Transcripts For GBN Dewbs 20240703

And more over the next hour. But before we get stuck in, lets cross live to radisson for tonights latest news headlines. Thanks, michel. Its 6 01. A teenage girl has been arrested on suspicion of attempted murder after two teachers and a teenage student were stabbed at a school in wales. The suspect, were told, remains in custody. Amman Valley School was put into lockdown shortly after 11 am. After three people were injured. Its understood that the injuries are not life threatening. Emergency services responded, including wales air ambulance. Pupils have now been released to their very worried parents, who were gathered outside of the school. Well, outside of the school. Well, three men have been arrested following the deaths of five migrants, including a young girl, while trying to cross the engush girl, while trying to cross the English Channel yesterday. The National Crime agency says they were arrested on suspicion of facilitating illegal immigration and entering the uk illegally. Those detained include two sudanese men aged 22 and 19, and a 22 year old. South sudan national. It comes as figures from the home office show that more than 400 migrants crossed the channel yesterday. A man has the channel yesterday. A man has been charged after a nine Year Old Girl was kidnapped in knightsbridge in central london. 56 year old robert prussack was charged with multiple offences including kidnap and Sexual Assault on a female under 13 years old. The child was reported missing on Brompton Roadin reported missing on Brompton Road in london on monday. Reported missing on Brompton Road in london on monday. Well, road in london on monday. Well, the Prime Minister insists that his defence spending pledge is fully funded, though he declined to rule out cuts in other areas. The government has committed to reaching 2. 5 of gdp by the year 2030 and is encouraging other members of nato to match that amount. Speaker in berlin, next to his german counterpart, rishi sunak , said that rising sunak, said that rising conflicts around the world are making defence spending more urgent. We meet as a war rages on our continent and new threats are rising around the world. And olaf, i want to congratulate you on your leadership in recognising the zeitenwende and you taking the historic decision to increase germanys defence spending. And we stand here today together as the leading defence spenders in europe , defence spenders in europe, unshakeable nato allies and the two Largest Military supporters of ukraine in europe. And together we will continue to provide unwavering support for our ukrainian friends. As you said, for as long as it takes. Said, for as long as it takes. The government has defended a decision to not abolish no fault evictions with immediate effect after the long promised reforms came under fire during pmqs today, deputy Prime Minister Oliver Dowden insisted that the reforms would be delivered as promised, despite uncertainty over when they might take effect. Housing ministerjacob young said moments ago that abolishing no fault evictions would create chaos for landlords, and change must happenin landlords, and change must happen in an orderly way. But labours deputy leader angela raynen labours deputy leader Angela Rayner, says the government has made empty promises for 14 years. They failed renters, they failed leaseholders and they failed leaseholders and they fail mortgage holders. But mr speaken fail mortgage holders. But mr speaker, i read with interest that the right honourable gentleman has been urging his neighbour in number 10 to call an election because hes worried they might get wiped out. Has he they might get wiped out. Has he finally realised that when he stabbed Boris Johnson in the back to get his main into number 10, he was ditching their biggest election winner for a pint size loser. The head of tiktok says the social media app isnt going anywhere after President Biden signed a law that could see it bannedin signed a law that could see it banned in the us after growing concerns over the potential for the Chinese Government to influence its algorithm and content. The new law would force tiktoks chinese owner to sell or face a ban. The companys ceo says he expects to win a legal challenge staying in the us , and challenge staying in the us, and President Biden has signed a new aid package for ukraine into law. It ends months of uncertainty over whether the us would continue supporting kyiv, and comes after the bill passed the house of representatives on saturday. That was a show of bipartisan support. Ukraines president zelenskyy says it reinforces the us as a beacon of democracy. The former leader of democracy. The former leader of the Democratic Unionist Party , the Democratic Unionist Party, sir jeffrey donaldson, has been released on bail. Northern irelands longest serving mp was suspended from the dup following his arrest last month for whats been described as historical sex charges, including one count of rape. His wife has also been rape. His wife has also been charged with aiding and abetting in relation to the same investigation. In his resignation letter, he said he would be strenuously contesting the allegations and finally, the government is set to face a high Court Challenge against its xl bully ban. Campaign group dont ban me license me has been given permission to bring legal action against the department for environment and rural affairs. The large bulldog type american breed was added to a banned list in october last year, following a series of attacks. Campaigners a series of attacks. Campaigners argue that the ban is unlawful and irrational, but government lawyers say the challenge should be dismissed. Well, for the latest stories, you can sign up for gb news alerts. All you need to do is scan the qr code on the right hand side of your screen right hand side of your screen right now, or go to gb news commerce. Now back to. Michelle. Commerce. Now back to. Michelle. Thank you very much for that. Ryan Michelle Dewberry im with you till 7 00 tonight alongside me, the former mep and conservative peer in the house of lords, Jacqueline Foster , and of lords, Jacqueline Foster, and the co founder of novara media, Aaron Bastani. Good evening to Aaron Bastani. Good evening to both of you. And you know the drill, though its not just about us, its very much about you guys at home as well. Whats on your mind tonight . You can get in touch with me all the usual ways. You can still email or tweet or x me. And of course you can get on to the website gbnews. Com yoursay loads of people email me and say this new website. So the email address