ten candidates that rank highest in the average of the five most resent polls released by tuesday will qualify for the debate. as of this morning, here is where the 11th hour scramble stands if werefor the 11th spot. we could see donald trump in the center and walker and bush to the right, rand paul mark rubio and huckabee and ted cruz. who is in nine or ten in stage right or left. in the three candidates the averages right now have kasich and christy on the wing and rick perry this morning not because as you know this is not the spinal tap bedebate. then it's donald trump that will be figure stage literally. >> all that they do is debate. >> as they down plays. >> i have not debated before. i am not a debate er. >> the republican are trying to see how to handle the el fapt in the room. this week trump was called a rattlesnake. imagine a nascar driver preparing for a race when one of the drivers is going to be drunk. >> for two hours i will be in the lions den. >> donald trump can speak just fine for donald trump. >> ignoring trump might be hard. it favors shoot from the left delivery. candidates will have 60 seconds to answer and 30 for rebuttal. rick perry tried. >> rick perry should have to have an iq test before getting on the stage. >> rick perry may not be on stage to take anyone on. >> if donald tries to interrupt me, that's not something that i take from a reporter and it won't be anything that i will take from anybody on stage. >> with nine sanctioned less than half of the numbers, candidates will be trying to stand out. >> i am joined on the phone with donald trump himself. good morning trump. >> good morning. >> you were at one percent in june and now july you're in first place with 19 percent. why do you think that you're resinating so quickly in the republican feeling? >> well a lot of people did not think that i was going to be running. i have a wonderful life and built a company, and a lot of good things going on. why would he give that up to go into this fray. once i announced as you probably know better than anybody, my numbers started to shoot up like a rocket ship and continue to go up. a couple of polls came out and i am number one with hispanics and north carolina was very strong. nevada was strong overall too. it was number one in both places places. >> now, you also have the highest unfavorable rating with those that we tested and majority say that is you're doing more to hurt the republican party and not help? >> well they don't understand my message or have not heard it. i notice in certain states like north carolina we have a strong rating and other places like new hampshire, iowa there's a strong rate. when i get to areas and where i go and speak, they really change the numbers quickly. >> lestt's talk about the debatd. one of the things that you did is down played the expectations. mr. trump, you never down play on anything. why did you do it on debating? >> well i am not a debate er. i have never been on a stage. i guess that my whole life is debating. i understand that you have nine other people shooting at me and that maybe true or maybe not. i really don't know. i don't have pollsters. i don't want to waste money on them. i don't want to be unreal. i want to be me. i want to be real. ef enough of that and the donors i see the donors and i know them. they don't give because there are nice people. really who knows -- i certainly think that i know most of the subject very well. i have been threw it. a lot of people have been asking me a lot of questions, so let's see what happens. i don't think that you can prepare for this. >> you have been compared to a rattlesnake, a drunk nascar driving by the kasich campaign. how would you you advise a candidate to debate you on stage? >> well i think that i'm a nice person and that's why my numbers go up as they get to know me better. frankly i would like to discuss the issues. i am not looking to take anybody out. when i take statements it was in resbons to response to the kritcriticism of me. i don't know what they're going to be doing. >> so if they don't attack you, you won't with attack them. >> i think that it's highly. i always count er punch, and you have too. i would rather discuss the issues. the country is in serious trouble. we have a lot of problems and i would rather discuss that. i read people and i listen to you and others and a lot of people say that they're getting ready and they have the lines giving to them by the pollsters. everything is put down and what to say and how to atake me. if that come it come and i will have to handle it at the time. >> now, i know that your going to sit down face to face but i want to ask you about a story in the washington post. it says republican trump platform because i said so. there's growing criticism saying when you are you going to see the details. i know that you you say that you have them. an education plan ready to roll out. when is the public going to see this? >> it's true. we have a lot of policy programs. they're going to be something that's going set the country back right. one of the by thing is that we have to take back jobs from china and japan and vietnam and mexico and everybody that's taking our jobs and ruining the manufacturing base and put people to work chuck. the real numbers probably 21 percent. the real unemployment number is 21 percent. people give up looking for jobs and no longer become