>> jesse: i am jesse watters along with judge jeanine pirro, harold ford jr., sandra smith and will cain, it's 5:00 in new york city, and this is "the five." ♪ ♪ ron desantis and gavin newsom throwing down in the epic red versus blue state debate on "hannity" the governor's talking trash for months and finally getting the chance to hammer each other's record face- face-to-face. it's because they taxed too much, they regulate too much, they have a political agenda, they have lost a lot of companies. >> a 21 state population combined, the fifth largest economy in the world. >> he had the kids locked out of school because of the teachers union, that's having a generational impact. speak of the last guy you want to talk to on the interview is immigration. >> lying to migrants promising them jobs and housing, sending them to an island, martha's vineyard prince because this is where they plop the human that are found on the streets of san francisco. >> jesse: also taking some vicious personal shots at each other. >> i can handle it, i'm used to bullies coming you are nothing but a bewley. >> trying to mask the failures. >> you are trying to play political gain so that you can out tromp trump, and by the way, how's that going for you, ron? who are down 41 points in your own home state. >> he is throwing stuff out to see what sticks against the wall, this is a slick slippery politician. >> i will take joe biden add a hundred versus ron desantis any day of the week at any age. >> jesse: trading jabs over their future political ambitions. >> when are you going to drop out and at least give nikki haley a shot to take down donald trump and the nomination? she laid you out. >> you will not admit it. >> all right, gentlemen. >> i don't know how much i can say this, he is making it up with the shadow campaign. >> what they want to do is take the california model and do that nationally. >> there is one thing in closing that we have in common is neither of us will be the nominee for our party in 2024. >> jesse: judge jeanine pirro, i want you to get this off your chest. >> judge jeanine: he is a mean-spirited petty guy. [laughter] obviously greasy gavin, that's my new name for him. the thing that i have found most offensive was one that really did not have a lot to do a substance is when he interrupted ron when he was talking about joe biden and the teachers union and kamala harris. any inter-update, i don't know if we have that sound, guys, where he says by the way, it's not kamala harris, it's -- it's madame vice president to you. stop a insulting the woman. i mean, talk about petty. but then the thing is that every time they brought up the statistics the senses, the cdc, he made -- sean hannity made gavin newsom the liar that he has. the taxes in california, that too we leave in california, and then telling people that you have created jobs because you are allowing them to return to the jobs that you locked them out of unconstitutionally during the lockdown is a straight out lie. so the bottom line is, here is a guy who destroyed the city of san francisco, became the governor of the state of california, now he has destroyed this state of california wants to be president of the united states. i think that people saw him hurry petty slimy guy. >> jesse: did he win on style or substance or neither? >> harold: good to see will and sandor at the table, a couple of things, i thought both of them did well last night. i thought some of the facts as it relates to mr. ron desantis states, he was able to get some of those things out around covid and taxes that i thought that governor newsom was able to get a lot of things out about his state. i do think some of the numbers around the people that have moved there and jobs being created we don't get the full picture and i thought the both of them tried to share that vision. we do not get a real vision -- we did not understand how it would translate to making president. i thought sean did a great job of making sure this was about the states -- giving both of the governors an opportunity whose states have been in the spotlight rightly so after enduring covid, but how they responded and what resilience either economy is showing. so i thought that was positive, now to your question about the style, i thought that governor newsom, who is a good-looking guy and presents well and presents in a strong way found his better of governor desantis and some of those exchanges, because he for whatever reason seem to be a little bit more prepared, where i thought governor desantis was prepared was he countered with substance many times and i thought that in many ways allowed the counter and the balance to be struck. but i thought that two most telling and revealing a memorable lines, we showed one of them where he said neither of us will be the nominee in 2024. i think that sandra reacted a little bit and republicans have to realize from a point of a national level, this issue of women's health and reproductive rights and abortion as we simply call it, this issue is not going away. and i think at the national party is unable and republicans are unable to get a better answer than what's governor desantis gave last night, i think it's going to be hard. >> judge jeanine: at least he gave an answer. >> harold: i won't quarrel on that, but i can look at what the voters are saying in three weeks ago even kentucky and ohio, two republican states voters said that abortion was a big issue for them. so overall i get them both be pluses, patriotic and passionate, and other will be the nominee. >> will: i'm concerned, because i think that gavin newsom is a very effective, prolific, easy, sociopathic liar. and i think that he does an excellent