doesnt work. Gbnews. Com yoursay isnt an email address. You go to the gbnews. Com website. Click on your say. Youll see it there. Theres a button right at there. Theres a button right at the very top, and thats how you can get in touch with me there. As many of you already are. Gb news memberjack as many of you already are. Gb news member jack says as many of you already are. Gb news memberjack says give it news member jack says give it a rest, michelle. Cor blimey, its only about 6 07. Jack i cant give it a rest yet because itll be a boring show. Hes talking about my question at the top of the hour about whether or not the hour about whether or not the uk needs to stop or pause arms sales into israel, he says the uk needs israel more than ever before, apparently, well, its not me bringing up these questions. This was, of course, questions. This was, of course, a committee in Parliament Today debating that exact question. So hencei debating that exact question. So hence i thought id put it to you guys at home. Let me know your thoughts on it. But of course, big news today. Can you imagine being a parent or a grandparent and youve got a child, a school, and then you get a call to say that that school is in lockdown . Can you imagine the fear, the chill that would run through your spine . It does not bear thinking about. But thats exactly what happened , at a school in south wales today. Let me cross live right there. Now to, gb news. Reporter jack carson. Jack, good evening to you. Bring everybody up to speed in. What on earth has been going on . Well, michelle, weve just heard from superintendent ross evans, the carmarthenshire commander , who has delivered a commander, who has delivered a statement and an update here outside the amman Valley School in south wales. He said that just after 11 20 am. This morning, thats when they received a call from this school to say that they had had an incident. And then Emergency Services immediately attended. Services immediately attended. Police, as well as the Welsh Ambulance service also sending two air ambulances because it was two teachers, two confirmed and a teenage pupil that was stabbed at the school this morning and they have arrested a teenage girl, the police say on on suspicion of attempted murder and she remains in police custody. They are working with the school, they say, and other agencies to provide that support to the pupils and to anyone who needs it. Of course, other teachers very much as well, heanng teachers very much as well, hearing that two of their colleagues have been stabbed here at the school this morning, they say that this was a very distressing incident and that their thoughts are with the victims, the families and everyone affected by this, and also appealing to the public that there is footage, reportedly of the incident going around on social media. And, to remove this as well. Darren remove this as well. Darren price, whos the leader of carmarthenshire county council, also issuing that warning to people the wearing of contempt of court to remove that footage from social media if they have put that on there, i mean, Welsh Ambulance service as well. Also released a statement this morning from a spokeswoman saying that they were called just after 11 15 am. To the school here. They sent for emergency ambulances and the Hazardous Area Response team to the scene where crews treated people on site, including advanced Critical Care support delivered by the service, as well in in transfer to the hospital as well. But of course, it was just after 3 20 that the kids were released from this school. This school went into lockdown. It was the teachers and students being told that it was a code red. It was a full lockdown here at the school. They were released later this evening, of course an afternoon to parents hugging them in their arms. Arms. Cor blimey, it hook your kid like youve never hooked them before. I imagine. Jack carson, thank you very much for that update , danny. Ill start with update, danny. Ill start with you on this one. Obviously someone has been arrested in that particular case. Lets go too much into the ins and outs of this, one when it comes to a debate. But more broadly, what do you thinks going on . Because, young people now , because, young people now, whether its sharp implements, whether its sharp implements, whether its sharp implements, whether its knives , whatever, whether its knives, whatever, it certainly feels, that there seems to be more of this stuff around, doesnt it . Around, doesnt it . Well, theres certainly an issue of knife crime generally. We know that in particular with big cities. I have to say, though, and this is obviously an appalling incident, multiple people have been attacked. Nobody, fortunately, is looking at life threatening injuries right now. I mean, i was growing right now. I mean, i was growing up only, what, 30 years ago and this sort of thing was happening. And the idea that somehow children have become reprobates overnight. I somehow children have become reprobates overnight. I remember the 90s, the late 90s, the early 2000, and there were stories of teachers quite unfortunately and unforgivably, frankly, being assaulted by children. So this assaulted by children. So this isnt new. I dont think. I isnt new. I dont think. I think we need a fundamental rethink around the kind of culture within which children are raised. I would like to see smartphones banned from schools, let alone kids stabbing people , let alone kids stabbing people, but i dont i dont think its necessarily new. When you say smartphones banned from schools, do you mean i. E. Kids just cant take them to school . Or do you mean literally, there should be a sales ban, i. E. You cant sell, a smartphone to a child prohibiting the sale of something to their parents, which might mean prohibiting the sale of smartphones, strikes me as quite hard, because thats what a lot of parents are campaigning for, to make it illegal for kids to actually have smartphones. Whereas there are many pilots where School Schools literally dont let the children have phones on their person in the school thats happened, theyve been very successful. Swedens just done it. They had a pilot very effective. And you know what kids benefit the most working class kids. The poorest kids benefit the most because theyre the ones on this stuff theyre the ones on this stuff the most. Their concentration is savage, the most. So i think we need a fundamental rethink about the culture. We raise children in this country. Absolutely. But i would just say, lets take pause for a moment. Is this particular new look . Im 40 particular new look . Im 40 years