a statistic, and it's unfair. we have to put the country back to work and get great jobs for people and good paying jobs and we're going to be just fine. >> two more questions. the news of challenging and who would you rather face? hilly or joe biden? >> well, i don't have a choice. what she is doing and how she is coming out, she has a terrible record and probably the worst secretary to have state in the history of the country and now the e-mail thing what they did with him is deindustrystroyed the life. i would think at some point you're going get a prosecutor that's going to be honorable and there's going to be major problems for her. i would think that other people would looking. >> you don't have much to say to biden at this point? >> i think that he is fine. if he runs he runs. you have to worry about -- i like to do things nice and systematically. right now i guess that i have 16 because somebody else just joined. i have 16 opponents and then i like to focus on them and then hillary. i they it will be easy if it's her, but i don't think that it's going to be her. >> i know that we're going get into issues in a couple of weeks but i want to ask you of black lives matter. an officer shooting an unarmed black man. do you see it as a crisis in america? >> it's a crisis. a double crisis. i look at people and see it on television and some horrible mistakes are made and at the same time we have to give you power back to the police. i am a big person that believes in big, we need police and we need protection. look, i look at some of the cities. you look at baltimore and so many other place in this country, chicago and certain areas of chicago. they need strong police protection protection. the police can do the job, but the job is being taken way from them. at the same time you have the other problems and there's no question about it. they're problems. there's term oil in the country. >> do you understand why african americans don't trust the police right now? >> well i can see it but at the same time we have to give power back to the police because we have to have law and order. hundreds of killings are in baltimore and chicago and new york is not doing so great in terms of that front and so many other cities. we have to give strength and power back to the police. you're always going to have bad apples, but you can not let that stop that police have to rekban some control of the crime wave and killing wave that's happening in the country. >> okay. all eyes on you in four days and prime time on thursday night. i look to have deep dive on the policies with you in the week. >> thank you. me too. joining me from the national committee is ryan. >> good morning chuck. >> let me ask you you talked about the other day on the today show that you wanted all of the candidates to pledge that they would not run as a third party. how do you go about getting that pledge and have you made phone calls asking for that pledge and mr. trump? >> i have not made phone calls, but what i was saying was simply if you're going to run for the nomination of the private organization and that's the republican party, it makes sense that a republican is better than a dem kate running on the other side and you would not run as a third party. a third party would be a death wish to both parties. . i don't think that it's reasonable to say that they have to soot portport if it's not them and run as a third party. we will see where this goes but i guess that you can say that it was the beginning of that conversation. >> let me ask you about this donald trump. we have a poll and we will sneak in and a majority of the country believes that he is hurting the republican party. do you think that he is hurting or helping the republican party? >> i guess that -- first of all i don't think that it hurts. i think that donald trump and the trum name isdonald trump name is a national brand name. it's fair to say that donald trump speaks for donald trump. i don't think that it has anything to do with the republican party. i think that all of them speak for themselves. when we get a nominee, i know that we're analyzing week by week but we're going to have a nominee by the end of march and april. you have it in april, may, june, july and i just think that those months are like years, and i just don't see it. i think that both sides are going to have nominees that are going to speak for the party. right now none of them peak sprspeak for the party. >> i am keeping this tape because you're predicting a quick nomination and ending in march. >> i think that it will. let me ask you about the debate process. we now have the scramble of looking at the top ten polls. is this what you had in mind of taking control of the debate process? it seems that national polling is having an undue influence on who should be on the stage for the first date. >> yeah they have been determined by the debate. when you get into the iowa debate south carolina debate then the state polls are going to have a play into who is on the debate stage. you may recall and i think that everybody has amnesia. jump did not make a debate gary johnson did not make a debate. we're proud of where we come. we're going to do things that no one thought that we would do. it's another topic with the listen ers to go approximate into. the truth is that we want to do a few things. we want to limit the base. we did that. we want to have