episode like that afterward because it was just too much for him. Reporter detective Richard Birdsall knew, even as he investigated lynns murder, that her family was angry with the police. Yeah, they were. They were upset, like every anybody would be, and like the press. I mean, everybody else was upset with us, that we didnt do our job to protect someones life. Because thats ultimately what were supposed to do. Reporter lynns husband, fred, even threatened to sue the long beach pd for not protecting his wife. And so detective birdsall knew hed take even more heat when the news leaked out that police had arrested an alleged accomplice of the suspected killer and then, just as quickly, released him. But thats exactly what birdsall did. Release the man who admitted hed driven the killer to the crime scene. But the detective had a plan. We actually put an active feed on his on his phone. We want to find out who hes talking to. We have the driver. We have the killer. Now we want to find out if theres more people involved. Reporter detective birdsall didnt believe nick harvey was a drug enforcer. Just didnt buy it. So he hoped that by releasing the driver and tapping his phone he could uncover what was really going on. There was just one problem. After he was let go, the driver didnt reach out to anyone. The only person he ever spoke to was nick harvey. Reporter no, the driver was not part of a larger web. He had nothing whatever to do with lynns murder. So he was telling the truth. It turned out, yes. Reporter dead end. So they kept on digging into nicks background. And remember, this was a guy with a clean record. He came off like a perfectly ordinary young man. We talked to the family. I mean, they were all incredulous that he would ever do Something Like that. Reporter nicks family. Nicks family, correct. Reporter incredulous . It didnt fit him. Didnt fit his persona. Never thought he would be capable of doing Something Like this. Reporter so when you asked his family about him, how did they characterize him . At that time, he worked out a lot. He was doing steroids, but just didnt really have a focus in life. He actually was a trainer for the local gym up there. And thats all he did. I mean, he worked did a bouncer at a bar. Not in trouble with the law. He wasnt someone that attracted trouble to himself. Reporter but somehow hed found plenty of trouble. Police started to figure out how when they subpoenaed his phone records. My partner discovered that there was a person that he had talked to Frank Jaramillo and multiple times right before the murder. Reporter Frank Jaramillo . Correct. Reporter Frank Jaramillo, aka el cubano, once managed the gym where nick trained. Odd person to call just before committing a murder, unless, of course, he was in on it. How to find out . Step one, said kris nelson, go back to nick harvey. Lean on him a little bit. You got to talk to this guy before he gets arraigned. Because once hes arraigned, youre screwed. Hes going to get an attorney. Reporter sure. And his attorneys going to tell him to shut up. Reporter just what birdsall and his partner were thinking. So they confronted nick again. Now two days after lynns murder. You need to be fully truthful with my partner and i right now because its only going to, you know, benefit you to tell the truth. This is getting uglier and uglier. We went at him one last time. Tell us your story. He reiterates almost exactly what he said before. Reporter which was that he killed Lynn Schockner because the burglary he tried to carry out went bad. The cops still didnt buy it. Him and i been doing this a long time, nick. You need to take nick and your responsibility now. Take care of nick now please. Be truthful with us because were not going to stop, nick. Him and i, thats our job. Reporter and thats when nicks story started to change. I might as well break it down for you guys. I was hired to hit the house. I dont know why. I didnt ask. Reporter that is, said nick, he was hired to commit a burglary. One that, depending on what he could steal, might prove very profitable. Whats the amount you were promised . What was in the house plus uh, 2,500. Reporter b. S. , said the cops. He was hired to kill, and they knew it. Because those phone records told a very different story than he did. And finally, nick harvey cracked. And i remember nick harveys words like, yeah, you guys are good. You got me. Reporter just like that . Just like that. And then he cops out. Reporter yes, he said. Frank jaramillo, the guy they called el cubano, hired him to kill Lynn Schockner. Gave him 2,500 up front, promised 2,500 more when the job was done. Why a guy would commit murder for a measly five grand was one question, but a more urgent one was this. Who was this el cubano, really . And why would he pay a guy to kill a housewife in long beach . Its always the husband, right . But in this case police didnt seem to think so. The detective was very quick to assure me that they had no suspicions of that. I tabut with my back paines, i couldnt sleep and get up in time. Then i found aleve pm. 