old. Awful, dreadful things were happening to , to things were happening to, to teachers when i was growing up not that long ago. So the worst thing that ever happened to teachers when i was at school, i remember i shouldnt laugh because it was awful, i remember a supply teacher actually getting locked in a cupboard by one of my fellow classmates. Obviously nothing to do with me. I certainly dont remember this kind of, violence level of violence meted out towards teachers. But what do you make to all of this . I mean, there was a little lad, yesterday was only about 14 or 15, and he got anedin only about 14 or 15, and he got knifed in front of all of his classmates and stuff like that. Its shocking, isnt it . I think the problem is theres been zero tolerance, i personally think that , the first personally think that, the first time, whether its a youth, if wed say were looking at youths, say were looking at that sort of age group, i think, and anybody older, i think if you are caught carrying a knife, an offensive weapon, because its not just a machete , dont its not just a machete, dont forget, you can go into your mums kitchen and theres a drawer full of knives so you cant stop them. For example, you cant say, well, they cant buy them on the internet because they dont need to. Frankly so a lot of these machetes and things will theyll be all given around. Theyll be all in the sort of black economy. And the gangs hold them, i think weve been too soft on all of this , i been too soft on all of this, i think its the wrong, i think the wrong direction is to say. Well, of course its a lot of, you know, quite working class kids. Whatever. Thats. It cant be an excuse. This is this has become endemic and it has been over the last 30 years. We saw, you know, teachers being murdered in london. Yeah. And weve seen the rise in, crime also in america and gun crime as well, because its easy for them to get guns. So my personal view is if you are caught with a knife, i think you should be detained. And i think we need to detained. And i think we need to have things like youth detention centres. I dont think community, you know, a community, you know, a community, if theyre going out to, well, go and do some Community Service for 20 hours. I dont think anything like that works. And unless we have some sort of zero tolerance. So first offence behind bars essentially is that would you agree with that . Aaron i dont know. Aaron i dont know. Im not im not a Young Offenders kind of professional. What i would say is we have very high rates of reoffending in this country. And i would be cunous this country. And i would be curious as to why that is the case. But first offence, i think everybody deserves a second chance. Generally but obviously if you do something appalling. Yeah, but we cant. That doesnt hold obviously. Yeah but we cant because this is escalating. It doesnt stop. There doesnt seem to be a id like somebody to tell me what the deterrent is, because the slap on the wrist is not working a lot of it is linked to some of these county lines. And we know a lot of its also linked. Not necessarily this case. Were not talking about the one today, but a lot of these cases around london and with the kids, we know that the sort of drugs lords get hold of them. And then of course, for their protection, probably theyre given knives and all these sorts of things. So its also trying to break all of that down. So again, its raising this whole thing. We have to have a, a concept here that is zero tolerance. The public and children we cant allow this to keep escalating because its just its just getting out of hand. We need real tough zero tolerance. We dont have a zero tolerance approach for anything. Well, this is my this is why im saying literally anything. So i mean, chance would be a fine thing, but i mean, we cant even have a zero tolerance for things like shoplifting. Oh, well, thats another issue. We were thinking of talking about. I mean, there just have to people have to. We know what the law is. We have a rule of law. Sometimes people do go along the wrong path and we dont want to. We dont want to punish them for the rest of their lives. But when were talking about life threatening, which is what this is, without any shadow of a doubt, we really have to take a much, much, much tougher approach on this and what were doing at the moment where theyre being let off the hook. Thats back in the community. And, you know, so its wider. And they also need to be focusing on those that are encouraging the kids to carry these weapons. One of my viewers, paul , has one of my viewers, paul, has got in touch and said, juves the problem here is that all of this is not shocking anymore. No so i mean, you say no. Do you not find that because i found todays episode very shocking . It is shocking, but the thing is its a there was in liverpool where obviously im from remember the there was the there were the kids in the, in the some kids had a little bit of an altercation and a 12 Year Old Girl and ended up being stabbed in the neck. I mean, and died. You know, this is all the time, but im only saying its not shocking because because its happening so frequently these days, people arent generally shocked when we were younger. If you look at 30, 40 years ago, if somebody was stabbed, it was often headline news, you know, on, on, on the main broadcasters. But what i would say is, i think a lot, a lot of it is social media in so much as i remember tiktok, i remember being a kid big shout out to Martin Kemp Welch school in bournemouth, which i didnt go to. I went to the Grammar School and if i didnt get into the Grammar School, i would have gone to camp welsh. And camp welsh would repeatedly have these Horror Stories of people being, you know, stabbed with knives in the in the you know, the canteen or a teacher was assaulted with a broken chair. And my mum was like, we have to make sure you do not go to that school. So its not that new. I think, you know, if youre comparing today to say, to the 60s, the 70s, even the 80s, huge difference to the early 2000, i dont think, and we agree on that. So i think the idea that, you know, in the last 5 to 10 years, something has snapped. I dont think thats let me ask you a couple of a couple of viewers have got in touch. Theres a general theme here because philip says on a more general point, michelle in wales, you cant even smack your own child when theyre being naughty, teachers are now afraid to even look at children in the wrong way. Hence, youve got no discipline in schools and ian says, why is there not a broader discussion when you get to these kind of points about the reintroduction