some say who the moderators are. we did that. so this idea of what companies decide to do with the corporate air time with what they have is a matter of law and that's their decision. one more thing and i then i will move on. all 17 candidates are going to be participating in debate night. everybody is going to have an opportunity. that's great for the party. >> okay. we are watching and we will hear a lot from you as this imagined. thanks for coming on meet"meet the press" press". >> thank you. >> let me bring in my partner in crime and catlin park er for the washington post and chris matthews. let me start with trump here chris matthews this was mild mannered donald trump. this was a clark clint. you have called him a super hero. >> a comic book hero. i think that he is going to go in there with a proposed on taxes that help the working guy and then wait for people to attack them. then he will counter attack that way. >> it's like he is setting people up to look unreasonable and crazy and then he is like i am sitting here. >> yeah, he has created this impression and more will tune into this one than the past because they want to see him do his thing. he is not going do it and calming down along the way. he is going to try to be the grown up i think and let everybody else become off balance because he is not doing what they expected and then the america public will say okay. >> the other front runner is jeb bush and here is what jeb bush told my colleague about preparing for a donald trump debatd. >> i was surprised that donald trump has surged. i think that he has captured the the deep frustration that people feel. i get that. i get the lack of rule of law and sanctioned cities and open border that he has in a graphic way appealed to people's anger about those things. i think that it's important to be respectful of that and then over time it will succeed or fail over the proposals. >> i began saying that donald trump toned it down and now jeb bush is trying. >> it's weird, isn't it. i can see donald trump toning it down but they have reeved themselves up to go after donald trump. i think that jeb bush bush isis the one to game but he has to look at the the way that he plays it. >> there's an important article this moment that people e are reading and it's from the washington examiners and it has people upset that jeb bush did not respond to hillary clinton. she laid into him and he went up there and did not respond. according to one, and to some conservatives who questioned jeb bush's resolve to fight bush's silence had an ofminous silence to it. is jeb tough enough is something that he may have to answer. >> yeah, people in the end are going to look for someone optimistic and not angry. he has a challenge on thursday can you take on donald trump without taking down the voters? the interesting thing is that if you look through the groups there's support. it's men, woman and moderate. it's not just angry white males and so you have to be careful not to also anger the people that like donald trump. >> i think that it's deeper than the anger. it's the best and the brightest of giving it away on the debt and jobs and trade bid the elite. donald trump is fighting the elite here and the little guy is attacking him. >> yeah and the more that we attack him, the mrore powerful. >> everybody is going to pile on trump and not him. >> we should see. i am not so convinced of that. >> we have a lot more to come in including the big political story of the week. how serious is when you're not confident you have complete visibility into your business, it can quickly become the only thing you think about. that's where at&t can help. at&t's innovative solutions connect machines and people... to keep your internet of things in-sync, in real-time. leaving you free to focus on what matters most. welcome back. now to the other big political story of the morning word that vice president joe biden is taking a new and more serious look at entering the democratic race for 2016. what's behind this apparent new-found interest? is it hillary clinton's falling numbers and his improving ones? according to a quinnipiac poll out this week, hillary's personal ratings are upside down and an all-time high unfavorable rating in this poll. 40% favorable, 51% unfavorable. by coincidence, look at joe biden. he got his best numbers yet in this poll historically. 49% favorable and 39% unfavorable. throwing questions about hillary clinton's e-mails, the transparency and trust-worthy issues. you have a clinton campaign that could be facing a potential crisis right now. could be the summer of doldrums or something more serious. to discuss clinton's travails, i'm joined by debbie wasserman schultz. chairwoman schultz, good morning to you. >> thank you. great to be with you. >> let me ask you is this room for more candidates in the democratic race, including the sitting vice president? >> chuck, let me just say, there would always be room for the sitting vice president if he chose to run for president, but let's remember and take one step back that vice president biden has just been through the most heart-wrenching tragedy that a parent could ever experience in the loss of his son beau, who was a friend of mine and it was deeply tragic to watch that family go through what they have. but as chair of the dnc, i can tell you that throughout the beginning of the 2016 presidential cycle