Our moment by moment coverage of Trump Criminal Trial continues this hour. Speak to the defense team is crossexamining the prosecutions first witness, david packer. His testimony has focused on a catch and kill schemes to bury stories about donald trump. It is also revealing negative stories about other celebrities including politicians as well. Hello, everyone this is outnumbered. I am dagen mcdowell. Joining us today, dagen mcdowell. Fox news contributor, tammy bruce. Fox news contributor Senior Fellow at the American Enterprise institute and former speechwriter to president george w. Bush, Marc Thiessen. And we have with the with the kara fredrick, from the heritage foundation. Emily first lets go to live to eric who was outside the u. S. Supreme court and Lower Manhattan eric . Hello, everyone. You know this Prosecution Case rests largely on the theory that trump wanted to buy the stories of women who had said that they had intercourse with him. When it comes to mcdougall, something new happened this morning. The former publisher revealed in court under crossexamination that no, the former president did not want to buy the story. That is what is going on right now. The crossexamination is happening with trump attorney, he is trying to show the holes in the prosecutions case. David packer who was the former friend has been describing how he and donald trump arranged to buy the negative stories that get hurt donald trump and his president ial campaign back in 2016. He paid a hundred and 50,000 to buy the rights. Former playboy t she had a nearly yearlong affair with donald trump. But they justified that donald trump did not want to purchase that story and did not want to go through because he had told him that the news always gets out. In the crossexamination by Donald Trumps lawyer, they are trying to show that if he did not want to buy the story why would he be prosecuted for allegedly orchestrating a election and if you have scheme to. They said they had swap stories and theories for years. They trying to establish that there were just trying to do a routine and not prompted any connection to the camping. Yesterday he testified that the enquirer published negative stories, but today he admitted that those articles were not new that they had appeared and in some cases have been taken from other publications. Teca also said he had stories that killed about elected affairs from Arnold Schwarzenegger and tiger woods and chicago mayor and others. So when he came knocking wanted the money for her story, what it really was is to restart her career because it would help her up your Magazine Covers and the fact that david becker today said that she did appear on the cover of mens journal one of the publications he owned and that in fact she did not want her story told. So the big question here is concerning the prosecutions case in the prosecutor, they have said that the former president orchestrated this campaign and connected it to the election, but so far a lease with the first witness so far, there has been no direct evidence at all. That former President Trump, told david packer to kill any of the stories connected to his campaign. He has just testify that the former president was angry when the information got out never claimed at all that that was connected in any way to the president ial election back in 2016 that undercut at the prosecutions case. Emily back to you. Emily thank you so much, now lets bring in Constitutional Law Expert and George Washington university professor, not break this down for us a little further. What does this mean . Is a breakdown in the courtroom, they have a witness that is disassembling in front of them. The prosecution never revealed to the jury that david packer had actually killed stories for other celebrities that he had been working on stories two decades before the election with donald trump. That he was oppressing and not it is only getting worse yesterday it was really bad. In terms of the crossexamination for the prosecution. Today, it is much worse. To hear him say that donald trump did not want to purchase the story. Yesterday when he asked him about reimbursing he said he did not know anything about that. He has already been complaining about the lack of any cognizable crime here, but there is also age of one billing connection trump himself, that is what were really seeing here, a lot of discussions with Michael Cohen who is going to give us a really memorable moment where he gets on the stand. He is actually going to look at that jury and say, basically, could my former client in jail for following my legal advice. Speak to jonathan, at the end of the day, the burden is on the prosecution to your point to bring this to convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt, my qn for you is, as of now, have they met the burden and is a day that are failing at presenting or is it that defenses are doing a really good job of showing the holes . I think the defense is doing a really good job, but i have to say that this is collapsing on its own way. You just have to stand back and let it fall. Just asking simple questions that the juried would want to know, it has left serious damage for the prosecution. These are not strange tangential questions, these are questions you wouldve expected the prosecution to ask as