of Corporal Punishment . Reintroduction of Corporal Punishment . So is that what were missing . Like that people , were missing . Like that people, because people are not physically able to chastise their child . I mean, is that really the root of it . Well, im from a generation and we did get a slap. You know, im not talking about punching or whatever, but you certainly got a slap on the hand or Something Like that. If you were sticking your hand in the fire. And so im not suggesting that. But the thing is, its like going from one extreme to the other , one minute theres other, one minute theres a great deal of discipline. And there was when i was growing up. And then the pendulum, i think, has swung too far the other way. So its not about some physical punishment necessarily, but i just think as a general rule , just think as a general rule, kids know, kids very often know they can get away with it because there isnt the punishment. There isnt a punishment. There isnt a punishment. At the end of the day, the parents also need to take responsibility, frankly. And i think there are too many parents or, you know, there may be just allowing these things to happen or have mobile phones 20 hours a day looking at this rubbish on here. And theyve got to take responsibility too, because i just think its a its a great tragedy and we could do without it very quickly. Your thoughts are on those viewer comments. I would say actually my biggest misgiving about all of this is when parents tell teachers theyre wrong. I remember growing up in at school and if i moaned and said the teacher had done something bad, or i had been hard done by at school, my dad and mum would say, well, youre the kid, youre wrong. Theyre right. Now, thats not always a healthy attitude. It is, but were not always. Sometimes the kid is right most of the time. Yeah, but its relatively productive. And i feel really sorry for teachers now, if they try to discipline children not physically, but just trying to maintain some kind of authoritative relationship with them, and thats undermined by them, and thats undermined by the parents. That, for me is a bigger problem than a lack of Corporal Punishment or whatever. I vaguely remember a School Teacher chucking a blackboard, rubber down the classroom, but these are i mean, you cant call it a blackboard anymore. Never mind lobbing a rubber that way, can you . Anyway, let me know your thoughts on its all coming up after the break. I want to bnng up after the break. I want to bring up that topic that got that first viewer hot under the collar, theres been a Committee Meeting today looking at the simple question about whether or not the uk should essentially stop, selling arms to israel. So im putting that question out there to you at home, should we or not . And if so, tell me why. See you in two. Hi there. Michelle dewberry, this is dewbs co with you till 7 00 alongside me. Ive got the former mep and conservative peer in the house of lords, Jacqueline Foster and the co founder of novara media, Aaron Bastani. Weve just been having a chat in the break about whether or not im right in what im saying, or whether or not ive just been dreaming things. Can you still say a blackboard in schools . Any teachers out there . I dont think you can. But apparently you can, i dont know, get in touch. I get confused about what you can and cant say these days, anyway , cant say these days, anyway, look, i want to get, into a very important and very divisive topic, i have to say. And this is about whether or not the uk essentially should be exporting arms over into israel. Now, theres, a committee sitting today that was trying to explore that very issue. Ive got to say that very issue. Ive got to say that very issue. Ive got to say that it did start off quite terse, actually, when it came to who was actually attending that committee. Listen, we did not hear from ministers over the course of easter. We therefore chased both departments last week and received a reply on friday that they were not able to be with us today , despite 20 days notice. Today, despite 20 days notice. I have, however , received have, however, received a message from the Deputy Foreign secretary this morning apologising for his department and making clear that the Foreign Office will participate at the earliest opportunity. I have to tell the committee that, to my regret, we have not had any messages from the department for business and trade, which of course has policy responsibility for arms exports, strategic licences as well. Yeah. So there you go. That kind of gives you a flavour of that. But ive got to say this is such a tense subject because already i mean ive just read out, the viewers email at the start saying that i should even be giving this a rest. This shouldnt really be getting, airtime. Perhaps, but this is an important issue. Where do you stand on it, jacqueline . Well, i think you have to separate the two things out. We have a theatre of war which was avoidable, which ill come to in avoidable, which ill come to in a minute. And what we have, and a minute. And what we have, and it happens so, so often is there are often volunteers and charities and then they will take part and they will go and help in all of these war zones around the world, weve had, some of our Charity Workers and theyve been taken hostage. Weve had them murdered in various places and they do know that there is a terrible risk when they do that. And we all when they do that. And we all hope that nothing happens to them. But unfortunately, sometimes things do. And your way talking about, just in case anyones not familiar with jacquelines talking about, is the world central kitchen, shes talking about the three british aid workers that were killed in an air strike there. The air strike in gaza. Yeah. And, so the positive point on thatis and, so the positive point on that is that the idf or the Israeli Defence force are looking into that. And i think looking into that. And i think they came up with the fact that there had been it could have been done something to do with intelligence. But, they then found obviously an accident had occurred and theyve been full and frank and open about that, which brings me then to the circumstances, as they are, because all of this actually just as a point of interest dunng just as a point of interest during the falklands islands, we lost troops because us ships were fired on by exocet missiles. Exocet missiles are built by france, so there is a massive Defence Industry and i think in this particular case, we only probably export 1 or 2 of weapons to israel because they build their own, and then others are imported