Transcripts For GBN GBN 20240703

Grounds for two hours on Christmas Day 2021, while the late queen was in residence. The old bailey heard today hed been in encouraged by an Artificial Intelligence virtual girlfriend with which hed exchanged thousands of messages. The judge said kale was nonsense , said kale was nonsense, psychotic and therefore culpable when he devised the plan. But he had lost touch with reality and become psychotic by the time he carried it out. Well, also in carried it out. Well, also in the news today, sir keir starmer has revealed an extra 700,000 urgent dental appointments would be introduced under a Labour Government in plans to improve the nations oral health. The party says it would also introduce supervised tooth brushing in schools across england in to order tackle preventable tooth decay in children. People in most need of treatments would be prioritised too, under proposals aimed at rescuing nhs dentistry. As they said, the plans would be financed. Labour says by using. Financed. Labour says by using. £111 million a year from abolishing non domicile tax status. Now in news from abroad status. Now in news from abroad now and at least 51 people are thought to have died after a Russian Missile hit a cafe Grocery Store in northeastern ukraine. Its reported the victims were holding a Memorial Service at the time. Ukrainian service at the time. Ukrainian officials have called it a heinous crime. The attack was the deadliest in kharkiv since the deadliest in kharkiv since the start of the war. Well, the Prime Minister has been meeting with ukrainian president Vladimir Volodymyr zelenskyy, saying europe must face down the threat from russia. Rishi sunak threat from russia. Rishi sunak is in spain for the European Political Community summit. The Prime Minister condemn todays attack in ukraine and reiterated the uks support for the ongoing war and rishi sunak said the only person responsible for the conflict was president putin. Just come from meeting president zelenskyy, where we discussed this horrific attack that has just happened. It just illustrates russias barbarity and president putin can say all he likes. There is one person he likes. There is one person responsible for this illegal, unprovoked war, and it is him and he should stop. And thats and he should stop. And thats why the uk has been steadfast in supporting ukraine and will continue to do so. Im proud that we were one of the first and we are one of the largest supporters of ukraine. That will continue to be the case. Princess of wales has now the princess of wales has joined some of englands world cup winning Wheelchair Rugby League squad. Today she got stuck in as well at the event in hull, where she sat in a wheelchair herself and gave the game a go. Kate whos patron of the rugby football league, is there to promote inclusive city in the sport. Much to the deught in the sport. Much to the delight of all the participants. Its on tv online, dab radio and the tune in app. This is gb and the tune in app. This is gb news, britains news channel. News, britains news channel. Welcome along. Lets get stuck straight in britain is shock horror, not a hateful country. We are not a nafion hateful country. We are not a nation of racist bigots and that now is a fact. The latest hate crime figures are in and recorded. Hate crimes are down recorded. Hate crimes are down 5. Race related hate crimes are down 6. Year on year for a long time, a lot of ordinary people have been looking at legacy Media Outlets or twitter and wondering what is this unwelcome , coming divided, racist country that youre describing . Because thats i see. Indeed, thats not what i see. Indeed, youd forgiven for wondering youd be forgiven for wondering why, if we really are that bad, it seems like the vast majority of the world would like to come and absolutely and live here. It absolutely cracks me up when tory mps said multiculturalism had failed and then the race baiters who tried to divide us all the time suddenly piped up to say what a wonderfully integrated and loving we actually are. Loving nation we actually are. They didnt realise they obviously didnt realise their simply disagree their desire to simply disagree with anything. A tory home secretary has to say. Fundamentally shattered their arguments about how unwelcoming and bigoted britain is. Then you and bigoted britain is. Then you factor in that weve had massive , massive increases in people from ethnic minority backgrounds coming to britain and rapid population growth in general , population growth in general, which means quite simply , we which means quite simply, we have more ethnic minorities than ever before and more people in general than ever before. And yet crimes are going down. Yet hate crimes are going down. That really doesnt suit their narrative, does it . There are areas where certain hate crimes areas where certain hate crimes are apparently going up. Transphobia for example. Now, ive got to be honest , i do ive got to be honest, i do treat that with a massive pinch of salt. Afraid very often of salt. Im afraid very often women who simply dont want men in changing rooms in their changing rooms or bathrooms called transphobic bathrooms are called transphobic people who dont want children to be transitioned and put on puberty. Blockers are called transphobic. Now, if these transphobic. Now, if these people are being reported to the police and the police are recording those incidents and im that to me is not im sorry, but that to me is not an increase in genuine transphobia. I would also point transphobia. I would also point to the fact that there are pretty much entire continents where being trans is essentially a death sentence. So you compare that to britain where wed happily let a trans person dance in front kids. Now, in front of kids. Now, apparently religious based hate crimes are up 9. A couple of points on this in 22 of recorded religious hate crimes. Recorded religious hate crimes. The religion was not known , the religion was not known, which does make me wonder slightly how on earth you can record that as a religious hate crime. I would crime. But there we go. I would also people that also politely remind people that there increasing number there is an increasing number of incidents between different ethnic saw ethnic communities. We saw clashes between hindus and muslims leicester for muslims in leicester for example, anti semitic example, or anti semitic incidents carried out by men of middle eastern appearance in london. My point here is that just because we see religious incidents going up, just because we see religious incidents going up , that does incidents going up, that does not necessarily mean that hate filled, swilling , gammon filled, lager swilling, gammon faced white men are shouting at muslims in the street. It does make me laugh when theres a protest about a Migrant Hotel and anti fascist artists or that refugees welcome brigade they bust themselves in from somewhere miles away to be confronted by the reality of the situation which is usually just a few locals. One bloke called colin his wife and the colin and his wife and the people have lost their jobs people who have lost their jobs at that hotel to make way for the channel migrants who are just a bit worried about the situation, they to be the situation, they tend to be the ones the hate. Not ones bringing the hate. Not colin when it comes ones bringing the hate. Not co peoples when it comes ones bringing the hate. Not co peoples political hen it comes ones bringing the hate. Not co peoples political beliefs, mes to peoples political beliefs, were tolerant. Look at were tolerant. Look at arch remainer steve bray. I mean, he literally spends his time shouting abuse at people through a megaphone or turning up at events and heckling people. And to my knowledge, i dont think anyones ever actually beaten him up, have they . And beaten him up, have they . And rightly so. There will be loads of people who actually of people who are actually really at these really disappointed at these hate crime figures because they are race baiting grifters who thrive off the Cottage Industry of stoking racial tensions in this country and portraying it as an awful place. Yes, there are issues. There are genuine racists and bigots out there , racists and bigots out there, but they are in decline actually. See, britain is lovely. It. See, britain is lovely. It always has been and it always will be. Lets get the thoughts of my panel. I have got Daily Telegraph columnist Allison Pearson , and ive got pearson, and ive got conservative peer lord bailey. Ive got author and broadcaster amy nicole turner, allison , ill amy nicole turner, allison, ill start with you on this. These these hate crime figures for me. Prove what i think a lot of people are saying, which is that actually we are not a hateful and racist nation. Were certainly not patrick and all the International Surveys and big International Surveys and big International Surveys say , well, one of the surveys say, well, one of the most tolerant countries in the world, often coming in the top two for gay people and for and for immigrants. Two for gay people and for and for immigrants. And i thought for immigrants. And i thought one of the loveliest parts of rishi sunak speech at the conference where he said , not conference where he said, not only am i proud to be the first British Asian Prime Minister, im proud that that wasnt a big deal im proud that that wasnt a big deal. True. In deal. Thats absolutely true. In america. That would have been the story. The story is now the story. The story is now people look at rishi and think, cant you get trout . The story well, it was the story because joe biden, after calling him then said on him rasheed sanuk, then said on the conservative party, whod have before have whod have thought before shuffling wrong shuffling off stage the wrong way . And, you know, i dont way . And, you know, i dont know, addressed. Know, getting addressed. But youre right. I think there know, on the there are, you know, on the left, of people want left, a lot of people who want to say this hate, hateful to say this is a hate, hateful institutionally country. Institutionally racist country. What about rise what i would say about the rise in , talking to trans in transphobia, talking to trans women this past week is that they think that the agitators, they think that the agitators, the political agitators, the stonewall are stirring up aggression in politically motivated aggression. Ian, which motivated aggression. Ian, which is making their lives very unpleasant. They want to live quietly. They want to fit in. They do not want these aggressive people making trans their cause aggressive people like our very Prime Minister there who stood up at conference and said women are women , trans and said women are women, trans people as a weapon on how. Okay, okay, go on by saying a man is a man and a woman is a woman is inferring that trans women are not women. Is as it is. And when mark harper when mark harper was asked qualify, it because it asked to qualify, it because it was was potentially against was it was potentially against the law say as much, he tried the law to say as much, he tried to distinguish between sex and genden to distinguish between sex and gender, but he was speaking about gender, wasnt he . Also so what . Im sorry, but so what if he says that a man is a man and a woman is a woman . I mean, that is literally inarguable. Scientific, scientific biology. So my point scientific biology. So my point with this, amy, which is i think which i think you might have emphasised, is if were classing that kind of language as a transphobic crime , then the transphobic hate crime, then the 11 increase in transphobic to i just dont think exists. No but i would say is things like what the Prime Minister said at conference supported by applauding and boldens, applauding crowd and boldens, many of them women , you said no. Many of them women, you said no. You said it was potentially against law. Equalities against the law. The equalities act says that its protected belief, a characteristic that if you are transitioning, you are the gender that you say you are, not necessarily the sex you were assigned at birth and rishi sunak has known this and people i okay, so answer this question then. Okay, so answer this question then. Was that transphobic . Then. Was that transphobic . No, i dont think that was transphobic. But i think it definitely emboldened transphobia and it definitely gave an invitation. It reflected gave an invitation. It reflected the view to transphobia. The view to transphobia. Majority of the lord bailey heres heres the deal. The good thing about these figures is that they are going down. The worrying thing about these that theyve these figures is that theyve taken much taken so much time, so much police to collate. Whats police time to collate. Whats shocking these figures is shocking about these figures is that if you Say Something to me, amy can report it as a hate crime, even if the recipient myself doesnt see it as a hate crime, thats where the problem lies. Because the problem here is is we then stray is the worry is we then stray into, you know, groupthink. We into, you know, groupthink. We then you know, you have the then say, you know, you have the wrong process. Its wrong thought process. Its people have made it quite clear wrong thought process. Its pethis have made it quite clear wrong thought process. Its pethis country ade it quite clear wrong thought process. Its pethis country theyt quite clear wrong thought process. Its pethis country they wante clear in this country they want the police the police to chase people down the road, down. Road, not chase them down. Twitter and core core of twitter and the core core of a free society is the ability to offend. Because if you cant offend. Because if you cant offend , who gets to decide offend, who gets to decide whats offensive or not. But i think this makes it even more impressive that the figures are going down because we live in a society now where everybodys by everybodys offended by everything and you call the police and the police take it super they say , oh, super serious when they say, oh, so and so was offended by hurty words record that and words and they record that and still, alison, still the numbers are going down. You know, i think what happens, patrick, is i think people get on we rub people think we get on we rub along very well. The surveys show british show the majority of british people to live next show the majority of british peopto to live next show the majority of british peopto someone to live next show the majority of british peopto someone from. Ive next show the majority of british peopto someone from ae next show the majority of british peopto someone from a different door to someone from a different ethnicity. Then theyre ethnicity. And then theyre heanng ethnicity. And then theyre hearing from the television, oh, were think were all hateful. I think people start thinking , hang on a people start thinking, hang on a minute, not. And actually, minute, were not. And actually, thatis minute, were not. And actually, that is what causes people to be cross they think who are you cross is they think who are you calling racist . When were actually getting along quite well people, sets well with people, it sets back if you were born in this country. I was born in this country, born in 71. And racism was way more prevalent then it is more prevalent then than it is now. Disrespectful to now. And its disrespectful to suggest whether racist, horrible country because weve made a lot of progress and theres lots of people whove had change people whove had to change their theres of their ways. Theres lots of people fight for people have had to fight for that change. They will be offended that people offended by the fact that people are we are not acknowledging that we are not acknowledging that we are and moving fonnard are not acknowledging that we are side. And moving fonnard are not acknowledging that we are i side. And moving fonnard are not acknowledging that we are i side. Domd moving fonnard are not acknowledging