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Bounce, to dry. Yeah he would be a less wrinkly, and winning at life. The plan had been as simple as it was ugly. Nick harvey, in exchange for just 5,000, was to kill a long beach housewife named Lynn Schockner, stage it like a burglary, and then get away clean. Instead, nick was in jail facing murder charges and detectives were prying apart a conspiracy. Nick had already told them hed been hired by a man named Frank Jaramillo, who went by el cubano. They wanted the job done, wanted the burglary staged. Reporter nick met el cubano at an el torito restaurant, he said, where he was paid half up front. What did you do with that money . I moved. So i had to pie a bunch of new bedroom stuff. Reporter hed spent the 2,500 on new furniture from a store called the couch potato. But when the time came to earn the rest of his money, to kill lynn, he said, for a moment he got cold feet. Truth be told, when i got there, i didnt want to do it at all. In fact, when i was sitting there, i was sitting actually back by the back of the door and i was [ bleep ] part is i actually thought about leaving right when she came up walking. Reporter thats when he went into Something Like fight or flight mode, he said, and he killed her. Then he quickly ran into the house pulled out some drawers, grabbed some jewels to make it look like a burglary. But then when he tried to escape, he discovered, to his horror, that the cops were, or appeared to be, waiting for him. So then, listen to this. Harvey had a question for the detectives. Can i ask you a question . I dont know if you guys can answer this. Howd you get there so fast . Neighbor. Theres people in the neighborhood. Someone saw you get out of the car. Did you know the cops were even out there . Not until i got back over the wall and i saw the van. And when i saw the van thats when i said, this has got to be a set up. Reporter that is, he thought he was being double crossed by his friend frank, aka el cubano. Thats why he decided to stick to the botched burglary story, he said. Maybe hed just get Second Degree murder. And once he got out of prison, he was going to find frank and take care of him myself. Reporter the detectives played along, of course. Let nick dream up whatever Conspiracy Theory made him happy. But meanwhile, they requisitioned el cubanos phone records, and they found something quite surprising. Not only had Frank Jaramillo been talking with nick harvey, but he also had talked to the husband. Reporter Fred Schockner. Fred schockner. Reporter Fred Schockner, lynns husband of 25 years. On the surface, it didnt make much sense. After all, fred had been cooperative with detectives from day one. And yes, he had moved out of the family house, but he told them the break was amicable. She was my best friend, he said. And yet, not long after the murder, yuck charlie sought out detective birdsall and whispered an awful question. Did my dad have something to do with this . Reporter charlie remembers what they told him. The detective was very quick to assure me that they have no suspicions of that. They dont think that would be something that was happening. And if they had thought that, that they would already have looked into it and not to worry about that. Reporter is that what detectives really believed . Well, no. We had to sit there and look at him in the eye and say, well catch everybody who was involved. Reporter but not say, we suspect him . Exactly. Reporter they believed they simply couldnt tell charlie or the rest of the family what they were discovering. Afraid that fred would find out and stop talking to them. So charlie stayed at home with his father. His uncle mark was allowed, even encouraged, to believe that fred was not involved, even as the detectives were getting the real story from the hit man, nick harvey. Did you know who talked to cubano regarding this . Yeah. Who did . Her husband. Reporter so doesnt that mean that you can now go out and arrest jaramillo and Fred Schockner . Charge them all with murder right then. We wish. But remember, its a coconspirator statement. I have no facts. Ive got a statement from one person. Reporter that person, nick harvey, was an admitted killer and demonstrated liar. And with the Police Department under so much scrutiny, they didnt dare arrest anybody without solid proof. Just think of the scandal if, on top of everything else, the prosecution failed. They did find freds Business Card in harveys wallet, but that wasnt enough either. Meanwhile, the public and lynns family would be encouraged to believe it was a simple case of a burglary gone bad, a murder the cops should have prevented. I couldnt go out there and defend my department, as much as i wanted to. Reporter you couldnt say anything. And i cant tell the press. I cant tell i mean, we cant defend ourselves because the suspects, the persons of interest, are the ones were looking at. We dont want to alert them. We dont want them to get lawyers. Reporter and so, inside and outside the long beach pd, the pressure was on. And my department wanted a quick resolve because we have a black eye. The press was just beating us up daily because of what we did. Reporter so the clock was ticking. Detectives needed to prove the murderforhire plot, and they needed to do it fast. So that was the whole game is trying to play cat and mouse, trying to get more. We want to get them to talk. We want to get them to communicate. Reporter but wasnt going to happen, by the look of it. Even though they kept talking to fred. We kept going to the husband. Reporter playing dumb, of course, but hoping hed panic and call el cubano. I mean, at the point we were calling almost every day but, again, trying to give a reason so he wouldnt become more suspicious than what he was. Reporter oh, just one more question, sir. Exactly. I felt like columbo. Oh, one more, sir. Reporter this was a game, of course, with deadly consequences. And it was about to get real. Coming up fred and frank finally start talking. We had like 60plus phone conversations between them. How are you doing, bud . It has been a rotten, rotten time. But will it help detectives catch a killer . Bounty is more absorbent, so the roll can last 50 longer than the leading ordinary brand. So you get more life per roll. Bounty the quicker picker upper. Trusted battery for your sons favorite toy . T maybe not. Maybe, you could trust he wouldnt leave the upstairs