Jacob, thank you very much and good evening to you. Its 8 00 and the headlines from the newsroom this hour. Another of rishi sunak mps has defected to laboun rishi sunak mps has defected to labour, the second in under two weeks. Natalie elphicke announced her Decision Just two minutes before prime ministers questions. The dover mp said rishi sunaks government is chaotic and claims that labour has changed well. Some of her has changed well. Some of her now former conservative colleagues have been reposting old social media messages from natalie when she criticised laboun natalie when she criticised labour. Dan poulter made the same switch to the conservative to labour rather less than a fortnight ago, when the conservative lost hundreds of councillors and the blackpool south by election last week. Speaking shortly after defecting , miss elphicke said that a Labour Government promises a brighter future. In 2019, the conservatives stood on a manifesto that was very much Centre Ground. But under rishi sunak theyve abandoned the Centre Ground and broken many election promises. Meanwhile, under keir starmer, labour have changed and i think that change is going to bring a much Better Future for our country. And thats why im so keen to join the labour party and play my part in bringing that important future forward in scotland. Meanwhile, kate forbes says her appointment as deputy first minister there is a moment of extraordinary privilege shed been promised a significant role by john swinney after deciding not to stand in the leadership election herself. Miss forbes, who only narrowly lost out to humza yousaf for the post of leader last year, takes over from Shona Robinson and she remains in cabinet in another position. Russia is promising an position. Russia is promising an appropriate response after the uk expelled one of its defence attaches. The home office claims attaches. The home office claims he is a spy. Several russian diplomatic premises are also being shut to while therell be new restrictions on diplomatic visas. The home secretary says that britain is trying to dismantle the kremlins intelligence gathering operations, a move thats also supported by labour. Weve heard today that a father whose teenage daughter, who took her own life after watching harmful content on social media, says that a draft plan to protect Children Online doesnt go far enough. The Children Online doesnt go far enough. The media regulator ofcom says platforms must take action to stop their algorithms recommending harmful content to children or face significant fines. But ian russell, part of bereaved families for online safety, wants to see the safety code strengthened to make sure that the worlds biggest platforms, he says, better protect Children Online. And finally, some royal news. Prince harry heard cheers as he arrived today at saint pauls cathedral in for london a special event marking ten years of the Invictus Games. During the service, the duke of sussex gave a short reading in front of representatives from various participating nations and some injured servicemen and women. Injured servicemen and women. There are varieties of gifts , there are varieties of gifts, but the same spirit , there are varieties of gifts, but the same spirit, and there are varieties of gifts, but the same spirit , and there but the same spirit, and there are varieties of services but the same lord, and there are varieties of activities , but it varieties of activities, but it is the same god who activates all of them in everyone. All of them in everyone. Meanwhile, less than two miles away, the king was holding his First Garden Party of the season at buckingham palace. Though weve been told by a spokesperson yesterday for harry that the monarchs full Program Means that the pair wont be seeing each other during his short visit to the uk. Those are short visit to the uk. Those are the latest headlines from the newsroom. Another update at 9 00. In the meantime, to stay across all of the latest news, you can scan the qr code on your screen or go to gb news. Common alerts. Alerts. Welcome back to state of the nation. The purpose of a business is to make money for its shareholders. This has been true since the dawn of time, or at least since the dawn of business. Up until recently, businesses were expected to obey the laws passed by parliament, and any regulations that flowed from such law. However, in the from such law. However, in the last few years, something has dramatically changed with the rise of the sinister phenomenon of environmental , social and of environmental, social and governance. Esg as an overlay above and beyond the law of the land. So banks and other businesses have taken it upon themselves to enter the field of politics with their Business Decisions being determined by some higher overarching power. And theres no better example of this than the case of the de banking of our own nigel farage. Nigels case revealed a lot more than the political biases and malpractices of natwest executives. It revealed de banking to be a nationwide phenomenon following nigels de banking scandal, the Financial Conduct Authority proved itself to be about as good as its job, as Dame Alison Rose was after issuing a report claiming no one had lost their account because of their political views. Seemingly ignonng political views. Seemingly ignoring nigels subject access requests, which proved precisely the opposite. The good news is the opposite. The good news is the opposite. The good news is the Treasury Select Committee has been following this issue more conscientiously, and the revelations have been extremely worrying. In february, it revealed that uk banks forced the closure of 140,000 140,000 Small Business accounts last yean Small Business accounts last year, nearly 3 of all Small Businesses in the United Kingdom. Small businesses are the backbone of our economy. Not only do they employ 16. 