job of lying. i think ron desantis won the debate because he had reality and facts on a side, but gavin newsom would have you believe last night that they california, economy is booming. people are moving from florida to california, that it is the most open state during covid, he would have you believe a completely false reality that i do think ron desantis was capable of pushing back on, but gavin newsom does it with such ease and i'm not concerned with people that already like desantis or trump voters, not even concerned with gavin newsom voters or joe biden voters, i am concerned with casual news watcher, casual voters and all they see is that slick authority. i don't know if it's true or not, but at some stat that is possible to parse, full of numbers into your point, judge, full of moralizing as well, how would you dare demean lgbt community, they are still alive, random stat 3,000 books and then moralized about the meaning people in the casual viewer might just walk away from that slick presentation going, that guy sounds like he knows what he's talking about. >> sandra: that's why it's a bait and ron desantis showed up with facts. when you present facts like gas prices almost five bucks in california, just over $3 in florida, you look at the economy in florida, much different situation, you got people paying $5,400 per capita taxes over 10,000 in california, you have the deficit soaring in california $31 billion florida is running a surplus of over 17 billion. yet this population migration which is really easy for someone like ron desantis to fall back on. and i think we all heard it multiple times, but 454,000 people left florida between 2021-2022. 750,000 left california and went to florida, perhaps the line of the night was a story that hook, line, and sinker, ron desantis brought up and he was talking to a gentleman who fled california from florida that happened to be gavin newsom's father-in-law, the timing on that was pretty spectacular, who won the night? voters will certainly decide, the american public will decide. i think that there were some really interesting substantive moments and we all win for this conversation happening in the first place, for this debate even happening, kudos to sean hannity, great job. i think where some really substantive debates and i think people learn something about each person, each governor. >> jesse: kudos to sean and harold ford jr. who said that gavin newsom was handsome. and i respect your bravery for coming out and saying that. >> harold: are you trying to say something? >> jesse: you said i love you. >> harold: i love you more. >> jesse: dirty democrats got busted censoring conservatives and just admitted they are ready to do it again. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ it's where we gather as a family. it's where we experience the excitement of opening day. it's where we caught our personal best. and this tree is where it all began. this christmas start traditions under your tree... share the tradition of visiting santa's wonderland at bass pro shops and cabela's. and get your free photo with santa. bass pro shops and cabela's. why choose a sleep number smart bed? 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>> sandra: jesse, are you concerned about what you just heard? >> jesse: i am, big brother used to just want to listen to us, now they want to tape our mouths shut, 35% of our mouths, what do you imagine if this was uta speech tax? that's what it feels like. i get to say 65% of what i i think, but the government gets to take the rest? no, no, no. and i'm not saying that thet governmentsa is into tyranny, bt i think they aret comfortable with it, because they've already censored and gagged and arrested donald trump, they are trying to replace me with a robot, they are tryingo re to boycott our companies, so at a certain point it makes me think, they are not. into democracy, because the best part about democracy is we arevi giving these politicians power ngto represent us, we are not giving them power over us.av they work for us. we have power over them. in the supreme court made it the clear, the constitution has made it clear, you can't abridge free speech, and the democrats are out on live television saying let's go! this is crazy, they are calling at this information but it'sin actually just g a conversation e are al l having. we used to have a great conversation, and the colonial times he would have these publishing houses that woulddicu print ridicule against the church or slavery or the cane and it would have this great conversation and then we had tel television and then they had these tv license three media corporations, and now we just haveicen the internet, so thee governmentth can just go through the backdoor of the internet and hit kill switches. no, that's why i'm going to start street preaching. >> sandra: we look forward to that.d thjudge, are you concerned thiss happening more and more? and and to matt's point, on bothudge sides? speed on what these people are saying is that the government has the ability to skehewsp americans views based upon their owewrican politics.nd and what they are talking about is the 2019 and 2020 during the presentational won presidential election we saw it happen, we saw the heads of the fbi and our intelligence community say, you know, that the laptop was russian disinformation, but what was most concerning was that they said it wassian not just ie united states with the fbi, the cia, homeland security, that it was with the u.k. as well. and if you think back in 2016, who did hillary clinton go to to get to russian disinformation on donald trump? she went to christopher steele who was rista spy in the u.k., o