water running. woman screams or, you could just trust duracell. So i trust nature made vitamins. Health and life. Because they were the first to be verified by usp for quality and purity standards. And because i recommend them as a pharmacist. Nature made, the 1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand. Returning to our story, a reporter death has a way of bringing people together, as it did in the case of Lynn Schockner. She was a private woman, had very few friends beyond her son charlie. And yet . We had a big service for her. It was amazing how many people came out for my mother. It was nice. I just remember i at that point i couldnt even cry. It was just still just depressed and shocked. And i felt bad for that for a long time, but reporter thats pretty normal. Yeah. Reporter did the tears come . Yeah, it took a while, but they did. Reporter meanwhile, detective Richard Birdsall was chipping away at the case but far too slowly for the likes of his bosses at the beleaguered long beach Police Department still under fire for not preventing a murder. The detectives had found some connections among the three suspected conspirators but not nearly enough to go to court. You have a murder for hire. Okay, now youve got to go arrest everybody. Id love to. But do i have probable cause . No, i really dont. Ive got to prove more. Reporter so the detectives kept dropping in on fred, all very nonthreatening. And then finally, they asked him if he happened to know anyone in the port hueneme area. Thats where hit man nick harvey lived. And fred said, yes, he did. The man he knew, he said, was Frank Jaramillo, just a guy he met when frank managed a gym in long beach. In fact, said fred, he had bought a used bmw from frank for 25,000 and frank was going to deliver the car when he returned if an overseas business trip. In new delhi. Of course, from phone records the cops knew perfectly well that frank, aka, el cubano, was in fact at home, about 50 miles north of long beach in woodland hills. But fred kept talking. And ever more chatty volunteered he left frank more than 100,000, which made sense given what detectives had already learned about frank. He said it was for watches and living a lifestyle of the rich and famous. He really didnt have a fulltime job. Reporter but if frank thought he was taking advantage of fred, the detectives believed it was just the opposite. I think Fred Schockner wanted to own Frank Jaramillo in some way. Reporter so frank already had the 100,000. Now hes on the hook big time to fred. And fred says to get off the hook, you got to make this happen . Correct. Reporter then the slates wiped clean. Absolution of all debt. Reporter so in the detectives view, fred was the mastermind, using his Financial Leverage to manipulate frank who in turn hired nick for a Bargain Basement price. But fred still didnt know the cops even suspected him, didnt have any idea, for example, that they were tapping his phone. So when fred actually began calling the cops to play mr. Cooperative, they recorded every word. Hello, officer. This is Fred Schockner. Hey, mr. Schockner, how are you doing . There has never been anything as bad as this in my life. Oh, right, right. And i hope there never will be. I dont blame you. But you asked me a couple of questions and let me give you some information. Okay. The check that i wrote to frank was cashed on october 29th. That was 5,000. That was for the bmw. That was for the bmw. Reporter and look at this. On the check theres a note that indicates the bmw would be delivered between 11 7 and 8. Lynn was murdered on the 8th of november. I called them today and asked about the status of the car on the voice mail. You didnt happen to ask him if he was back in the country, did you . No, i just left him a voice mail. Reporter does it sound like fred is having fun toying with the cops . Any other questions you have for us at this time . Happy fishing. Why is it going so long . Thats a good question. Because the fishing isnt answering, right . Well, like i said, i told you from the beginning, its a Pretty Simple case. Hold on a second, the other lines ringing. Reporter in the middle of the conversation, fred got another call, from Frank Jaramillo. Fred puts him on hold, continues to speak with the detective. Even offering a theory about the killer. Nick harvey. You know the kid from port hueneme may have been someone that was associated with the lock change, it may have been someone that was associated with someone she met and tried to help. Exactly. Reporter fred hung up with the detective and picked up his cell phone to talk to jaramillo. That call was also recorded. Hello. Did you hear a lot of that . Kind of. Okay. Good. I dont need to talk about it. Okay. How are you doing, bud . It has been a rotten, rotten time. All the so much sympathy and so much activity surrounding it. Its unbelievable. Reporter so just as the cops had been hoping, fred and frank talked, but not a word from either one to establish they were involved in a murder. We had like 60plus phone conversations between them. Reporter youre tapping them all. Were tapping them all. Reporter but they just didnt slip up. So it was time, the detectives decided, to launch the undercover squad led by kris nelson. I was armed with information now. Nick harveys told the homicide guys whats up. Theyve told me. So now if youre frank and fred, frick and frack. Reporter yeah. Your biggest concern is that nicks caught. Reporter yeah. Of course. You want to make sure hes not going to say anything. What does he have to trade. Reporter first detective nelson decided hed phone Fred Schockner himself and pretend to be the hired killer, nick harvey. How did you go about doing this . I went to county jail and i used one of