7 million people, generating £2. 4 trillion a year for the economy, they also play a vital role in our communities , providing communities, providing opportunities for economic mobility. But it doesnt end there. Todays revelations from there. Todays revelations from the committee have shown that santander and lloyds have shut the accounts of 300 Defence Companies. Now theyre not the bogeyman, particularly in this, because other banks simply didnt provide these data. And didnt provide these data. And it suggests that the figure therefore could be even higher. I couldnt have said it better than the Treasury Committee chairman and conservative mp Dame Harriett baldwin, who said we cannot have organisations in this country systematically de banking legitimate firms or industries because their board turns its nose up at their line of work. If their work is legal, then they should be able to access a bank account. So not only has de banking posed a serious risk to free expression, but now it is posing a risk to our national security. It doesnt end with mere threats to free speech and national security. Energy security remains under threat, with regulators discouraging investment in fossil fuel companies. Its only recently the Climate Change was one of the Climate Change was one of the four critical policy aims that the government vacuously instructed the bank of england to prioritise the esg driven de banking agenda is woven into our government institutions. Not our government institutions. Not only does the supposedly independent bank of england issue highly contentious, politically driven commercial advice to banks without a democratic mandate for doing so, but the Financial Conduct Authority miserably failed to investigate. The de banking investigate. The de banking scandal is compromised. Two in september last year, it again without a democratic mandate, along with the Prudential Regulatory Authority , issued regulatory authority, issued proposals that would force firms to, quote, develop a diversity and inclusion strategy, setting out how the firm will meet their objectives and goals and set targets to address underrepresentation. The issue goes right to the heart of democracy. Fundamentally, it is democracy. Fundamentally, it is a political ideology capturing our non Democratic Institutions both in the public and private sector , without a mandate from sector, without a mandate from the british people. This ideology is now threatening our ability to conduct business. Our Nations Energy security and our national security. It also affects freedom of speech and should be stopped as ever. Let me know your thoughts mailmogg gbnews. Com. But joining me now is the emeritus Research Professor at lse and former mod adviser, gwydion. Prince gwydion, what a pleasure to see you. How has esg got into the bloodstream of British Business . I think its completely appalling. The report that , appalling. The report that, Harriet Baldwin and her committee have produced, which you just summarised , it its you just summarised, it its come in because this is the leisure of the theory class to invert thorstein veblens title of his famous study of what the leisure class do, the theory of the leisure class and what esg does is, is to, as you said, to produce a series of criteria which have no status whatsoever. The fundamental line, surely, is the one which dame harriet produced and that you quoted, which is if its legal, then it should be banked. But my worry should be banked. But my worry is, as somebody who is deeply involved in and interested in defence, is that this is not just consequential. I think its really very sinister because such move. As where will they such move. As where will they command the greatest pleasure . Who will smile most clearly . It will be xi jinping. Who will smile most clearly . It will be xi jinping. Clearly it will be xi jinping. Clearly it will be xi jinping. Clearly it will be xi jinping. Clearly it will be mr putin. If we are in a position where we are going to self harm ourselves. At the last time i checked , the defence of time i checked, the defence of the realm was the first duty of government. Its not an optional extra. Extra. Absolutely. And these obugafions absolutely. And these obligations wont be placed on chinese and russian companies. But is it even legal for British Companies . Dont they have a fiduciary duty to their shareholders, primarily to make money rather than to follow a woke agenda . Woke agenda . Of course they do, and if a bankis of course they do, and if a bank is going to prioritise these esg criteria over those duties, which is how you began your your monologue , then your your monologue, then frankly, investors should draw their own conclusions. But let their own conclusions. But let me give you the, the analogy which, which this all brings to my mind. And its, its a properly military one. If the United Kingdom was a ship of war, if this was hms great britain, and if it was in nelsons navy , we are at a state nelsons navy, we are at a state in in International Affairs where we are going to action stations, we know this because the secretary of state for defence reminded us in his lancaster house speech. And just yesterday, i think it was in washington, the chief of defence staff, admiral tony radakin, said very much the same thing. Now, what does that mean . It now, what does that mean . It means that