as the dnc, we have kept candidates and potential candidates fully informed about what we're doing at the dnc, how we're preparing, what they need to know potentially. so we've been in communication with potential and actual candidates throughout this process. >> you're being vague about the potential. you mean vice president biden? >> well, at every point in this process, each of the candidates before they announced was a potential candidate. joe biden has never been ruled out. like any other candidates when they were thinking or in any stage of the process, we've kept his team informed as well as every other candidate, both before and since they have decided to join the race. >> what do you make of the rise of bernie sanders? >> you know, i think bernie sanders hillary clinton lincoln chafee, martin o'malley, any of our candidates when compared to the republican field have an appeal because they speak to american public. whoever our nominee will ultimately be president because our candidates and party help people reach the middle class make sure if you work hard and play by the rules, you should have an opportunity to succeed and that you can. and the republican field, look you know, you've got their front-runner, who has deemed mexicans rapists, a presidential can can dated in mike huckabee this week actually not rule out that he'd use federal troops to stop abortion. jeb bush who said he'd phase out medicare. the contrast, whether it's bernie sanders, jeb bush donald trump, mike huckabee hillary clinton any of that contrast between our candidates and theirs is very clear and the american people eventually choose our nominee as president. >> now, you were on with one of our panelists this week chris matthews, and he asked you a question about bernie sanders. let me play the clip and get to you respond on the other side. >> what is it between a democratic and a socialist? i used to think there was a big difference. what do you think it is? >> the difference between -- >> democrat like hillary clinton socialist like bernie sanders? >> the difference between being a democratic and a republican -- >> well, what's the big difference between a democrat and soeshlgist. >> the relevant debate we'll have over the course of this campaign is what's the difference between a -- >> i think there's a big difference. >> given that bernie sanders is an unabashed socialist believes in socialist countries like in europe, what's the difference? can you explain the difference? >> you know chuck, it's always fun to be interviewed by chris matthews. and i know that he enjoys that banter. the important distinction i think we're going to be discussing, i'm confident we'll be discussing in this campaign, is the difference between democratic and republicans. the difference between democrats and republicans is that democrats want to make sure that people have an opportunity to reach the -- climb the ladders of success and reach the middle class have a good education, have a secure retirement. look at the republican field, what they stand for is the extremism that you've seen in -- on full display over the next -- the last few weeks, which is why donald trump is their front-runner. donald trump is essentially a reflection of where the republican party is today. limiting a woman's right to make her own health care decisions, supporting -- shifting to a more privately focused education system, ending medicare as we know it. that's the important and relevant contrast as we go through the next 18 months of this presidential election. >> very quickly, we're only talking about republicans debating for the next two months. why aren't we seeing democrats debate over the next few months? >> oh, we're going to be having a robust series of debates. we're finalizing the last few debates. we'll be announcing our -- i'll be announcing our series of debates very soon. >> we're not going to see him in august or september? >> we will be announcing our schedule as soon as we get it finalized. we've committed to six debates. each will have at least one debate in each of the four early primary states. >> chairwoman debbie wasserman schultz, thanks for coming on this morning. >> thanks for having me, chuck. the panel is back. chris, she doesn't want to answer that question. why do you think that? >> i think there's a big difference between -- socialists traditionally believe in maintaining the economy. but clearly they believe in the market. >> why do you think she didn't say that? >> politically, she doesn't want to offend the bernie people. >> i think that's the issue? i think so. i will give her a benefit in the doubt it's a political problem she thinks because i think hillary clinton hasn't staked on it the difference. she better. you have to run as a democrat, which is always harder to explain being a progressive and liberal, harder than being a right winger or left winger. clearly democrats have had a record in this country of being for social security, medicare, civil rights, interventions in the market but not getting rid of the market. clearly they accept the power and the efficiency of a capitalist system. socialists do not. in is a fundamental difference. >> let's get quickly to the joe biden news. helene, in "the new york times" this morning we have maureen dowd's column where she talks about sort of a deathbed plea from beau biden to joe biden. he wants him to run. the