their inmate phones because i wanted the prerecording that says, youre receiving a call from a california penal institution, blah, blah, blah. And he hung up on me i think the first time. There was a pause there where they ask you if youre willing to accept. And he said no, click. Then i waited about five minutes and i call him again. Reporter and this time fred took the call. I said im the guy that did the work at your house for you and im going to need my other half. Im going to need my money, you know, for an attorney. He says, you already have it. I said no. And he said, well, you need to talk to your guy. Reporter your guy. He could only mean Frank Jaramillo. But he didnt say the words. Didnt say anything incriminating. And so, he tried something different. Much riskier. Time to get uncle john involved. Detectives set a trap. Im the one that can keep nick quiet. Youre going to give me money. But will frank walk into it . I really dont have money to help him out. After days of repeated calls and interviews with Fred Schockner, detectives had at best foods, we care about sourcing 100 of our oils responsibly. And we care about incredible taste. Because at best foods, were on the side of food. Start the interview with a firm handshake. Ay,no dont do that try head shoulders instant relief. It cools on contact, and also keeps you 100 flake free. Try head shoulders instant relief. For cooling relief in a snap. After days of repeated calls and interviews with Fred Schockner, detectives had elicited some tantalizing details, but not enough evidence to arrest him for lynns murder. So they decided to focus on suspected middleman, Frank Jaramillo, el cubano. Undercover cop kris nelson had a plan to set a trap to make frank believe he was about to be fingered by the hit man, nick harvey. So hed phone frank, and portray himself as a relative of nicks with a past of my own, not particularly liking cops, you know, im the one that can keep nick quiet. And what are you going to give me in exchange for that . Youre going to give me money. Reporter afraid frank would recognize the trap and hang up on him, detective nelson elected to make up a very unthreatening persona. So i thought, well, ill be uncle john. You know, that his mother sent down from the bay area to see whats really going on and whats harvey got himself into. Reporter so uncle john places a call to el cubano. Hey, uh, frank . Yes. Frank, hey. Hey, my names john. Reporter now to set the trap. Hed say nick needs money for a lawyer. He seems to think you or fred will help him out. He didnt want a [ bleep ] public defender. Okay. Reporter frank tells uncle john he knows nick, but hes more of an acquaintance. I dont, you know, i really dont have money to help him out. Reporter at first frank doesnt seem to take the bait. Yeah, if i can help him in any way i understand, i would but im sorry, i apologize, i cant. Reporter but then, carefully, uncle john reels him in. Well, he seemed to think that if somebody didnt reach out to him he told me not so much you, but he told me to have you tell fred that if he didnt get some help pretty soon, he was going to go to the cops. Okay. Give me a call tomorrow and ill see what i can do to help you, partner. Reporter but after all that, frank did not make the all important and incriminating call to Fred Schockner asking for money. And so the very next day uncle john tried again. Hey, did you get a hold of fred . No, but between you and i, i dont mind taking care of him, bud. Reporter frank asked for time and agreed to meet uncle john in person to hand over some money. Do you know where the Thousand Oaks malls at . Thousand oaks mall. Its off of lynn road. Lynn . Yes, off the 101. Reporter lynn road, the irony was apparently lost on Frank Jaramillo. It was midmorning, late november. Detective nelson was worried. Would he show up . You sit in the parking lot by yourself and you kind of go over and sure, your heart races a little bit. I mean, its crunch time and you feel like everybodys kind of depending on you to get this done. You want it to go well. Reporter so the idea is youre reeling them in like a fisherman . Yep. Reporter but there are times when you dont know whats going to happen . Right. You know . Could have a fray in the line. Have it break. Had that happen a few times. Reporter but not this time. There was frank in a brand new lexus suv. Frank . Yeah, thats me. Thats not an i. S. Reporter an i. S. , referring to the less expensive car he said hed be driving. Oh, yeah. My wife took the other car this morning. Thats sweet. Now i know what you spent your money on. Reporter money from Fred Schockner, is what the cop meant. Frank did not take that bait. I gotta get going. Reporter hard to tell from the video, but frank coughs up the money. I got a grand for you right now because theyre still monitoring my accounts. Who is . [ bleep ] detectives. Are they looking at you . Yeah. Reporter detective birdsall was inside a van listening to the whole thing go down. And when you finally get Something Like that, thats gold. That was the nail in his coffin. Reporter so the instant he offered that 1,000, you knew, i got him. Yep. We got him. He locked himself into it. Reporter and a couple of days later, detective birdsall and his partner paid frank a visit to snap their trap shut. They basically brace him with, you know, who is this guy john . And you know, its our understanding you gave him some money. And hes like, i dont know what youre talking about. Reporter ive never met any guy named john. Yeah, you know, i come into the room a few minutes later and reporter whoops. Yeah. It was like the oh look of the century like. Reporter then he realized youre a cop. Yeah. He just hung his head and he just looked sick. I think the whole world came crashing down at that point. You could see the look in his eyes, like, the deer in the headlights. And then he just started giving it all up. At home with Fred Schockner behind closed doors. You thought all families were like that . Yeah. Thats what families did. That one. This. That one. 