just the completion of their line of questioning. Such as whether or not donald trump was the only one you did this for, when did you start to do this . Unless he was trying to get Arnold Schwarzenegger and tiger woods elected president , and one of them could not be then the Prosecution Theory is really becoming something that is easy to mock. What i do not understand is how the judge could take this farce unfold in a courtroom, because at the end of the day he has to give instructions to this jury. Hows he going to instruct them . There is no crime. Is he going to say that this is a federal election crime . Because it wasnt. And if the federal government declined the charge, donald trump wasnt even asked to pay a single fine, so how is he going to get that instruction . But if it is not a crime what are we doing here . Emily that is absolutely right, i think Many Americans have that same question. Thank you so much for joining us today. Bringing you back to the couch, lets talk with you, Marc Thiessen, to jonathans point, bigger cases have been overturned instantly met their challenges on the basis of one erroneous jury instruction. Even if they are not sure what theyre saying but may be a lot of people have the same questions. Marc this week may may end up being a Turning Point the election, he may have immunity from the Supreme Court an acquittal in this first trial which would be quite a stunning event. It seems that the Prosecution Case is falling apart, but why is he even being prosecuted to begin with . Hes been accused of suppressing a negative news story. If that was the crime then every Press Secretary in america would be prosecuted, why not prosecute bill clinton for suppressing the Bimbo Corruption he hired teams of lawyers to come through in their histories and their intimate lives and paint them in a negative light and again why dont we prosecute joe biden for suppressing The Hunter Biden Laptop Story which is a much mysterious thing, and he lied about her by saying it was a russian collusion. And conspired with the fbi and the social Media Companies to suppress that. Why is that not a crime if this is a crime . Emily i love the idea of your being a d. A. Mark. But what do you make of this . Kara i can tell you why he is in that courtroom because it is political. Because Letitia James they all ran on the promise to get donald trump in no uncertain terms. I you coming back to the nbc poll, that talks about how donald trump is a head when it comes to registered voters, but if donald trump were convicted of a family this year, joe biden will pull ahead when it comes to a favorite in the general election. So that is why he is in the courtroom. Emily in the last eight days do you think that theres been any change in that sway in the Public Opinion . Do you see people congealing my seeing that this is a mockery of the criminal Justice System . Dagen something jumped out at me, and it was something someone said yesterday, it has been repeated over and over again, but she had said this is a criminal trial and there is no criminal evidence. As of yet. What law did donald trump break . And this is just me thinking out loud, this goes beyond alvin bragg, because he had left his job as the number three in the Justice Department and gave the opening statement, this goes to the mucky democrat party, it goes to the white house and the Bombing Campaign to keep trump front and center in a courtroom. This is a much bigger political play if you will. And a miscarriage and abuse of the Justice System than just one manhattan district attorney. The revelation about david packer, the catch and kill suppressing that stories, neither which are crimes for Arnold Schwarzenegger or even tiger woods, it goes straight to those those are that crime a one are the crimes . What are the families . What are the underlines . There is none. It was about the election, the payments were made in 2017. The election was in 2016. That needs to be hammered home by the defense in the days to come. Without these discussions i would view as a learning about the importance of an objective Point Of View when it comes to what is happening legally. You get it from mark, and you get from andy mccarthy, and despite what they might think about trump, there is an importance to the nature of what is happening here. It is not just a theory that its a fun thing to say, but this is exactly what happens and certain republics. Sometimes they find a crime, it is amazing to me that they havent found a crime for donald trump but they havent. And i think that the larger issue also is that americans do see this for what it is, which is why his approval has gone up. And what got up the tarpaulin when being asked by a person, about whether or not hes indicted, you do not want to say i do not care, i would say that would affect me. I am telling you right now the American People do not like this, it damages the nature of our system in general because he is only surviving because of his money, the argument is, and has been for a while, but many groups in this company, especially the minority groups, this is the kind of hand that is wielded against you when you have no hope of any money. Marc so there would you be less likely to vote for trump if he is convicted, but i would like to see a poll that says if you would vote if you are acquitted, because a call is the view of all these prosecutions. Validating what he has been saying, that this is the legal witch hunt and an effort to destroy him and interfere the election. If he gets acquitted on this it is a huge political one for him. Emily Marc Thiessen for the attorney general. President biden finally says that he will debate trump. Because coming up next. Ur routi. New science shows listerine is 5x more effective than floss at reducing plaque above the gumline. 