in. So it is fairly complicated, but, and it is a very sensitive but in essence, do you think its right then that the uk does carry it on carry on. Absolutely. Because you have to separate. You have to separate the two. You have to separate the two. In this particular case, i understand this drone. It was a drone type weapon , it happened to have been weapon, it happened to have been built or part of it could have been built in the uk, but you know, if the if hamas and its cohorts, 3000 of them had not gone over the border on october the 7th, we wouldnt even need to have had this conversation. To have had this conversation. You we ended up with a war zone. Weve ended up with thousands of people being killed. Weve still got british hostages, and we have to be careful that we also dont divert attention from what is still going on, because we still have people who are being held. Hamas have totally refused to have, release the hostages. So they refuse to have a ceasefire. And we really need to move this forward. So as serious as this is , i dont believe as this is, i dont believe theres any justification for us to say that we have to stop our exporting our weapons to israel. I do want to say, actually, because there was a yougov poll. Ill bring you in in a second, aaron, because there was a yougov poll, this was conducted on the 4th of april, just to give you a broader sense of what people seem to think there. And when they were asked a question, would you support or oppose the uk ending the sale of arms to israel for the duration of the conflicts in gaza . 40, of responders apparently said that they would strongly support that. 18 said that they would somewhat support that , an 8 somewhat support that, an 8 that they would somewhat oppose that. And 10 said they would strongly oppose it, and 24 said they did not know. What do you think, karen . Well, i think think, karen . Well, i think thats common sense. I find actually the video you showed at the top of this story of these politicians , civil of these politicians, Civil Servants and whatnot, not even not even attending , not even not even attending, not even attending this select committee with liam byrne, i believe it was, three british nationals have died, three ex Service Personnel have died under very, very strange circumstances. Theyve been explained by the idf. But thats because weve allowed them to explain it themselves. Weve said, please investigate yourselves. The investigate yourselves. The exception, by the way, is the poles. A polish nationals also killed. And i think their their solicitor general effectively is looking into whats going on there. I dont understand why we cant do the same. And i dont view this as a left right thing, pro anti israel, anything like that. I think a country with self respect that puts its nationals first would have said, were going to suspend arms sales for a week, two weeks, to send a signal that you cant do this to our people. But it seems to me that britain isnt a country that respects itself anymore. The first task of anymore. The first task of a government is to protect the people of this country. We have three aid workers, like i say, three aid workers, like i say, three former Service Personnel. Theyre killed by the idf. The investigation is conducted by the idf, and we continue to sell weapons to the idf. I think weapons to the idf. I think David Cameron made that determination literally a few days after they were killed. And its the engine of the drones that we used in this particular instance, which are probably manufactured in the uk. The idea that british made weapons or british made technology is complicit in the deaths of peaceful uk nationals. I find utterly extraordinary. If britain was selling weapons to hamas, that would be a live debate. But we fortunately hold israel to a higher standard than hamas. People say, well, why are hamas. People say, well, why are you holding them to a higher standard . I think israel would probably want that, frankly. Well, janice, one of my viewers, she says, michel, we need to sell more and we need to finish the job. Otherwise this conflict will last forever , she says. I mean, what what not talking about. Theres 130 hostages that about. Theres130 hostages that are still being held , in gaza by are still being held, in gaza by hamas. And a number of those are hamas. And a number of those are british. And this is part of it. So its not about whos british actually, whos not from our point of view. Clearly, three of the Charity Workers were at and as i said, and ill come back to that initial point when you are in a theatre of war, the risks are phenomenal, and weve seen it through all of these wars, all the warfare. There are things happen under whats called friendly fire and under very difficult circumstances. The main thing is then when these things happen, people own up to that. They investigate it. What i find actually astonishing is id like to see a bit more hell and damnation on hamas and its cohorts and those sitting in qatar and iran, who have been responsible for all of this, where if it not had happened on october the 7th, we wouldnt even have to have this conversation. Weve had thousands of people who have been murdered , massacred and been murdered, massacred and tortured. Weve obviously had ended up in a total war zone here, its a complete mess. And here, its a complete mess. And so, you know, at the end of the day, we do have we are the second biggest manufacturer outside the usa for defence, in the planet. Were not going to change government policy on that. What has happened has been a tragic, accident. But then again, so you stop sending some of the, the, the certain drones or engines to whatever it would make no difference at all if hamas do what it should do and agree to a ceasefire and agree to surrender and agree to let the hostages go, then hopefully we wont have any more deaths. We wont have any more deaths. But i cant see that coming ehhen i ehhen ican ehhen i can tell you youre completely divided about this at home because peter says just simply, no, we should absolutely not be selling any arms to israel. But john says we should completely continue to arm israel. Who went after you think started this . Israel is the only country to have the balls, he says, to stand up to hamas , says, to stand up to hamas, diana said, is everyone forgetting some of the stated aims of hamas . She says, they seem to want to get rid of every single last jew. I would are we happy to allow that . Of course we should continue to help israel, terry, says michelle, it wont make a jot of difference if we decided to stop because we supply so little anywhere, it