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Nearly a month after Lynn Schockner was cut down at her own back door her killer was behind bars, but her husband fred was still a free man and back in the family home with charlie. The press was in the dark. Long beach was in the dark. No one seriously believed what the police now firmly believed that Fred Schockner ordered and paid for his own wifes murder. As charlies uncle mark said never in my wildest dreams, even after she was killed, because the circumstances, nothing pointed at fred. And the police did not point at fred. Reporter but, said detective Richard Birdsall, they had their reasons. We used them, in a lot of respects. You feel guilty because theyre beating their chests and theyre upset. And they had no idea that the father of charlie is the one that set the whole thing up. Reporter well, remember, maybe some idea. Yeah, i always had my suspicions. Reporter in spite of the fact that it was a burglar and the police said it was a burglar. Uhhuh. Reporter you still suspected your father . I didnt want to put it past him, as much as like, as a kid you dont want to suspect someone of that. It just seemed false. Like there were just little ticks of stuff that just seemed wrong. Reporter it started the day his mother was murdered when he and his dad surveyed the house ransacked during the burglary. He had me go back and clean up all the jewelry that had been overturned and spilled out. Reporter what does that do to your mind . It made me very numb, very numb. It was a task. And i did it, and then i went to bed. Reporter and your dad went to bed in the house with you. Uhhuh. Reporter charlie understood his father intimately, of course, and he alone knew the secret, understood his father in a way that had been hidden from the outside world for years. Charlie may have looked like any other happy suburban kid, but at home, he said, he understood normal life to be the constant expectation of moments of terror. Frequent, unpredictable rages. Abuse. A mother desperately trying to protect him. And so he would want to beat you with a belt, and she would try to prevent it, and that would produce an argument between them . And then he would beat her. Reporter how often . Often enough that as a child i knew what was going on. But then, that was normal, so i didnt know it was wrong. Reporter you thought all families were like that . Until i had friends really come over, and they noticed stuff, and it was weird for them to notice things and to comment on it. But yeah, it was always just thats what families did. Reporter year after year it went on, said charlie, until his mother came to whisper her own secret. She was finally going to leave fred. My mom was tucking me in at night when i was 12 or so, and she was talking about how she was thinking about doing this and that she was so nervous about doing it and didnt know if it was the right choice or what to do about it. Reporter whatd you think . My first thought was very excited because it was just great to be able to think of getting away from him. Reporter and then, finally, more than a year later lynn hired family law attorney lisa brandon. What did she tell you she wanted from you . She wanted a Fair Division of the property. Reporter but, said lisa, fred controlled all the finances. So she didnt know how much money they had as a family . No, no idea. Reporter how much money did they have, this family . Well, including the equity in the home, probably 6 million to 7 million. Reporter which in a legal separation by California Law would be split down the middle. But lisa said lynn told her fred would never part with any of that money. Lynn also told her about freds physical abuse. And so with a pending separation lisa worried about lynn and charlies safety. I wanted her to move out of the home with charlie. She wouldnt do it. She wouldnt leave her home. She wouldnt disrupt charlie. He was just starting high school. Theyd lived in the neighborhood forever. So she was a sitting target. Reporter did she understand that it was dangerous for her . Yes, yes. Reporter and yet, she went ahead and did it anyway . Thats how important getting out of that relationship was to her. She was willing to risk her life, and she told me that. Reporter lisa told lynn she should at least get a restraining order against fred. It wouldnt make a damn bit of difference. Reporter thats what she told you . Uhhuh. If hes going to kill me, hell kill me. Restraining orders wont stop him. Reporter too late now, of course. But what about charlie . The detectives, worried about his safety, called lynns brother mark. Hed gone back across the country to georgia. And urged him to invite charlie for an extended visit with him and his wife susan even though they did not tell mark about their suspicion. I was surprised. I am still to this day. That fred allowed that to happen, but he did. Reporter perhaps fred had more pressing things to think about. Whatever his reason he put charlie on a plane to georgia just in time for the main event in the murder investigation. Frank jaramillo, under arrest as the alleged middleman, was spilling it all, telling police he took money from lynns husband. A lot of it. And used a little of it to hire the killer, nick harvey. And then, with a little polite arm twisting, frank agreed to set a trap for the suspected mastermind, Fred Schockner. Wait a minute. Did you promise him something in exchange . Didnt promise him