paul: welcome to the journal editorial report. president biden celebrated his 81st birthday as concern grows among democrats that the incumbent president could lose to donald trump in a 2024 rematch. nbc news survey finds biden trailing the former president in a general election matchup for the first time in that poll as his support among younger voters plummet in what could be a warning sign the key group is peeling away amid the israel/hamas war and doubts about his age. the string of bad polling news for the president. karine jean-pierre says the white house is not worried. >> no alarm happening behind the scenes and i'm not going to comment on everybody who has something to say. our perspective is it is not about age. it is about the president's experience which i would put the president's stamina and wisdom and ability to get this done on behalf of the american people against anyone. paul: let's bring in fox news contributor karl rove. the white house press secretary can't say anything else, can she? you were in that hot house for a why all but what do you think about these polls? a year out a lot can change, a lot will change but how seriously should be be taking it? >> there's going to be a run on plastic sheets for christmas present among leaders of the democratic party because there's a reason, these numbers are terrible. not only are the normal difficulties a president tends to get into whether it is reagan in 1983 or george w. bush in 2003 or 1993 with bill clinton or 1995 with bill clinton, these are numbers that go to the heart of people's ability to see president biden as the president. two thirds of the american people think he lacks the stamina and mental acuity to be perfective in the oval office and recorders of americans the keys do. all to be president including 69% of democrats and those numbers are not going to get better, they are going to get worse. paul: one of the complications for republicans is some of the challengers to donald trump want to make the argument that donald trump is a loser, not electable. these polls show trump is beating biden by less than some of the others in these polls but that removes or makes it harder to make that argument that trump can't win. >> the electability argument is not enough against donald trump but it is clear the republicans would be advantaged if they had somebody new. one pole where trump was ahead by two, desantis was up by four. biden, nikki haley, 8 and a generic republican up by 16. there is a fundamental problem president biden has. donald trump and president biden may be two sides of the same coin. they may be the only person to be nominated by their party who could lose to the other guy. it is clear whichever party figures out they put a fresh face in the contest they have a leg up in the election, we will see if anybody is smart enough to pick up on. paul: nikki haley is gaining in the polls, clear second in new hampshire and south carolina, and tied in one paul with desantis for second to trump in iowa. what her chances of kind of becoming the clear alternative to trump, and does she have to knock out desantis in iowa? >> he doesn't have to knock out desantis, she needs to be a strong second in iowa. it's a disk different description of the challenger. let's look at scenarios from iowa. the first one is trump wins, 50% of the vote. it is problematic from then on. he is pulling it in the i will poll at 43 out of 43, 29 of the 43 say my mind is made up for trump and 14 say i am for trump but open to voting for somebody else. more likely as trump comes in first but under, with a strong second, if somebody comes out of the pack and emerges as a strong second as gary hart did in 1984 on the democratic side then we have a horse race. i think that is the most likely outcome. we could have trump first but way under 50 and two strong second place finishers, desantis and haley doing well, 20s each, trump had of them but in the high 30s. this i don't think happens if he loses iowa out right but it is problematic for the former president if he doesn't have a win in iowa that has him above 50% because he's going around the country saying in his e-mails and speeches and public pronouncements, i am way ahead by 60 points, no, you're in the high 50s in national polls but that's not where he is in iowa or new hampshire. he's raising expectations rather than lowering them. paul: desantis and is invested a lot in iowa. if haley beats him in iowa doesn't he have to consider that he should maybe drop out, because he's not doing that well in iowa or south carolina. >> new hampshire and south carolina. absolutely right. iowa is do or die, he's putting a lot of effort there. he has governor kim reynolds, he won the support of the leader of the evangelical community and if he comes in third in iowa, it's problematic, doesn't get better for him in the next context. paul: is there pafford chris christie? >> he' s not playing in iowa. he's playing in new hampshire where he is running third. the message i'm against trump helped him in new hampshire because new hampshire allows independents to vote in the republican primary and they will use the opportunity to express their displeasure with the former president. it is a longshot and it will be tough. he has been out articulate the bait are doing well in new hampshire but there are two problems. he's not anywhere in iowa. doesn't necessarily mean anything when it comes to new hampshire. john mccain, i remember painfully him winning in new hampshire by 19 points. that could happen for chris. it becomes problematic. second of all, something has to happen to blunt nikki haley in new hampshire. it can't be chris. he blunted marco rubio but it would be problematic for him if he tries in new hampshire. has to be desantis or trump who takes down haley. paul: when we come back, ahead of his anticipated debate, florida governor ron desantis on fox, critics accusing gavin newsom running a shadow presidential campaign against president biden. what the california governor is up to next. unlike some others, it supports 7 brain health indicators, including mental alertness from one serving. to help keep me sharp. try new neuriva ultra. think bigger. 