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Emily President Biden says he will debate trump, ahead of this years election although he said he did not know and what format. Listen. I do not know if you are going to debate your opponent. I am somewhere but i do not know when. But i am happy to debate him. Dagen that was a long interviewing a old man. Marc of course absolutely. So, they are both in new york lets do this. We can turn this set into a debate stage in about half an hour i believe. But, if you cannot debate, then you should not be running for president of the United States if you are not capable of debating. I am not convinced that this is gonna happen. He said four times he would defend taiwan and his staff has walk that back. But if it happens thats great. I think not only should trump debate him. But he should show up at the president ial debate and say hes going to debate speed 27 as well. Lets have him debate all of them. Emily debate would certainly help President Biden avoid the teleprompter. Four more years. However, trump would wipe the floor with joe biden, and that is an insult to mops. Dagen that is right. D emily i didnt take that as any iota of actually can meaning it. He disagrees with whoever speaking around him and i think donald trump should double down on that and continue to have the empty make and open podium next to him like he did in wisconsin and the Campaign Trail when he was available and not being persecuted here in the city. I look forward to seeing him take it at his word. Anytime anyplace to say what they and we will be there. Tammy here in the town, it is interesting, transcripts versus hearing what is said is key. So i am really glad we had that audio because it almost sounds like he couldve said said those words to any question. Like yes, somewhere, are you gonna have dinner tonight . He has somewhere but at some point. It couldve been anything. Now he did debate of course last time and we do see him like in the state of the union, i do not know if its red bull or what it is but as you said, it is a matter of if you cannot do this then you cannot be president but weve seen that. We do not know who it is but its a collective i am sure so he is a mascot. Its like asking the mascot on the Football Field to run the ball. You dont. And so he cant. This is something that they want to hide them from. It worked in 2020 and they think it will work again but now they cannot hide and they cannot lie and if donald trump says hes going to debate him maybe it will be over oatmeal in the morning and his own head. I could be a lot of people, i debate people in my own head right now, so for america if its a problem donald trump or handle it and whatever happens he will be fine. So all the Television Networks early in the month broke statements inviting President Biden and trump to debate. And david wrote an article from the atlantic saying that President Biden spokesperson shea hefner like this. The constitution is not debatable the president does not participate in forms. With the person still under incredible indictment for his attempt to overthrow the constitution. This seems absurd but this administration and that campaign will do anything to keep joe biden away from the stage and from a microphone next to trump i believe. That is exactly right and if this does happen what theyre going to do is they are going to delay delay delay until most of those mailin votes have been casted. Past july when most of the electric have been voted in by mail. So they might do it nominally, but theres not enough uppers in the world to get that man sentiment. But at the same time if they do it it will be very nominal mb surface level and it check in the block when most of americas knowledge that President Biden cannot do this. He is incompetent. Period. They might just cut his mic and say oh, no, we tried it and we did show up but there was a flat trier. Im sure theres going to be some type of sabotage always. Dagen in terms of how that germaphobe has followed. President biden is about to leave new york city, so why did he completely ignore the antiisrael protest. The prohamas protest at columbia . Youre the first to know when high rate debt is stressing your budget. But your familys service has earned you a big advantage. The va home loan benefit. With the lower rate newday 100 va cash out loan, you can pay off high rate credit cards and car loans. Thats real money you can use to take care of your family and home. Oh no. Running low . With chewy, always keep their bowl full. Save 35 on your first autoship order. Get the food they love. Delivered again and again. [thud] well done, viv. You got the presents, the balloons and the raptor cake. Now, how about something to put a smile on your face . 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