really is still a divisive issue. And thats not going to change any time soon. Aaron, is it . No its not. I mean, britain does service israeli f 35s, which are very key to their air force and also, look, lets be real, israel wouldnt exist without britain if you look at the idfs military technology right after 1948, all of it was british. So this idea that britain cant paw paw, britain cant do anything, it cant stand up to israel and say, look, youre a friend. Say, look, youre a friend. Youve got this very badly wrong. We are going to give you a slap on the wrist, which a suspension of arms sales briefly would have been. I think thats the correct, self respecting sort of course, of action to pursue. And what i would say is, i mean, i condemned hamas on october 7th when that happened, and i obviously hope the british nationals, as is true with all the hostages, are freed. And for that precise reason, i want those people to live and be free. I also find it deeply objectionable that three uk aid workers were killed. They were killed on a de conflicted route. There were lines of communication with the idf. This communication with the idf. This absolutely should not have happened. It is not like friendly fire. This absolutely should have been averted. It was should have been averted. It was a systematic failure of idf intelligence that it wasnt averted. And like i say, the fact that you dont even have a slap on the wrist, a temporary suspension of arms sales, i think shows the lack of self respect and shame our politicians. Politicians. I just think this is sort of naive. This is now you now going into the naive. You know, we are into the naive. You know, we are in a very, very difficult situation. What nobody is also mentioning is the number of Palestinian Civilians that hamas and its cohorts have killed themselves, those when they were trying to move south, they were shooting their own civilians in the backs. They were making sure that they were keeping civilians as their women and children. Theyve hidden behind women and children in this regime for, you know, for the last 15 years. See what thats got to do with the idf . This is this is what they this is what they do. So to, you know, as i mentioned earlier, i was talking about the exocet missiles that killed British Service Service Personnel during the falklands. Do we then turn the falklands. Do we then turn around at the time and say to france, by the way, some of our. Well, there they are in another war zone. Yes, is the answer. Yes, is the answer. But it doesnt work like that. Well, it does, because the european partners. Youre being naive. No, because this is just not the way the world works. Well, im pretty sure, margaret, that we have to do is recognise when errors are made, own up to when errors are made, own up to when errors are made and thats how thats the grown up conversation. And then what we all try and do. Theres rules laid down with geneva conventions and everything else. You try and make sure that people comply to that. But terrorists dont understand the conventions and they never stick to them. In any case, this is not going to be a conversation that goes away any time soon. As i said, divided on the panel and divided among you guys at home, let me know your thoughts. So coming up after the break, i will move on because i want to ask you about councils, so many of them in an absolute mess. Now do you think there should be a rush now to try and shore up their debts by selling their assets . Tell me your thoughts. See you in two. Hello there. Im Michelle Dewberry with you till 7 00 tonight. Ive got baroness , tonight. Ive got baroness, Jacqueline Foster and Aaron Bastani alongside me , i want to bastani alongside me, i want to just draw your attention before italk just draw your attention before i talk about councils. I do just want to draw your attention quickly to the goings on in Parliament Today. Did you listen to something that Angela Rayner said . What have you missed . It he was stitching their biggest election winner for a pint size loser. So the context of that very briefly , is that Angela Rayner briefly, is that Angela Rayner was basically saying to Oliver Dowden , youve youve kind of dowden, youve youve kind of stabbed your , election winner, stabbed your, election winner, bofis stabbed your, election winner, Boris Johnson in the back in order to back that pint sized loser. Obviously she means rishi sunak. What do you think to that comment . Aaron bastani very mean, i think i think the electorate likes a bit of, you know, they like a bit of tough stuff from politicians. But i think she went over the line from tough to unnecessarily mean. And i look the exact same. Labour party would have criticised donald trump for calling various politicians little, little, little rocket man. He used to call he that was who was it . Mike bloomberg, little mike used to call him. And the exact same labour party would say, this is outrageous populist demagogue. How unacceptable. She sort of done the exact same thing. What do you think to that . Doesit what do you think to that . Does it bother you . No. I think its absolute no. I think its absolute nonsense to even think about it. Do you . I do, i mean, they had a good spat and obviously oliver had a good crack at her over her being, you know, owning more many houses. And so i think there was quite a lot of toing and froing. I doubt whether rishi will even have thought about it. Yeah. In any event, and ive always said actually in politics, you know, you know, if you cant take it, dont dish it out. So i think what was going on between them, i think over that half an hour. Well it was probably a probably a draw. At the end of the day theres somewhat sensitive i think, about being a short. Too many people are sensitive. No, i think theres something short or sensitive in being a short or sensitive in being a short man. Im not a short man, but i have. I am a woman thats been on dating sites, and ive always noticed how many women say, over six foot, over six foot. Have you ever noticed what i mean . Thats a problem with dating sites, isnt it . They say over six foot, £400,000 income iq of 140. Thats a 0. 