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i mean, he's his poll numbers aren't aren't fabulous. no and in fact, if you look at one of the latest polls, it shows the where biden runs against the newsom in a primary. biden actually leads about 52% to 20. newsom has a lot of liabilities out in california in which voters hold him responsible for the high energy costs. gas prices are about $2 higher than they are in florida. electricity prices are about twice as high. you have unemployment, which has actually been increasing in california despite being pretty strong nationwide. and unemployment is 4.8. california florida, 2.8. again, the homeless ness, it's out of control. crime has been rising again. that's another contrast to the little imagine ron desantis will try to make during the debate. he has a pretty bad record and to be honest, some of the california's problems precede him, but he is definitely not helped fix them. kim let's talk about that desantis newsom showdown in alicia just laid out the potential attack lines for ron desantis against the california record. but what are the risks for desantis? because i mean, i thought at this stage desantis has to do something to change the dynamics in the presidential race. and why not take on gavin newsom if he does? well he maybe get a boost, but what what are the risks for desantis? yeah, i mean, the upsides are incredibly obvious. he's been on a fairly crowded debate stage within the gop primary this is going to be a one on one in front of an audience of people who want to listen to this. and he's got the better of the issues. the risk here, though, is that he stumbles himself. the risk is that gavin newsom, who, by the way, we might not like his policies, he's pretty good up on a stage. he can certainly he's got a bit of a silver tongue. he could embarrass desantis. he could also, you know, highlight some of the things that potentially are causing desantis more problems in his own primary situation. so, i mean, i think the biggest issue for him is this would be an unforced error, meaning it's not something he has to do to engage in the primary. but if he if he handles it well, it could give him a boost. but, dan, just let me get back to your point about biden. i guess my question is, with the poll numbers so bad with his with his age and so on, why would he feel so compelled to run for a second term? well i think he feels because he's spent his entire career trying to make it to the presidency and he's got it. and it's the golden ring. and it's hard for him to give it up. but there are so many people around him that were telling him that he should could rest on the laurels of what he has achieved. and what is going on in the world, and that if he goes forward and is defeated by donald trump, that will remain his legacy. and it is up to somebody around joe biden close to him to try to make that clear to him before it's too late to turn back. yeah, he can join hillary clinton as the candidate who lost to donald trump. all right. when we come back, as anti-israel protests continue on campuses across the country, some are calling for greater federal regulation of america's colleges and universities. so greater federal regulation of america's colleges and universities. is that the answer? we will ask our panel next. sleep more deeply. and wake up rejuvenated. purple mattresses exclusive gel flex grid draws away heat. relives pressure and instantly adapts. sleep better live purple. right now save up to $900 dollars off mattress sets during purple's black friday sale. visit purple.com or a store near you today. this is your season to smile -- to raise a toast and gather together, to wrap up the fun and round up the gang. .. with an epic anniversary savings event. right now, new patients without insurance get a free full exam and x-rays. plus, everyone can get 20% off their treatment plan. but hurry, because while the season won't last, the memories you make together will. aspen dental. book today. about two years ago, i realized that jade was overweight. i wish i would have introduced the fresh food a lot sooner. after farmer's dog, she's a much healthier weight. she's a lot more active. and she's able to join us on our adventures. get started at betterforthem.com - [speaker] at first, just leaving the house was hard. - [speaker] but wounded warrior project helps you realize it's possible to get out there - [speaker] to feel sense of camaraderie again. - [speaker] to find the tools to live life better. - [narrator] through generous community support, we've connected warriors and their families with no cost physical and mental health services, legislative advocacy, career assistance, and life skill training for 20 years, and we are just getting started. c'mon, we're right there. c'mon baby. it's the only we need. go, go, go, go! ah! touchdown baby! -touchdown! are your neighbors watching the same game? yeah, my 5g home internet delays the game a bit. but you get used to it. try these. they're noise cancelling earmuffs. i stole them from an airport. it's always something with you, man. great! solid! -greek salad? exactly! don't delay the game with verizon or t-mobile 5g home internet. catch it on the xfinity 10g network. face consequences. the department of education is investigating cornell, university of pennsylvania after receiving complaints about incidents of anti-semitism and in some cases islamphobia. group of republican lawmakers led by senator tim scott has introduced legislation that would rescind federal money for colleges that authorize or facilitate events that promote anti-semitic activities on campus. we are back with our panel. this is in many ways, liberals mugged by reality. stunned to see these protests on campus. it's fine if they are demonstrating against donald trump, suddenly, israel, defending