that we are i side. Do you noving fonnard are not acknowledging that we are i side. Do you thinkg fonnard i mean, do you think some people not saying i mean, do you think some pe0|necessarily, not saying i mean, do you think some pe0|necessarily, but not saying i mean, do you think some pe0|necessarily, but somesaying i mean, do you think some pe0|necessarily, but some people i mean, do you think some petyouressarily, but some people i mean, do you think some petyour side� ily, but some people i mean, do you think some petyour side of. But some people i mean, do you think some petyour side of the some people i mean, do you think some petyour side of the politicaleople on your side of the political spectrum be really spectrum will be really disappointed in these figures because them because it might even put them outi think that any hate crime i think that any hate crime is one too many, surely. And if we at, say, race, are we look at, say, race, there are still discrepancies that we look at, say, race, there are stilievidencediiscrepancies that we look at, say, race, there are stilievidenced by repancies that we look at, say, race, there are stilievidenced by statistics. That are evidenced by statistics. Black women are four times more likely to die childbirth. Likely to die in childbirth. Black men are double as likely to be unemployed in the uk there is problems racism. So is problems with racism. So i dont think we dont need to use these types of racism, racism and hate crime are two Different Things. So what amy, is just have doneis so what amy, is just have done is collate two issues and then and then to give validity to a point on a on a separate issue. Thats not but thats exactly what patrick just done in his monologue. Exactly what patrick just done in ibutnonologue. Exactly what patrick just done in ibut thats gue. Fair figures. But thats not fair figures. But thats not fair figures. Not thats thats thats not fair. Racism is one fair. You know, racism is one particular crimes particular thing. Hate crimes are other. You can have hate crimes things like nothing crimes with things like nothing to do with racism and what people have people on the left have regularly real regularly done is conflate real issues fake in to issues with fake issues in to order issue along. And order push that issue along. And i people to aware i think people need to be aware of lets talk about hate of that. Lets talk about hate crime context hate crime in the context of hate crime in the context of hate crime id the other crime. And id say the other side of that coin, were now making banter. Were now making discourse between people illegal. And that really needs to be looked at because that is the beginning of the end of free speech. Absolutely. Going the language speech. Absolutely. Of going the language speech. Absolutely. Of things1g the language speech. Absolutely. Of things there. The language speech. Absolutely. Of things there. And anguage side of things there. And theres even very, very concerning incidents , by the concerning incidents, by the way, people that appear to be way, of people that appear to be very even police what very willing to even police what you couldnt say in you could and couldnt say in your own home, i find your own home, which i find which astonishing. Thing which is astonishing. One thing i now, if i would wonder now, though, if we do move towards a Multicultural Society that is predominantly working and, you know, were all rubbing along rather nicely, is there any need going fonnard for things like positive , do think . I think that that is a real double edged sword. Again, you know, youve and again, you know, youve got the National Health service , for example, probably one of the most workforces in the most diverse workforces in the most diverse workforces in the world, let alone the country over 1. 5 million and now over 1. 5 million people. And now employing more diversity and equity officers when they should be spending that money on. Everybody that money spent everybody wants that money spent on line on nurses and on the front line on nurses and doctors. Think its become doctors. So i think its become an. An and think in an obsession. An and i think in lots cases its lots of cases now, its extremely counterproductive. Extremely counterproductive. Youve youve weve have had emails from people saying my emails from people saying in my hospital , if you were white and hospital, if you were white and male, you wouldnt be male, you wouldnt even be considered for a job that breeds unhappiness. Discontent. Unhappiness. Discontent. Amy, are we or are we not one of the best countries in the world to this world when it comes to this stuff . We pretty world when it comes to this stuff . But we pretty world when it comes to this stuff . But theres pretty world when it comes to this stuff . But theres always tty world when it comes to this stuff . But theres always room good, but theres always room for improvement. So let us not take our eye off the ball. You know what . I dont mind that attitude at i do quite that attitude at all. I do quite like because we should like it because we should look, we should always for we should always strive for perfection. But my beef really surely we surely is lord bailey is when we spin figures, figures like spin these figures, figures like these it deliberately these to make it deliberately over negative. Over negative. Doing it and youre doing it deliberately , over positive. Deliberately, over positive. Go to where kemi ill go to where Kemi Badenoch. When she said this is the best place in the world to live as a black person and she is correct. Nowhere else in the world having a debate world are they having a debate around , you know, can we around, you know, how can we progress our black progress in our black communities ways . Communities in equitable ways . We are wringing our hands and whilst hands, whilst were wringing our hands, we pay attention. We should also pay attention. The we are doing the fact that we are doing reasonably well. Of we reasonably well. Of course we could better , but we are could do better, but we are doing well. And if you compare us else, we are light us to anybody else, we are light years. Look america years ahead. We look at america as where were going. On race. I hope not. We are. Theyre completely different. Exactly. But the point, dont get yourself and think get ahead of yourself and think that in post racial that we live in a post Racial Society because dont. Society because we dont. Thats cant get and thats why we cant get overexcited. You why. We overexcited. I tell you why. We live a post Racial Society live in a post Racial Society because of on left. Because of people on the left. The keep people on the left keep talking about multiculturalism. Multiculturalism is part of the problem. What should be problem. What we should be looking multiracial looking at as a multiRacial Society , if you a society, if you have a Multicultural Society, youre going to have to rank people. Know youre to going you know what youre to going rank was rank honestly, seriously, was was david lammy. Actually, he was david lammy. Actually, he was about dont was talking about. I dont recognise what Suella Braverman is these is saying about about these issues multiculturalism and is saying about about these iss10fi multiculturalism and is saying about about these iss10f that multiculturalism and is saying about about these iss10f that stuff. Iculturalism and is saying about about these iss10f that stuff. Icultthenim and all of that stuff. But then would be the first to bang the drum when to issues in drum when it comes to issues in society. In society, society. Inequality in society, communities not doing well, living with each other as needing to do more with it. And i the reason people i thought the only reason people are coming out and saying this is has is because the conservative has said for is because the conservative has saiccompletely for is because the conservative has saiccompletely exposed for is because the conservative has saiccompletely exposed fbecause me completely exposed it because you it ways. You you cant have it both ways. You cant say that we are horrible and tories awful. But and the tories are awful. But then slate a tory mp or home secretary when they say multiculturalism failed, multiculturalism has failed, like just cant have it both like you just cant have it both ways like you just cant have it both waybut a situation but you have a situation where the left will say, oh, dreadful misogyny , sexism. There dreadful misogyny, sexism. There are communities , sadly in our are communities, sadly in our country where young girls and women prevented by men from women are prevented by men from fully partying , hating in fully partying, hating in education, further education. And that is a fact. And the left keep very quiet about that, patrick, dont they . Because it doesnt suit the agenda. Okay. All right. There we go. But i will say, as amy rightly says, we still have work to do. We shouldnt on our we shouldnt rest on our laurels. Think we laurels. But i do think we should good about laurels. But i do think we sho positives good about laurels. But i do think we sho positives well. Good about laurels. But i do think we sho positives well. Gooctoyout the positives as well. Still to come, to come, rishi sunak plan to permanently cigarettes permanently stub out cigarettes was as illiberal and was slammed as illiberal and anti conservative by some within the party. But its one of a number of Different Things going on. Banning things we need to ban. We dont like it, ban it, ban. We dont like it, ban it, ban it. Why why . Just stop live and live. And tonight am and let live. And tonight i am joined by journalist kara joined by top journalist kara kennedy, will be on to kennedy, who will be on to explain why russias prohibition plan is facing such a backlash. But up next in the clash , but up next in the clash, Caroline Lucas has accused the tories of a dishonesty epidemic. But should it really be a criminal offence for politicians to lie . I mean, can it really be seriously, how do you how do you enforce that . I mean, i did enjoy an old show that involved a Lie Detector Test and a dna test, but surely we cant bring that back. The extreme that back. Thats the extreme action. Wont take action. Some mps wont take in a nile and Jenny Barnett Nile Gardiner and Jenny Barnett will have their say and that is coming Patrick Christys weekdays from three on. News from three on. News stay locked and loaded because im whittaker and Kelvin Mackenzie are standing by but now its time for the clash. So now its time for the clash. So green mp Caroline Lucas has claimed that the conservative party is infected by a dishonesty epidemic after accusations that ministers lied dunng accusations that ministers lied during Conference Speeches and interviews. Energy secretary interviews. Energy secretary Claire Coutinho , who claimed Claire Coutinho, who claimed that labour is relaxed about taxing meat, mark harpers speech railing against 50 minute cities theyve been singled out for criticism by the left. Lucas told sky news. If the Prime Minister isnt acquainted with the seven nolan principles of pubuc the seven nolan principles of public life, grief covered day off anyway, including that holders of Public Office should be truthful , then he shouldnt be truthful, then he shouldnt be truthful, then he shouldnt be in public life at all. Lucas is one of several mps who support a bill that would make it a criminal offence for politicians to deliberately lie. But what do you think . Should it be a criminal offence for politicians to deliberate fully lie now to debate this, i am joined by social commentator and actress, the wonderful Jenny Barnett and former aide to margaret thatcher, niall garner. Thank you very much both of you. Its always ladies first. So, jenny, i will start with you. Should they be jailed for lying . Should they be jailed for lying . Should they be prosecuted for lying . Mp wouldnt have any left i you said it. You said it. I think that given that they represent us as a nation , they represent us as a nation, they are our elected reps incentives. If they lie , it trickles down. We dont know what the truth is. We watch it in america. We see trump decrying anything thats truthful , calling it fake thats truthful, calling it fake news, and its happening over here. No, were not going to ban meat. No, we dont want seven dustbins for every people. No, dustbins for every people. No, we dont want this and that. If they lie, what happens to the rest corrupts absolute power corrupts absolutely. Corrupts absolutely. Okay. I mean, niall, corrupts absolutely. Okay. I mean, niall , weve okay. I mean, niall, weve seen this ridiculous farcical situation of time and taxpayers money being wasted dragging bofis money being wasted dragging Boris Johnson through a kangaroo court. Were going to have that court. Were going to have that every week in this situation, arent we . Yeah, patrick, thanks for having me on the show today. And certainly my view is that the calls from Caroline Lucas to make lying a criminal offence by mps , i mean, this is absolutely mps, i mean, this is absolutely ridiculous. After all the left i ridiculous. After all the left i think, lie all the time. You look at project fear, the endless lies about the supposed impact out of brexit coming from left wing politicians. And so theres a huge amount of hypocnsy theres a huge amount of hypocrisy that comes from the left when they call for this. Also, its very onnell in in my view , to call for investigation view, to call for investigation into to what mps are saying, whether or not its the truth , whether or not its the truth, who decides that and so i do think that this is this is a ludicrous call from the left who are, of course, as guilty as anyone of making endless lies. And we saw that especially dunng and we saw that especially during the Brexit Campaign with project fear. I mean, jenny, the thing is, with stuff like this , thing is, with stuff like this, it could backfire quite easily where every single politician is done for lying because they havent stuck to a manifesto pledge. Pledge. Listen, i would just like to go back, to neil, you, talking about the 23rd when we voted to leave on the side of a bus, it said £350 million. That was taken every week was going to go into the nhs. That was a lie. And i think whether youre left or whether youre right, we the populists that vote them to in represent us, have to be told the truth. Othennise were swimming around in a sea of deceit and we dont know whats going on. I can understand exactly what youre saying, but i will. Ill say, should the greens, especially not be worried what they wish for here . Because theres misinformation theres a lot of misinformation flying around about the need , flying around about the need, the urgent pressing need for net zero, a lot of climate alarmism taking place there. And i do worry that caroline might find herself , frankly, in a worry that caroline might find herself, frankly, in a prison cell. Cell. Yeah, i think that all of these claims from the left about you know, the climate alarmism and so on, and underestimating, for example, the costs of net zero. I mean, its, its a disgrace. I think the propaganda coming from from the left and outright lies and disinformation coming from the left on so many fronts, the reality is that net zero will be vastly expensive and it could well bankrupt actually the british british economy. But youre not going to hear that from the green party or for the lefties , those who or for the lefties, those who are now claiming that the conservatives are lying on various various fronts. So the hypocnsy various various fronts. So the hypocrisy here is absolutely, absolutely staggering. I have to say, jenny, huge hypocrisy. Okay. Now we had a Prime Minister. We had a Prime Minister. We had a Prime Minister that when he opened his mouth , he just spoke untruths. Mouth, he just spoke untruths. Now, am i of the fool that i am believed him until it was proven that he was lying. Now youre not allowed to call anybody a liar in