family has been behind him running this whole time. it's always a family affair. but there is a hesitancy. >> there is clearly a hesitancy. we have to remember biden is still -- the death of his son is pretty fresh and very, very raw. maureen is a fantastic reporter. before she was a columnist she was a fantastic political reporter. she has great sources. so i completely have faith in that beau biden anecdote. "the times" headline on the lead story today taking steps, and i don't think that's necessarily overwritten, but it's a long distance between, you know, taking steps and talking to people and actually announcing a candidacy. i'm curious to see, you know which way we're going to end up going. >> gerry, a couple things i found out in my reporting. there's going to be a big family vacation bidens will have, in the next couple of weeks where the real decision is made. his sister ran his campaign. these are family decisions. but it is -- the other aspect of this is, how serious -- i mean, are donors asking for this? do we think other democrats are getting nervous about hillary? >> that's one of the questions. there are many questions. i don't think this situation has changed a lot in the last few weeks. wrote about this a few weeks ago, the family always thought this was a good idea. hunter, not just beau biden apparently has said, you should do this, but others in biden world don't think it's a good idea. they don't think he should go out on a down note. the donor question is a big one a lot of money has been given to hillary. >> what's interesting here is that some of this is driven by -- that the clinton people are trying to smoke him out. they have actually leaked these anecdotes because he's sitting out there, hovering over the campaign and it make them nervous. >> i'm not captain of that conspiracy. i think about what the bidens have been through if maureen's sources are correct, then that son's request is very powerful i would think. >> i think it is too. >> i don't know -- i read bill schneider's column in which he points out vice presidents get nominated because people like them and they appreciate their loyalty, but they don't, in fact get elected president. the exception to that was george h.w. bush because people wanted a third term of ronald reagan. this is schneider's writing and i think he's on target. it's about 43% approval railt rating for vice president biden has a lot to do with sympathy right now. whether that carries over into the long run, i don't know. >> another guy about biden, he's in the back room with the president every day. and proposals like breaking up iraq is a recent historic development. i think if he runs there's no more grandpa finnegan, no more gaffes, no more kidding down. head down, knees up and run to win and run to beat hillary. if he wants to run that kind of campaign, it could be damaging. >> people close to him said this is the first time he's ever felt prepared to be president. that's important. he never thought that before until he was a sitting vice president. anyway coming up the man who's doing a lot better in the polls than you might think, neurosurgeon ben carson. first, why so many people are saying it's past time to put body cameraings on all police officers. >> announcer: "meet the press" is brought to you by morgan stanley, where capital creates chang moms know their family's mouths often need a helping hand. after brushing listerine® total care helps prevent cavities strengthens teeth and restores tooth enamel. it's an easy way to give listerine® total care to the total family. listerine® total care. one bottle, six benefits. power to your mouth™. and for kids starting at age six, listerine® smart rinse delivers extra cavity protection after brushing. i hate cleaning the gutters. have you touched the stuff? it's evil. and ladders. sfx: [screams] they have all those warnings on 'em. might as well say... 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"the new york times" reports fewer than 400 families have donated half of all the money raised so far in the 2016 election. these are shocking numbers early on in this campaign season. no doubt, they'll be more shocking as time wears on. coming up, what the death of another unarmed black man, this one in cincinnati, tells uls about how we decide who can and can't become a police officer. does the behold, these are two wind turbines. can you spot the difference? the wind farm on the right was created using digital models and real world location-based specs that taught it how to follow the wind. so while the ones on the left are waiting the ones on the right are pulling power out of thin air. pretty impressive, huh? now, two things that are exactly the same have have never been more different. ge software. get connected. get insights. get optimized. seven out of ten power outages in the us are caused by weather. but utilities can now predict where the power will go out, within a few city blocks. working with ibm they're combining micro weather forecasts with detailed data from local sensors. to predict where outages are likely to occur. and send crews exactly where they're needed, when they're needed. ibm analytics from the internet of things is making energy smarter every day. sadly, it's becoming almost a weekly occurrence another disturbing video showing a white police officer killing an unarmed black man. it was a body camera