it's not just in the united states, it is with our so-called partners inai great britain. but thisn. guy dan goldman is dangerous, because he thinks that taking away 35% of free speech is okay because he is couching it as the terms of the company, which is nonsense, it is b.s. and he is saying that that laptop is really -- that hard drive may not be legitimate, that it may have been manipulated because it might've been manipulated. well, there might be martians up there watchinglate us right nowt because it may be does not mean that it is, and unless you show , actual manipulation, you canny trouy to con the american public into thinkinic tg that that hard drive is notth a real hard driva especially when hunter biden admitted it wards his. >> sandra: and denying my laptop, did that surprise you by the representative of congress? >> judge jeanine: it did adi little bit. i love exchanges like this, with the four congressional oversight committees, because i think when you get two smart people with fact-based argumentspl going bak an, thd forth, they were yelline got a little noisy, but it was informative noisy, substantive noisy and i think that shellenberger, at least what i saw got the better of congressman golden, and by thema substance of what they wern,eof wdebating. every 15, 20 years coming us to be every 30, 40, we would go isthrough episodes where we were really probe and want to understand and examine how hogovernment might be pressuring individuals or institutions to say certaisan things are not sayingwe certain things, we sout in the civil rights era where people were eavesdropped on, because we thought they would be threats to the country as they were fighting for people'snd freedoms, and it's at balance of everl y calibration comes every5 ten, 15, 20 years, and in that sense we will get a big one next year is the court takes up these case which will determine what are the limits of the government can exert on companies or individuals and asking them to regulate or for that matter tame or expend their speech, if these allegations are right that theeh government -- and it seems like some of them are, that the government was in the business of trying to tell themss o what to do were tryingo tell them what information was okay and what information is permissible, that's wrong andan i'm glad that the hearing isak taken place anind these are the oversight efforts of thewh americanet people deserve, whetr you agree wie or disagree we she agree that no one's right to speak whether i agree with you or disagree with you should beli infringeked upon because i don't like what you're saying. >> i ayingm supportive of last,h becauseae i appreciate how you said over time it might've been ideologically, there could've been a time wherideoe the rights the one -- >> i'm just saying it -- >> but here is what i think it>> think is undefeatable right now, the regime of censorship in this country in the current modern moment of americans being driven wholeheartedly by the left openly and in this hearing, democrats are now the party ofhr censorship, maybe one day that will not bmocre the case emma bt that is certainly the case today.ne and we know the news that the biden administrationsu is pressuringri you to take peoplef any hesitancy about the vaccinen when demand toe supply to taket down in 2021. and by the way, the left as an ideology generally does notfree embrace the free speech to the same level as thh e rightal globallyly, but look at the u.k, at look at europe, canada i am offended by what you say there are four i should be able to shut you up. hal the only defense for thisch country which is the hallmark o free speech in the world as the americanght. right, i'm not sayi trust him for here to eternity, but as a proponent of free speech i do know this, if you have faith, if you need this part of the american experiment to last, you need the american right to believeast, this. i will watch them like a hawk, but the left, harold, is lost, gone, they believe in censorship, not theorsh first amendment. >> judge jeanine: so said the court on its way to the supreme court. that is a circuit court of appeals has ruled that that's the case. >> harold: no one has a monopoly on stupidity orst encroaching on people's rights, the left needs to be calibrated, but i will remind you that just a year ago we had a speechti conversation abouton whether peoplele s should be able to teh certain things in class and people said no, i don't want that, they thought theirth free speech rights were being infringed upon, i'm saying let's let it all out there and have this debate that happen beforeth congress, you are right, what the left has done is wrong and it should be corrected, i don't care if it's a rider or the left integrating it good >> i appreciate rig that. and i believe in free speech, even the speech that i hate, and i'm terrified for the future of the phasede sp amendment. >> go rangers.t it's big i knew your jump on the bandwagon. >> sandra: up next,s. george santos getting thrown out of congress and it could be a bad sign for other crooked politicians. ♪ ♪ when moderate to severe ulcerative colitis takes you off course. put it in check with rinvoq, a once-daily pill. when i wanted to see results fast, rinvoq delivered rapid symptom relief and helped leave bathroom urgency behind. check. when uc tried to slow me down... i got lasting, steroid-free remission with rinvoq. check. and when uc caused damage rinvoq came through by visibly repairing my colon lining. check. rapid symptom relief... lasting steroid-free remission... ...and the chance to visibly repair the colon lining. check, check, and check. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers,