wreck, a dumpster fire, that's the media consensus on president biden's frail and feeble performance against donald trump in the debate and the striking are the liberal supporters of the president and new york times and paul biden it's time to drop out. paul crewingman, the oldest president of my adult life needs to drop out. it's a good man and good president, he must bow out of the race. and the times editorial page striking the biggest blow saying the president should overlook his age and infirm with his own eyes and critics said he made numerous false statements and it was biden's burden to push back and he largely failed on ukraine. >> are putin's terms acceptable to you? >> first of all, our veterans and soldiers can't stand this guy. >> if you take a look at what trump did in ukraine. this guy told ukraine, told trump do whatever you want. do whatever you want. >> he was trying to describe trump telling a nato leader if the country didn't pay its full share, he'd tell putin do whatever you want. and sometimes the president just looked lost. >> making sure we're able to make every single solitary personnel jill for what i've been able to do with the covid -- excuse me with dealing with everything we have to do with -- look -- if -- we finally beat medicare -- >> thank you, president biden. president trump. >> that's right. he did beat medicare, he beat it to death. >> owe biden wanted to change the dynamic of the race and i'm howard kurtz and this is media buzz. >> that was not what we needed from joe biden is it was personally painful and it was pained.ed. >> the from the moment he opened his mouth answering the first question, america looked and said this man should not be reelected. >> president biden at times was inaudible and at times inarticulate and didn't land a punch or counter punch and didn't give a free show. >> they're not hiding their discussions about how they get joe off the ticket. >> joe could not land a thought not even in the closing statements, which is something -- that's the easiest part. i had a gut feeling i'm not ready to give up on joe biden. >> democrats in full freak out mode and they saw what they've been obscuring. howard: i'm seeing a lot of criticism of the media and why didn't you tell us biden was this bad. what are you covering up for him? is that fair? >> absolutely fair and reviewing the headlines 10 days or so old and cheap fake narrative and the white house tried to put out and karine jean-pierre said they were misleadingly edited and manipulated images of biden stumbling around and seeming out of it. then the media had headlines saying the gop is fooling you with them and nbc politifact and washington post and cnn over and over again and saw for ourselves that was totally spin on half of the white house and now undeniable and no longer trying to deny it and the media played a huge roll in this cover up of biden's mental state. howard: as someone that covered joe biden and going for the press and doing so few interviews, we now know why. most of us hang out with biden to penetrate the inner circle or his mental sharpness. >> i'm one of the people that got to interview him and it's in private with the president and before he was president and, you know, i have to say, i'm understanding why we have a 52% divorce rate in this country. and the reason for that is not because of the political differences and on knee jerk reactions for americans and one bad night, throw him out. and honestly, it just kills me that the media is talking about that but not the three huge, great speeches, great appearances that the president had in less than 48 hours after that. you know, a barack obama had a really terrible first debate. he was president. hillary clinton and john kerry won all three debates according to every single digits poll and that's people on both sides of the aisle and neither one of them became president. i could take up all the time, howie, we don't have all the time. but for the media, the media is not hiding anything. but for the media like the new york times to call out joe biden and say he must step down, new york times doesn't decide that, the voters decide that. howard: the difference with obama having a terrible first debate and mitt romney, he was 51 years old and the bad night doesn't get it and not denying it and jen psaki said terrible debate by biden. now, you made reference to other appearances and the day after the debate and much more forceful president biden was at a rally in north carolina. let's show that. >> i don't speak as smoothly as i used to and i don't debate as well as i used to, but i know what i do know. i know how to tell the truth. howard: i don't know where that guy was the night before. rob by, i thought if -- robbie, i thought if biden turned a b-and would have a low bar and it would be the worst in the history of televised debates and what do you make of democrats saying or whispering he should step aside? >> yeah, they're talking about can he even finish this term of his presidency being discussed and so many americans and this isn't just partisan republicans and this is democrats having a majority of them had expressed a concern before this debate he was too old to serve another term. you know, we've all had family members, neighbors, friends who turn that corner in their elderly years and deserve respect and good treatment and should not have to work so hard in their lives and that's the kind of thing about it and it's painful to have this person entering the stage in his life and having us all be able to see now what kind of state that's in and not only does he have the most important job in america right now, but we'll subject him to this for another four years. on some level it's id logical and you can't do this. howard: biden aids telling axios from 4:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. he's very engaged and after those hours he's more likely to have verbal miscued and misspeak. that's their positive spin. >> think about that. howard: you're always serving as president. leslie, meanwhile, when you have the likes of tom friedmann and maureen in the new york times saying biden has to step aside, and they love him. this is not a right wing attack and these are his people. the voters that decide but these are all people who ordinarily would be strong supporters or were strong supporters of this president. >> the number of democrats that canceled new york times subscription not just since this debate but felt that maureen doud was in bed with donald trump not literally, she's not a friend of biden or a democrat and i'm sure she'll call me