video that led to the indictment of university of cincinnati police officer ray tensing for the death of samuel dubose this week. tensing claimed he was dragged by dubose's car but the video seemed to tell another story. it's why the call for more police officers to be equipped with body cameras is getting louder but the problem with videos from charleston to cincinnati are not going to be solved just by cameras. is there a problem with the way we recruit and train police officers in this country? joining me is commissioner charles ramsey of the philadelphia police department co-chair of president obama's task force on police commissioning. welcome back to "meet the press." >> good morning. >> it seems as if there's consensus. we have to have body cameras on all police officers period. is that your view, commissioner? >> yeah i'm a proponent of body cameras. i think it's very important that we equip our officers with modern technology, body cameras certainly fits into that category. one thing i would like to add to that is that the expense associated with body cameras really needs to be taken into account as our lawmakers pass legislation requiring, it as departments move in that direction. it is a pretty expensive proposition but i think it's worth it. >> there's certainly growing consensus around that. i want to get to the recruitment issue, but with all due respect, commissioner i feel big departments do a pretty good job finding good cops. a lot is suburban police departments, in this case a university police department, do they have lower standards? if they do, how do we raise them up? >> well, it would depend on the university. many universities have standards pretty similar to the larger agencies. i know in philadelphia we train several of the university police that are located in philadelphia. but recrueltiment is an issue across the country. trying to get diversity, trying to get people in our ranks that really have the proper skill to be able to deal effectively with the community in today's environment. and that is an issue. >> well, let me ask you a blunt question. i know diversifying police departments are very important. a young african-american man or woman seeing everything they've seen about police departments over the last year, why would they want to become one? >> that's a good question and it makes it very tough. i joined the chicago police department in the late 1960s a very similar environment. you had vietnam, the civil rights movement, images of what was taking place in the south, mris and protesters. and it was something that i had to consider when i decided to come into law enforcement. and lost a few friends along the way as a result of that decision. we can overcome it but we do have to change the image. right now the image of police in america is not that positive. >> is there a way to change the image beyond just time? do you -- is there something you can do sooner than that to at least spark a change in the image? >> well one, we have to make sure that we really do hold officers accountable. the majority of our police officers and there's almost 500,000 in this country that have thousands and thousands of interactions on a daily basis, you don't hear about it because they're not bad interaction. we need to do a better job of the positive things that are going on, but those officers that do act outside of policy, outside the wall, there has to be consequences, very swift and certain consequences and rid our ranks of those people then begin to really focus. in fact, we need to focus even during that time on getting people in our ranks. you know people stay in this business 20 30 years, so who we hire today is going to be with us for decades to come. >> is this a culture issue cops protecting cops? i mean, you just see we had two police officers that were sort of taking the university of cincinnati police officer's side of the story sort of the initial was protect him first rather than protect the troop. >> well, that's part of it. name a profession where you don't have that sort of thing? how often do doctors turn in other doctors for malpractice? lawyers turn in other lawyers. journalists that turn in other journalists that, perhaps, aren't doing the proper research on a story. >> touche. >> we need to be able to deal with that sort of thing, but that's a culture that exists in a profession. but we can't afford to have that in policing. the role we play in a democratic society is just too important. >> commissioner ramsey i have to leave it there, but this is a conversation i know you're focused on and we all are intl. thank you for coming on this morning. >> thank you. up next, the other nonpolitician, who is shaking up the republican race. neurosurgeon ben carson. and then we close with donald trump. as someone said earlier this week, it's like preparing for a nascar r can a business have a mind? a subconscious. a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought. can a business have a spirit? can a business have a soul? can a business be...alive? 