government. What can we do . Who do we turn to . Who is telling the truth . Theres your truth. Theres my about jenny. Who are you referencing . And what. What evidence do you know, mr Boris Johnson, who runs away . Say there is. Theres the boy who feeds him. Ill tell you what is interesting with that, jenny, because right. It is obviously not at a unusual view amongst the public. Maybe not with a lot of gb news viewers, etcetera. Its not an unusual view amongst the public that Boris Johnson was lying a bit about partygate or all of that stuff. Right. But when it came down, nile to, you know, some messages and to whether or not hed caught a glimpse out of his eye about whether or not hed seen a party and going upstairs and what they did for in was what they had to decide based on their own merit, what he thought was going on in his own mind at that time, and that is so subjective. Do i really want mps to be subjected to the political views of anybody at any moment in time . So i think you would really thinking this and therefore youll relire and youre face prosecution youre going to face prosecution on that is open to all sorts of problems. Yeah great point, sir. Patrick, i do think the treatment of Boris Johnson was an absolute disgrace. Democratically elected Prime Minister removed by a kangaroo court, in effect. And minister removed by a kangaroo court, in effect. And i do i do think the treatment of boris was absolutely shameful. And i think absolutely shameful. And i think it was a dark day in british history here. And i think the points you make are absolutely, absolutely right. Jenny, weve seen weve seen some examples , one against one some examples, one against one very egregious example, by the way, against nigel farage of pete mp standing up in parliament and using parliamentary privilege to perpetuate what actually turned out be a completely false out to be a completely false conspiracy theories that some other people ended up paying quite of for, money quite a lot of for, money actually. So it its not really just a right left issue. Just a right or a left issue. This really think there this really i do think there appears yeah, there appears to be that were going to be an idea that were going to do this because we stop the do this because then we stop the tory i think, tory liars. But then i think, well just well all right, but theres just as well, you as many a year as well, you know, i think that if somebody decides become a politician , decides to become a politician, then we go we see secretly vote in a box in a ballot and we ask somebody to be our mouthpiece. Somebody to be our mouthpiece. Back in greece, when they decided to do it for the populace, we should be doing it now. What strikes me is that our political system is muddied and sullied and none of us trust. And when were looking at the further generation, the next generation coming down the line , i mean, ive had my day , who , i mean, ive had my day, who do they listen to . Who tells do they listen to . Who tells them the truth . What is the them the truth . What is the truth . Whether its on television, whether its on the radio, people. Sometimes it worries me , jenny. Worries me, jenny. Sometimes people dont want to hear the truth. Jenny sometimes people dont want to hear truth. If we honestly hear the truth. If we honestly live world now where, you live in a world now where, you know, jennys taylor is not enough define what sex you enough to define what sex you are, we live arguably in a post truth era, niall. I mean, who defines truth . Defines the truth . Yeah, thats thats thats a good point here. And i have to you know, i have to say here that, you know, these these calls from the left to define the truth are are sinister and nefarious and dangerous, actually. And its designed to inhibit also think freedom of speech and we cannot go down that path where you have left wing politicians defining what they believe is , listen, i will they believe is, listen, i will quote jesus christ. Quote jesus christ. And he said , strap yourselves and he said, strap yourselves in, lads. There we go. There we go. Right self be true. Listen unto thy self be true. We have unto thy self be true. We have to have a conscience. And people to have a conscience. And people who listen to politic actions have to trust whats coming out of their mouth. And i dont of their mouth. And i dont write jenny do you think that left wing politicians are inherently more truthful than right wing politicians , as jenny right wing politicians, as jenny thats a great question and i cant answer that. I only know a few that are on the very far left, and i became what i became because they told me a truth. When wedgie benn stood up and did what he did and back in the day when i was growing up, i now get confused , used when people get confused, used when people are protecting themselves and protecting positions that dont help anybody. Okay , now same question to okay, now same question to you, patrick. Yeah yeah. Patrick quick, quick point about that. So im actually here in washington dc at the moment. Course we have the biden presidency office. Joe biden presidency in office. Joe biden is a left wing politician, the most powerful left wing leader in the world. He lies all the time. He lies about his own past, his own record and i think, you know, thats thats clear proof. Frankly, the left wing politicians dont necessarily tell the truth and just look at how biden is running, you know, running, ruining and destroying the United States and the endless lies that he tells. Lies that he tells. And trump isnt trump is a truth teller. Is he . Truth teller. Is he . Okay . Ill tell you what, trumps not in power at the moment. Joe bidens running the country. And you look at the full time, im blowing the full time whistle. Both of you, thank you very, much. That is why very, very much. That is why we call clash. Got call it the clash. People got good stuff. Okay, fantastic. Good stuff. Okay, fantastic. Now, was a wonderful social now, that was a wonderful social commentator and actress Jenny Barnett and former aide to margaret thatcher, gardiner margaret thatcher, Nile Gardiner have a that. So there we have a bit of that. So there we go. I believe that weve been asking some of you. We have indeed. And some you have indeed. And some of you have been ben been reaching out. Ben on twitter if it was twitter says this if it was illegal mps to lie, then all illegal for mps to lie, then all our tails would be ovennhelmed. None our politicians can be none of our politicians can be trusted. Its bleak. But possibly accurate. David on twitter says, sadly, this would only take make the state of politics worse. Politicians would only say things so vague that nobody could ever accuse them of anything illegal. You know what, david . I agree with you. And i actually really do you. And i actually really do think that massively increased media scrutiny whilst in the round a good thing in politics, because you hold people to account, etcetera. I mean i make account, etcetera. I mean i make a living off it so great but i think its made politicians worse. I think its made people more afraid to go into politics. Worse. I think its made people nthinkfraid to go into politics. Worse. I think its made people nthink itsi to go into politics. Worse. I think its made people nthink its also 10 into politics. Worse. I think its made people nthink its also meant politics. Worse. I think its made people nthink its also meant thatics. Worse. I think its made people nthink its also meant that you i think its also meant that you get these sound bites, dont you . Brexit means brexit. What that by definition means nothing. You just speak to you in slogans because theyre too afraid of saying anything that people might jump on. So yeah, people mightjump on. So yeah, no, i agree with you now, starmer started stuff starmer has started doing stuff like that already, hasnt he . But rory on twitter says manifestos legally manifestos should be legally binding. Contracts with the british people. And if politicians renege on their pledges, they should be taken to court. Like all other fraudsters. I suppose the argument against that, not that i disagree with you, rory, but i suppose the argument against that would be theyre taken to court the next election. That would be theyre taken to court in the next election. That would be theyre taken to court in practise, election. That would be theyre taken to court in practise, thatsm. That would be theyre taken to court in practise, thats not well, in practise, thats not really because well, in practise, thats not really just because well, in practise, thats not really just lie because well, in practise, thats not really just lie again,wecause well, in practise, thats not really just lie again, wonte theyll just lie again, wont they . Your verdict is in. They . But your verdict is in. 83 of you agree that it should be offence for be a criminal offence for politicians lie. I this politicians to lie. I love this. 17 of you say that it shouldnt look fine. 83 of you. Thatis shouldnt look fine. 83 of you. That is remarkable. But we will that is remarkable. But we will be here all day. I long i long for a future. You know what i would like and ive pitched this idea. Want anyone to idea. I dont want anyone to nick it. Now, where i interview politicians are strapped politicians who are strapped to a i ask a Lie Detector Test and i ask them a whole host questions them a whole host of questions that would rate coming up. Rishi that would rate coming up. Rishi sunak has sealed a new deal with the eus Border Agency. Id the eus Border Agency. Id start by asking him if he thinks this will work, but there we go. Hes going to get tough on illegal can we illegal migration. But can we really on the support really count on the support of our european neighbours do we our european neighbours or do we need to take tougher action . You decide. Former conservative minister Ann Widdecombe weighs in later tonight. But next, rishi described his plan to permanently out cigarettes permanently stub out cigarettes as the right thing for our kids. But kara kennedy joins me to explain why rishis plan is illiberal and anti conservative. But its not just about the six statues, cars , adverts that statues, cars, adverts that involve junk food, which includes cheese. Theyre all getting banned. Why are we banning things . Leave us thursdays from six till 930. And thursdays from six till 930. And widdicombes coming up very soon. But after announcing his plan to phase out the sale of cigarettes yesterday, rishi sunakis cigarettes yesterday, rishi sunak is facing a furious backlash. Stay tuned because backlash. Stay tuned because this is not just about smokers, okay . This is about authoritarianism with campaigners slamming the policy as illiberal , anti conservative as illiberal, anti conservative amid warnings that it could cost the economy a whopping £10 billion. Former Prime Minister liz truss looks set to vote against the smoking ban when it reaches parliament. By the way, its also just a ridiculous thing to do politically because there are no votes in this, no one i know, i dare say no one that i know, i dare say no one that i know, i dare say no one you is going to one that you know, is going to walk polling in the walk into a polling booth in the next election and with everything on Everything Else thats going on in , go, im going Everything Else thats going on in vote , go, im going Everything Else thats going on in vote for , go, im going Everything Else thats going on in vote for the , go, im going Everything Else thats going on in vote for the pie. , im going Everything Else thats going on in vote for the pie. Its1 going Everything Else thats going on in vote for the pie. Its going; to vote for the pie. Its going to vote for the pie. Its going to ban smoking. No, why . But to ban smoking. No, why . But despite the growing rebellion, rishi sunak was out defending his policy on bbcs today programme. This morning. Listen theres no safe level of smoking. Cant be part of smoking. Cant be part of a balanced diet. Its also balanced diet. Its also obviously highly addictive and it is responsible for1 in 4 cancer deaths in our country. It kills 64,000 people a year. Its the single biggest preventable cause of death , disability and cause of death, disability and illness that we see. And it puts monumental pressure on the nhs. Monumental pressure on the nhs. Right. Well, journalist and writer kyra kennedy joins me now. Kyra, look, its sunak smoking ban anti conservative. Hes truss, right to vote against it. Should we just stop banning things . Things . Yeah, i mean, im going to Say Something that i dont often say, but liz truss is absolutely right. Im confused about who this policy is, even for. Its definitely not for kids because kids arent smoking. Were down to about 3 compared to 35 a few decades ago. And any dyed in the wool conservative would and does believe that this is a profoundly unconservative thing to legislate against. Okay. And we will be confronted by the completely farcical situation in a few years time of a 40 year old man begging a 41 year old man outside a spar in basingstoke to go in and buy him a pack of marlboro gold. I mean, thats marlboro gold. I mean, thats clown world. Yeah. I mean, and this isnt yeah. I mean, and this isnt even about children because these 14 year olds, which is who it will affect, will become fully grown adults. Like you just said, middle aged people and people and still and then old people and still wont have the autonomy to decide what would like to decide what they would like to do bodies. It do with their own bodies. It makes me laugh that this is the bill that the Prime Minister is willing on when young willing to die on when young people are crying out for government with Government Intervention with things of things like housing, cost of living. And and is and living. And so and this is and this is the issue that rishi is going to push look so true, right . So we are being told now and by the way, can i just say, i know smoking is bad. I know that it does clog up the nhs. There are a lot of other things that clog up the nhs by the way, as well. So its not just smoking. So all this. Not so i get all of this. Im not advising right, i need so i get all of this. Im not adstopg right, i need so i get all of this. Im not ad stop myself. Right, i need so i get all of this. Im not ad stop myself. I ght, i need so i get all of this. Im not ad stop myself. I know need so i get all of this. Im not ad stop myself. I know this,i so i get all of this. Im not ad stop myself. I know this, but to stop myself. I know this, but ijust to stop myself. I know this, but i just tried to smoke on tv right now and was told that i couldnt do it. So dont do it. So dont do it. No, absolutely. Absolutely. No, absolutely. Absolutely. Half of the ideas i have for shows like this are against the law. But but but you cant possibly tell me that a six year old is able to make a decision about what gender they are. Right. And that an 18 year old is not capable of making a decision to walk into a corner shop, look at a blank packet of cigarettes apart from a picture on it. Thats got a child lung and decide that they want to have that. We cant have it both ways. Ways. Yeah, i mean, this is insane. An overreach. And i also question why smoking is the is the thing to get involved in when nobody really even smokes anymore. No. There are 250,000 anymore. No. There are 250,000 people on our streets taking heroin , 1. 5 people on our streets taking heroin ,1. 5 million smoking heroin, 1. 