later. robbie, with all due respect and i was on the phone with democrats talking about this, how do you know what they were saying? look, are there a small group of people having these whispers? yes? but the power houses in our party, and the people that have the experience whether it's a nancy pelosi, my governor gavin newsom, new senator j john fedderman. he said chill the blank out. throw the baby out with the bath water. howard: next segment. nbc reports that joe biden and his family at camp david today which was previously scheduled and they're expect toddies cuss the future of reelection campaign and source responded to nbc that any discussion about the campaign is expected to be informal or after thought. not a hard denial. >> how would they not talk about it? it's the elephant in the room and they need to talk about why they waited until now -- you know, they set themselves up for this big moment with joe biden because he's done fewer tv interviews than any other president, he's not been so available to the media, he's not been put in a confrontational interview space. howard: barely done that. >> yeah, that was a huge mistake and he was the incumbent president and don't run real primary processes when the president is running for reelection and seeps like a mistake to not debate dean phillips or rfk when he was running as a democrat and knocked the debate out of the park and said well, he'll be the candidate. we would have 9/11 known back then is that this decline is evievident. howard: leslie, the media fact checkers are saying that donald trump in the spotlight, the harsh spotlight pushed a lot of falsehoods such as every legal expert wanted roe overturned and cost of food has doubled, tripled, and quadrupled. wasn't it biden's job to take on any misstatements or more? being told we lost leslie temporarily and throwing that question to you. trump misstatements and changing the subject and going for the demographic. >> yeah, trump is prone to exaggeration and a competent debater would have reigned him in and confronted some of the things he said. biden was totally unable to do that. biden started talking about abortion, which polls suggest is the democrat's best issue. only one where biden is polling better than trump and biden himself pivoted and brought up an illegal immigration crime with sexual assault and that horrible thing that happened recently. that's his best issue. rhetorically, that was the worst move in any debate. he was unable to press trump. we're talking about how bad biden did. trump did well in that debate, even independent of biden's performance and trump sounded restrained and disciplined and trump got good advice on this debate and sounded upset on your behalf. howard: leslie, glad you're back. cbs poll just out, postdebate, asked about having mental and cognitive health to serve, 72% said joe biden does not. that is up from 65% before the debate so that's -- isn't that worrisome? >> it's worrisome if those people don't vote for joe biden because the next question would be would you still vote for him based on this? this is what we do with polls. we pick and choose the questions we ask and answers we want to present. you know, again, i don't know where i cut out, guys and by the way, nobody cut my feed. but, you know, look, 27 million, less than 24 hours out of five foals, four have biden up and one has trump and cnn focus group had eight switch to biden is latino community and black community and native american community and seeing the numbers go up. you know, so i'm sorry, but again, the voter haves to decide and we have mistakes or lack of enthusiasm and the voters aren't showing that right now with money or polling. howard: got to get a break. top trump campaign official. when we come back, how much would the media vet a nominee who might replace joe biden? there are so many tina feys i could be. so i hired body doubles. mountain climbing tina at a cabin. or tree climbing tina at a beach resort. nice! booking.com booking.yeah. in our family there was a passion for glass making that's passed down through the generations. we stood on some pretty broad shoulders to get to where we are at today. on ancestry i was able to actually put together our family tree. each person is a glass worker. that's why we do what we do. we can't help it. the glass blowing - that's a part of our dna. it's in my blood, it's in my history. it's my job to make sure that this shop makes it to the next generation. introducing, ned's plaque psoriasis. he thinks his flaky red patches are all people see. otezla is the #1 prescribed pill to treat plaque psoriasis. otezla can help you get clearer skin. don't use otezla if you're allergic to it. serious allergic reactions can happen. otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. some people taking otezla had depression, suicidal thoughts, or weight loss. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. live in the moment. ask your doctor about otezla. howard: the cnn debate moderators took plenty of pregame pretty schism from the trump camp and they asked tough questions of both candidates. >> the question was will you accept the results of the election, regardless of who wins, yes or no, please? >> if it's a fair and legal and good election, absolutely. >> how do you address concerns about your capability to handle the toughest job in the world well into your 80s? >> well, first of all i spent half my career being criticized being the youngest person in politics. howard: let me get a brief assessment from both of you starting with robbie. what did you think of the job the moderators have done? >> i've not shied away from criticizing cnn in the past so believe me when i say that was a flawlessly moderated debate and give them both a+ and hi a lot of concerned with the format and ability to mute mics and thought it was going to be a debate between trump and the moderators and didn't interrupt and asked tough questions and when they didn't answer that question, they asked again and polite and not trying to fact check everything and it was what we needed as viewer especially trying to make this important choice. great job to them. no notes. howard: when i interviewed donald trump, this is why i wasn't surprised he was disciplined. i would say that's not true and try to follow up. it's different on an interview program, on a debate, your job is to ask the questions and get out of the way. the debate debates hearing from the candidates and the responsibility to push back and circle back and ask that question again and in that respect, i feel they absolutely failed. howard: the cnn