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'you're gonna die, jeff.' you hired someone to clean the gutters. not just someone. angie's list helped me find a highly rated service provider to do the work at a fair price. ♪ everyone can shop, but members get more with reviews, live customer support, and better pricing. visit angieslist.com today. if your purse is starting to look more like a tissue box... you may be muddling through allergies. try zyrtec® for powerful allergy relief. and zyrtec® is different than claritin®. because it starts working faster on the first day you take it. zyrtec®. muddle no more™ . and welcome back. we talked a lot about thursday's opening republican presidential debate and the role donald trump might be playing, but there's another nonpolitician who will also object that stage in ohio, it's ben carson. he's of course, the former neurosurgeon who is unique in the field for many reason. not the least for being a least of which for being only candidate to be played by cuba gooding jr. in a tv movie. dr. carson welcome back to "meet the press." >> thank you. always good to be with you. >> let me start with the debate. what do you hope to accomplish? nine other people will be on stage with you. we know you're going to qualify. what do you want to get out of it? >> well i hope that people will get an opportunity to see who i really am, not who other people have said that i am. and will have an opportunity to actually see what i think about a variety of subjects. you know, i have a tendency to be asked about medical things. and very seldom do i get asked about, you know, other types of political things that are important. >> you know, it's interesting watching the rise of donald trump, and i know you were asked about this earlier, because you and him do share, along with one other candidate, you're the nonpoliticians in the field. in fact and you mr. trump are the other wunls who have not run for another office. do you think his rise has helped the idea of outsiders or does it hurt you right now as a candidate? >> i think it's a tremendous help. it's a tremendous aid because fewer people are talking about my lack of political experience now. and that's good. because, you know, experience can come from a variety of different places. and certainly the life that you have led, you know, in my case, solving complex problems, being involved in corporate america, starting a national nonprofit you get an enormous amount of experience doing these things, particularly in solving problems. and, you know, it's an erroneous thought that only political experience is expedient. >> let's go to some issues. you spoke to the national urban league earlier this week, and you also in an earlier interview this week asked about the black lives matter movement. and you called it silly. why did you call it silly? >> well, you know i don't -- i don't recall calling it silly, but what i called silly is political krebtness going amuck. that's what's silly. when you know -- i guess it was martin o'malley who said, you know black lives matter, white lives matter he got in trouble for that and had to apologize. that's what -- that's what i'm talking about is silly. of course all lives matter. and, of course, we should be very concerned about what's going on, particularly in our inner cities. it's a crime. you know, for a young black man the most likely cause of death is homicide. that is a huge problem we need to address in a very serious way. >> that is what the black lives matter movement is doing and why they criticize politicians for saying all lives matter because their point is, until -- that there is an equality here. that particularly you brought up african-american men and that overall stat but think about the issue of police custody, that an african-american is more likely to die in police custody than any other race or ethnicity. >> yeah, but, again, i think we need to look at the whole picture. one of the things that i always like to point out to people is, how about we just remove the police for 24 hours? can you imagine the chaos that would ensue? and the vast majority of police are very good people. are there bad apples? of course. but if you hire a plumber and he does a bad job do you say all plumbers are bad, let's go out and kill them? i don't think we do that. we need to be a little more mature, but certainly in cases where police are doing things that are inappropriate i think we ought to investigate those promptly and justice should be swift. >> let me go to some other issues. immigration immigration, you're one of the few candidates that is comfortable saying that of the 11 million that are here that are undocumented, that they should be given some sort of guest worker -- guest worker permit in order to make them legal, pay some fines, things like that. a lot of conservatives would call that amnesty. why is that not amnesty, in your view? >> well, you know, i have heard people say yeah, round them all up and send them back. they have no idea what they're talking about and how much that costs and how impractical that is. many of these people don't know any other place. this is the only place they've been. so where are you going to send them back to in that situation? what i would do instead is let them register and become guest workers. necessity have to pay back tax penalty and pay taxes going forward. it does not give them voting rights. it does not make them a citizen. and if this-f they want citizenship, they go to the back of the line and go throughout same process as everybody else because we cannot neglect the people that have done it the right way. >> again people will call that amnesty. >> they can call it whatever they want to, but we also have to