>> dana: it's 5:00 in new york city and this is the five. tonight two governors gets the chance to settle one of the biggest political debates -- which state doesn't vest? florida's ron desantis and california's gavin newsom facing off in the red versus blue showdown we've all been waiting for. sean hannity monitoring the big event at 9:00 p.m. eastern. it's a chance for high-profile leaders to reshape the political landscape and cement their status as the future of their parties. they have been trading shots for months over who runs their state better. >> what he's done in california, causing a mass exodus out of the state. you've seen cities collapsed there, that is what he would want to do for this entire country. >> i would tell him to pack up and wait a few years. actually do some of the hard work which includes governing, not just identity and culture war. >> we will never surrender to the woke mob. our state is where woke goes to die. >> human beings used as pawns for a guy's political advancement, it's pretty sad and pathetic. >> dana: it's not just policy, they have been exchanging plenty of personal insults too. >> stop pussyfooting around, are you going to throw your hat in the ring and challenged joe? are you going to do it or are you going to sit on the sidelines and chirp? >> he's weakness masquerading as strength. >> i think what california represents is the leftist petri dish. >> folks would have their mouths washed out with soap if they talk like this. >> dana: i imagine that might've been something you've dealt with. >> jesse: never again. i'm excited you know when you go out to dinner and you order your appetizer and your entree and all of a sudden the waitress comes out with a surprise, compliments of the chef. i wasn't expecting this, this is great, you get a debate like this. desantis has an opportunity to separate himself from the pack. this is a good chance for him because it plays to his strengths. he is not one of republicans that likes to attack other republicans -- he hasn't engaged like that. he likes the confrontation, he likes the conflict whether it's the press or another democrat. you could have a bigger contrast than this -- these two states could not be any more office at. you're going to get not as much personal stuff, you're going to get good policy contrast then you're going to see what works and what doesn't. his challenge is going to be told the story -- his story is a better story. stick to it, sell it but you can't let gavin newsom be charming. you have to turn his charm into sleeves. it's a difficult task but no one trust a sleazebag. gavin newsom has to be good but he can't be too good to. he has to be good, he has to establish himself as the heir apparent, as the alternative in case something happens to joe and definitely in 2028 but if he's too good, then you're going to see donors and pundits start drafting him and telling joe biden to clip the campaign and that's going to create a war. i don't think the democratic party wants that right now. newsom though has to not only defend california's record he has to defend joe biden's record. that's tricky. if i were desantis i would try to jam him and make him defend joe biden because newsom has to acknowledge things are rough right now and he has to do it in a way that's honest but also not attack joe biden but say this is how i'm different from joe biden. it's going to take a lot of agility to do that. the guy is slick, he's going to come out with a lot of facts. anything can happen i'm really excited to. >> dana: the facts for florida seem to be if you're looking at raw facts and outcomes in florida are better than in california. >> brian: the numbers look really strong for florida. california lost $55.7 billion in income, florida gained $80 billion in income. unemployment is half of what california is at 4%, florida is at 2.6%. national average on gas is below the national average, california is $4.85. i asked president trump what he thought and will he be watching that she will be watching. he says i hope they have a great evening and wish them well for 28. that's where he stands. the way you describe it is the way you feel before a fight. you can't wait to see what tyson is going to do and holyfield is going to do you can't imagine what it's going to be like to see them together. what i'm most intrigued about is this is a real debate because if you look at the democrat or republican debate, both sides agree with 85% of what they said to. they have to find new wants. some of the background hypocrisy. here it's no this is what i feel about the social issues, this is what i feel about social spending this is what i feel about schooling. dramatically different, it's going to be cathartic to see it hashed out side from this table upstairs on the couch but in front of a national audience. do you think this is a chance for him to set himself apart and become an heir apparent or are you going to challenge him? >> i agree with just about everything that has been said i think jesse's point about how governor newsom is going to be careful, he has to understand if he performs well tonight it will be a catalyst for even more people. >> is that bad? >> i don't think so. i think out of fairness -- >> he can't throw the game. >> i think he was trying to make that point too. both of these guys are emblematic and consistent with that -- the state of the parties. if you look at the data on both sides and ask primary voters, they want someone other than the frontrunner on the republican side, the same is true with mr. biden. democrats want someone other -- it's clear that if ron