1 of the population. Well, if youre if youre opera was large, you wouldnt describe them. You wouldnt sell your back to a whale sized loser. Exactly. So i just think i dont know. Are we all getting a little bit oversensitive . Do you care . Are you a short man . Did that make you bristle or not, look, i do want to talk councils because so many of them are in an absolute mess, now its become apparent that many of them are starting to offload some of their assets , often at some of their assets, often at pnces some of their assets, often at prices way below market value. Do you think this is a good strategy . Is it a bit too short . Termist but i think its a crazy strategy, a great comparison here is between portsmouth and southampton. You go up the m27, youve got these two great port cities. Portsmouth has a publicly owned port, which last year made a profit of £8 million. Some gets reinvested into the port, some goes to the council keeps council tax low. Southampton sold their much larger port, the second largest port in the country , the largest port in the country, the largest ferry and cruise port in the country. They sold that in the country. They sold that in the early 1990s and theyre broke and if you speak to politicians in southampton today, they are jealous of the publicly owned port in portsmouth because the revenues from that allow the city to do so much more, including keeping council tax lower. Now, should councils sell things as assets which dont make money, to bring some cash in . Yeah, maybe. But the point is generally speaking, youre going to sell an asset and someones going to want to buy an asset because it makes them money. And selling Revenue Generating assets in business and in private life is generally not a smart thing to do. Not a smart thing to do. Business people dont like to do it. And yet its something that repeatedly politicians want. Pubuc repeatedly politicians want. Public authorities, particularly councils , to do. So i think its councils, to do. So i think its shortsighted. It doesnt make sense. And i think the example sense. And i think the example of portsmouth contre southampton really sums up how we should think about this issue. Do you agree with that, jacqueline . Councils across the country hold billions in reserve. When you look at actually what theyve got and thats thats fine. And then complain that theyre short of money more often than not, but a lot of these situations, to me, a lot of this is about bad management, its about waste. And youve only got to ask the local Council Tax Payers in places where you live and just see how good your services are, or theyre not predominantly Labour Councils are not great. Theyre normally dreadful. Actually youve only got to see whats been going on in birmingham and theyve also made many of them throughout the country. Theyve also made investments. Im not talking now about a building or something, but sort of cash investments. I remember there was one in the invest in something to do with iceland or something to do with iceland or Something Like that, and they lost millions and millions. So theres been many of them and they have lost millions through bad investments and bad advice. In terms of the assets, it could be buildings or whatever it is. Should they be selling them off for, you know, a relatively small, small amount of money . No. They shouldnt. What they need to do is they need to get their act together and they need to provide Good Services because theyre normally getting plenty of money from the Council Taxpayer and from central government. To do that, they need to look at how they can maybe generate more revenue, then have a look at their Business Rates. Can they do something about making sure the high streets are becoming vibrant . Can they make sure that the Business Rates arent crucifying businesses and start ups . You know, theres so many things on all of this, but its immediately the go to whinge, whinge who the government needs to short of money. This is normally Labour Councils and all. We never have enough money to do anything. Theyve got plenty of money, they just need to know how to manage it and get on with it and do what the taxpayers want them to do. They get off talking. Ive not. Ive not looked at my inbox yet while ive been talking, but i bet my Bottom Dollar that at least a couple of you have written in and said, but what about gordon brown and the gold reserve and what he did with the price that i bet im going to have a look in a minute. And i bet some of you have written in and said that to me after the break, i will carry on the conversation about politicians. Im asking you, do you think they should be able to present tv and radio shows and let me know your thoughts about that Angela Rayner comment as see. Hello, everyone. Im michelle dubin. Im with you till 7 00 tonight. The former mep and conservative peer in the house of lords, Jacqueline Foster, and the co founder of novara media, Aaron Bastani, are alongside me. One of my viewers have just got in touch, frank actually, and he says the present lady guest on your programme, obviously you, jacqueline , is the nearest ive jacqueline, is the nearest ive seen to margaret thatcher. Its a crime that shes not in sunaks cabinet. She says, thank you so much. There you go. Ive been asking you as well. Speaking of, political goings on, are you bothered about that Angela Rayner comment about rishi sunak being pint sized , or rishi sunak being pint sized, or not . I want to know your thoughts on that. But i also want to ask you, speaking of politicians, ofcom is basically been doing focus groups and stuff like that, looking at whether or not politicians should be able to continue to present programmes on news channels such as gb news anyway , channels such as gb news anyway, long story short, yes. Is the short answer. Yes we can, of short answer. Yes we can, of course, with rules and strings attached, especially when it comes to important things like due impartiality. Aaron bastani do you agree with this with with politicians being able to present shows theres a balance, there is a balance. And i think actually most journalism should be done by journalists generally speaking, the best interviews of politicians that really get them on the ropes are conducted by journalists, but i do feel a bit sorry for gb news, insomuch as the real market leaders in this regard were lbc, lbc. Ive been doing this for a very long time of doing opinion led journalism, which is fine. Its legitimate with politicians fronting it, and i do think theres a difference between, say, somebody like nigel farage, who is a is a national figure, whos not really been he has never been really prominent within one of the two major parties. I think theres a difference between nigel farage doing an opinion led show and a serving tory politician reading news bulletins because theres breaking news, and ofcom have made that judgement and theyve said ones appropriate and ones not. So i think broadly speaking its a sensible set of conclusions. But i do think theres a balance. And i think theres a balance. And i think the best journalism is done by journalists. Jacqueline, what do you think . 