hamas, what do you make of the idea of rescinding federal money? >> i would not be against rescinding federal money. money is one of the only things these universities understand. they are under pressure from big donors from i leave -- ivy league schools saying they will withhold their donations and that is what a college president does, raise money. that would have any effect. i would like to add as well that these liberals have been mugged by reality but they have been mugged pretty hard. there's an opportunity here to try to begin to turn around the problem of free speech on campuses. this goes back ten years. wasn't just anti-semitism. and schools across the country. now there's a chance to put pressure on to try to get something resembling real free-speech on these campuses. that means entertaining a range of ideological opinions, hiring more professors who simply do not come from the far left but represent the center or even conservative opinion. there's a chance and we should keep the pressure on. paul: you follow security and exchange commission, former chairman arthur levin came out on our pages and said we see an sec like agency to regulate colleges and universities and how they are governed. what do you make of that idea? >> it's a horrible idea. he was fcc chairman at the time, fraud scandals in congress, ended up passing sarbanes-oxley act which imposed new regulations on public companies and had an intended consequences including deterring companies from going public. i don't think that is what we want for a special department for bureaucracy to oversee colleges. we have a department of education which can handle civil rights investigations if there is anti-semitism on campus. however, i would support some kind of legislation that would hold colleges accountable for student loans that are prepaid. that the pressing problem and the federal government does have something at stake in that. paul: i think we need a new agency but that means probably you are going to have to put pressure from trustees who are supposed to be running institutions on college presidents and faculties to tolerate freedom of speech and is that -- donors put pressure. would that be your solution? >> absolutely. i would 20 it with something to do with government. all these people calling for greater federal role. we need to get the federal government out of these universities, not just defunding certain projects but get them out of student loans, get them out of giving money to higher education because it is essentially let's these universities and colleges have insulation against the kind of pressure that you are talking about. they are dependent on donors. put them in a situation way -- they have to compete without the backstop of federal dollars and taxpayer funds and make sure they are more receptive to those donors and we definitely need to be pushing when they were alumni, donors, to work with these universities and particularly hires and future employers of the students to start exerting some pressure on places to become foundations where kids are actually taught something and learn something rather than these\facilities they are now. paul: michael bloomberg suggested schools, the chicago view that the school sponsor critics and debate that should not be a participant itself in those debates. what do you think? >> that's a good idea. most of the left wing ideas wafting through the universities if they would have a more neutral role on these campuses that would go a long way towards restoring some sort of balance in the university systems. paul: joe manchin fuels a presidential run and anxiety among democrats as growing number of americans say they are open to 1/3 party. we talk to no labels founding chairman julie urman after the break. you may think your eyes will be bulging forever. like a never-ending curse that can't be broken. but even if you've been told it's too late, treating your thyroid eye disease may still be possible. and a new day is within sight. learn how you could give your eyes a fresh start at stilltreatted.com. paul: facing a likely choice between donald trump or joe biden in the 24 president teresa growing number of americans are open to an alternative. 63% of adults in gallup's governance poll say they agree with the statement republican and democratic parties do such a poor job representing the american people that 1/3 major parties needed. that is up 7 percentage points from last year and the highest since gallup first asked the question two decades ago. let's ask joe lieberman, founding chairman of the third-party group know labels. great to see you. thanks for coming in again. let me first ask you about those poll numbers for the president. what do. how worried should your fellow democrats be ? well they should be worried. and, of course, we've had prominent democrats like david axelrod saying exactly that. actually urging the president not to run again. i must say, from the no labels perspective, because from the beginning when from the know labels perspective, from the beginning when we talked about running a bipartisan unity ticket, democrats, particularly on the left, said we were some sort of front group for donald trump. the aim of this was to take votes from biden and elect trump. right now if you look at the polling get, it's not a bipartisan unity ticket that will reelect trump. it is president biden himself because donald trump is leading nationally and significantly leading in five of the six major swing states which were recently polled. we are only going to do this if we think we have a reasonable chance to win. we are confident from everything we see now that we do and that we are not going to be spoilers. it is a unique moment in american history. paul: you said that you are not going to be spoilers but what signals are you going to look for? what evidence are you going to look for? you know the history of third parties. six months or nine months before the election if the public is in a sour mood but clos