anything, no. Reporter so why would he do it . I think, in his mind, because we got him on everything else, he was trying to dig himself out of a hole. Reporter or maybe frank didnt understand how deep the hole was. As undercover cop kris nelson prepared frank for his big meeting with fred, el cubano got a call from his wife. He said, hey, im down here with cops and im helping them. And he goes, ill be home later. He actually thought he was still going home. He even told me, he goes, well, i didnt kill her. I almost wanted to slap him and go, no, you hired somebody else to. Reporter oh, he must have known. I mean, you got to be blind and deaf not to know that. Youd think. We used to laugh like is this guy for real . Reporter frank set it up, called freds land line, got the answering machine, still lynns voice. Hi, youve reached the schockners. Sorry we missed your call. Please leave a message after the tone and we will get back to you. Have a great day. Byebye. Hey, old man, its frank. Just wanted to come on by and see you and talk to you about a couple things so we can get a couple things straightened up. I would appreciate it. Im going to try you on your cell phone. Hello . Hello. Hello . You there . Yeah. Whats going on, bud . Nothing much. Reporter and they agreed to meet 7 30 in the evening at a local restaurant. Ill try to be there on time. All right, bud, thats all. Ill see you around 7 30, bud. Okay, bye. Reporter less than two hours later, frank, wearing the same hidden camera that the detective used to catch him, walked in to the restaurant to meet Fred Schockner. I set him up with the camera and the audio. And we got a table, a couple tables away, the three of us, to make sure that he didnt run. Reporter so you had your eyeballs on him. Yeah, and we wanted to see everybodys reaction and we had, of course, the audio. We had a Surveillance Team outside listening to everything. One problem. 7 30 came and went. Minutes ticked past. No fred. He was already really paranoid about being set up. Would he show . And what if he didnt . In the water, in the water you ready for this . She doesnt like it. You gotta get in there okay, okay careful not to get it in her eyes i know what a bath is. Smile honey this thing is like. First kid here we go second kid you coming in mommy . 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Reporter now all eyes were on frank and fred. And they both at this point look like theyve been rode hard and put away wet. I mean, just jaramillos tired looking and, you know, you can imagine the amount of stress that must be going through him. And then the old man who didnt look like he was doing particularly well either. Reporter did he look frightened or something . Yeah, they both looked scared. They both looked like trapped rats on a burning ship, you know . Reporter and as they feared, fred was suspicious. He sat down, said not a word. But hed written something on his note pad. At which point, Fred Schockner lifted that note up that says, are you wired . Im not. Very possible. I thought he was going to walk, you know . I thought, you know, this guys going to come to his senses and realize this reporter stand up and turn out and walk out the restaurant. But he didnt. Reporter he stayed. And they talked. Frank trying to get fred to admit his role, fred deflecting his attempts. You know, you and i would not be sitting here if you didnt want, if you didnt want lynn killed, you know that. I dont know what youre talking about. Reporter but frank kept going at him, and fred finally let something slip. Im scared, fred. I dont know, i understand youre scared, too. You have to understand. We would not be in this position if it wasnt for her. If it wasnt for lynn, we would not be here. Thats true. And if it hadnt been sloppy on nicks part, we wouldnt be here either. Reporter fred referring to nick harvey, the hired killer. For the first time connecting himself to lynns murder. But frank kept going after him, as if he knew they needed more. We wouldnt [ bleep ] be here if it wasnt for you. We would not be here. We wouldnt. And we wouldnt be here if it wasnt for the way things were [ bleep ] up by nick. He [ bleep ] got caught. Thats him. Hes doing the time for you. Like watching two old married couples arguing back and forth about whose fault it was that the dinner was cold or something. Reporter but of course, this argument was deadly serious. You have to understand, we need to [ bleep ] erase this problem. This is your problem, okay . You have to understand. Listen to me. No. Its not my problem. Its our problem. Isnt it . I would have to say its more your problem. Reporter fred was still very suspicious of frank and asked a few more times if he was wired. Frank, frustrated now, tried to goad him. I killed lynn . Youre saying that i killed lynn . Nope. You arranged. Youre saying i killed lynn. Nope. Who wanted her dead . Answer me that [ bleep ] question. Who wanted her dead . Who benefited from that, fred . Nobody. Reporter frank argued like a man who wasnt acting. Maybe he wasnt. Oh, really . Then who wanted her dead . Me . Answer me that [ bleep ] question. Who wanted her [ bleep ] dead . Not me. Reporter the tension between the two seemed to reach a breaking point. If you would back off and allow us to think and talk together. You have to understand thats why im here. No, what youre here is trying to incite me to do things. Oh really . You keep on saying this over and over. Okay, you know what, fred . Why dont you just go home . Whatever money i owe you, ill pay you back. I asked you a [ bleep ] question. You cannot answer it. Reporter and just as fred was walking away frank gave it one last shot. Why dont you [ bleep ] admit what you did wrong . I havent done anything wrong. Okay, and