7 im . Im fairly 7 im fairly sort . Im fairly sort of 7 im fairly sort of agnostic about it because the whole thing about it because the whole thing about news, i spent 35 years now involved in Party Politics and initially, you know, i was interviewed generally it was on bbc or sky as an mep or a parliamentary candidate and that sort of stuff. And if were talking then about, you know , talking then about, you know, political, you know, the political, you know, the political leanings of these channels and whatever, i mean, it was pretty obvious over the last 20 odd years which way certainly the bbc very often was sort of leaning, even with the presenters. I mean , there were presenters. I mean, there were many who didnt. They werent hiding their light under the bushel, frankly, you still see it, i think, in programmes like question time and you see it with the big contretemps with Nick Robinson on radio four. I mean, so i think its a great shame, because theyve moved a long way from that. So of course, then weve got gb news talk. They come into this, and then weve had some of our politicians , i dont mind politicians, i dont mind really. And to be fair , nigel really. And to be fair, nigel farage, you know, im not im not in his anything to do with his party, but he presents a programme. I think its good. I think the public can make up their own mind what they want to heat their own mind what they want to hear. And then we went over that. Weve got presenters. Some seem to lean a little bit that way, some lean that way. And but the public can make up their mind about it. So i think its a theres been a lot of the left whove been complaining about gb news and also in the bbc were complaining because youre doing really rather well. Well. So i think theres an underlying theres a bit of an underlying, thing going on here. But for me, keep going. Keep going. I say keep going. Jacqueline says, ive got to confess, i actually dont think that serving, politicians should present , these kind of present, these kind of programmes. Thats just my humble opinion. And obviously many people disagree. I just would like mps , serving ones would like mps, serving ones anyway, to be spending more time in their constituencies doing constituency led stuff and dont even get me started on serving politicians doing things like reality tv shows. Ill blow a gasket. So dont even get me started on that one, i can tell you, anyway, lesley says , she you, anyway, lesley says, she loves watching Jacob Rees Mogg and lee anderson. Excellent and lee anderson. Excellent debates with interesting guests, she said its to good see politicians and gain their insight into things. Politicians and gain their insight into things. Nigel insight into things. Nigel farage can speak for himself, but i think that he might even describe himself as an ex politician. Im sure he will reveal his thoughts on his programme, when it comes to the council selling their assets , as council selling their assets, as les says michel, council should stop wasting our taxes on net zero wokery and high flying salaries and gold plated pensions , and then maybe they pensions, and then maybe they might not need to sell off the family silver. When it comes to, Angela Rayner talking about, rishi sunaks height in pmqs, jamie says go on, angela, youve absolutely destroyed the tories. Frank says sunak is vertically challenged , so its a great challenged, so its a great crack by her. Simon says people are just so rude in society these days. Our politicians should be setting an example, the rights example, he carryouts that with anthony, says. For once, rayner made a witty point nobody should be upset. After all, its one of the most accurate things shes ever said, says anthony. There ever said, says anthony. There you go. Thats all ive got time for aaron. Thanks for your company, jacqueline. Thank you for yours and thank you for all of your company at home. All views welcome and i shall see you tomorrow. But up next farage night. Night. A brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on. Gb news. Hi there and welcome to the gb news forecast from the met office. Its going to be chilly overnight through the next 24 hours. However, increasing cloud will bring further showers by the end of thursday. Weve got higher pressure ebbing away towards the west and this increased influence from low pressure to the east in between some clear spells overnight and a chilly northerly airflow. That means temperatures will fall quickly under any clear spells in rural sheltered spots. Temperatures will dip below freezing, generally in urban areas 4 to 6 celsius, and therell be variable amounts of cloud first thing as well. Theyll also be increasing amounts of showery rain moving through northern ireland, parts of wales, northern and central england, as well as the north east of scotland. The north east of scotland. The showery rain will become more widespread by the afternoon , so widespread by the afternoon, so for much of england and wales its a case of bright spells interspersed by showers, drier towards the northwest west of scotland, mostly dry, with some decent sunny spells. 12 or 13 decent sunny spells. 12 or 13 celsius here. 14 or 15 in the southwest. Just ten again on the nonh southwest. Just ten again on the north sea coast. Friday starts off cold with a frost in many places. A sunny start, but quite quickly the cloud will build and well see further showers here and there, particularly towards the east. The weekend brings more unsettled weather from the south. Longer spells of rain affecting many parts of england and wales. Drier for scotland and wales. Drier for scotland and northern ireland. Looks like things are heating up. Boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news. Good evening. Its happened again. Nick robinson from his lofty, comfortable perch at the bbc, is attacking gb news again. We debate tonight is gb news biased . Is gb news impartial . Does gb news fit with the law . Are providing due impartiality . Ihave are providing due impartiality . I have a feeling actually the traditional broadcasting industry are beginning to get rather scared of this channel. Well talk defence spending. The Prime Minister says were going onto a war footing. We will increase spending by 2030. But why not just do it now if were really on a war footing and Liam Halligan will come in to pay personal tribute to frank field, somebody whod been in british politics for over 40 years, and one of those very rare figures that commanded respect from both sides of the house. We heard this morning the announcement of his death at the age of