5 million smoking cannabis every day and a social cigarette is the thing that rishi sunak wants to focus his campaign on. Look, you know, weve weve banned things already. Yeah, weve banned knife crime. Okay weve banned illegal immigration. Yeah. How were we doing with those things . Not very well. I wonder whether or not the public would rather we focussed on them. Yeah , exactly. And any time yeah, exactly. And any time you ban anything, all you do is create an underground market for the exact thing you ban anyway. I mean, the prohibition of, of drinking and smoking is going to end in obviously a black market for smoking and drinking and all it takes in this case is for a younger person to ask somebody whos slightly older to go into the shop for them. Yeah, look, i dont think its any wonder why we are creating and i think have created a generation of helpless, offended idiots helpless, easily offended idiots because you look at this and you 9 because you look at this and you go, well, they have to have that choice removed from them because they cant be trusted. And then we why we end with 17 we wonder why we end up with 17 and 18 year olds just wandering around ah , someone needs and 18 year olds just wandering ar help ah , someone needs and 18 year olds just wandering ar help me. Ah , someone needs and 18 year olds just wandering ar help me. I ah , someone needs and 18 year olds just wandering ar help me. I cant someone needs and 18 year olds just wandering ar help me. I cant looklone needs and 18 year olds just wandering ar help me. I cant look ate needs to help me. I cant look at this. Offended. I cant this. Im so offended. I cant see, you know, i cant see a picture of burger picture of a burger on the London Underground i London Underground because if i do, ill deliberately give myself diabetes. Its myself diabetes. You know, its bonkers. Myself diabetes. You know, its bonkers but cara, thank you very people. But cara, thank you very much. And well done for not smoking television smoking on National Television because apparently will be because that apparently will be the the world. Kyra. The end of the world. Kyra. Kennedy the wonderful kennedy there, the wonderful one. Now, coming up, culture secretary lucy frazer wants to save our statues and take on those who want to erase our history. But with a crisis, hit nhs trust , offering slavery nhs trust, offering slavery reparations , are we too obsessed reparations, are we too obsessed with apologising for our past to build a Brighter Future . My panel will debate that a little bit later on. But right now. Well, in just a sec, rishi sunak has sealed a new deal with the eus Border Agency to get tough on illegal migration. But is he right to trust our european nations . Will it make a blind bit of difference . Why wont he just turn the boats back . Do we need to take serious action . Former conservative minister Ann Widdecombe weighs in. And that is n ext next fleet street legend Kelvin Mackenzie is coming up later tonight. But mackenzie is coming up later tonight. But first, im joined by former conservative minister Ann Widdecombe and rishi sunak attended an eu summit in granada today to demand europe leaders follow britains tough action on illegal migration. The Prime Minister will highlight to the European Political Community his efforts to crack down on small boat crossings in the english channel. But theres already been tensions between those attending because the spanish hosts to put migration on hosts refuse to put migration on the official agenda for the meeting. Which sums it up, meeting. Which sums it up, doesnt it . Sums it up. Oh, great. Weve gone to spain. Great. Weve gone to spain. Weve some cooperation weve got some eu cooperation with a group of people who didnt want to talk about in with a group of people who didrfirstant to talk about in with a group of people who didrfirst place. Talk about in with a group of people who didrfirst place. And about in with a group of people who didrfirst place. And joins in with a group of people who didrfirst place. And joins me1 the first place. And joins me now. The support now. Can we count on the support of neighbours. And of our european neighbours. And well, of course we cant and weve already had solid proof of that. We had it with france. We had it with france. I mean, we have given france millions. Millions. And what do they do . And what do they do . And what do they do . Absolutely nothing. Absolutely nothing. And, you know, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Expecting a different result. And the reason that rishi sunak does this and is relying on the eu to sort out britains problems is because he has no solution. He has done absolutely nothing. Now he and suella have talked a great deal. Theyve talked a great deal. Theyve talked a great deal. Theyve talked about what theyre to going do. I mean, support rwanda, but you know, the Prime Minister doesnt seem to have any means of speeding that up. Meanwhile they havent done what they should have done , which is they should have done, which is to get the Asylum Seekers out of hotels and into secure accommodation. Havent done that. They havent done any of the deterrent things which would have actually made people less likely to want to come here. Theyve done none of them, okay . I mean , look, it obviously i mean, look, it obviously say weve tried. I think boat say weve tried. I think boat crossings are 20. I know a crossings are down 20. I know a lot say thats down to lot of people say thats down to the weather. Well have to the weather. So well have to wait crucially, if wait and see. But crucially, if you stop you stand on a ticket of stop the boats and there are still boats coming, thats a problem. And theyre talking about working with frontex, which is actually really what labour wants as well. So i think wants to do as well. So i think he the wind of their he sucked the wind out of their sails a little bit of sails a little bit ahead of their conference. Their labour party conference. But , anne, you want but forgive me, anne, you want to work with organisation to to work with an organisation to help intelligence. They help share intelligence. They arent cracking down human arent cracking down on human traffickers. So whats traffickers either. So whats going change . Going to change . Nothing. Absolutely nothing is going to change. And to suggest that hes taken the wind out of starmers sails, well , out of starmers sails, well, frankly, no, because the public wont be any more impressed by starmer talking about relying on france and cooperation with the eu than they are with rishi doing it. I dont know why he is wasting his time. He should be doing one thing and he should be saying, how do we deter people from coming . And the only way youre going to do that is through a combination of automatic detention , an offshore automatic detention, an offshore processing and the removal of the ability to claim asylum. If you become illegally. Or you could also be honest about something , which is that about something, which is that if you do come to this country and you do have a procession of lawyers who are willing to , in lawyers who are willing to, in some cases lie about the calibre of your asylum claim and we do find it difficult to deport you. Once you get accepted, youll have 28 days to leave this hotel and then you will be homeless because we have homes. Because we dont have any homes. So you want live the so if you want to live on the streets britain , then come. Streets of britain, then come. But you dont, maybe france but if you dont, maybe france starts to look all right again. Am i dont actually think that that would work. I mean , i think they would i mean, i think they would find ways around that. I mean, after all, how is it that they come here and they disappear when to be when their claim is about to be refused , but they manage keep refused, but they manage to keep themselves. Manage work. Refused, but they manage to keep them go ves. Manage work. Refused, but they manage to keep them go into manage work. Refused, but they manage to keep them go into the manage work. Refused, but they manage to keep them go into the underground vork. They go into the underground economy. That that economy. I dont think that that is the solution. I think the is the solution. I think the solution is deter to deter them from coming in the first place. And the other solution of course, is to make some effort to actually turn back the boats , which is what australia we dont do that, but it takes it takes someone whos very brave and because you know , look, and because you know, look, youre one death away from all of the headlines, all of the headunes of the headlines, all of the headlines being, you know, youre a murderer and youre this , that and the other. This, that and the other. And again, you know, that doesnt carry much favour with me. I dont want to see anyone die in the channel. Of course not. But you to think, not. But then you have to think, well, the murderers for well, are we the murderers for turning if turning the boats back . If somebody to somebody does happen to unfortunately die or is that the human traffickers . Is that the people willingly gone people whove willingly gone across lane across the busiest shipping lane in world . So an unpalatable in the world . So an unpalatable thing politician thing to say, but no politician wants to be the person who is accused killing people in the accused of killing people in the channel accused of killing people in the channel, they . Accused of killing people in the chaand , they . Accused of killing people in the chaand , would accused of killing people in the chaand, would i. But thats and nor would i. But thats not what im saying. Im not saying that the navy you saying that the navy should, you know, force the boats back and nudge back into french nudge them back into french waters. Im saying that they should do what they would do with boat illegally with any other boat illegally entering our waters, which is to stop them, them round and stop them, turn them round and back. Okay thats the thing. Ive just about got time. Just about got time for another little one with you. Okay so the governor the bank england little one with you. Okay so the gowchampioned3ank england little one with you. Okay so the gowchampioned3aniopportunities has championed the opportunities created by brexit, saying it has protected britain from Global Economic headwinds. Andrew bailey suggested britain has fought off pretty dire warnings from economists and so called experts after leaving the european union. So does this prove that those doom mongering remainer economists and so called experts were wrong at. Oh, yes. And Andrew Bailey oh, yes. And Andrew Bailey was pretty doom mongering himself. You know, hes never been a great proponent of brexit. So if hes saying that its opened up opportunities going to be very difficult for the miseries to go on saying that we should rejoin and we should abandon it, it has been limited success because it hasnt been properly embraced and dealt with. But if we take and dealt with. But if we take those advantages and if we trust people like bailey , if we take people like bailey, if we take those advantages , then yes, you those advantages, then yes, you know, we have a huge future. I know, we have a huge future. I thought , know, we have a huge future. I thought, why . Why we why weve never sought competitive advantage. Anneliese competitive advantage. Anneliese is the thing. And the reason im cutting across you, im very sorry is because we are bang out of a wonderful and of time. Its a wonderful and welcome their former government minister now coming up. Coming up. Coming up, ex england manager kevin keegan has sparked outrage after saying that he doesnt like female pundit. Its talking about the mens game. Is talking about the mens game. Is he wrong or is he saying what most blokes are thinking and are you wrong if you want football, male football to be a space for men . Englands most capped male men . Englands most capped male footballer , Peter Shilton, takes footballer, Peter Shilton, takes on lionesses legend faye white. Thats later. Thats going to be massive. But next, culture secretary lucy frazer has vowed to save our statues and stand up to save our statues and stand up to those who want to erase our history. But a crisis at nhs history. But as a crisis at nhs trust offers slavery, rapper asians, are we too obsessed with apologising for our past to actually deal with the problems that weve got right right now . I certainly think so. That weve got right right now . I certainly think so. Ill be going to my panel and that debate is next. Hello again. Its Aidan Mcgivern here from the met office for the gb news forecast. Fine. In the far south over the next 24 hours, a different story elsewhere. There will be cloud. There will be outbreaks of rain as well. Not everywhere the as well. Not everywhere all the time, some significant rain time, but some significant rain could build up in places by the weekend. At the weekend. Low pressure at the moment to the northwest of scotland. A number of trailing weather fronts bringing lot weather fronts bringing a lot of cloud for rest of cloud to the uk for the rest of thursday and into friday. Those outbreaks rain continuing outbreaks of rain continuing over into the over parts of wales into the midlands, england , midlands, Northern England, Northern Ireland, southern scotland. Initial band of rain scotland. Initial band of rain clearing far north of clearing from the far north of scotland, away by a scotland, pushed away by a strong and its going to strong wind. And its going to be a warm night everywhere with that wind and the cloud temperatures in many places not falling much below 15 degrees. Then we start off friday with those cloudy conditions, the breezy conditions as well. Breezy conditions as well. Plenty of brightness actually, for central and northern scotland and much better day compared thursday and compared with thursday and certainly saturday. But for much of Northern Ireland into southern scotland later as well as Northern England , rain will as Northern England, rain will persist through the day. To persist through the day. Its to the south where were going to see warmth and see the warmth building and increasingly high temperatures through weekend are through the weekend are expected. But for scotland, certainly its going to be a wet start to the weekend. That rain really building up through saturday in the first part of sunday. Western parts of scotland at risk of seeing 150mm of rainfall. A very different story for the rest of the uk and well. Welcome along. Wonderful people. Its 10 00. Welcome along. Wonderful people. Its10 00. Im Patrick Christys and this is gb news tonight. Now culture secretary lucy pledged save lucy frazer has pledged to save our stand to our statues and stand up to those want to erase our those who want to erase our history. Crisis hit, history. But as the crisis hit, nhs slavery nhs trust offers slavery reparations. To we obsessed reparations. Are to we obsessed with apologising for our past to build a Brighter Future . I think its absolutely bonkers. My panel debate that next. And tonight, im joined by the box office, Allison Pearson, the fabulous sean bailey and the fantastic amy nicole turner. And that , my fantastic amy nicole turner. And that, my friends, is lord bailey to you. Plus, england football to you. Plus, england football legends Peter Shilton and faye white. Go head to head after Kevin Keegans controversial admission that he doesnt like listening to ladies talking about the mens game. Is he about the mens game. Is he plain wrong or actually is he just saying what most men think they tackle that head on . They will tackle that head on . And Kelvin Mackenzie , hes and Kelvin Mackenzie, hes uncancelled. Thats later on in the show. Tomorrows front pages are mere moments away. Ive had are mere moments away. Ive had a sneaky peek and as ever, theres some absolute gold on theres some absolute gold on the page. But first its the front page. But first its your headlines polly your headlines with polly middlehurst. Middlehurst. Patrick thank you and good evening to you. Well, our top story tonight is a man who broke into Windsor Castle armed with a loaded crossbow with the intent of killing the late queen has been sentenced to nine years in jail for the crime of treason. Jaswant singh chail wandered around inside the grounds for two hours on Christmas Day, 2021, while the late queen was in residence. Well, the old bailey heard today hed been encouraged by an Artificial Intelligence virtual girlfriend with which hed exchanged thousands of messages. The judge said chail was non psychotic and therefore