i did everything, right . No, you havent done anything, either, have you . No. Thats what you told me on the phone. You need to quiet nicks family. I dont have the cash for nicks family because you have all my cash. So if you want to give me the cash, im give it back to you and you can do what you want. Reporter and that was it. Maybe not exactly the words detective birdsall hoped to hear, but after weeks of dead ends and intense pressure, getting fred on tape saying those things finally made his case. What was the mood in the van you were sitting in . It was elation. We got enough. Reporter finally, enough evidence to arrest him. But they didnt. They let him go home just to see what hed do. Lets just see if he reaches out to somebody. Because now hes scared. Reporter back at the restaurant frank waited for an allclear signal from the detectives. And the waiter, whod frequently served the schockner family, stopped by to reminisce about lynn. Shes very nice, very funny. Reporter putting frank in a very uncomfortable spot. Theres nothing that anybody can say can reporter he wasnt able to complete his thought, and soon fred would be having a very different kind of conversation with the police. What a mess. And fred forgot to clean up. Didnt throw out his trash in time. No. Like a heart attack or stroke. 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Hed just recently married a wonderful woman, a school teacher, who had no idea what her husband had done or what he was facing. Theres nothing thats going to happen if we both maintain our cool. Reporter but it was too late for that. Frank did not go home to his wife that evening. He submitted to a pair of handcuffs and was carted off to jail. And fred, well, fred did go home under the watchful eye of the undercover cops, who also conducted a thorough search of the restaurant for those notes fred wrote. They found nothing. Nor did fred contact anyone else that evening. And so the next morning we just showed up 9 00 in the morning and caught him in his pajamas and disheveled. I mean, you could tell he hadnt slept a lot that night. Reporter he look shocked, worried, upset . Very shocked and very upset. Why were we there . And, you know, our response is, were here to arrest you. Reporter they took him away. And when they searched his house, they found one last piece of evidence in a trash can. One of those notes fred scribbled in the restaurant. Sloppy nick, it said. He didnt throw out his trash in time. Nope. Reporter across the country in georgia, charlie got the news. Yeah, that was another kind of happy moment, to be honest. Reporter thats quite a place to get to in life, when youre happy that your fathers been arrested for murder, the murder of your mother, mind you. Yeah. Its reporter i mean no one wants to no one would want to actually say, gosh, yeah, thats a good thing, but after everything growing up with him in the house, it seems like a little bit of justice. Reporter almost three years after lynns death the three men charged with her murder finally went on trial. And detective Richard Birdsall and undercover cop kris nelson, both retired now, were there. Its always nice to see a case all the way through, and see it in, you know, in my opinion, see people get, you know, get what they got coming to them. Reporter do they give you a special weird look . You now when they walked into court the only one that looked good that day, like rested and fine, was nick harvey. You could tell he had come to terms with what hed done. He knew he was never going to see the light of day again. The other two were really struggling with it. They looked really beat. They were so different, the three of them. They were a very unlikely trio of criminals. Reporter wendy thomas russell, a reporter for the Long Beach Press telegram at the time, covered all three trials. Nick harveys was first. I would have to say he was more brawn than brain. And i dont mean that to be insensitive, but this is a guy who took the witness stand in his own defense and he said that he aspired to be a hit man. That he reporter he said that on the witness stand . Yes. Reporter what did you think . I thought youre not the brightest bulb of the marquee. Reporter no kidding. So he said that hed toyed around with being a hit man, that he idolized the hulk as a child, the incredible hulk. And he said that he had taken steroids just to get bigger and stronger. And you know, its was very hard for the jury to have sympathy for him. Reporter and they didnt. The jury found him guilty in about 35 minutes. Firstdegree murder and burglary. Next was Frank Jaramillo. He said that he wouldnt have done it had schockner not threatened his wife and his inlaws. Reporter so this was he did it out of fear then . Yeah, he said, literally, he said on the stand that he had sacrificed his life for his family, when we all know that he has sacrificed Lynn Schockners life for his pocketbook. Reporter but that was his defense. It was his defense. Reporter the verdict, guilty of firstdegree murder. And now it was freds turn. And the man had aged at least ten years. 