desantis were performing as well as everyone thought he was going to perform four months ago he probably will not be doing this debate. he needs this, he needs to get before the voters and he certainly wants to make clear if he's not going to be the person in 24 which doesn't look likely, he will be the person that she will have the opportunity. the two of them come from great states, great economies, good weather in both of them. >> brian: do you see the deficit of california? >> harold: i hear you, i'm just saying -- newsom is a crime and homelessness issue he's going to have to address, insurance prices going up in his state and what he's done to address that. in addition, he's been out on the campaign trail nationally because he's been running for president in these had a chance to lay out his vision and that is supported by what he's done in florida and he seems to be slipping in the polling data. i'm going to watch tonight, shawn has done a great job of framing this i'm going to be on a little after commenting on it but i'm going to be interested to see how they go at it and how they talk about their visions in their states. you said as well how they might lead to the contrary, it's what people are going to be looking at to pick up people who don't live in florida and california the majority of watchers and viewers they want to see if these guys can leave the country and they get an opportunity to. >> it is pretty incredible sean hannity had the idea and was able to pull it together. he's a perfect moderator for this moment, a great interview were. no issues -- and there's no audience. which will give both candidates -- both debaters chance to talk about too much interruption. is this important moment for the 2024 campaign? >> i think it could be. i know 2024 is the big talk but i'm watching this from the perspective of governance and the kind of governing we have in this country, 50 different states with 50 different governors in different ways of doing things, california is the number one place moving out -- florida is the number 1 place moving in, california used to be governed by ronald reagan who went on to be one of us presents we have ever had to. i like we are going to see two major political parties go at it from a state perspective and executive level from the states to talk about the way they govern and what they think is best for their people and how that can be emulated on the federal level. weeks and this a lot with senators, we don't get to see governors going at it one on one together very often. florida and california have bigger economies than most countries in the rest of the world, there are big differences between california and florida. i am excited to see the debate aspect of this and to have a longer conversation between two people who are very popular in these places. gavin newsom was recalled, tried to be recalled and came out politically stronger. very charismatic and i think ron desantis is going to have things to handle tonight, he's a tough debater for sure periods before the white house putting kamala harris on the spotlight to defend her boss and it didn't go as planned. ♪ ♪ we're travelling all across america, talking to people about their hearts. how's the heart? 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do you think in your role you are in a position to do that? >> of course, if necessary but there's no need for that. >> brian: that's reassuring. about an hour later, president biden stepping all over her comments by correcting this joke which doesn't seem to be very funny about the nuclear football. >> my marine carries that and has a code to blow up the world. it's not nuclear weapons, is it -- okay. >> while he jokes about armageddon, she's not proving herself to be ready to step into the job. having some serious trouble answering a simple question. >> what should happen to tiktok? >> i'll step back for a moment and to say that one of the things that should keep all of us up at night is the level of disinformation. >> you don't have a specific view on tiktok itself? >> i'm not commenting on that. >> are you one tiktok yourself? >> many of the people in my family are. >> do you tell them to get off? >> you can tell young people and your family all kinds of things. >> that wasn't a "yes" or "no," what would have been the right answer? >> it's hard to want to be the leader of the free world and have no comment on something as consequentialist tiktok. what she said at the end about trying to tell young people, that was relatable and i thought that was very good. she's always going to be asked if joe biden is too old -- she needs a better answer. she needs to have something along the lines of ignore the haters, he's on top of it and move on and drive on to something else. one of the things that she said was -- this was the question about his age and she says it is important we not be seduced into one of the only arguments that side of the aisle has in a way that is intended to distract from the accomplishments -- there's nothing you can land on with that. it was fine for her, i don't know if that answers the mail for their serious polling deficit they have right now. she will be out there campaigning on voting rights as well as misinformation, you heard it they are. they are going to try to make this election a choice between joe biden and the republican nominee. if it is donald trump the whole thing it's going to come down to is do you want stability with a guy we know is 81, do you want stability or chaos? that is going to be the choice they try to have americans make rather than say do you want another four years