a marine drummer beats court beats to quarters and in going to action, what do you do . You clear the decks, you get all the detritus out of the way so that the ship can be properly fought. And my view is that the moment has now come when all these luxury beliefs like these esg things, they are virtue signals. They are a sort of form of intellectual conspicuous consumption. They go conspicuous consumption. They go over the side. They clearly have to go over the side because they impede gwithian. That seems to be fundamental. What youre saying that these are luxury opinions in times of plenty and peace, but that when war is on the horizon, you have to become serious again. And these esg policies are a lack of seriousness. Seriousness. Well, absolutely. And it goes further because of course, there is a direct connection between varne, what we might call hard defence, that is to say, ships and planes and tanks and the other issue which you mentioned, which is Energy Security , its which is Energy Security, its something which i also work on as i think you know , and indeed as i think you know, and indeed the way in which we are allowing the way in which we are allowing the Energy Security of our country to be weakened and undermined by, frankly, entirely unscientific projects such as net zero. These this is the luxury belief to end all luxury beliefs. And we are beating to quarters and over the side. It must go. Must go. Excellent. Well, thank you very much with you. And im now joined by Public Policy researcher and former coutts employee oliver lewis. Oliver, thank you for coming back in to discuss this. What do we do as a country if esg stops us doing all the things were actually good at . I mean, both you and the americans have had to make a number of very good points. I mean, margaret thatcher, i think, hit the nail on the head. You know, this country has to produce something. We have to produce something. We have to produce wealth. And our Defence Sector is one of the one of the sole sectors that is still one of our, you know, National Champions for want of a better phrase. So if we continue to undermine our micro enterprises, dare i say, the campaigns to the church of england and so on to disinvest from bae systems, you know, a Major International defence company, you know, where are we going to generate our wealth from . And it has a real consequence, doesnt it . Because if investors are less likely to invest in bae, then for bae to do business becomes more expensive because the people who will invest in it expect a higher return. So there is a real cost that you can identify by limiting the pool of investors. Absolutely. And you know, these huge multinational firms which, you know, generate most of the, ft se 100 income margins and the income that goes into our Pension Funds and pays for our Pension Funds and pays for our energy bills that the Professor Emeritus was referencing, if we dont have if were not home to these multinational firms, those profits will go elsewhere. The investment will go elsewhere. Bae systems, perhaps at one stage, i think there is still a golden share in bae systems. So golden share in bae systems. So perhaps they cant just, up stocks and leave. But we need to be championing the success of these firms and not doing them down. And this politicisation of, you know, who judges the fairness and the justice when its beyond the rule of law is politicisation , but not by politicisation, but not by politicians. And the bank of england has rules trying to make it harder to lend money to energy companies. But surely thats not the business of the bank of england . No, absolutely. And i think there is a disturbing Mission Creep. And a lot of our national institutions, which, you know, its how we get our institutions back so that were sort of at the standards of really the 1990s where the rule of law was clear. Everybody knew where the boundanes clear. Everybody knew where the boundaries were. The bank of england became independent in that decade , but there was quite that decade, but there was quite a sort of almost a club capitalism idea of the culture of business in this country coming off obviously, a wave of entrepreneurial thatcherism, which of course, has transformed this nation standard of living, and getting back to that culture is a political project , and getting back to that culture is a political project, and thats really where were going to have to end up going, i think, and the failure of regulators in and i think particularly the fca in protecting investors is notable. And instead of concentrating in protecting investors from malpractice and fraud , its malpractice and fraud, its decided to go on for diversity and inclusion. Is that because its probably easier to do. Its easier to do and obviously heaping layer upon layer of regulation and requirements and codes, which, as you say, you know, beyond the rule of law, if you like, just makes doing business much more expensive. Its quite interesting. You look at the headcount. I remember when i was in the Banking Sector that the headcount of the compliance teams, i mean, you know, when i joined in 2010, you know, i think the headcount in one of the large multinational banks i worked for was perhaps 100, in london. By the time i left , it london. By the time i left, it was about 2000. You know, this burgeoning team , which is a cost burgeoning team, which is a cost on business because that has to be salaries , really nice, high be salaries, really nice, high salaries. It has to be paid for by your customers. It does. Is there a kernel of good thinking in esg that you Want Companies that dont despoil the environment,