moderators failed and they would have been criticized if they seem to be overly pressing one candidate and that's president trump and speculation about what would happen if president biden decided to step aside. i see that as very unlikely and only he can make that decision and here for example, but, you know, party leaders are standing by him for example is your governor, leslie, gavin newsom. >> i've spent a lot of time with him, i know joe biden and what he's accomplished in the last three and a half years and i know what he's capable of, and i know his vision, and i have no trepidation. howard: you know he's dieing to run if there was an opening. robbie, if the convention were to pick gavin newsom or gretchen whitmer or kamala harris and only has to run a two-month campaign, is there an element of unfairness to that? >> that would be a crazy thing to do and high risk move and the point is now that biden seems so likely to lose, why not do something risky if you're in this position. now, i agree and think it's still very unlikely and there's no way it'll happen unless joe biden goes from it and people are a little less and who's they? joe biden is they and the leader in the modern system and the leader of the democratic party is joe biden and he'd have to say that's a good idea and sounds like him and his family want him to continue this some would say farce but it's coming on. howard: the media role here, leslie, wouldn't they have to conduct an all out vetting of the substitute nominee and plays out for months and would be a compressed time frame. >> oh, god, we don't have to have that and let me be clear, 1968 was a horror show for democrats and republicans gained control of the presidency till 1992 and something a lot of people don't remember if they don't remember their homework and go back and look is bill clinton was the democratic nominee and there were conversations to replace him because he was polling far below george bush and it would be a disaster. not just for the democratic party. by the way, when you have republicans talking about the 25th appointment or have republican -- 25th amendments or talking about replacing joe bind, if he was that guaranteed to lose, which robbie is so assured he'll lose. if he was that guaranteed to lose, republicans would be like kim him on the ticket. howard: robbie didn't agree to the bet, let the record show. if it were, i'm speculating here, you know, gretchen whitmer and they have records to defend and thank you both so much for coming by this sunday. up next, a former biden white house insider and signs it ♪ o expect! turn shipping to your advantage. keep it simple...with clear, upfront pricing. with usps ground advantage®. ♪ howard: joining us now is the one time biden world insider michael arosa and first lady jill biden and special assistant to the president. how much heat have you taken from your former colleagues for criticizing the campaign or suggesting that joe biden was losing his mental sharpness? >> phil, quickly, i've never criticized the age but have been critical of the campaign strategy and white house and decision to sort of bubble wrap him over the last year. you can't run for president by duck and cover and can't run for president by not engaging with the media and that's where i've been very critical and they've not appreciate it had. howard: how have you expressed lack of appreciation? >> hurtful and painful ways planting stories with tabloids and these are people that were like family to me. if people were discussing the hard truths a long time ago and saying things i was saying about his media engagement, all of a sunday i stayed on that mess on msnbc and cnn. they're all saying it now. howard: i've been saying for a couple of years he's too shielded from the press and axios reported that white house aids and butlers kept from biden to not see his condition and these people that work there had were shocked by the debate. does that sound right to you? >> i read the report and, yeah, it sounds right to me. that's what i refer to about that bubble wrap. i think the biden people have established a sort of insular shield around him. howard: even extending to the people that work there, many of them. >> yeah, i read that the permanent staff at the white house that were really shocked about it. now, again, look, they care about the president. they love the president. i understand that, but this is a public facing job, and he didn't get as far as he did and successful as he did by hiding from people or the press. you know him. maureen wrote about this for a long time. howard: he used to love talking to reporters but that was a long time ago. how do you see jill biden's role on canceling her husband on whether he should or shouldn't step aside? >> jill biden is not going to save democrats by telling them they've both had their own aspirations and own careers their whole lives and don't stand in each other's way and don't stand in each other's shadow. they are supportive of each other when one wants to do something. if he didn't want to run for president, she'd be the first person in the car heading to the beach and very little reason to come back to dc. she doesn't use her office to push her own agenda or policies in the way other first ladies have. it's a surrogate operation. it's for him. howard: people saying jill has to do it. >> it's unfair to put that weight on her, but she doesn't like politics and doesn't lobby politicians or like being lobbied by politicians. howard: does joe biden care about the new york times and editorial page, does he care about that? >> of course he does. they read the paper every day and i'm sure it stings and they're working with us. i'm sure he cares about what the political elites and the paper they've delivered to their house every day and hates it. howard: thank you. next on media buzz, top trump official critical of the former president and vp stakes. senior adviser jason miller isej on deck. ♪ they created a boat that was more affordable... tracker, the world's #1 best selling fishing and pontoon boats powered by mercury, proudly built in missouri and sold factory direct at bass pro shops and select dealers. for as little as 5 dollars a day... you can own a brand new tracker and make lifelong memories of your own. bass pro shops, voted america's best outdoor retailer. save even more and support conservation when you join the club. howard: we have jason miller, senior adviser to president trump's campaign. you couldn't think joe biden would deliver an abysmal performance and gift from the gods for you? >> i knew that president trump was going