be pragmatic. >> i'm going to close here with a question from a facebook poster. this one came from victor roush. simple question. does the bible have authority over the constitution? >> he said that's a simple question? >> i know. >> that is not a simple question. >> a simply worded question, how's that? >> i think probably what you have to do is ask a very specific question about a specific passage of the bible and a specific portion of the constitution. i don't think you can answer that question other than out of very specific context. >> all right. i will leave that answer there. we'll see if mr. roush likes that answer or not. dr. carson, thanks for coming on the show. good luck on the debate and stay safe on the trail. >> thank you very much. a quick reminder if you can't see "meet the press" when we air on sunday morning, no problem. you can catch us on demand or just set your dvr season pass of course, that way even if it's not sunday, it's "meet the press." coming up next our "end game" segment where we'll try to - good journalism is about telling a story from more than one perspective. embracing diversity can enrich your story by allowing you to see things from more than just one point of view. that's a story worth telling. the more you know. yes, it's that time, "end game" time the panel is here. i was thinking about donald trump, guys, what it's like -- have we ever seen the opportunity for someone to debate someone like, this a wild card. let me play a few clips and see if this jars your memory. here it is. >> i just realized i have a perfect part for you in terminator four. >> investment in education and in health care. >> there must be a ton of pork in the government because when you say the word investment to me somebody's reaching into my wallet to private sector. >> who am i? why am i here? >> those are three of the more interesting wild card moments. by the way, in all three of those case, two of them, ventura and arnold won kathleen, and it was because of their debate. stockdale for other obvious reasons. >> being memorable helps a lot. i'm sure he'll be memorable one way or the other. i hope other people are working on their clever responses. you know, as to how different people react to him, it depends on whether you have the ball or whether you're trying to get the ball. i would say to the folks on the far end of the debate stage will probably be interacting with him in a more colorful way. if i were jeb bush, i would continue to be the adult and be ronald reagan and with that there you go again approach to -- >> chris f you were debating -- >> your real debate will be megan kelley against donald trump because she wants to score points professionally and she has a way to have the camera look at you whether you're right or not. trump used to have that part. she'll be like this, do i believe this guy or not? trump better be careful. he better left let her have a couple points. if he takes her on, that will be television. >> helene, how would you do it? >> it depends on which trump you get. do you get -- >> the one i had? >> yeah, you get the guy you have, that's a totally different person. you know i think if i were jeb bush, i would just go for gravitas either way and if it's the guy you have, then it's a far more boring debate, isn't it? >> i don't think that will have far fewer people chiming in. gerry? >> i take him to the commander in chief question. in the cold war there was this question, do you trust this person to have their finger on the button? what are you going to do about isis exactly and isn't that a formula for 75,000 american troops on the ground? take him to the substance of foreign policy. test him out as candidate in chief. >> we talk about jeb, walker, i had ben carson on. what happened to marco rubio and rand paul here? kathleen? >> they have been sort of moved to the margins a little bit, haven't they? >> is it all trump? >> probably, yeah. i mean i just think all the focus -- the media focus has been on him so much. while people criticize us for doing, it you have to cover the guy leading the group. >> i think there's going to be a post-trump success if he burns out if he burns out. don't pet on that for sure but if he does, someone will benefit from that sense of betrayal, that sense of anger. i think it's kasich or walker. somebody to the more interesting regular side than the candidate jeb bush. i don't think they're going establishment -- >> he's going wiigs on us -- >> you know what i mean. >> i do know what you're talking about. it's the wiigs versus the republicans thursday night. that's all for today. we'll be back next week because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." it's monday, august 3rd. coming up on "early today," more than 12,000 people have been ordered to evacuate after 21 make california wild fires destroy dozens of buildings and homes. president obama will reveal major plans that he hopes will wake up the world, shake up the country and rock the republican presidential field. a second american doctor has now been accused of illegally killing another lion during a big game hunt. plus severe weather in the midwest kills one and injures more than a dozen. what is facebook doing with the enormous drones? that and much, much more as we kick off a busy week ahead. "early today" starts right now. i'm melissa

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