of the joe biden, kamala harris presidency. >> you just reminded me when she broke into misinformation, told her right before she goes on stage make these points. they tell her -- you should listen to the question see if it's appropriate they probably didn't finish the briefing. if you have -- vivek says you can't ban ticked up that's how you get the young people. is there a harm in saying, making a decision? >> first the question about whether she would tell the american people if something were wrong -- the american people can watch and see the president and his decline which is why democrats are worried about his age. they can see for themselves they don't need the vice president to tell them what is or is not happening with him if there were to be something wrong. on the tiktok issue they clearly believe this is a national security threat because it is banned on federal government devices, a number of governors have banded from devices across the country. they acknowledge it is a threat but they are not willing to acknowledge that threat when it comes to the political side that tiktok affords them because they are using it for young people, not only using it but working with influencers on a number of different projects they are trying to push out to whether it's on the health care or insulation, they watch it closely to see what the young people are talking about and they are worried about not getting those of voters. they are willing to use it as a political tool but despite it being a national security problem while at the same time they acknowledge it should be banned for federal government employees. >> one thing she did -- they use the ron klain quote saying she's getting a hard time, her writings are low because she's a woman and a woman of color. she says because of the media. i have this sound it's very similar to what i said -- watch. >> ron klain says -- you've seen press about yourself over the years, he says he believes your popularity or unpopularity or whatever rating you want to put it as is a function of sexism and racism, that's part of the problem, she doesn't get the credit for all that she has done, do you think that is true? >> are we talking about the media or people? as it relates to the media i'm sure some of that is true. >> jesse: i don't get the credit i deserve because i'm a straight white male it has bothered me my entire life. >> brian: you don't get the credit you deserve. >> jesse: i'm still a rising star. do you remember when she was asked by the media if the president is brain dead, you promise you will tell us? or are you going to keep it a secret? and she goes no, i'll tell you if he is brain dea dead to. the tiktok thing i'll answer it i'm not even a politician. consequential negotiations with the chinese these involve a lot of national security issues when it comes a cybersecurity, election security -- i don't want to get ahead of the president on this issue but we'll have more for you in the next month. instead she says -- she's like i plead the fifth it's so stupid. >> she also was asked the question about her checking boxes, you were picked because you were a woman, woman of color and that's something still lingers. she says i don't understand the question. please pay attention. >> i'm still writing down i thought that was an incredible response she laid out to be able to give out. >> i really should run, this is the ticket. >> i don't understand how when the vice president is in these incredibly important studies and enter sorkin is a serious journalist and had a great conference yesterday, you had to anticipate some of these questions including what are you doing, how do you think about the president's ability -- how do you not say unemployment is down, inflation is coming down, gas prices are down, investment is america -- we are building ships and refrigerators and cars and laptops. we are finding ways to build prescription drugs in america so we aren't relying anywhere else in the world but here. more americans have health insurance and women know they have a right to abortion if joe biden is in office. dana: it's perfect -- it's not that hard to. >> you laid out the predicate for it, this is what they should be saying. she's smart and she is talented but she doesn't have a lot to show for it as we stand here almost three years after they have been -- after they have been in office. i don't understand why you don't go to the border, i don't understand -- she was one of the great attorney generals the country has seen in california. how you don't get on this and she was criticized because they thought she was too tough on crime, how you don't get on the crime issue. talked about dallas having a great police chief, the mayor you've had him on your show switch parties, democrat to map republican because he want to fight crime in a different way, talk about that as one of the great practices in the country and how we can take that national. on the issue of tiktok, say i'm a mother and i'm a father of a young daughter, i'm a mother of young women. we've got to figure out what has happened with these algorithms. and habituate young women to bad habits and bad practices. that is going to be my next task and we are going to get honest and put forth proposals for the country to chew on, this is not hard to. >> brian: being tough on crime is not good for democrats. >> harold: i disagree with y you. >> brian: they don't want to say it. >> dana: if they would say it they would do better because that's their second number 1 -- second number 1? [laughter] she was asked you think israel is following the rules of war, tha