culpable when he devised his plot but had lost touch with reality and become psychotic by the time he carried it out. The coach driver in the it out. The coach driver in the wirral bus crash has been described as having suffered an event at the wheel before the incident , which killed both him incident, which killed both him and a 15 year old girl. A Coroners Court in liverpool has heard today cctv footage from inside. The coach showed the dnven inside. The coach showed the driver, david shrimpton, suddenly slumped to the left while he was driving. The coach then overturned and 54 people on then overturned and 54 people on the bus were taken from the bus on the m 53 last friday, sir keir starmer has revealed an extra 700,000 urgent dental appointments would be introduced under a Labour Government in plans to improve the nations oral health. The party would also introduce supervised tooth brushing in schools across england in order to tackle preventable tooth decay in children. People in most need of treatment would be prioritised under proposals aimed at rescuing nhs dentistry. The rescuing nhs dentistry. The plans would be financed , labour plans would be financed, labour says, by using £111 million a year from abolishing non domiciled tax status. Now news domiciled tax status. Now news from overseas. We understand at least 51 people have died after a Russian Missile hit a cafe in North Eastern ukraine. Its reported the victims were attending a funeral. Ukrainian attending a funeral. Ukrainian officials called it a heinous crime. The attack was the deadliest in kharkiv since the start of the war, and the Prime Minister has met with the ukrainian president , Volodymyr Zelenskyy saying europe must face down the threat from russia. Rishi sunak is in spain for the European Political Community summit. The Prime Minister condemned todays attack and reiterated the uk support for ukraine in the ongoing war. And lastly, the prince of wales has joined some of englands world cup winning Wheelchair Rugby League squad today she got stuck in as well at the event in hull, where she actually sat in a wheelchair and gave the game a go. Kate, whos gave the game a go. Kate, whos patron of the rugby football league, is there to help promote inclusivity in the sport, much to the delight of those taking part today. Youre all with gb part today. Youre all with gb news across the uk on tv, in your car, on Digital Radio and on your Smart Speaker by saying play gb news this is britains news channel. News channel. Its tomorrows news tonight. Now in our mediabuzz. Its tomorrows news tonight. Now in our mediabuzz. Lets kick now in our mediabuzz. Lets kick off with the very first look at the front pages. Hot off the press so the metro leads with the trial of Ian Fitzgibbon who has pleaded not guilty to the murder of ashley dale. The paper says that the 28 year old was gunned down in her own home because her boyfriend humiliated a rival gang member at glastonbury. Gosh okay, so there we go. My panel are back with me now, Daily Telegraph columnist Allison Pearson. Weve got conservative peer lord shaun bailey and author and broadcaster amy nicholl. Turner, broadcaster amy nicholl. Turner, lets get stuck into this debate. I think its going to be fireworks here because the culture secretary, lucy frazer, has been talking tough on those who our history by who want to erase our history by publishing new and publishing new retain and explain guidance to protect controversial historical statues phrases , common sense approach phrases, common sense approach to britains history couldnt be more timely, as it was revealed yesterday that Scottish Health board nhs lothian will make reparations to jamaica and africa to, quote, make amends for its slavery links. Well start with you, alison, on this. Are we too obsessed with apologising for our past to build a Brighter Future . Im sure that the voters of lothian will be delighted that their money, their taxpayers money is being spent in reparations. When they get reparations. When they cant get a appointment. So that a doctors appointment. So that just you how absolutely just shows you how absolutely mad disproportionate is mad and disproportionate that is. I agree with lucy frazer. I think is a very good think this is a very good initiative, she says its infantile to remove memorials and statues issues, which of course are complex. I mean, how course are complex. I mean, how will people look . Patrick in 100 years at us . Im sure therell be things theyll say. Imagine incredibly favourably. Yeah well, maybe statues of me, maybe , maybe at you. But, you know, theyll maybe think the rest of us. So. So its arrogant to judge the past like that. I its arrogant to judge the past like that. I think this retain and of statues youve and explain of statues if youve got controversial statue, got a controversial statue, explain this person. Can i ask a question, though . Because surely if you explain a lot of statues, you wouldnt want to retain one. Well, it depends what you know. I dont disagree with that. I dont disagree with that. I dont disagree with that. But this is this is where we are. So it depends what you choose little plaque to choose on a little plaque to say about churchill. Right. Do about churchill. Right. So do you go off on the you go do you go off on the bengal famine, which is debateable , or do you go debateable anyway, or do you go off on winning war ii . Off on winning world war ii . Thing is, with a but but the thing is, with a lot of these so say with the edward statue, i think Edward Colston statue, i think a lot didnt lot of people in bristol didnt quite the role that quite understand the role that he played in the slave trade until it explained. And then until it was explained. And then they no longer wanted to retain because are innately because the statues are innately celebratory. Right no, theyre not celebratory. No, theyre not celebratory. Theyre part of our history that has happened. He was also a benefactor , just like with cecil benefactor, just like with cecil rhodes in oxford. That statue is very contested. Cecil rhodes. Rhodes scholarships include bringing amazing people across the world to our country, including bill clinton. Its a mixed picture. You cantjust mixed picture. You cant just say were abolishing our history and just going to have statues of really nice people going to end up with edward. No, no. I want to say im sean. But but the real thing is ask yourself why they want to eliminate these what eliminate these statues, what they the they want to do is change the nature the country. Your nature of the country. Your history it says history is important. It says who nobody who you are. Nobody ever said that history is that britains history is perfect. But what people said was britains history something to be proud and when to be proud of. And when somebody you how horrific somebody tells you how horrific our say, somebody tells you how horrific our lets say, somebody tells you how horrific our lets compare say, somebody tells you how horrific our lets compare it;ay, somebody tells you how horrific our lets compare it to, somebody tells you how horrific our lets compare it to every well, lets compare it to every body elses, because there no body elses, because there is no nafion body elses, because there is no nation on planet, no nation nation on the planet, no nation that a spotless history and that has a spotless history and if you take slavery, for instance, i have a very instance, which i have a very vested interest in, theres more slavery now than theres ever been. Slavery now than theres ever been. When talk about been. And when people talk about slavery, britain was part slavery, yes, britain was part of industrialising australia , of industrialising australia, but part of stopping but it was also part of stopping slavery. When this when this slavery. So when this when this nhs trust talks paying nhs trust talks about paying reparations, theres two things i think they should bear in mind. Should stop. A the government should stop them it because them from doing it because theyre giving public funds and its not that. Want its not for that. If they want to need do. To pay it, we need to all do. Amy benefits seriously . Amy who benefits seriously . Who benefits now about a plaque beneath statue when weve beneath the statue when weve got know, massive social got, you know, massive social problems in this country, weve got issues with nhs got massive issues with the nhs , you are people going to , you know, are people going to be or any better , you know, are people going to be as or any better , you know, are people going to be as a or any better , you know, are people going to be as a result or any better , you know, are people going to be as a result ofor any better , you know, are people going to be as a result of a any better , you know, are people going to be as a result of a plaquetter , you know, are people going to be as a result of a plaque that off as a result of a plaque that goes, oh, by way, goes, oh, by the way, this person had exactly the same views everybody the views as everybody else in the 18005. Views as everybody else in the 1800s. The case for a lot thats not the case for a lot of these. These it . Of these. These people is it . And can just say about and but but can i just say about this nhs trust that you cant get because not get confused because its not taxpayer get confused because its not t. Itsryer get confused because its not t. Its actually the charity , its actually the charity money. So its separate money. So its not its separate. Its the nhs. Lothian charity rather than the taxpayer. So thats an important hold on. Heres the deal. They have that money because they have an organisation by organisation that is funded by pubuc public money. Years us of research after years us of Research Consulting and members of consulting staff and members of the public. So this wasnt this was was based on the demand was this was based on the demand from within, within the nhs trust. Theres a more serious issue here. My two kids are in their 20s. Theyve grown up basically 20s. Theyve grown up basically being told this is a bad country. And i have to sit at the Kitchen Table and say, yes, we were a colonial power. But guess what . Belgium was a worse colonial power. Guess what . Belgium was a worse colonial power. France. Guess what . Belgium was a worse colonial power. France. Portugal was a terrible colonial power. So as sean said, everybodys got a very mixed history. Weve got a very mixed history. Weve got a lot to be proud of. And as you say, patrick, quite right. That beautiful statue of churchill in in westminster, which we had to box off so the idiots and potentially people intent on committing criminal damage didnt destroy the thing. But statues are always used for protest. So think of the Little Mermaid, mermaid in mermaid, the Little Mermaid in denmark. Is it . That is complete in copenhagen. Its completely in copenhagen. Its completely innocuous. Its about a fairy tale, yet its regularly used in political protest for a womens rights march. It vibrator rights march. It had a vibrator , an apparatus attached to it. Theyre always going to be used in protest because definitely in denmark they. Denmark they. But, but, but, but the point, the of interest. The point, points of interest. Thats my point. Thats my point. The other point about the other point is about statues, representation statues, their representation of their you remove their time. So when you remove them, what you do is remove our ability to look at history then and i think thats very important because when you talk about nhs trust, if its important because when you talk abouown nhs trust, if its important because when you talk abouown money, ust, if its important because when you talk abouown money, give,f its important because when you talk abouown money, give, give, their own money, give, give, give away. If its if its give away. If its if its collective money, a different conversation to be had. Conversation needs to be had. But really to but again, i really want to understand think you help understand if you think you help black children by removing british history , youre wrong. British history, youre wrong. How does a black child know . How does a black child know . Where do they learn it from . They these things and the they see these things and the question so if were question start. So if were going write these plaques, question start. So if were goingneedirite these plaques, question start. So if were goingneedirite tiwritten ques, question start. So if were goingneedirite tiwritten with, they need to be written with balance. Were not going to balance. But were not going to leave Jimmy Saville leave up the Jimmy Saville statue in leeds. Whipped that down. We whipped that one down. Thats when we when we when we explained not retain. And explained we did not retain. And i think that applies to a lot of statues. Saville did statues. Jimmy saville never did anything he anything to help this nation. He did the nhs. Anything to help this nation. He did were the nhs. Anything to help this nation. He did were talkingnhs. Anything to help this nation. He did were talking about were were talking about were talking who did talking about people who did significant for the significant things for the nation. Jimmy saville nobodys asking rid of the asking you to get rid of the statue, the statue. But statue, to keep the statue. But the important thing, jimmy the most important thing, Jimmy Saville hes not our saville is now hes not our history. He never built the nation. No no nation. But also we have no no balance in it. So he is slavery, slavery, bad , bad, bad. We had the bad, bad, bad. We had the abolitionists, navy abolitionists, the royal navy was out there fighting the arabs continued slavery until not. Well, you could argue that the arabs are still going on with their slavery, you so their slavery, you know, so again, theres a lot to be proud of. Think destroy. Its of. And i think destroy. Its like destroying the past. Patrick bad. Patrick its very bad. Amy people yeah, i think amy the people today amount to much today who dont amount to much and havent really got anything better on better to do are intent on destroying of the past to destroying things of the past to try to build country in their try to build a country in their own and that often own image. And that image often is just dont celebrate things just dont celebrate things that dont deserve celebration. Move them into a museum. Yeah , but then what do you. Yeah, but then what do you. But is it. What do you but then this is it. What do you replace with . Because its replace them with . Because its never up. You never just nato. You end up. You end end replaced them end up. You end up replaced them with gary lineker. With a statue of gary lineker. Yeah, yeah , yeah. You put gary yeah, yeah, yeah. You put gary lineker vorderman and lineker and Carol Vorderman and Chris Lineker and Carol Vorderman and chns be lineker and Carol Vorderman and chris be interesting Chris Packham. Be interesting though, because if i didnt like that Chris Packham would though, because if i didnt like the Chris Packham would though, because if i didnt like the allowed kham would though, because if i didnt like the allowed t0|am would though, because if i didnt like the allowed to rip would though, because if i didnt like the allowed to rip that would though, because if i didnt like the allowed to rip that down . |ld i be allowed to rip that down . I tell you what, id rip the Carol Vorderman in heartbeat. Vorderman down in a heartbeat. Yeah. And then presumably you wouldnt be done for criminal damage dont say dont damage because dont say dont say the people it doesnt say that. The people it doesnt mean clearly would like to clarify. Would like hes not clarify. Would like hes not going anything down or going to rip anything down or commit any of criminal commit any kind of criminal damage. A statue doesnt exist. Yeah, it doesnt exist. Yeah, it doesnt exist. Thats true. Not yet. Sure. Give time. Give it time. Give it time. Im telling yeah. Telling you, i will. Yeah. Explain. And and then well explain. And retain, because that will be a worthy well i think worthy statue. Well i think were infantilizing here. Were infantilizing people here. Really you seriously . I really do. You end we to explain. End up with. We need to explain. We explain. Is we need to explain. This is faux outrage. Know, things outrage. You know, we had things like was black boy like i think it was black boy lane we, haringey lane, didnt we, in haringey where did a consultation. Where they did a consultation. No one really cared about it. People even who were black, who lived on that road didnt care about it. Then they had another consultation and then they did it. Then consultation and then they did it. Then took it down it. Then they took it down again. All of this cost us money. Are we paying money. Why are we paying for this . No as you its a world of as you say, its a world of spunous as you say, its a world of spurious outrage theres spurious outrage when theres plenty genuinely upset plenty to get genuinely upset about, dont about, isnt it . But i dont want to be thinking that want my kids to be thinking that they live in a rotten country thats worse than other countries. Our history is very, countries. Our history is very, very is very good and we shouldnt conflating with shouldnt be conflating it with the slavery experience the the slavery experience in the united , is imported United States, which is imported over shouldnt be happening. What good does do to what what good does it do to do that . It does. Look, house it does. And look, a house divided will divided against itself will fail. Things fail. And all of these things point fact that make up point to the fact that make up this false narrative that this this false narrative that britain is horrible place and britain is a horrible place and thatis britain is a horrible place and that is not healthy for our children. No, no. Serious children. No, no. Serious situation has grown from self hatred. Hatred. You know what it is . I mean, honestly, peoples jobs depend on right there are on this stuff right there are people who have to justify a 100, £200,000 a year salary and diversity and equality. And they have to look at things and be outraged and demand change. Othennise someone goes, whats the you . The point of you . Thats just we have a multi cultural society. We need to cater for all the people in society whose best place to do that. Someone that completely understands the individual experiences. So if so, if so if. I saw a statue of gandhi, right, which there is. Right . And gandhi also there is. Right . And gandhi also did like some quite younger individuals as well documented. Individuals as well documented. He also wrote a letter to mussolini praising him, praising people along with that political ideology. So next to gandhi ideology. So next to gandhi statue , do i have to write, you statue, do i have to write, you know , id like a little know, id like a little explainer. Explainer. Give me an explainer. Exactly. I want an informed experience. Experience. Mandela thats unquestionably great figure. Unquestionably great figure. Unquestionably great figure. Unquestionably great figure. Nelson mandela , great figure. Nelson mandela, obviously, you know, at times there was violent action that was used to try get their was used to try to get their cause across, which was used by the group he involved the group that he was involved in. Do have that . Do we have in. Do we have that . Do we have do mandela . Whats really important is whats really important is who gets to pick this is the worry. The worry. Who worry. This is the worry. Who gets control what gets who gets to control what you , who control you think, who gets to control what and whats really what you know and whats really important. Back. An important. I go back. Its an infanta ization. All this information. Everybody. Information exists. Everybody. There is no person on this planet. Save my mum who is perfect. There was no body whos never done anything wrong. Save never done anything wrong. Save my mum. So therefore its always going to be some kind of contention. An and all these contention. An and all these people are trying to do is make sure push their sure they get to push their version of world us just version of the world on us just go just near me a monument. Go on just near me a monument. Lots of Young American airmen, british airmen during the second world war. The list of names goes on and on. How many of those would have had views that would have been approved of by these campaigners . None of campaigners . Probably none of them. Its looking at are they amazing . They for amazing . They died for our country, they did. They country, patrick. They did. They did than complain. Did more than complain. Looking history through looking at history through todays , looking at todays lens, looking at peoples attitudes, through todays lens, i find it im just very uncomfortable with Edward Colston statue was put up in in that lens and that lens was incorrect because it should never have been celebrated. He should never have been put up this. What do you call it, up as this. What do you call it, like hero or talking about that was never true. Theyre not theyre not all about heroes. About heroes. All right. Okay. All right. Feisty start to this hour. We have started as we mean to go on. Coming up, as top Daily Telegraph columnist and my brilliant panellist, Allison Pearson , says shes pearson, says that shes a conservative, but will not vote for them with rishi sunak at the helm. Really interesting should the return to its right the party return to its right wing roots and stand any hope of surviving . Well, allison will surviving . Well, allison will define that view as my panel battle it out a little bit later on. I want to know from you guys, would you vote or are you a tory that thinks that you wont vote tory at the next election and next . This is going to be good. Was ex england manager kevin keegan wrong to say doesnt like female say that he doesnt like female pundits about the mens pundits talking about the mens game . Englands most capped male footballer, Peter Shilton , takes footballer, Peter Shilton, takes on lionesses legend faye ii. And thatis on lionesses legend faye ii. And that is coming up in just a sec Patrick Christys on gb news. Im gb news radio. Yeah great story gb news radio. Yeah great story there. So footballing legend kevin keegan has sparked outrage after saying he doesnt like listening to female pundits talk about the mens game. Speaking to about 250 people at an event in bristol, the former england player said , i dont player and manager said, i dont like to listen to ladies talking about the england mens team at the match because i dont think its the same experience. I have a problem with that. The presenters we have now, some of the girls are so good they are better than the guys. Its a great ladies. But great time for the ladies. But if i see an england lady footballer saying about england against scotland at wembley and shes if i would have shes saying if i would have beenin shes saying if i would have been in that position, would been in that position, i would have dont think have done this, i dont think its same. Dont its quite the same. I dont think it crosses over that much. Obviously. Now there has been a massive backlash. The 72 year old later clarified that it wasnt his intention to belittle women , but react this. Women, but to react to this. Well now i am joined by former england keeper Peter Shilton and the longest serving female captain of england to date, faye white. Thank you very much. Always ladies first. Faye, ive got to ask you know, do you think hes hes got a point . Um , well, he has his opinion. Um, well, he has his opinion. Thats his opinion, isnt it . I mean, ive met kevin keegan a couple of times now , and one couple of times now, and one time was when he actually came when i was an england player and coached us when he was manager and he spent the day with us and trained us. So obviously i wasnt in the room. I didnt hear the context of his remarks. But obviously everyone has an opinion and obviously this is sparked some controversy for me. Yes obviously, the females wouldnt have played in a top level mens game , but ive been level mens game, but ive been on a panels many a time where ive been on a womens world cup and have had a male present as a pundit to kind of give it credibility or to give it that kind of, oh, its proper now because weve got a male sat here commentating or having his opinion it. Here commentating or having his opinion it. And for me, it opinion about it. And for me, it just opens up the thing of, well, you know, theres a top well, you know, if theres a top class , male player, but class player, male player, but hes never played in a world cup, does that mean he shouldnt really comment on a world cup game . Theres a manager game . Or if theres a manager who never played at the top level, does that they can level, does that mean they can never go on become a top never go on to become a top level manager in the mens game . So yeah, its obviously its all about opinions, isnt it . Yeah. No absolutely. Peter ill throw it over to you now. Is there something to be said for the idea that that mens football is like a place for men in society and, you know, can we just have that or not . No, of course not. Patrick i think in this day and age, with equal opportunities in in many things, you know, women and men come together so much and, you know , i mean, ive always been know, i mean, ive always been a big supporter of womens football, especially the last 5 or 6 years. Jill scott , when or 6 years. Jill scott, when she broke a caps record. And, you know, the caps record. And, you know, the euros and the world cup, you know , womens footballers has know, womens footballers has improved dramatically. You know , um, i, i personally you know, um, i, i personally , you know, i can see what kevin was getting at. I think its been taken out of context. I mean, hes been described as a dinosaur, you know. I mean, he he was managing man city in 2005. So you know, its not that long ago. Hes a man of big experience and managed england. And i think that that basically you know what hes hes actually saying is that you know would women play against men in a mens game . No they men in a mens game . No they wont because of obvious other things. And you know, should a woman whos probably been at the top of her career in the last 4 or 5 years, you know , or in the or 5 years, you know, or in the womens game , obviously longer womens game, obviously longer than that. But its only just taken taken off really , you taken taken off really, you know, be be put in front of maybe somebody thats got, you know , 15 Years Experience of top know, 15 Years Experience of top Class International football. I Class International football. I think thats what he was trying to say. But obviously i think so. And but obviously i think so. And look, look, ive ive probably dont know kevin anywhere near as well as you two do. I have met him. What its met him. And for what its worth, i thought it was an absolutely was absolutely brilliant guy. I was just ten just probably only about ten years old and he just did a coaching day he was lovely, coaching day and he was lovely, you all the time you know, and all the time in the world people. He was the world for people. And he was managing manchester city, actually. You think that actually. Do you think that there is there any tokenism . Do you think so when you see sometimes a footballing panel andits sometimes a footballing panel and its about the mens side of the game, do you think that sometimes they lob a woman in there for so it looks better . There for so it looks better . Um, i think in the past, certainly, but i think now weve got top female players who have gone on and won a european championship, you know, there and for the last ten years weve been getting to the latter stages of major tournaments. But stages of major tournaments. But i do think its just the general problem in society that womens football is very much , you know, football is very much, you know, competing always against the men. Its always looked at as being kept down, downgraded. But being kept down, downgraded. But its just with team sports, i think that happens more for female sports, whereas youd like to of athletics, tennis, these kind of comments. You know, just dont seem to cross over or happen. Youve got navratilova beat billie jean kim who would be commentating on the mens tennis games and that never gets questioned or Paula Ratcliffe commentating on a london mens marathon race. And that never gets commented. So its just this this thing around football and its such a male dominated in that for history and for time. And obviously the and for time. And obviously the womens game is its been going on for a lot longer than just the last few years, you know, but everyone in the but thats what everyone in the general see, because now general public see, because now its in the media. So, its captured in the media. So, yes, were playing a lot of catch and its still about catch up and its still about forming people forming and changing people perceptions. I mean, my whole career , it was based about, you career, it was based about, you know, getting the right to play and change that perception of its just not suitable for women and it out, you and then getting it out, you know, in the mainstream, getting more , more young girls playing, etcetera. Still it is etcetera. So its still it is unfortunately, football unfortunately, womens football and obviously its a barrier when women are trying to commentate and be a pundit. Theres obviously lots of presenters that are female and thats not an issue so much and it hasnt been for many a year. But yeah, just that but its yeah, its just that level what does she level of, well, what does she know . Have played level of, well, what does she knthe have played level of, well, what does she knthe game. Have played level of, well, what does she knthe game. But have played level of, well, what does she knthe game. But thats1e played in the game. But thats my point. Back to my point point. Going back to my point earlier, male earlier, of when a top male player premiership is player in the premiership is talking international, talking about international, whereas even whereas and they havent even been international, but been in an international, but that never picked that would never be picked up. So is often oh, its because so it is often oh, its because shes female. How does she know its a good point. You cant question the dynamic of people wanting to support the game is changing and females are passionate about the game we have. You know, some of us have a big knowledge in it. Of course , experience in it. And its just yeah , changing peoples im just yeah, changing peoples im just yeah, changing peoples im just bring just im just going to bring peter because were slightly running peter because were slightly run but peter, do you think that but peter, do you think that do think that blokes down do you think that blokes down the do , the pub are wrong . If they do, they look at it and they go, you know , i kind of want i want a know, i kind of want i want a man commentating on this. Is that wrong or do you think thats just like a bit of harmless pub talk . Harmless pub talk . Its everybodys opinion, isnt it . As we said earlier on, you know, personally , you know, you know, personally, you know, i know kevin very well. And, you i know kevin very well. And, you know, i dont think hed go out of his way to, you know , to make of his way to, you know, to make womens football , you know, any womens football, you know, any any less than what it is. I mean, theyve won a european champion. You know, we havent done it, man. You know, so for a long time. So, you know, there is that. But i think it comes to down experience, you know, you know , were getting of know, were getting a lot of ladies coming on females coming on very all you know, very quickly and i think its you think i think youre bound to think i think youre bound to think look is this because you know theyve been in the news recently and weve got to have this equal have they got the experience to talk about International Football at mens level . You know, thats just an opinion. I think thats all kevin was trying to say. He felt that maybe, you know , yeah, it that maybe, you know, yeah, it would be better with somebody else. Else. I think this is i think the important thing is because people mean , they are people are now i mean, they are you theyre going for you know, theyre going for kevin a result of what kevin keegan as a result of what he said and. Faye well thats the faye yeah, well thats the natural thing these days. Patrick it. Anybody thats natural thing these days. P. Bit,k it. Anybody thats natural thing these days. P. Bit, you it. Anybody thats natural thing these days. P. Bit, you know anybody thats natural thing these days. P. Bit, you know ,. Nybody thats natural thing these days. P. Bit, you know , sortldy thats natural thing these days. P. Bit, you know , sort of thats natural thing these days. P. Bit, you know , sort of like. s a bit, you know, sort of like say a saying anything against maybe equal opportunity is i think theyre twisting it really. I really do. Really. I really do. Do you want to look, do you find a word to you on this . Do you want to see him, you know, cancelled for this . And pilloried left, right centre pilloried left, right and centre for his comments. So whats your what do you want to see done . No, no, not all. I think no, no, not at all. I think obviously it sparks a debate in the nowadays , but i the media. And nowadays, but i dont people can be, you dont think people can be, you know, when it comes to equality , just completely you , just completely say, oh, you know, fine and, you know, know, thats fine and, you know, we to go it. If he has we have to go with it. If he has an opinion, i an opinion an opinion, i have an opinion that some and is that some come and say is i dont enjoy and know, dont enjoy an and you know, just hes talking just because hes talking about a female, it shouldnt be jumped on ive a female, it shouldnt be jumped on him. Ive a female, it shouldnt be jumped on him. He ive a female, it shouldnt be jumped on him. He trained ive a female, it shouldnt be jumped on him. He trained iius. He met him. He trained with us. He spent you know, you spent a whole day, you know, you know , when the team, know, when i was in the team, many a year ago now. So even then and i really dont think its in his personality to have meant it in that way. Personally but yeah, i think its just now the media we obviously anything about equality they jump on it and but yeah you just cant completely not say anything about it is his opinion. Completely not say anything about it is his opinion. I completely not say anything about it is his opinion. I have about it is his opinion. I have opinions where some commentators i like, some i dont and i think , well how do they know theyve not played that level . But not played at that level . But yeah, i think lots of people will feel its because its talking about a female. But i think youre looking at the higher end of him being a top international. Having had that experience. He knows it is experience. He knows what it is like in that situation. And so like in that situation. And so i can see, i can see. I think. Patrick i think yeah , i just patrick i think yeah, i just think that maybe, you know, its been sort of thrust at, at the normal football pub men in particular, you know that that weve got to have women on the programme because of the euros and that sort of thing. And it just seems that you know its the must, you know, weve got to weve got to have this this women on the programme to make it, to justify it, you know, whether its right or whether its wrong, you know its, it comes to down experience and knowledge really. All right. Both of you, thank you very much. We could talk about this much. We could talk about this all night. Ive had to wish i could, unfortunately, its could, but unfortunately, its not show, not an overtly sports show, so ive move lovely ive got to move on. But lovely stuff. Very, very stuff. Thank you very, very much, you. Is former much, both of you. Is former england keeper there, Peter Shilton serving shilton and the longest serving female to shilton and the longest serving femalpossibly to shilton and the longest serving femalpossibly forever to shilton and the longest serving femalpossibly forever as to shilton and the longest serving femalpossibly forever as well, date, possibly forever as well, faye white, thank you very much, both of you. Great. That right. Okay loads more to come. Okay loads more still to come. Coming uncancel , fleet coming up in uncancel, fleet street mackenzie. Street legend Kelvin Mackenzie. He big topics of the he tackles the big topics of the day. But next in our media buzz , as top Daily Telegraph columnist gb news tonight columnist and gb news tonight panellists Allison Pearson says shes a conservative, but she wont vote for rishi sunaks. Government should the party return to its right wing roots to stand up any hope whatsoever for of surviving allison will defend that view. Define what it is. We got an interesting chat in the break there. Youre not going to want news radio. Welcome back winners. Lets return to tomorrows news tonight in our media buzz. More front pages have just been delivered hot off the press. This is an interesting one to say the least. Actually there we go. The say the least. Actually there we go. The sun. Hollys kidnapped plot terror is the headline as they detail how a suspected plan to kidnap this morning. Presenter Holly Willoughby was squashed by police. A 36 year old man has been arrested. More on the media buzz now with tonights panel. Daily on the media buzz now with tonights panel. Daily telegraph tonights panel. Daily telegraph columnist Allison Pearson. Weve columnist Allison Pearson. Weve got conservative peer lord shaun bailey and author and broadcaster amy nicholl. Turner broadcaster amy nicholl. Turner so rishi sunak used his keynote speech at the Tory Party Conference yesterday to outline three pledges that he thinks will transform the nation, phasing out smoking , making phasing out smoking, making kids, study maths and english to 18. What and the northern leg of hs2. There we go. But are those policies radical enough to convince the nation true blue conservatives that rishi is the man to fundamentally change the country . Im sorry, butjust country . Im sorry, butjust leave that on the screen for a second. You know, i like rishi. Hes a nice guy. Dont get me wrong. That is i mean , its not wrong. That is i mean, its not the most inspiring thing in the world. That is it phase out smoking. Children study maths smoking. Children study maths and english to 18 years old. Scotland northern leg of hs2. Our own Allison Pearson our very own Allison Pearson wasnt writing in her wasnt impressed writing in her Daily Telegraph column, which by the way, read. I am a the way, is a must read. I am a conservative, but i am done with this government. I conservative, but i am done with this government. I mean. So you really allison was made really think allison was made you back the you turn your back on the tories . Well, tories . Allison well, im not alone. Alone. Im far from alone. So obviously i get thousands and thousands of emails. The conservative base , we call them conservative base, we call them patrick, dont we . The tory faithful . Not anymore. They are faithful . Not anymore. They are the tory unfaithful. They are the tory unfaithful. They are adulterous with the conservative party and they want to see the conservative party punished for not being conservative. So people voted with an open heart in 2019, gave them a fabulous majority. And what have they done with it . Skimmed milk. Lib dems , a lot of them, apart from dems, a lot of them, apart from a few people who will obviously well come to later. So there is massive disillusion , anger. Massive disillusion, anger. Were going to see in a fortnights time. Were going to see in a fortnights time. Were going to fortnights time. Were going to have two by elections in safe tory seats. Lets see what the conservative vote is. Whats happening is conservative voters are staying home. They are refusing to vote for this. And those three things that rishi sunak said in his speech, if you asked any conservative voter in the country, name your top three things that youd like to have addressed. They wouldnt come into the top 25, would they . Into the top 25, would they . I have a little theory, though, right. Go on. So brexit, it changed things because. Cause it changed things because. Cause it changed things because. Cause it was brexit that sparked the red wall vote because they wanted to get brexit through. So previous ukip voters turned to the conservatives for the first time, giving them that massive majority. Well, nigel farage stood to one side and mentioned. So now i believe , amy, lots of. So now i believe, amy, lots of labour voters. No, let me finish labour voters. No, let me finish the point. Let me make the point. Let me make the point. So theres so scared of losing that red wall that theyre saying what they think theyre saying what they think the red wall voter wants. They dont even believe these things. I honestly dont think even seriously. I mean, i would be surprised if even the most hardened , sheltered political hardened, sheltered political adviser fundamentally misunderstood the red wall enough to think, you know, whats to going get maths and english. Look, theres a couple of things. Ill defend them first, the first thing to say, alison, is right. Theres a lot of disillusion amongst tory voters. And, and id argue it is getting worse. Theres one thing will worse. Theres one thing i will say was serious say that i thought was serious on of three, and that on the list of three, and that was , you know, hs2, was about, you know, hs2, because what hs2 is, is a signal to those red wall seats that they have not been forgotten. That piece , you know, that travel piece, you know, across the top of the country is very important to people. For umpteen reasons. Umpteen different reasons. Now, the two subjects, a levels the other two subjects, a levels and cigarettes, i mean, i wouldnt have put them on the list. I think theres many more heavyweight we could heavyweight things we could be talking one talking about, but theres one thing in rishis thing i will say in rishis defence, in the last three months hes become more of a conservative he been conservative than he had been before he has before that point, and he has a little bit of time. The mistake that you make with a Conference Speech is to try to put everything it. One thing he everything in it. One thing he knows the pm, as he trots out knows as the pm, as he trots out what he wants to do for the election, will always get election, he will always get a hearing. But i do hearing. But, but, but i do accept that. Points one and two. I mean , smokings going away and i mean, smokings going away and it only matters if im sorry, but this is. It is dull. Its boring. Its beige, its horrendous. Its not exciting. Go out. Go out in the driving rain on a on a wednesday evening and knock on that door for me and go and get out the vote and tell them were going to ban smoking. Said nobody ever i no. And what coming back to what amy said, what would unite the red wall and the blue shires is the majority of people want to see immigration coming down. Weve got a conservative government presiding over record levels of net immigration for focus, for last to be over a million over two years. Come november, the 23rd. That is shocking. Patrick nobody who shocking. Patrick nobody who voted conservative wants that. Voted conservative wants that. Weve got a government which is defying the views of its electorate and the electorate wants to give it a really good kicking. And thats what theyre to going get. I am forecasting a record third general election defeat with an amazingly low turnout. You can hold me to that. So youre going to say the turnout the thing that does turnout is the thing that does it amy, put it for me and amy, i will put this to that we have got a this to you that we have got a choice. An absolutely choice. S an absolutely horrendous choice. If horrendous choice. You know, if rishi sunak is skimmed milk, lib dems and the leader of the lib dems and the leader of the lib dems is actually a gone off yoghurt and i dont know what keir starmer is, who on earth are vote for . Are people going to vote for . Its this the best its terrible. Is this the best of britain really . Well, is, he has well, the thing is, he has had well, the conservative party have had 13 years to pasteurise us. So thats quite a lot of time to get there. And so people are ready for a change. And you cant blaming things on the cant keep blaming things on the labour who havent Even Labour Party who havent even had a job, you know, just not blaming the labour blaming things on the labour party. A lot of people , lets be party. A lot of people, lets be clear rishi rishi has clear that rishi rishi has a long way to go to convince people, but lets be clear. Keir starmer has the answer to absolutely what you just did it. If keir starmer said, we really need to know what the well, the question would be, are you just do you just want to vote for someone who isnt tory . And that would be it. But thats the biggest thing hes got for him right at the got going for him right at the moment. Weve got keir starmer every his mouth, every time he opens his mouth, something every time he opens his mouth, somtheng have poor and then you have these poor labour have to follow labour mps who have to follow him big and him around with a big mop and they oh, didnt really they go, oh, you didnt really mean really mean that. They didnt really mean that. They didnt really mean know, this is mean that, you know, this is it. So the general election so she is the general election gets closer, then maybe were going that going to end up in that situation. The meantime, situation. But in the meantime, i now, alison, on i want you right now, alison, on this sunak this show to win rishi sunak the next election. Know next general election. You know , to it. Should he have , to say it. What should he have said . Repeal the said . Come on, repeal the Climate Change act immediately. Climate change act immediately. We build 500,000 houses for young people in this country. Have some hope. Get rid of all the gender identity Critical Race Theory from from schools and ban children transitioning in schools. Three things that will be a sight more popular than the ones he came up makes you to sing the you want to sing god save the king. You want to sing god save the kin does are pumped thank does are pumped up now. Thank you very much. Right. Coming up is business secretary Kemi Badenoch right that britain is the country in the world to the best country in the world to be a black person . My panel will discuss in tonights discuss that in tonights greatest britain and union. Discuss that in tonights greatstickritain and union. Discuss that in tonights greatstick aroundfd union. Discuss that in tonights greatstick around to union. Discuss that in tonights greatstick around to seewn. Discuss that in tonights greatstick around to see if jack, stick around to see if thats enough for her to win tonights crown. To next, though, street legend, the though, fleet street legend, the ever dangerous Kelvin Mackenzie will have his say on kevin keegan kicking off a female. Pundits commentating on the mens game, but also a couple of other stellar stories as well. Dont you dare move there. Its time now for uncancelled. Well, we discussed uncancelled. Well, we discussed kevin keegan a little bit earlier on tonight, but hes extraordinarily claimed he extraordinarily claimed that he has a problem with female commentators talking about mens football. Heard commentators talking about mens footb england heard commentators talking about mens footb england goalkeeper heard commentators talking about mens footb england goalkeeper peter from england goalkeeper Peter Shilton. He said that it was basically fine, but he could kind understand i think kind of understand it. I think we might craving something we might be craving something a little stronger this little bit stronger on this topic , dont you . Someone who topic, dont you . Someone who might be a little bit more forthcoming with their views. Im fleet street im joined by fleet street legend Kelvin Mackenzie. Kelvin thank you very, very much. Do you think women should just butt out of talking about mens football . No. Football . No. Well, look, just just, you know, because you get any time you criticise a woman today , you criticise a woman today, youre a misogynist. You know, its absolutely incredible. In fact, theres one woman who describes herself tonight as the ceo of womens football who said that that theres a moral obligation on for men to keep their views to themselves, really , honestly, in themselves, really, honestly, in this world. Look , i like laura james. Her look, i like laura james. Her golf on sky. I love Annabel Croft doing it on tennis. I do not actually enjoy the plethora of women giving their views on premiership football and also talking about i think, laughingly talking about what happened to them when they were playing for i dont know , i playing for i dont know, i dont know. Some team like say , brentford some team like say, brentford ladies or something. I just dont enjoy it. I just dont enjoy it. And i am saying i dont enjoy it and i was very pleased that kevin keegan said it because among people i know in football , they dont like it either. , they dont like it either. Kelvin kelvin, you could argue that you could argue the public, you could argue the pubuc public, you could argue the public dont like it. Look at whats happening with football focus his figures. Kelvin you know, alex scotts there. Yes, theyre tanking. Yes theyre tanking. Yes now, that may be slightly unfair , actually, because the unfair, actually, because the truth about the matter that those magazine video shows are really are yesterdays idea. However however, because she when she came in in charge , as when she came in in charge, as dan walker points out, the man before her, they have lost a million in audience. Now, there may be a link or there may not be a link. May be a link or there may not be a link. I may be a link or there may not be a link. I suspect there is be a link. I suspect there is a slight link. So why cant women just compete and come back and say this is this, that and the other . Instead of that, they other . Instead of that, they accuse you of misogyny any they dont like free speech at all. They dont like criticism. Why they dont like criticism. Why dont they just get on with it . You know what, though . At the end day, about the end of the day, its about the quality product. Actually quality of the product. Actually thats that thats what really matters. That should than should matter more than affirmative action or positive discrimination. And ive got discrimination. And ive got a load of mates. Ive got a load of mates who used to work at sky sports. Okay. I know a load of them. And they say that the quality product has been quality of the product has been diminished beyond recognition because of positive discrimination. Discrimination. Okay. Yes actually, they i totally agree with you. However, it doesnt apply to all sports. It doesnt apply to all sports. You listen to Annabel Croft , you you listen to Annabel Croft, you will learn something. You will admire the way she puts her arguments and admire her knowledge of the game. I dont get that sense from a lot of the women who are currently being used. Im not saying that in ten years time there may not be some great commentators and you come away or great pundits come away saying, thats fantastic. I cant name you one right now, and me and the rest of my mates do not want them doing it. And yet they will carry on doing it. Well. Well, they will carry well. Well, they will carry on doing it and you know, there is there is a case that goes, well, its not a case. Its a fact that the womens england team have infinitely more team have been infinitely more successful than the mens Football Team recently. But whether or not but whether or not that therefore qualifies and thats kind of the point that kelvin , kelvin, kevin keegan kelvin, kelvin, kevin keegan gosh, those are case were making, which was that is a different beast. Im going, you know, being in the final at the sharp end of a Mens Champions League final versus as you i think rather politely said, you know, playing for brentford ladies, we can throw another story doing it. Its ladies, we can throw another stdaily doing it. Its ladies, we can throw another stdaily mail doing it. Its ladies, we can throw another stdaily mail exclusive; it. Its ladies, we can throw another stdaily mail exclusive tonight. A daily mail exclusive tonight. I mean, revealed that a militant union leader at the heart of the doctors strikes is no. A labour doctors strikes is no. A labour activist who boasted of charging the nhs £1,870 for a strike cover shift. By the way, we had someone who charged nearly eight grand for a strike cover shift recently. These strikes are not really about the money, are they . Political. Do you they . Its political. Do you think . Oh well, in fact they said so only yesterday. The guy leading the strike said wont be settled until said this wont be settled until labour come in. Then, you know, there hand in hand labour enjoy there hand in hand labour enjoy the fact that the doctors are making your mums pain as a, as a, as a cannon to get them a pay rise. Who is surprised among your viewers how many will be surprised that labour activists are at the height of this strike . And can i tell you if labour get in and lets hope that alison doesnt actually represent the beating heart of the conservative party and if labour get in, imagine what the rmt bma all these other these, the, the teachers, what is life to going be like . It will be a nightmare. It will be the biggest mistake this country has ever made. And that includes having David Cameron as Prime Minister. Well, they obviously will say, hey, these conditions are unworkable and were losing a load of people to go and work in australia. The pay is rubbish. What we do, were undervalued. You us covid you all clap for us when covid happened and now, now deserve happened and now, now we deserve more , more money, i suppose. But more, more money, i suppose. But we cant get around idea we cant get around the idea that lets be honest, any industry, its not just doctors, by the way, and all this, any industry that is heavily unionised is going to lean to the are the left because unions are generally. I cant generally left leaning. I cant really think of any right wing private members club. Yeah, all private members club. Yeah, all right. We have a divided we have a divided nation. We have a divided nation. Kelvin, you you, you always light up the show. Thank you very much. Kelvin mackenzie. Theyre never his mackenzie. Theyre never his words that we are former fleet street legend, still a fleet street legend, still a fleet street legend, still a fleet street legend in a way. Now its time to reveal todays greatest britain and Union Jackass. Oh britain and Union Jackass. Oh go. Are you alison . First day. Whos your greatest . Britain its dame priti patel. Oh one of of the conservative of the stars of the conservative conference. More balls than all the assembled men. And calling for democracy amongst the tory grassroots. So tories proper tories can pick the leaders and determine the policies. Determine the policies. And i think she might have said something nice about gb news. She was very flattering about gb news as well. If only we had that clip i so so| so i want to welcome some more friends here tonight , our more friends here tonight, our friends that are here. The newest, most successful, most dynamic and no nonsense new station and the defenders of free speech. That is my friends at gb news. Thank you for everything that you do. You do. Oh, i did the auction at that. Do wear a gold jacket. Never do wear a gold jacket. Never again. Sean, who is your greatest . Britain. My greatest british nominee is business secretary Kemi Badenoch, who said britain is the best place for a black person to live. Look, no country is perfect, but this country is great, offers a great opportunity to come get educated, raise a family and live a good life and i think shes right. I love it here. I wouldnt want to be anywhere else. Oh, were off to an absolute flyer here, amy, lower the. The tone. My nominee is Dehenna Davison for deciding her tory colleagues words about the Trans Community at conference were disgusting because i do agree. Because i do agree. All right, fair enough. I. I saw her at the what was that . We havent got the clip, have we . I dont know. Have we . No, no, we havent. No, but but there we go to believe you have to see it. Believe it. You have to see it. But did actually but fair enough. I did actually see the lgbt see her at the lgbt conservatives thing conservatives after party thing. She was wearing a sparkly rainbow top. Anyway my rainbow coloured top. Anyway my winner or the winner anyway, of greatest president is alison and its dame priti patel. Way well done. Well done day. Pretty well done, alison. Well done, world. Okay. Whos your Union Jackass . It is the chance of the exchequer worst chancellor in tory history. Jeremy hunt. I wont mispronounce his surname. Im a man without any balls. Typical of the lib dems that is bringing the conservative party down. I think i now have to say jeremy hunt would deny he doesnt have any balls , but its doesnt have any balls, but its a phrase i went into broadcasting for that kind of moment. What sean is union moment. What sean is Union Jackass my Union Jackass is guardian columnist owen jones, who ran around tory conference terrorising mps with that terrible gotcha journalism, pretending to be a journalist. Its not journalism. It is political activism. Fair and on top of that, he also did it to activists as well. Thats not fair. If you want to be called a journalist, you have to be a journalist, you have to be a journalist, not a political activist. Same old double standard. Standard. So watch the video because, of course, decide for yourself if it is interesting. It is one thing and you very rarely catch standing up. For one say is that one thing i will say is that it was channel and did was his own channel and he did put whole out there, put the whole thing out there, which he could have edited. I know. You. I hate which he could have edited. I knovsean. You. I hate which he could have edited. I knovsean. Right. I hate which he could have edited. I knovsean. Right. I hatwhos you. Sean. Right. Amy amy, whos a Union Jackass oh, its kevin keegan for saying he doesnt doesnt saying he doesnt like doesnt like lady like listening to the lady footballers talking about mens football. Maybe because football. Maybe its because theyre better at it and actually wins stuff. Actually wins stuff. Okay, right, good point. Im okay, right, good point. Im going to go uni and jackass. Jeremy hunt. Okay there we go. So weve doubled alison oh, havent we . Fantastic. Oh, there we are. Right. Well done, everybody. Well done. Well done. Well done. Okay. Thank you very much. Wonderful panel. Great much. My wonderful panel. Great to thank to have you all on. And thank you everybody has you so much, everybody who has been watching, whos been listening, whos been consuming this content, wherever you are. I all. See you i love you all. Ill see you tomorrow. Hello again. Tomorrow. Hello again. Its mcgivern here from its Aidan Mcgivern here from the office the gb news the met. Office for the gb news forecast. Fine in the far south forecast. Fine in the far south over the next hours. Over the next 24 hours. A different elsewhere. Over the next 24 hours. A differewill elsewhere. Over the next 24 hours. A differewill be elsewhere. Over the next 24 hours. A differewill be cloud where. Over the next 24 hours. A differewill be cloud. Here. Over the next 24 hours. A differewill be cloud. Therell be there will be cloud. Therell be outbreaks of rain as well. Not outbreaks of rain as well. Not everywhere, the time, but everywhere, all the time, but some significant rain could build places by the build up in places by the weekend. Pressure at the weekend. Low pressure at the moment to the northwest of scotland. Trailing scotland. A number of trailing weather bringing a lot of weather fronts bringing a lot of cloud to the uk for the rest of thursday friday. Those thursday and into friday. Those outbreaks rain continuing outbreaks of rain continuing over wales into the over parts of wales into the midlands, england, midlands, Northern England, Northern Ireland, southern scotland. Initial band of rain clearing from far of clearing from the far north of scotland that away by scotland that pushed away by a strong wind. And its going to strong wind. And its going to be night everywhere with be a warm night everywhere with that wind and the cloud temperatures many places not temperatures in many places not falling much below 15 degrees. Then we start off friday with those cloudy conditions, the breezy conditions as well. Plenty of brightness actually, for central and northern scotland and much better day compared with thursday and certainly saturday. But for much of Northern Ireland into southern scotland later, as well as Northern England, rain will persist through day. To persist through the day. Its to the were going persist through the day. Its to the the were going persist through the day. Its to the the warmth were going persist through the day. Its to the the warmth building going persist through the day. Its to the the warmth building and|g see the warmth building and increasingly high temperatures through the weekend are expected. But for scotland, certainly its going to be a wet start to the weekend that rain really building up through saturday in the first part of sunday. Western parts of scotland at risk of seeing 150mm of very different of rainfall. A very different story for the rest of the uk and certainly across the southern half and well half of england and wales. Well see temperatures into the us, gb news is the top story this hour. A man who broke into Windsor Castle armed with a loaded crossbow with the intent to kill the queen been the late queen has been sentenced to nine years in jail for the crime of treason. John jaswant wander for the crime of treason. John jaswanithe wander for the crime of treason. John jaswanithe grounds wander for the crime of treason. John jaswanithe grounds for1der for the crime of treason. John jaswanithe grounds for two hours around the grounds for two hours on Christmas Day while on Christmas Day 2021, while the late in late queen was still in residence. Bailey residence. The old bailey heard today encouraged today hed been encouraged by an Artificial Intelligence virtual girlfriend thousands of messages. Exchanged thousands of messages. The shail was the judge said shail was non psychotic and therefore culpable when he devised his plot but had lost touch with reality and became psychotic by the time he carried it out. The the time he carried it out. The coach driver in the wirral bus crash has been described as having suffered an event at the wheel before the incident, which killed both him and a 15 year old girl. A Coroners Court in liverpool heard today cctv footage from inside the coach cabin has been examined. It shows the driver , david shows the driver, david shrimpton, suddenly slumped to the left while hes driving. 54 the left while hes driving. 54 people were on the bus when it then overturned on the m 53 last friday. Sir keir starmer has revealed an extra 700,000 urgent dental appointments would be introduced under a Labour Government in plans to improve the nations oral health. The party would also introduce supervised tooth brushing in schools across england in order to tackle preventable tooth decay in children. People in most need of treatments would be prioritised under proposals aimed at rescuing nhs dentistry. The plans would be financed. Labour says by using £111 million