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Fred said they were wait for it pocket calls. And they proved nothing. The jury had to consider all possibilities, naturally, and there was no shortage of nerves among members of lynns family. Charlie, just 17 years old that day, watched the jury file back in. Its law order and everything right there. You sit there and everyone comes in and just you hold your breath. The world kind of stops. You dont know what the outcome is because they have all the power. Whatever they say is either the truth or what is going to be the truth. Reporter a lot of butterflies in your tummy. Oh, god, yeah. Reporter he looked at their faces for some sign. Waited nervously for justice for his mother. What was it like to hear the words . Emancipating. It was just unbelievable. Reporter the verdict guilty of firstdegree murder. I had a moment of just sitting there, and i just started crying. I hugged my family. Reporter you know, its interesting you say, hugged my family, because somebody who doesnt know the whole story might say, well, you just lost your family. But they dont know the whole story. Yeah. No. No, they were having my mothers side of the family, her two brothers and their family with me, it was amazing. It was what families should be. They were all there for me. Reporter the judge allowed charlie to address his father in court. I had this whole, like, speech prepared of, this is like vindication of everything. But, i was so angry, was just shaking and not really able to get my words out. But i managed to say, like im no longer your son. I cant believe you would do this. And just youre going to where you belong. Reporter that would be a pretty scary moment, i mean, a nervous making moment. Oh, it was terrifying. To know that it was actually going to happen, that this was the culmination of everything. It was a lot of emotion. Reporter also your way of saying goodbye to him. Yeah. Yeah. Reporter through all of this, Fred Schockner maintained his innocence. In fact, even before his trial began fred did carry out a threat he uttered right after the murder. He launched a lawsuit against the long beach Police Department for not protecting his wife, lynn. He went to the city and filed a claim, which is a precursor to a lawsuit against the city of long beach blaming the long beach Police Department for not preventing the murder of his wife because they had not, you know, followed through, followed proper procedure. Reporter wait a minute. Its their fault because they didnt prevent me from killing my wife . Thats right, exactly, yeah. Reporter the claim was rejected. But now, on the day of his sentencing, he tried the same argument again. Chutzpah. That was the yes, that was the judges response too. He called it sophistry. And he called him a disgusting human being. And he did not mince words. Reporter fred was sentenced to life without parole. They all were. In a few sentences, what you think the motive in this murder was . Money. Reporter wow, in one word, apparently. For whatever reason, 3 million or 4 million was not enough for manFred Schockner. He wanted 6 million or 8 million. Reporter even from prison Fred Schockner fought to keep it all for himself. Fought his own son, his own blood, tried to prevent charlie from getting a share of the schockner estate. And though charlie was eventually granted some of the money, fred kept millions for himself. Though how hed manage to spend it in prison was unclear. We wrote letters to all three of them, nick harvey, Frank Jaramillo and Fred Schockner, asking to hear from them what happened. Fred wrote back and said that he was convicted on highly skeptical circumstantial evidence and that there should have been more than enough to prove my innocence. Nick, now in his 30s, called us. He has matured in prison, he said. Was mad at the world back then. But has found god now. But listen to this, though he takes full responsibility for what he did, hes also been nursing a strange and very lonely Conspiracy Theory. Ive always believed the police were involved. Reporter you mean they intentionally sent her back there to be killed . Yes. Reporter you dont still believe that, though . Well, im not a big believer in coincidence, especially in situations like this. Reporter lots of time to think in prison about things like that. But also about charlie. Oh, young charlie. He what i did to charlie is haunts me every day. Reporter yeah. I took so much from him. Reporter but whether nick knew it or not, charlie was in the very capable hands of his uncle mark, whod received a commission from his worried sister lynn before he was murdered. If anything happens to me, take care of my son. Reporter and he did. How do you feel about that boy . Love him. Yeah. Yeah, this ones going to be tough. I always look back at that moment as the greatest gift i ever received from the man who i still hate more than any person ive ever known. And my wife and i didnt have children of our own. Now ive got the best son in the world. Oh, its been great. Mark and susan are just, theyre great. I love them so much. Reporter and so in a sad, strange way, out of unimaginable evil and loss came love. A real family. An unexpected blessing. Whats he done for you personally, having him in your life . Its like getting another life. Like somebody opened a door and. Said, heres a second chance. Reporter got a reason to get up in the morning these days. Damn straight. A reason to live. Reporter mark and susan are now his mom and dad. He has taken their last name. And charlie has more than survived. And has learned, in spite of everything, that rarest of lessons, to accept and move on. I mean, i know it happened, and i know its influencing me, but its not defining me. Reporter but there is one thing that defines him, his mothers character, and that follows him everywhere. My mother was just ethereal. She holds a very special place. Shes just everything that you think of as good, everything that you think of as kind, everything that is just great about people. Thats what she embodied, and im going to carry that with me. Thats all for n next on cspan, earlier today, president obama introduced ebola czar ron klain, who took questions on the latest developments in the ebola crisis. [ cheers and applause ] well, thank you all for coming. As you know, just two days ago, another american, this time a doctor in new york, was diagnosed with ebola